Stutz (2022)

[bunniefuu]

[exhales]

[grunts, cries]

[man] What's up, Stutz?

[Stutz] Hi, Jonah.

[chuckles]

-[Stutz] Okay, entertain me.
-[both laugh]

[Jonah] That's actually what you say
when I sit down.

It's what I say to everybody.

Yeah, when we have a therapy session
that's not filmed for a movie.

[Stutz laughs]

The… the other thing you… you say
that always cracks me up, which is great,

is, "You better not come in here
and dump all your sh*t on me."

No, yeah, you know,
you've been dumping it on me for years,

and I'm tired.

[Jonah chuckles]

Well, here we are.

Why do you think
I'm making this movie about you?

I think it's… it's my ideas.

I… I think my ideas had an effect on you,

and I think you wanted
to expose other people to the ideas.

And maybe…

I don't know, maybe it's just an attempt
to gain control over me, or…

[Jonah laughs]

I'm not sure. Why did you?

Yeah, I have decided to make this
because I want to present your tools

and the teachings of you,
Phil Stutz, my therapist,

in a way that allows people to access them

and use them
to make their own life better.

So I thought
we would just film one session in one day

and cover some of your tools

that have been most helpful
for me in my life.

I think that's good.

And do it in a way that also honors,

um, the life of somebody
that I deeply care about and respect.

Okay.

But can you be funny
once in a while? Just…

-[laughs]
-["Lovesick Blues" by Mason Ramsey plays]

[Jonah] What's usually the first question
you ask a new patient?

The first thing I ask them is,
"What do you want? Why are you here?"

The average shrink will say,
"Don't intrude on the patient's process."

"They will come up with the answers
when they're ready."

That sucks. That's not acceptable.

When I got into psychiatry,
the model was, "I'm neutral."

"I'm just watching.
I have no dog in this fight."

It was a very slow process,
and there was a lot of suffering.

You know me, my reaction will be,

"Then go f*ck yourself.
Are you kidding me?"

[laughs]

If I'm dealing with someone
with depression like that,

who's afraid won't recover,

I say, "Do what the f*ck I tell you.
Do exactly what I tell you."

"I guarantee you'll feel better.
Guarantee, %. It's on me."

[Jonah] When I walked into your office,
we sat down,

and you were just like,
"Here's what you should do."

You gave me some form of action.
You gave me a tool.

Yeah, it's… it's imperative.

I wanted speed in this.

Not speed to cure somebody in a week.
That's impossible.

But I wanted them to feel some change,

some forward motion.

It gives them hope.

It's like, "Oh, sh*t,
that's actually possible."

So what are the tools?

A tool is something that can change
your state, your inner state,

immediately, in real time.

It takes an experience
that's normally unpleasant,

then it turns it into an opportunity.

Tools change your mood

and then just give you a sense of hope
that that won't be your mood forever.

[Stutz] That's correct.

[Jonah] It's basically
a real-time visualization exercise

you do in your head at that moment.

Yeah. So in that sense, I'm a teacher.

I'm teaching the person how to use it
and also teach them when to do it.

All of your patients, myself included,
we have all these note cards.

[Stutz laughs]

[Jonah] And they're drawings
of the tools that you do in our sessions

that we take home and keep.

[Stutz] I tend to think in visual terms.

So I started drawing these cards
really for myself,

but it helped the patients tremendously.

The power of the cards is that
they turn big ideas into simple images.

It was a way of communicating
with the patient

that I actually felt
was more powerful than using words.

The moment they take out the card,

there's a connection
between the two of us. There's a bond.

Yeah, we have
a uniquely personal relationship.

So much so that you're letting me
make a film about you.

That is something I've never experienced
in the therapeutic world.

And, ultimately,

my life has gotten immeasurably better
as a result of working with you,

and so, if it worked for me,
maybe it will work for other people.

-[alarm blares]
-Um…

Oh, yeah. Time for medicine.

-Time for what?
-[Jonah] Time to take your medicine.

-Oh, thanks.
-[Jonah] The alarm went off.

[Stutz] Oh, sh*t.

[grunts]

Jonah, you want to do
some Parkinson's dr*gs with me?

[Jonah laughs]

I kicked the stuff years ago, man.

[Stutz] You know, when I was a kid,
when I was using dr*gs,

if you ever told me, " years hence
you'd be taking all this medicine…"

So that's all medicine
for your Parkinson's?

Yeah.

With Parkinson's, the biggest thing is,
and there's something good about this,

you have to preplan
a lot of little things.

When I have to get out of bed,

I have to go through contortions
to get out of the bed.

The hardest thing for me in life
is getting out of bed in the morning.

-But for very different reasons.
-For different… [chuckles] Yeah.

So, before meeting you, my experience
with therapy was very traditional

in the sense of I would be talking

and the person would say,
"How does that feel?"

-Or, "Interesting." [laughs]
-[Stutz] Right.

Basically keeping me
at a massive distance.

Yeah.

[Jonah] And I was thinking about how,
in traditional therapy,

you're paying this person, and you save
all of your problems for them,

and they just listen,

and your friends, who are idiots,

give you advice.

-[Stutz] Yes.
-Unsolicited.

-[Stutz] Yes.
-And you want your friends just to listen.

[laughs]

And you want your therapist
to give you advice.

Here's the thing.

The shrinks,
it's not that they don't want to help you.

It's really not.

But for me, I always felt
there was something missing.

So a tool is a bridge

between what you realize the problem is
and the cause of the problem

to over here,

actually gaining at least some control
over the symptom.

It all has to do with possibility.

And not a bullshit definition
of possibility.

Possibility means
you feel yourself reacting differently.

It sounds, um…

What do you call it? Trite.
But it's actually the truth.

[Jonah] One of the first things
you got me working on was my life force.

That was such an immediate thing
that can change your life

and something that I think
anyone can easily latch onto.

And it was the first step for me

in beginning the process
of getting better.

Yeah, that's correct.
Here's the classic thing that happens.

A guy's depressed,
he comes into my office, and he says,

"I know my habits are sh*t."

"I… I… I know I'm undisciplined.
I know I'm lazy."

"But if I only knew
what I was supposed to be doing,

what my mission was in life, essentially,
I'd be like I was sh*t out of a g*n."

"But I don't know
what I'm supposed to be doing,

so I'm just gonna be lazy and do nothing."

Then, from that,
obviously comes the depression.

There's something
that… that will apply to you

and to anybody else
who doesn't have a sense of direction

or doesn't know what they should do next,

and the answer is,
you can always work on your life force.

[piano music plays]

The only way to find out what
you should be doing, like who you are,

is to activate your life force,

because your life force
is the only part of you

that actually is capable
of guiding you when you're lost.

If you think of it as a pyramid,
there's three levels of the life force.

The bottom level is your relationship
with your physical body.

The second layer
is your relationship with other people.

And the highest level
is your relationship with yourself.

The bottom step is your relationship
to your physical body.

All you gotta do is get your body
working better, and it always works.

The most classic thing
is they're not exercising.

Diet is another one,

and sleeping.

So what percentage of that stuff

is what makes you
actually feel better at first?

Well, when it starts out,

it's probably %.

It's very high.

[Jonah] How f*cking crazy is that?

When I was a kid,

exercise and diet
was framed to me in like,

"There's something wrong
with how you look."

But never once was exercise or diet

propositioned to me
in terms of mental health.

I just wish
that was presented to people differently.

Yeah.

[Jonah] Because, for me,

that caused a lot of problems

and even problems with me and my mom.

I really met her,
like, with an attitude of,

"f*ck you, I don't want to do that,

because you're saying
there's something wrong with me."

Yeah? Explain that.

Um, I can, but I'm not gonna go into it,
'cause this movie is about you, not me.

But what if I said
the more you elaborate on it,

the easier it's gonna be
for me to take some chances.

Did you ever think of it like that?

I would say
you should make a movie about me,

instead of me making a movie about you.

[both laugh]

Yeah, that's a good one.

Okay. So that's the first level.

The next one
is your relationship to other people,

'cause when people get depressed,

it's not that they end
their relationships.

It's like a ship disappearing
over the horizon.

They start to get pulled back,
away from their life,

and relationships are like--

You know those things when you're climbing
a mountain, pounding those pitons,

it's like a handhold.

So your relationships are like handholds
to let yourself get pulled back into life.

The key of it
is you have to take the initiative.

If you're waiting for them to the take
the initiative, you don't understand.

You could invite somebody out to lunch
that you don't find interesting,

it doesn't matter, it will
affect you anyway, in a positive way.

That person represents
the whole human race, symbolically.

So that's the middle tier,

and the highest tier
is your relationship with yourself.

The best way to say it is to get yourself
in a relationship with your unconscious,

because nobody knows
what's in their unconscious

unless they activate it.

And one trick about this is writing.

It's really a magical thing.

You enhance your relationship
with yourself by writing.

Some people say, "Well, write what?"

"I'm not interesting.
I'm not a writer." It doesn't matter.

If you start to write,
the writing is like a mirror.

It reflects what's going on
in your unconscious,

and things will come out
if you write in journal form

that you didn't know that you knew.

These are the three levels
of the life force.

If you're lost,
don't try to figure it out.

Let it go
and work on your life force first.

It's about passion.

Increasing your life force

so you can find out
what you're really passionate about.

But step one is to be passionate
about connecting to your own life force,

and anybody can do that.

[Jonah] If I just do that pyramid,
everything else seems to fall into place?

It will.
Everything else will fall in place.

[Jonah] So how do you come up
with this stuff?

Well, I once had a supervisor--
I was very young.

I didn't even have my own practice yet.

I'm talking to people about
what happened years ago in their life

or what was the cause of their problem.

They would walk out
the same way they walked in,

feeling like sh*t and basically hopeless.

So I said to him,

"Is there anything we can do
so that they can feel better,

feel something at least, sooner?"

And the guy…
[chuckles] The guy says to me,

"Don't you dare," he says.

It was like somebody who fundamentally
didn't understand the human condition.

I said, "Wait, we have to do something
right at the moment."

It doesn't have to solve
all their problems,

but you have to give somebody the feeling
that they can change right now.

I didn't want people walking out
of my office with nothing.

Did you ever worry, with that strategy,
you'd give them the wrong piece of action?

No.

In this area, as I always say,

I'm just a regular person,
nothing unusual, except for this.

I zoom in on you,
and I block out everything else.

Since I was a little kid,
people have always walked up to me

and told me their problems. A little kid.

I would be ten years old,
and a grown man would come up to me.

Most of them I didn't even know.
They're just pouring their hearts out.

Who knows where that comes from.

[melancholic music plays]

I was in the Bronx till I was five.
Then we moved down to Manhattan.

[Jonah] Where in Manhattan?

The first place was th and Broadway.
West th Street.

It was regular,
middle-class, working people.

My father was a very nice guy.

He was loud, opinionated.

He loved to entertain.

If it was up to him, he would have people
over to the house every single night,

and she hated it.

My mother told me, she said,
on a beautiful sunny day in the Bronx,

a trillion kids
out playing in the streets,

she told me her favorite thing
was to stay indoors and read a book.

Her thing was, "Stay off my case.
Stay away from me."

"I want to get lost in this book
because life is too painful."

"I don't wanna deal with life.
I wanna deal with this book."

So you can see these two people,
there was big problems.

[Jonah] What time period? The 's?

Yeah. That was, like, uh… '.

It's probably…

Let's see, he-- When did he die?

[melancholic music continues]

[Jonah] What was your brother's name
who passed away?

[Stutz] His name was Eddie.
The one that d*ed, yeah.

They knew immediately.

It was a certain kind of tumor
that has a certain kind of rash, I think.

The doctor, he told me years later,

he said he knew the moment
he walked into the room what it was.

But my parents didn't tell us.
It was a mistake.

[Jonah] How old are you when he dies?
You're nine?

Yeah, I was nine. Yeah.

[Jonah] And he was three?

He was three, yeah.

I would go into the bathroom.

I remember,
I'd put one foot up on the toilet bowl,

like I was some kind of a medieval knight
or something,

and I talked to God, and I said to God,

"If you let him live,
I will believe in you."

"If you don't, I won't."
Obviously, I had to overcome that.

Any time I'm in New York,
I try to go past that building.

I like to stand in the spot

where we were standing
when my father came up to us.

My mother gets out of the cab

and just walks right into the building
and takes the elevator upstairs.

She didn't even look at us.

Seriously, I asked my mother,
"Can I go back to school?"

And she said,
"Yeah, you can do anything you want."

And I did.

And I think that was part of my denial.

Everybody was moving quickly
to deny what was happening.

Everybody was avidly
not accepting what was going on.

That was Part X. Part X was in my mind

before I understood any of this.

[melancholic music continues]

[Jonah] Part X is such a major part
of understanding how your tools work,

so I wanted to talk about that.

So, when adversity comes,

it's an opportunity for you to--

At that moment,
you're gonna face Part X directly.

Part X is the judgmental part of you,

the antisocial part of you.

It's an invisible… force

that wants to keep you
from changing or growing.

It wants to block your evolution.

It wants to block your potential.

It wants to f*ck up your sh*t.

So Part X would be the villain

in the story of being a person.

The tools are what the hero on the journey
can use to fight the villain.

Yes. Part X is the voice of impossibility.

Whatever it is you think you need to do,
it's gonna tell you that's impossible.

"Give up."

It gives you a very specific dossier
about who you are, what you're capable of.

And it creates
this, like, primal fear in human beings.

What does your Part X say to you?

It makes me feel like I'm wasting time.

It tells me I've invented all this stuff,

and the stuff is great,
I'm very confident, but it'll never--

It won't spread deeply enough
into the culture.

[Jonah] So how can people
get rid of Part X?

You can't.

You can defeat him temporarily,
but he's always gonna keep coming back.

That's why you have three aspects
of reality that nobody gets to avoid.

Pain, uncertainty,

and constant work.

So those are things
you're just gonna have to live with,

no matter what.

If it did work like that,
if you could banish Part X,

then there'd be no further progress.

So if this is a story, the main character
needs Part X, needs the villain,

because if the main character
doesn't have to overcome a villain,

there's no story.

-[Stutz] Right.
-There's no growth.

There's no change. There's no bravery.
There's no courageousness.

We need the negativity of Part X,
or else we don't grow.

[Stutz] Yeah, that's correct.

It doesn't mean
you can't, um, work very hard at a goal.

It doesn't mean you can't succeed.

But if you wanna be happy--
'Cause that won't make you happy.

What will make you happy is the process.

You have to learn how to love the process
of dealing with those three things.

That's where the tools come in.

When it appears, you can identify it,

and then, you can use a tool on it
to nullify it.

If you can teach someone to do that,
they can change their whole life.

Because the highest creative expression
for a human being

is to be able to create something new
right in the face of adversity,

and the worse the adversity,
the greater the opportunity.

[melancholic music ends]

Finding out that he'd d*ed was like…

It was like discovering a new world.

And I said, "Wow,
that could happen to me? I'm just a kid."

That was one of the biggest effects
it had on me,

besides the fact
that my parents collapsed.

They couldn't quite function
as parents emotionally.

They just couldn't do it.

[Jonah] Do you…

Can you blame them?

No, I've never blamed them for that.

Thank God.

Yeah.

It changed my whole life,
because everything had a double meaning.

If I'd go to play softball or something
and I had a time to be back for dinner,

if I was like--

I swear, if I was one minute late,
they would just go nuts.

Childhood was over.

Everything was serious.
You didn't want to f*ck it up.

His death became this giant weight
that I had to carry around,

but nobody would admit
the f*cking weight was there.

I'll never forget this.
A friend of mine, he was badly hurt.

I went with my father
to visit him in the hospital,

and on the way out,
my father turns around, and he says,

"That's the only profession."

Meaning, "If you do anything else
but become a doctor,

you're persona non grata over here."

"I love you,
but if you don't become a doctor,

I'll never respect you."

He and my mother were both atheists,
so they had nothing to fall back on.

It was a fight against death,
and if I didn't join the fight,

the whole family was gonna fall apart.

Right, so you had a responsibility
to satiate their nerves and anxiety.

You became their therapist.

That's right. That's exactly right.

So they had nothing in terms of, uh…

[Jonah] Faith?

Yeah, in terms of that would support them
in having any faith.

They only had one thing
that could lead to faith,

and that was me.

You see how these things get passed down.

And I… I tried my best.

Total failure, obviously. [chuckles]

I… I… I guess I did do one thing.

I became a doctor.

So, um…

So at least maybe something constructive
came out of it.

Beginning to see patients
was like a joke for me.

It was just a change of venue.
I had done it so much.

And I wasn't bad at it,
even when I was .

[Jonah] Hmm.

[Stutz] Yeah.

Hey, are we gonna continue
these sessions a few times a week

where I'm the patient? [chuckles]

[laughs]

It'd be nice
if you answered more of these questions.

In fact, it would be nice
if you answered even one of them.

Um…

We talked about my brother.
Can we talk about yours?

It must have stirred up something in you.

[Jonah] Well…

Hmm.

No, I-- No, we're not gonna get
into that, um…

[Stutz] Okay.

I think I should take a break.
What time-- Oh, sh*t. Huh.

[Jonah] Yeah.

Yeah.

Dude, that was amazing.

I feel fried.

Yeah, you know, I told you
to ask easier questions. It's on you.

[Jonah laughs]

Do you want my notes
on your directing or acting?

[Jonah laughs] Save it for my session.

[piano music plays]

[piano music continues]

[exhales deeply]

[laughs] What is taking so long, dude?

[door opens]

[door closes]

Watch the tracks.

[Stutz] You're in this too?

-[clattering]
-[Jonah] Yeah. Oh, sh*t. [chuckles]

[Stutz chuckles]

-How are you?
-[Jonah] Good to see ya.

I'm gonna use a tool first. Is that okay?

Yeah, absolutely.

[Jonah inhales, exhales]

[Jonah exhales]

Okay. [inhales]

[Jonah exhales deeply]

I feel like making this movie
is very complicated for a lot of reasons.

You're my therapist,

and if I was having trouble
with something,

you'd be who I would talk to about it.

[Stutz] Mm-hmm.

[Jonah] But then when that feeling
comes up about this movie,

I'm hesitant, and I stop it,

because this film is about you,

and I feel like
I have to pretend everything is great

even when it's not.

I've…

been lying to you
in our private therapy sessions

about how the movie's going.

So I've essentially

been paying you to lie to you,

and that left me feeling
more and more alone.

[Stutz] Hmm.

I'm trying to land these massive ideas.

-[Stutz] Right.
-And these--

And also tell the story of your life,
but I just feel stuck.

And I just keep asking myself, like,

"Was this a f*cking terrible idea

for a patient to make a movie
about his therapist?" [laughs]

Like I laugh about it, you know?

But what I got to was like,
why am I, like, hiding

behind perfection?

Why am I hiding behind a facade
instead of letting you in on it?

Which felt like the only choice to me.

It is.

How can I make a movie
where I'm talking about people

being vulnerable
and working on their problems

and not be vulnerable myself?

It doesn't feel fair.

-And so…
-Hmm.

…if the choice is to be fair and honest,

then I should acknowledge that, like,

we've been sh**ting for two years,

and we're wearing
the same clothes every day,

pretending it's one session,

but it's been years.

And we're on a green screen.

We're not in your office.

And I'm literally wearing a wig right now

to make it look like it was
eight months ago when I had this haircut,

and I literally have, like,

a shaved head.

I, like…

I don't know.

It just feels… weird and false.

I want to let the audience in
on the filmmaking process, and you,

so they don't feel like
we're just lying to them about sh*t.

And I'm lying to you and lying
to everyone else that it's going well,

and that sucks.

We're probably gonna be
watching this scene,

and there's gonna be stuff we sh*t
eight months ago, months ago.

Like… [scoffs]

It's just hard to know
what is what at this point.

But ultimately, I just came to the truth,
which is just letting you in on it.

Does that feel f*cked-up?

It feels like the only choice you have,
to be honest.

If you want to stay with the truth of me
and what we're trying to do,

then you have to let yourself f*ck it up.

If you could do it perfectly,

it would contradict
everything that we're doing here.

So I'm thrilled that you--

I kind of suspected this anyway,
because we're getting--

First of all, we're getting so many days,
you know, so I said--

[both laugh]

I said, "This is probably
the greatest documentary ever made

or the worst," and it's probably both.

[laughs]

But listen,
it has to eventually get intimate,

and once things get intimate,

you don't know
what the f*ck is gonna happen.

If I've trained you properly,

you can just see
that is not something to avoid.

The failure would be not rolling with it
and not using it to go deeper.

The driving force in this whole thing,
to me, is your vulnerability.

[splutters] No question about it.

If we're true to that idea
and you're forthcoming with it,

we really can't go wrong, because--

-But this movie is about you.
-[Stutz] No, no, not at all.

To me, this is just one more thing.

My life doesn't depend on it.

Your life-- Okay,
maybe your life depends on it.

-[both laugh]
-[Stutz] Just teasing.

My mind says I want to aggressively
and honestly talk about two things.

One is my relationship with you,

and the second thing
is the actual power of these tools.

So how do I go deeper? Like, how do I--

-There's only one way.
-Huh?

You.

The thing is, if you wanna move forward…

[splutters] …you can't move forward
without being vulnerable.

And the reason is
everybody needs help in moving forward.

Failure, weakness, vulnerability
is like a, um…

It's like a connector.
It connects you to the rest of the world.

Because what you're doing is,

you're giving out
this signal to the world,

"I need you
because I can't do this by myself."

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

I think what would be a good idea,

maybe I should show you some of the movie,

and we can kind of figure out
how we wanna complete it.

And, like, for us to be in that together
if you're down for that?

I am, yeah. I'm really touched.

Um, frankly, I'm relieved also.

So yes, it would be great. It'll be great.
It'll be like an experiment.

Yeah. All right, cool.

Okay, I'm down.

[laughs]

I love you, dude.

Cut. [laughs]

Oh, you guys were filming?

[laughs]

[Jonah]
Why do you think I'm making a doc on you?

I think it's… it's my ideas.

I… I think my ideas had an effect on you,

and I think you wanted
to expose other people to the ideas.

You want to do some Parkinson's dr*gs?

-[laughs]
-[both laugh on laptop]

[Jonah] I kicked the stuff years ago, man.

[piano music plays]

[Jonah] So we had to build a fake set
of your office on the green screen

to make it seem like we've been here
this whole time.

-[Stutz] It's nicer than my real office.
-[Jonah laughs] Yeah.

Part X. And then,
so when you're watching the movie…

-Like, a view of-- [laughs]
-We never had insurance for that.

[Jonah] We've ripped the Band-Aid off.

We've told you where I'm at
and the truth of it.

Where do we go from here?

It feels to me
like we have to stay very grounded

and, at the same time,
reach for the stars.

I'm not sure how to do both of those
at the same time.

But anything that's real
and that's profound

has to have two, not one,
because it's a vibratory thing.

[Jonah] Ooh!

Two people can create a field,
and a field is invisible,

but that's the force in the universe
that makes things happen.

You can see that
in your personal relationships.

You can see it in the global events
that are happening now.

What we're doing here

is giving ourselves over to something
that we can't fully understand.

But whatever it is out there,
whatever it is up there,

it wants to have
a connection to everybody.

[Jonah laughs]

[Stutz] The shame, embarrassment,

is actually the glue
that holds the universe together.

It's in that experience that you're forced
to connect to somebody else.

Anyway, things won't be perfect.

In a filming sense or an artistic sense,
something might not work out,

but in its impossibility,
something's gonna happen.

This is my real hair, by the way.

[laughs]

What? What's the matter?
Wait, what's the matter?

What you have to say is,
"I'm gonna do the best I can now."

"I'll go to the next thing
and do the best I can there."

And it sounds trite and superficial,
but believe me, it's not.

Great, so you're saying the worse it is,
the better we did?

-[Stutz] Yes.
-Great.

Isn't that how Hollywood works in general?

-[Jonah laughs]
-I always thought. I don't know.

All right, well,
then let's just keep going.

[melancholic music plays]

[Stutz] If you have the tools,
we can turn this around.

So we have to keep going.

Keep going.

It seems stupid.
Isn't that, like, simplistic?

It is, but we want to say, "I'm the one
who puts the next pearl on the string."

That's all. Nothing else.

That's called the String of Pearls.

That's probably the most important thing,
motivationally, you could teach yourself.

You just draw a string of pearls.

There's a line then a circle,
line then a circle.

Each one of those circles
equals one action.

But here's the thing.

Every action has the same value.

This is a matter of identity. "Who am I?"

"I'm not great. I'm not sh*t.
I don't want to look at myself and think…"

I look at myself just in terms
of the habits with which I take action.

If there's a failure
or a big success, by the way, either way,

you're gonna keep going.

I am the person that puts
the next pearl on the string. That's it.

So essentially getting out of bed
in the morning is a string of pearls.

-Just getting out of bed…
-Yes.

…and doing what you have to do that day

and not putting,
like, a size value on the effort.

-[Stutz] That's right.
-They're all the same size.

The beautiful thing about you,
even though you're an assh*le,

is that you never stop.

You have that.
You have a taste for uncertainty.

The first session we had, you said that
true confidence is living in uncertainty.

Yeah, and moving forward.

The winner is not the one who always makes
the best decisions or looks the best.

The winner is the one
who works that cycle.

In other words,
who's willing to take a risk,

will interact with some degree of faith,
and then eats the consequences.

If the consequences are bad,
then you gotta work the cycle again.

That's as good as it gets.

Now, here's the thing.

In every one of these little circles,
there's a little darker circle,

much smaller,
and the darker circle is a turd.

It's kind of funny in a way,
but what it says is every effort you make…

Let's say now.
We're trying to do this film.

However this comes out,
it's not gonna come out perfectly.

So there's gonna be a turd in it.

It's like I don't know if this is good,
so I don't have to worry about that.

I have to worry about forward motion,
putting the next pearl on the string.

I'll tell you, my life philosophy
has turned into the opposite of that.

So instead of a turd inside of a pearl,

there's a pearl around every turd.

Because when something bad happens,
I go, like, "There's a lot to be learned

and a lot of good around this event."

That's fantastic.
I'm gonna steal that one.

Well, I'll sue you.

[laughs] I love you. I don't care.

Good. I'll see you in court.

[both laugh]

If this whole movie ends

in, like, a ten-year, bitter lawsuit
between the two of us…

It's very intimate. It's cool.

[upbeat music plays]

[Jonah] So meeting you
and starting our process

was out of desperation to get happier.

It's hard to say.
It's just I had no… healthy self-esteem.

Right.

Having grown up overweight

was something, um,
that sounds like not a big deal

or like, "Poor you," or whatever.

But for me personally,

it intensely f*cked me up.

You explained to me the idea of a Shadow.

It's the version of yourself that you want
to hide from the world the most.

And this is what I pictured that day.
Me at .

When I met you, I was , maybe.

I had an incredible amount of success,

was in really great shape, physically.

All things that should have rendered
this idea of myself nonexistent…

Mm-hmm.

…but what you explained to me
was that this is how I saw myself,

and I was denying myself

because I felt so much shame about…

-[Stutz] Right.
-…that this was me.

I thought, if I got successful,
they wouldn't see that.

And then I did, and then all people did
was just say more of that,

and it hurt.

And then I still felt like this person,

and that… still resides in me
in a way that comes up.

So inherently, at my core,
I'm still this unlovable person,

but the work is, like, inching towards

not only accepting
but, like, bringing this--

-That it's great to be this person.
-Yes.

But that's still very hard.

Yeah, it'll be hard
for the rest of your life.

[piano music plays]

[Stutz] Everybody has a Shadow.
Everybody's Shadow is a bit different,

but on the other hand,
everybody's Shadow is the same,

because it's the part of themselves
they're ashamed of.

The first thing you want to do
is find your Shadow.

You have to be able to see this thing
to focus on it

and to know how to work with it.

[splutters] You need a visual.

So close your eyes.

Now visualize a time in your life

when you felt inferior,
embarrassed, rejected, despondent,

that you're ashamed of it.

It's the part of you
that you wish you were not,

but you are, and not only that,
you can't get rid of it.

To me, it's a -year-old boy
who's very overweight and has acne

and feels very undesirable to the world.

Okay. The question is, "What do you do
with that image in the present?"

That's something from the past, right?

Talk to your Shadow
and ask him how does he feel about you.

How you've dealt with him,
how you've treated him.

And see what he answers.

He says, "You've denied my existence,

and you felt shame at my mere existence."

Ask him how he feels about that.

Unbelievably hurt, angry, and upset.

Now, listen very carefully.

The Shadow needs attention,

but he needs the attention
not from the world.

He doesn't need an Academy Award.

The only being whose attention matters
to your Shadow is you.

I want you to ask your Shadow,
what can you do

to make up for

the fact that you didn't pay attention
to him for such a long time?

[piano music plays]

[inhales, exhales]

He says to include him in my life

and share my life with him
and celebrate him.

And be proud of me.

Meaning in, like, a social setting
or a work setting or a romantic setting,

where you're not acknowledging
this person,

and it's not only okay that they exist,
but they are a beautiful part of you.

[Stutz] All right. Open your eyes.

This is a tool that will hopefully make
your relationship with your Shadow better.

This is good for shyness.

It's good if you have to make
a public presentation.

It's even good if you have to confront
your spouse. It doesn't really matter.

Or you're going on a date.

Or anything that's, like,
high-stakes or high-pressure,

where you feel you have to be
your, quote-unquote, unflawed, best self.

Yeah. Our goal
is not to give a good performance.

Our goal is to use this tool
and then tolerate whatever happens.

Yeah, because if I'm content
with my true self,

then other people's opinions
just affect me way, way less.

So you understand
what we're talking about,

it's not how this looks
or if it looks good or bad.

It's the process
of constantly relating to it that matters.

If you don't pay him respect,
or attention is the best word for it,

he'll make you do things
that are actually destructive.

So it's both a tool that will make you
feel better in the moment,

and it's also a philosophy about,
"Where am I going as a human being?"

And the idea of being
in sync with the Shadow,

it's a sense of wholeness.

Wholeness means
I don't need anything else.

"I'm whole the way I am."
And that's very freeing.

Whoops. Sorry.

Please don't kick my Shadow.

Very good. I'm sorry.

-Did he hurt you?
-[Stutz laughs]

Did the weird man hurt you?

See, I love him now.
I have to take care of him.

-You can come home with me.
-[laughs]

[piano music plays]

I met you five years ago,
and I had no confidence as a human being.

-I just didn't invest in myself.
-Right.

And, like, understand how to like myself.

I just worked to achieve this thing,

which is your idea of the Snapshot.

[Stutz] That's correct.

So this is also called
the Realm of Illusion.

Again, it's a classic Part X thing.

It means that you are looking
for a perfect experience.

So it could be the perfect wife,
the perfect amount of money in the bank,

the perfect movie.

It doesn't matter.
Whatever it is, it doesn't exist.

It's just an image in your own mind.
Think about this.

What is the nature of a snapshot?

It has no movement, right? It's still.

And it has no depth.

But in this case,
you've taken this Snapshot,

and you've crippled yourself with it.

You fantasize.

People tell themselves,
if they can enter that perfect world,

then magic will happen.

But you can't forget

there are three aspects of reality.

The pain will never go away.
Uncertainty will never go away.

And there's no getting away
from the need for constant work.

Everybody has to live like that,
no matter what.

Before I met you,
I'm this, like, wildly insecure kid,

and then, uh, I think

success and awards
will absolve me of the pain of life.

So I work so hard to get to that Snapshot,

and because of my privilege and luck,

I got to go into that Snapshot
relatively early,

and when it didn't cure any of that stuff,

it made me beyond depressed.

Yes.

At the same time, the media
kept kind of like being really brutal

about my weight.

It was just kind of free game
for anyone to sort of… hit my sore spot.

It made me so defensive.

Like almost anticipating
someone saying something mean.

And I'd be so angry.

[Stutz] Mm-hmm.

It kept me from feeling
any sense of, like,

able to grow past
negative feelings about myself

and made me more ashamed of my Shadow.

And it wasn't until more recently,
my thirties, when I met you,

that's when I learned
to take steps towards locking that out

or forming my own opinion of self.

Does that make sense?

-You know?
-[chews]

Here, wait, let's--
Are you chewing on something?

Yeah.

-[laughs]
-[man talks indistinctly]

We're making a movie, dude!

[both laugh]

You should've told me that
before you invited me.

He's f*cking eating chocolate!
You have any calls you wanna take?

[laughs] I do,
but let's see how this goes.

[laughing] Um…

Sorry, I'm checking my notes real quick.

[Stutz] That's just--

I just wrote down about
I banged your mother. Just cross it out.

[laughs]

The irony of the banging your mom joke
is my mom is coming here tomorrow,

and we literally are gonna do a session
with you, me, and my mom.

-Get the f*ck out.
-[Jonah] I'm not even kidding.

Well, don't tell her I…

-No, I'm gonna tell her.
-[Stutz laughs]

Um…

-[Jonah] Okay.
-Hi.

-Hi, guys.
-I like that color on you.

-Thank you.
-You look nice.

Thank you.

This is my mom, Sharon.

-Sharon, hi. I'm Phil.
-Nice to meet you.

Great to meet you.

Great to meet you.

Yeah, so I don't know.

I was thinking
about my first experience with therapy.

We were at a nutritionist's office,

and we were arguing so much
that the nutritionist said,

-"You guys should go see a therapist."
-% correct.

The doctor was like,
"Jonah should lose weight,"

and so you were like, as a mom,
"sh*t, I should listen to the doctor

and take him to a nutritionist."

To be perfectly honest,
I would say I didn't need him to tell me.

I maybe might have thought
that you should lose some weight.

And I kinda don't want to go to the past,
but you have to go to the past sometimes,

because my mother specifically was
extremely small, and so was my sister,

and I was always talked to about,
"You're big like your dad."

"You're the bigger one.
You need to lose weight."

And I think it gave me so much anxiety

when either I didn't look that way
or my kids didn't look that way

that, I feel like, instead of thinking
about what I was doing,

I was just doing what I thought was right.

-[Stutz] Mm-hmm.
-If that makes sense.

Yeah, I'm not like trying att*ck you
or anything like that.

So you see me being an overweight kid,

and I feel that,
and the doctor feels that,

and society has its own constructs
why that's defective or wrong.

So, I'm like, "I am not good."

"I am bad."

"I don't look correct for the world."

And you have to be the person

that is attempting to correct that,
for whatever those reasons are.

Right.

It immediately put you
in the position of being adversarial.

Of like, "This is the person
that doesn't… accept me."

It's the idea that the woman figure
will not accept how you look.

I do not place blame on you,

because I also now understand,
and have already understood for a while,

how much you felt like me in your family.

[Stutz] Hmm.

[Jonah] I just want to let you know
how it affected my life.

Right.

Because for me, sometimes it's easier
to have conversations like this

in this form for whatever reason than it--

Thank you, Jonah. I appreciate that.

[Sharon and Jonah laugh]

I want to say thank you,
because you've never articulated it

as "the female figure in your life
not accepting the way that you look,"

and I never thought of it that way.

I tried to just fix it

without even thinking about how me
telling you to do this would affect you.

Just so we get this straight,
it's not this or that.

That's not the point.

No matter how clear the past is for you,

for you, the question is, what's going on
now between the two of you,

and what do you need?

-Did you ever think about that?
-I do, sometimes.

Uh-huh.

And can you tell us what you think?

Um…

-You can speak honestly.
-[Sharon] I know. I'm thinking.

I would like
a little bit more consistency.

Sometimes, I feel like Jonah comes to me,

but I am his mother,
when he needs to talk to me.

And when he's, like, super happy,
it's like I'm in no-man's-land somewhere.

I'm not in his mind or relevant.
I don't know.

I just like time with Jonah,

because I think we have
a real relationship.

We've been through a lot,
and I think our relationship is deep,

but sometimes I get anxious.

When I'm like-- If I think that he's
not gonna either like what I say or…

I don't know.
It's hard to articulate, but…

Articulate that.

I'm trying.

I find myself holding back
from being exactly myself

because I don't want him
to think a certain way about me.

[Stutz] Did you know that?

[inhales deeply]

I didn't know that.

But sometimes I react poorly

when I feel you're not listening to others
and eating up the air or space.

Right, I know.

But I think it's cool for me to hear,
like, notes on what I could do better

or what she needs
to make the relationship better

in this context, honestly,
'cause I won't feel as defensive.

-You mean if there's a third party here?
-[Jonah] Yeah.

Speaking of,
Phil mentioned something yesterday.

He said you guys were together intimately.

[laughs]

-Wanna address that?
-[Sharon] He's joking.

No, he said that. We have it on film.

He wouldn't forget, trust me. [laughs]

There you go.

-There you go.
-Dude, f*ck.

I think this could be
a good time to wrap now.

[laughs]

-I think it's time.
-All right.

Um, well, one thing
before we do, actually. Not a joke.

Like, did you ever have--
Not like this, literally,

but did you ever have
this kind of emotionally open conversation

with your mom ever?

No, not even close.

If she was around now, would you?

Now? Yeah.

Yeah.

[piano music plays]

You gotta understand,
my mother was from a different planet.

Her father, he was, uh, a psychopath.

So he would come in
and b*at the sh*t out of his wife

and also the youngest one
but never touched my mother,

and that was
the worst t*rture for her of all.

So I think, by the time
she was eight, nine years old,

she wouldn't say a word to him.

, the height of the Depression,
he just ups and leaves.

He doesn't say anything,
doesn't tell them he's leaving.

In the middle of the night,
he books. He's gone.

Forty years later,
he tried to, um, contact my mother,

but my mother is hard-core. Forget it.
I don't think she answered the letter.

She had this thing with men,
for obvious reasons.

Every night at dinner,
she'd give a tirade about men.

"Men are this, men are that."
I couldn't really disagree with her.

My poor father
had to be the cheerleader for this.

-[Jonah] What would he do?
-He'd say, "Yeah, she's right."

-[Jonah laughs]
-"Men are terrible."

It didn't occur to me until I was
about , . "sh*t, I'm a man. Hmm."

But she couldn't get over that,
even years later.

-Couldn't get over it.
-[Jonah] She's stuck in the Maze.

She's stuck in the Maze
for years, years, yeah.

["Lovesick Blues" by Mason Ramsey plays]

The Maze always involves other people.

It's the product of Part X,

because Part X wants fairness.

A classic example

is when somebody only wants
to think and talk about another person.

What you're telling yourself is,

"I'll move past this
once they make up for whatever it is,

being angry at me, cheating."

It doesn't matter what.

You feel they've mistreated you,

and your quest for fairness
puts your life on hold.

Time is fleeting,
and we don't have time for that bullshit.

[Jonah] I feel like I spent
my whole f*cking life in the Maze.

Being stuck on not being paid back
for something I was viewing as unfair

wasted hours, days, months,
years of my life that I can't get back.

So how could she have gotten out
of the Maze?

[Stutz] Here's the thing.
The average person wants to get paid back.

They want everything to be fair.
They want everything to be balanced.

But you're not gonna get it from them.

The way you feel you're getting paid,

the way you feel
things are being rebalanced,

is to get your satisfaction
from the exercise itself.

That's called Active Love.

["Lovesick Blues"
by Mason Ramsey continues]

So close your eyes

and imagine you're surrounded
by a universe completely made out of love.

I know it sounds nuts,
but just shut the f*ck up.

Do what I tell you.

-[laughs]
-Don't prejudge it and see what happens.

Let me try to define it.

It's just… It's a world
that's almost dense with loving energy.

Feel yourself taking in
all the love in the universe,

and gently, but firmly,
place all of it in your heart.

Right at that moment,
you're the principal leader of love

in the whole universe.

What you do is you want
to see the person you're angry at,

that you hate, that you despise,

and you send
all this love you've concentrated

towards the other person.

You hold nothing back.
You give everything.

You feel, not just see,

you feel your love
enter the other person's body.

It's very important.

For a minute, you become one.

At that point, you feel like,
"If I can become one with this bastard,

I can become one with anybody."

And that's the sense of prowess,
almost of mastery.

People say, "Well, you're asking me
to love somebody I hate."

It's not a way to forgive somebody.
It's not for the other person.

It's to make you feel whole
and then free you from the Maze.

Then you can move forward.

So do you wanna be right,
or do you wanna create something?

That's what it always comes down to.

Life is moving forward.

If you want to waste your time
playing games over here, you can,

but you can't get those days, hours back.

When she got older,
she became a community organizer,

and she was awesome.

If you asked her, "What was your job?"
she would say, "Organizing rent strikes."

"That's what I do for a living."
She wasn't scared of anybody.

In fact, the mayor of New York sees
my mother and says, "Wait a minute."

"I will not proceed with this negotiation
until Rosalie Stutz leaves."

[laughs] And they had to make her leave.

He was scared to death of her.

[Jonah] She turned her tragedy with men
into a superpower

of not being scared of them
and getting great good done.

Yeah, she did.

[Jonah] How do you think that affects you,

having your mom hate men
and you being a man?

Um…

I can feel everybody
waiting for the answer,

but I don't know
if I know exactly the answer.

I know one thing for sure. [chuckles]

It made me insecure around women.
I mean, that's a no-brainer.

[piano music plays]

It was like there was no pathway inside me

that could step to a woman and feel safe.

I guess that's the best way to say it.

[Jonah] Because you think
your mom's reaction to you

was to, like, cut you down,

and so you couldn't see a way with women
where you could feel safe?

Yeah. It wasn't even
on my list of expectations.

The way she would make me feel is,
"You have no right to even be doing this."

I overcame it a little bit, but not--

I didn't overcome it emotionally
so much as I did just behaviorally.

Do you think it made it hard
to trust women, like, overall?

Not-- Well, is it… Now?

It's not that much of an issue now.

I'll tell you one thing,
I'd be a much better partner now

than I was years ago.

Although that's a very low bar.

[chuckling] That's a very low bar.

[Jonah] Where do you stand personally
on romantic relationships?

You mean am I in one, you mean?

[Jonah] Yeah, are you in one?

No, I'm not in one. Um…

[Jonah] Did you ever override
that wall that was built by your mom

and get close in the way
you were scared to with a woman?

Um…

I would say,

yeah, once.

But I… for various reasons,
I can't get into the specifics of it.

[Jonah] Was this a long time ago?
Was this, like, in recent years?

Um…

It's been on and off for years.

[chuckles] As crazy as that might sound.

[Jonah] And what prevents it
from being constant?

I'll just say it in general terms.

She has other family stuff that, uh,

goes… takes her
in completely the opposite direction.

And also my health, you know.

I got the, um…

When I got the Parkinson's,
it had a double effect on me.

It's funny. You know, today I hardly…

Wow, that's really good.

[Jonah] Yeah,
you're not even shaking at all.

Would you be willing to follow me around?
Because you seem to be helping.

[both chuckle]

I'd give you off--
You just have to stay with me every day

till about :, : at night,
then you're free--

[Jonah] Don't go on
a f*cking comedy routine right now.

-Stay on track, bro.
-Thank you.

-[Jonah] I know what you're doing.
-Thank you.

Uh…

[Jonah] So the illness
and her family stuff.

Yeah.

[Jonah] I can't relate
to having Parkinson's,

but do you ever think that can be a crutch

to not just make a decision
that would be scary emotionally?

Uh, yes, %.

I think that crazy part of me--

It takes whatever is happening
and uses it to prove its point.

[Jonah] But that's your Part X
preventing you from making that decision.

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jonah] You know, I think my big fear
with, uh, romantic relationships,

what I'm learning is,
is, like, the only way

for them to succeed
is for you to be completely vulnerable.

Yeah.

[Jonah] And humans are so f*cked-up,

and we just talk ourselves out
of happiness so often

that maybe it's worth trying to push you
to at least think about it.

Well, you've definitely succeeded in that.

I can't tell you,
in the last, let's say, three minutes,

how many jokes I've had to repress.

[Jonah] I get it.

I have the same disease,
which is avoid emotion by making jokes.

Yeah.

[laughs]

[Jonah] Can I ask a random question,
and you can just tell me to f*ck off?

Yeah.

[Jonah] Do you think…

you will call her

or have some sort of new insight
on that relationship?

It… it feels like it, yeah.

Do you mean that,
or are you just placating to me?

Um…

No. I… I mean…

It… it feels like a source of energy

that might help me
make a decision like this.

Um…

[Jonah] Yeah, I mean, I guess
I don't feel anything except love for you.

I just want…

I… I want you to… be happy.

No, I feel it. I feel that.

See, the thing with me
that's not typical is the illness stuff.

So I think, now that I'm talking about it,

I think, unconsciously,

I was linking a woman,
like a relationship, and being cured.

[Jonah] But there's no cure
for Parkinson's.

Yes. That's correct.

But most people aren't sick like that. Um…

And I've been sick for a long, uh, time.

[piano music plays]

I grew up in Manhattan,
so I was used to going out at night.

By the time I was , , we would go out
at least one out of every two nights.

It was Friday. I was supposed to meet
these two women at some bar downtown.

I said, "Great,
I'll be down there in an hour."

And I had been taking a nap.

I went back to sleep. I said, "Let me
just continue this nap for minutes,

then I'll take a cab downtown."

I woke up Monday morning.

And I said, "I am really f*cked.
Something is terribly wrong."

Complete exhaustion.
Like an exhaustion so deep…

Let me put it this way.

If I had to go to the cleaners,
right across the street from my house,

I would have to think,
"Okay, can I do this or not?"

"Do I have the… the strength to do it?"

But this was not me.
I was, like, a very hyperactive person.

So then I went to a neurologist.

In one meeting, he told me,
"Oh, you have cervical stenosis,

you need immediate surgery,
and you have Parkinson's disease."

[Jonah] What did it feel like that day?

Um…

[piano music continues]

See, this is my real Shadow coming out

when you're gonna see
what my handwriting looks like.

[Jonah] Why?

Because it's barely legible.

I don't even like looking at it.

I used to be very good with my hands.

I was very good at basketball,
but anything, I was dexterous.

Now,

well, it speaks for itself. [chuckles]

But what I try to do when I get that fear,

I try to see my Shadow
right at that moment.

"He looks cachectic."
You know what that means?

-Emaciated?
-[Stutz] Yeah, emaciated.

-Yeah.
-[Stutz] That's how my Shadow looks now.

It's like I'll fall apart.

[Jonah] Do you think medical issues
can lead to a lonelier existence?

-Yes. [splutters] Yes.
-[Jonah] Why?

It was, literally, for a while there,
I was afraid to go outside.

[Jonah] Did you ever think
about having kids?

Yeah, all the time,
but now… it's too late now.

I… and I wouldn't want to have a kid now.

[Jonah] Hmm. Why not?

I'm still so weak.

If I have to get out of this chair,
I have to think about it.

There'll be so many moments

where I wasn't actually capable
of being part of the thing.

-[Jonah] Hmm.
-I don't think it'd be a great idea.

[Jonah] That f*cking sucks, man.

[chuckles] Yeah.

Yeah.

[splutters] But if that hadn't happened,

the last bit of information
I've been developing,

I wouldn't have gotten.

It's like every time
I get pushed down and crushed,

I seem to get more information.

[melancholic music plays]

Parkinson's has made me aware of time.
Like, really aware of it.

My sense of mission, my sense
of this is what I'm supposed to do,

that got much stronger in me.

If I don't do that,
I start to think about,

"Oh, sh*t, this happened to me."

"What a drag."
You know, it makes life harder.

Then you go
into this whole pity party thing.

It's a complete waste of time.

[Jonah] Do you ever get in that zone?
The pity party zone?

Yeah, I get in it all the time,

but I'm very fast at getting out of it.

[Jonah] In putting the movie together,

I started using your drawings
to display the tools,

and they are a bit shaky,

and I wanted to know
if it was okay with you if I did that?

Oh, it would be great. Definitely do it.

And if it's shaky, it's even better.

Because the whole premise of this
is we're not gonna win every time,

we certainly can't be perfect,
we can't control it,

but we have
an unstoppable will to go forward.

And this reminds you of it.

Each card has
a little bit of a different approach

to basically the same goal,

which is, "Schmuck, take action,
no matter how frightened you are."

[tense music plays]

[Jonah] That reminds me of
Radical Acceptance, which is a big one

and really helps me work through a lot.

That's right. That's exactly right.

Here's the thing. Every event has
something in it that you can learn from.

When something goes wrong,

anybody can say, "Well, it's not that bad.
I'll recover from it tomorrow."

That's not good enough.

You have to create a reflex
to squeeze the juice out.

Squeezing the juice
means finding something meaningful.

It's trying to find the state
of not getting into a lot of negativity

but actually training yourself to say,
"What am I gonna do about it now?"

I gotta do some push-ups.

Is there anything that's, you know,
strong enough to support my weight?

-[Jonah] You wanna do push-ups?
-Yeah. I'm getting stiff.

You can do it on the dolly
if you want. The push-ups.

[Jonah] Careful, Phil.

I've never done this
in front of this many people.

Even if I do, like, ten of these…
This is good for this.

-Can I take this home?
-[all laugh]

It's the most expensive push-up--

[Stutz] You're not allowed
to make judgements.

You're not allowed
to tell yourself anything negative.

It doesn't mean you're stupid.

It doesn't mean
there isn't something negative there.

You're not allowed to go through that.
It goes against what we're doing.

Number two, obviously, you want to find
something that's positive about it.

Dude, you're crushing it.

Well, when you do of these a day,
you get stronger. [chuckles]

-You do of those a day?
-Probably.

Yeah, because every time I stiffen up,
I can't move like I should.

Yeah, now it's a lot looser,

but, you know, I get like this,
I can't move either of them.

So I discovered this.

Maybe this'll spread the word
if you guys don't cut it out of the film.

So squeezing the juice out of the lemon

means you have
not only the will to do this,

but you have some faith in it.

There's something there that's valuable.

And what happens is

everything starts
to become more meaningful.

You don't get to the world of meaning
through big things.

You get it through small things.

I feel better.

-I feel loose now.
-I do that for my mind.

-Oh.
-Sorry. [chuckles]

[Stutz] You need to look at all events
as having value.

If you can do that, then you're in a zone
of tremendous opportunity.

That's all I have to say on that.

-[Jonah laughs]
-[Stutz chuckles]

[Jonah] You f*cking dropped the mic.
That was amazing.

That's one of the best.
That's a Stutz greatest hit.

-Yeah, it is one of the best.
-[Jonah] I had to use that last night.

Oh yeah? How did it work out?

[Jonah] So I had an anxiety att*ck,
and I couldn't sleep.

And instead of having more anxiety

about how I'm not getting
enough sleep for the next day's work,

I used Radical Acceptance
and was able to actually use that time

to come up with more new ideas
for the sh**t today.

Yeah, well, you did a good job.

Don't f*ck this up now.

[Stutz chuckles]

Did I say anything about Cain and Abel?

Maybe not.

[Jonah] You went to high school with them?

[both laugh]

["Lovesick Blues" by Mason Ramsey plays]

[Stutz] I actually remember…
I think I was nine. It wasn't like today

where you just hop on a plane.
It was a big deal.

And it was-- You couldn't see sh*t.
It was one of those overcast days.

My father was talking to me
about some of this stuff… [chuckles]

…and he said, "Don't worry."

"We'll get above this,
and the sun will be out."

[splutters] I just couldn't believe it.

I thought, "What, are you crazy?"

This-- How could the sun still be up there

when it's so dense,
and I'm seeing all these clouds?

And then, I remember the exact moment

the sun broke through the cloud,
and I was so amazed.

It's like the whole model of the universe
became different because…

The importance of it was

I was no longer judging
the nature of reality

by my experiences
in the last five minutes.

The sun is always up there.

The cloud is always over here,
blocking the sun.

If you can't break through,
you think it's a very bad day.

In fact, you think it's a very bad life.

Every thought you have
is gonna affect your mood.

Every thought you have
is gonna be either positive or negative.

So the Grateful Flow
wants to choose the positives.

[upbeat music plays]

Part X wants you
to have the negative flow,

so it'll create the cloud up there

so you can't see the sun.

You forget
that it's actually sunny up there.

The question becomes,
"How do you penetrate the cloud?"

And the answer is, "With gratefulness."

It gives you the sensation, the feeling,

that there's
always something up there positive

even if you can't see it at all.

But you have to have a mechanism.
That's where the tool comes in.

The Grateful Flow
is not the things you're grateful for.

The Grateful Flow
is the process of creating these things.

So close your eyes.

Now, what you want to do
is you say two or three, at most four,

things you're grateful for.

The smaller the thing, the better,

because it forces you
to concentrate gratefulness.

You wanna do it nice and slow.
You want to feel the gratefulness.

I'm grateful for my nephews.

I'm grateful for surfing.

I'm grateful…

for my dog.

I'm grateful for you.

[Stutz] Okay, now, keep naming things,
but don't say them out loud.

Just keep creating
that stream of gratefulness.

Good.

The next thing you do is you feel

that you're going to create
another grateful thought, but you don't.

You block it. So all you feel is the force
that would create a grateful thought,

and as it gets stronger and stronger,
you feel taken over by it.

[upbeat music continues]

That's the Grateful Flow.
That was excellent. Did you feel anything?

I felt everything kind of just… slow down.

And I felt a warmth.

-[Stutz] Mm-hmm.
-Like in a sense of comfort.

[Stutz] That's pretty good.

The key is not saying the same things
over and over that you're grateful for.

You wanna make it a creative act.

When you have to dig and work on it
to find these things,

that process itself will change your mood.

The classic time to use it
is when your thoughts are out of control.

The worst thing to do is argue with them.

'Cause its effect on you is terrible,
and it does nothing for you.

But gratefulness is not just, "I'm lucky
somebody helped me," or whatever.

Gratefulness is the state
you want to be in

as often as you possibly can be in it,
because it's the state that connects you…

It's the state
that breaks through the cloud.

And once you're up there,
you're in a different world.

What Part X does
is to say you shouldn't be grateful.

It says, "You got screwed."

"You're a victim. You didn't get enough."

"Why should you be grateful
for what you have?"

That's the devil talking.
That's classic Part X.

[upbeat music ends]

I don't talk to you
about your Parkinson's a ton.

And I wonder what part of it is my fear
of just not wanting to acknowledge

my own fears around that stuff.

Yeah. I mean, my advice to you is assume
that you're probably underestimating me,

um, because I continue every day
to make adjustments,

and a lot of them are very helpful.

I don't know. I'm funny, you know?

That's not the kind of thing
that I think about a lot.

I think about the future,

but mostly, my biggest fear
is not getting enough done before I die.

-Hmm.
-'Cause I got so much--

The stuff we talked about here
is maybe, I don't know, % of it.

A sliver, yeah.

Yeah, I think death in itself is a really…

[exhales]
It's a complex subject for everybody.

For me, I am…

very scared to lose you particularly.

Not that that's on my mind all the time,

but, like, you are the person
I go to for life advice

and for a sense of comfort
that there is ways through things.

And at the same time,

you… the only time
I've had massive experience with death,

you were the person
that got me through that as well.

-You're talking about your brother?
-Yeah. Yeah.

And when he passed away unexpectedly

a few years ago,

and before I made this movie,
I didn't know

that you had lost your brother.

You told a story
about where you were that day.

-Oh yeah.
-You knew the spot where you were.

You went to school that day
and all those things and…

I spend a lot of my life
avoiding thinking about that day,

and I went to your office that morning.

It was definitely
the most intense day in my life.

It's definitely, like,
the most shook-up I've ever been.

One of the things I remember was,
that day, you said, "Give me your phone,"

and you took a picture of me.

And I, like, wondered why you did that?

It is very rare in life
that you get a chance to record something

at the climactic,
you know, most important moment.

And then you come back to it.

Whether it's in a week or a year,
it doesn't matter.

You… you have, um, a… There's a time gap.

And in that time gap,

you actually experience
the forces of healing, of recovery.

Yeah, I… I haven't looked at this picture

in four years.

Mm-hmm.

But I, like, printed it out,

because I wanted
to show you and look at it.

[Stutz inhales]

You haven't looked at it for four years?

[Jonah] No.

In a good way…

it's like it's… I look
stripped of everything fake.

[Stutz] Mm-hmm.

And there is
an oddly serene look on my face.

-[Stutz] There is.
-Which is, like, so bizarre.

But maybe because it, like, demolished…

everything that didn't matter.

[Stutz] It demolished everything
you thought you needed but you don't need.

That's the picture of somebody
who's gone through hell

and came out the other side

and is really okay,

in a very nondramatic way, which I like.

That's a picture of victory,
even though it might not look like it.

[piano music plays]

Loss Processing is a tool
that allows you to process loss, right?

And most people are very bad at it.

Not only are they bad when there's a loss
and they get depressed or bereft,

but before there's a loss,
they're just worrying about a loss.

The goal of this is to get what's called
the potency of nonattachment.

That means I can pursue something,
but I'm willing not to have it.

I still wanna pursue it.
I want to pursue it really hard.

But I'm also willing to lose.

The first thing I want you to do
is pick out something

that you feel
you've become too attached to.

It could be a person, a job,
something small. It doesn't matter.

But something where you're loath
to let go of it.

You're afraid, if you let go of it,
something terrible's gonna happen.

-You have it?
-Mm-hmm.

[Stutz] Okay.

Now imagine you're grasping this thing.

And if it's not a material thing,
it doesn't matter.

Just imagine you're grasping it,

like you're grasping
onto a branch on a tree.

It's scary. You're afraid to let go.

But you let go anyway.

And when you let go, you start to fall.

It's not a bad sensation though.

The falling is actually kind of slow
and gentle, to your surprise,

but you're dropping down.

And you say,
"I'm willing to lose everything."

And you have to say it silently,

but you want to really feel
the, uh, intent behind that.

And the moment you say that,

you hit the surface of a sun
that was down there below you,

and your body burns up.

Now, at that point,
you have lost everything,

because the instrument of possession
is your physical body.

So if your physical body's burnt up,
you're just one sunbeam

amongst all these other sunbeams.

You're radiating outward
in all directions,

and what you're radiating
is a very loving,

giving, outflowing sensation.

And then you look around,

and you see, all around you,
an infinite number of other suns,

just like the one you're inside of,
all of which are radiating outwards.

And then you hear the suns,
all of them, saying in unison,

"We are everywhere."

This world is called a sun world.

All you can do is give. You can't take.

You can't grasp.
You can't hold on to anything.

It's just impossible.

Now you can open your eyes.

How'd it feel?

[Jonah] Great.

-You don't wanna say anything else?
-Yeah, I do.

Which is, I'm very good at nonattachment

to, like, a job or an identity
or a beef with someone.

I can get there
and use the tools to get there.

When it comes to things
like a romantic relationship

or a family member that I love,

the idea of losing those things,

I struggle with that concept.

Think about it like this.
You're not trying to become nonattached.

You're trying to move
towards nonattachment

every time you get scared of a loss.

For most people,

they've never been nonattached
for one second in their whole life.

So even the fact
that they can move towards that

is… is helpful for them.

If you're human, it's not possible.

It wouldn't even be good
if you were totally nonattached.

That makes a lot of sense.

So the goal
is not to become completely nonattached.

No.

It's work towards
no one person, place, or thing leaving you

can completely take away
your whole existence

and your sense of wholeness.

That's correct.

I don't wanna leave anything
in the shadows,

because I don't want it to become
this, like, thing that eats at me.

And even your fears, I think,
when you say them,

or your pain, when you say it,
does set you free in a lot of ways.

[Stutz] Yeah, it does.

[Jonah] And I use Loss Processing,
and it really helps.

I wanna be like a monk and be like,
"These tools just help it all dissolve,"

but I still feel that pain every day.

-You know?
-Yeah.

[Jonah] I still miss my brother.

[Stutz] Yeah,
you will for a very long time.

But let me put it this way.

Death is not a permanent condition.

You can… you can be
afraid of death, that's fine,

as long as you feel something after death.

And that's rebirth.

The idea that rebirth is possible
from the very worst,

the dregs of the world,
dregs of experience,

and you can make something
cyclically come alive again.

That's the closest
a human being can get to God.

[Jonah] Hmm.

Yeah, I understand it's just a reality
and that life just does go on.

But there's very few people on that list
that I just don't want to f*cking lose so…

I don't want to lose you either.

What do I do? [chuckles]

I think we should get married.

-I want a prenup.
-[Jonah laughs]

[melancholic music plays]

[paper swishing]

Oh, yeah, here we go,
some of the good ones.

These are so sick.

[Stutz] Yeah, this…

[Jonah] One of the things
that this movie is accomplishing for me

while I'm making it

is that I used to think
that the people I look up to

are absolved of the problems that I have.

[laughs] I'm sorry.

I understand. I under--

[Jonah] It's absurd. I know.
It really is absurd. It's not…

[splutters]

-You're laughing 'cause it's absurd.
-Yeah.

Right. And I think
it's good for people to see

that you, for me,
are someone who's created these things,

and I think it's important
that people who we look up to

aren't exempt from all the problems
that we ourselves have.

You are still in the struggle
and in the fight of being a human

just like everybody else is.

Your whole thing is
that you're never exempt from the pain

or the uncertainty or the constant work.

And I think there's something beautiful
about seeing your vulnerability,

for me, that dissects

that there will never be anyone
that has it all figured out.

Yeah.

That's the secret of life.

-As far as I'm concerned.
-Is what?

[Stutz] Accepting that
you won't figure it out ever.

Nobody else will figure it out.

Happiness depends on how you accept that

and what you do about it.

But first is accept it,
because if you don't accept it,

you have this thing in your mind
that I can get over it

or under it and eliminate it,
and you can't.

Hmm.

This is such a great moment right now.

Could you guys stay just like this,
and I'm gonna go home and go to sleep?

When I get back here in the morning,
I want to find you just…

-Would that be reasonable?
-[Jonah] Yeah.

Are you tired?

-Yeah, I'm kind of tired.
-[Jonah] All right, go lay down.

[loud thud]

What do you see when you close your eyes?

I see an ocean.

And it's a beautiful beach,
and the waves are--

They're not huge waves.
They're just perfectly formed waves.

And they're running
up and down my body now.

[Jonah] Is the water warm or cold?

Warm.

[waves lapping]

You know what my mother said when
my brother, um, went into the hospital?

She said, "He went… he…
he entered it as an infant,"

or, you know, he was three,

"but three months later," I think
it was three months later when he d*ed,

"he was a grown man."

Um…

So something… He was transformed.

It made me feel so, um, sad, but also,

uh…

Also in awe, I guess.

-[Jonah] Can you see him now?
-[exhales] What?

[Jonah] You see him now?

Yeah, I mean, it's…
He… he's not particularly--

I feel that that is my brother,
but, you know, he feels like…

He feels like he's your age, actually.

He says… [inhales]

…he didn't give me
enough advance warning about his death.

He's saying…

He's saying it didn't bother him
that much. He… he knew about it.

I don't see how he could have… told me.

Maybe. I don't know.

I swear, I know this is impossible,
but I'm having this feeling

as if I'm flying.

[wind blowing]

[Jonah] How does it feel?

Great.

[melancholic music plays]

Can I, uh, sit up?

[Jonah] You're flying through the air?

Well, I'm… I'm hoping
that'll stop when my feet…

[both laugh]

[splutters] Are you insured for that?

-[Jonah laughs] Yeah, you wanna sit up?
-Yeah.

[Jonah] Yeah, sit up. Of course.

-This is a nice room.
-[Jonah laughs]

Wow.

This is the real challenge for me
every day, is to get out of bed.

Maybe it's just an attempt
to gain control over me or…

I'm not sure. Why did you?

[Jonah] All those reasons.

-Should somebody grab your medicine?
-Yeah.

I like the background the way it is,

because a lot of people have dreams

where they… they have… they discover
another bedroom in their house,

or sometimes they'll discover,
like, a whole huge thing.

What it really means in the dream world
is you're becoming more conscious.

Your view of the universe is expanding.

So people have dreams that there's a room
in their house that's not there,

and it means their mind is expanding
or they're growing?

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

That's crazy.

…won't recover.
I say, "Do what the f*ck I tell you."

"Do exactly what I tell you.
I guarantee you'll feel better."

[Jonah] Wait, I have an idea.

Yeah, go ahead.

[Jonah] Since we already sh*t
the opening of the movie,

this might be for the end of the movie,

if we're saying why I made this movie now,
after all we've been through.

Oh.

That's good.

See if you can… just really fast,

see if you can say the beginning,
and then, right after that, say the end.

Hmm.

I'm making this movie

because I want to give therapy
and the tools I've learned in therapy

to as many people as possible

through a film.

I made this movie

because I love Phil…

because I love the life
these tools allowed for me to have.

[Stutz] Hmm.

And it doesn't matter
what people think about the movie.

It just matters that we finished it.

Together.

Yeah, I feel closer to you now
than when we started,

which I think is a great sign.

It's also great luck for me,
you know, at age .

I love you.

I love you.

I still wish you would stop
dumping so much sh*t on me.

[Jonah laughs]

["Lovesick Blues" by Mason Ramsey plays]

♪ The last long day she said goodbye ♪

♪ Well, Lord, I thought I would cry ♪

♪ She'll do me, she'll do you
She's got that kind of loving ♪

♪ Lord, I love to hear her
When she calls me sweet daddy ♪

♪ Such a beautiful dream… ♪

[Jonah] When we sh*t, like, months ago,

you had mentioned a relationship that was
kind of on and off for a long time,

and then you mentioned to me
briefly in a phone call

how you had reached out to that person,

and I wanna ask you about it
but only if you wanna talk about it.

[laughs]

It's so amazing.

This is-- She's the closest person
in the world to me.

Mostly, when we were younger,
not wanting to be in a relationship,

mostly it was me.

I didn't have the will to make it work.

Now I do.

-Did you reach out after our conversation?
-Yeah, it actually… it helped me. Yeah.

-Our conversation made me a bit ashamed.
-[Jonah] In what way?

That I was doing something,
like, without full commitment,

like in a half-assed way.

So that was very helpful.

Who do you think's more scared
of trying it out for real between you two?

You or her?

Oh, me, %.

You think you'll be able
to let down some walls

and put some fears aside to try,
or you want to?

[splutters] Yeah, I'm going to. Yeah.

What would be the hopeful outcome?

The hopeful outcome is it works out.

That would be the hopeful outcome.

["Lovesick Blues"
by Mason Ramsey continues]

♪ I've grown so used to you somehow ♪

♪ Well, Lord, I thought I would cry ♪

♪ Such a beautiful dream ♪

♪ Such a beautiful dream ♪

♪ I've grown so used to you somehow ♪

♪ Daddy, such a beautiful dream ♪

♪ I hate to think it's all over ♪

♪ I've lost my heart it seems ♪

♪ I've lost my heart it seems ♪

♪ I've lost my heart it seems ♪

♪ Such a beautiful dream ♪

♪ Such a beautiful dream ♪

♪ Such a beautiful dream ♪

["Lovesick Blues" by Mason Ramsey ends]