Hello, I am Dave Filoni, executive producer of Star Wars Rebels.
And I'm Bonnie Wild, the sound editor and re-recording mixer at Skywalker Ranch.
Also on Star Wars Rebels.
Also on Star Wars Rebels.
So, I don't even know... where it occurred to me to do this thing with these voices, but I was interested in trying to... tie all of the films together in some way.
And I was trying to build this bigger concept of what the Force is, and how it works, not necessarily what the space is, but just all the ideas of the Force that George had created over the years with things he had taught me on Clone Wars, and give Ezra some really... kind of transcendent experience... something that would make the audience feel like they're getting some big answer to what the Force is, or that you would feel more what the Force is.
So really, these images, I think, play at things that I imagined growing up as a Star Wars fan, that I imagined as some big connective universe... and it's all derived from things that I was inspired by as a kid derived from things that I was inspired by as a kid when it's more of a magic time and a time of wonder in your life, and that's what, in some ways, the world between worlds is really trying to capture.
And sound would play an instrumental role in this whole episode.
Yeah, we really tried to put them in that space.
And we had them, like, moving around, didn't we?
Mmm-hmm. And everything was kind of...
We weren't so concerned with clarity more than how it would make you... feel emotionally about hearing these...
Hearing the voices in that space.
And then contrasting that completely bizarre space, you have this rather normal situation of an Imperial interrogation, but I wanted to play it in a way that we hadn't seen before.
So it's not really torturous physically, it's more of a mental game between Hydan here and Sabine.
And somebody that wants to pretend that they're in a like mind is Sabine, as far as being an artist.
And Hydan plays a long game, played by Malcolm McDowell, of trying to break down Sabine's confidence, her faith in her friends, her belief that Ezra's going to be all right.
He's trying to undermine her will and her confidence, to get out of her information because he knows that she helped Ezra, or assumes that she must have been involved in helping Ezra to open the gateway.
And she alludes to as much in her conversation with him.
But it was a fun series of scenes to write because really Sabine, I think, you know, mentally out-duels Hydan.
He underestimates her in this situation.
She's been through so much at this point, and it becomes a part of the step for Sabine on her journey to becoming a different type of character, more of a leader, which you see followed through in the finale, somebody that uses her mind even more than her skills with a w*apon, you know, finding ways to outwit her opponents as opposed to physically overpower her opponents.
Not that she couldn't in this situation, she obviously could.
And you see here all the different designs and images from different Jedi Temples in there behind Sabine in the Mortis constellation painting.
So tying all these ideas together from Clone Wars and Rebels all into one bigger mythology.
And these very real-world situations, that our heroes here don't really understand, set up this bigger journey into where Ezra is, which now sound became a key element, which is, we hear all these voices in this next scene.
Yeah. This was...
This was a thing, right?
Yeah. A lot of these came through, that you had picked out, Dave, in here. Mmm-hmm.
And then actually in the mix we added, we added more, we took some out that maybe we didn't feel were so appropriate.
But, again, in here we weren't too concerned with clarity, in having the viewer hear distinctly everything that was being said.
It was more that there was...
There was so much that he could...
That he could hear so much calling to him in this space from, like, all different places, and really just echoing around that world between worlds.
In its original version, I actually had him looking through portals and seeing all kinds of events happening, things he wouldn't understand, but it's one of those times where limitations really, I think, benefited us, and the mystery of it being just the voices played more powerfully than any images we could create.
And then really, the first visual you get is this owl, and the first experience with connecting to another world, or another time, is through this portal.
And this bit was cool, sound-wise here, as we have the kind of the reveal for Vader and Ahsoka.
We went back to the Season 2 finale here... and we took all the sound elements that we used for that battle with Vader and Ahsoka, and we brought them into this episode... so it's kind of a real...
It doesn't even feel like a flashback, it was just going back into that moment in time.
Yeah, that was a big jump.
When Steward Lee and I talked about this, Stew was up site directing.
You know, we wanted to be sure that it felt real to, you know, the situation that was happening with Ahsoka, that it felt real to the time length that was happening for her escape, it all had to feel like we're literally seeing a part of the episode that we never got to see before.
And having the sound tied together really played well.
I remember originally we had the original music score in there, too.
But in the end it was a little more visceral to just have the sound design visceral to just have the sound design...
Yeah. It definitely made it... Cut through clearly.
...more real. It was cool.
And when you're doing a scene like this, I mean, what are your considerations as far as...
I think the audience would obviously see the big story implications in a scene like the world between worlds, but what about in a situation like this?
I think it's like you were talking about, like, this is the real world.
So, to make this space feel real, and to have everything, like, you're really grounded in here, there's nothing to...
There's nothing, kind of... There's no gray area here.
Mmm-hmm. We're definitely in reality, and it was kind of...
Just really with Sabine here, I think.
I love her in this. She's got such attitude.
I know that, I like to carve out a lot of space for sound, and I think people think sound may be encompassing mainly music, but Star Wars has a lot of very distinct sounds, sound designs, sound effects, just the hologram, and the hologram, you know, fritzing and futzing, can give a real mood, like there, when the troopers walk through the hologram.
The way it phases adds a certain characterization to their attitude, you know, to Sabine.
So I always love that kind of stuff.
Yeah, and we do use, you know, we use the legacy library, we use the Clone Wars library.
Obviously we've built up a library doing Rebels.
So everything puts you in the Star Wars universe, like audibly.
The sounds are, in some ways, the most authentic piece of Star Wars, if you think about it, genre to genre, movie to film, you know, TV show.
They're the one thing that's true across the board.
Like, I imagine the Ghost's actual sounds are in Rogue One...
Yeah. Just like they're in our show.
Chopper's real sounds are in Rogue One.
I've been told that, you know, Clone Wars actually added a huge library for all Star Wars, not just that series, but...
Yeah, I know it's massive, it's part of what we used for the episodes.
This is where we did some of the most... fun designing with the voices because... you remember, we laid in, we didn't have in the first viewing... the daughter saying "I am daughter" underneath the owl.
Yes. And we didn't have Vader saying those two lines that he does underneath Ahsoka.
And that was designed.
Once I saw what Bonnie was doing with the soundscape of this sequence, I thought, well, maybe that's what's going through her mind.
Maybe that's what... And only she hears those things, Ezra doesn't hear those things because they're specific to what she's thinking and feeling.
"You don't know the power of the dark side."
"I must obey my master."
Like, those things echoing through truly to just Ahsoka.
So, that was a lot of fun once we started dropping in a line here and a line there.
And in fact, in the original version of this episode, there wasn't any lengthy sequence with Kanan and his voice or any of that.
That was something I added late.
We can talk about that when we get to it, but...
Yes.
Yeah, a lot of interesting dialogue laid in here.
And then back to harsh reality.
I think here it's mainly just sounds.
Yeah, I think as we cut back here, yeah, we've got the troopers walking around, which I like because it's a real contrast between
Ezra's state of mind and just like the actual planning and action that's going on here.
The surreal world and the real world.
There was a lot more scenes for this whole thing.
I remember writing versions of this and how I tried to convey what Hera was trying to do and the details of it versus what wound up in the final version.
But you only have so much time.
So I had to keep cutting stuff down, you know.
And that's the only sh*t you get of that big machine, that foreshadows what happens in the end with Chopper.
In the end, yeah.
Did you do anything for the stepping?
Yeah, we have the steps so, steps as well we've seen in previous episodes when it's the wolf in that. Oh, that's right.
Yeah. Oh, that's right.
So everything always calls back.
See, there's a little thing I put up there, if people notice it.
The creatures from episode eight.
Is it the fathier at the back?
Yeah, the fathier. I put that in there for Rian.
Because I had been out visiting and seen his creatures.
They're actually on either side of a doorway earlier... as a nod to him.
There are ways those who have passed on may still guide or influence the living.
It's not impossible.
But if it was Kanan...
And that wolf constellation actually just happened to be there in the sky at the...
It wasn't even pre-planned.
Because this whole scene... What? Really?
Yeah. This whole scene I wrote after I saw the first... you know, complete cut, once I had gotten it back.
And I thought, boy, it doesn't work, I don't...
I wasn't emotionally connecting what was going on in this whole scene, so I trashed it, and I think I called, in this episode, oh, my gosh.
It must have been close to 30-some new sh*ts, and I rewrote all the dialogue...
Ashley and Taylor had to go and record this scene.
I think we did this specific sequence at least five times as I worked out how to get the most out of this.
And now, the final version had Kanan's voice leading...
Yeah. ...you through this chasm... which it didn't have for a while.
And I didn't even have where you could see him again.
Originally I did not have that.
It just became apparent that you really need to remember exactly what they're talking about, and the best way to do that is to see this.
And my thought was that as they're...
As Ezra especially is being emotional about things, and specifically Kanan, that's what the world here is presenting to him, is these moments that he's thinking about.
But it really becomes, you know, about this idea of doing something because you want it to happen, doing something for yourself, even if it seems like it's a kind act, you know, to save your friend, my gosh, what could be a better thing to do?
But, in the end, it's perhaps a selfish thing.
You see this explored with Anakin when he's trying to save Padmé, save his wife, and yet, he's not giving any thought to her own agency and her own ability to save herself.
And in doing so, he brings everything toppling down.
So, it's a challenge in this scene because I talked to them about how it's a big hand-off, too, for Ahsoka to take up this mentoring moment for Kanan.
It's something that I think that Kanan, besides just bringing...
Saving Ahsoka in some ways, getting her out of that spot that they all got into on Malachor.
She becomes a real mentor in this moment to this boy, and lifts him up through kind of a dark moment.
And this is where he has a realization about what the real destiny of being a selfless person is, and how to really let go of things, and it's a difficult choice.
And this line, "I wish I could be with my parents, I wish I could be with my mom and dad, why couldn't things be like they were," was really reacting to, of course, you feel that way, that's very real.
When difficult things happen, and when you hear that... This is a spoiler a bit, but...
When you hear the thunderbolt it's letting you know that, like, okay, you spoke the truth, and maybe bad things heard you.
And that's what this is about.
And then we did the cool thing with Freddie here.
Yeah. This is cool when... he tempts him to turn around, which is Freddie's voice then into Palpatine's.
Yeah, McDiarmid, yeah, I had them say the same line.
Freddie was real excited about that.
I said, "I want you to say this line just like the Emperor does."
And so it's Kanan's voice into the Emperor.
And then you wonder, is it the Emperor that's coercing Ezra this whole time to try to save Kanan?
That's coercing Ezra this whole time to try to save Kanan?
Because maybe that whole thing is a trap.
So, again, you're just never sure.
Oh, you have to talk about the thing you did here because I loved this.
This is all you guys.
The secret code. Yeah, the knock.
You might recognize the rhythm of the knock here.
We had some fun, which we...
Generally something is always a throwback, or a nod to, or just a nerd moment for sound.
And for this, Zeb's tap, his signal, is the Star Wars... Is the theme tune.
You can probably hear it and sing along with it as it goes.
It's really great.
I didn't even notice it the first time you guys did it.
But it is the theme to Star Wars...
As you tap it out. Yeah.
And it works. I mean, you don't really think about it at all when you hear it, you can finally hear it. But...
These things they're in were actually a reuse from Clone Wars.
I designed those vehicles for that.
Now this was something... I've seen lots of lightning, I thought, why not fire?
Fire seems, you know, in some ways all-consuming and menacing, and so I had envisioned this idea.
I gave Joel and the effects team a whole lot of, you know, trial and error here to get the fire. But they did so brilliantly.
Joel knows it.
I was very specific with animation about how Palpatine can't really come through this unless he's connected.
So we had to have the fire a certain way when it releases from the portal.
And if you look at the base of the fire, it's actually disintegrating the lines of the walkways, which also adds to some of the desperation.
And sound-nerdy there, we took from when the Emperor does fall down the shaft.
Uh-huh.
And we used the sound that Ben created for that, and we incorporated it into that.
In which part? The blue...
When he falls down the shaft, like, in Jedi, so...
For when he's screeching.
We added a lot of him screaming and cackling.
The more screaming, cackling Palpatine is as the Emperor, the better off. Yeah.
The more evil.
But just this idea of his fury. But you're right, it ties in, you feel his anger and desperation.
His rage, yeah.
I like when he says, "Help me."
Ian's so good at those lines. Ooh.
So good.
And I had to see Ahsoka's lightsabers in one moment here, so I devised this moment just so she could turn them on.
Because I love those lightsabers.
They're my favorite lightsabers.
And this is like a promise here when Ezra says, "When you get back, come and find me."
And she says, "I will." And I don't think people realized, what I was trying to set up there which she does come back before the end of the show.
The last minute, but... Spoilers there. She does come back.
And this was fun, to see her go down the triangle doorway that's probably, hopefully ending some debates.
Yeah. As to was it her in the doorway?
Which I always thought, of course, it's her.
But I guess I have an advantage there to know these things.
The fire was fun.
And leading up to these doorways where they hit the wall, making this a tense b*at was a lot of sound design up to that moment.
What do you do for fire hitting a magic doorway?
Cutting it through. It's a lot of trial and error.
Really? Yeah.
I mean, that's the good thing about this is that you can do a bunch of things in your room that nobody hears.
And that you laugh at or sometimes cry at.
And then you come back to it.
Then we have just the regular old laser blasts cutting through, but...
This is one of those moments now where we get into the painting that we flipped the whole idea here, and it becomes about the music.
Yeah. And this is where I really believe Kevin Kiner's music which...
Boy, Kevin just rules the day in all of Season 4, but...
Yeah. In these episodes especially he creates some very unique music.
And it's just all about letting that emotionally take over the scene.
I mean, effects-wise here, we're using a lot of the Mortis planet stuff.
Yeah.
Well, and then we put Sam in right here.
We have Sam in here. I had to put Sam in...
Yeah. Because, you know, it makes his day.
Well, 'cause we have the father and the daughter.
Yeah, I know.
No, we had to put Sam in... Yeah.
Because he wouldn't let me hear about it if I didn't put him in, so.
But he was brilliant as the son.
And all this painting, this was done brilliantly by my friends over at Ghostbot Studios, who I had been wanting to work with for a long time.
Brad Rau did some episodic director work for us on Rebels, and they were a great team to work with, to do that 2D animation which I've been trying to get in the show a long time, so...
It looks fantastic.
It's very cool. Yeah.
And there's a plethora...
This is just an overload of sound and music, and lights and effects and...
The wolves are howling there. This is a...
It's a movie happening.
I hope so.
And this is just getting bigger and bigger and bigger.
It had to build in the way that a lot of... you know, climactic... movies or opera that my father would have us listen to.
I just wanted this almost wall of music and sound to hit like a big convergence, like something out of Close Encounters, too, when you think of the music there, and how big it gets, and how uplifting it becomes.
And it was great, ts direction was, because the characters are actually shouting.
So you can afford to have it all going on, which is cool.
I've gotten better at that over time.
I always know you can make them yell louder.
Now that was a moment because, you know, that was the last line that Freddie has in this series.
Yeah. The last line.
And Freddie was brilliant as Kanan.
He really brought that character to life.
All our actors are brilliant, but it was a...
It's a funny moment to realize, then he was done.
This scene was special because when we were sh**ting it, I wanted it to echo... the first time Kanan and Ezra came to this temple.
So you see that many of these sh*ts, setups... are very close to or similar to when Kanan and Ezra are standing in the same place, right down to the position of... a ship behind them, whether it be the Phantom...
or this mining, drilling machine they stole.
But I think it's an important thing that he's standing there at one point with his father figure, and now he's standing there with his mother figure.
I think especially for the two of them to find some type of closure... with the loss of... you know, this person that meant so much to them.
And that's really what the last four episodes have been about, is closure for the characters... for people watching this show, that the kids understand the value of... a person...
When they care about somebody, how you can get through that.
I think it's a nice moment for these two to share.
And then this final farewell.
This in a way is the ending of an act, of a big movement of Star Wars Rebels... where we, Ezra now is ready to step forward, as are all the characters with who they can ultimately become and what they ultimately need to do.
We're all saying goodbye to Kanan.
They are, yeah. It was hard for you.
It was hard for you.
I always know when an episode's working because you and Tracy get emotional first.
It's always a good sign.
It's a nice long sh*t to end on, you know.
I mean, it doesn't even go into the credit music.
It goes into some sad music.
I know. It's wonderful. It's sad, yes, but it's a catharsis.
I know. It's wonderful. It's sad, yes, but it's a catharsis.
I think in the end, it's kind of uplifting, and there you go.
There's so many things. I could watch that episode 20 times in a row and tell you different stuff every time we're watching it because we just... We packed it in there.
Yeah. There's a lot going on.
And you guys in sound did a brilliant job.
You guys always exceed whatever my expectation is.
You guys crush it.
We have a lot to work with, so it helps.
Well, there you go.