01x02 - Episode 2

Episode transcipts for the "Leaving Neverland" a two-part original documentary. Aired January 2019.
A two part documentary on Michael Jackson's long-running relationships with two boys, aged 7 and 10, and their families. They now tell the story of how they were sexually abused by him two decades ago.
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01x02 - Episode 2

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Wade: I never told anyone about any of the sexual stuff that went on.

I felt special.

I was this boy from the other side of the world and Michael chose me.

Yeah, there's no question I was like head over heels in love with Michael.

And he said he loved me.

- (crowd cheering)
- (host talking)

- What's your name?
- My name's Wade.

His name's Wade. How old are you Wade?

- Ten.
- Ten years old.

Wade: A real momentum had started behind my career in the dance world, starting to do music videos, commercials, and acting in TV shows.

Go on, Wade! Show what else you can do!

- (hip-hop music playing)
- (crowd cheering)

Wade: A lot of it became about impressing Michael.

Hopefully make him happy and make him impressed, and, you know, get that stamp of approval.

- (music continues)
- Host: Yeah, Wade!

Give Wade a hand!

- Yeah!
- (cheering)

Wade: There was a kind of mass sleepover at Neverland.

I would've been about .

And it was Jordy, Jordan Chandler, Macaulay Culkin, and myself.

- (singing)
- Jordy was the new kid, the new boy, and the one who was super close with Michael.

Michael and Jordy would disappear a lot.

And I remember this particular moment when... all of us kids and Michael were... were hanging out in Michael's bedroom in Neverland.

All of a sudden, Michael and Jordy were gone.

They had gone in one of his bathrooms, and the door was closed.

You know, I used to be the boy who was in there with Michael.

You know, I just knew in my gut that...that's what they were doing when they were disappearing.

They were doing all of that same sexual stuff.

Good morning, everyone.
Michael Jackson is at the center of a criminal investigation in Los Angeles.

One report talks of child abuse charges.

Newsman: Official reports obtained by NBC News detail the allegations against Jackson, made by a -year-old boy.

He told a case worker that a four-month-long relationship with Jackson began with the singer hugging him, and ended with various sex acts.

When pop star Michael Jackson dropped out of sight two weeks ago, there was much speculation that he was trying to duck child molestation allegations.

Newsman: Jackson's people claim the charges are part of an extortion plot.

They claim that Michael is more of a victim than a suspect.

Joy: He loved children. He missed out on his childhood.

He just enjoyed being with children.

I can hear him saying to me, "I would never hurt a child."

He would cry.

"I could never hurt a child," and he would break into tears.

Very convincing.

You know, I'd been told that Wade was sleeping, doing sleepovers with Michael, and sleeping in his bed.

And then you hear stories of, you know, someone accusing him of molesting a child, and I'm, like, holy crap, is...

Is that what's happening with my brother?

Wade: The next big thing I remember was two cops showing up at my door.

Joy: They said that Michael had been charged with child abuse.

I said to Wade, you know, "You've done nothing wrong. You can tell us. It's not your fault, you've done nothing wrong."

Wade was very stoic.

But this was... (sighs)

you know, terrifying right from the get.

This is the first time that...anyone ever... directly asked me, you know, did Michael Jackson ever touch you sexually or anything like that?

Without flinching, without batting an eyelash, you know, my answer was no.

No way. Absolutely not.

You know, did this... Did he ever touch you here?

Did this sort of thing ever happen? Did he ever show you... any p*rn?

All of those sorts of questions, you know.

Over and over again, without flinching, my answer was no, absolutely not. Never.

Joy: Obviously, as a mother, when these allegations were brought to us, the first thing when I get Wade by himself, I said to him, "Okay. "So, as your mother, I need to ask you, has Michael ever done anything inappropriate with you?"

And he was so convincing.

"Absolutely not.

"He has never ever done anything. Never."

You know, as soon as the cop started asking me these questions, the first thing that came to mind for me was everything that Michael started saying to me when I was seven.

You know, if anyone ever found out that... we were doing any of these sort of things, these sexual things, that he and I would go to jail for the rest of our lives.

It was terrifying.

Why is Michael Jackson, an adult, repeatedly sleeping in the same bed with a young boy?

It is important to note that children everywhere are watching to see how this child, who has been brave enough to come forward, to make his allegations will be treated.

They may be fearful about what will happen to them if they come forward to make a charge against a celebrity, or against a powerful person.

Michael Jackson: There have been many disgusting statements made recently concerning allegations of improper conduct on my part.

These statements about me are totally false.

They served a search warrant on me, which allowed them to view and photograph my body, including my penis, my buttocks, my lower torso, thighs, and any other area that they wanted.

It brings tears to my eyes when I see any child who suffers.

I am not guilty of these allegations, but if I am guilty of anything, it is of giving all that I have...

All that I have to give to help children all over the world.

It is of loving children of all ages and races.

It is of gaining sheer joy from seeing children with their innocent and smiling faces.

To my friends and fans, thank you very much for all of your support.

Together, we will see this through to the very end.

I love you very much, and may God bless you all.

I love you. Goodbye.

James: He had been, I think, a little absent from my life.

And then, he's back in it 'cause he needs you for something.

He needs you to testify.

So honestly, you're happy that he's back.

You're kind of just excited that he's talking to you again.

Stephanie: First heard it on the news.

Totally shocked.

I told my husband, "We need to talk to Jimmy."

He said Michael did not touch him.

"Are you all all right?
Did anything happen to you?"

"No, Mom."

It was like, "No, Mom," like that.

It would go for months without talking, or seeing each other.

Now all of a sudden, once... this Jordy case kind of exploded in the press... every day, he would call.

- (voicemail beeps)
- Electronic voice: Friday, : p.m.

(voicemail beeps)

Michael Jackson: Gabby! (laughs)

It's Apple Head. Um, I was wondering maybe...

(Australian accent): sometime tomorrow night, we could see a movie.

It'd be really nice.

So, I'll call you tomorrow.

I'll sleep in tomorrow, and then maybe we can do something. Thank you!

Goodbye (laughs).

- Bye, Little One.
- (line clicks)

After these phone calls had been going on for a while, there were...

I mean, you know, really similar, each one, and just the same sort of talk, and...

I mean, what I understand now as coaching sessions, you know.

I went in to meet his lawyers for, like, a rehearsal.

They gave me... They did, like, a mock interview.

You know, kind of role-playing a policeman or lawyer and...

You know, "We know you guys have done this. We have photos.

So, just tell us... Just tell us about it."

That... That's like a ploy. Like, they don't know, they don't have photos, just tell them no.

That's, like, the golden rule.

You know, just don't tell them, and they don't actually know, or they can't prove it.

It was reported in Vanity Fair that, that Michael convinced his -year-old mother...

The mother of his -year-old accuser to allow...

To allow him to move in with them in the same house, and that for three months, he slept in the same bed with this -year-old boy.

I mean, at best, would you describe Michael Jackson's behavior as just extremely weird?

Well, I wouldn't accept what I read in Vanity Fair, Katie, and that's one of the things I'd like to talk about at some point.

But, let me say this. I think when the facts come out, that you'll find out that Michael Jackson loves children, and he loves them in a very, very proper way.

You know, very much said...

He used the... "They want fame and money" card.

Like, that was... So, kind of what he... he pitched to everybody.

Um, so, that's what he told my parents, and they believed him.

(noisy chattering)

Stephanie: And I said to Michael, why is this boy doing this to you?

And he said, "Oh, it's not him. It's his father.

His father wants money."

I asked if he was angry with the boy.

He said, "No, I'm not angry with him."

And I thought, what a good man.

What a good man Michael is.

He's not even mad at the child.

- (indistinct chattering)
- Michael: Thank you.

Newsman: Jackson likes to surround himself with young children, and some of them have been speaking out on his behalf.

Last night, this girl, who says she and her brother have spent lots of time with Jackson, talked to station KNBC in Los Angeles, denouncing the allegations of child molestation.

I think it's sick, personally, because Michael loves little kids.

- You know, I've known Michael since I was .
- Man: Mm-hmm.

He's never done anything to me.

He's never done anything to my brother.

I loved this man. I trusted him.

I didn't think he would ever do anything.

You know that he's famous and people could do this, and people could be after money and stuff like that.

So, that wasn't hard to believe.

Newsman: Joy Robson said she did not believe Jackson would molest anyone.

You just develop that trust with him immediately.

He's just a very special person.

Because we were so close with Michael, obviously...

I wanted to believe that.

But more than anything, I believed my son.

I believed that he would've told me had something happened.

Newsman: Sources tell CNN, authorities may attempt to bring Wade before the grand juror.

I was excited by the idea of being able to defend him, and being able to save him.

Yeah, you know, there's been different times where it'd just be me and Michael.

Then there'd be other times where he has other friends over, too.

It's just... a slumber party.
We just have a lot of fun.

I've been there when these kids have been in Michael's room.

I've been there with them. It's just party time.

They watch videos. They eat junk food.

They play video games.

They play so hard, they fall asleep.

They're exhausted. They fall asleep.

There's nothing more to it than that.

Man: From your standpoint, does it seem unusual for a -year-old man to have kids sleeping over?

Not when you know Michael's background.

Under normal circumstances, possibly, yes.

But Michael, everybody knows he didn't have a childhood.

Newsman: Soon, it will be Jackson's turn himself to respond to questions.

The teen said that when they traveled together to Monaco last May, quote, "That's when the whole thing really got out of hand.

"He then masturbated me to climax. After that,

"Michael Jackson masturbated me many times both with his hand and with his mouth."

Among the documents filed with the court were excerpts of depositions by several former Jackson employees, including Jackson's chauffeur, who said he dropped the entertainer off at the boy's house on overnight visits days in a row.

Also included was a deposition of former Jackson maid, Blanca Francia, who claims that at Jackson's Neverland Ranch, he has a closet within a closet in which he kept pictures and videotapes of children.

She also claims to have seen Jackson naked with young boys on several occasions.

Jackson publicly denied the allegations last week at the NAACP Image Awards in Pasadena.

Everyone is presumed to be innocent, and totally innocent, until they are charged with a crime, and then convicted by a jury of their peers.


James: He asked me to testify.

There was like a pretrial, so I went to court.

I remember going in there, and... being very... robotic.

I mean, I had, like I said, rehearsed it so much, that it was just going through the motions.

They asked, and, you know, I said no, of course.

Just like part of my job...to, you know, to do that for Michael.

He's a very, very nice, kind person.

He wouldn't hurt anybody.

He doesn't have a mean bone in his body.

Like, I knew it was true... but I couldn't let myself go there, and it was just like Jordy... was the enemy.

Michael... told me that I had to lie. And that's what I did.

I lied.

I know Michael very well.

I know he wouldn't do anything like that.

Woman: Has he ever tried to do anything with you that would even be considered questionable?

No, nothing.

Nothing at all. Has never touched you?

- Mm-mm.
- Have you ever seen Michael naked?


There's a stunning development in the Michael Jackson story.

NBC News has confirmed that lawyers for the entertainer accused of sexually molesting a -year-old boy are now seeking an out-of-court settlement in that case, and that lawyers for both sides are actively negotiating an agreement which could be announced as soon as tomorrow.

Jackson reportedly is prepared to pay at least $ million to settle this case.

I don't have any... guilt about... not being able to tell the truth.

I had no choice but to say what I did in that deposition when I was .

That was what I had to say.

We wish to jointly announce a mutual resolution of this lawsuit.

The resolution of this case is in no way an admission of guilt by Michael Jackson.

Then, when they settled out of court, I asked him why he did that, and he said, "My attorney said "it would cost me more money to fight it, so it was better for me to settle it."

Newsman: The accuser settled the civil lawsuit against Jackson, reportedly for between five and million dollars.

Then they took that money.

People said to me that just proves he's guilty.

And I would say no.

That to me proves that all it was about all along was money.

How much money would make it okay for your child to be abused? Ten million? No.

Twenty million? Oh, maybe.

I said, "To me, no amount of money would make that okay."

If I thought that he had touched my son, I would not stop till he was behind bars.

Stephanie: We wanted to buy another house, and Michael gave us a loan at a very low percentage rate.

My husband had already had a deposition.

We were on Michael's camp.

My son also for Michael.

And after that was all said and done is when Michael forgave the debt.

Michael said, "No, I don't want you to pay me anymore," um, "It's a gift."

So, he did buy us a house.

It's just coincidental, he wasn't buying us off, but the timing's right there.

Just sounds bad.


(leaves rustling)

Wade: My mom and I went to Neverland soon after that for a few days.

You know, same sort of... physical scenario happened, meaning Mom stayed in one of the rooms upstairs at Neverland, and... and I went into Michael's room, and into Michael's bed, and... and the same sexual stuff all happened again.

First hearing that, you know, that he wanted to see me, that he wanted me to come there felt so good.

I'm back, like, we're coming back together.

- (clapping rhythmically)
- Crowd: Michael! Michael! Michael!

(crowd screaming)

- Michael!
- (clapping rhythmically)

James: He would just call every once in a while.

He gave me a car when I turned .

I was very much into filmmaking, and I was doing my filmmaking classes, and Michael tells you that, "You don't need school.

"Nobody who ever did anything good goes to school."

So, he'd say, "You don't need it. All you need is me."

He very much said, you know, "You're gonna be like a little Spielberg."

Michael would fund these short films, and I made those all throughout high school.

And I made a mm short film at Neverland.

And he talked to my parents

'cause I was in some of the advanced classes, and he said, "You don't need math."

So, he convinced my parents to pull me out of the classes, so that I can kind of don't have to worry about studying, and just focus on filmmaking.

And he would... he'd tell them, "Don't worry. I'll be there."

He very much is, like, making you depend on him.

Like, "Don't go get an education.

Just... I'll take care of it."

And then when he went away, it just kind of derailed, and I was pretty lost.

Well, it was apparently more than just a rumor.

Press agents have now confirmed that Michael Jackson and Lisa Marie Presley are husband and wife.

Newswoman: The two say they denied their marriage for months in an attempt to avoid the glare of the media.

Mrs. Presley-Jackson issues a statement saying she's very much in love with Michael and looks forward to raising a family.

James: I remember Michael saying to me that he's gonna have to... have these public relationships with women, so that people don't think anything.


He would always say he's gonna get married.

He said he'd have to go get married at some point, but that it wouldn't mean anything.

Stephanie: So one day, I got a phone call from Michael.

He said, "Stephanie, I'm not gonna be able to come over as often."

It was a short phone call.

Hung up, went to my husband and said, "We've just been dumped."

Yeah, it was an emptiness. I loved him.

He was one of my children, so it was a... a child leaving the home.

That's how it felt.

Wade: Again, I was seeing less of Michael.

Still talking to him but less.

Two to three times a year.

Still, every time that I was physically with him and stayed the night with him anywhere, the same sexual stuff happened.

My dance world was kind of really building, and moving towards me being a choreographer.

The dance studio that I had been going to for years, I came to them and said I wanna teach.

They gave me a sh*t, substituting for other teachers.

They gave me my own class and really quickly, that class became massive, packed.

(music playing)

Michael was preparing for his HIStory world tour.

I was... brought by Michael's driver to the dance studio, where Michael was rehearsing, for me to be able to watch rehearsal a little bit and hang out.

("Black Or White" playing)

And that night, he took me back, with Michael back to the hotel.

And so, I'm at this point, and... I've had a major growth spurt.

I'm probably... five-eleven.

So, the same or taller than Michael.

Just a whole different physical vibe.

And at some point in the night, you know, we slip back into the routine, the same sort of sexual stuff.

And I don't remember how exactly it evolved to this, how it moved to this next stage, but what ended up happening is...

Michael, uh, tried to... penetrate me, um, in my anus, with his penis.

You know, trying for a while, and, I guess, was able to a bit, but it was really painful.

And too painful for me, so, so he stopped.


Yeah, I don't remember us, like, talking about it or anything like that, or... acting like... anything particularly different had happened.

I think after that, after it wasn't working, after it was too painful for me, we kind of went back to our regular sexual routine.

The next morning, Michael had like a recording session to prepare for.

He handed me some new, like, camera that he had gotten, that I could play with.

I was dropped off by his driver, um, back to my condo in Hollywood.

And then, that afternoon, my mother receives a phone call from Michael's personal secretary that Michael... wants to see Wade right away.

I think I was picked up again by Michael's driver, and brought to the dance studio where he was back in rehearsals.

Right away, he just went right into it.

He was kind of super nervous and said, "What did you do with your underwear from last night?"

I said, "I don't know. I...

"I don't know. I took them off and, you know, showered and put new ones on."

He said, "You gotta go home and find them.'

"And I don't... You know...

"I don't know if there's any, um, "There might be some blood on them. If there is, you gotta get rid of them."

Joy: How long does it take for you to get home?

Wade: Got back in the car and he drove me back to the condo, and... luckily, not luckily, you know, I guess my mother hadn't... found them, hadn't tried to clean them or anything yet.

I found the underwear, and there was some drops of blood on the inside.

- Dan Reed: Your blood?
- My blood.

Wade: I... grabbed them, sort of stuffed them in my pocket, down into the garage, and threw them in the bin.

That was the last... sexual experience that I remember with Michael.

(laughter) Excuse me!

Newswoman: Wedding bells have rung again for Michael Jackson.

The superstar is on a working honeymoon this morning, with his new bride in Australia.

Newsman: It's the first leg of his HIStory world tour, and Michael Jackson is mixing music with marriage in Sydney, Australia.

The Gloved One giving his hand to longtime friend, Debbie Rowe, who also happens to be six months pregnant with his baby.

Wade: Somewhere in or ,

I think some desire started building in me to, uh, want to try and connect with Dad more.

And we had a couple of phone conversations when he was still in Australia.

He told me some stories of his life and... and, I don't know, it felt like the beginning of something.

Shane: I had moved from Brisbane to the Gold Coast.

He was living down the coast, so I was seeing him a little bit more often.

We would meet and, like, go to a pub and play some pool and talk.

I don't know if he was even working at that point.

You know, he didn't really have any much money.

You know, I think he was probably just living on, you know, like the government kind of handout.

He'd kind of gone downhill.

Wade: I would see my dad usually about... maybe every two years.

And his mental and emotional state just really continued to degrade over the years.

He was diagnosed with bipolar disorder.

He was doing things like disappearing in the night and, and going on walks through the city, through LA.

And catching buses, and, and we'd have to find him.

Shane: You know, I think it kind of scared Wade a little bit, and... and Chantal, which didn't help their relationship at all.

Wade: I mean, I think it terrified me, but my reaction to it was just to get angry.

And like, I just wanted him to go.

Dennis: Should we go on, continue?

Chantal: Wade really pushed my dad away.

He didn't understand why he had to...to understand him 'cause he didn't even know him really.

You know, didn't feel that he needed this person in his life.

Joy: We talked a lot, and at some point, he said to me, "Don't you ever let anybody tell you that you did the wrong thing."

He said, "You did the right thing for Wade, and it was the right thing for me."

He said, "I learned to stand on my own two feet.

"I was so dependent on you, "and I had to learn to live without you, and stand on my own two feet." So, he did... he did rise above it for a while.

It's only when Shane left that, um... he couldn't cope anymore.

Shane: At that point, I didn't know if I was leaving for good.

I said, "I'm taking six months off to go and hang out with the family."

The day that I left, my grandparents, his mom and dad, and Dad, came over to say goodbye before I headed to the airport.

And I remember Dad didn't say a word.

Not... just, nothing at all. He was just... kind of like a statue.

Kind of just staring off in the distance and, um... and then I remember, like, saying goodbye and giving him a hug, and I don't... I don't even think he hugged me.

I think he just stood there while I hugged him.

He was just, you know, like...you know, the lights were on, but no one was home.

I feel like I'd been here for a day, maybe.

Mom was driving around in the car.

I get a phone call, and it was... like, my girlfriend at the time, from Australia.

And she was a police officer as well.

And she called me and said, uh, You know, "Sorry, Shane, but your dad's d*ad."

The day that he left, his father hung himself.

I think my response was just anger, at first.

"You assh*le." Basically, I was kind of pissed off.

He had hung himself... in his apartment.

His mom and dad found him.

- (music playing)
- Wade: I was... in a recording session.

I was writing and producing some music for a pop group.

Got out of the recording session, went to my car, and I had all these kind of missed calls from my mother.

She told me...

"Your dad d*ed."

I brought all the children in...

Home for the night, and we stayed up all night, and we laughed and we cried and we laughed and we cried.

But then, from...

I think, the next day... I don't know, I felt like I just started (sniffles) stitching myself up again already.

One, two, three, four.

("No Strings Attached" by 'NSYNC playing)

Wade: I mean, after the funeral was done, and we went back to Los Angeles, I just went back to the business of moving on, and getting back to work.

♪ And I see what's really going on ♪

Wade: At , with 'NSYNC, I directed what I think, at the time, was considered the largest tour, I mean, just in scale, the size that had ever happened.

♪ Baby, you're not the only one ♪

You might not have heard of Wade Robson, but right now, he's one of the biggest names in world music.

The Queensland-born -year-old has found fame and fortune as the most sought-after h*t-maker in America.

The creative force behind pop star Britney Spears and boy band 'NSYNC.

Newswoman: At , after the family had moved to LA, he started choreographing Britney Spears.

She was so impressed, she asked him to take creative control of every facet of her worldwide Dream Within A Dream tour.

She works real hard, so that's important.

And I'm a workaholic, and a sl*ve driver, you know.

But she's willing to put in the work, so that's always... that always helps. Um...

Newswoman: You're probably every guy's hero, you know that?

(laughs) I guess so.

- (crowd cheering)
- Thank you so much, Little Rock.

You've been such a wonderful audience!

Wade: Michael had some sort of obsession with Britney.

And he would call me, and he'd wanna know, um, you know, what it was like working with her, and what she was like, and, uh, "Isn't she sexy? Isn't she beautiful?"

One and two and three and...

Wondering if I can set up, like, a way for them to meet.

And in those conversations, as well, Michael was really... interested in my... sexual life with girls.

(music playing)

I remember that being just really weird, considering Michael and I's whole sexual history.

It was a weird pull 'cause while at the same time, I mean, I still... loved him deeply.

Maybe one day, I was gonna be the friend for him that he could have a real, honest, vulnerable conversation with.

The one person that he could really be real with.

My name is Laura Primack, and I am James's wife.

I grew up in the suburbs outside of Chicago.

I went to college on the East Coast.

I went to an art school in Rhode Island, and...afterwards, I thought, before I settle back home, I should try the other coast.

(distant siren wails)

There was a dive bar very close to my apartment in Hollywood.

(music playing)

And I would go there on almost a nightly basis.


One night, a girlfriend of mine said she wanted to go there 'cause she had a crush on a guy in the band, which was actually James.

(singing continues)

He was in a band called Skylab.

The singer was British, and the music was kind of like Smashing Pumpkins or Radiohead and, um, they were really fun to watch.

They were really good performers.

So, I went to the bar to meet her, and she ended up falling ill, didn't come.

So, when James's band was up at the bar, buying drinks, I decided to go up and introduce myself.

I mean, he looked the part. He looked awesome, but the first thing he said when I told him I was there to see him 'cause my friend thought he was cute was, "I don't think you're talking about me."

He seemed so wholeheartedly modest and humble and... It just caught me off guard

'cause that's not what I had experienced in Los Angeles so far.

James: She was really sweet, and, um, she's very upbeat.

She just turned out to be a great person, so I got lucky.

Laura: I think the first night that I went to his house, um, it was late at night.

He probably had a band practice, so maybe I got there at : , but he had candies on the side of the bed, and an intention that we were gonna watch Harry Potter.

I mean, that was his, like, "Come on over we'll have a date night thing."

And I thought the fact that he had just bought me candies was adorable.

So, I think we moved in together about six months after we'd started dating.

I think right around that time, too, James had been taking art classes at a local art school and doing his homework in our office.

And at that point, we were growing, we needed more help, and our owner said, "Why don't come in and work with us?"

So, we went from dating, to living together, to living together and working together, so it got very intense very quick when you combine all those things.

It was a pretty traditional start.

That's not to say that, um, there weren't ups and downs, but from my perspective, they were the kinds of ups and downs that most relationships had.

James: Secrets will eat you up.

It sucks life out of you, just deteriorates you from the inside.

Like a part of you is d*ad.

It kind of took everything I had to function during the day, to let other people see me as a functioning person.

So, it took a lot of effort to... to keep it together.

And then, I would go home and... and be a wreck.

And it was hard... I'm sure it was hard on my wife.

Laura: You know, James had a lot of... personality quirks.

You know, he'd go through bouts where he just wanted to stay in bed all weekend and watch TV, or, um... you know, be a little bit more antisocial.

But, for me, especially 'cause I know that I am a people person, I...

A lot of these things, I just assumed were what it's like when you're not a people person.

I loved it. I mean, from my perspective,

"Oh, let's stay in and cuddle and watch movies, and be in the dark and never leave the house."

And then, you know, maybe after the first year, I was like, "Well, should we just go to Target and get groceries, or do something?" (laughs)

Later on, as it didn't really go away, it...

You know, it could get a little bit more boring or confusing.

James: I couldn't sleep, and... I would have just panic att*cks about things that shouldn't give me panic att*cks, and...

One of the weird things is not liking yourself and not knowing why.

Like, I didn't know why I had these problems or felt these ways.

Constant anxiety and... and then depression and... not knowing why you're like that.

When I was in my early s, I did a lot of... substances to help deal with it.

At the time, I didn't know that that's what I was doing.

But then, when I got off the substances, and there was nothing to mask it, was when I was... really noticed that I was anxious all the time.

(footsteps crunching gravel)

Amanda: (laughs) How the hell did you get up there?

Oh, baby. (laughs)

Wade: It's pretty.


My name is Amanda Robson, and I am Wade's wife.

Wade and I met at a nightclub, and I was working as a promoter there.

My girlfriend and I were just like totally playing around on the dance floor, dancing very goofy.

And Wade and his friends, kind of like, jokingly called us out to do like a little battle, which I didn't know who Wade was at the time.

This huge crowd began to form around us, and then Wade and his friends went into this full-on choreographed routine and made us look really ridiculous.

My girlfriend that I was at the club with was like, "Do you know who that is? That's

Wade Robson, 'NSYNC's choreographer," and, you know, thought it was very cool.

And I thought he was a total assh*le.

He was , and I was .

On our first date, I remember him, um, you know, mentioning Michael Jackson was a huge part of why they came over from Australia, and that Michael was his teacher and role model.

It was like, wow, that sounds really intense.

That's what it sounded like to me.

(Christmas music playing)

Wade: I had really started a whole new aspect of my adult life with Amanda.

She'd, you know, been this incredible breath of fresh air to me.

And her perspective on life, what life meant to her, what relationships meant to her was just so clear.

Good afternoon. I'm Ken Shemwell, undersheriff, Santa Barbara County.

In June of , the Santa Barbara County Sheriff's Department received information that a -year-old boy was a possible victim of lewd acts.

The allegation claimed that entertainer Michael Jackson had engaged in these activities with the victim while a guest at the Neverland Ranch.

Is the manager here?

- Manager?
- Manager.

Man: I'm gonna get a uniform for you. Man : Okay.

We got, uh...

Spokesman: This morning, investigators effected the service of a search warrant as a part of an investigation.

An arrest warrant for Mr. Jackson has been issued on multiple counts of child molestation.

Boom, there's these new allegations.

(helicopter whirs)

And all of this craziness unfolds, I mean, that I see via the news.

Good day, everyone. Pop star Michael Jackson is now under arrest, and, at this hour, is in the custody of a Santa Barbara, California Sheriff's department.

Michael in handcuffs was, uh, painful to see.

Newsman: When Michael Jackson was arrested, his mugshot was taken, he was fingerprinted, he gave up his passport, and he was released on $ million bond.

His lawyer called the charges that could send Jackson away to prison for years a big lie.

If anybody doesn't think, based upon what's happened so far, that the true motivation of these charges and these allegations is anything but money, and the seeking of money, then they're living in their own Neverland.

Newswoman: Jackson faces nine charges total, seven for committing a lewd act on a child under , and two for giving the child an intoxicating agent for the purpose of molestation.

We will land on you like a ton of bricks.

We will land on you like a hammer.

If you do anything to besmirch this man's reputation, we will unleash a legal torrent like you've never seen.

We will demand...

James: Michael called, and I hadn't talked to him in a really long time.

And I had known of the trial, so...

I kind of saw the pattern from before happen again.

He called my parents, and tried to convince them to... testify for him and get involved.

And my dad was very much like, back to, "Let's protect Michael."

Michael could do no wrong in my husband's eyes.

He felt what Michael did for the world made the world happy...

All his songs about peace and love in the world.

That's how my husband saw Michael... the songs he sang.

And he truly believed it.

(singing "Heal the World")

♪ Make a better place for you and for me ♪

Stephanie: I absolutely didn't believe the first time.

It was wrong. It was the father's greed.

And then the second time, I started to question it in my head.

Newswoman: The accuser is reportedly a -year-old boy, befriended by Jackson.

The child is described in reports as having met Jackson through a charity that grants wishes for ill children.

Joy: We didn't know this boy at all.

This was during a period where we really didn't have much to do with Michael.

Once again, I thought, you know, this is a kid who was suffering from cancer, and I thought, defending Michael, this was just another case where Michael's probably paying for all his medical bills, and these people are taking advantage of it.

That information about Gavin's mother, she had been arrested for shoplifting, and she had blamed the security people.

There was a big thing about that.

They spin information against the parents.

I believed it all.

He said that he wanted to show me how to masturbate.

Sheriff: He wanted to show you how to masturbate?

- Sheriff: Okay.
- Gavin: Yeah, and then I said no.

And then he said he could do it for me.


And did he do it for you?

Go ahead, Gavin. It's fine.

He put his hand in my pants.

Did he put it on the outside?

- Inside.
- Inside?

What did he do next?

He started... masturbating me.



I told him I didn't want to do that.

- Did he stop?
- I told him not to.

He kept on doing it.

In the time that I was with Wade... you know, he didn't hear from Michael a whole lot.

Michael all of a sudden started to, um, was starting to communicate with Wade a whole bunch and reaching out to him.

But it was like, everyday.

The first conversation after he was arrested was like... a continuation, like picking right back up from the phone conversations when I was , and the Jordy Chandler investigation was going on.

"Here they are again, trying to take me down.

These evil people."

I would like to thank the fans around the world...

Man: Can you speak up, please?

(chuckles) I would like to thank the fans around the world for your love and your support, from every corner of the Earth.

My family, who's been very supportive.

My brother Randy, who's been incredible.

I wanna thank the community of Santa Maria.

I want you to know that I...

I love the community of Santa Maria very much.

It's my community. I love the people.

I will always love the people. My children were born in this community. My home is in this community.

I will always love this community from the bottom of my heart.

That's why I moved here.
Thank you very much.

Wade: So, I was or at this point, and I really did not wanna go through this again.

I did not wanna testify.

So, at some point, I worked up the courage to tell Michael that I don't wanna testify.

I remember silence on the phone for a while.

He said, "You know, I...

"You know, I understand. I understand it's really hard and it's...

"it's tough to go through this with all of the media and everything.

"Yeah, but, you know, we can't let them do this to us.

We can't let them take us down."

Us, us, us, you know?

I was kind of breaking, like, having a nervous breakdown.

And I didn't wanna be involved.

And so I told my mom... then that he wasn't a good person.

And that, um... I don't want them involved.

So, that was tough.

Stephanie: Jimmy was over, and he said to me, "Michael's an evil man."

And I just said okay.

And... I stood up and I hugged him.

And, "Do you wanna go to... Do you wanna go get help?"

(gasps) "Oh, no, no, Mom! And you can't tell anybody!

You can't... "
He was so afraid that I would tell somebody.

Super scared, like... like a nervous-breakdown scared.

It was a begging sort of,
"You can't tell anybody!"

"I promise that. I promise I won't tell anybody."

And I felt that I had f*cked up so much the first time, that I wasn't the mother that I should've been, guarding him, that he's come to me with this truth that's k*lling him right now, I wasn't gonna tell anybody.

I could be there for him now.

I didn't talk with her really about it.

I couldn't talk about it.

I just said enough to, like, not get them involved.

And she never... pushed.

Newsman: For once in his life, Michael Jackson was not the center of attention, even though this has been a crucial day in his trial.

The focus instead was on the defense's first celebrity witness, the actor Macaulay Culkin.

- (crowd screaming)
- The prosecution had suggested that in the early s, he was one of a number of young boys who'd been sexually abused by Jackson.

Actually, Wade had asked me not to testify, that's how it started.

He came to me and said, "I do not want you to testify this time. I'm not going to either."

And he said, "Just... You know, I don't wanna go through all that again. I've had enough."

I said, "Well, okay, I'm gonna ask you as an adult now."

He was at this point. I said, "I haven't asked you this "for many, many years, since you were a child.

"But I'm gonna ask you one more time, as an adult.

Did Michael ever do anything inappropriate with you?"

And he, once again, looked me in the eye and said, "No. He never did."

I said, "So..."

I said, "I think you need to testify.

This is your friend."

And I said, "I think at this point, "you and Macaulay Culkin are probably "the only two people in the world who can save him.

"And if Michael goes to prison, he won't survive prison, you know that."

Like, I would have dreams and...

Of Michael being in jail and being k*lled in jail, or dying in jail. I mean, just like...

Those two things, Michael Jackson and jail, just did not go together for me.

I mean, I still... loved him deeply, you know?

Newsman: Macaulay Culkin almost single-handedly devastated and shook the foundation of the prosecution's pattern evidence against Michael Jackson.

Newsman : Certainly, if the jury believes Culkin, it will be a significant boost for the defense.

(crowd screaming)

James: And he asked me to testify, and, um, I said no.

And he got really angry at me, and, um, he threatened me.

I had never seen him this angry.

It was like, more like, "Okay, you're enemy now."

He threatened me with his lawyers, and said that I had perjured myself years ago, and that he has the best lawyers in the world and... that they were gonna get me.

(indistinct chatter)

And I just said,

"I don't want any part of it. You'll hear nothing from me. You know, don't worry."

I was just trying to calm him down to get him off the phone.

(crowd screaming)

The last time I talked to him was near the end of the trial.

And he tried again to... He wanted me to testify.

And he, like, went into a spiel about... "I'm sorry I haven't been there for you, "like, for directing and all that stuff.

"Let's do something. I know I haven't been there."

And, uh, I cut the conversation short.

I just said, you know, "Just don't call again," and I hung up.

And that was the last time I spoke to him.

(crowd screaming)

Amanda: Michael, he had been reminding Wade, you know, how Wade could support him and how much he loved him.

He wanted to talk to me, saying, you know, how much he cared about me and how happy I was in Wade's life, and...

Suddenly having a lot of, uh... interest in Wade's life, and how he was doing, and that felt really good to Wade.

And then within... a week or so after that,

I received a subpoena to testify.

(crowd screaming)

Newsman: Reportedly, the grand jury will hear testimony from Jackson's now -year-old accuser.

But it's also been reported that testimony will be heard from Jackson's molestation case, which was settled out of court.

Amanda: I remember asking Wade, "Nothing happened to you, right? Like, you were never...

Like, he never did anything to you, did he?"

I just needed to... just put it out there.

And he assured me, "No. No. Never."

And I believed him.

(chatter, laughter)

Wade: The idea of this truth coming out, and Amanda knowing about it, and my family knowing about it, and everybody in the entertainment business, in my career knowing about it, I mean, was just a ridiculous idea that was never going to happen, in my mind, because, in my mind, my whole life would be over.

If I questioned Michael's... perspective, that he was telling me about Gavin, that I felt like I would, you know, I would break, like, I couldn't be as strong as I needed to be.

(crowd yelling)

Joy: He was worried.

We had had dinner the night before at Neverland, and he was definitely subdued.

Chantal: So, we were at the ranch with all his family.

Michael didn't look well.

He looked very sick.

His kids were there, everybody was there.

Wade: Like, his mind was just in a whole nother place.

I remember... all of us sitting at dinner.

And... Paris, his daughter, just wanting to-to... wanting her dad's attention.

Kind of like, pulling on his arm, and pulling on his fingers, and "Daddy, Daddy, Daddy!"

And he was, I mean, he just, he wasn't there.

I remember that, just feeling really sad.

What if he loses? What if he goes to jail?

You know, and these are the last couple of times that they see their daddy, you know?

Which built my conviction even that much more to, uh, to save him.

I think that definitely helped Wade to go into the... you know, court room feeling, you know, that he wanted to support Michael, and feeling good about that.

(people yelling)

To me, it was like here was his, you know, lifelong friend that just really needed him.

Looking back, I mean, it's horrifying to think about, you know, the... what that experience really represented for Wade.

Love is so powerful.

(crowd yelling)

Wade: And I remember how... white he looked, and his face was really thin, drawn out.

Crowd: Innocent! Innocent! Innocent!

Wade: He looked like a statue.


(yelling continues)

Chantal: I testified, which was hard.

I mean, I think for anybody, being on the stand is just a scary scenario.

Because you feel like lawyers and different are attacking you, and they're saying different things, and... you know, you have this feeling of, like... did I just put my friend in jail?

I was up there for a couple hours.

The whole scenario was intense.

Wade was up for a long time.

Wade: You know, if this didn't go well for Michael, he was gonna go to jail for the rest of his life.

I was going to my grave with that truth, of the sexual stuff that happened between Michael and I.

There was no way in hell

I was ever telling anybody in the universe.

And that was... period.

Choreographer Wade Robson acknowledged sharing a bed with the singer many times when he was a child, but he denied ever being molested.

Newsman: "Did Mr. Jackson ever molest you at any time," the defense lawyer asked.

"No, never," Wade Robson replied.

That contradicts testimony from a former Michael Jackson maid, who'd said she'd seen the singer showering with the boy.

We've seen a parade of witnesses saying Michael Jackson's not a good guy, this is what I saw him do.

If you can get one or two or three people on that stand who say, "They were talking about me.

It never happened," very powerful.

Crowd: Innocent! Innocent! Innocent!

Juror: We the jury in the above entitled case find the defendant not guilty of a lewd act upon a minor child.

Count four verdict: not guilty.

Count five verdict: not guilty.

(crowd screaming)

Newsman: And there it is, all counts.

Not guilty on all counts.

Michael Jackson will be walking out of this courtroom a free man.

Man: Michael's innocent! Michael's innocent!

A jury of decided the outcome of this trial.

Using the standard of reasonable doubt, they rendered a verdict that was based on the facts and evidence and within the guidelines of the law.

We expected probably better evidence, you know, something that was a little more convincing.

We just couldn't abide the story of the mother for one.

I disliked it intensely when she snapped her fingers at us.

That's when I thought, "Don't snap your fingers at me, lady."


I feel that, uh, Michael Jackson probably has molested boys.

After some of the testimony was offered, I can't believe that, that this man could sleep in the same bedroom for straight days, uh, and not do something more than just watch television and eat popcorn.

(crowd yelling)

Wade: Yeah, like, I can't imagine if I was Gavin, or if I was Jordy at that time.

You know, no-no justice... (sniffles) being served, and not being believed by so many people.

For Gavin, I wish I... was at a place where

I could tell the truth and... be a comrade with him.

You know, stopping Michael and stopping a lot of other kids from being abused.

I just wasn't ready.

I wasn't able, when I was , and when I was .

And I remember feeling happy, for sure, that he was acquitted, that he wasn't going to jail.

I didn't believe or understand that the sexual stuff that happened between Michael and I was abuse.

I didn't feel like I was hurt by it.

That it was anything bad that happened to me.

At that point, it was...

I loved Michael. Michael loved me.

This was something that happened between us, that's it.

But I still had absolutely no understanding that I was affected.

Or any feeling that I was affected negatively.

In other news, could Michael Jackson be planning a comeback right here in Las Vegas?

Lately, he has been hiding out overseas, making no public appearances at all, until, that is, Christmas Eve, when he suddenly showed up here at Caesar's Palace, out of the blue, and began doing holiday shopping with his kids.

Wade: I was in Vegas for... maybe about six months, and I was choreographing a Cirque Du Soleil show.

And at that point, Michael was living in Vegas with his kids.

(dancers shouting)

I wanted him to come see the show, and I asked him to write some words for the dancers in the show, some words of inspiration before opening night and...

And one of the things he kept... asking as we were planning getting together was,

"You know, make sure... you're gonna bring some wine? Yeah?"

So, this was a new dynamic, which I liked as well 'cause I, you know, me trying to have this kind of normal experience with him.

Like, wow, cool. I'll be able to sit there with Michael and have a glass of wine and...talk about real stuff and, you know.

Amanda and I go to the grocery store and get hot dogs and all that kind of stuff, and couple bottle of wines and... and go to the house.

And so, it's Michael and the three kids.

You know, once we got in, one of the first things he asked was, "Did you bring the wine?"

We had some, um, those sort of larger red plastic cups and he grabbed one of those and just filled one up to the brim, you know, with white wine, and just chugged it down, and then he kept going back and was filling it up and...

So, I mean, this was my first experience of ever seeing him drink at all.

It was nice, and we would cr*ck some jokes.

There was still that feeling of kind of reminiscing about our relationship from the past.

We watched a movie with the kids.

You know, he just kept... kept drinking.

And then at some point, we're getting kind of into the evening, Michael says, "I'm gonna go upstairs for a second."

Thirty minutes goes by, an hour goes by, um, you know, nothing from Michael, he never comes back down.

Probably an hour, hour and a half, and we're just there with the kids, and it's getting late now.

It's like , or something like that.

So, Amanda and I are like, "What do we...?" (chuckles)

You know, "What do we do?"

And I remember asking the kids, like, Do you wanna go check on... on your dad, if he's okay?"

And they were just sort of like, "Nah. He's fine."

Like it was, I mean, it was noth...

It seemed like it was nothing out of the ordinary for them.

And that was the last time I saw him.

We're getting some breaking news coming into the Situation Room right now.

- What are we picking up?
- Apparently, Michael Jackson suffered cardiac arrest this afternoon.

He was rushed to UCLA Medical Center.

Blitzer: CNN sources are now saying, multiple sources, that Michael Jackson is in a coma.

Newsman: You see the number of people that have already gathered outside the hospital.

If that isn't testament to the star power of Michael Jackson, I don't know what is.

Wade: I was in my house.

I was working on some choreography for a show.

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

And I believe it was a friend of mine who texted me and said, "Turn on the news. Now."

I think the first image I saw was the paramedics that were carrying Michael to the hospital.

You know, that Michael had had some sort of cardiac arrest or something like that.

Blitzer: And we're just getting this in right now, and it's very, very sad news, Jim Moret and to all of our viewers.

Both the Los Angeles Times and CBS News are both now reporting that Michael Jackson has d*ed.

CNN can now confirm from the LA Coroner that Michael Jackson is d*ad.

Newswoman: Jackson appeared to have suffered from cardiac arrest.

He was years old.

Crowd: Michael! Michael! Michael...

Chantal: It's not like I just got a call from my friend's mother to tell me that my friend d*ed.

You know, you're watching it, like, on a newscast.

You know, just a whole different way of finding out that somebody you know d*ed, and I'm a mess.

- Are you serious?
- Newswoman: Yeah, no, he d*ed of a heart att*ck tonight in LA.

- Man: A heart att*ck!?
- (sobbing)

Chantal: So much of my story, so much of my life, has been him, you know, I came to America.

Like, everything, and he's been such a big part of our life... then all of sudden, just gone.

Wade: I guess you'd call it being in shock.

I mean, just being... numb and not believing.

James: I was at work, and I think a friend of mine texted.

Said, "I'm sorry," and I was like, for what?

And then I looked on the news and saw it and...

I was sad.

My first reaction was being really sad.

It's like we would never be friends again.

I'd never know him again.

I danced when I heard that he d*ed.

I was laying in bed. The news came on.

I got out of bed and I was, "Oh, thank God. He can't hurt anymore children."

Those were my thoughts, and I danced.

He can't hurt anymore children!

(sighs) I was so happy he d*ed.

I had a jacket that Michael had given me.

I curled up in bed with the jacket for a week.

I could not believe it.

It was like, it was losing a family member.

We had loved him for a long time.

We'd been friends with him for over years.

It was hard to accept.

Chantal: You know, you drive in the car, and you hear their music and you cry.

It's all around you all the time, so you grieve for multiple days, you know, and you have beautiful moments where you remember beautiful memories of being at the ranch and all these great things and remembering him as a beautiful person, but then also being... feeling really sad.

Wade: I didn't know how to feel.

I just kind of started going for walks around the neighborhood.

And, you know, people are trying to call me like crazy, and get in contact with me, and I didn't wanna talk to anybody.

I didn't wanna talk to my mother, I didn't wanna talk to anyone.

Amanda: I remember him just sitting on curbs and just being really incredibly emotional.

A lot of... yeah, a lot of, like, curling up and crying.

Wade: And the press inquiries were coming through my agents and... and it got to the point where they finally said to me,

"Listen, you gotta do a statement."

So, I remember going to... a sort of park in Santa Monica to sit down and try and...figure out what I wanted to say.

It was extremely loving and grateful for Michael in my life, and talking about he's the reason I dance, the reason I make music, and ending with, you know, "I'll never stop missing him, but..." You know, "Now, he's..."

Something along the lines of, "Now, he's," uh...

"blessing the heavens with a melody and a moonwalk."

Something like that.

Joe Jackson: He tried his hard to please everybody.

The sick, he donates so much money to the sick.

He helped the blind. He helped... everybody that needed help, and he was glad to do it.

I've seen Michael help so many people, and sometimes, he would go and cry about it because he felt sorry for the people that he was helping.

James: Michael had a lot of great attributes, and he was great in a lot of ways, and you loved him in a lot of ways.

And then...you know, Michael does these things to you that are not healthy, but you still have... um, you still have love for him.

So, it's really hard to... have those two feelings together.

I still today... am grappling with that.

(helicopter whirring)

Newsman: It is estimated that before it's over, this will be viewed by between million to a billion people around the world.

Chantal: We were contacted to come to the funeral.

You know, we went to the big funeral at the Staples Center.

♪ We are the world ♪

♪ We are the children ♪

♪ We are the ones who make the brighter place ♪

♪ So let's start giving ♪

♪ Let's start giving ♪

Wade: I mean, that was a surreal experience.

I mean, not your average memorial or funeral.

♪ It's true, we make a better... ♪

You know, musical performances and... (sniffles)

Michael's image up on the massive screen.

Chantal: You know, at first it felt like, oh, this is a big hoopla.

But it actually was really nice, respectful, you know.

The fans, everybody, were quiet.

It actually felt like a ceremony and... it was very emotional for all of us that were there.

Joy: Wade sobbed at the memorial service like I've never heard him sob.

He put his head in his hands, and actually sobbed and sobbed.

He didn't do that when his father d*ed.

That's the last time I remember crying about him being d*ad.

And then, I went back to work.

I mean...


I went back to work, full pelt.

Wade: Left right, left right, left right...

Step! Step!

You know, it was a new phase in my career in, kind of, choreography and stage directing.

(indistinct chatter)

Clap! Clap!

Amanda and I were married now.

We were starting to work together a bit, creatively.

The phones are ringing! Like, say yes, yes! You know, work begets work.

Like this is time to explode. This is what you've been working for.

But he'd be in the adrenaline of a job, and it was always followed by lulls of depression.

Wade: You know, I'm just a perfectionist, and...

I just was never really able to enjoy my work.

It wasn't fun, and the more success I gained, the less fun it became.

It was just more about pressure.

Amanda: And he went through this really dark, sort of sad, lonely... a depression, in a way.

I don't know what's going on. I think I'm gonna have a heart att*ck or something.

Chantal: He was freaking out.

He was so afraid that whatever decision he made was gonna be the wrong one.

"I've gotta stop, like... I can't go through this and not figure out what's wrong."

So, we were all struggling, trying to find out what all this was about.

Wade: Amanda is so clear about how she felt about everything, and could communicate it, and I just couldn't.

I would be sad, I would get angry, and I just...

And she would ask me what's wrong, and I would just say I don't know.

Amanda: We had been working a ton, traveling a lot, doing lots of exciting work, and...

I remember telling myself, you know, when I can't think of anything but becoming a mom, that will be the time that, you know, we think about starting a family.

And Koa arrived on this Earth, November th, .

Wade: I just entered this state of absolute euphoria, thinking, like, this is the most important job I've ever had, being a father.

Koa's birth was, um, directly aligned with, uh, Wade receiving, um, his dream job opportunity.

You know, Michael had always prophesied to Wade that he would be a film director, like Steven Spielberg film director, that that's what he was working towards.

You know, so these are kind of two really, uh, intense life happenings at the same time.

Becoming a father and getting my first gig as a feature film director.

Amanda: The demands of the film started to become more apparent.

It was a big budget film, and there's a lot of people looking for answers from him, in reference to story, in reference to, you know, production.

And fatherhood was also on his plate.

I stopped being able to sleep at all.

Lying in bed for eight, nine hours, staring at the walls.

Stressed and anxiety and fears beyond belief.

It gets to the point where I'm barely operating.

I remove myself from the film.
I remove myself from any work.

I disappeared from the world.

You know, agents, managers, "Don't call me."

I was barely talking to my family.

Amanda: Whatever was going on inside of him, I mean, it was relentless.

James: They say time heals all wounds, but that...

I don't think time heals this one.

It just gets worse.

You can't talk to anybody about it. You don't...

You don't get advice or a perspective.

You're stuck... keeping a secret, and then...

So, you don't ever...

You don't ever figure it out. You're just stuck.

I could see he was having a rough time, just with his body language, and I...

"Do you... Honey, do you want to go to a psychiatrist?"

"No!" That was an absolute no.


He just wouldn't talk.
He wouldn't open up.

Jimmy wouldn't, was... He was different.

It's fine for brief moments, but when you spend years like that, and you don't sleep well... you kind of go crazy.

Laura: When Cillian was born, he had a little bit of a breakdown.

And again, me being me, I thought, "Well, this must happen to dads when they have their first kid.

It just makes people feel scared," and I understood, and...

I-I know I'm probably sounding incredibly naive, but some of the things he did and didn't do, I just attributed to... this is our life.

This is, you know, he sleeps an awful lot, and so I'll stay up and I'll take care of the kids, or, you know, he can't be around the friends and the schools the way I am, so I'll do that.

It was sort of survival mode, I guess, is a good way to put it.

It was like, this is our scenario, and we love each other, so we're gonna work around whatever this is.

I think the... abuse symptoms intensify when you have kids.

Like, it ramps up even more.

And then you see how, like, innocent kids are.

I think having kids... kind of shoves that in your face.

He's getting closer to the age I was when I was abused.

So, that is difficult to deal with and see...

Watch him kind of become you at that age.

Wade: Found a therapist.

Trying to figure out what the hell was wrong with me. I went through the story of my life, and I went through the... story of my life with Michael, but just... the good parts, just the creative inspiration, and the work, and friendship, and all of that stuff.

And I was saying things at this point, like, to Amanda, "I don't know... I don't know who I am.

"Like, I don't know what I want.

"I don't know left from right.

"All I know is you and Koa.

Like, that's all that makes any sense to me."

It was so incredibly frightening,

'cause for him to just sit still... he was just terr...

There was just terror in his eyes, all the time.

I would tell myself, like, on our porch, like, "Just keep it together," like, "It's gonna be okay.

We're gonna... He's gonna be okay. We're gonna figure this out."

Wade: So, at this point, Koa is about... a year and a half.

I start to...have these images of... the kind of sexual stuff that happened between Michael and I happening to Koa.

And seeing...

(voice breaking): Michael doing it to Koa, what he did to me.

And my immediate...


emotional, uh, reaction to-to having those images is just this, uh, rage and... disgust and... you know, violent feeling.

Like, I would k*ll anyone who did anything like that to Koa.

What I started thinking was...you know, how... how can I have such... clear feelings, negative, horrible feelings about the idea of that sexual stuff happening to Koa, but when I think about Michael and I, and all of that sexual stuff going on... (sniffles)

I don't... I don't feel anything.

That's probably kind of weird.

And I start thinking, you know, if I'm gonna go into therapy and try and really get to the bottom of whatever the hell is going on with me, I probably have to talk about the sexual stuff that went on.

I go in for a session with Dr. Shaw.

"You know, all the stuff about, um...

"all the allegations, and, like, Michael Jackson...

"molesting kids and all that stuff, um...

"It was, uh... It was true. It happened to me."

Amanda: There were little things that we would try and do and look forward to.

Dinners or something, you know, to try and put on a happy face, and to, like, look forward to something, instead of, like, the dread and fear of... our reality.

Shane: Wade and Amanda were living in Santa Monica, and food trucks were, like, the big thing in LA at the time.

And I spoke with Erica, my wife, on the phone as I'm driving there.

And she, uh, she says, uh...

"I gotta tell you about a crazy, crazy dream I had last night."

Uh... Wade had told her that Michael Jackson had abused him.

Uh, she said it was so real, she woke up from the dream actually crying about it.

My brother and Amanda go and walk towards the food trucks, and we're waiting for some food, and we're just chatting, and my brother... comes out of nowhere and says, uh,

"You know, my wife had this crazy dream."

Like, my first instinct when he said that was to... cr*ck a joke.

And a joke that had sort of become kind of standard for me, which was, you know, "Yeah, man. I don't know. I mean, if it... was true, "I don't know why I wasn't sexy enough.

Like, what was wrong with me?"

And that was my instinct, to kind of go right to that joke.

But I just couldn't, I couldn't this time.

I mean, this was, like, just an hour and a half ago that I had told Dr. Shaw for the first time.

So, my head just dropped.

And then I just kind of, I just looked up and said, "It is true."

And, um, and I'm looking at him, and I'm like, is he telling me a joke or something right now?

And I'm like, "What do you mean?"

And all sorts of things are going through my head, like the amount of years that, you know, he's defended this guy.


(voice breaking): I remember, uh, Amanda...

(sobs softly)

was, uh, was on my left, and I remember, physically, she just, um... she just caved in, like someone punched her in the chest.

(sobbing softly)

And my brother sort of had the opposite physical reaction.

Like, his chest kind of puffed out.

He got... angry.

I think his first word was, "What?"

There was a real kind of anger in his eyes.

The... It's like the world was, kind of like spinning, and all I could see was Chantal was holding Koa.

So, it's like a blur, and I just honed in on Koa, and I needed to hold him.

And then they come over to me, and as soon as they come to the table, Shane turns to me, and he says,

"Wade, tell Chantal what you just told us."

My sister's always been the one in my life who's... more emotional, like much more readily available, wears her heart on her sleeve.

And I remember the look in her eyes and just, um... her just staring at me, and just tears, you know.

I was hurt and angry for Wade.

I was upset for myself and my relationship that I had, and then I was really scared for my mom.

I was afraid that my mom would commit su1c1de.


'Cause it's not like it was uncommon for me.


But I was afraid that my mom would do something to herself, because of the shame of, you know, her not knowing or... you know. (sniffles)

It's like this was the...

The story that I had been telling all these years...


the lies that I had been telling about, you know, that none of this sexual stuff ever happened, like, that was... that story... that version of the story was the... the whole foundation of my life, and my sister's, and my brother's life.

I mean, like, my whole life with Michael is the reason... my family split apart, and we moved to America, and, you know, like, it's all wrapped up in that.

And now it's like this whole...the whole foundation of this story was bullshit, you know?

Amanda: But there's a child.

The fact that I needed to take care of him, whatever he needed next, got us home.

And now it's my and Wade's first time alone.

(crickets chirping)

And he's like, "Do you wanna ask me anything?"

And I... And I said, "Are you confused?

Like is there any confusion as to like how...

What is like appropriate to how you love Koa?"

And Wade was like, "Absolutely not."

I had no knowledge of child sexual abuse, or the, um, psychological way it plays out into adulthood.

You know, I was incredibly naive on the subject.

So, to me, you know, the fact that he had... had lied about it to me,

I thought the repercussions must be something that... affected...

That he was scared of in relation to me, or to us, or his...
I don't know.

It's like I... I used to be the person that said... you know, "Oh, that person's after money, or they're trying to bring Michael down, and he's famous."

And I was the person that said all that.

You know, and then now being on the other side of it... you know, now I understand why people are saying that to me, but at the same time, it's like... you know, I'm awake now.

It's like I see the reality, and I see the truth, and I, you know, the pattern of what happened, and-and that it happened to my brother.

But I feel so bad for every little boy prior that tried to talk, and got shut up really fast.

Lorraine: It's so hard to believe that he would do that to a little boy, someone as beautiful and talented as Wade was.

It's just overwhelming to think that.

He's ruined, here, a lot of lives, a lot of lives.

What began to happen was just this... (sighs) emotional, like, upheaval that was just... all of these... anger and sadness and... you know, back and forth, all over the place, unpredictable.

I mean, just coming out of me constantly.


After about... two weeks after I first told Dr. Shaw, I, uh, I told Mom I wanted her to come into a therapy session with me.

I didn't tell her why.

I spent minutes with the therapist first, just to have a chat, talk about things.

So then... after minutes, Wade joined us, and we sat together on the couch, and... he turned to me and said... that Michael Jackson had abused him from age seven to .

Uh... It was like being h*t by a truck.

I really didn't know.

I remember her just...

I mean, just... tears streaming down her face instantly, and this kind of collapse in her body, and then she just... kind of reached out to grab me and she...

The first thing she said was, "How could you not... "How could you not have told me?

How could you not have told me?"

That's a real complicated question.

You know, I couldn't...

I couldn't answer that question.

I held him and held him. We sobbed together.

And I said, "Well, I have to take some... "of the blame for this.

I am your mother, and I didn't protect you."

And that's what he wanted to hear, apparently.

I couldn't really... I don't know,

I couldn't really hug her yet.

I mean, I just...

Very beginning for me and very confused about, uh... just my relationship with, with Mom.

I was angry... at my mom.

I was angry at my mom before that.

I was angry for her breaking up the family, to start with, for this whole...

Michael Jackson nonsense.

Like, I don't care who some guy is, how do you leave your seven-year-old or eight-year-old kid to have sleepovers at their house?

I mean, that's just f*cking crazy.

Like, as a parent, I don't understand how that is even possible.

For five months after that, Amanda wouldn't allow me into their home.

Wade and I would meet so that I could see Koa.

We'd have to meet in a park.

I was so hurt. I was so...

I'd always had such a great relationship with Amanda and all my family.

I've never had anything like this happen.

That was the hardest thing for me to deal with.

And I thought she blamed me.

Now, I'm hearing stories about what was done to his young body, with his mom... close by, in-in another room.

Me being a young mom, you know, and my just, you know, how could you ever let your young child sleep in the bed of a stranger?

You know, I just couldn't comprehend it.

Wade and I met... and... he said there's things that he needed to say to me.

He told me... that he felt no emotion for me.

(voice breaking): As a mother, that's like, the last thing you wanna hear from your child.

He said he had no... had no feelings for me.

You know, I remember asking her, like, "How did you not know?"

You know, and she just kept saying, "I don't know.

"I don't know. I don't know how I didn't know.

"You don't think...

"that I wish I knew? You know, that I... that I wish I didn't see this?" You know.

But it's changed, it affected everyone's lives.

My family's life, the anger from my family in Australia, and... the anger from my family towards my mother, like... it goes so deep.

Lorraine: She did everything she could.

She turned her life upside down... even her marriage.

She had turned everything upside down because of Michael.

(sighs) It's not easy to accept, even at this stage.

The... The abuse... was a b*mb that dropped in our life and exploded, like, you know, and ripped apart everything that we found sound and secure and safe.

Laura: Of course, I want James to be happy and feel better, but I don't always know how to get him there.

A few things had happened, um, that just, sort of, sent him on a spiral.

His father got sick, work got very challenging.

All these things were coming together, and, um, he just... he went some place else. He went to a dark place.

He started drinking a lot.
He started going out at night.

Um, he wouldn't come home.

During that time was the first time we were really fighting.

I didn't understand what was going on at all.

That was the first time we ever talked about, you know, this isn't a relationship right now.

Is this heading towards divorce? I mean, that was the first time we ever talked about things like that.

James: I had, like, a lot of self-hatred, and I didn't know why.

And you're not putting it on him.

You're putting it on yourself.

You think it's your doing.

That's part of the manipulation.

People, they might look at me and see a grownup, but you... need to see

we're ment*lly little kids.

We've just gotten... just gotten older.

Good morning. Good to see you.

You know that the things you're gonna say here this morning,and perhaps in a court of law,are gonna get a lot of attention, make a lot of headlines.

So, before I ask you specifics, what's your mindset right now?

What's my mindset. Um...

I feel strong. I feel...

like this is the right thing to do,

- 'cause this is my truth.
- Despite what some people

- may say after you say these things?
- Yes.

I had to defend the lie, you know, for so many years.

And I didn't wanna do that anymore.

You know, I was just trying to declare this whole new life for myself, based on the truth.

Let me take you back to , Wade, all right, the child molestation trial of Michael Jackson.

You were the first witness called by the defense, and the attorney for Michael Jackson said he called you first because you were so convincing and powerful, asserting the innocence of Michael Jackson.

And here we are these years later, and you're going to say

- just the opposite.
- Wade: Right.

- Lauer: What happened?
- (crowd screaming)

First of all, one thing I wanna clear up is that this is not a case of repressed memory.

- Which has been reported in the press.
- Yeah.

I never forgot one moment of what Michael did to me.

But I was psychologically and emotionally completely unable and unwilling to understand that it was sexual abuse.

So, what are you alleging that he actually did?

He sexually abused me from seven years old until .

And even though there's lots of... parts of it that are still... scary and uncomfortable, um, to talk about these sort of things, and talk about these sexual details and this... crazy stuff that happened between Michael and I... it still feels a whole lot better than... than the lie did.

You have these symptoms, and then you find out that somebody else has them and...and then they went through something that you went through.

I really just wanted to talk to Wade 'cause...you feel so alone.

I think I told my wife after Wade... came out, maybe a few weeks after.

Telling her was... like, no going back.

At that point in time, we had a computer in our bedroom, and I was working late at night.

And he was sitting at the edge of the bed, just waiting for me to finish, which was not like him.

And I, you know, was working, working, working. He's like,

"Can you please just stop?" And he sounded so irritated with me.

I was like, you know, what the heck?

I turn off the computer, and I turned around, and that's when I saw how serious and sad his face was.

And he said, "Laura, I have to tell you something."

And he just said, "Bad things have happened.

You know, Michael wasn't... He wasn't a good guy." And...he just clearly was a ball of emotions, and, um, and I was scared.

It was just like a punch in the chest.

You're not positive it's the right decision... and then thinking that that action's gonna ruin your life... is... I can... I don't know.

I can't even, I can't describe how scary it is.

It wasn't a heavy, long conversation.

It was a cry.

He sort of just... we gave each other a hug, and he showed me Wade's interview, and he just sort of cried and...

He didn't go into much detail then.

It was just more of this like...

Oh, wow. Our life just got heavy.

It still feels shameful.

I still have... feelings that it was... like, my fault.

Announcer: And now, TMZ breaks the news to pop star Omarion that Wade Robson is suing Michael Jackson for child sex abuse!

- What?
- Interviewer: Yes.

He's suing Mike?

- Yes.
- MJ? The person that's d*ad?

Announcer: All of the above, actually!

He said Michael never touched me, but, yes, I slept in his bed, by myself with him, and he was in his s, I was seven.

He should sue his mom for letting him go sleep with Michael Jackson when he's seven years old.

Wade Robson, I put him on as my witness and he was subjected to a withering cross-examination by prosecutor Ron Zonen from the Santa Barbara District Attorney's Office.

I mean, Ron went after him, and Ron's a good prosecutor.

He would not waver. He was adamant he was never touched.

And my understanding was Safechuck repeatedly said the same thing.

So, to suddenly come back years later, and say we want millions of dollars, we were brainwashed, we had repressed memory, we didn't face the facts, we didn't deal with reality...

I just find very, very suspicious.

The story just keeps changing.

His story keeps changing.

I have really f*cking had it with you, dude.

f*ck you.

f*ck you to f*cking hell.

f*ck you, Wade!

f*ck, I hate you so much!

Amanda: The die-hard Michael fans, some of them are... very, um... hateful.

It's been scary for me, as a mom, with our child.

You know, in regard to the, the threats that come from... that Wade receives.

I'm not gonna lie and say that that's not hard... to see and to hear and to feel, um, people not believing me, and people thinking that it's all about the money, about nothing but the money.

Newsreader : A judge has dismissed a choreographer's claim that Michael Jackson molested him as a child.

Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Mitchel Becklov dismissed Wade Robson's claim on Tuesday, after determining he waited too long to file it in court.

Newsreader : He did not rule on the credibility of Robson's allegations themselves.

Man: This is where they officially threw out his case.

(mocking laughter)

These people don't even know Michael.

They know Michael Jackson, the amazing musician, and the amazing superstar.

I'm not taking anything away from Michael's talent as a superstar.

But as a man, as a human being, he's hurt people.

And those people that he's hurt should have a chance to talk about it, and they should be allowed to be okay.

The way that I understand it, it's very common for this type of abuse to be registered later in life.

That when you're that small and that hurt, you don't even understand what's happened to you.

So, I mean, we can't change it.

Michael's gone, but it doesn't change the fact that he destroyed these people, and that the world still goes on loving him.

James: He had so many good parts about him.

People think his music's great, so he's great.

And people grew up with him, too, 'cause he was a star since he was a little kid.

So, to think that that person is doing the worst possible things to kids... you know, that's tough, I think, for people to... wrap their heads around.

I didn't protect my son.

That will always, always haunt me.

I had one job. I had one child.

And I had one job.

And I f*cked up.

So, I had all these months of loving my life with Michael, and traveling, and living the good life, so to speak, all those wonderful memories... it was all based on, um, the suffering of my son.

My son had to suffer for me to have this life.

My son is messed up today because of it.

And I'm messed up today because of it.

So you keep secrets and secrets, and secrets k*ll you.

And everything's been a secret... and finally, can say something.

Joy: I don't wanna know too much about what went on.

I don't wanna have that discussion with him because that would give me nightmares.

I don't wanna hear that, so I have not really had a discussion about the sexual side of it.

I don't know what else I could've done, but whatever it is, I wish I had.

I don't know if I'll ever really fully forgive her to what happened to the family and what happened to Wade.

Um, I still love her and all.

You know, still support her as much as I can, but... there's some things that I don't know if you...

I don't know if I can forgive.

Amanda: I don't know how many there are that Michael abused, but you can only imagine what the power that he had and the influence that he had.

We, like, the public knows how many children were there.

And then there's all the children that we don't know about.

Wade: If my story of abuse with Michael and... and all of the ways that it affected me... if speaking that truth, other survivors of child sexual abuse, at the hands of anybody, could be helped in any way, shape or form, by me coming forward and speaking it, I wanted to be able to do that.

I wanna be able to speak the truth... as loud as I had to speak the lie for so long.

Joy: It's just the fame, the whole thing, you do get caught up in it.

Maybe I can forgive him, at some point, if I tried to understand that he was sick... but forgiving myself is another thing.

I don't know if I will ever do that.

Stephanie: He took my son's childhood away.

He took the man he could've been away.

He was a pedophile.

You know, the word says it all: pedophile.

James: I think they thought they were doing the right thing, and he's the biggest star, and he's gonna...

"I'm gonna help your son, and...

"You're son's amazing, and I'm gonna be there for him."

It's all a big seduction.

So, do I blame them?

I'm still working on it. (chuckles)
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