Mickey: The Story of a Mouse (2022)

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Mickey: The Story of a Mouse (2022)

Post by bunniefuu »

During the last few years, we've ventured

into a lot of different fields.

We've had the opportunity to meet

and work with a lot of wonderful people.

I only hope that we never lose sight

of one thing.

That it was all started by a mouse.

It's magical

to be able to channel

all of your energy at this character

Mickey!

who we can fill with

all of our hopes and dreams

and all of our love

and all of the innocence

that we experience and then

eventually lose and would like back.

Mickey!

Hi, Mickey. Hi, Mickey! Mickey!

Mickey was everywhere

when I was a kid.

He was just, like, part of my DNA.

He's plastered over every T-shirt,

every billboard.

He speaks multiple languages.

- He's everywhere.

- Everywhere!

It's overwhelming. Like, leave me alone.

Uh, no.

Okay, let's do that again.

What is it about Mickey Mouse?

He started as this simple character.

But over time, he gets so big

that he becomes

this reflection of who we are.

The good and the bad.

How's that even possible

with this... ...little mouse?

The life and ventures

of Mickey Mouse

have been closely bound up

with my own personal

and professional life.

He still speaks for me,

and I still speak for him.

Stop it.

Wore that one the other day.

Haven't worn that one in a while.

When I first got to the studio

to do the Genie in Aladdin,

I didn't know what to expect with Mickey.

It felt like he was encased in amber,

where they don't want to do

anything with him, you know?

Ah. Here we are. The Hat Building.

Sometimes people ask,

"Aren't you unhappy that you're not

on one of the features right now?"

I said, "I'm getting to animate

Mickey Mouse."

Walt used to say, "Don't forget.

It was all started by a mouse."

So, no matter what we're capable

of doing now,

Mickey takes us back to our origins.

This process of hand-drawn

hasn't really changed for a century.

You know, the process of drawing

the characters is exactly the same.

But back when the great Mickey cartoons

were being made,

the Disney studio had maybe a hundred

animators to do Mickey and his pals.

These days, to do

a new hand-drawn Mickey project,

like the one we're starting now,

we have three.

Me, Mark Henn and Randy Haycock.

Randy did characters

like Clayton in Tarzan.

He did a lot of Pocahontas.

And then Mark Henn

is really known as the princess guy.

And the list is endless.

We've always wanted to do something

where we see

all the different Mickeys together.

That's never really been seen

in a film before,

so that's what we're doing

on this project.

And we're calling it Mickey in a Minute.

Where he's walking down the hallways

of Disney Animation,

and he gets sucked into a whirlwind that

sends him through his most iconic moments

until, finally, he gets spit out

at the end as Steamboat Willie.

It's going to be a lot of work.

I mean, basically we're gonna be making

about 1,500 original drawings of Mickey

for about one minute's worth

of screen time.

But trust me.

It'll be worth it. You'll see.

And this is Mickey as he was designed by

Walt and Ub Iwerks.

Not exactly the Mickey we recognize today,

but our kind of proto-Mickey.

And yes, he still had a tail. Whoop.

There we go.

It was a beautiful farm

in Marceline, Missouri.

Forty-eight acres.

My chore was to keep the horse going

around the circle

and then part of it would be

feeding the cane in the squeezer, you see?

Walt lived here

in Marceline for five years.

It was a short amount of time.

But those very few years

were Walt's childhood.

His family was poor,

and his father Elias was extremely strict.

And so art for Walt was an escape.

Walt would take his drawing materials

and go down to a special tree.

His dreaming tree.

He would spend hours

under that tree just laying in the grass.

A thing that Walt called "Belly Botany."

I don't know if you've ever laid

in tall grass on a farm,

but there's a lot that's happening

around you.

Whatever happened to run

or crawl or fly by,

he would quickly try to sketch.

His little sister told me Walt

would do a series of drawings for her.

And then he would make a really good story

up to go along with it.

I can just see those creative juices

happening underneath his tree.

It was that happy place.

It was where that spark happened.

- I love it. Yeah, that looks cool.

- It's cool. I like that.

So, like, all the possibilities of what

you would want on your arm,

why'd you choose Mickey Mouse?

I feel like blood, sweat and tears

was put into Mickey Mouse by Walt.

You know, he was dirt poor.

Dirt poor with, like, a dream.

Just like, "Nope,

- I believe in that mouse."

- Right.

You get a lot of people

coming in here

asking about Disney and stuff?

Yeah, there's a few.

DJ, correct me if I'm wrong.

This was Walt and Roy's studio

in the early '20s?

Yeah. This is the place.

I know way too much

about the history of this now, you know?

With Walt and his brother

starting the Disney Brothers Studio here.

Walt was chilling right here.

Right here.

And now this little, rad dude

is so imprinted in everybody's brains.

Like, we all got a weird,

different feeling about him.

Mickey Mouse, to me, is light.

There's, like, a lot of dark in the world.

Especially nowadays, things do

tend to be getting a little bit darker.

And he's just keeping hope in the world.

Yeah!

So, this is the very first,

officially licensed

Disney book ever published.

Imaginatively titled, "Mickey Mouse Book."

Uh, what you've got in here are games.

Probably the most interesting, though,

is the story of how Mickey meets Walt.

Falling from Mouse Fairy Land,

crash-landing on Walt's roof.

Like Santa Claus,

Mickey hops down the chimney,

and who does he meet in the house?

None other than Walt Disney himself.

Walt loved to tell tall tales

of the story about how Mickey came to be.

He told it different versions

over the years himself.

Walt, you're a man

who's famous for many things,

not the least of which

is building a better mouse.

Mickey Mouse

hopped out of my mind

on a train ride from Manhattan

to Hollywood

at a time when the business fortunes

of my brother, Roy, and myself

were at lowest ebb and disaster

seemed right around the corner.

Walt was in trouble.

Before Mickey Mouse, Walt and his studio

created Oswald the Lucky Rabbit.

I'd argue that Oswald is

certainly a lucky rabbit,

but the luck isn't always good.

The actual Oswald contract does not give

Walt Disney the rights to that character.

And so, Walt Disney

was pushed out of the equation.

It's all about that mythological moment

when he's on the train.

And he's been told his entire studio

has been hired away from him,

that Oswald doesn't belong to him anymore,

and it's crushing.

But out of that comes hope.

He said, "Okay, we've lost everything.

Let's start again."

Over the years,

with the retelling of that story

on the train,

over and over again,

and the different inflections,

it becomes myth.

This is mythmaking.

Walt realizes the importance

of linking himself to that mouse.

They're developing at the same time.

Legend has it that,

on that train,

Walt wanted to call Mickey

"Mortimer Mouse,"

but his wife, Lillian,

suggested "Mickey Mouse."

I think that's probably one

of the most important decisions

anybody ever made for a character.

But they still had

a few Oswalds to produce,

so they couldn't necessarily

broadcast it far and wide

that they were gonna be working on

a new character.

So that very first Mickey Mouse short

was made in their garage.

Walt had to turn to the people

that he trusted the most.

Of course, you have Ub Iwerks,

Walt's lead animator.

Walt and Ub complemented each other.

You know, Ub could do things

that Walt could not.

First of all, animate like a demon.

It was said

he could do 700 drawings a day,

which is unbelievable.

Ub Iwerks, meanwhile,

remembered a different scenario

where Walt came back on the train

and said, "We need a new character."

And they tried out various animals

and settled on a mouse.

Either way, there's this famous sheet

of different designs of Mickey.

And two of them are circled.

Does it matter if Mickey was

created on a train

or at an animator's desk?

What matters is that

hope-from-despair story

that we can all resonate with and go,

"You know what? Yeah, I gotta pick

myself back up by my bootstraps

and keep going,

because if Walt can do it, I can do it."

In so precarious a world

of new possibilities

and increased competition,

I'd planned to go all out on sound.

And those plans came very near

spelling a major disaster for us.

Mickey was not

an overnight success.

Walt had made two cartoons prior

to Steamboat Willie,

Plane Crazy and Gallopin' Gaucho.

And he couldn't find

a distributor for them.

Then came a very important breakthrough.

In 1927, as sound came in,

he set out to make the first sync-sound

cartoon this country had ever seen.

To launch

our picture impressively,

I'd hired a full New York orchestra with

a famous director to do the recording.

The upshot was that I had

to borrow on my automobile,

and Roy and I had to mortgage

our homes as well,

to cover the cost of that first

synchronization for Steamboat Willie.

And everybody had to synchronize.

Hit that thing right on the button.

And we had--

We had a way of doing it though.

We had a little-- kind of a little b*at

that worked up and down.

They were all musicians working for me,

so they could follow those beats,

and when it came to a certain number

of beats, they would go...

Or they would go bang!

Or they would go this, or they would pop

one of these popguns, you know?

And when it was finished,

the picture wouldn't synchronize

with the sound.

And we had to do it all over.

Finally, when all of those

elements came together,

that put Mickey into the stratosphere.

It had to be this thing

that you would never forget

the experience of having.

It hit. It hit with a bang.

It was a hell of a success.

And nothing

would ever be the same after that.

With Steamboat Willie,

people would probably just be floored

by what they saw, you know?

When this movie came out,

there was nothing like this ever done.

And once in a while, in our lifetime,

we see a movie like that

and it changes everything.

I mean, for me in my childhood,

it was, like, Star Wars.

And I think Steamboat Willie

probably had a similar impact.

Mickey became

a movie star on the same plane

as Douglas Fairbanks or Charlie Chaplin.

He was somebody

they went to the movies to see.

And as his character developed,

he became a rescuer to Minnie Mouse

Take it easy. You're all right.

a hero stacked up

against Peg Leg Pete

and a very resourceful character.

It's no accident that Walt Disney

was the first voice of Mickey Mouse.

Yeah. It's me, I guess.

The optimist.

The curious kid who never grew up.

The guy who was intrepid,

who never let anything stand in his way.

That's Mickey Mouse,

but that's also Walt Disney.

And in a way,

Mickey's earliest cartoons are really

from Walt's memories as a farm boy.

Walt poured himself

into this character,

and the character embodies

Walt Disney himself.

So, you cannot separate the two.

In the early shorts,

there was a sense of adventure.

A sense of Walt doing something exciting

that somebody else wasn't doing.

Fairbanks and Chaplin were such fans

that they both made arrangements

that several of their films be paired with

Mickey Mouse shorts at their premieres.

"What? No Mickey Mouse?"

was the complaint of people going

to a movie theater and realizing,

"They're not showing a Mickey Mouse

cartoon. What's wrong with you people?"

He really was a sensation,

and the merchandise showed up everywhere.

That was a brand-new thing.

And there were a couple of companies

that were on the verge of bankruptcy,

and Mickey Mouse actually saved

those companies from disappearing.

What would another culture

from another planet think of us

seeing Mickey on everything?

They might say, "Take me to your leader,"

and it would be Mickey.

Let me get this out of the way.

And here it is, folks. Mouse Heaven.

I collect images that embody a life force.

Now, the more abstract they are, the more

they're imbued with that life force.

Because often it's just the bare essence.

So you can clothe it in anything

your imagination can bring forth.

Which kind of gets us up to Mickey.

Mickey is pure, absolute geometry,

made up of nothing but circles.

This total abstraction

is probably the most universal symbol

ever created by man or mouse.

Three simple circles,

a quarter and two dimes.

And it's recognizable the world over.

What I've collected is simply

the history of this phenomenon.

So, I think, if an archaeologist was

to find this place

in the far, far distant future,

they would be convinced that this

was a shrine to the great god Mickey.

Welcome to Earth.

I have to tell you about this mouse

that will change your life.

- He's a mouse.

- That wears clothes though.

White gloves, black fur,

I guess it would be.

Red pants. Yellow shoes.

Big ears, you know?

And he's always smiling.

He has a very particular voice.

Oh, boy!

He has a girlfriend, Minnie.

He likes Minnie. I know that.

I think that they're dating

because there's no ring on them.

And then his other friends are Daisy

Goofy, Donald

Oh, and he has a dog named Pluto.

Not to be confused with Goofy,

because Goofy is also sort of a dog,

but he's more of a dog-man.

Um, and that's just the world

we're living in.

Ha-ha, everybody.

Mickey Mouse.

Mickey Mouse.

Mickey and I just became inseparable.

We love a mouse. How crazy is that?

That's a little absurd.

Lay down!

Get up!

- Speak!

In the world's film capital

is the studio that stands as a monument

to the great genius of Walt Disney,

master of a new form of popular art that

That extra revenue

from the Mickey Mouse merchandise

really allowed the studio

to experiment and improve.

First thing I did

when I got a little money,

we set up our own art school.

Art schools that existed then

worked with the static figure.

Now, we were dealing in motion,

movement and the flow of movement.

The flow of things, you know?

Action. Reaction. All of that.

I put all my artists back in school.

And out of that school would come the

artists that now make up my staff here.

And more than that,

the artists that make up most

all of the cartoon outfits in Hollywood.

Mickey has taken the world

by storm.

The great thinkers,

the great artists are all stepping back

and acknowledging that this

is something otherworldly and important.

What is the power behind this character?

Yoo-hoo!

I think Mickey appeals

for a lot of different reasons.

But if I had to pick one,

it's the way he moves.

It's how he does things

that make him compelling to watch.

He has a spirit to him, dating all

the way back to Steamboat Willie,

that is playful, inventive,

resourceful and fun.

But his imperfections are as much

a part of his character as anything else.

Mickey wasn't perfect,

but he would always find a resourceful way

to get out of situations.

Minnie!

His movement is defining

who he is.

And that is what the Disney Studio

has specialized in ever since.

You're not just creating movement

for movement's sake.

You're creating movement that defines

that individual's personality.

People tend to forget that

Mickey Mouse started in the Roaring '20s.

But almost immediately,

the Depression fell on the United States.

America,

the land of shattered dreams.

A place of deep despair and real fear.

Millions of Americans homeless, hungry,

and without hope.

Because of the crisis,

the majority of kids

were spending their time without parents.

They were left free

to do what they wanted during the day.

And movies were the cheapest

entertainment you could get for a child.

So if you're a kid,

the one thing you could

be guaranteed of was a Saturday matinee.

It was the highlight of your week.

Yoo-hoo, Mickey!

Yoo-hoo!

I fell in love with Mickey

because I went to the movies almost

every day with my sister and brother.

And you had a double feature

and a cartoon in the middle,

so you were there for hours

out of the hands of your parents.

And there's the cartoon,

and when I saw that cartoon--

First the big head would appear

with radiant lights coming out of it.

I remember my sister saying,

"We knew it was coming,

and Jackie would grab you by one arm,

and I would grab you by the other arm,

and you went into a frenzy."

Wow.

I get the goose bumps every time.

Mickey becomes the icon of how

to truly survive the Great Depression.

The American dream has suffered.

But Mickey is able to bring that back.

He's able to return us to a sense

of perseverance.

There was no other character

having that grip on a mass conscience.

That popularity spins out into things

like the Mickey Mouse clubs,

where kids could get together

and watch Mickey cartoons together

and laugh together.

And now they're all waiting

for Mickey himself.

Here he comes!

Mickey weathers the Depression,

but he's got to change and transform.

Because America and Mickey,

they change together.

There's almost a hundred years

of Disney Animation history

within this building.

We have approximately 65 million pieces

of art in our collection.

And every box holds a spark of creativity.

So, here you've got Steamboat Willie.

Ah. That's a nice one.

Mickey as he's falling

in the soap bucket.

Yeah, and it's so, so simple.

You look at the hands--

They almost look

like just little pinwheels.

- And just--

- Yeah.

It's the spirit of Mickey,

just really simplified to an essence.

You'll be able to see

an evolution of Mickey here.

- So, we've gone five years later.

- Mm-hmm.

Oh, yeah.

You can see there's

a little bit more to him.

It's the same character, but you can tell

that a different animator did this.

Mm-hmm.

The hands, for example.

They added the white gloves.

And this Mickey

is just that much more

three-dimensional and organic.

You would take an animator's drawing

of Mickey,

put it on your light box,

and then improve it.

Whoop.

Improve it by making that pose stronger,

making that line of action more defined.

But there's still something personal in it

that you're bringing to the table.

The very first animation I did here at

the studio back in 19--

We won't talk about that.

It was a long time ago.

But the very first animation I did

was Mickey Mouse.

I felt it then,

and I feel it now with this short.

And we're able to keep him alive,

and we're doing it in the way

that Mickey should be done.

I don't know if I can flip this

'cause the papers are kind of thin.

The character of Mickey,

the personality of Mickey--

Being hand-drawn is part of who he is.

And if people recognize that, you know,

there will always be a reason for us

to keep drawing him.

And those early animators,

as crude as it was,

they were discovering the language

of animation.

Well, Walt,

how is Snow White

and the Seven Dwarfs coming along?

Oh, it's come along very well.

Going to run for one hour and a half.

No cartoon production

has ever run that long before.

That's why we feel justified

in putting one million dollars into it.

In terms of animation,

Mickey opened a lot of doors for Walt,

and Walt was always looking for new doors.

You know, it makes me dizzy

to think of the millions of drawings

necessary for a production of this kind.

Disney needs to expand hugely.

And so, the studio goes

from a small group to 300 people.

And that change really transforms

the studio.

No longer can Walt be involved

in every Mickey short.

His entire focus shifts over

to Snow White.

Snow White was not taking place

in the same universe that Mickey lived in.

But at the same time,

Mickey never goes away.

He's always right there by Walt's side

whenever he takes on a new enthusiasm.

Mickey Mouse is probably

the most difficult character to ink

because of all the curves.

That's the most difficult part of inking

is inking circles.

And Mickey Mouse is full of circles.

Your job as an inker is translating

the animator's work onto the cel.

You don't have any room

to go outside of that.

Because if you do that,

you change their intention.

You change their work.

They say it takes about 15 years

of consistent inking--

eight hours a day, five times a week,

for 15 years-- to become a master inker.

There's only a few of us

in the Ink and Paint department now,

but it used to be hundreds,

and for a long time, it was all women.

The thousands of pencil drawings

go to the inking department.

Here, hundreds of pretty girls

cover the drawings

with sheets of transparent celluloid.

Then they painstakingly trace every line

of every drawing in ink,

following exactly, in every detail,

the original animation drawing.

The role of the inkers

and painters gets glossed over

into this log-line of pretty girls

who traced and colored.

When what they were accomplishing

was mind-blowing.

These women were artists

in their own right.

In the studio paint laboratory,

all colors used

are made up from secret formulas.

Expert chemists developed more

than 1500 different shades of color

for Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.

Color forever transforms

the world of Mickey Mouse.

Pastel is his flesh. His tongue.

Marigold, his shoes. Lobster, his pants.

We are not really brushing.

It's actually dropping a glob of paint,

and then we just push it to the edges,

because we wanna make the paint

look as opaque as possible.

When I'm inking or painting Mickey Mouse,

it just takes me back

to when Walt first created Mickey.

So now that we're done with it,

this is what it looks like from the front.

All ready, Uncle Mickey?

Okay, let's go.

Once Mickey becomes

an international children's star,

there's certain things he cannot do.

Parents of Mickey's

younger viewers

wanted Mickey to clean up his act

and not be as bad an influence.

He can't be a bully.

He can't punch people.

He can't behave in any way

that would be considered bad behavior.

It pushed Mickey

into a straight man role,

where almost any kind of flaw

is seen as out of character.

And so, Donald Duck appears.

Aw, phooey!

The duck came along as a result

of too many taboos put onto Mickey Mouse.

People didn't feel that Mickey

could blow his top like the duck.

He had to maintain a certain dignity.

So, in order to give ourselves a latitude,

we created

this terrible-tempered Mr. Duck.

Get out of here! Get out of here!

Story after story

was rejected for Mickey

because he was perceived

as being a little bit too silly in them.

They found out Mickey is probably

best paired with Donald and Goofy.

A moose!

A moose!

And have this little trio.

Hot dog! Now do your stuff.

I'll take care of the rest.

There are many great ones

that include the three of them

that work well 'cause their

personalities rub off against each other.

Lend a hand, me hearties!

Aye, aye, Captain!

What's the big idea?

But it became evident

that Donald is getting Mickey's anger

and Goofy gets Mickey's silly side.

And if Mickey is the responsible one,

he pretty much has to take a back seat.

But then where does that leave Mickey?

This part of the short

that I'm animating

is from the Brave Little Tailor.

He's trying to get his arm out

of his sleeve.

Can't get it.

And then that's when Mickey

comes in to his arm right here.

Then I gotta get all that done

in 297 frames.

So I've only got a hundred frames

to get the rest of it.

I think I was here 25 years

before I actually animated Mickey.

And it seems a shame because,

you know, if you work at Disney,

you should be animating Mickey

all the time, I'd think.

When Eric gave me the sections

that I was gonna do, I got really excited

because that was my favorite Mickey

that made me wanna be an animator.

They came at me from the right.

Then the left. Right, left, left, right!

So that was exciting

and intimidating all at the same time.

As Mickey evolved,

what used to be his eye,

when you get to Fantasia,

just became this little thing here

and so you would end up with the pupils.

Fantasia Mickey's important

because with the whites of his eyes

like this,

it made him a lot more expressive.

And I'm gonna stretch his ears

a little more here

because he just became

a little more pliable from this point on.

We wouldn't have a Fantasia if it weren't

for Walt's concern for Mickey Mouse.

He was worried that Donald and Goofy

were overtaking Mickey's popularity,

and he wanted a vehicle to bring Mickey

back in the limelight again.

And so originally, Fantasia was just going

to be The Sorcerer's Apprentice short,

and it then blossomed

into an entire innovative feature film

that's still never been equaled.

Fantasia is something

that was a huge gamble.

You have so many different styles.

It's something that,

in theory, shouldn't work.

The greatest thrill

of his acting career happened

on the night of November 13th, 1940

at the same theater where he made

his first appearance as a ragged,

shoeless mouse almost ten years before.

Some of the old animators said that

when they heard that Walt wanted Mickey

to be on this rock conducting

the universe,

they thought he'd gotten kinda crazy

'cause Mickey Mouse, after all,

is a cartoon character.

You don't conduct the universe.

Mickey conducting the universe

you can translate

to Walt conducting his own universe

'cause by that time his company had grown,

and thousands and thousands

of people were working at the studio.

So I think Walt became Mickey then.

There's some scenes

in Sorcerer's Apprentice

where he knows he's screwed up

in front of the sorcerer.

The subtlety that they get on his face,

I think that's where the character

hit his absolute peak of perfection.

Artistically, Walt achieved

everything he wanted to with Fantasia.

But when the movie came out,

it was a failure.

Artistic success, financial failure,

you know?

Certainly an artistic

success. It was a magnificent--

Well, there's-- Some people would,

uh, would question that too.

Fantasia was

Mickey's culmination and his termination.

That sorcerer swatted him with the broom,

and he scurried off of the stage,

and he never quite came back again.

Well, so long! I'll be seeing ya!

The story of Walt and Mickey

wasn't just one continual

success after success.

It was stumble after stumble,

failure after failure.

But Walt believed that if he worked hard

enough, he could overcome every obstacle.

There are two main animators

who were really, really important

in Mickey's life,

Ub Iwerks and Fred Moore.

It was Moore who redesigned

the mouse more than once,

and after Fantasia, the studio

is talking in terms of a comeback.

From Fantasia,

Freddie Moore took him even further

for even more fluidity

and more character.

They gave him a loose,

rangy kind of movement,

and they had him

deliberately clowning around.

Everything's kind of working

to this S curve here.

I'll clean up your yard.

All right. But no more clowning.

They were trying

to make Mickey funny again.

You know? Let him play a clown

once in a while,

like when he's doing his goofy dance

in Mickey's Birthday Party,

or when he's raking up leaves

in The Little Whirlwind, you know?

It's okay for him to make mistakes or

act foolish once in a while in that year.

The movement, the organic qualities,

the fluidity of the animation

was never better.

They could do with Mickey anything.

This new Mickey seemed

to hold the promise of

freeing him from that role of being

the serious, responsible one all the time.

But that version

of Mickey didn't last long.

The whole world is aflame.

All the peoples of the United Nations are

fighting the savage enemies of freedom.

In Hollywood, Walt Disney has turned over

almost the entire facilities of his studio

for the production

of Army and Navy instructional films.

Four, eight, sequence one. Let her roll.

Walt, being the patriot that he was,

supported whatever the government

and the m*llitary wanted

Don't throw away that bacon grease.

Fats make glycerin

and glycerin makes expl*sives.

whether that was creating shorts

for home front or propaganda purposes

Will our own cities and homes be bombed?

or training films

and educational films for the m*llitary.

If the bolt is pulled back,

the magazine's free

They were designing insignia

for different m*llitary and auxiliary units

around the world.

Over twelve hundred were made.

You have groups writing

to the studio, saying,

"We want Mickey to help

get us through this."

Before the w*r,

h*tler liked Mickey,

Mussolini loved Mickey,

Hirohito loved Mickey.

But when America enters w*r,

Mickey ends up banned.

The little fellow's grin

was too infectious for Nazism.

h*tler thunderingly forbade his people

to wear the then-popular Mickey Mouse

button in place of the swastika.

h*tler understood what Mickey symbolized.

Independence, liberty, freedom.

America is Mickey.

Commando Duck, here are your orders.

You'll parachute at position D-4.

But with the wartime shorts

that are produced to create morale,

almost all of those are done

by Donald Duck.

Mickey's presence in World w*r II

tended to rely on the home front.

You see him on support posters,

getting people to carpool,

rationing, selling w*r bonds,

supporting the w*r effort

not from the front line but at home.

If you were a child at that point in time

or a family,

who better to look to than Mickey Mouse

for that sense of comfort?

But you, as a creator,

don't control

what happens to your products.

You don't control what happens

to your characters.

And so, when wartime came,

Mickey was already there.

There was a village in Poland in which the

entire village was destroyed by the Nazis.

And there are images left

from that village

that create a collection of the life

of the village before the horror.

And in one of the photographs is Mickey.

And it's a shocking image

within the Holocaust museum

to see this-- this being, Mickey Mouse,

creating pleasure for this community

right on the cusp of the w*r.

Children in the camps were dressed up

in Mickey Mouse costume,

staging Mickey Mouse plays,

drawing images of Mickey Mouse.

There was actually a comic strip written

by someone in the camps,

which covered the daily life through

the perspective of Mickey Mouse.

And at the end, he erases Mickey and says,

"Mickey's gone back to America."

And the person who drew

the comic strip was then k*lled.

Mickey was in the Holocaust because Mickey

represented the possibility of escape,

of joy, of happiness.

And those dictators understood very well

that was not what they were offering.

We kind of have to think

of Mickey as, like, before World w*r II

and then after World w*r II.

It's two very different careers.

- Well, here we are, Pluto.

Boy, what a dream place.

Come on, Your Highness.

Utopia is yours.

This migration to the suburbs,

variously estimated as

from 40 to 80 million people.

Many people complain about

the post-w*r Mickeys

being domesticated, but Walt Disney

is a very different person.

Walt has a suburban house,

has a very set, conservative life, really.

And he's a person now

who's gone through nervous breakdowns,

possibilities of financial ruin, a strike.

He gets involved in HUAC

and that changes the Mickey we know.

It makes him a much more contained

character than he was in the early years.

And America is moving

in that direction too.

We don't want chaos.

We wanna feel safe.

We wanna feel familiar and protected.

Okay, Pluto. Let's get our tree.

- 1953 was his last short,

and I've heard him described

as just being a little-- little man.

He acquired a decent house and a mortgage,

and he just became

your suburban mouse next door.

There is a continuing trend

to more time off,

which means more time to consume.

It's a completely new idea in automobiles.

The daring, dazzling 1955 Rambler.

Come on, Pluto, old boy.

We're going to see the 1955 Nash.

When I first saw these,

I did a complete double take

that Mickey was even drawn this way.

The new 1955 Rambler offers

complete year-round air conditioning.

They're sending the signals

that Mickey and Minnie are married

and they're driving in the front

of the Nash Rambler,

and there are their two kids sitting in

the back. And it's like, "Wait a minute!"

Live a little.

Drive a Rambler.

Apparently, they had made

a few commercials before Walt saw them.

What had happened was,

a fan had written to him saying,

"Dear Walt, what did you do with Mickey?"

And he found these commercials and

looked at them and just went, "Stop!

That's not Mickey.

We're not doing that anymore."

Walt was getting so busy

that he didn't always have time

to stop what he was doing

and go to the soundstage

and record Mickey's voice.

And doing that falsetto voice of Mickey

was becoming harder.

He actually had to go to a doctor

for the vocal strain.

- Hi.

- How are you?

- Nice to meet ya.

- Nice to meet you.

Yeah. I'm excited to work on this.

You know, you could-- you could do this

for a living. You sound just like him.

- I would hope to. Thanks. Thanks.

So, you've read the script.

It's kind of a fanciful trip

through Mickey's career.

Uh, it starts with him walking through

the halls of the animation studio

and he's looking at his past glories

on posters.

So, why don't you go through it,

and we'll see what we get.

- All right.

- Okay.

One. Take one.

Aw, there's Pluto.

It's Minnie.

Pete.

Try another one

where you're just a little more casual,

- a little slower.

- Okay.

Hmm, hmm.

Oh, I remember that.

Those are great.

Try one more that's just a, "Hmm."

Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

The responsibility is huge,

because I'm just playing a part

in continuing this legacy

that started with Walt back in 1928.

Hey, Pluto. Here she comes.

- Hi, folks.

- Hi, folks!

- This is Mickey.

- I'm Mickey too.

- You are?

- I thought so.

Jimmy Macdonald, the second voice

of Mickey, told Wayne,

"Remember, kid, you're only filling in for

the boss." And that's how I look at it.

Come on. We gotta hurry.

Come on. We gotta hurry.

Ah, gosh.

Gosh! Oh, gosh!

I will never forget that, essentially,

I'm emulating

Walt's performance as Mickey.

Hot dog! Hot dog!

Hot dog!

- Hot dog!

- That last one.

Yeah, nice.

You know, the coal

is floating around him like asteroids,

- so he's trying to grab for them.

- Uh-huh.

Gotcha!

Great.

I'm sitting there and I'm listening

to Bret doing the voice, and I'm thinking,

"Oh, man. He's nailed it.

He's really got him."

And I hope that as well as Bret nails

the voice, we nail the visuals.

Working on this short is kind

of Mickey heaven

because you get to play

with all these different styles,

as do the other animators

who are working on it.

So in this particular case,

this is a Mickey from the 1950s.

And this sequence was animated

by John Lounsbery.

And to be honest,

this is the first time I've drawn

a 1950s Johnny Lounsbery Mickey.

So, you know,

I'm learning as I go.

-Hi, partners!

- Hi, Mickey!

Well, this here's our roundup day,

so, uh, you all pretty nigh ready?

- Sure enough!

-Sure enough.

Then let's get on with it.

Most Hollywood producers

were terrified of television.

Walt Disney and Mickey Mouse present

The Mickey Mouse Club.

Walt goes in the opposite direction

and embraces television.

He relished the idea of getting

into a new field like that.

Hi, Mouseketeers.

Hi, Roy!

What would you like to have me draw?

Mickey Mouse.

It made it a lot easier to have

this audience identification

with a character that they had known

for all those years

and had become a part of their lives.

Once again, Mickey provided the

momentum that made all of that possible.

Yay, Mickey! Yay, Mickey!

Yay, Mickey Mouse Club!

One, two, three, four, five, six, seven.

You know, Walt, I think,

very quickly realized

that the power of his creations

had life beyond the walls of the studio.

And he would get fan mail.

People would ask,

"How can I meet Mickey and Minnie?"

Welcome.

I guess

you all know this little fella here.

It's an old partnership.

Mickey and I started out

the first time many, many years ago.

We've had a lot of our dreams come true.

Now we want you to share with us

our latest and greatest dream.

That's it right here.

Disneyland.

As soon as Walt starts on another path

and focuses his interests on Disneyland,

Mickey goes through

a major transformation as well.

He has to become the kind of icon

that Walt is becoming.

Disneyland is your land.

Here, age relives

fond memories of the past,

and here, youth may savor the challenge

and promise of the future.

There is something very personal

about this whole quest that Walt is on.

Returning to his own sense

of being a child.

And that Mickey Mouse,

the character that existed in his head

and then on paper,

that existed on the big screen,

could now be as close to every visitor

at the park as it was to him.

That's Mickey Mouse,

the inimitable little character

that started this whole story

with Walt Disney 25 years ago.

The real star of it is Mickey Mouse.

I think there's an aura of magic

around Mickey Mouse

that makes you feel safe.

And I think within that bubble,

you are safe.

Mickey connects generations.

He connects our childhood memories

to our adult memories.

And so when you encounter

Mickey in the park, you are not just you.

You are six-year-old you,

and you are 80-year-old you in the future.

And you are with your grandmother,

and you are with your grandchildren,

and you are participating

in a timeless moment.

Mickey is the walking embodiment

of Walt's philosophies.

And you can meet him, still,

in the persona of Mickey.

I do remember, like, driving up to it

and having that feeling that, like,

this is where Mickey lives.

Oh, this is a sacred space.

It's like he made Disneyland.

It's like he used magic to, like--

At that time,

I'm thinking he's like John Wayne

or he's like a real, true movie star.

He spent his money.

He bought this so people

could come visit him.

And I actually got to meet him.

- When I was five years old--

- Five years old.

Maybe ten?

When I saw him in Tokyo Disneyland,

I really believe it's him.

He's right down here.

And actually, I think the sweetest one

is me and Minnie down here.

It's kind of a big deal when I see Mickey.

My husband literally pushed me

out of the way--

Pushed her out of the way

so I could get to Mickey first.

Really happy

when I got Mickey Mouse's signature.

Thank you for all the times

you were there for me.

And you've always been my best friend.

I resonate with Mickey so well

because there's an undeniable piece

of Walt's heart in Mickey Mouse.

Can you still make a noise

like Mickey Mouse?

Well, uh, Mickey used

to talk something like this, you know?

It's kind of a falsetto.

Of course, he's an old mouse now

and the falsetto's getting a little old.

Yeah.

Working with Walt,

nobody had any idea he was ill.

Certainly not to the extent he was.

We simply didn't see it coming.

We never saw it coming.

After Walt's death,

his wife, Lillian, said that

it was difficult for her to watch

or listen to Mickey Mouse

because there was so much of Walt in him.

After his passing,

they pretty much closed up the office.

They'd go in and dust and--

and things like that,

but it-- it looks just the way it did.

We've tried to keep it

as close to Walt as possible.

You know, with the passing of Walt,

the studio honestly did not know

what to do with Mickey.

And for me as a Disney storyteller,

it was kind of eye-opening.

It almost seemed that they wanted

to put the lid on Mickey.

Because Walt's values,

Walt's ideas would be frozen in time.

The world changed. The culture changed.

And Mickey hadn't really changed with it.

Even Mickey Mouse has troubles these days.

A band of yippies threatened trouble

in the park all day yesterday.

The yippies said

they have come to liberate Mickey Mouse.

Mickey Mouse was still

very much alive outside the Disney studio.

You know, you could not escape him.

Just like America splits in the '60s,

Mickey Mouse splits as well.

There's kind of a surface meaning to him.

But the more you look into him,

the more you think about it,

the more levels there are to this symbol.

So there are two Mickeys now.

Mainstream Mickey

and counterculture Mickey.

And those coexist in this one character.

Mickey becomes this irresistible symbol

to the counterculture.

So if you have an issue with your parents,

with authority, with America in general,

Mickey Mouse is your guy.

What Mickey provided was inspiration.

People were starting to use Mickey

to reflect life around them

in all sorts of different ways.

And that really starts to deepen

the character of Mickey Mouse.

I don't know why things persist

in people's minds and memories.

Some things stick, some things don't.

I forgot I did that.

That was Mickey Mouse

by Leonardo da Vinci.

All significant art represents an attempt

to understand reality.

I was against the Vietnam w*r,

and I thought we could do a little film

on Mickey Mouse in Vietnam.

I was looking for a symbol

that would represent every man.

And Mickey was sort of universal.

And so much a part of the American ethos.

Part of the factor was his innocence.

By that point, Mickey really had become

an emblem of what America stood for.

But America is changing during that time,

and in that short film,

Mickey somehow manages to be

the perfect symbol for that change.

Of innocence lost during that w*r.

By that point,

we're so identified with Mickey,

Mickey is so close to us,

that there's no other character or symbol

that could sell

that message so effectively.

Every version of Mickey

is a version of all of us.

It's a version of the society

that we have all come from.

And in the 1960s, America began

to ask questions about itself,

questions that many had ignored,

and that included Mickey Mouse.

Just like Mickey's shorts in the '30s

where Mickey's performing in blackface,

popular forms of entertainment show

America has been divided

since the founding of this country.

But it's difficult to see Mickey

part of that conversation.

It's a disconnection that happens

as a viewer when I'm faced with that

and those sorts of presentations.

And then, of course, you have Minnie.

It's hard to watch

those Mickey shorts with our eyes today.

- But the last thing we wanna do

- Don't do that!

is to ignore, to hide,

to somehow imagine those elements

of our identity don't exist.

That version of Mickey does exist.

He speaks to the racism

within our own society.

It's easy to say, "It is what it is."

It's easy to say that was just Walt

being the man he was at the time.

But given the cultural power

that Walt had,

some of the images he put out there

with Mickey did damage.

Mickey's supposed to love everybody.

Clearly, in these moments,

he's not loving all of us.

He's not loving all of us.

And here is Mickey's official

50th anniversary portrait.

He's a little taller now. More grown-up.

And, at the temples, just a touch of gray.

Mickey's physical appearance

has changed somewhat

since Walt Disney created the mouse

back in 1928.

And over the years,

Mickey's tastes have changed as well.

But Mickey Mouse seems to stay up

with the times, and in the area of music,

it is only natural that Mickey Mouse

would eventually go disco.

Mickey is truly iconic in the sense

that he cannot be beaten.

So, yes, he's gonna have a disco album

that's horrible

and that comes two or three years

after disco's peak.

But it's still gonna be really popular

and successful.

I loved

the Mickey Mouse Disco when I was younger.

And I would just, like,

dance in my living room.

That's cute.

But then on the other side,

we see the punk appropriation of Mickey.

And we see the Ramones

wearing Mickey Mouse T-shirts.

What are they doing?

I, myself, and my friends,

when we were into punk and skateboarding,

would wear Mickey Mouse T-shirts.

It was a mixture of,

"I am making fun of something,

and I am also expressing admiration

for something,

and my parents don't get that."

So it became kind of a secret language.

A lot of artists began to incorporate

Mickey as a way of saying,

"If you're gonna flood the culture

with this kind of imagery,

then it becomes ours at some point."

He becomes the super symbol.

Mickey Mouse, we are told,

is one of the top three icons

of the 20th century.

A distinction he shares with Adolf h*tler

and the Coca-Cola bottle.

Andy Warhol lifted the image straight

as part of a series

of screen prints entitled Myths.

Mickey Mouse is my favorite, uh, image

because, uh, Walt Disney is

my favorite artist.

- I'm Mickey Mouse.

- I'm Minnie Mouse.

I'm Donald Duck.

By the 1980s,

things were getting weird

for Mickey Mouse,

because he had become almost this

divine figure that you didn't mess with.

Recently, The Walt Disney Company

heard about the painted characters

at this day care center

and two others in Hallandale, Florida.

Disney now demanding

the removal of all its characters.

The company charging unauthorized

infringement of its rights

under the US Copyright Act.

Do you know

what they're going to do to Mickey Mouse?

- What?

- They're gonna take him away.

Despite their objections,

the day care centers say

they'll have to paint

over the cartoon characters

because they can't fight the power

of the corporate mouse.

Our legal protection

of Mickey has inevitably led

to some uncomfortable situations

over the course of the company's history.

I wouldn't say that we've handled

every situation perfectly,

but there's really no precedent

for a creation like this

when it comes to copyright.

Mickey's one of the most

popular characters in the world,

and there's really no question

that we've had to learn as we go.

Disney's been very protective of Mickey,

and it's interesting to think about

how Walt's own experience

of losing Oswald early on helps

to define the trajectory of the studio.

You signed this contract.

See this signature there? Walt Disney.

Right here it says that we own

Oswald the Rabbit.

Disney as a company

was created out of tremendous loss,

and I think that will give

some context to why the company

has defended Mickey so carefully

over the years.

And we understand that copyright

is a part of the Mickey Mouse story.

The challenging thing is that

from a practical perspective,

your copyright is only as good

as your ability to enforce it.

It's a balance and one that

we continually work to get right.

I am wholeheartedly against

the infringement of copyright.

So much so,

that I had that phrase trademarked,

and then I had it emblazoned

on a Mickey Mouse doll.

Where does something this big

and this important to society

become just owned by society?

There is a level of Mickey that,

you know, we all own.

Disney the company was very strict

about copyright and legal issues,

but I never personally associated it

with Mickey himself.

There's the

ambassador-of-the-company Mickey,

and then there is that little more

rambunctious nature of Mickey.

There are two Mickeys,

'cause like anybody else would,

Mickey has to act a little bit differently

in different environments.

And how do you not love

Mickey's Christmas Carol?

You know that-- that--

The soul of Mickey in that movie

is still the pure soul of the film.

Walt Disney Studios.

Home to characters and stories spun

from pure cinematic magic.

But up until 1983,

the Disney character who started

the whole enchanted operation

hadn't made a movie in 30 years.

When we created the picture,

there was, amongst us, a sense that we--

we were gonna be able to bring him back.

G-g-g-good morning,

Mr. Scrooge.

Mickey's Christmas Carol

was heralded as Mickey's great comeback.

But it's really a Scrooge McDuck cartoon.

What are you doing?

I was just trying

to keep my hands warm, sir.

Some of the top people

that used to work here have done Mickey

and, uh, you know,

things were pretty well established

as far as what kind of a character,

you know, he is.

There was a sense that

there was a little bit of a fear, I think,

that the studio had with Mickey

'cause they didn't want

to do something that failed.

He was our corporate symbol.

So it would've been really difficult

if Mickey's a flop.

Like Walt always said,

it all started with a mouse.

So they kind of became very careful

about what projects

Mickey was involved with.

Oh! Huh.

Aw, Minnie and I

It's both an honor

and a challenge

to animate Mickey in the present day.

Hey!

You've got this big weight

on your shoulders

like, "I'd better not louse it up."

But, you know,

I just look at it as a continuum.

I mean, here we are

almost a hundred years later,

and we're in the final week

of animating this new short.

You know, we're still drawing him,

we're still talking about him.

After all the things that Mickey

has been through

he's still here.

The Disney name evoked

some of the happiest

and most endearing memories

in entertainment, but in recent years,

some of that luster has dimmed.

Even with that legacy

and with those assets,

everyone would acknowledge

something was wrong.

What do you think about Mickey Mouse?

He's okay, but

I like Goofy. And Minnie and Goofy.

In attempting to interact

with as many people as possible,

Mickey seems lost.

He's hollow.

There's-- There's nothing there.

Look in the dictionary. What a definition!

"Unimportant.

Trivial. Irritatingly petty."

Let Fredo take care of

some Mickey Mouse nightclub somewhere!

Do I like new Mickey Mouse?

Would I sing the Mouseketeer Club song?

No. No, I'm not a fan of Mickey.

This is the Mickey that you see today.

He has nice puffed-out cheeks.

In other words,

all the kids think he looks cute.

Guess who's moving to Japan?

America's best-known mouse, Mickey.

Not only was Mickey mobbed

but so was the store selling his ears.

Fresh supplies had to be flown in

after the hats sold out.

Mickey stands for Disneyland

the place where they can go

and have all this fun.

And spend money.

We don't just sell Disney.

We are Disney.

Mickey in one word? Uh

Consumerism.

I'm the mascot of an evil corporation.

Take the good with the bad.

Think of all the laughs I've given you.

You're supposed to be funny?

- Yeah.

I think we confused people.

So that, in 2005, when you asked people,

uh, who Mickey Mouse was,

they typically would say

he's a corporate symbol

of The Walt Disney Company.

I'm not sure people really knew

who Mickey was or what Mickey was

because Mickey had been

so many different things

and not necessarily all good.

- What's that? You want some more?

- Hey!

Who's the mouse

that's got the groove?

He was looked upon, I think,

as commerce versus art.

Not quite heartless,

but he didn't have enough of the identity

that Walt created for him originally.

The last thing Walt would've wanted

would've been for Mickey

to remain as he was

or to be stuck in some museum case.

So, we began a process

to bring Mickey forward.

Most people, when they thought of Mickey,

besides being a corporate icon,

felt that Mickey was old.

We asked people,

"How old do you think Mickey is?"

And everybody said,

"Well, he's over sixty-five."

And there had been

very little content made

with Mickey in it for quite some time.

We prevented anyone

innovating with the character

or anyone even trying to return Mickey

to his former self.

We thought we owed it to ourselves

and to the character

to engage with all sectors of the company.

And that led to what we called a bake-off.

We let each of the entities present to us

a fresh version of Mickey Mouse

that everybody could love again.

At first, I was like,

"Well, gosh. It sure would be cool

to just make Mickey Mouse shorts,

but they're not gonna let me do that."

It was a very interesting time.

For me, it was like,

"He doesn't need to be a shill.

He can go back to the time

when he was really active and happy."

But I felt like Mickey himself had

forgotten his roots.

Forgotten where he came from.

Disney had this bible

of what Mickey is and isn't,

the dos and don'ts,

and they decided not to show me that.

I wanted to remind him

that he wasn't just a corporate symbol,

that he wasn't

just a greeter in the parks,

that he was a cartoon character too.

The bake-off ultimately led to

a whole new era

of storytelling with Mickey.

Hang on, pal. Here we go.

Holy moly! It's Mickey Mouse!

They wanted to restore Mickey

to his glory and make sure,

because Mickey didn't

take himself too seriously,

we weren't taking Mickey so seriously.

The new shorts actually,

that version of Mickey, to me,

is the first time I've seen that kind of

truest version of him in a long time.

I'm coming, Minnie!

Fire, fire, fire!

He's, like, coming into his personality.

He's not holding back.

The sky is the limit for him.

He's still allowed to be a goober

and still allowed to be sad

and happy and angry. All of it.

Get back here!

It's been fun to see kids going,

"Wow! These are actually funny!"

How do you balance the heritage

that created the character,

that created the company,

with the need to be innovative and modern?

The trick is to respect the past

but not revere it.

Hello.

Oh, my gosh. Red!

There's only really one Mickey

I want to see.

And that's that old-time Mickey.

- Mickey!

- Minnie!

When he came out of the screen,

we didn't want him to feel like,

"Oh, he's the new Mickey."

We wanted him to feel like,

"This is Mickey, just outside of

his black-and-white screen."

There was a moment on the film

when we were like,

"Wait. So, all the characters are running

in and out of the screen from 2D to CG,

and they loop, like, six or seven times?"

And Lauren's like, "Yeah!"

And we're like

"Okay."

I think that's something

that Walt established early on

where you just-- You never say no.

You always push boundaries.

You're always innovating.

He would've had us

in hologram animation by now.

In the same way that the parks

and the walk-arounds keep

the characters alive,

new animation helps keep them alive.

And pencil to paper

is the way that Mickey started.

And, in many cases,

it's the way he looks the best.

Well, I just got the short back.

The thing that I'm really happiest about

in this piece is

that when you see it all cut together--

you know, all the Mickeys,

all in one short film--

it really does feel like

the Mickey that we all love.

- Good to see you guys!

- Good to see you.

Good to see you.

This is gonna be cool.

Everything looks better in this theater.

- Yeah, I think it does.

You know, if Walt and Ub are watching,

I'd like to think we did our darndest

to honor them and honor their creation.

Oh! Huh.

Mm-hmm.

Oh. And there's Pluto.

Aw, Minnie and I.

Wow. That one sure gave me a workout.

Hey!

Whoo! Whoo!

Oh! Gosh.

Well what do you know?

Okay, roll it!

Whoa!

Yeah, that's it.

All right.

You guys did a great job.

- Absolutely great.

- Thank you. It was fun. A lot of fun.

Walt would be proud.

- I hope so.

Can we run it again?

Yeah.

Everybody used to say,

"What would Walt think?"

I actually think about that a lot.

Walt would say,

"Never lose sight of the fact

that it was all started with a mouse."

But before Mickey Mouse,

it all started with Walt Disney.

One thing that Walt kept

in his office right until the end

was a hand-drawn map

of the farm here in Marceline.

And I-- I really like the idea

that even at the end of his life,

Walt was still thinking about that tree

where he first felt that spark.

Mickey is a thing we all share.

There aren't many of those around.

He's grown into

a necessary character for us.

Whenever I did chemo,

I had to have my Mickey Mouse shorts.

And this dark and dreary moment

that I was in--

I found a little hope, you know?

And I feel like

that's who Mickey Mouse is.

When I was 13,

I was granted a Make-A-Wish.

Then seeing Mickey, he just brought,

like, this, um, happiness out of me,

and, like, made me, uh, remember

that I was still a child.

That magical spark

I felt it and never forgot it.

Bye, Mickey!

At this point, I think Mickey is us.

So, wherever we're headed next,

he's coming with us.

I love that Disney

hides Mickey Mouses everywhere.

All over the park or any sort of property.

It's a little secret way of saying,

"Thank you, Mickey.

You still belong here."

And the cool thing about it is,

it doesn't stop there.

You'll leave, and then in real life,

you'll just notice

Mickey heads everywhere.

It's like, "Oh, my gosh.

Okay, wait a minute. Mickey, are you--

are you speaking to me?

Are you communicating to me?

What is happening here?

Why am I seeing you everywhere?"
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