The investigators are now filing
in and the reporters are getting ready
to cover this news conference.
Many parents in the community
will be breathing a sigh of relief
if this indeed is the break
that police have been waiting for.
Chief Inspector Gary Gitchell
is about to begin,
and he's also bringing in
some photographs.
Obviously these will probably be
photographs of the suspects.
Of course, suspects unofficially
at this point, although many believe
in this triple m*rder
of the three 8-year-old boys.
Arrested at 2:44 p.m., Thursday,
June the 3rd, 1993.
Jessie Lloyd Misskelley.
Jessie Misskelley is 17 years of age.
Charles Jason Baldwin.
He is 16 years of age.
Michael Wayne Echols.
Mr. Echols is 18 years of age.
He is charged with three counts
of capital m*rder.
Were you surprised
when these guys were arrested?
I was surprised about Jason
because he's, like, the quiet one
of them all.
But I wasn't surprised about
Jessie Misskelley and Damien Echols,
because I just expected it out of them
sooner or later.
k*ller!
When the police
were asking for clothing
so they could give it to the dogs
to pick up scent,
the bandana here was the only thing
that I had in my household
that had Stevie's scent on it.
I've never washed it.
When I get the need to just want
to feel him again, um,
I'll grab it and I'll hug it,
and I'm so thankful
I feel an embrace back.
I was walking the route
to take Stevie to school,
and I checked him out,
I believe, at 2:30.
Stevie told me a hundred times,
probably a thousand, on the way home:
"I love you, mama." "I love you too, son."
And it was just constant.
We got home, first thing I asked him,
"Do you have any homework?"
He said, "I did, but I did it in school."
And he hung his homework
on the refrigerator.
And Michael Moore came up,
and they started asking,
could Stevie go to Michael's house?
And I said, "No, I'm getting ready
for work, I'm cooking supper."
Both of them,
you know, begging:
"Please, please, please,
we'll be back," and all that.
I gave in and I said, "Okay." I said,
"But, boy, you better be home by 4:30.
If you're not, I'm gonna ground you
for two weeks from that bike."
I'm gonna say Christopher
probably arrived at the house
around 3:35 maybe,
and he asked me if Stevie was there.
I told him, I said, "I'm surprised you didn't run
into him because him and Michael just left."
He left and he was gonna go
searching for Stevie and Michael.
Uh, well, around 4:45, Stevie had...
Still hadn't arrived.
Terry came in. I told Terry,
"Well, let's go ahead and leave."
We went ahead,
and he took me to work.
My night at work was a normal night.
Terry walked in, to the phone,
didn't say hi, bye, nothing.
He just walked to the phone,
and I took two pieces of candy
to the car and Amanda was there,
and I asked her, "Where's Bubba?"
And she said, "Mama, we can't find him."
And I thought the worst,
that he was dead.
I got out of the car, went through
this door, got out of my uniform,
put sweats on and put a T-shirt on.
Because all I was trying to focus on
is where's Stevie, where's he at,
and I gotta get out there,
and I gotta start searching.
Last time we saw him
was about 6:30 yesterday evening.
What's...? Give me your name.
My name is Mark Byers.
Okay. Has your son...?
Has this ever happened before?
None of the boys have ever
gone off anywhere.
None of the three have ever been
missing or taken off ever before.
What's going through your mind
as a parent?
I'm scared to death.
That's, you know, plain and simple.
I'm scared for the safety
and welfare of all three boys.
That particular day, I'd
called the West Memphis P.D.
The dispatcher Lucy
answered the phone.
She said, "We've had three children
missing since last night."
I said, "Well, you know,
I'm gonna go help too."
I'm not seeing anything.
Not seeing no kids running around
on bicycles or nothing.
And then I thought
about Robin Hood Trails
as I was driving down Goodwyn,
and I said:
"Well I'll... I'm gonna go over there,
just get out and walk around."
I was looking around, you know,
just physically looking out and about.
And then I looked
into the small ditch.
That's where I saw the tennis shoe at.
I called
West Memphis Police Department
to have Mike Allen
meet me out here.
And so I showed him the area
of the tennis shoe.
And Mike had said
he was going to take it out.
Mike fell into the water.
I was looking down on him like this.
He looked up and I said, "What?"
And he said, "it feels like my leg
is caught on something."
Like a log or something."
And Mike fell backwards,
and when he fell backwards,
his leg came up...
and one of the little bodies
was on his leg.
From the moment they
told me Stevie was dead,
I really lost it,
lost all touch with reality.
Pam Hobbs' son,
Steve, and two of his friends
were found m*rder*d
Thursday before last.
It's more a part of my
life than I would like it to be.
Because frankly I'd like to be able
to not have those three 8-year-old boys'
pictures in my mind.
What you found, you found three boys
that had been hog-tied
and thrown in the water.
It appeared
that they had been sexually mutilated.
That appears to be cult-related.
The West Memphis Police Department
a lot of times would ask me about
occult things as though I were the guru.
I probably was because there wasn't
anybody else that was doing it.
This program is designed to help
law enforcement officers
better understand Satanic cults.
I got some books and I spoke to police
organizations around the country
that had some experience with it.
Okay, we have a rope here.
If you look at it closely...
I don't know
if the camera can pick this up.
But there's blood on this noose.
The police department asked me
to put together a list of people
that we had on probation that might
be involved in that type of activity.
Well, the guy that I knew
that was involved the most in it
was Damien Echols.
The two guys he ran with,
Jessie and Jason...
Jessie would fight.
Jason was not very aggressive,
in that respect,
but I believe he would do anything
that Damien asked him to do.
Eight months have passed
since the three boys were k*lled.
Cameras are in place
and miles of cable laid
in preparation for this
highly publicized m*rder trial.
I guess they found that those three
were the most likely to have done it.
Move back.
And then, of course, they
had the confession from Jessie.
The most compelling evidence
yet was introduced in open court.
Misskelley's taped confession
made to police.
I saw Damien hit
this one... Hit this one boy real bad.
Then he start screwing him and stuff.
Jason turned around
and hit Steve Branch
and started doing the same thing.
Michael Moore took off running,
so I chased him
and grabbed him and held him
until they got there, and then I left.
If he does not run
through the woods
and chase him down and bring
him back, Michael Moore lives.
Did Damien invite
you to some meeting?
He did. A cult, Satanic meeting.
Okay.
Tell me some of
the things y'all do, being in this cult.
We go out, k*ll dogs and stuff.
Some of my friends had said
they saw a hog's head out here,
and they saw the body
in a plastic bag.
The State is now trying
to prove motive in this case,
calling this a cult-related k*lling.
Whether that will be enough
to sway the women and men sitting
on this jury remains to be seen.
Damien, any
comment about the charges?
Did you do it?
I got a letter in the mail telling
me that I had summons to be on the jury.
And I didn't want to be on there
in the beginning.
But I didn't know how to get out of it.
Is it your opinion
and do you want to tell this jury
that these crimes were motivated
by occult beliefs?
Yes.
Blood is the life force.
They prefer to have a child
that is young.
There's evidence of genital mutilation,
and the red is the shaft of the penis.
Jason told me how
he dismembered the kid.
He sucked the blood from the penis
and the scrotum
and put the balls in his mouth.
You take this Kn*fe and drag it,
and it rips and tears.
The Kn*fe is being twisted
and the victim is moving.
Just like in the picture.
Damien, he had a book that he wrote in.
It was pretty dark.
A lot of death, a lot of...
He talked about dead children.
"Thirsty for blood
and the terror of mortal men."
Look favorably on my sacrifice."
I think they went out in the woods.
They may not have been meaning
to k*ll them.
And then it just got out of control.
And Damien,
I think he was the mastermind
over Jason and Misskelley.
I do believe that. I do.
You begin to see inside
Damien Echols.
And you look inside there
and there's not a soul in there.
I know he's guilty, you know.
I can't imagine the fear going
through them boys
watching one another get k*lled.
Knowing they was next.
I can't believe the heinous crime.
"We, the jury, find Damien Echols guilty
of capital m*rder"
in the death of Stevie Branch.
Guilty of capital m*rder
in the death of Chris Byers.
"Guilty of capital m*rder
in the death of Michael Moore."
A message has to be sent.
You can't be involved in m*rder
and expect to get away with it.
Misskelley was sentenced to life
in prison for the m*rder of Michael Moore.
And 40 years for the murders
of Steven Branch and Christopher Byers.
"We have determined that
Jason Baldwin shall be sentenced
to life imprisonment without parole."
If I'd been on the jury,
I sure would have found them guilty.
If there is ever an appropriate case
for the death penalty in Arkansas,
you've got it in your hands now.
That they burn in hell.
They wanna worship the devil,
let them meet him. I hope they do soon.
"We the jury have
determined that Damien Echols"
shall be sentenced to death
by lethal injection."
I was kind of, I guess, happy,
if I could...
Might say that word, that everybody else
was as angry at them as I was.
Now my boy can play
and go on about his life in heaven
the way it is,
and I'll go on with mine
the best I can.
And I'm glad it's over.
It's like the community felt
like they were relieved
that somebody was behind bars
and that they didn't have to be quite
as scared as they were. They were guilty.
This call originates
from an Arkansas correctional facility.
I have a prepaid call from:
Damien.
An inmate at Varner Unit.
If you wish to accept... Thank you.
Damien and I
probably have 5000 letters
that we've written to each other
over the past 15... Fourteen, 15 years.
You know, it's the way
we got to know each other.
I saw the film Paradise Lost,
which is a documentary
that was made about the original trial.
I was living in New York City
at the time
and I saw it at probably
the second time it was screened.
We were just watching TV
the night we were arrested.
We were in the bedroom,
turned the light off.
To hear Damien talk in that
film, he reminds me so much of myself.
Did she tell you whenever
she awarded herself the first-place prize
and rode in a parade?
She had this sign on the side
of a car that's saying "first place"
and it's got a blue ribbon on it.
And it was not even a contest!
She just gave herself "first place."
After a series of letters,
writing, corresponding with him,
and then I cared deeply about him.
And the next thing I know,
I'm in Arkansas.
When I was a real little kid, I had,
uhh, a pet turtle for a while. A box turtle.
Did you do any painting on its shell?
I most certainly did not.
We did.
Seeing the film, you realize
something has gone wrong.
You don't get the full picture
because there's so much to the story,
as we've learned,
as it's unfolded over the years.
I was struck by the fact that these people
didn't commit these crimes.
They don't have the right people
in prison.
Questions about
whether justice was served
have loomed in this case
since the verdicts.
The HBO documentary Paradise Lost
gave the case worldwide attention.
I am so glad to see so many people here,
people who are interested in this case.
When I started to write Devil's Knot,
my friends said, "Mara, they did it."
And I said, "Well, that may be,
and if that's true I'm gonna find out."
This was probably the first
crowd-sourced criminal investigation
in history,
is about the only way to describe it.
The case was supposedly solved.
If it was an open case,
the West Memphis Police wouldn't be
required to make available documents.
The West Memphis Police put together
an incredibly large investigation.
Even if a lot of it was nonsense
and rumors.
So we could take on the case,
we could begin to ask the questions.
We can look at Jessie's confession
and we could say:
"Wait a second,
what did he really say
compared to what he was claimed
to have said?"
Right from the start, after Jessie
Misskelley made his Statement to police,
it was recorded, transcribed.
And then it was immediately leaked
to The Commercial Appeal.
I read the confession on the front
page of the Memphis Commercial Appeal
just like everybody else did.
And it seemed like it happened.
When we were appointed
by the court in 1993,
we thought it wasn't gonna be
a jury trial.
We thought it was gonna be a plea.
As I got deeper into the case
and looked at things,
they just didn't start making sense.
Misskelley's versions
of what happened changed wildly,
and he couldn't get the story right
every time or any time.
Everybody round here
knew that Jessie didn't do it.
He didn't like Damien,
he was scared of him.
He, uh, stayed away from him
as much as possible.
Well, he wasn't too good in school.
Had to take him out of school
and I got him started
doing mechanic work.
He caught on pretty good.
When I was growing up, my dad always
taught me, you know... Tell the truth.
Tell the police the truth. I thought
the police was there to help you.
That's when they, uhh,
started questioning me.
Gary Gitchell and Bryn Ridge was,
you know, asking me some questions.
You know, about the kids.
And I tell them,
"I didn't know nothing about it."
The only thing I knew was what, you know...
What I was told from another guy.
I kept telling them the whole time,
"I wanna go home. I wanna go home."
Certainly one of the reasons
behind why he confessed is
that he's borderline
mentally Ret*rded.
He was trying to compose a story
as though he was there.
He just didn't have the details.
Right after,
uh, they b*at up all three of them.
b*at them up real bad? And
then they took their clothes off?
Mm..hmm. And then they...
Then they tied them?
Then they tied them up.
Tied their hands up.
And about what time was it
that all this was taking place?
I was there about 12.
About noon?
"Okay. Was it after school had let out?
I didn't go to school.
It couldn't have happened at noon.
It couldn't have happened
before the kids were out of school.
So they kept leading him down the path
from noon to 4:30, 5:30, 6:30.
Was it getting dark?
Your time period might not be
exactly right, what you're saying.
Police officers don't
like the word "interrogation."
They like the word "interview."
So Mr. Misskelley wasn't interviewed,
he was interrogated.
And he was interrogated from 9:00
in the morning until after dark.
This is an entire day
that he was being interrogated,
yet we only had a few minutes
of the audio tape.
Jessie, about what time was it
when the boys
came up to the woods?
I'd say it was about...
It was about 5 or so. Five or 6.
Ummmm.
All right, you told me earlier it was
around 7 or 8 or... Which time is it?
It's 7 or 8.
Okay.
I remember it was starting to get dark.
Okay, well, that clears it up.
We all have our breaking points. I
think it's important that people realize
that this is not just about a person
with disabilities
falsely confessing to a crime.
This is about police misconduct.
That's what this is about.
Once police convince
the person to make a Statement
against their interest, how does
that person know what to say?
Did anyone use a
stick, and hit the boys with?
Damien had a kind of a big old
stick when he hit that first one.
It's because of this phenomenon
known as contamination,
the police will suggest facts
about how the crime happened.
What was to keep these
little boys from running off?
Were their hands tied in a fashion to where
they couldn't have run? You tell me.
They're sitting there
listening to the police.
Listening to their interrogators
ask those leading questions.
"Weren't these boys sexually assaulted?"
Then they know what story to tell back.
Another boy was cut, I understand.
Where was he cut at?
" . At the bottom?
On his bottom?
Do you mean right here?
In his groin area?
Do you know what his penis is?
Yeah, that's where he was cut at.
Did it ever occur to you
that what he was telling you was false?
His entire story was false?
Jessie simply got confused. That's all.
I mean, Jessie was not convicted
on the basis of his confession.
And neither was Damien and Jason.
They were convicted on the basis
of Gary Gitchell's confession.
That was his story.
All they had to do
was get Jessie to agree to it.
It's not particularly difficult
to get a confession from someone
who's mentally handicapped.
It's like interviewing a 3- or 4-,
5-year-old child.
People don't tend to confess
to crimes that they didn't commit.
You know, I'm sure
there may be circumstances
where a person might
have a low mentality.
He's slow-minded, is what it is,
you know what I mean?
It took a while for him to, you know,
get things straight in his mind.
Kind of slow-minded, you know.
Well, hell, everybody's a little bit
slow-minded anyway.
I just have better faith
in our law enforcement
than to force somebody
to make a Statement that's untrue.
I think that it was essentially
poisoned from the very beginning.
The most basic things
about the investigations,
talking to the family members.
Getting Statements from police
that evening.
You know, whether they had these alibis
or not, but it wasn't done.
And it's why the case went bad.
Y'all need to be
investigating some of these people
who've been arrested
for child molestation.
Well, it's like this.
We've got a story
that is very, very believable.
It is so close to perfect
that we have to believe it.
I don't see how anyone could believe it.
Jessie Misskelley said it happened
that morning and everything.
Jason was in school.
And then Jason mowed
his uncle's yard.
He got some money,
went to play video games.
I called Jason's house,
and Jason and Damien
and Jason's brother
were playing video games.
They weren't talking much.
I got a little irritated at them.
Damien asked me to call him
later that night.
There was never a night
that we never spoke.
I remember that we had talked
that night.
When I spoke to police and they came
one afternoon and they spoke to me,
and I talked to them once
and that was it.
"On 9-10-1993, I met Jennifer Bearden
at her residence in Bartlett, Tennessee."
The interview was a result
of having obtained information
that she'd been on the phone
with Damien on the day of the homicide.
She informed me of several times when she'd been
on the phone with Damien and Jason after school.
"And until about 9:30 p.m.
on the evening of 5-5-93."
I was never given a chance
to at least give them, you know,
an alibi to the jury, I mean.
And honestly, I don't think
it would have changed their minds.
I think they were pretty dead-set
on what they were gonna decide.
The evidence will show
that not only was Mr. Misskelley
not in Robin Hood Hills
at the time of these homicides, he was in
a different county almost 40 miles away
the time these crimes occurred.
There were a lot of alibi witnesses.
When was the first time
you remember seeing Jessie?
At, uh, 2:00.
Jessie came to the house. I asked if he could
watch the kids while I went to a conference.
She got back about 4:00
and we went walking.
I seen him walking down the street.
I met him on the corner.
Talking about him fixing to leave
to go to wrestling.
A lot of these folks, when
we went back and visited with them,
they came to the conclusion,
"Oh, yeah, that's the night
that we went wrestling with Jessie."
Do you remember if you went wrestling?
Yes, sir, I did.
Okay, do you remember who went?
Jessie, Freddy.
Me and Jessie and Freddy
and James was at wrestling
that night, you know.
And that's the night that he got hurt.
And that's the night
that so-and-so only went with us.
Once. One time.
That was the same night that we signed
this register at the wrestling hall.
Do you remember seeing Misskelley?
Yes, sir.
Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
You remember Jessie Misskelley?
Yes, sir.
Are you positive about that?
Yes, sir.
Looking through the juror's notes,
they hardly seemed to pay attention
during the alibi portion of it.
You could say I sort of, like, d*ed
myself because I shut out humanity,
and I didn't like people,
I was a hateful person,
and before this happened
I wasn't that type of person.
Words can't explain what the grief,
and what you go through...
We have found this to be
a world of its own.
We had quite a few arguments and
stuff because I couldn't let go.
He told me I had to let it go,
I had to keep living,
and I told him I was still in that ditch
just as much as my son was,
and I was clawing my way out of it
the best way that I knew how.
I left Terry in 2002
and we were divorced in 2004.
I do think that you can meet someone
and know that there's something there.
That there's some journey there
for you.
But I think it takes a long,
it does take a long time,
and I think it's a painful process,
actually.
I was talking about it and how really
and truly stressed out you were that day.
It was the first time you'd been touched
by anybody, like, in seven years.
And I'll never forget you were, like,
so completely pale.
And you were shaking,
and I kind of thought
you were gonna pass out
at one point.
It was a Buddhist ceremony,
and we kind of wrote it ourselves and...
They had a little... We had a little
temple set up or a little altar set up,
We did. Incense burning on it.
You know, they had two guards
up there watching the whole thing.
And you could tell they had no idea,
you know, what the hell was going on.
So they just pretty much stayed
out of the way.
We'd intersperse lots of, you know,
bowing, then kissing and hugging.
I think you're supposed to only kiss
once or something in the ceremony.
We just... We made it seem like
it was a part of the ceremony.
So that was nice,
that was really nice.
But, you know, back then
it was nothing like it is now, you know,
with the people who knew
about the case.
So it was kind of nice
because it was real low-key.
I had talked to Lorri. She
had come out to talk about the case.
My attitude at the time was,
you know, we cannot do this.
They were adamant that this should be
and was a case about innocence.
"We don't want you to focus on death
versus life without parole.
This is a case about innocence."
My reaction was,
if it is a case about innocence,
what they said is that
there's all of this investigation
that has to be done on the ground
in Arkansas.
And we're, you know, a two-lawyer
partnership in San Francisco.
How are we possibly gonna get
the resources to get on the ground
and really investigate
a case in Arkansas?
Lorri Davis said,
"I'll find a way to do it."
I've quit my job, my other job,
so I that can work full-time on the case.
Attorneys for Damien Echols are
appealing their client's conviction
on Arkansas Rule 37,
ineffective counsel.
Prosecutors disagree.
It was effective, it was thorough.
It was a 17-day trial.
Outside the court, supporters
unveiled a banner of more than 2500 postcards,
each pleading to free
the West Memphis Three.
It was always about
free the West Memphis Three.
We were raising funds and it wasn't
even to raise money for their defense.
It was to raise money
so they had money when they got out.
Because the day was coming soon.
I decided it
should be Black Flag songs.
I called Iggy Pop, he said sure.
I called Lemmy, he said, "I'm in."
Called Chuck D from Public Enemy,
he said, "You got it."
All to help these three guys
who I'd never met.
I went to your benefit show in '03
for the West Memphis Three.
It was like the best concert
I've ever been to.
See? I can't believe that
this is still going on.
Yeah, well. I saw a little bit of myself.
Damien liked to hang out alone
and wrote in his journals
that he was depressed. Hello.
He liked to listen to weird music.
Check.
He was a wise-ass
in the face of law enforcement.
I mean, are you kidding?
It could have been me.
Could have been me.
Not everyone agreed
with Rollins' message.
The parents of the m*rder*d children
showed displeasure with picket signs.
My baby was m*rder*d
and butchered like an animal
and his two friends were too.
Whatever punishment they get,
they deserve.
Michael's mother, Diana Moore, agrees,
telling us, "Make no mistake about it."
These three you see convicted
and sentenced did it."
I started getting very
passionate, very sincere hate mail.
Because if you are seen to be
sticking up for someone
who someone else truly believes
has m*rder*d a child,
there's no way you can reason
with that person.
I remember thinking
that if we could get involved,
we'd probably get them out
in maybe one or two years.
That's how naive I was.
It's usually on average
of like 15 to 20 years.
If you would have told us that
three or four years in,
I think it would have been
quite daunting.
This is the first e-mail that I received
from Fran and Peter, and it's 7-25-05.
"What a horror story, unbelievable."
Something positive
has to come from this.
What can we do down here
in New Zealand?
Our names are Peter Jackson
and Fran Walsh.
We would like to offer financial
assistance to help facilitate, hopefully,
"a positive outcome in Damien's appeal
to the federal court."
When Fran and I first got involved,
it felt like the case
was in a holding pattern.
But it wasn't a holding pattern
for Damien's chances of staying alive.
That doesn't go into a holding pattern.
"Dear Fran and Peter,
your e-mail was a welcome sight"
on a very hot Monday morning
here in Arkansas.
My name is Lorri Davis
and I have been involved
in working on the case for nine years.
There are many twists
and turns to the story.
It's still incredibly frustrating.
"Appeal's taking forever
and funds always needed."
I have a pathological hatred
of bullying and people in power
crapping on people who have
no ability to defend themselves.
I believe in justice. I think there are
good people and bad people.
People do horrible things
and should be punished.
Justice should be fair,
it should be honorable,
it should be decent, it should speak
to our values as human beings
that right must prevail.
And all that I could see in the case
of the West Memphis Three is
wrong was prevailing and that wrong
was being perpetrated by people
who, I believe,
knew they were doing wrong.
Most people think that this
case is something extraordinary.
It's spectacular in some sort of way,
and it's not. Burnett and Fogleman
thought they could make a name
for themselves off of this case.
Because, really,
you're dealing with three kids
who were bottom of the barrel,
poor white trash
that nobody's ever gonna
ask another question about.
He thought they would say, "Guilty."
This whole thing would be swept
under the rug.
The State would k*ll me.
Jason and Jessie would spend
their lives in prison.
He'd move up the political ladder.
That's all he cared about.
This case is nothing out of the ordinary.
This happens all the time.
How did I decide
which trial would go first?
And the reason I'm hesitating,
I'm trying to think if that's a question
that I should be answering.
In general, a case with a confession,
uh, would be your easier case
as opposed to one
without direct evidence.
Ten feet, ma'am. Back up.
Okay.
Are you gonna testify
against your co-defendants?
Jessie, were you
forced to talk about this?
The prosecutors had a problem.
They could not play the tape
of Misskelley's Statement
at the second trial.
They needed Mr. Misskelley to testify.
They thought they were gonna lose
the other two.
Are you worried about his testimony?
Judge Burnett appointed Phillip
Wells to interview Mr. Misskelley
to make sure he didn't really,
really, really want to testify
against Baldwin and Echols.
Here's a young 18-year-old,
under a lot of stress,
facing life plus 40 years in penitentiary.
He has to make sure whatever options
and offers are available to him
are looked into or communicated.
Promises of lesser sentences,
you know, a much easier life in prison.
Many defendants would have
jumped on that deal. Jessie said no.
They can't come
up with physical evidence.
They've got to turn to witnesses
who they can convince
to give Statements in court. That's
the only evidence they come up with.
Just when it seemed attorneys for
the State had their back against a wall,
Craighead County Courthouse
came to an eerie silence
as 16-year-old Michael Carson,
a former juvenile inmate,
who spent time with Baldwin,
took the stand.
I was doing serious adult dr*gs
and, I mean, I was doing a lot of them.
I got out there.
I thought birds had cameras on them.
Michael Carson, he was fixing
to go to the penitentiary
for several counts
of residential burglary,
and that is when the prosecutor
got a hold of him.
Were you offered anything
as far as a reward
or anything of that nature?
No, sir, and if I was,
I would deny it.
Jason was not very outspoken. He wasn't,
you know, jumping around and stuff.
He's a very quiet,
to-himself type of person.
What did he tell you?
He told me
how he dismembered the kid,
he sucked the blood
from the penis and scrotum
and put the balls in his mouth.
I remember not knowing
why I was doing what I was doing.
I remember it actually going
through my head.
I would have this massive illusion
in my head and swear to God it was real.
And the kids, that night
I let them listen to the news,
and they just went crazy.
They said, "He's a lying son of a bitch.
Jason didn't tell him nothing."
I could understand why he
would never want to see me again
or talk to me again, but I'm just
telling him right now that I'm sorry.
I made the Statement
to Larry, the sheriff.
I said,
"Larry, those kids are not guilty."
He said, "Joyce."
He said, "it's this simple.
Crittenden County f*cked up,
now we've got to clean up."
I'm a drug addict.
I was doing a lot of inhalants, LSD,
I was huffing gas all the time.
It's bad. It takes your whole perspective
on life and makes it a dream.
And they knew that.
They knew the dr*gs that I was doing.
Did you walk in
those woods in the winter?
Yeah, that was
the best time because during summer
it's really marshy.
During the winter it was froze,
the ground would be froze solid.
So you didn't have to worry about
all the mud and all that business.
I love the thought of being out there.
The cool, dark part of the year,
it's my absolute favorite time of year.
Part of it was that whenever I was out,
that was always the time of year
whenever I felt the safest.
Because most people, whenever
it gets cold, you know, they're not out.
So it's almost like at that time of year
the entire world is almost yours.
Nobody else wants it.
Jason and I would talk about leaving
that place, moving out of that place,
but we were so young that it never was
a definite plan, it was always just
we've got to get the hell out of here.
The thing that Jason always loved
was art. You know, painting,
drawing, things like that.
He would do these paintings
that were absolutely incredible
when he had art class in school.
The teacher would refuse
to grade them.
She would say,
"That's not what I told you to paint.
That's not what I told you to draw,
I don't want to see one more skull."
She would say, you know, "You were
assigned to do a still-life of flowers."
Jason was like, "f*ck that, I'm not
doing that, it's not what I want to do."
I've jokingly said to Lorri before
that I think that, in a lot of ways,
I may have brought this on myself,
this entire situation.
Because when I was a child
I knew what my passion was,
I knew what my drive was, I knew
what my desire was. I loved magic.
I would say to myself, you know,
these names that people think of.
I would say, "One day my name
is gonna eclipse all of them."
I'm gonna be the greatest magician
there's ever been."
And I had no idea that that meant
I would have 20 years
to sit alone in a prison cell
and practice and study.
But that's a word
that you don't even use here,
because when people
hear the word "magic,"
anything even remotely
connected to magic
has to be evil in some kind of way.
Uh, I noticed that Damien,
he had on kind of a black
duster-looking coat and carried a staff.
And I... You know,
that's kind of weird-looking.
But that's one of the things
that I testified to in the court hearing.
Damien, Jason
and Jessie had no motive
whatsoever to k*ll these three boys.
You know,
boys that they didn't even know.
And so, therefore, the State went
to the only motiveless theory
that they could possibly go to.
We thought that the best thing
to do would be to
actually get some expert analysis
on the crime itself.
As far as we could see the best person
to get would be John Douglas,
who was there at the creation
of the FBI Behavioral Science Unit.
From the evidence and the crime scene,
they start to put a picture together
of who committed the crime
and why they committed the crime.
My role when I was brought into this
case was primarily to analyze the case to see
does it really fit the three people
they have in prison?
I didn't wanna know anything
about them.
I don't want to become prejudiced
and be swayed in any way.
If I do an analysis like this, you may not
like what I have to say. I'm not a hired g*n.
When I work on a case like this,
I work for the victims.
No matter who brings me in,
I'm working for the victims.
This appeared to be
what we call a lust m*rder.
There's blunt-force trauma inflicted
on these children.
There was evidence of sexual mutilation
to one of the victims.
Three victims were hog-tied
with their shoelaces
from their wrists to their ankles.
And on the surface, it appeared
to be a sexually motivated crime.
The focus of the investigation
is always on the families.
You start from there,
and you work your way out.
There were some police notes
where they had looked
into the possibility
that a stepfather might be involved.
They take me back to
the police station and said:
"We have information
that you are involved in this crime
and that you did it."
I may have
information that you have something to do
with the disappearance of the boys,
and, ultimately, of the m*rder.
It's almost more than I can
believe, you know, what you just said to me.
And it makes me so mad inside
that I just kind of got to hold myself
here in this chair.
I had hair removed.
I had to have over 30 pubic hairs
pulled out, plus the roots.
We're gonna interview
the other two fathers.
We're gonna ask them
the same questions.
They said, "We're gonna do
the other family members"
just like we gonna do you."
The assumption is that the crime was
unusual, it was bizarre, it was grotesque.
Even when
Paradise Lost 2 comes out,
and they are presenting
an alternative scenario,
they're going to an equally theatrical
possible perpetrator in John Mark Byers.
"Dearest Damien."
There are many things we can do
that can shed light on the truth
of what happened to those boys.
It is impossible
to do something this heinous
and not leave a personal imprint.
We need to do extensive
investigative work on Byers,
"investigative work
that the police failed to do."
I went down to the
Memphis area and conducted
an interview with Mark Byers, or
attempted to conduct an initial interview.
I knocked on his door,
he came out, his wife came out,
and pretty much,
he wanted to kick me off his porch.
He didn't wanna talk to me.
It was daily grind, fighting on the
Internet with people, being in a place
and someone recognizing me
and get up and go call their friends,
then all of a sudden, I got a mob,
and I got to sneak out the back door
because I know
a ass-kicking's coming.
"We need to find all of Mark Byers'
living relatives. We need to find Ryan Clark."
We need to figure out a strategy
for getting him to talk.
We need to know where
and at what time
they went looking for Christopher
on May 5th.
We need to locate all
of Byers' vehicles
that he owned at that time
and Luminol-test them.
We need to access
Byers' ex-residence
and Luminol-test every floor surface
in the house.
Lots of questions,
and not many answers.
But right now
we're still stumbling around in the dark
"looking for a light switch."
Mark Byers, he had a tough life.
He has a criminal history,
got busted for some prescription dr*gs.
But he is not the type of personality
that would perpetrate a crime
like the crimes I was looking at
here in West Memphis.
When we learned the case,
the timeline just
didn't add up to us.
Beyond the theatrical
nature of Mark Byers,
he didn't have a motive,
he didn't actually have the opportunity.
It became clear to us that,
you know,
people were looking at Byers
because they thought he was
the sort of person who could do this.
And our reaction to that was
the reason Damien got convicted
was that people thought he was
the sort of person who could do this.
When I was in the Bureau,
we came up with a crime
classification manual we designed.
We considered Satanic
because these cops were
bringing back these cases to us.
Satanic murders, Satanic murders.
There were classes being offered
all over the country.
Oprah Winfrey had shows,
Geraldo Rivera had shows,
it was all over here.
Another area that you might
find Satanic ritual carving
is in the stomach area.
This is not a Satanic...
This is not a ritual. It's a m*rder.
It's a m*rder
maybe by one crazy guy.
If you're calling this Satanic,
we could have
just as many murders
where a Bible is left there.
Does that make it a Christian m*rder?
It's a Bible? I mean, no, it's nuts.
It's just one, you know, crazy person.
Police say Satanists in our area
often conduct their rituals
in remote, wooded areas.
At some point did Damien
invite you to some meeting?
He did.
The West Memphis
Police didn't seem interested
in corroborating anything,
they just took everything at face value.
A cult, Satanic meeting.
Okay.
I got a phone call from
a lawyer in Fayetteville
who had Vicki Hutcheson
sitting at her desk.
Would you raise your right hand?
Said, "She's ready to recant her
trial testimony, how fast can you get here?"
She obviously asked for immunity
from the State,
which they refused to grant.
So here's the State of Arkansas at
the Rule 37 hearings still stonewalling,
still refusing to let the truth shine
on this case.
Damien and I stood back,
and then these kids took
their clothes off,
and I looked at Damien,
and I said, "I want to leave."
I testified to it, but I lied on the stand.
It was frightening to
listen to her tell the truth,
the truth that I knew had existed
all these years.
The truth that she wouldn't
come out and say
because she was afraid
of what would happen to her.
You mentioned
that you went and met.
Jerry Driver
at the Marion Police Department.
I'm trying to remember.
I do, I know who she is.
It's just kind of back in my mind
somewhere.
What did they ask you to do?
Do I think... They asked me,
do I think I could get, um, Jessie
to introduce me to Damien.
All we asked her was to go
in and see what she could find out.
Now that was with police department's
knowledge and consent.
He's the one that suggested:
"Well, if you're gonna have Damien over,
you to need to have demon books
on your coffee table."
The only thing she was coached
to do was to not get caught,
because we were actually afraid
that if she got caught, he'd k*ll her.
Damien looks down
at those demon book things.
And I said, "Why are you so nervous?"
And he said, "Well, you'd be nervous too
if they thought you k*lled
three little kids."
And I said, "Why would they think you,
of all people?"
And he goes, "I'm... Because I'm weird,
I guess, you know." And I was like...
I Was like, "Well, did you k*ll them?"
He said, "Well, no! I wouldn't do
something like that," like I was stupid.
And he was just like any other kid
his age, you know.
He was just a normal kid.
Any other contact with Damien?
None at all. Okay.
I was just a big liar,
and I really was just a big liar.
I've spent a lot of
the last 17 years looking back
at what I should have done
and what I could have done.
You know, it would be easy for me
to say I did the best I could.
But I didn't.
There's no substitute for experience,
and it's hard to look back.
It was before the trial when
Mr.Fogleman was leaving my office,
I stopped him in the hallway, and I
asked him, "Is this actually Satanic?"
Is that what they're saying?"
And he... His response was no,
it's not Satanic.
It's just m*rder.
It's not something made up,
it's not something dreamed up,
it's not a figment
of our imagination.
The evidence was that this m*rder
had the trappings of an occult m*rder,
a Satanic m*rder.
When you take the crime scene,
the injuries to these kids,
the testimony about sucking of blood,
and there's a transference of power
from drinking of blood.
Could you have any reason
to understand
why someone would do that
to three 8-year-old boys?
Well, you know, everyone can say,
"Well, who did you tell?" Well, nobody.
I think this case was never about justice
because they knew we didn't do this.
Fogleman knew we did not do this.
Is it a coincidence
this Kn*fe is found in the lake,
hidden behind
Jason Baldwin's house?
And the same person that this Kn*fe
is found behind is the person
that told Michael Carson
that he did it,
and he sucked the blood out
of the kid's penis, is that a coincidence?
If you ask me, the
single greatest offense
committed in this case
is what was done by John Fogleman
with the Kn*fe in the lake.
Fogleman had divers search
a small lake behind the trailer park
where Baldwin lived.
That search produced a Kn*fe.
To go out there in this
big pond, and to go right there,
and in just less than 3O minutes
and come up with this... This Kn*fe.
I mean, you win the lottery.
And then there's a reporter covering it.
We interviewed and have
the declaration of the diver.
He said that he was given
a description of the Kn*fe
and where it would be located.
The press said they were told...
And we have the reporter.
"Come to the lake,
we are about to make a discovery."
The prosecution knew the Kn*fe
was in the lake.
Nothing wrong with that.
You have an informant, they tell you:
"Oh, the crime was committed and
we know where the m*rder w*apon is.
They committed the crime
and they threw it in the lake."
The thing is that informant
is of critical importance.
They're the one
who connects it to the crime.
They're the one who allows you
to say it was the m*rder w*apon.
Why don't you call
that informant at trial?
Why instead do you tell a lie,
as John Fogleman did,
and say, "I just had a hunch
it was in the lake"?
The reason is that John Fogleman
had been told how it got in the lake.
It was thrown in the lake
by Jason's mother.
All I know is my son is innocent,
and he has been quiet.
And so there's a connection to Jason.
Why not bring it forward?
Because the same people
who told them that it was in the lake
let him know that it was thrown
into the lake a year before the crime.
He knew that Kn*fe in the lake
had nothing to do with the crime
because he had been told
when it was thrown in the lake.
This Kn*fe, State's exhibit 77,
caused those injuries right there.
Dash, dash, dash.
I think the Kn*fe that
was in the courtroom was the one
that was used on the Byers boy.
I still think that.
People that found the bodies
and saw the wounds
said that it appeared
to be cult-related.
Serrations are consistent with
being inflicted with this type of Kn*fe.
The only way you can tell
if a serrated Kn*fe has been used
is by looking for the serrations
that rub across the skin.
Arkansas is one of
the last remaining States
that has a prosecutor-controlled
crime lab.
What that means is
the medical examiner is not a witness
for what actually happened, but he is
an actual arm of the prosecution.
At this time I would ask that Dr. Peretti
be allowed to show
the photographs and use...
One of the key elements of the case that
we wanted to get into was Frank Peretti.
Dr. Frank Peretti was the assistant
medical examiner at the time
the autopsies were conducted.
He's not actually board-certified.
You get five chances to take
the board exams in Arkansas
and Frank Peretti has
failed them twice.
He's opted out of taking them again
for personal reasons.
His medical testimony at the trial
created a picture in the jury's mind
of a ritualistic, sexual m*rder.
These type of injuries we commonly see
in the female r*pe victim.
Trying to spread the legs
for penetration.
The a**l orifice was dilated, it could be
from putting an object in the anus.
Those types of injuries
we generally see in children
who are forced to perform oral sex.
There's evidence of genital mutilation.
This is the cutting wound here
and the red is the shaft of the penis.
Cutting wounds, superficial cuts,
gouging-type injuries.
Multiple superficial, interrupted cuts,
multiple cuts.
s*ab wounds and cutting wounds.
The Kn*fe is being twisted
and the victim is moving.
Gouging where the skin
has been pulled out.
Gouging wounds, cutting wounds,
s*ab wounds.
Skin is going to tear,
skin has just been pulled away, torn out.
Those were the most horrifying
photographs that anyone could imagine.
Those jurors were scared to death.
He is painting the picture in jury's minds
of an absolutely horrific m*rder.
Cruel and unusual.
It's what the jury hears coming out
of Frank Peretti's mouth
more than anything that sentences
Damien Echols to death.
We took our lead from Peretti himself,
because during the trial he holds up
this textbook on forensic pathology.
And it's written by Vincent DiMaio, who
is a renowned medical examiner in Texas.
I believe you indicated that
Dr. DiMaio and you are on a first-name basis.
Yes, I did.
And so we went to DiMaio himself.
The thing that's most interesting
in this case is that while the autopsies
are done in exquisite detail,
to me, the interpretation of the findings
are completely wrong.
There is nothing here
that I would say was due to a Kn*fe.
Either the cutting edge,
the tip or the back of a Kn*fe.
If you think about how stupid it is,
they're saying they're k*lling these kids.
And, you know, dragging the back
of a Kn*fe across them.
When I looked at the photographs,
it's obvious that by the appearance
of the wounds,
they had occurred after death.
If you're gonna t*rture and mutilate
someone, that's to cause pain to them.
But these wounds are postmortem,
so why are you torturing
and mutilating dead bodies?
It doesn't make sense.
The irregular nature of the wounds,
some scratches.
There's no bleeding, there's no pattern.
To me, it's obvious animal activity.
We actually called the place
back there we used to ride our bikes.
Turtle City. That's just behind there,
because there were so many turtles.
Everywhere, hundreds of them.
Painted turtles, snapping turtles,
soft-shell turtles, all kinds of turtles.
And they actually got such thing
called the alligator snapping turtle
that could be found. I mean...
Big turtles with humps in their back.
That make them look
kind of like alligators.
Our house was up against
a ditch, so we would go back.
There was a lot of them there,
turtles, fish and mud.
You'd see an armadillo that fell
in the water or got hit by a car,
and there'd be like four or five turtles
just chewing on it.
Red flags should go up when
a body is pulled from the water.
Especially in the month of May.
At that latitude,
those reptiles are in high gear.
They're feeding at their highest level,
their most voracious appetites.
Just keep going, keep going.
This is the bite mark I'm looking for.
You can already start to see
the outline of the jaw.
The animals usually
start with soft tissue.
And the scrotum and the skin around
the penis is soft and they're coming off,
so the animal doesn't have to
go against the body mass itself,
but goes at the things
that are dangled in front of it.
And then they'll go to things like lips
and the tip of the nose and the ears.
What you're dealing with
is a horrendous crime.
Three young boys
m*rder*d in cold blood.
Just that alone upsets people.
You look at the bodies and there's
these savage injuries all over.
It affects people emotionally
and it warps their judgment.
And then someone says,
"Maybe it's Satanic!"
And they say, "Well, the only type
of person who would do this"
would be someone like that."
We didn't want just one opinion.
We thought the best thing to do
was basically to get
six or seven of the very best people,
get a wide range of views.
Every single one of the independent
experts that we approached
came out with the same findings.
There's no evidence that these
injuries occurred while they were alive.
There's no evidence that,
as the medical examiner testified,
they were sexually assaulted,
pulled up by the ears, fellatio involved.
The problem is bad science
drives out good science.
You don't have to be a rocket scientist
or a forensic dentist
to look at that serrations on the back
of that Kn*fe and say
that that Kn*fe made these marks.
I mean, give me a break.
That is the most ridiculous Statement
that I've ever heard.
And to sell that to a jury
is unconscionable.
We flew several of these
forensic pathologists down to Arkansas
to meet with Dr. Peretti face-to-face.
Dr. Peretti listened patiently
and nodded his head.
And said he would consider all this.
But he'd concluded that this couldn't
have been caused by a turtle,
and that's kind of where
he drew his line.
Now here all this
information comes in.
I start seeing a totally
different kind of situation.
This is not a lust m*rder
where the k*ller is going after
the genital areas of the victim.
This is what's starting to develop to me
as a personal-cause homicide
directed at these children, but maybe
one more than... More than others.
In all probability this person
would have been interviewed.
Should have been by now,
because he would be the logical person.
There's a connection with the victims.
The person who k*lled those three kids
is still out there walking on the street.
To me, that would seem like
the highest priority. Not this case.
Not me, Jason or Jessie.
You know, don't get me wrong,
we're thankful for the support
that people give us.
But the main thing
I would be thinking about
is there's someone who k*lled three kids
still living in my neighborhood.
If you disregard the
State's Satanic ritual theory,
the entire nature
of the crime changes.
It starts you thinking, "Well, maybe we're
not looking for these extreme suspects."
We're looking for someone
who's kind of ordinary, invisible."
So at that point we thought we should
put more funding into the DNA testing.
We're getting packages and
shipments of all sorts of DNA samples
that we're then forwarding
on to our DNA expert.
Out there was a
process that was going on
that either would be the impetus
for exoneration
or would be the State's last chance
to demonstrate in this highly controversial
case that he was good for it.
And Damien's reaction to that was
that he was absolutely adamant
about the DNA testing.
Of all the samples and all the
various hairs and things that got tested,
there was nothing,
none of the DNA came back.
Nothing matched Damien,
Jason or Jessie.
What was interesting, however,
were some unknown hairs.
There was one hair in particular
that was in the binding
of one of the ligatures.
The boys had their hands
tied with shoelaces,
and right in the middle of a knot
that had been tightened,
there was a hair jammed
in that knot.
Had the hair been located anywhere
other than inside a ligature binding,
I would say, you know,
it's not as significant as it could be.
But given its location, I think
it's particularly damning evidence.
The hair tied into Michael Moore's
ligature had to come from somebody.
So over Christmas, 2006,
we studied John Douglas's report
and started to think about
who that foreign profile could belong to.
"This crime was not nearly
so convoluted nor as twisted"
as the public were led to believe.
John Douglas said that this
is most likely a personal-cause k*lling.
That is to say, the perpetrator knew
one or more of the victims
and had good reason, at least
in his own mind, to act out violently.
We know the boys were bashed
on the head, tied up,
"and thrown into the drainage ditch."
The children were submerged in water,
which is an unnecessary act
if you're a total...
You know, total stranger.
And an unnecessary act to throw
the bicycles into the bayou.
"We know that all of this could have
happened in the space of just 2O minutes."
It almost certainly happened
before dark,
which means the crime in all likelihood
occurred between the hours
of 6:30 and 7:45 p.m.
Who knew these boys
well enough to k*ll them?
Who was out looking for them?
From where I stand we are pretty much
left with a list of three people.
Mark Byers, Terry Hobbs,
and Todd Moore.
Mark Byers began looking
for Chris from 6 p.m.
Terry Hobbs was looking
for Stevie Branch from 5 p.m.
Todd Moore was out of town.
We're left with two stepfathers.
But only one of them has ever been
scrutinized as a suspect.
Byers once referred to himself
as the giant red herring of this case,
and I think
he was speaking the truth.
That is why I am interested
in Terry Hobbs.
Hope this helps to explain
where I'm coming from.
"Sending much love to you, Fran."
We were working with a
private investigator, Rachael Geiser,
and we asked Rachael
to start to investigate Terry.
I'd come in to work daily,
and I would have
all of these e-mails from Fran about:
"Here's what we need to do,
thanks for what you sent."
We really didn't know
a whole lot about Stevie
because Stevie's life
was kind of confusing.
These are the
photographs of Steven Branch.
You had his father,
Stevie, his biological father.
Here we can see...
You had Pam, and then you had Terry.
Other than the fact that nothing's there,
there's nothing that would raise any flags.
And so getting Terry's
DNA became a priority for us now,
and the brief to Rachael was really
get Terry's DNA without him knowing.
Saturday morning, it
was raining out, I remember,
and we showed up
at his house early,
and he opened the door,
and we told him who we were.
He said,
"I've been expecting y'all."
I'll never forget it, he was like,
"Come on in."
I remember we sat there with him
for a while, and he, you know...
He was a likable-enough guy,
he really was.
He talked about their life
and how their life was.
He didn't talk a whole lot about Pam.
I think they were fighting at the time.
And he didn't talk, really,
about Amanda at all.
He interviewed with us,
told us where he was.
He said that was the first time
he'd ever told anyone his whereabouts.
So we waited in the living room
while he was in the bathroom, I assume,
and that's when I took the cigarette
butts out of the ashtray. Yeah.
We got the fax,
and I'm reading the fax,
and I'm reading the fax,
and at some point I said, "Holy f*ck."
We all were just kind of stunned to see
this very dramatic DNA result.
Terry comes in, sits down,
and we tell him, you know...
The DNA that was found
on the hair doesn't match.
Damien or Jason or Jessie.
So it's somebody else's DNA.
They don't know whose?
Tell me. Yours.
No. Yes, it is.
No, that's wrong.
We had to get him to come in because we
knew that he didn't voluntarily give us this DNA.
We wanted to get either a voluntary
sample or we need to see him
do something, you know,
that would have left his DNA.
Terry Hobbs would not, at any point,
give me his DNA voluntarily, no.
The biggest bombshell
of the new defense investigation
is that an unexplained hair that could
be from another victim's stepfather
was found on shoelaces
at the crime scene.
They say the DNA matches victim
Stevie Branch's stepfather, Terry Hobbs.
Hobbs tells me tonight, quote,
"I don't have anything to hide.
I'll answer any questions."
Mr. Hobbs, do you feel like the attorneys
are accusing you of this crime?
The answer to that would be no.
Is it possible, Mr. Hobbs,
that that was your hair?
Sure, it was his son, Steven Branch,
who was m*rder*d, and he's had
to deal with this for the last 15 years.
The first tattoos I
got was my parents' name...
because I love them
more than anything in the world.
I've abused dr*gs for many years
and I'm only 21
and I feel like it's because
I'm trying to hide.
I did it to suppress something,
to cover something up.
And where are your kids
during this time, at your mom's?
Mm-hm. They live with my mom.
And so why don't you stay
with your mom?
She thinks I'm too wild.
So she says, "You can't stay here
because you're too wild"?
And I'm hung out on a limb.
What's that mean,
you're hung out on a limb?
That I'm going crazy the way
she did when Stevie d*ed.
Once Terry Hobbs surfaced,
it certainly advanced things.
It helped shift the momentum.
The West Memphis
Police Department realized
that they had never actually
interviewed him,
despite the fact that he was
a stepfather of one of the victims.
They quickly conducted an interview
with Terry Hobbs in 2007.
Anything unusual
when you got home, at all?
Nothing other than, uh,
Stevie wasn't home.
Terry Hobbs said to everyone
that he was very concerned
when Stevie Branch didn't
come home at 4:30 that night.
If he was so worried at 4:30,
why didn't he call Stevie's mom?
When he does finally tell her,
9:00, almost five hours later.
This person knows that he will be
a logical suspect at some point,
but what he needs,
he needs time on his hands.
He needs to establish an alibi.
We studied his movements that night.
He had spent some period of time
on the evening of May the 5th
in the house of David Jacoby,
who was a friend of his.
And I asked David, I said,
"Would you go help me?"
He was with me probably
2:00 or 3:00 in the morning.
May the 6th.
Jacoby here is kind of a witness.
He never had this window of opportunity
to perpetrate a crime like that
because he was with him
for such a long period of time.
We got a sample of David
Jacoby's DNA voluntarily...
and the analysis came back to say
that another hair
that was found on a tree stump by
the ditch where the bodies were found
was consistent
with David Jacoby's DNA.
I wasn't even aware that
he went to David Jacoby's.
According to Terry, he was walking the
streets and searching the whole night.
So that was news to me
when I found out.
Is there anything you can think
of that we hadn't gone over?
That we hadn't asked, something
you remembered through the years?
You'd thought they would do a
meaningful interview with Terry Hobbs.
It was as if they were sitting out
on the back porch just sharing a beer.
"We know you didn't
have much to do with this."
Just, you know, for old time's sake,
why don't you describe again
"how you didn't have anything
to do with this?"
It didn't have the atmosphere
of a serious interrogation at all.
You know, I don't know what happened
out there in them woods that night.
Mike Allen, the lead
investigator at the time,
and now the sheriff
of Crittenden County,
issued a Statement saying
Terry Hobbs was not a suspect then
and he's not a suspect now.
A question that has got to be asked
is that why have they so staunchly
refused to regard him
as a person of interest?
There.
Terry, appreciate it, man.
As we sit here today, there are
272 post-conviction DNA exonerations.
DNA is the essential element
to prove their innocence,
and these people have done
more than 3500 years in prison.
On the other hand,
there are many, many cases, urn,
where there's been DNA that's helpful,
as in the West Memphis Three case,
because it does shed light
on other suspects.
And it does put particular significance
on the absence of evidence.
There's an old phrase
in the forensic science business
that absence of evidence
is not evidence of absence.
Yeah, that's true.
On the other hand,
when you have DNA testing,
and you've gone through every piece
of trace evidence at a crime scene,
and you find nothing
that links the defendants
who have been convicted
to the crime, that is significant.
This may be Damien Echols'
final appeal at the State level.
If his arguments are denied,
the case then jumps into federal court.
A decision is expected
in about a week.
All the investigative
findings, the scientific results,
including the DNA, all of that is going
to be presented to Judge Burnett.
Finally, Judge Burnett can consider
this case with all this new information
that wasn't available to him
or the prosecution back in 1994.
And so we were looking forward
to having him reevaluate the case.
We really had high hopes.
We wanted to give the attorney
general some sense that it was coming.
We told him that there'd be
these DNA results
and we got into a discussion.
What would you have
to show to get a new trial?
And there was a point of laughter
where one of them said:
"We're gonna set this bar
as high as we possibly can."
Which is to say, we're gonna try
and get a court to rule
"that it is really impossible to ever win
under the Arkansas DNA statute."
People ask us what we're gonna do
whenever I'm out, when we're together.
And we do talk about that. Um...
For Lorri and I, life isn't something that
will happen one day down the road.
You know, we're together now, here.
We're not just in a State
of suspended animation, waiting.
He was 21, I guess, when I met him.
He hadn't yet really started studying
at that point, so it was kind of funny.
You know, I was in a different place
in my life, and... But now,
I mean, I would ask him for advice
before I would ask anybody.
I send him a lot of used books,
and it is really fascinating to look at.
Because when I'm reading a book
or when he's reading,
then we're going through...
As everyone does in their life.
You're going through
specific things.
You have 90 seconds left on this call.
Uh, I don't normally read a lot of fiction anymore.
I haven't for several years,
but a couple of days ago,
someone sent me
the new Stephen King book.
You know, I started reading his books
when I was probably 10 or 11 years old.
People have always
undervalued him.
You know,
they look at him as this, um, hack.
This hack writer who churns out
horror novels.
In all of his books at the end,
he always addresses the reader.
You know, he thanks you for going on
this voyage with him,
and so I wanted to read it to you.
"All right, I think we've been down here
in the dark long enough."
There's a whole other world upstairs.
Take my hand, constant reader,
and I'll be happy to lead you
back into the sunshine.
I'm happy to go there because I believe
most people are essentially good.
I know that I am.
"It's you I'm not entirely sure of."
A judge says no to new trial.
Judge Burnett made it clear that
the DNA evidence isn't enough for a new trial
or to overturn the conviction.
David Burnett wouldn't hear
the new evidence.
He complete...
He denied it without even hearing it.
What can you do? I mean, in our minds,
we started to entertain the idea
that Damien might be ex*cuted.
My life would have been a lot simpler
if I hadn't been involved in that case.
I had to fiddle with it for 18 years
and get beaten over the head by folks
that were opposed to what happened.
But I didn't pick and choose,
I just took what came down the pipe.
It's not unusual
for post-conviction motions
to be made in front of the judge
that originally heard the trial.
The theory behind that is the judge
who originally heard the trial
saw all the witnesses testify
and is in the best position
to evaluate the new evidence.
But all of us are victims of bias that
we don't even understand or know,
and sometimes you have
to abandon hypotheses
that you've relied on in the past
and try to freshly evaluate
the evidence.
All of this hoop-de-la about
newly discovered evidence.
There is no
newly discovered evidence.
All of the evidence that was found
originally at the trial scene.
Judge David Burnett finally
decides to stand for Senate.
We hoped like hell
that he would get elected.
Because once he was elected
to Senate,
he was unable to have anything
to do with this case anymore.
So Judge Burnett
heard what he heard,
and he and his jury
made their decision.
It was up to people from all over
the world, and that would be you.
And the people next to you
right now,
coming together to make
some real justice happen.
I would like to read something
to you guys.
"I can't remember what it's like to walk
as a human being anymore."
It's been well over 16 years since
I've actually walked anywhere.
There are times when I've thought,
surely, someone is gonna put
a stop to this.
Oh, well, it does no good
to dwell on it.
Either I waste my energy by focusing
on things I cannot change,
"or I conserve my energy, and
apply it to small things I can change."
Each small thing connects
to make a great, big thing.
And that big thing is
to bring those boys back home.
This is something
I came across today
and it's just a small paragraph of one
of Damien's letters from this February.
"The thing I like most about time is that
it's not real. It's all in the head."
There's no such thing as the past,
it exists only in the memory.
There's no such thing as the future,
it exists only in our imagination.
If our watches were truly accurate,
the only thing they would ever say
is 'now."'
And that's what time it is. Now.
♪ Come gather 'round, people ♪
♪ Wherever you roam ♪
♪ And admit that the waters ♪
♪ Around you have grown a'
♪ And accept that it soon
You'll be drenched to the bone r
♪ If your time to you
Is worth savin' I
♪ Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone a'
r For the times
They are a-changin' a'
r Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call 4'
♪ Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall a'
♪ For he who gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled a'
♪ There's a battle outside
And it's ragin' a'
♪ It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls a'
♪ Oh, the times
They are a-changin' N
One day, I get a phone call
from my manager
saying Terry Hobbs is suing me.
"Dearest Lorri, are the
Dixie Chicks fighting this?"
This is a great opportunity to give
Terry Hobbs his day in court,
"get all the facts out in the open
and let a jury decide."
You swear to tell nothing but the truth,
so help you God? I do.
State your name for the record, sir.
Terry Hobbs.
You can put your hand down now.
Could you tell the ladies and gentlemen
why you sued my client?
All of the emotions, distress,
the anger.
That her Statements caused you'?
Correct.
I didn't say anything about him. I had no
intentions of finger-pointing at Terry Hobbs.
I don't even know
that Terry Hobbs did it.
I sort of asked my attorney,
"Why would he be doing this?"
He was confident
that he was gonna win
and he was gonna get
millions of dollars.
I think he's gutsy.
He had to have been warned that if he
did that, he would have to be deposed,
which he was,
and have to answer questions.
We gave Natalie's
attorney, D'Lesli Davis,
access to our investigative files
on Terry, his background,
his relationship with Stevie.
And it enabled them to basically
sit him down
and to finally question him
in a way that he had never, ever been
questioned about this m*rder before.
Describe your reputation, other than just
"a good man." What else would it be?
A hard-working man, good dad,
good husband in the past.
Uh...
Pretty good man.
Are you an honest fellow?
I try my best.
Law-abiding man?
I do pretty good at it.
We started doing
background on Terry.
I went to Garland County because
I knew he had lived there before,
specifically to interview his ex-wife.
And it raised some flags at that point.
She told me he had gotten in trouble.
I went to the court records
in Garland County and was able to pull
that incident involving Mildred French.
Let me give you a minute to go through
the declaration of Mildred French.
All right.
Have you read it?
No, I'm not going to.
Why not?
It don't mean nothing to me.
Why doesn't it mean anything to you?
It just don't.
Mildred French was a neighbor of yours
back in the '80s, wasn't she?
I don't remember.
Paragraph number four, "On
one occasion I heard a baby crying"
and sounds that indicated to me that Terry
Hobbs was b*ating his wife and/or his child."
She kind of let out a cry,
and then I heard the baby.
"I ran next door to Terry's unit
and rang the bell
to Terry Hobbs' residence."
He said it was none of my business,
and I said, "I'm making it my business,
you do it again."
I said,
"Because I've heard you before."
Do you recall she was your neighbor?
Some old woman was.
"A few months later,
I worked outside in my yard.
I went inside my home to take a shower
and get cleaned up."
And I got out of the tub and when
I was reaching in to get the towel...
"Terry Hobbs, who had broken in
and somehow gotten upstairs
into my bathroom..."
I didn't see him come into the bathroom.
He just grabbed me on my breasts.
"I screamed at Terry loudly,
'What are you doing in my house?'".
And screamed, 'Get out!"'
He said, "Shh! Shh!"
"I kept repeating loudly."
"Get out of my house!"
"And ultimately Terry ran out of
my home and ran downstairs into his unit."
What is your recollection
of those events...?
I don't have any.
Let me finish.
What is your recollection of the reason
that the police were called
and those events that Ms. French
remembers so clearly?
I don't have any.
"I said to Terry,
'Tell them what you did to me.'."
Terry looked at me square in the eye
and said calmly, 'It never happened.'
I looked at Terry and told him,
'You are a liar and you are sick.
And I say, "You know, you're sick."
And he says, "Yeah, I'm sick."
I never did like him, I mean...
Even when Pam first married him,
.there was just always something.
He creeped me out.
Do you lose your temper very often?
No.
Pretty even-keeled guy?
Try to be.
He's got a look that's plum evil,
and when that look of evil comes
over him, you know, I know he's mad.
What... What's this?
It is a judgment
against one Terry W. Hobbs
for aggravated as*ault in '94,
in conjunction with the sh**ting
of your brother-in-law.
Is that your signature at the bottom
of the first page, sir?
It is.
He can snap into a nice guy
and a bad guy by a snap of a finger.
You did backhand Pam Hobbs
the night you ended up
sh**ting her brother,
correct? Okay.
Is that correct?
Yeah. All right.
Is that funny?
Well, it's... You get tired of talking
about it after a while.
I need, for the record, for you
to State under oath that you did
I did. Backhand Pam Hobbs.
It was over a jealousy of a woman.
I was just trying to get away
and calm down, cool off,
and come back home,
and he wouldn't let me have the keys.
So he punched me pretty hard
that day.
Were you jealous over the
attention that Pam gave to Stevie?
No. Did you compete with Stevie
for Pam's attention? No.
He had made a comment to his mom
that I paid more attention to my son
than I did, you know,
being a wife, so...
Stevie started talking to me
probably when he was about 6 years old,
and he wanted to know
if I could keep a secret.
And I told him, yeah, because we were
really... We were very, very close.
Kind of like, you know,
grew up together.
Because I was 8 years old
when he was born.
Daddy Terry, as he called him,
was mean to him.
And that he... He treated him
different than Amanda.
The very first thing he ever told me
is about how he would whup him.
Make him hold his hands up
in the air,
and he would hold him
by the hair of his head
while he was whupping him.
He'd hold their hands
in the air as he whipped them.
Sometimes when he whipped Stevie,
he would leave belt marks on him.
Is that true? No.
Is it true you whipped Stevie with a belt?
Yes.
Is it true that you whipped Stevie and
made him hold his hands up in the air?
I didn't want to hit him
on the hands.
So that's true? Yes.
The only thing that's not true
about paragraph number 1O
is that you would leave
belt marks on him?
Not that I recall.
Stevie had a belt mark on him,
and I asked Pam who whipped him.
I thought she had
and she said Terry did.
She didn't want to tell at first,
but she finally told me.
Stevie never would tell us because
he's afraid he'd get b*at to death
or whatever when he got home.
And about locking him up in the
closet if he didn't do what he was told
right when he was told.
I lived with them.
I was around them off and on.
It was a happy time.
I've got pictures,
everybody's smiling,
everybody's happy.
Everybody's swimming,
everybody's having a good time.
There was no fighting
and screaming and hollering
and b*ating the kids
and stuff like that.
I can't say, "I wish he wouldn't
have married her." I can now.
Back then I didn't know her
enough to say, "Ew."
But I do now, so, "Ew."
Then he got into a little more detail about
things that were happening about...
Terry would come into his room
while he was asleep or going to sleep...
and he would make
Stevie watch him masturbate.
It progressed so much that he started
making Stevie mess with Amanda.
Is that true, sir?
No, it's not true.
Can you think of any reason that
Judy Sadler would say that about you
if she had not heard that from Stevie?
You'd have to ask Judy.
Can you think of any reason?
No.
She's told me about that,
but I really feel like, if that was true,
why didn't you say that
16, 17, or 18 years ago?
Why do you wait
this long to say it?
Because maybe if it would have
been true and she said something,
then my mom would've kept me,
she would've fought for me.
This is kind of a new thing
for y'all, this therapy stuff,
so that's pretty stressful.
But you'll get comfortable with that.
"Guilt. I feel guilty practically all the
time." Can you put a finger on the guilt?
Where's that guilt coming from?
I don't know.
Just can't seem
to pick it out, huh?
Attached here, too, is exhibit
one, pages from Amanda Hobbs' journal
in her handwriting.
"You know, I think I'm the only
19-year-old that can't remember"
what happened in my life
10 years ago.
Was I traumatized as a child that
I had to turn to dr*gs to forget about it?
I used to tell my mom,
'My dad messed with me.'
I honestly don't remember.
I used to dream about my dad having
sex with me, but it was just a dream.
As far as I remember,
my dad never touched me sexually,
"but he b*at the hell out of me."
He hit me one time with a belt,
but he used the buckle.
And it left a welt, probably that thick,
across my whole back and it was purple.
Is it still your testimony
you never hit your daughter?
Correct.
You never sexually molested her?
Never one time.
When we talk about emotional or
other problems your daughter has had,
you do not feel you are
responsible for any of those.
Is that correct? Correct.
I know Stevie asked me about
two weeks before he was m*rder*d
to leave Terry,
and I asked him why.
And he said, "He loves Amanda,
but he don't love me."
I feel like I'm putting the pieces
of a puzzle together and I'm so scared.
Talking to Terry over things
that's happened and all that,
they did their job,
they got the right ones, and all this.
I just want the truth.
I want the answers.
Since the program aired,
convictions were handed down
to all three of the accused teenagers,
and it became undeniable
that the brutal murders
had been part of a Satanic ritual.
Back with us today,
Pam and Terry Hobbs.
I mean, all m*rder is horrible.
Is the manner of his,
the specific manner in which he d*ed,
is that something
that will always haunt you?
Yeah, I'll go to my grave with it,
thinking about it.
I realize my son
is in a better place.
I got a phone call back
in 2003 about the Hobbs knives
that Pam discovered
when their marriage went south.
What stuck out to our attention
is Stevie's Kn*fe in there.
According to Pam, that Kn*fe
would have been in the boy's pocket
the day that he was m*rder*d,
and so that was very interesting.
How did he get it? More
important, when did he get it?
Pam says she knows Stevie Branch
had it until he d*ed. Terry Hobbs says...
I was his dad,
I was acting as a responsible parent.
Not letting a 6-, 7-, 8-year-old little boy
carry a pocket Kn*fe.
Aren't you aware
that his mommy, his mother,
said that he carried the Kn*fe with him
up until the time that he disappeared?
So?
And she Stated
that she didn't trust
the prosecution and she wanted
to turn it over to the defense.
I'm asking if it surprised you,
given the fact that the West Memphis Police
has spent so much time
and so much money over the years
saying they got it right, that when
DNA attributed to someone else
was found in the ligature
of one of the victims
that they attributed it
to secondary transfer?
What if it was secondary transfer?
What if it wasn't?
What are you saying?
I'm saying there could be a question
about whether or not you were
somehow involved in these crimes.
Well, who says that?
How do you explain
Mr. Jacoby's DNA?
Which is the second...
I have no explanation for that.
Objection to form...
We was in them woods all night.
The first time I heard about DNA was
the lack of DNA at the crime scene.
The first time I heard about my DNA,
it was just shock therapy, I think.
Telling me that they found my DNA
at the crime scene.
Sleepless nights, you know,
going over and over,
trying to see if there was something
you missed or something you heard or...
It's your testimony Mr. Jacoby
was with you all night in the woods?
We were together quite a bit that night.
No, that's not my question.
You testified earlier
that you and Mr. Jacoby
were together all night
until it was time
for him to go to work. Exactly.
Is that your story, or are you changing it?
No, we were.
So I'm at home and I
hear a knock on the door.
And it's Terry and Amanda.
I ask him what's he doing. He says:
"Oh, looking for Stevie,
he was supposed to be home."
"Terry and Amanda
came inside my house."
Amanda played with toys and Terry
and I sat down and played guitars
"for up to one hour." You've
already Stated that it's possible
you went to David's house
and played guitars for one hour.
I didn't say that.
You said that in your last deposition.
I don't recall playing the guitars.
I went over to see if David would
help me look for the three little boys.
"Pretty Woman," Roy Orbison.
I handed him my guitar and asked him
to play that part of that song again,
so I could get it down and he...
We did that two or three times,
you know, before I finally got it right.
So, you know,
a little time went by and he says:
"Well, you know,
I need to go look for Stevie."
I said, "Terry, let me know.
Let me know where you find him."
Did you see Stevie
at all that day, May the 5th?
No, I did not.
Did you see any
of the three boys that day?
No, I did not.
I think the timeframe is what
pulled us in more than anything else,
because I was like, "Wait a minute."
We went to church every Wednesday
at the same time.
We left about 6:30 every single
Wednesday, we never missed church.
And we saw them out there.
Terry Hobbs and Steven Branch
lived three houses down from us
on South McAuley.
About 6:30, we came out the door
and Steven was in front on his bike.
Christopher and Michael
were running behind him,
and they zoomed out real fast.
I told Christopher,
I yelled to him, "You need to go home."
Your brother said to go home."
He said, "I don't have to do
what you tell me to do."
And I saw Terry walking down
the sidewalk, and he was saying:
"Y'all come back down here,"
and they all went in that direction
toward him and we got in the car
and went to church.
The next day at school,
Ryan came up to us and he said
they couldn't find his brother,
his brother didn't come home.
I told him, "I saw your brother,
I talked to him."
I told him to come home.
What are you talking about?"
He was really devaStated,
he was crying.
And he said that they found his brother,
and he wasn't alive anymore.
We knew we saw him,
but we thought,
"There, his dad was out there with him.
Surely, they told him
that they were down there."
So we thought all this time
that they already knew.
If deemed credible, it's more damning
than even the DNA evidence, you know.
I mean, the last person to be
in the presence of these three victims.
By denying that occurred, rather than
offering any explanation of it,
it's awfully powerful stuff.
These people here
were never interviewed.
They were just neighbors of Hobbs.
Hobbs wasn't interviewed.
Didn't do a neighborhood.
They'll swear on a stack of Bibles
that they saw Terry Hobbs
with the three children around 6:30.
I don't know how many years
before anybody had asked me
anything about it too.
You say you were not ever alone
on the night of May 5th
and the morning of May 6th,
and yet David Jacoby
says you left his house twice, alone.
What Jacoby has told us so far
is that it could be two hours where
Terry Hobbs can't be accounted for.
I'm saying that you
don't have an alibi witness
for two to two and a half hours
on the evening of the murders.
From 6 p.m. to 8:30 p.m.
I don't know.
Does that concern you? No.
Hello? Hey.
Had me a visitor today.
John, what's...? John Douglas?
John's the FBI.
Ah... What'd he say?
There's a bunch of discrepancies
on where I said where we're at
and where you say we were at,
and it just...
I don't give a sh*t what them people
got to say
about where I was at
and what time I was there.
We don't have to answer
to them people.
David is his primary alibi,
and what he has done in the past,
he's fed information to David,
putting them together.
I don't know, from
what I said and what you said
and what they're telling me,
6:30 to 9:30's really f*cked up.
Six-thirty to nine-thirty.
I don't know what they're playing...
We rode around
looking for three little boys.
We got out and we did a little walking,
looking for three little boys.
I went and picked my wife up
at 9:00.
"Where did you ride around,
Mr. Hobbs?" West Memphis.
What'? You was with me, David.
You remember that?
Jacoby is starting to
realize that he was being set up
by Terry Hobbs as an alibi.
Well, we know we didn't do it, okay?
The police know who done it,
and they're sitting in prison.
At the time, I wasn't looking
for three m*rder*d kids.
I was helping my friend
look for his kid
and who happened to be
with another kid
who happened to be
with another kid.
So I mean, and what upsets me is...
Yeah.
I gotta stop with the camera,
here it goes.
It just gets me that he didn't
come back, you know? f*ck.
Why do you not come back
to your friend's house to help you
if you can't find your kid?
Yeah.
I stopped myself from saying
that he did it,
you know, in all these years.
I've actually, you know,
said he couldn't...
It gets to the point, I'd give my
life to know the f*cking truth.
f*cking Terry.
But I've been that little kid,
you know?
You been that step...? That stepchild?
That stepkid, yeah.
That gets his ass whupped
at the drop of a hat for...
You know, for something
somebody else's done.
And you catch what's
built up from everybody else.
And that, I felt that with Stevie.
I mean, like with the marbles.
He's throwing marbles
and bouncing them off the wall.
Terry is telling him,
"I'm gonna bust your ass. Quit."
Stevie, I'm gonna bust your ass.
Stevie, quit.
"Stevie, quit. I'm gonna tell you
one more time, Stevie."
And, you know, you just want...
You wanna get that last marble.
And Stevie's looking like that
last marble's fixing to come again,
and I said, you know, "Sit down, let me
show you how we played marbles."
And it got Terry, you know,
off of him, and...
Terry hated him.
What he did to him
to make him hate him, I don't know.
Stevie was scared of Terry.
He was hid in the closet, and I asked
him why he was hid in a closet.
You know, he had
a mishap in his underwear
and Daddy Terry would whip him.
And one time he had thrown him
against the wall.
I do not believe
the homicide was planned.
This person responsible for the murders
lost control and had to k*ll them.
They were already heading that way, and
he said, "Get back down to the house."
And they passed him,
they were laughing and playing.
We thought it was a normal day.
It was things we saw them do
all the time.
You were not angry in the sense
that you become physically abusive?
Correct.
These young boys were overpowered.
You do not fly into rages?
Correct.
And you do not b*at your children?
Never.
If he was capable of doing this,
and I can almost picture it,
that he freaked out, and the other
two boys being there, um...
They've got skull fractures,
they've got brain injuries.
If it had been an accident,
the Terry Hobbs that I know,
no, I don't think that he would say
that, "I accidentally did this."
"I'm sorry," and turn himself in for it.
These children were alive until
they inhaled water and drowned.
To do what he did to the children,
hide the clothing, hide the children,
he got in water, got muddy.
There's been some
discussion about you doing laundry
the evening of the 5th
or the morning of the 6th.
Recall that? It didn't happen.
You didn't do laundry?
No.
I saw him cleaning.
I saw him washing clothes.
I saw him in Stevie's room.
I mean, he had bleach and everything
and was cleaning.
I had never seen Terry
clean anything
the whole time I had known him.
When he took me to work, I believe
Terry changed into a purple t*nk top,
a pair of shorts
and his LA Gear tennis shoes.
He's muddy,
he has to change his clothing.
When he picked me up from work,
he was in blue jeans
and flannel top shirt on.
He has to get prepared
and wait to be interviewed.
And you have a dispute with every
single one of your alibi witnesses.
If you put
all of these Statements together,
and all the evidence together
that I've just run through,
and you're the police,
wouldn't you wanna look
at Terry Hobbs for this m*rder?
You'd have to look
at Terry Hobbs.
From an investigative perspective,
it solidifies Terry Hobbs
as the principal suspect.
It's gonna be tough
for someone like him to confess.
If he is in fact the guy,
it's extremely tough.
He's had 18 years to think about it.
He's got an answer for everything.
You throw him a pitch, he's got it.
You know, he knows how to hit it.
The attorney general's office
has taken the position
that not only should these
wrongly convicted young men
not have the opportunity
to prove their innocence,
but that no one ever in Arkansas
be given that opportunity
on the grounds that Arkansas
is incapable
of ever convicting anyone wrongly.
It's one thing to build perception
that there's something wrong.
It's another thing to get
a formal judgment overturning it.
There are still some formidable
legal obstacles to opening that door.
Tell us why you're here today.
I'm here for justice
and the real k*ller to be found out.
If I've had to be the spotlight
of people thinking I was involved,
if that kept the case alive
to get where we are today,
I'd turn around
and do it all over again.
Talk about what has been so impactful
in this case that has changed your mind.
Because that day,
you believed he was the k*ller.
That day I believed
what the State told me.
And it took quite a while
of being blinded,
and when I finally
got my answers,
none of the roads
led to the three in prison.
All the roads and all the evidence
lead to Terry Wayne Hobbs.
This case is outrageous.
People need to get involved and help
on this case. I am happy to get involved,
donating my time,
time from my law firm, pro bono,
because these young men
need a fair trial.
If they're convicted again? Fine.
But do it fair. Do it constitutionally.
It's an endurance test
to keep up with this.
I think I was in my late 20s
when I first heard about it.
I am now 45.
We'd buy Doritos and Skittles
and M&M's.
And we'd sit down, and I'll have napkins
and then Damien would say:
"All right, put out your napkin,
okay, try this, all right."
One Ruffle, two orange Skittles.
All right, get the root beer ready.
"Now eat that, drink that
at the same time, isn't that crazy?"
It's a long, long process. We've all had
to educate ourselves and learn patience.
We'd make a small breakthrough
or something and Lorri and I would
have a long two-hour phone call.
We'd get off the phone,
think this is gonna be a happy ending.
There's gotta be a happy ending to this.
One thing that could
happen is they could say no.
"Judge Burnett was right.
You lose, no new hearing, Damien.
Sorry, done."
And then he literally is done
in the Arkansas court.
The oral argument today
it is Damien Wayne Echols
v. The State of Arkansas.
So we have a situation
here where the Arkansas legislature
passed these statutes out of, quote,
"In response to nationwide concerns"
that innocent persons
were being imprisoned
"and even ex*cuted
for crimes that they did not commit."
However, the State takes the position
that the only evidence other than DNA
allowed in a DNA action in this State
is evidence of guilt.
The fact of the matter is
that DNA evidence
that couldn't have been obtained
15 years ago
begins to make things relevant.
Connect to other evidence that did
not appear relevant 15 years ago.
So your interpretation is it's not
really just new scientific evidence.
It's new evidence
across the board that'll come?
Yes, Your Honor.
The animating purpose of this statute
is not to do away
with finality of judgments,
but to test evidence of innocence.
Doesn't that include
the last 17 years?
No, well, I'm sorry.
Does it include the last...?
The last 17 years, or are you limiting
the evidence that can be presented?
You can't bring in evidence that
is just further reweighing of evidence
that the State post-conviction processes
permit you to make in other forums.
Now certainly he would like to have
a much freer reign
to go back to court
and bring in 17 years' worth of claims
that have been made
and retry his case.
Counselor, what harm is there in
allowing him to present the evidence
from the last 17 years?
I'm sorry?
What harm is there to...? In
allowing him to present all evidence?
The harm is in the
finality of a criminal judgment
that is not demonstrated
to have any constitutional
or procedural defect
and just to try it again. I mean...
We would submit that the court
is to consider the DNA evidence,
along with all other evidence,
whether or not admitted at the first trial.
All simply means all.
I talked to him, actually,
right after the hearing.
Guards came into his cell
and took everything,
everything he owns. All of his books.
Fifty-one books, his journals, his shoes.
When he asked
why they were doing that,
they said they were sick
of seeing him on the news.
It's terribly abusive.
They were horribly abusive to him.
They don't like the death-row thing.
They're trying to get Damien Echols
off of death row
so they can put
two new people in there,
and you know
who them two new people is?
Don't even say it. Me and you.
I ain't never felt the need to have to
try to defend somebody
in our family before,
but now I feel like
my brother's getting a bad rap.
Somebody's got to say something.
He, obviously, is just gonna
keep letting it go and letting it go
because he feels like he's had enough,
you know, and it's...
Somebody needs to say something.
If they're trying to put the blame
on someone,
they need to dig deeper
and find that someone.
Received December 11th at 11:02 a.m.
Ummm... Hello. I
need to speak to somebody,
so please have someone call me.
Marker.
State your name, please.
Blake Sisk.
How old are you?
Twenty years old. Okay.
The other day
we got a call on the tipline.
This young man had been a friend
of Michael Hobbs Jr.,
who is the nephew of Terry Hobbs.
Michael Hobbs Jr. Lives in a town
called Mountain Home, Arkansas.
His dad, Michael Hobbs Sr.,
runs a restaurant there,
and they've lived there
for a long time.
First thing he told us was that
when he was about 12 or 13,
he and Michael Hobbs Jr.
Had been playing football in the yard.
And when they got done playing football,
they came into the house,
got a drink and were gonna
go to the basement to play pool.
Michael said, you know,
that his uncle and dad
were in their downstairs basement,
and we were gonna go downstairs,
but his dad hollered,
you know, "Don't come down here,
we're busy talking."
So me and Michael
decided to listen in.
Michael Hobbs Jr. Told the witness
that his dad was down there
with his uncle,
sounding like
he might have been crying, saying:
"I'm sorry for what happened
and I regret it."
Michael's dad was just consoling him
about, you know, the situation
and everything would be all right.
"You're not in any trouble."
A number of years later,
he and a friend
were picked up by Michael Hobbs Jr.
In Michael Hobbs Jr.'s truck.
My name's Cody Gott. This is fine.
You can use this for whatever you need
to use it for. You have my permission.
When he picked us up, it was like...
It wasn't the same Michael that I...
You know what I mean? He wasn't...
Wasn't in the same mood
that he usually is.
He's usually outgoing,
like, ready to go do something.
Ready to talk, ready to...
And he was just real quiet.
He wasn't as talkative, and I asked him
what was going on and he...
"What's up, man?"
And he said, he told me that:
"My uncle Terry,
he k*lled those kids
in that case,
in the West Memphis Three case."
And then he was like, well, "My dad
told me that my uncle's the one"
who m*rder*d those three kids and
it's been, you know, on my mind all day.
"It's been just running
through my head."
And I was just in shock,
I didn't really know what to say.
Then, according to Michael Hobbs Jr.,
the second witness says
that his dad called this, quote,
"the Hobbs' family secret," close quote.
He said, "Only me, my dad, my uncle"
and I think maybe his mom
and someone else in the family
might have knew.
It might have been the other brother.
He called it the Hobbs' family secret,
and he said:
"If they knew I told you,
I would be in deep crap."
There was one third
friend that they thought
might also have some information.
What this third witness told me:
"Michael Hobbs Jr. And I and a third
friend were playing pool in the basement."
During the game,
the third friend said something
"about the West Memphis Three case."
Then this young man,
the third witness, asked:
"What's the
West Memphis Three case?"
Might be the only teenager
in Arkansas
who didn't know what
the West Memphis Three case was.
He asked that question
and Michael Hobbs Jr.
Responded to him by saying, quote:
"My uncle k*lled three kids
in West Memphis," close quote.
And according to this third witness,
Michael Hobbs Jr.
Was dead serious when he said this.
He was not fooling around.
In addition to getting them to sign the
declarations under penalty of perjury,
they all took polygraph examinations.
The polygraph examiner concluded
that these three young men
were absolutely telling the truth about
what they heard Michael Hobbs Jr. Say.
I don't even think Michael knows
why he did it.
I just... You know, he knows
it happened, he knows he did it.
And it was his dad...
His dad is... Probably would know,
you know, why he did it.
We don't have any power
as defense attorneys
to call Michael Hobbs Sr. Into my office
and to ask him to tell me
whether he called this the
Hobbs' family secret and why he did.
The prosecutor can issue
a grand jury subpoena
and ask Michael Hobbs Sr.
In the grand jury
where he's under penalty of perjury
if he lies, "Did you say this?"
Why'd you say it?
What did you mean?"
And I think
that's the kind of information
that only the prosecutor can get
that could really cr*ck this wide open.
I don't give a
sh*t what happened 17 years ago
I know what didn't happen.
Me and you didn't do nothing wrong.
So f*ck them m*therf*ckers.
We're proud people. We don't
have no reason to tuck our head.
You hit a bump in the road, you wasn't
expecting a speed bump being there,
but you pick yourself up on other side
of that speed bump
and go, "Damn, I didn't see
that one coming," and keep on going.
Pam's a speed bump.
I'll put her that way.
Was Terry capable? Did Terry do it?
Did I stay with a man
that possibly m*rder*d my child?
And it does raise a lot of questions.
The court rejected every single thing
that the State argued.
Basically saying Burnett was wrong in
not allowing a hearing based on the DNA.
One, by one, by one.
Just no, no, no. Wrong, wrong, wrong.
Finally the Supreme Court
has ruled in our favor.
Uh, we could not be more excited.
It was unanimous.
This is huge for Arkansas.
The Supreme Court is...
Has ruled in our favor.
The State Supreme Court
is on our side.
Finally. We won. We won.
The mother of Stevie Branch,
one of the three 8-year-olds k*lled
in that m*rder,
joins us now on the phone.
What is your reaction to the ruling
by the Arkansas Supreme Court
that the K*llers
can have a new hearing?
My reaction to it is,
now with the DNA evidence and things
that doesn't point
to the three men convicted,
that lets me know for sure
they didn't lay a hand on my son.
They keep constantly
pushing the date of the hearing back.
First they told us
it was gonna be in June.
Then they told us
it was gonna be in October.
Now they've pushed it
all the way back to December.
The wake of the victory was probably
the most difficult
and frustrating time for Lorri of all.
"Dearest Lorri, you never, ever
need to apologize for how you are feeling."
I totally understand what you said,
and why you said it,
and I'm glad you felt
you could say it to me.
This situation is so very hard.
You and Damien
have been treading water for years
and the shore never seems
to get any closer.
"It's no wonder you feel like giving up."
After years and years of filing
and hear... You know, this and that
and never-ending bureaucracy,
it keeps going back and forth.
To go 16 or 17 years and finally
have what was a remarkable victory,
and not simply for the three,
but about the whole nature
of DNA testing in Arkansas.
And then say, "Well, when will this
actually lead to Damien being released?"
And the answer being,
you know, who knows?
"it took me a while to understand
what you must have learned long ago."
Nothing, and I mean nothing,
comes easily with this case.
The breakthroughs are small
and the obstacles never seem
to decrease in size.
Any small piece of progress
is clawed from unforgiving rock.
All we can do is keep going.
If we keep on pounding on the wall,
it will break, because it must break.
All things eventually break.
I would love to see photos of the 1920s
house in Garton when you have them.
It sounds wonderful.
"Sending much love to you always,
Fran."
You're so worn down,
you know, you might get something
like say a common cold,
and the next thing you know, you're
laying in bed sick for next six months.
Damien, you know, he's struggling
because of the health issues
he's facing in prison,
just not having adequate nutrition,
not being able to go into the sunlight.
You know, lack of vitamin D.
His eyesight is starting to dim.
Everything in your
body is just hurting and shut down.
Mm-hm. It made me
wanna be nicer to you.
It did!
Sometimes it appears to me that
the attitude of the players involved
in this case are:
"Let's sweep this under the rug,
let's hope it goes away."
No one wants to admit
they made a mistake.
What about the lawsuits
that are gonna follow?
And who cares about that issue?
Let's just do the right thing,
it's simple to do the right thing.
Something we had always planned on
doing was to try to get the State to agree:
"Let's just go right to the new trial,
because, of course,."
Damien and Jason and Jessie
are sitting in the cooler
"each time there's a delay.
Let's get to it."
So the defense decided
to approach the State and say:
"Hey, let's skip the evidentiary hearing
and just go straight to a new trial."
Two weeks ago yesterday, we
sent Patrick Benca, our local counsel,
in to have a lunch meeting with
Dustin McDaniel, the attorney general.
I've known Dustin from law school
and I knew he'd be approachable about it.
I wasn't sure whether he would
take it in consideration.
Matter of fact, during the lunch
he said to me, "That's a big ask."
Um, but I felt that he was listening
to everything that I had to say.
Much to our surprise, the
discussions progressed sort of away
from the
"agree to the new trial" idea to
is there a way to reach a practical
resolution of this case for everybody?
The Attorney General brought in.
Scott Ellington,
a circuit county prosecutor.
He came to Little Rock
with a bunch of his lawyers.
The defense attorneys have
maintained complete innocence
on behalf of the defendants
all this time.
I mean, I don't underestimate our ability
to have obtained convictions
in these cases.
But I wasn't looking forward
to having to go to trial in this case,
because of the deterioration
of evidence.
Memories lost.
You know, stories changed.
Every time there was a filing,
you know, there was a DNA...
Came out in the paper
that there's new DNA, new DNA.
I was not looking forward to that.
We didn't want to show weakness
in maintaining the judgment,
so one of our positions was
the State is not making an offer.
The State said they're guilty.
Our guys said they're innocent.
How do you bridge those two gaps?
There's only a couple
of options in between.
We started making our pitches.
We started making our pitch
for the Alford plea,
which we talked about
before going in.
It's not a perfect resolution.
It will be a guilty plea,
but it's a very, very rare
and unique kind of guilty plea
where you get to
maintain your innocence.
Prosecutors hardly ever allow this,
and judges have the right to say,
"We're not gonna accept it
because can't maintain your innocence
and plead guilty at the same time."
It kind of seems oxymoronic.
I'm... I guess I'm kind of a
"sh**t from the hip" guy to start with.
I kind of jumped on it real quick
and then the Attorney General and I
visited just briefly and he was like:
"Are you sure
that you want to agree to this?
Are you sure this is the right thing
for you, politically?"
Because he knows
I'm elected as a prosecutor.
And this could backfire.
We knew what we really needed to make
this deal, which is really only two points.
We needed it to be a deal
where the West Memphis Three
could maintain their innocence.
And we needed it to be a deal where they
got out of prison the day it was entered.
Not two years from now.
Not, "We'll consider you for parole."
Not 10 years more.
Enter the plea, maintain your innocence,
get out of jail.
This notice was released today out of
the Craighead County Circuit Court.
It's vague, saying that the court
will take up certain matters
pertaining to the West Memphis Three
case tomorrow.
It went to Damien first,
and Damien readily accepted it.
How you doing?
Then the deal went to Jessie.
Been a while.
It has been a while.
And Jessie accepted it.
We're almost home.
Which means by the time it got to Jason,
Jason had the full veto power.
If he said yes,
the deal would work for everybody.
If he said no, everybody was left
right where they were, in prison.
I come home, turn
the TV on, it's all over TV.
Rumor mill got started this afternoon,
and it's all over the place,
but I think everything's gonna
work out fine in the morning.
His position was, "I,
Jason, would rather stay in jail",
and fight this
with my last dying breath
"until somebody recognizes
I am 100 percent innocent."
There are reports that at least
two of the infamous West Memphis Three
could be released from prison.
And I told him
that I wanted three or nothing.
I didn't sleep much.
I think the last time I looked at the clock
it was 4:00 this morning.
Mixed emotions,
all type of things, so...
What do you think is going to happen?
Are you pretty sure, are you not sure,
you doubtful this would happen?
I'm not sure, I'm doubtful,
I don't know.
I'm just a pawn in this,
just like they are.
They've been a pawn
in this the whole time.
Now, I have to say, because I've been in
the Arkansas Department of Correction,
I understand
where they're coming from.
If I had to roll the dice
for my freedom
or get out today
by copping to a lesser plea,
I would probably take the plea
to get out of prison.
But then I'm stuck the rest
of my life with the stigma,
while the real k*ller walks free.
Who do you believe.
This is notjustice! Is the real k*ller?
No comment.
No comment?
Do you feel any relief? No.
None?
I gotta go.
What are you gonna do next, Terry?
Hey, hey, Terry,
just for a second...
There's the baby-k*ller. Talk to him.
This is a free world.
I can say what I want.
Freedom of speech,
First Amendment right.
I contacted the other attorneys,
asking them what was up.
If they knew anything
that was going on.
They really indicated
that they didn't know.
Jason was quite resolute
and not agreeing
to taking the Alford plea.
And, I mean, really that's about
the biggest illustration of his innocence
that you could ever imagine.
But this was really coming to a head,
and we didn't know how long
this offer was gonna be on the table.
And it was there for the taking.
We were trying to figure out
alternate ways to get in touch with him.
Somebody who cares about him
and loves him needs to be talking to him.
We need to get Holly.
It's busy.
I'm just gonna keep dialing
over and over.
You know, over the years
we've just grown to be...
I mean, I'm closer to Jason Baldwin
than I am to many people
that I have known my entire life.
Everybody just cannot believe
that he would choose to stay in prison
when he can walk out,
no matter what the reasons are.
I got a call from Lorri.
She said, "I'm gonna ask
Eddie Vedder to call you."
I was trying to explain to Jason,
look, anyone's gonna have to understand
locally and globally,
State of Arkansas is not gonna let go
of three convicted child murderers
based on time served.
It's implied that they don't have enough.
They don't have enough to keep them in.
They don't have enough to win a trial.
I was able to get a call in to the
prison to have Jason give me a call.
He said, "This isn't fair."
I don't wanna concede
anything to the State."
He did not wanna talk about it,
and he didn't call back.
And I was devaStated.
I believed in his decision,
and I didn't wanna question it.
I would never ask another man
to compromise his ideals.
But it was so close to freedom.
It was unbearable.
Not hearing from him
and not knowing what he was thinking
was unbearable.
Jason Baldwin is 16 years old.
He's been in jail for months.
And he's about to enter a trial
where prosecutors are going to ask
for the death sentence.
He's offered two deals in secret
if he would testify
that Echols had done the k*lling.
He tells the prosecutors,
"No, that would be a lie.
My mother raised me
better than that."
The 16-year-old refused,
not once, but twice.
At 16 years old, it
never even crossed his mind
to throw somebody
under the bus to save his own skin.
So Monday night,
I get this call from him.
He says, "Neither option is really fair."
I said to him, "if you wanted to do
something you didn't feel right about",
you could have done that
18 years ago and gone free."
And he said,
"Yeah, but the difference is, this time
I can set Damien free
by my decision."
I mean, that was his best friend,
you know.
This deal sucks,
but we want their freedom.
All rise.
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
Be seated, those of you who can.
We are still waiting
to find out...
I am David Laser, Circuit Judge of
Division 9, the Second Judicial District.
Continue today for this 11:00 hearing
on the West Memphis Three.
Will they be set free today?
Answer still unknown but,
of course, we will continue...
Mr. Echols,
Mr. Baldwin, Mr. Misskelley,
if you would stand, please,
and face the court.
Spend a lot of time trying to explain it.
They had a private, closed-door hearing...
Mr. Echols, how do you
wish to plead in this case?
Your Honor,
I am innocent of these charges,
but I'm entering an Alford guilty plea
today based on advice of my council.
And my understanding
that it's in my best interest to do so
given the entire record of the case.
Same as relates to you, Mr. Misskelley.
How do you wish to plead?
I am pleading guilty under North Carolina
v. Alford in the Arkansas rules.
Although I am innocent.
This is...
And this plea is in my best interest.
Everybody just be patient.
We're waiting too, like everyone else.
Just gotta stay in place.
Mr. Baldwin, how do you
choose to plead in this case?
Your Honor, first of all
I am innocent of murdering.
Christopher Byers,
Michael Moore and Steven Branch.
However, after serving 18 years
in the penitentiary for such,
I agree that it's in the State's
best interest, as well as my own,
that based upon
North Carolina v. Alford
that I plead guilty
for first-degree m*rder for those crimes.
All right.
The court finds that
there is a factual basis for the plea,
that the pleas are voluntary and will be
accepted and received by the court.
I'm aware of the controversy
that's existed.
I'm aware of the involvement
of the people in this case.
I don't think it'll make the pain go away
to the victims' families.
I don't think it will take away a minute
of the 18 years
that these three young men served
in the Arkansas Department
of Corrections.
What I've just described
is tragedy on all sides.
And I commend people in the case
that have assisted towards the end
of seeing that justice is served
to the best that we can do.
The tremendous judge.
Um... He didn't have to say the things
that he did at the end.
Sometimes outside help
is in fact a big help,
and for those of you who have been
a participant in that regard
that are here, I commend you
personally and publicly
for having done that.
It was great to see a crowd
of people outside of the courthouse,
you know, 18 years ago
were screaming for blood.
And Damien, Jessie and Jason
walked outwith their hands held high
and the crowd is cheering
and supporting them.
Some are happy, some are angry
and some are perplexed,
and that's the case at the end of
every trial, and this one is no different.
First of all, I understand
that nobody in that room
wanted to hear from me, particularly.
I needed to be heard by my voters,
and I needed to offer
some explanation.
I'll tell you, let me tell you this.
This judge was most likely
going to grant a new trial.
As far as gathering up evidence,
I hadn't gotten there yet.
I've not reviewed reams and reams
and volumes and boxes and boxes,
but the evidence I've seen,
I believe these guys are guilty.
I know they pled guilty.
With their entry of a plea of guilty,
we have removed the question
of them filing a civil law suit
against the State
that could result
in many millions of dollars.
I mean,
because you have three individuals
times 18 years is 54,
I mean, so, 60ish?
I have spoken with members
of victims' families
and I can tell you that they are still
suffering the loss of the little boys.
We put to rest a question
for these families
of the little boys that were k*lled.
These three individuals
pled guilty to the m*rder
of those three little boys that day.
That put that matter to rest.
Period. End of sentence.
Heh. I don't even know where to begin.
I guess we eat, right?
I was dead-set against this, like a mule.
And I am not moving an inch.
I was just trapped up in it,
just by myself.
You reminded me that I'm not by myself
and I gotta think of everybody.
I have absolutely no idea
what I'm doing.
I'm just enjoying
the moment, right?
I think that's cheese.
You think it's what?
There's cheese in there.
Yeah. Cheese. Have you had cheese?
Yeah, but not in a salad.
All right, I'm done with the salad.
Okay, let's move on.
And it's not just this w*r
between one person and the State.
It is everybody involved, you know,
and it was, like, how could I forget?
Mom! Ha-ha-ha!
I still feel like it's a dream.
I just talked to you Monday
and you didn't tell me nothing.
I wanted to. Free man.
It's my suitcase. Check it out, pretty cool.
I like that.
I called him yesterday and said, "I got
a little suitcase and it's all packed."
And he said,
"I've never had a suitcase before."
It's these things.
Gosh, I love you so much.
I love you too.
Every time I turn around,
you wanna talk to me.
Look, every time I turn around.
It's great. It's a great feeling.
I'm used to the guards
being around me all the time.
Every now and then,
I turn around, make sure,
you know, damn, is this really real?
Hey, man. How you doing, man?
It's a blessing, you know, to
be here with my family and friends.
Last time I seen them,
we was all kids and everything.
And here we are, grown up now.
That's really what
kept me going over the years.
When are you gonna
come to the house and say hi?
Prison is really hard.
You know, if I could stay out of prison,
I could go anywhere I want to, free man.
All I just got to do is, you know,
just stay out of trouble.
That's why I'm trying
to do things different in my life.
So I know I can do it.
I think we all had our mental image
of what this was gonna be at the end.
Which was three of these guys
walking out of the courtroom exonerated.
Everything I had in the prison,
I carried out in one small envelope.
Everything else,
when they told me I was leaving,
they said, "Pack up
whatever you wanna take."
I just threw it all in the garbage
and left it.
When he first left the
courthouse, he looked at me and said:
"It already feels like it's been such
a long time ago since I was in prison."
Within an hour of the time we
were out, it already felt that way.
And I think, in some ways,
maybe it's a little harder for Lorri
than it is for me because I've never had
a really solid foundation in my life.
When I was young, we were constantly
on the move, constantly on the go.
We never had a place that
we called home for long periods of time.
"Time to vamp up your wardrobe.
Fall is coming."
Yeah, we're gonna have
a early Halloween party
since we're gonna be gone
for October.
We're gonna do it
at the end of September.
Our time together now
is more gentle in a way.
What do you think about that stuff?
That fake spiderweb stuff?
I love it.
Think we should get it? Yeah.
When you're in prison
you get three hours a week,
so you feel very desperate
and rushed.
Like you're trying to wring
every second out of it that you can.
And it's like being out here
and being together 24 hours a day,
you just feel like you're able to relax
into each other a little more.
There's a bit of grief.
You leave people you love.
You don't know when
you're gonna see them again.
If you can ever go back
to that place.
Because we don't plan
on going back to Arkansas.
I don't look at the political aspirations,
the greed, the evil,
the cruelty or anything else.
Because for me, it's over.
For me, I'm ready to move on.
When you first asked me about the
letters, I got them out of storage,
and it felt so foreign to me.
Thank you. You too.
So then we talked
about burning them all.
We thought the best thing to do
is take all the letters.
Just burn them, so they never...
No one will ever read them.
There's so many things,
it's so personal.
I happened to pull one out
that was about six months
into when we were writing to each other
and I thought, "That's not so bad."
And there are elements of it that
remind me of how we talk today, so...
"My dearest Lorri,
I love the letter I got from you today,"
the one about us changing.
You were right,
we should be looking forward, not back.
You give me the strength
to face anything,
but I also know
that not everyone is like you.
"If they were... If they were,
then everyone would be in love."
Right, well. "I love the way
Master and Margarita ends."
The way they get to spend
eternity together, alone.
"That they are granted peace."
"And you are left to wonder
what adventures they'll have next."
♪ And don't you worry
♪ I believe your story
♪ You were put away
For something you didn't do
"That's the way I imagine you
and I, just saying goodbye to everyone"
and beginning our own journey
"to places that neither of us
have ever known before."
♪ When I come to see you a'
♪ What will I bring? a'
♪ The wisdom of a poet r
♪ The color of a dream r
♪ And I leave with three roses 4'
♪ Made from a magazine ♪
♪ More beautiful to me
Than any flower in the spring a'
♪ And the feel of summer a'
♪ Turn into fall a'
♪ Anything made of paper
That's all S
♪ That's all a'
♪ That's all a'
♪ In the shadows of religion 4'
♪ Some think we find the truth a'
♪ But innocence is stricken 4'
♪ Without an ounce of proof I
♪ While the wheels of injustice a'
♪ Can turn mighty fast a'
♪ Another blood moon of October a'
♪ Will silently pass f
♪ With words of love a'
r In a telephone call a'
♪ And anything made of paper
That's all S
What's all I
♪ That's all a'
♪ Anything made of paper
That's all S
♪ In the inside world
Where bitterness grows a'
♪ Your heart has found the passion
To see what's in your soul a'
♪ And late at night
On an angel's wing f
♪ You hold on till tomorrow
To see what it brings I
♪ Any news
No matter how small a'
♪ And anything made of paper
That's all S
♪ That's all a'
♪ That's all a'
♪ Anything made of paper
That's all S
♪ In the inside world
Where bitterness grows a'
♪ Your heart has found the passion
To see what's in your soul a'
♪ And late at night
On an angel's wing f
♪ You hold on till tomorrow
To see what it brings I
♪ Any news
No matter how small a'
♪ And anything made of paper
That's all S
♪ That's all a'
♪ That's all N'
West of Memphis (2012)
Moderator: Maskath3