08x07 - I Loved My Daughter

[bunniefuu]

[dramatic music playing]

[William]
We had one more angle

that we were working with.

We wanted to interview
Crystal's daughter

who was five years old
at the time.

[interviewer speaking]

[Zaniah speaking]

[Danny]
She did describe

what she hears
as a bad guy behind her.

[Zaniah speaking]

[interviewer speaking]

[Zaniah speaking]

[Danny] She may have seen
the k*ller who committed this crime.

[dramatic music playing]

[dramatic music playing]

[narrator] Twenty-four-year-old
Brittney Cosby

and girlfriend Crystal Jackson

are paying a visit
to Brittney's aunt.

Check out our new wheels,
auntie.

[Ebony] Brittney and I
were very close.

We spent summers and holidays
together, weekends together.

We were more than
just auntie and niece.

It was kind of like
a sisterhood.

Oh, girls.

This is perfect.

They were just both happy that
they finally reached one of their goals,

and that was just
to get their own car.

Well, come on in.
Let's celebrate, come on.

[narrator] Brittney and Crystal
have been dating for two years.

[Ebony] I think they just
had a connection.

They understood
each other, you know?

They made plans together,
getting a place together.

They were both definitely
in it for the long haul.

How's little miss Zaniah?

[narrator] Zaniah is Crystal's
five-year-old daughter

who lives with Crystal
and her parents.

When we get our own place,

we could fix up a room
for her real nice.

[Ebony] Brittney loved kids.

She was very excited
to be a part of Niah's life.

I can't wait for us to move in
and become a proper family.

You can tell they loved
each other.

You can tell that they cared about
the wellbeing of Crystal's daughter.

It was just a good vibe
with them.

[dramatic music playing]

[phone ringing]

[dispatcher speaking]

[woman speaking]

- [dispatcher speaking]
- [woman speaking]

[dispatcher speaking]

[woman speaking]

[narrator]
The bodies are located

behind a grocery store
in the Bolivar Peninsula.

A stretch of land
just a short boat ride

from Galveston, Texas.

[William] When we have
a situation like this,

it's extremely important
that we can respond

as quick as possible.

The ferry boat takes


to get across the channel.

So we're already
at a time deficit.

This was my first homicide
at this agency.

On my drive over there,
I don't know what to think.

[William] And we did
some walkthrough,

it was kinda shocking for me.

Two victims.
One female, one male.

[Danny] The first subject
had what appeared to be

a g*nsh*t wound to the head.

[William] The other victim had
their head wrapped in a sheet.

This victim was dressed
in male-type clothing,

dark jeans,

m*llitary-style boots,

boxer shorts.

When we removed the sheet,
that's when we found out

that victim number two was
a female and not a male.

Make that two females.

Her head was beaten
with a blunt force object.

That tells us this was done
out of rage.

Not a lot of blood.

[William] There should've been
a lot more blood at the scene

than what we were seeing.

There was no spatter
that we would expect to see

from a g*nsh*t wound.

We knew that they had not
been k*lled at that location.

We really need to speak
to the 911 caller.

[dramatic music playing]

Hi.

Detective Kitchens,
Detective Kilburn,

Galveston PD.

Did you recognize either
of the victims at all?

The cashier thought
that she may have seen

one of the victims in there
with another subject

a couple days before.

[William] There was a surveillance
camera on the inside of the store,

and there was also one outside

that was facing
toward the parking lot.

[Danny]
It may give us a timestamp

on when we last see the victims

and see if there's
any other parties involved.

The surveillance footage
is gathered

at an offsite location.

[narrator] The store manager
agrees to send the footage

to the sheriff's office.

[dramatic music playing]

[William] We've looked
for any evidence

near the dumpster,

which was directly behind
the convenience store.

[Danny] We find
a trim off of a house,

maybe window shutters.

[William]
It was two-tone paint,

but it was also
bloodstained as well.

[Danny] When we see the way
these victims were k*lled,

it looks to be something brutal.

We did find a letter
addressed to a Brittney Cosby.

Which had a address
out of Houston, Texas,

50 miles away.

We speculated
that one of the victims

could possibly be Brittney.

So our first thought was
to go to this address

and see if Brittney Cosby
actually lives at this residence.

[William]
Once we got to the house,

it was clear to us
one of the windows

was missing a shutter

that was identical
to the shutter that we had

at our crime scene.

Hello, ma'am. Does a
Brittney Cosby live here?

- [Annie Lee] Yes.
- [Danny] I was met

at the front door
by Annie Lee Cosby.

She's a 92-year-old
that lives there,

she's alone, she's an amputee,
she's in a wheelchair.

Do you mind if we come inside?

I see photographs around
and I'm able to identify

our first victim as being
Brittney Cosby.

I'm very sorry
to inform you of this, ma'am.

And then that's at the time
that I let Ms. Cosby know

that her granddaughter
had been m*rder*d.

- [sobbing]
- [Danny] Telling somebody

that they've lost a loved one

is one thing we don't
wanna have to do.

I know this is hard,

but can we ask you
some questions?

[narrator] Detective Kitchens
videos the conversation.

- [Danny speaking]
- [Annie Lee speaking]

[Danny speaking]

[Annie Lee speaking]

[Danny] She told us
that she thought

that Brittney had left
with her girlfriend Crystal

the day before to go to work
and hadn't seen them since.

At this point,
we can only assume

that Crystal Jackson is
the second victim.

But we need to confirm it.

After a short while,

a Black male comes to the house.

- [James speaking]
- [Danny speaking]

- [James speaking]
- [Annie Lee speaking]

- [James speaking] - [Danny]
We just have to see them.

[sobbing]

[James speaking]

[Danny speaking]

Mr. Cosby then breaks down
and starts crying

and being really upset
with what had happened.

[sobbing]

[Danny]
Me being a father myself,

you know, I try
to sympathize with him,

to try to imagine what it is
that he's having to deal with

after hearing this news.

[William speaking]

[James speaking]

[Danny] They described it
as being a 2006 Kia Sorento,

uh, two-tone, dark gray
at the bottom,

silver at the top
with a sunroof.

[William] The vehicle's missing
and nobody seemed to know

where that vehicle was.

We needed to find that vehicle.

We needed to find it now.

[William speaking]

[James speaking]

[William speaking]

[James speaking]

- [William speaking]
- [James speaking]

[William speaking]

[James speaking]

[William speaking]

[James speaking]

[William] I've got these
boards in my crime scene,

they're stained with blood.

The family's
saying this handyman

is the one who tears out
all these boards.

He's the last person to ever
be around these boards.

So it was extremely important
that we speak to him.

[dramatic music playing]

[narrator]
Back at the station,

Detective Kitchens puts
a BOLO out on the Kia

and runs Crystal Jackson's
name through the system.

From her driver's license,
we were able

to positively identify her

as being our second victim.

Also, we're able to get
an address

which leads us
to the victim's family.

[knocks on door]

- Ivan Jackson?
- Yes?

Detectives Kilburn and Kitchens.

You mind if we come inside?

[dramatic music playing]

[Danny] I explained to
Crystal's father, Mr. Jackson,

that their daughter
had been m*rder*d.

When he hears this information,

he breaks down immediately
right in front of me.

I told Crystal
that Brittney was trouble.

[Danny] He reveals that he is
a local preacher at a church

and he did not believe
in the relationship

that Crystal and Brittney
had together.

Naturally,
we're gonna look at him

because this was something
that rubbed him the wrong way.

You own a g*n?

[William] He had a .25 caliber
semi-a*t*matic.

Knowing that he's got a firearm

and I've got a victim
with a g*nsh*t wound,

and then I've got a victim
with her face covered,

um, kinda set off
a red flag for us.

We're gonna have to ask you
some more questions.

Can you come by
the station later?

- Of course.
- Thank you.

[narrator] Back at Galveston
County Sheriff's office,

detectives receive the footage

from the grocery store.

[William] Video cameras
pick up a whole lot more

than what our eyewitnesses do.

You can make out
all kinds of evidence

that may lead to your suspect.

Load it up to 3:00 PM.

[Danny] The cashier believed
that Brittney or Crystal

came into the store the
day before around 3 o'clock.

Maybe we could see
who'd Brittney and Crystal

might've last been with.

Any moment, we could be looking

right into the eyes
of the k*ller.

[dramatic music playing]

Take it back.

Freeze it there.

We see a Black female,
which does come in at that time.

The woman in the video was
somewhat of a heavier build

than what Brittney
and Crystal were.

Brittney and Crystal
both were small,

petite type individuals,
and this woman was not.

Play on.

[William] No other people
come into the store.

[Danny] Bring up
the exterior camera.

[William] There was a
surveillance camera on the outside

facing toward the parking lot.

[narrator] Detectives
cue the footage

and try to spot either
the two victims in their Kia

for any suspicious activity.

[Danny] We're looking
for any vehicle

coming into the parking lot.

We wanna know, did they
arrive alive,

did they arrive dead,

and if so, who might have
been driving the vehicle?

We've viewed several hours
of video footage.

Unfortunately,
we're not able to see

any vehicle pull through
the parking lot

or drive up the side.

That was our first lead.

And to have it just,
kind of, fizzle out like that

was, kind of, a letdown.

[intense music playing]

[narrator] Investigators
follow up on their next lead,

the Cosby family's handyman.

[Danny] So we were able to get

the actual name and address
of the lawn man

where we went and made
contact with him.

- Pepe?
- Mmm-hmm.

[Danny] He actually walks
with a cane

and he's, kind of, feeble
himself and I realized

there's no way he could've
committed this crime.

He could positively
be ruled out as a suspect.

Thank you for your time.

It is somewhat frustrating

because at this time,
we have no leads.

[dramatic music playing]

[Ebony] I was actually going to the
Livestock Show and Rodeo concert that night.

I remember just getting dressed.

And I just happened to go
to Facebook.

And I had messages galore.

I'm like, "What's going on?"

I clicked on one of the messages

and he was just like, "Hey,
friend, I think they found

your niece
and her girlfriend dead."

I went to channel 13,

and that was the first face
I've seen was her and Crystal.

And I was just numb.

And I just remember calling my
brother and I'm like, "What happened?"

James.

Yes, I'm on my way.

As I'm making that drive
to Brittney's house,

you're angry,

but you're hurt
at the same time.

So it's like, I just wanna get to
the bottom of what happened.

I was trying to comfort James,

you know, just hugging him.

Let him know we're here for him.

It was a lot. It was a...
it was actually a whole lot,

but the biggest question
was who did it?

Because I was just like,
"Who would harm her?"

[narrator] Detectives request
Crystal Jackson's father

attend the station
for a formal interview.

[Danny] We needed
to speak with him

because we knew
that he didn't agree

with the relationship
that his daughter

and Brittney had.

[man speaking]

Mr. Jackson believed
in the biblical definition

of intimate relationship
between two people.

He just did not agree with
his daughter being h*m*

and that was a point
of contention

between him and his daughter.

[Danny] This caused him
to drive a wedge

between each other.

Ivan Jackson still continues
to be a suspect

until we can
positively rule him out.

[intense music playing]

Oh, thanks.

[Bill] The autopsy results
for Brittney revealed

that she had been struck,

I believe five times
on the back of the head.

She had also been choked.

That's brutal.

[Bill] Crystal had
a g*nsh*t wound

to one side of her head
with an exit wound

on the opposite side.

[Danny] It appeared
to me that that person

was just in a hurry
to k*ll Crystal.

But the nature
of the injury to Brittney

was quite extreme.

Whoever this individual was

was extremely furious with her.

We know now to focus more on

who might have been angry
with Brittney and why.

We suspected that the two bodies

were dumped behind the store,

but we were trying to figure
out how they got there.

One of the ways is
you can take the ferry

over to the westernmost side
of Bolivar Peninsula

and from there, you would travel
about a mile, a mile and a half

to where
Fisherman's Cove store is.

[intense music playing]

[narrator] Detectives contact
the ferry company.

That manifest confirms
a Kia Sorento did cross over

on the evening before
the bodies were discovered.

[Danny] This is an exciting
deal because it looks like

our Kia possibly came
onto the ferry.

[William] On this ferry landing,

there are several
different cameras.

So the anticipation is great

that hopefully
we're gonna see the suspect

or the people the girls
might have been with.

[narrator] The ferry manager
cues up the footage to 9:18 p.m.

The time the manifest states
the Kia boarded the ferry.

[William] One of our camera
angles from the Galveston side

of the ferry landing was
pointing toward the vehicles

as they're boarding the boats.

[intense music playing]

There it is.

Zoom in.

[Danny] Somewhere around 9:18,
we could see

a two-toned gray or silver
Kia Sorento board the ferry.

[William]
Even though you can't see

your license plate,
it was the right color.

It was the right make and model.

We believe that this is
the vehicle

that transported
Brittney and Crystal

to the Bolivar Peninsula.

Zoom in on the windows.

I can't see a driver.

I can't see anything
through the windows.

We've watched frame by frame

as much as we could
slow it down.

But that was about as far
as we could go

with that particular angle.

Building backwards
from that video surveillance,

we were able to establish
the time that the Kia Sorento

would be hitting
that ferry landing.

The anticipation was very high

that this angle was
gonna be our sh*t

to actually see
somebody on camera.

[William] At
approximately 9:13 p.m.,

the Sorento enters
the ferry landing.

We noticed that the driver
side light was out.

It looked as if
it wasn't working.

That's fantastic because
if we find this vehicle

and the headlight's out, well,
you know, that's a match.

We're even more excited to see

the guard stop this vehicle.

And then, as he's
talking to the driver,

the driver steps out of the car.

[intense music playing]

[William] You can tell
the person's height,

you can tell the build.

It was a male person.

He was taller than the vehicle.

But the camera's so far away,

you can't see a detailed face.

We've got our vehicle
getting onto the ferry

on the Galveston side

with a man driving the vehicle.

Where's Brittney?
Where's Crystal?

We're gonna need to speak
to that security guard please.

[Danny] We're eager to find
out what information he knows

because he may actually
lead us to the person

that we're looking for.

Thank you for coming in.

Do you remember this vehicle?

The information that the
security guard was able to give us

was there was definitely
a Black male driver,

clean cut, well-kept,
well-groomed.

The driver did not appear

to be familiar with the vehicle.

That tells me
that the car's stolen

or he's not supposed
to be in it.

Would you be open to helping us
create a sketch of the man that you saw?

All right.

[intense music playing]

Yeah. Okay, thanks.

Take a look at this.

[William] It really didn't match

anybody close to the victims.

It didn't look like
Ivan Jackson.

It didn't look like James Cosby.

It's nowhere near
anything we have so far.

You know, maybe this is
somebody new

that we're gonna have to find.

[narrator] Detective Kitchens
turns back to the autopsy report

for any further leads.

Hey, check this out.

It was a high caliber firearm
that k*lled Crystal.

There's no way that
that .25 caliber firearm

that belonged to Ivan Jackson

would have done the damage
to her that it did.

[William] It was
pretty much at that point

that he was ruled out
as a suspect.

It was very difficult
knowing that I was a suspect.

I love my baby.

I love her too much to hurt her.

When they told me
that my baby was dead...

I couldn't do nothing
but go in the house

and hug my granddaughter.

It hurt me.
I'd never been hurt

as bad as I was hurt that day.

I never dreamed that I would
have to bury my own child.

[William] This was
one of those cases

where we would a have theory

and then you come across
something that totally throws

a monkey wrench into that.
And it would be like,

"Okay. That theory is not
even close to being right."

So you're starting
completely over.

[Danny] We found out that
Brittney actually worked at Starbucks.

The manager there said that
she never came in to work that day,

which is unlike her.

Finding out Brittney
never arrived to work

then we possibly have
a time window.

Did something happen
once they left the house?

We got to find out
what's going on

from the point
that they left the house

to the point that we see
the Kia pull up

to the ferry landing.

[William] We really needed to
start looking for surveillance video

in and around Brittney's house

showing the vehicle passing by

to see if there was
anybody following them.

Our detectives did stop
into a liquor store

and were able to find
surveillance video there.

[narrator] The store's
surveillance camera

captures the far end
of Brittney Cosby's street,

as well as a major roadway
leading to Galveston.

Cue to March 6th.

[narrator] Detectives roll
the footage back

to the time Brittney
and Crystal were said

to have left
the Cosby household.

[Danny] There it is.

Rewind.

[Danny] At 7:48 that morning,
we actually see the Kia

coming from the residence
on Howcher

and of course we're thinking
this may be the two girls

leaving to go to work.

What's going on?

[Danny] After the Kia drives by,

a white sedan immediately
makes a U-turn

and follows the same direction.

They U-turn and it looks like

they have a purposeful intent

to turn around
and follow the Kia.

Zoom in on the vehicle.

[William] We could tell that this
vehicle was a white Hyundai Sonata.

To have them turn around
quick like that

and get behind that Kia,
that was like, you know,

what's the connection here
and what's happening?

Are we looking at the k*ller?

[William] We needed to find
that vehicle.

So that became a big focus.

[narrator] Detectives continue
to study the footage.

[William] We watched literally
hours of the surveillance video

to see if we could catch them
any other time

coming through that corner.

Is that the Kia?

Approximately 7:43 p.m.,

a vehicle, which we believe
is our Kia Sorento,

again comes to that corner.

They're coming
from the direction

of Brittney Cosby's residence.

The vehicle was traveling
towards Galveston.

At 9:13 p.m., they're driving
in Galveston.

You know, is that the amount
of time it takes to drive

from that corner
to the ferry landing?

It will be perfect timing
from leaving that area

and making it to Galveston.

We believe that it's probably
the suspect we're looking for

driving the vehicle.

[William] Believing
that this vehicle

was coming from
the Cosby residence,

we're thinking that maybe
this is a better indication

that our homicide may have
actually occurred

at that address.

[narrator] At the station,
the forensics report

from the crime scene lands
on Detective Kilburn's desk.

Hey, Kitchens,

labs identify the fingerprint
on some evidence.

It came from the piece of paper

that was on the shutter board.

And the way that paper
was bent around that board,

it appeared to us
that it was used

as a way to carry that board.

We received word back
that a fingerprint

was a left thumbprint

of Brittney's dad, James Cosby.

Meet me at Howcher Street.

The positive fingerprint hit
on Mr. Cosby

was a huge piece of evidence.

That leads us to believe
that he is, at a minimum,

the person that dumped
the bodies.

[Danny] Once we get
to Howcher Street,

James Cosby is
actually at a vigil.

So we speak with the caretaker

that is watching
Annie Lee Cosby.

I asked her if she noticed
anything out of the ordinary.

She mentioned that it's clean
underneath the carport,

which is odd to her.

Once I'm starting
to clue in on this place

has just recently been cleaned,

why are there four bricks

sitting at the end of this
wheelchair ramp?

I look at the concrete
underneath the bricks

and there appears to be
four drops of blood.

Inside the residence,
we start to see more evidence

of a struggle
that had taken place.

We start to see where
there's more blood drops.

There were bits of carpet

that were moved on top
of some of the bloodstains

throughout that room,

as if somebody
was trying to hide it.

[William] We used the chemical
to examine this room with.

That for us was
a eye-opening moment,

you know, as bright
as this thing is glowing,

there was blood everywhere.

[Danny] All the evidence we
find only points to one person

and one person only,

James Cosby.

[narrator] The investigators
bring James Cosby

to the station for questioning.

He's asked to describe
his movements on March 6th.

- [Danny speaking]
- [James speaking]

[Danny] He said
that Brittney and Crystal

had left the house that morning.

[James speaking]

He told us he was at home
the entire evening.

That he never went anywhere.

I felt fairly sure that
he wasn't being truthful.

[Danny speaking]

[bleep]

[Danny speaking]

[suspenseful music playing]

[Danny] Not being able to get

some kind of emotional
response from him

was extremely frustrating.

And he had no explanation to us

about why his fingerprint
got on that piece of paper.

[Danny speaking]

[bleep]

[Danny speaking]

[James speaking]

[Danny] But we could


of those bodies simply for
the fingerprint.

[William] We had enough
probable cause to say

that he moved those bodies
from where they were

and dumped them in Bolivar.

[narrator] James is charged
with tampering with evidence.

A buccal swab is taken

and his cell phone is seized.

[Danny] We still had a job to do

building this case
to a higher charge

which would have been m*rder
or capital m*rder.

[narrator] Investigators examined
James Cosby's phone records

for March 6th.

[Bill] His phone was calling
another phone multiple times

which belonged
to a Kimberly Pierce.

[Danny]
Kimberly was located

and brought in for questioning.

She arrived to her interview
in the white Sonata

which was a match to the car
in the liquor store video.

- [Danny speaking]
- [Kimberly speaking]

[Danny speaking]

She did confirm that the
white car that made the U-turn

behind Mr. Cosby
was indeed her vehicle.

She was en route
to Mr. Cosby's residence

that morning when seeing him
drive away on Howcher Street.

[Danny speaking]

[Kimberly speaking]

[Danny speaking]

[Danny] She said James
was in the Kia.

This proved that he was lying

because he told us
he was at home.

[narrator] Kimberly said
she spent the day with James

but left him at 3:00 p.m.

to pick up her children
from school.

[Bill] We didn't believe
that Kimberly had any role

in the murders or the dumping
of the bodies.

[William] But we were missing
a vital piece for us,

and that was the vehicle.

That vehicle will tie
the m*rder scene in Houston

to the dump scene in Bolivar.

So it was extremely important
that we find that vehicle.

[tense music playing]

[Danny] April 17, 2014,

it's my birthday,
that's how I remember.

We found that the vehicle
had actually been parked

at a strip club in Houston
after the bodies were dumped.

Hey, can you turn
the headlights on?

Lo and behold, when we turned
the headlights on,

the driver side light
doesn't work.

Open the trunk.

[William] When you open
the hatch of this vehicle up,

it's blood everywhere.

Down by the luggage rack,
we found a b*llet.

[Bill] The fibers on
the b*llet were consistent

with the weave that Crystal
had been wearing

when her body was found.

Finding the b*llet

on the trunk side
of the backseat

tells us that the tailgate
had to have been open

when the sh*t was fired.

That leads us to believe
that Crystal was k*lled

outside under the carport.

[Danny] Our forensic team was
able to get cigarette butts

out of the ashtray
and was able to compare DNA

confirming that Mr. Cosby was
indeed inside the vehicle.

[William]
We had one more angle

that we were working with.

We wanted to interview
Crystal's daughter

who was five years old
at the time

to see if she'd seen anything.

- [interviewer speaking]
- [Zaniah speaking]

[interviewer speaking]

[Zaniah speaking]

[interviewer speaking]

[Zaniah speaking]

[Danny] She said her mother
then went back inside the house

and she never saw her mother
come out again.

She did describe what she
hears as a bad guy behind her

at which time she tried
to hide into the seat

to where the bad guy
would not see her.

[Zaniah speaking]

[interviewer speaking]

[Zaniah speaking]

[interviewer speaking]

[Zaniah speaking]

[narrator] Investigators
can finally build a picture

of what happened
to Brittney and Crystal

on March 6th.

Based on what
Zaniah had told me,

I hypothesized that
Crystal took Zaniah,

placed her into the car.

At the same time
on the inside of the house,

James Cosby and Brittney Cosby

became involved
in a physical altercation,

at which time
James Cosby snapped...

and b*at Brittney to death.

It's my belief that Crystal
walked back into the house

and was watching this take place

and immediately ran
out the side door

to the back of the vehicle

which is where James Cosby,
we believe, caught up with her

and then sh*t her in the head,

which would explain
why the b*llet was found

in the back of the backseat.

[narrator] James then disposed
of the window shutter

because it was covered
in blood spatter.

[Bill] He was using
the piece of paper,

kind of, as an oven mitt
to try to hold the shutter

without leaving his
fingerprints on the wood.

That's how he left

a fingerprint
on the piece of paper.

[narrator] James spent
the day with Kimberly

before driving
to the Bolivar Peninsula

in the evening to dump
the bodies and the evidence.

[William] The video surveillance

helped us tie
everything together.

[Danny] It's just one more
piece of the puzzle

that just puts that person there

that you suspect
committed the crime.

[narrator] In June 2015,

James Cosby is charged
with capital m*rder.

A year later, he is found guilty

and sentenced to life in prison.

[Bill] He was
envious and jealous

of Brittney
and Crystal's success.

They had jobs.

They've just bought a car,

they were doing well.

And he was this ex-con

who didn't really work.

A person that can m*rder
their child

and her girlfriend and then
act like nothing happened

is truly an evil person

that needs to be
locked up forever.

[Ivan] I still have
that hurt in my heart.

I can see my daughter
now up in heaven

looking down on her daughter
just being a child

and living to be the woman

that her mother
should have been.

[Danny] The Jackson family
has now become our family.

I mean, we spend a lot
of time together

to the point that now
Zaniah is my goddaughter.

[Ebony] Every morning
when I get up,

I just look at her and smile.

If I could speak
to Brittney right now,

I think I will remind her
that you were never alone,

you were never by yourself,
you know, so...