04x03 - Resisting Temptation

[bunniefuu]

Previously on "I am jazz"...

Oh, my god. Your hair.

Skylar is one of my transgender friends

Who already got the bottom surgery.

So, do you feel different at all?

I feel complete now.

Jeanette: oh, my god.

Is this food that's been eaten just, like, garbage?

Jeanette: I knew that jazz had been doing some bad eating here and there,

But I had no idea she was eating as much as she was.

If we're going to get a hospital to say,

"We're going to allow a surgery at age ,"

You're going to have to lose pounds.

Greg: don't you think it's fixable?

I'll try, but it's so hard for me 'cause I just love food,

And, i, like, I love to binge eat. I love it.

Jazz, you can't have the procedure

If you don't do that.

♪♪

Jazz: years ago, I was assigned male at birth,

But inside, I always knew I was a girl.

I have a girl brain and a boy body.

Being transgender hasn't been easy.

We really are walking a tightrope.

-I'm a tough case. -You're a tough case.

Come on, jazz!whoo!

Go for it, girl!

But it's made me who I am.

I am jazz.

--Captions by vitac-- www.vitac.com

Captions paid for by discovery communications

♪♪

Greg: home, sweet home.

Well, that was quite a trip.

[ Both chuckle ]

Yes. That was quite a trip.

It was a doozy, and we have a lot to think about.

I got your suitcase, jeanette.

There they are.

-Hello. -We're back.

Chilling, huh? -Welcome home.

Aw, we were just planning a party for tomorrow.

We didn't know you were coming back today.

I want to be comfy with you guys.

It's nice to be back home from visiting san francisco.

However, we had a very intense consultation

With dr. Marci bowers.

-So how -- how was san fr-- -how -- how was san fran --

Jeanette: oh, I love when you guys do that.

We just talked at the same time.

You said, "how was san francisco?" Together.

How was san francisco?

Basically, we thought the next thing we were going to do

Was have the procedure done, right?

But now she had a bunch of different ideas

That she presented to us.

Jazz: last time, when I met with her,

She said that it was just going to be the skin graft,

But now she thinks it's going to be these other options,

But basically, she just wants to get the most skin possible

In order to get this procedure done the best way possible.

Do you want me to go through all the ideas?

Griffen: keep it pg, like, .

No matter what, I always want to be there to support jazz,

But it's pretty odd

To be talking to our little sister all the time

About penises and vaginas.

The first option was to use a testosterone cream

Where I would put it on my genitals,

And hopefully, that would stimulate

Some sort of growth in that area.

Well, I didn't know that existed.

If you get it, you better hide it from griffen.

I didn't say anything about using that.

Where do you need to use it? Down below?

-Oh. Okay. -I didn't say anything. Hey.

I am more than satisfied with, uh, what I got.

Jazz: all right, option two

Is this new, up-and-coming procedure.

Basically, you take the peritoneal lining

From the stomach.

It's slippery, produces mucosa,

Seems to be -- yeah. -It's a great option.

-That seems to be a great option. -What's mutosa?

-Mucus. -So it's slippery.

Option three?

Option three, it's called a tissue expander,

And they would stick this little balloon thing

Filled with, like, a saline solution in my scrotum,

And it would cause my skin to stretch,

And I would have to keep it for to months.

If someone put a balloon in my pelvic area,

Start blowing it up, like, I wouldn't be happy.

I would be in a lot of pain, and I wouldn't be able to walk.

I don't think jazz wants to go through that.

But there's something else really big, as well.

I have to lose pounds before I could get the surgery.

-Do you want a vag*na? -Yes.

Of course I want a vag*na.

Hey, at least something's gonna motivate you.

Griffen: we have tried numerous times

To help jazz lose weight in the past.

Let's go. Push yourself.

Down. Up.there we go.

Yeah. You feeling the burn now.

But jazz always seems to gain the weight back.

You do these week or two-week spans where you eat well

And maybe work out a little bit, and you lose some weight,

And then you put it right back on the next week,

And that makes no sense to me.

Listen, don't shut me down before I've even tried.

You guys are, like, kind of putting me down.

I believe in you.

It doesn't feel good when someone tells you

You have to lose weight,

Especially when it's from your brother.

I need to focus on the weight.

That's something personal, and you guys got to help me.

It's not going to be easy, just like the surgery's not going to be easy.

♪♪

I'm about to go for a bike ride. You want to join?

Um, sure.

Good.

Just give me my shoes.

Are these yours? Yeah.

These are kind of ugly, no offense.

Whatever!

Jazz: it's probably been about a year or two

Since I've last rode a bike,

And that just proves

How little physical activity I've been engaging in.

Oh, this is going to be hard.

Holy moly.

Uh...

Let's get this one down first.

I appreciate that sander wants to help me work out.

However, I don't believe he's very prepared

For this bike ride.

That does not have air in it.

[ Air hissing ]

Jazz: sander, it's flat. What are you doing?

Yea, but that will make it a more difficult workout for you.

No!

Saner: I'm taking jazz bike riding

Because I want to try to help motivate her

To burn calories

And find something that maybe she enjoys doing.

You suck at bike-riding, though.

Yeah. I can't ride a bike in a straight direction,

But if it's to help jazz, I'll do it.

Is there a way to fix these handlebars?

Because I feel like they're messed up.

Sander, they're turned the wrong way.

Let go. Let go.

Oh, my god.

Oh, my god. You fool.

Oh, that makes sense why I couldn't reach the handlebars.

[ Laughs ]

I knew he was a ditz, end of story.

I knew he was a ditz.

Look. Whoo!

[ Gears clicking ]

Oh, you think you're faster than me, huh?

If you're really trying to make the best of your workout,

You go slow, then fast, slow, then fast,

So push yourself a little, and then slow down.

Make yourself tired, then slow back down.

That's fun for you, not me.

No. It's how you lose weight.

You should ride a bike every day,

Especially because if you do that tissue expander,

I don't think you're going to be able to ride a bike for a while.

That's a major problem because I don't know

If I'm going to be able to work out like this.

I feel like I'm going to be in bed all day,

And that's going to cause me

To get lazy and potentially depressed.

Like, yes, it will make it harder,

But, like, everyone has to overcome adversity.

Whenever something bad happens in a game,

You have to come back and try to score back.

It's the same thing.

It's a little bit different

Because that's, like, competition.

It's a little different, but it's --

Everything should be a competition.

Are you kidding?

That's not how everyone's mind works, sander.

Jazz: sander advises that I approach my weight issue

Like a competition,

But that's not what this is about.

This is about me trying to overcome my willpower issues,

And I still need help with that.

Jazz: you're a good big brother, but I love griffen more.

That's false. I know you like me more.

[ Laughs ]

♪♪

[ Crickets chirping ]

[ Knock on door ]jazz: come in!

-Hey. -Hello.

Tonight, jay and noelle are coming to hang out.

What are you doing?

I'm getting ingredients for the smoothie.

Usually, when I have friends over,

We'll order in some crappy food

Or we find some yummy things in the pantry.

However, now that I have to be healthy,

It's back to smoothies and vegetables

And everything disgusting.

Ugh! I'm going to die.

Can't you guys tell I'm a ratchet smoothie maker?

Jayleen: yep.

Noelle: why are you eating so healthy anyways?

Well, you guys know how I went to san francisco

To visit my surgeon, dr. Marci bowers?

-Yeah. -How'd that go?

Um, it went okay.

One of the biggest things we talked about

Is that my bmi might be too high

To get the procedure done, and --

That's a thing that can happen?

It's a thing, I guess, and I have to lose pounds

Before I'm, like, a candidate with the guidelines.

So...that's crazy.

And I'm taking it really seriously, as you can see.

Yeah. Thus, the smoothies.

Hearing that jazz's bmi is too high

Is a little surprising to me,

But it's also a little scary

Because that adds a whole new sense of pressure

To an already difficult equation.

I feel like I'm really committed this time

And that I'm going to lose the weight.

My only worry is that I know how weak my willpower is.

I feel like, to help my eating problem,

I know that some people go to, like, a hypnotist.

Have you guys heard of that or no?

What?

I've heard of positive experiences with other people

When it comes to smoking and letting go of cigarettes

And also dieting,

So the idea to go to a hypnotist is very, very interesting.

What do they do? Like, "don't eat french fries"?

"Don't eat cheeseburgers"?

They're like, "no more french fries for you."

[ Laughter ]

Like, I know it's worked for other people,

Like, with all different types of habits.

Try it at least because there's not going to be a downside.

It's not like they're going to hypnotize you,

And you're going to exclusively eat bacon,

Like, for every meal every day.

Like, that's not going to happen.

I feel like I need some sort of miracle right now,

And hypnotherapy seems to be, like, some mysterious miracle.

Body mass index. In order words, she's too fat.

I really need to fix this problem

Because it's a big problem.

Your subconscious mind is instructing you to eat slower.

♪♪

Greg: I have to make an announcement.

I've figured out where we're going on our family vacation.

♪♪

Grand canyon!

Wait. Really?yeah.

Our family loves to travel.

The kids are getting older.

The trips are going to be far and few between,

And so we try to make the most of this opportunity

To spend time together as a family.

Did mom plan it? Did you plan it?

I did a little research.

Me and mom had talked about it quietly.

We chose the grand canyon

Because the brady bunch went there,

And it just seems like an awfully cool place to go.

But cindy got lost, so that was a bad idea.

"Cindy!"

[ Both laugh ]

Are we staying in, like, some weird cabin...

Greg: tents....or are we gonna stay

In a resort?

Tent? I'm not staying in a tent.

Oh. Okay.

Then maybe I'll have to rethink that part of the trip.

[ Laughs ]

-Can we get an rv? -Yeah.

Jazz: but, anyway, do you guys want to hear the good news?

I've been eating so clean, not cheating at all,

And I've been working out every single day, so...

-What'd you have for dinner? -I had a salad.

-What'd you have for lunch? -A salad.

No. I had a salad with chicken and vegetables.

My biggest fear is that I'll have a temptation,

And then I'll see the food, and then I'll break the diet,

And then I'll go down that rabbit hole of fatness again.

I was thinking that maybe, like,

I could visit a hypnotist or something

Because I know they work to help you get over those addictions.

You don't go to a hypnotist.

You go to a hypnotherapist.

There's a difference.

Jeanette: I know that jazz hates traditional therapy,

So I'm happy to hear that she wants to try hypnotherapy.

If she could have a little extra push behind her,

A little wind beneath her wings, so to speak,

I think it could be effective.

We have one more thing to discuss.

We got a call from this producer from the radio,

And they have a show that they want us to go on,

And they're going to bring on a scientist

That has a belief that it's best

Not to go on hormones until after puberty

Because they think that percent of the kids

Are going to change their mind.

Recently, jazz and I have been invited to be on a panel

As part of a podcast to debate with a scientist

Who doesn't believe in allowing kids to go on hormones

And thinks that they'll grow out of it come puberty.

Of course, I know that it's life-saving,

And these kids couldn't do without it,

But there's people out there that don't believe in it.

If this scientist is spewing inaccurate information,

Maybe we need to disprove her to show her view

And that she's wrong.

Jazz: I don't know how I feel about doing this podcast.

I know that by doing this, I'm giving her a platform

To promote her research with the world,

And proving people wrong is easier said than done.

How do I debunk it?

What do I say, "oh, that's not right"?

You tell them exactly how it is.

You have to find facts through research, and I just --

I feel like I'm not the most qualified.

Greg: these type of media requests are tough.

I just have never been big on jazz debating

Or having to argue in an adversarial setting,

But I do think that jazz needs

To keep retelling her story in one way or another,

And I think that parents need to listen to their kids.

The main thing is, jazz, if you're not comfortable doing it,

Then you shouldn't do it.

I am someone who has taken the hormone blockers,

And it's changed my life.

This research is invalidating who I am as a person,

And it hurts.

Mm. All right.

Well, just think about it,

And then we'll make a decision another time.

♪♪

Greg: you ready to bowl with your parents?

I'm ready to see my parents and watch them bowl

Because they are bowlers.

[ Pins clatter ]

Right, left, right.

Sure.

Honey, I think you got to start further back a little.

I'm afraid of going over the foul time.

- /? -Yeah. Thank you.

Jeanette: my parents are exceptional bowlers.

She keeps telling me

They had a bowling ball with their names on it,

The shirts and everything.

Oh, hi, hon.

Jeanette: in my mind growing up,

They were, like, the greatest bowlers.

We shall see.

Look at her go. She has skills.

-You got a spare. -Yay!

Jacky: oh, she really tosses.

I hit one. No. I got a gutter.

I was on a bowling league when I was .

I got a purple bowling ball,

And we were called the bowling beauties,

And we were damn ugly.

[ Laughs ]

So, jeanette, did you tell your parents

About our trip to california?

Not really. Just glazed over it on the phone.

Well, remember how everything was left off?

Nice, little bow, marci will do a little skin graft.

-Right. -No.

-So? -Erased. Out with that plan.

Gone.

Jack: it's no surprise to me

That jazz cannot have a simple vaginoplasty.

She doesn't have the material to work with,

And they have to get it from somewhere.

She gave us all these options.

Do you have any idea of what the complication rate would be,

Doing procedure "a" versus procedure "b"?

Greg: what if there hasn't been a complication rate

For suppressed youth?

That means they haven't done enough of them.

Jack: as a physician and a grandfather,

I don't know where to draw the line,

But I want them to have enough cases

Whereby they've had enough complications

To know how to get out of trouble.

She is pioneering again, and I feel very badly.

The first thing she actually talked about was jazz's bmi

Because, with her current bmi, they would not even proceed.

Jack: do you know what a bmi is, honey?

I do know what a -- basal metabolism --

-Basil? -No, no, no.

It's body mass index.body mass. Sorry.

In other words, she's too fat.

♪♪

Sometimes, my dad is a little direct.

He doesn't b*at around the bush.

She looks beautiful, but she's too fat.

Jazz is gaining weight.

She may be unhappy

And is using food sort of as a tranquilizer.

We're doing no surgery till jazz loses weight.

Jacky: jazz's surgery is now hinging on a weight loss,

But I'm not convinced it's going to happen.

I think jazz is addicted to food.

♪♪

♪♪

Jeanette: I have known dr. Volker for a really long time,

And I'm always with jazz whenever I speak to her...

Knock, knock. -Hi.

-Hello. Hello. Hello. -Oh, my gosh.

I'm so glad you're here.

I'm so happy to be here.

... But sometimes, you know, I feel like there's things

I need to say to her without jazz in the room,

So this way, I can be unfiltered

And just talk about concerns that I have

From a mom's perspective.

I'd really like to hear from you as a mom, just by yourself,

And see the things that are going on in your heart.

So much is going on.

I have known jazz and family since jazz was years old,

And I'm delighted to really get to talk with mom

Because, so many times, their voices aren't heard

Because they're advocating for their child

And putting their own feelings on hold.

I know you don't see jazz on a regular basis anymore,

But, you know, we're at that point

Where the surgery is down the road.

You know, you've been with her since the very beginning,

And I know it's really important to have the two letters.

Like, what do you need from jazz and myself to get that letter?

Jeanette: to have the surgery,

You have to go to therapy to get the letters,

And marilyn has been treating jazz

Since the beginning of time,

So she's our go-to for that first letter.

When you have this surgery,

There are things that are required,

And you may not like some of them,

And I would want to see that she is on that process.

You know, actually, there's been an obstacle

Because jazz's weight has really ballooned...

Oh.

...and now she has to lose pounds

Before her bottom surgery.

But she started binge eating.

It's, like, I knew she was really out of control,

But I didn't know how out of control.

How is that affecting you as mom?

It breaks my heart because I'm so fearful

That I'm going to make her feel bad about herself

Because I know she feels bad about herself,

But, you know, when I see her,

Her clothes aren't fitting, and I point it out.

I'm like, "oh, maybe I shouldn't have said that,"

But I want her to see the damage that she's doing to herself.

I've seen this with a lot

Of trans teenagers and adults...

Mm-hmm.

...when they get to that pivotal point for surgery...

Yeah.

...and there is this almost an unconsciously,

"Can I set something up where somebody is going to say,

'Not quite yet'"?

Dr. Marilyn: sabotaging big marker events like having a vaginoplasty

Is very common.

"I want this surgery,

But now I got to face all these things,"

So sometimes sabotaging behavior means,

"It buys me time.

I don't have to do this right this minute.

Let me escape," and perhaps the escape is in the eating.

Before the letter, I would like to see her

To go through what's happening in life.

Knowing jazz from where she was when she was

Does not mean to me that she is physically, emotionally,

And realistically ready for a surgery,

So I am not ready

To write the letter of recommendation for surgery.

What do you think of hypnotherapy to help the eating?

I know a lot of people recommend it.

There would have to be a behavioral strategy.

It's not something magic.

It isn't.

Woman: right now, we have no evidence

That people are, in fact, born this way.

Jazz: any time you confront someone with a hateful perspective,

It is just a nervous situation.

♪♪

[ Ringing ]

Hello.

Hey. What's up?

Nothing.

I'm sweating because it's really hot in here.

Oh. You look fine.

Jazz: I have a lot going on in my life right now.

When it comes to a lot of my transgender issues,

Skylar is one of my go-to friends.

She can really relate to me when it comes to the surgery.

I wanted to tell you that I visited

Dr. Marci bowers in san francisco, my surgeon,

And it was insane.

She gave me different options,

But she said I might have to do all the options.

When I went in for my consultation,

My surgeon was marking me up,

And he, like, marked areas for skin grafts,

But, like, I woke up from surgery,

And I didn't end up needing them.

So, that's really interesting that you had enough tissue.

Yeah. So there's actually

Some other interesting news that I wanted to tell you about

Because I don't even know how I feel about it at this moment.

Basically, there's this podcast,

And there's going to be a scientist

Who believes that using the hormone blockers is not okay,

That transgender people should go through puberty

Because percent of them change their minds anyway.

I think she needs fact-checking.

I know, but I don't know if I'm the right person

To be debating with someone about this.

I think you should do it because you were that child

That wasn't on hormone blockers

Or hormones or anything at one point.

I'm a living example of a transgender child

Who really was transgender and didn't change her mind.

Talking with you, it really just confirms

That what the scientist is saying is clearly wrong,

And I feel like someone needs to step up

And, you know, talk to her.

In order for me to be fully confident

To participate in this panel,

I need to figure out ways

That I could combat the scientist

To shut her down.

All right. Thank you for being a listening ear

And letting me talk to you.

Of course. Anytime.

All right. Peace out.

♪ Na, na, na ♪

♪ Na-na, na, na-na-na, na, na ♪

♪ Na, na, na ♪

♪ Na-na, na, na-na-na, na ♪

♪♪

-Hello. -Hi.

How are you? -I'm jazz.

Hi, jazz. It's a pleasure to meet you.

I'm jeanette.hi, jeanette.

Thanks for having us.nice to meet you.

Today, I am going to visit a hypnotherapist,

And I'm actually very excited.

Why don't you have a seat, jazz?

You get the big, comfortable chair over there.

-Oh, okay. -You get the throne.

Jazz: my eating issues are beyond my control.

I feel like this therapist, if she hypnotizes me,

Maybe she'll convince me

That broccoli tastes like french fries

And french fries taste like broccoli,

And then my mind will be, like, all magical,

And I'll lose weight.

Jazz, what would you like to gain out of this process?

What's your goals?

To, you know, not be so tempted by food.

Okay.

I want to have control over it.

My name is keli raymond.

I'm a certified clinical hypnotherapist.

We all struggle with common issues,

And in hypnotherapy, it's all emotional work,

And I love working with young adults

Because there's so much less to undo than working with adults.

Keli: this is going to be a process

Of peeling back the layers of the onion

To discover and uncover what's driving the bingeing,

So this is a good time for us to begin our dialogue.

Bye, mom.

So long, farewell.

Jazz: when I'm being forced into therapy,

I feel less inclined to be open or to share how I'm feeling.

Because hypnotherapy was my choice,

I just feel better about doing this

Than I have in previous therapy sessions.

Explain to me the nature of your eating

And just sort of give me an idea on what that looks like.

So when I do it, sometimes I don't eat during the day...

Mm-hmm. ...and then I wait

Till I binge at night.

My grandma calls it "starve and stuff."

Yeah. It's a common pattern.

Mm-hmm.

Can you sort of think to when it is

That you're inclined to binge?

What's going on with you at the time?

Stress. Definitely.

Like, I kind of feel, like, very weak in that moment.

Mm-hmm. Let me ask you a question.

Do you have a hard time accessing your emotions

As a general rule?

Um, you know, I always say I don't.

I always say I'm very expressive,

But I honestly feel like I'm not.

I feel like I have no idea.

Like, my mind is just so, like, all over the place,

And I don't know what the truth really is.

Well, you know, you're .

You're not supposed to have it all sorted out yet.

You have a lot of expectations for yourself, don't you?

I guess so. Yeah.

Like, I feel like I have a lot of potential...

Mm-hmm.

...and I'm not living up to it when I eat.

Sorry. I always cry.

No. It always happens.

This is a wonderful place

To allow yourself to feel emotions.

I want you to give yourself permission in this space

To know that it's safe to feel it

And it's healing to feel it, so don't try and hold that down.

We're going to get you on the other side of this.

Jazz: I feel comfortable with keli, expressing my feelings.

It's something new for me,

So I'm eager to actually start the hypnosis part.

I really need to fix this problem

Because it's a big problem.

Just take a deep, cleansing breath in,

And hold it briefly,

And as you slowly exhale, just think, "relax."

Perfect.

So now, jazz, as you have settled in

To your peaceful sanctuary,

As you look down,

You notice that there are bags and bags

That are there at your feet.

These bags represent early childhood events

That factor into your bingeing.

It's time now to release them.

As I'm listening to keli's voice,

I'm just letting go.

I just feel very relaxed and sleepy,

Like you're in another world.

This is a place of healing.

This is a place of transformation.

Your body, your subconscious mind

Is instructing you to eat slower

With each and every bag that you release.

So now, in a moment, it's time to come back,

Bringing back with you all of these positive qualities.

♪♪

Hello. Welcome back.

How do you feel?

Relaxed.

Jazz: after hypnosis, I feel

Like I have a sense of mental clarity.

As I continue to become hypnotized,

It'll be easier and easier?

Yes.

You will go deeper and faster each and every subsequent time.

I feel like I have a new motivation to lose weight.

-Hello. -Hello. She did wonderfully.

This is a process, and there's no reason

That she can't get to the other side of this.

She absolutely can.

I'm hoping that this is finally something that's going to work,

But there's no way of knowing until I see the results.

Yeah. Let me give you a hug.

You're a delight. I love hugs.

I was hoping you'd say that.

Woman: we've all been concerned about people changing their minds.

Jazz: this research is negatively affecting

The lives of so many people.

Had I brought little jazz to you,

What would you have told me as a parent?

If we did anything, it would be gentle discouragement.

♪♪

Hey. Hey.

What's up?

That's probably too loud for a library.

I know. I'm too loud to be here.

Jazz: when it comes to approaching this radio show,

I need to look at the research,

Figure out the fallacies within it before I do it.

I just feel like it's important for me

To develop some sort of counterclaims

Before I go into this.

Noelle is a great person to help prepare me

Because she is in debate class,

And she loves proving people wrong,

And I feel like she could really prepare me

To combat this scientist.

Her study says that she collected

A sample of adolescents

Who were referred for gender dysphoria in childhood.

That's a pretty small sample size.

She believes that, given the opportunity

To go through puberty a little bit,

That most of us would revert back.

But they're controversial findings.

She's basically saying that

The only way you can know if someone's trans

Is if they face extreme pain during puberty.

Mm-hmm.

It's akin to saying the only way you can know

If your child can swim is by drowning them.

This research sounds familiar just because when I was younger,

I was looking up what it meant to be trans.

I wanted to know that I wasn't alone,

And I stumbled across a lot of bigoted ideologies.

Nobody needs to go through puberty to see if they're trans.

I knew I wanted to be a girl

As soon as I could differentiate between genders.

So only . Percent of the participants

Were judged to have persistent gender dysphoria.

"However, this calculation included

Participants who could not be trace contacted at follow-up

But were assumed to be desisters."

That's literally just an assumption.

She put that in her findings?

Mm-hmm.

Jazz: this scientist uses the terms "persister" and "desister."

Persister is someone who chooses

To follow through with their transition,

And a desister is someone who reverts

Back to their biological gender.

I think any research where you're making assumptions

And calculating that into your conclusion

Is not very reliable.

Does it make you want to just confront her a little bit?

Little, little, little bit.

Little bit.

Noelle: even though it may come off as controversial,

I do think it's very necessary and good

That we are having this conversation

So that people can see that there is room for dissension,

Even though they might be wrong factually.

I'm really starting to feel like this is something important

And something I have to do

To put this scientist in her place

Because if she's like, "no.

You're not actually yourself

'Cause you are a desister,"

Honey, we ain't desisters.

We're sisters. [ Laughs ]

[ Laughs ]

Okay. That was corny.

♪♪

Jeanette: hello.

-I got the door. -Thank you, son.

Jazz: I usually love going out to dinner.

However, I am dieting now.

I have to stay on track when it comes to losing weight.

How we doing, ladies and gentlemen?

Are we prepared for any appetizers

Or anything we'd like to get started with?

Ooh, can we get a spinach dip?

-Spinach dip? Absolutely. -No.

-And then... -Do not. No. No. No. No.

...i'm going to get a french onion soup.

French onion. Yes, sir.

Thank you.

Aren't you guys supposed to be helping me?

♪♪

Can I get the ribs, please?

Sander: I think it's going to be very hard for jazz

To resist the temptations.

Let's just say jazz made a big mistake

Sitting next to me at this meal.

Big mistake.

I'm going to get the beer muenster cheese soup

Instead of the french onion.

-Okay. -What?

-The beer muenster cheese. -Are you kidding me?

The beer cheese soup is my favorite thing

'Cause it comes in a bread bowl.

You'll show willpower. You can look at it.

You don't have to eat it.

What the...?

Jazz, you'll get a healthy dinner.

Don't worry. You'll be fine.

Jazz: I don't know if they're just that hungry

And really want to eat that unhealthy

Or if they're specifically trying to tempt me,

So I hope that hypnotherapy actually works.

So how long have you been trying to, like, try?

'Cause I know last time I saw you, you were like,

"I don't care. I don't care. I don't care.

I don't care. I don't care."

[ Laughter ]

-It's true. -That was perfect.

Jazz: obviously, it's been a problem for a while

That I've been binge eating,

But really, it was when I visited dr. Marci bowers

That kind of kicked it into me.

Do you think the hypnosis helped at all?

Is it working?

-Um... -Guess we'll find out now.

Greg: oh, that must be sander's.

-What? -Thank you.

-Ooh, shrimp. -Oh, that looks good.

Ari: this is huge. This is so big.

Greg: thank you.

Jazz: it's definitely very difficult

To resist this food,

Especially this big bread bowl filled with beer cheese soup.

Oh, my god. That is my life right there.

Ari: holy moly.

Honestly...

Just focus on your food.

I think jazz does have a lot of power to resist temptations.

I just think it's whether she wants to or not.

Usually, she dives in and starts eating

And trying to get the most food in her mouth,

But it was really nice to see her

Just kind of enjoy her lettuce [chuckling] or whatever.

-So much food. -You going to finish all that?

Jazz: well, I'm motivated to stay on task,

And I'm not going to let this beer cheese soup

Or this spinach and artichoke dip

Or this pizza or this ribs

Or anything that's on the table tempt me.

All right. Good. I don't need that anymore.

♪♪

Jeanette: do you feel like we could be in over our head?

I don't know. Are you nervous?

Yeah.

Jazz: my mom and I are driving to the podcast today,

And I'm honestly a little bit nervous.

This research is negatively affecting

The lives of so many people,

And I have to ensure that I get my viewpoint across

And prove this research wrong.

It's just always hard when we put ourselves

In that line of fire

Where it's going to be with someone

Who doesn't necessarily agree with what we have to say.

We need to win this debate.

Yeah. For real.

♪♪

-You ready? -Well, here we go.

I am definitely feeling a little tense.

Hi. We're ready for you.

Anytime you confront someone

With a differing viewpoint or a hateful perspective,

It is just a nervous situation.

Man: stand by. Here we go.

♪♪

Paul: good afternoon, everybody, and welcome to another episode

Of "the qiew."

We have an awesome podcast today.

This panel discussion is going to cause

A little bit of ruffles,

A little bit of controversy, but that's what we like.

Jennifer mcclain. Hey, jennifer.

Introduce what our discussion topic is today.

Is gender dysphoria a passing phase,

And should children be allowed to begin transitioning

Before they reach puberty?

And to discuss this, we've got a great panel assembled

Including dr. Susan bradley from toronto, canada,

Who has worked with the clarke institute.

Paul: dr. Bradley could not travel,

So she will be via telephone today.

Hi, dr. Bradley. How are you?

Dr. Susan: fine. How are you?

I'm doing well. Thank you very much.

Also another panelist, we have zinnia jones,

A researcher from orlando.

Hi.

I'm zinnia jones. I'm a trans woman.

I'm a mom, and I'm a researcher

Of gender dysphoria in children and adolescents.

And jazz jennings along with her mother, jeanette.

-Hey. -Welcome. Welcome. Welcome.

To my right, jodie patterson here from new york city

Who has a transgender son, as well.

Jodie: my third child, penelope, was assigned female at birth,

But penelope, early on,

Started showing signs that something was wrong.

Something was not settled.

Your son is ?

. Yes. .

And where are you in all of this

As far as transitioning?

We have done nothing to suppress puberty

Because the puberty is not an issue yet,

But when I think about ingesting chemicals,

It makes me nervous, and that's just on a mom level.

I just think of them as my gender vitamins, frankly, so...

[ Laughter ]

Yeah.

Jodie: you know, I always have to take a deep sigh

Around medical changes

Because, one, I'm skeptical about medicine.

It's just my nature.

But that being said, my child might want puberty suppressors,

And so I wanted to come today and sit with jazz

And sit with her mom and sit with a doctor

And hear from all the different sides.

So, dr. Bradley, give everybody kind of an overview

Of the research you've done.

A little bit controversial. Tell us about that.

Well, the most significant one

Is the long-term flow of kids seen in the clinic.

These children all had gender dysphoria,

Aged between and or ,

And we followed up to see

Whether or not the gender dysphoria persisted.

Were they still having gender dysphoria?

No. The majority of them,

That is, about percent,

Had lost their desire to transition.

Many of them self-identified as gay or lesbian.

You said a lot of the individuals in your study

Identified as gay or lesbian,

So I'm confused if those people that we title as desisters

Were actually transgender in the first place.

All of the kids who were seen in the clinic

Had a dislike of their birth-assigned gender.

But I'm wondering, did all of them self-identify

As the opposite gender?

Well, when you're talking about kids who are and ,

The identification can be fluctuant.

Some wouldn't identify.

I mean, there's a broad mixture of kids

Who present with gender dysphoria.

It may be the case

That they're not really desisting from anything

Because they weren't transgender in the first place.

None of us can say that.

I think that trans people themselves know.

I think dr. Bradley is really underestimating

The intelligence of young children,

And I feel like, at that younger age,

I had a better sense of self, and I knew my own identity.

Dr. Bradley, how do you feel

About transitioning before puberty?

We've all been uncomfortable about intervention

Because of our concern about people changing their minds.

Right now, we have no evidence that people are, in fact,

Born this way.

You know, the transition is such a huge issue for people.

To assume that because somebody at some age

Makes a statement, "I'm trans,"

That they will continue to feel that way as they mature,

I think, isn't supportive to them because,

For a lot of people, surgery isn't perfect.

You never have a perfect body.

You said when kids make a statement,

And you said statement, singular.

However, most transgender kids make statements over time.

I wish I had a magic wand that could allow me to say

Who is a pure trans person.

We're trying to find out how much of this

Is like some of these things that you get hooked onto

And then you drop and move onto something else.

Dr. Bradley, had I brought little jazz to you

At the age of where she was saying,

"I am a girl. I'm a girl, mommy. Please, please, please,"

What would you have told me as a parent?

If we did anything, it would be gentle discouragement.

I think any trans person can tell you

That society already provides

An ample amount of more-than-gentle discouragement

Towards those who are trans and are out as trans.

It is completely not okay to prevent a transgender child

From doing what makes them happy,

And, you know, this idea of gentle discouragement

Would negatively affect

The lives of so many transgender youth.

Jazz: when you said it's preferable

For transgender people to go through puberty,

I feel like that's comparable to a form of t*rture.

If I had to go through male puberty,

I honestly don't know where I would be.

I'm not sure if I would be alive.

When you start to intervene in a transgender child's life,

What are we intervening for?

Are we trying to prevent this person from making a mistake?

I'm not a doubter in terms of the benefits

Of transitioning for some people.

The problem is which people.

I feel like, as doctors and scientists,

It's not your role to determine those decisions.

We should be finding the persisters,

Giving them the support and love they need,

And allowing them to transition and be happy,

And they know the answer.

And as doctors, you're there to guide them

And help them down that path.

Jeanette: I speak to hundreds of parents all over the world.

Their situations are very similar to jazz's,

And I watch these kids' progress,

And I don't see any of them waking up one day

And being like, "you know what? Changed my mind."

I truly believe that a parent knows their kid

Better than a bunch of statistics

Based on studies that had, like, people in them.

Paul: well, dr. Bradley,

I want to thank you for your time.

Great discussion.

I don't think we've come to a conclusion [laughs]

But I thank you for calling into "the qiew."

You're welcome.

Okay. There we go.

Jennifer: so, jodie, after all this discussion,

How do you feel?

Are you still on the fence about hormones?

Are you...

This discussion made me point right back to penelope.

My job is to ask penelope

How he's feeling about himself and his body,

And that will lead me to the answers

Because there's research and there's opinions,

And then there's what happens in your home.

Jodie: penelope is not a statistic,

And I will have to move with penelope

As penelope moves through life,

And so if it became so difficult for penelope to live,

Then, yes, we would take that ginormous leap.

Jazz: someone who suggests

That gender dysphoria is a passing phase,

I really want to tell them that the hormone blockers

Changed and saved my life,

And I am a woman,

And if I want to go through a medical process

That allows me to be a woman

And it'll make me more comfortable in my skin,

Then you should be okay with that.

Paul: for all of us at "the qiew,"

We thank you very much for joining us today,

And we'll see you next time on our show.

Bye, everybody. -Thank you.

-Thanks, guys. -Bye.

Next time on "I am jazz"...

It's possible that dr. Ting

Is going to recommend the tissue expander.

I've made arrangements for the o.r.

In case we choose to do it.

Jazz: I have to head to new york for another consultation.

This is my body, you know? I'm scared.

If you end up having the expanders,

I think you end up needing a gap year.

I can hear the underlying excitement in your voice

Because you're getting your way.

Getting his way? What are you talking about?

Is it true that you don't want me

To get the surgery until I'm an adult?

Is it true?

We have to put a needle through the skin in the scrotum,

Into the expander, and inject saline into it.

This sounds like my worst nightmare.

After examining you,

As far as a tissue expander is concerned...

♪♪