Pray Away (2021)

[bunniefuu]

[rain pattering]

[rain pattering intensifies]

[windshield wipers swishing]

- [door shuts]
- [door handle clicks]

Hey, ma'am?

- Do you need any prayer today?
- [woman] No, thanks.

Okay, you have a good day.

[woman] You too.

[women chattering]

Hey, y'all, I was gonna ask,
do y'all need any prayer tonight?

I'm just out here praying for people,
and I share my testimony with people

and pray with them.

This is me.

I lived transgender before,

and I left everything
to follow Jesus Christ.

- Are you believers?
- [women] Yes.

So, Father God,
I just thank you for my sisters tonight,

Lord, that I met,
fellow believers in you, Jesus.

And I just bless them,
in Jesus Christs' name I pray. Amen.

[women] Amen.

This was me. I lived transgender.
dr*gs, alcohol, and h*m*.

I was really deep in sin,
and I left everything to follow the Lord

'cause He's an amazing,
powerful God, and He loves us.

And so I just... I share my journey
with other people to encourage them.

You know,
we can always use prayer every day.

[young man] Bless them, Father,
in Jesus Christs' name,

to follow you and to know you, Lord.
Let us know you. Amen.

- [woman ] Amen.
- I lived as a woman.

I left everything to follow Jesus Christ.

Let her never forget, Father,
how important and loved she is to you.

In Jesus Christs' name. Amen.

I was promiscuous with a lot of men,
prostituted my body.

I share the Gospel
and what happened in my life,

and how God set me free from this identity
'cause I was trying to become a woman.

I'm not a woman. I'm a man.

Father, I just thank you
for everything you've done.

By the Father, by the Son, Jesus,
and by you, Holy Spirit.

In Jesus Christs' name. Amen.

[laptop clicks]

[keys tapping]

[Jeffrey] So, this would have been me.

It says, "in bondage" and "set free."

The biggest things
that Jesus is to me is truth.

When you know the truth,
the truth sets you free.

I believe the Bible,

that these people will not inherit
the Kingdom of God.

I do believe that people can change

and have a refreshing,
renewing over their whole sexuality.

The Holy Spirit can give you
new desires and wants.

Jesus can transform you.

[ethereal vocal music playing]

[music continues]

[indistinct chattering]

[assistant ] Take one, marker.

- [assistant ] Are you good with that?
- [director] Yeah.

[music fades]

[man] We were the leaders
of the ex-gay movement.

We believed that
there was something desperately wrong,

that there was
something pathological about it,

that it was not your normal state,

wasn't what God intended,

that something must have happened
to "make you gay."

We really believed

that gay people could be saved.

This is what the Bible says.

It says that some of you
were h*m*, right?

But you've changed. You've been washed.
You've been transformed.

We believed what we were doing
was the right thing,

to continue pursuing change,

and if you didn't want to be gay,
that there was a way out for you also.

We were doing
what we thought God wanted us to do.

[ethereal vocal music playing]

[music intensifies]

[music fades]

All right, who wants to do the eggs?
No, it goes in there.

- [girl] Oh.
- [utensil clatters]

- [cupboard creaks]
- [cutlery clinking]

I just need an egg and the yolk,

so you have to separate the white
from the yolk.

- How are you supposed to do that?
- [Yvette] Oh my gosh.

- [girls giggle]
- I have very little confidence right now.

Wow.

[both laugh]

[Yvette laughing]
And you broke the yolk already!

[girl laughing] Okay.

- [cameraperson] Is it possible to move?
- [director] Yes.

[director] Great. Are you good with that?

[cameraperson] Yeah.

- Is this mic working?
- [assistant] No, not really, so...

[interviewer] Then I'm just gonna
lean forward a little bit more.

You spent six years
as a practicing lesbian.

[chuckles] I like that word, "practicing."

What do you mean, "practicing?"
What are you trying to get perfect?

[both laugh]

"Practicing" lesbian means
that I was actually in the lifestyle

and not just struggling with the feelings.

So I was actually involved
in lesbian relationships.

[interviewer] Yvette, would you just talk
from your heart

to those that are trapped
in the lifestyle?

Well, I know that it is difficult.

It took me three years
just to overcome same-sex attractions.

And it was because I was surrounded
by people in the church

who really loved me.

But God really healing
the feminine within me

and showing me that the feminine
is something that he loves,

that it's something that He created.

He's the only one
who can touch those deep places.

[interviewer] That was wonderful.

[Yvette] I spent a lot of time thinking,
"How did I believe that?"

and "How was I involved in it
for so long?"

I didn't come into the church
until I was .

And the reason

I started going to church
and became a Christian

was I was looking for something.

That's absolutely spectacular.

[Yvette] I didn't really have
those carefree days

where you think nothing can touch you.

Death was always prevalent,

and it was right there.

- [traffic buzzing]
- [siren wailing]

- [indistinct chattering]
- [machine beeping regularly]

[Yvette] I had had friends die of AIDS
during the AIDS crisis.

My best friend Ed, his partner was also,

and sort of helped them
when they were having health problems.

And I was in my twenties,
and this is what was happening.

When you're just wondering
if the people that you love

are gonna be here the next day
and the day after that.

[dramatic music playing]

[man] I believe
that God does not judge people.

God judges sin.

And I do believe that AIDS,

generally caused and believed to be caused
by h*m* promiscuity,

is a violation of God's laws,
laws of nature and decency,

and as a result, we pay the price
when we violate the laws of God.

[Yvette] So to go into a church situation
that is very structured,

and the rules are very clear,

it's a relief,
and I... and that's exactly how I felt.

It was a relief.

[ethereal vocal music playing]

[music continues]

[man] I grew up
in a time when it was a crime,

a sickness,

and a sin to be gay.

I wanted desperately to change.

I had wanted to change
since I was a kid getting bullied for it.

Our church was a great big megachurch
that I was attending in Anaheim,

and they had support groups
for divorced people

and people that were struggling
with alcoholism or drug abuse,

and I thought, "How come
there's no group for people like me,

that have gay feelings?"

So, I got the idea of starting
a support group

within our own local church.

[indistinct chattering]

Everybody felt
that this was a wonderful relief,

that they didn't
have to struggle alone anymore.

They didn't have to pretend...

They didn't have to pretend
they were the only one.

But we really believed
that if you kept repeating it,

if you kept claiming
that God was changing you, that He would.

At that time, we thought
we were the only support group

like it in the country.

But then we began to hear that there were
other small ministries like ours

that were popping up kind of spontaneously
in different parts of the country.

And we thought, "Wouldn't it be cool
to get together these small ministries

and discuss together
what we were trying to do

and what should happen next?"

So we decided to get together
and form a conference in Anaheim in ,

and that's where
the organization Exodus was born.

[dramatic music playing]

[Michael]
And then letters started pouring in

from Christians
who had no place else to go

and suddenly were hearing
about this organization

that might be able to help them.

There were thousands of people
that were looking for a group like Exodus.

[ticking]

It was once unthinkable,

but today it happens
in households all over America.

A child comes to breakfast and says,
"Mom, Dad, I think I'm gay,

but I don't want to be."

Some parents are learning
about a Christian program called Exodus,

which claims to convert gays,

make them ex-gays
with a course of Bible study,

behavior modification,
and peer counseling.

John Paulk is vice president of Exodus,
which was founded years ago.

- Are you straight now?
- I am.

- You are?
- I am.

You're not a gay person
who fights with yourself every day?

No.

You're not a person
who fantasizes about men?

- No.
- Never?

I never would have gotten married

if I felt on the inside like a gay person.

[John narrating] It's funny
what to be known for,

but at one point, I really was
the most famous ex-gay person

in the world.

[crowd laughing]

I arose to national prominence

because I'm a very articulate person.

So, I'm articulate, I'm outgoing,

I was fearless, I stood out in front,

and I became a figurehead.

I was the visible person
for this movement.

[anchorwoman] The woman he married is
a former lesbian he met at Exodus,

and now they have a baby boy.

[John] There were many leaders,

but I was the visual aid
because I had this extreme story

of married to an ex-lesbian.

I mean, we were constantly barraged
to be on shows, and talk shows,

and this newspaper, and that news program,

- and on, and on, and on.
- [audience applauding]

[host] Meet John Paulk and Anne Edward.

At one time, they were both gay.

Now they are so in love with each other,
they're engaged to be married.

Both of you find God and say,
"I want to not be gay anymore"?

[John] Whether you're gay
or whatever you're into,

it doesn't change the fact God loves you,

but this was not
God's original intent for you.

[John narrating] I had become
the chairman of the board of Exodus.

My role was to get the message out

that h*m* was changeable.

I don't believe that change is possible.

I believe that h*m*,
just like heterosexuality,

is a gift from God.

[John] Would that be like saying
a child molester can't change,

or a wife-beater can't change?

Well, that's... Now wait a second.
Being gay is not being a child molester.

No, I... I'm not comparing it to that.
I'm saying it's a certain behavior.

There is behavior
that's connected with h*m*.

And we're just saying
that if you want to change,

there is a way to do it.

[audience applauding]

[anchorwoman] This Exodus group is one
of more than organizations

working with gays
who want to lead straight lives.

[Michael]
We believed that h*m*

is a psychological illness
that you needed treatment for.

Those psychological beliefs,

everybody now in the psychological,
psychiatric community would agree,

are outdated and completely wrong.

[Michael] But Exodus,
at its peak, was the largest organization

promoting reparative therapy
or conversion therapy.

I've been in Love In Action Program
for days.

My powerlessness over h*m*
and compulsive sexual behavior

has led me into masturbation,
mutual masturbation,

short-term and long-term
h*m* relationships...

[Michael] In conversion therapy,
the explanation for why you are gay

is that you must've been
traumatized as a child.

Either by direct abuse,

sexual molestation,
physical abuse by parents,

or by inadequate or toxic parenting.

If you can resolve those parenting issues,

then your innate heterosexuality
will emerge.

I feel restored and reconciled
with my relationship with my dad.

[sighs deeply]

[crying] 'Cause God has brought
a lot of healing.

[group] We love you, Glen.

I love you.

Very few of the leaders
had any kind of formal education

in psychology,
counseling, human sexuality.

They had no qualifications
to do what they were doing.

My name is Jeff Harwood,
and I've been in love...

[Michael] A lot of the people
that we were counseling had panic att*cks

and deep depression.

We had guys
that actually attempted overdose,

attempted su1c1de

because they felt guilty
that they couldn't change.

[indistinct praying]

I couldn't continue to pretend
that I was changing.

And I couldn't continue to pretend
the people I was "helping" were changing.

And I thought, "Okay, this is enough."

"I'm harming people."

But when I left in ,

Exodus kept growing.

[kids chattering in distance]

We'll take a lot of pictures together.

- It's mainly, like, candids of people.
- [Julie] Mm-hmm.

We do things
in a very slower pace, like, no rush.

We do this guided,
but then you do your own thing

for an intentional,

natural look.

Are we looking at the camera? [chuckles]

[photographer] Put your hand here.

- My hand?
- Like that.

[both laugh]

[giggling] I can't do it.

[Julie] Mmm.

- [Amanda] Our wedding website.
- [Julie] Seventy days, babe.

So, I was at an event,
and someone was like, "Where's your wife?"

And I was like, "Fiancée! But soon to be."

She's like, "You're not married?
We all thought you were married."

Yeah, I know.

People thought we were married
like a year ago.

I don't know how.
Maybe we just seem married?

Probably 'cause we're not social
and hang out with our cats all the time.

- It's the cats.
- Is that what it is?

- [Amanda] It's totally the cats. Yep.
- [both laugh]

[ringtone beeping]

[both energetically] Hi!

[Amanda] How are you?

I think I'm more gushy
about your wedding than you guys are.

The dress, I think, is stunning.

- [Julie] Oh!
- It is beautiful.

Do you have any family heirlooms,

or anything that reminds you
of a grandmother,

or something that's significant
in your family as well,

you can put into your bouquet,
or you can put into your hair?

Those are little moments
to carry your loved ones with you,

just as a sweetness to have them there.

[birds chirping]

[Julie] I was a happy kid.

[hopeful music playing]

[Julie] My family lived on three acres
of land with a pond in the back,

and I just got to run wild.

We went to Bible churches,
Baptist churches.

That was the only story
I knew about the world,

the fundamentalist Christian teaching
that said God created the world,

and God is a loving God.

And I found a lot of beauty in it, um,

the idea
that God created the fishing pond,

and the stars, and the wind, and all that,

and the idea that Jesus loved us enough
to want to be with us.

So I wanted to be Jesus' friend.

I wanted to be good.

Every single thing in our life
was conservative Christians.

My mom was listening to all
the real conservative Christian leaders

who said there's a secular agenda,
and they're coming for your children.

Can you imagine five-year-olds

with their little hands folded
in their laps

while their teacher talks to them

about adult perverse sexuality?

h*m* is moral perversion
and is always wrong,

period.

Every scriptural statement on the subject

is a statement of condemnation.

[Julie] The main messages I heard
about gay people were like,

"They're disgusting."

It was just always this sense of,
"The gays are really, really bad."

"Dirty, and scary, and bad."

[dramatic music playing]

[Julie] I came out
to my mom when I was ,

and my mom was frantic
that she has a potentially gay kid.

She took me to go meet
with this guy named Ricky Chelette.

I really didn't want to meet him.

It just felt awkward, and weird,

and unlikely to work.

[traffic buzzing]

[car horn honking]

Good morning. I am so honored
to be with you this morning.

[Julie] So we walk in,
and Ricky walks out,

and he's like, "You must be Julie."
And he shakes my hand.

He first asked me
a few introductory questions,

just to try to ease the tension.

[Ricky] I want to talk to you
about grace and truth. Grace and truth.

And I want to particularly talk to you
about grace and truth

because I think
we're in a cultural situation

in which grace and truth is hard to find,
especially truth.

[Julie]
And he has all these dry-erase markers.

He goes through this whole theory

of how people end up struggling
with same-sex attractions.

He draws it all out.

A little mom and a little dad
and a little kid's born,

and then, like,
he's doing all this, and so,

essentially, like, a boy becomes gay

because he has
a bad relationship with his dad,

and there's a sense of mystery
towards the same-sex parent,

and when they get to adolescence,
that becomes sexualized.

I asked him, like,
"What if you have a great relationship

with your same-sex parent, you know,
and you still feel gay?"

And he was like,
"That's where the wild card comes in."

And so he talks about sexual abuse.

"Well, what about people
who haven't been sexually abused?"

And then he's like, "Well,
a lot of times people forget it."

I had no reason to believe it was wrong.

I hadn't heard other theories
of how people end up gay.

And I'm , so I'm not like...

I literally know no science
around any of this.

And what he drew out, like,
made sense to me. I was like, "Yeah."

I know where we're going.
We're going toward Jesus.

Do you want to come walk with us

until we're both transformed
to look just like Him?

That's what I hope you'll do.

[Julie] Ricky was a little bit older,
wiser, really good with kids.

It was sort of like having a mentor

that seemed to take interest
in, like, my life.

I still didn't know at that point
if I could become straight.

Like, I didn't know,

but I felt like I could devote myself
to being a whole-hearted believer.

This is the path to be good.

And so,

I took it.

[rain pattering]

[Jeffrey] When I found Jesus,

I found for the first time
someone who really loved me.

From that period forward,

the Lord started putting on my heart,
"You need to start sharing your story."

[ethereal vocal music plays]

[people applauding]

[emcee] How's everybody doing?

- [audience] Good.
- [emcee] Good.

I'm very excited
and humbled to have, um, Jeffrey here.

Y'all are gonna love this brother.
He's amazing.

[speaker] Come on, boy!

Man, I love you. [chuckles]

Can we give our online audience
a welcome, too?

[audience applauding]

I'm trying so hard not to cry.

[speaker]
I'm just thankful for you, Jeffrey.

You are a gift from heaven,
for what God's doing in the Spirit.

That everywhere you plant your feet,

it is a sign
that God is about to release revival

on the gay community.

And I'm just thankful for you.

- [man] Aw...
- [audience applauds]

So Father, I thank you.

That he is a first fruit
of the work you're doing

for this generation.

Holy Spirit, I ask
that you would release fire,

anoint his tongue to share your heart,

like only He can.

And I ask that you would open ears,
break stereotypes,

break narratives, and reveal Jesus.

Amen.

- [all] Amen.
- [emcee] Love you, brother.

[Jeffrey chuckles]

[sighs]

When I grew up in high school
in the early s,

everything was shifting
in the nation with h*m*.

Will & Grace was the biggest show.

Every high school movie
had the gay best friend.

And that's what I put my identity in,
being h*m*.

- That was... That was my identity.
- [man] Wow.

[Jeffrey] And in the LGBTQ community,
that is their identity.

I'm gay. I'm lesbian. I'm transgender.

Why does it have
such a powerful stronghold over them?

Because it's the enemy trying
to make them think that's their identity.

- [woman] Yeah.
- No other group says things like that.

A lot of these schools are pushing that.
They want people to get on hormones

or start having the surgeries
and chopping up their body.

And so, you need to be very careful
where you send your children to school.

[man] That's true.

You need to find somewhere

they won't be counseling people
to chop up their body.

- [woman] Yes.
- [man] Yeah.

[Yvette] When I got into the church,
I just followed the rules.

This is what you do.

You read the Bible,
and you believe what the Bible says.

And then, it became a matter of,

well, the leaders are the special ones.

I have to perform
in order to be in this special group.

I have to perform
in order to be recognized

and affirmed the way that I want to be.

In the early days,

I spoke at a fundraising meeting
in Laguna Hills.

[hostess] I very much wanted
to have Yvette speak...

[Yvette] The house was packed,
which made me really nervous.

And I had prepared
for a long time for this

'cause I wanted it to be perfect.

[hostess] She is very articulate

on speaking
on the h*m* political agenda.

And that is why we asked,
let's videotape it

to possibly enable you to have a position

as a national spokesperson
on this, uh, subject.

So that's why Yvette's here.

What's happening in the political level,

they're trying to give
h*m* special rights.

We're not talking equal rights, here.

We're talking special rights,
giving them special minority status.

This is such a huge issue right now

that there's really no excuse
for not getting involved. And it could...

[Yvette] You could hear a pin drop.
People were riveted.

And then we did a Q and A afterwards

so people could ask whatever they wanted
and also see that I knew the topic well.

Well, thank you all for coming.
I wasn't expecting this many people.

[audience applauding]

[Yvette] A nd afterwards,
a woman sitting in the front row

asked me if I'd be willing
to relocate to Washington, D.C.

[suspenseful music playing]

[Yvette] So I get a phone call that said,
"Can you come for an interview

at Family Research Council?"

Family Research Council is one of the most
prominent Christian-right organizations

in the country.

They have a lot of political power.

[anchorman] FRC's experts are well-known
by the media

for their cutting-edge analysis

and quick response
to breaking news stories.

Voicing your values
to defend family, faith, and freedom.

[Yvette] The leadership there
were all straight, white men.

They were looking for a spokesperson

who had been gay.

And I was told, "You're gonna be great
because you're young,

you have a Hispanic last name,

and you don't look gay."

This is my business card.

Probably the only one I have left,
when I was Yvette Cantu, Policy Analyst.

[card thuds]

This was a press conference that we did,

and I had only been at FRC
for maybe two weeks, less than two weeks.

We're gonna take you now
to the National Press Club.

We have a camera this morning

at a news conference
to be held by the Family Research Council.

Today, we're here to talk about
what some major world religions

have to say about h*m*.

[Yvette] The conservative Christian lobby
always needs something

they can really get
their constituents riled up about

and willing to give money

and willing to vote.

What can really get people riled up?

h*m*.

[cheering]

[Yvette] The general feeling was
that gay rights were inevitable.

We looked at it like, this is going
to destroy the family as we know it.

And that it would erode
the rights of Christians.

What I do at Family Research Council

is opposing
an aggressive h*m* agenda,

which is trying to destroy marriage,

which is trying
to bring about gay adoption.

A child needs a mother and a father.

Let me just interject one thing.

I just feel I need to say something
about my opponent's organization.

It doesn't matter if it's gay families,
civil rights, employment, housing.

They have a fundamental anti-gay agenda.

I, I personally came out
of the h*m* lifestyle

that I was in for six years.

I have dead gay male friends
who have d*ed of AIDS.

My point in all this is to show

that it is a dangerous,
destructive lifestyle,

and people can leave it.

I don't want to get rid of these
because I want to remember.

I don't want to forget.
Like, this is part of my life.

This is part of what I did,

but it's hard to look back.

[sighs deeply, huffs]

[traffic buzzing softly]

[Julie]
I started at Living Hope when I was ,

and I didn't move away
from Living Hope till I was .

I was doing
a weekly counseling session with Ricky,

a weekly Living Hope meeting,
we just called it "group,"

and then I would usually have lunch
at Ricky's house on Sunday afternoon.

So, like, more days than not,
I was at Living Hope stuff.

My whole entire life was structured
around not being gay.

There was a high population
of youth who were at Living Hope.

It was at least people
that were cycling through.

[somber music playing]

We weren't allowed to have
outside contact with each other.

So we weren't allowed
to be friends on Facebook

or to know each other's last names.

The reason that we couldn't share
any identifying information

was because they were worried

we would all meet up
and have sex with each other.

We were only allowed to talk
when we were, like, supervised.

[railroad crossing bell dinging]

[Julie] Ricky would say

a big part of it's gonna be,
like, your spiritual walk,

spending time reading the Bible,
and praying,

and, um, giving up masturbation.
Masturbation was a big deal.

Giving up masturbation,
definitely giving up p*rn.

It was decided between my mom and Ricky

that I was gonna quit softball
so I wouldn't become gay,

and I had to go to a Christian college
so I wouldn't become a lesbian.

If you were to say, like,

"What does Julie need to do
to become straight?"

It was a lot.

- [indistinct chattering]
- [dramatic music playing]

[Randy] One of the things
that Exodus International was known for

was our annual conference,

where people could go and learn more

about the whole journey
of overcoming same-sex attractions

and to have fellowship with other people
who believed similarly.

We would have lots of workshops,

and they would range in topics
from family dynamics,

to helping men embrace their masculinity,

or women to rejoice in their femininity.

[speaker] ...focus on , which talks about,
"Seek ye first the Kingdom of God."

A mistake they make is they start thinking
about the rest of their lives.

They're drawn into lesbianism
probably because

she wants to protect
against further hurt from a man.

She needs a lot of healing

before she could ever
be open to a relationship with a man.

[indistinct chattering]

[Julie] I went
to my first Exodus conference

when I was years old.

Ricky took a big group of people
from Living Hope every single year.

It was the first time I met
a bunch of really, really cool people

who were devoted to this process.

I was supposed to, like,
embrace my femininity.

They taught us to wear makeup,

and the guys would go play football.

[spectators whooping, applauding]

[Julie] They would say,

"It's not that we think
football's gonna make you straight,

but it will give you another way
of connecting with the guys."

"And makeup's gonna give you
another way of connecting with the girls

and your femininity."

That is a part of shifting things in here
that's gonna shift your attractions.

[speaker] Hopefully you are beginning
to see some of the root causes

that can affect your sexuality
and your identity, and...

[Julie] You're still doing Bible studies
and small groups and learning things.

But you also stay up
till two in the morning,

talking, and laughing, and telling jokes.

I remember especially the late-night times
when all the leaders were in bed,

and we just got to be
our little q*eer selves, and it was,

in many ways, like,
one of the few safe places

in our lives,
and I know that sounds really crazy

'cause it was
an Exodus International conference,

but at that time, that was
what belonging looked like for us.

A lot of times, people that struggle
with this always feel so alone,

struggle with same-sex attraction,
always feel so alone.

It's great to see others
who've been in the same shoes.

[interviewer] And what do you hope
to come out of this week?

A stronger person, um,

more knowledgeable
in areas I still don't really get,

and I might never get,
but, um, just to have more courage

to stand up and stuff.

[dramatic music playing]

[Randy] Is this on?

I wanna invite the prayer team up.
Come on up, guys.

A lot of you may be feeling pressure.

You may be feeling
like you're in darkness.

But you sense
that there is a hand reaching towards you.

And you want that hand to grasp you,
the hand of the Lord, to pull you out,

to reveal the splendor
of what He's created you to be.

Brothers and sisters,
in Jesus' name, step forward,

take your rightful place
in the body of Christ.

Come forward and receive prayer.
Come forward and make your declaration,

that I will not go back to the darkness.

[Julie] There were several speakers
throughout that week,

big ex-gay names.

And they told these stories
of this big conversion to Jesus,

and realizing God loved them,
realizing they "didn't have to be gay,"

was how they would frame it.

There were really compelling stories.

And so I remember feeling like,

I wanna be like them. Like, I wanna be

cool, and happy, and loved by God.

[soft piano music playing]

[music stops]

You may have seen John
and Anne Paulk on the cover of Newsweek.

Both former h*m*,
now married to each other.

But are there others like them?

I was active in the gay community
for years.

I was in it for six years,

then struggled for five years
before finding true freedom.

It was years for me.

Four for me,
but we both walked away from it.

[John] The whole Christian church
is based on being married,

being a family man,

and having children.

I had a goal when I went to Exodus,

was to get married and be a father.

That wasn't just something
I hoped someday would happen.

It was a goal I pursued with a vengeance.

Now, how do you two get together?

[chuckles] We were not friends at first,

because we were still in the middle
of our own gender identity confusion.

But slowly we became friends,

and based out of a friendship,
we fell in love.

I accepted Jesus as my savior

and, uh,
and then read what the Bible had to say.

At that point,
things started to change in my life.

[John] We were taught,
"You'll become friends with a woman,

you will feel safe with her,

and hopefully a sexual attraction
will grow on top of that."

They would say, "You don't have
to be attracted to all women."

"You only have to be attracted to one."

"Just one, 'cause that's
the one you'll fall in love with,

and that's the one you're going to marry."

"Just one."

[partner] How do you undo the end?

Okay, so, you gotta do it
with a different Kn*fe.

You're using a big Kn*fe.

Use a small one and just make a little V.

[Kn*fe clatters]

That takes it out. Okay?

[bangs loudly]

Sorry, baby.

- [partner] That's kind of cool.
- I know.

See, I'm gonna teach you
about how to do some of this fancy stuff.

[Kn*fe chopping, scraping]

[rake scraping]

[John] So here we were.

My wife wore
these beautiful Talbots suits,

and wore makeup,

and looked very elegant.

And we had children,
and the children were on TV with us.

In some ways, I didn't see myself
as a gay person anymore.

Because to me, to be gay
would mean I was having sex,

I was going to gay bars,
I associated with gay people.

I based being gay on behavior.

It was the behavior that made you gay,
not your feelings.

But my feelings were very much gay.

I've had a successful marriage
for ten years,

have a very fulfilling emotional
and sexual relationship with my wife,

have fathered two sons,
so something has changed.

[audience laughing]

[John narrating] If I had said,

"Well, of course I'm tempted
by h*m*,"

that would have been honest.

However,
I didn't feel like I could be honest,

because I'm not just sitting here
representing myself.

I am representing a whole movement.

And if I say,
"Well, I'm still tempted by it,"

what does that say to someone?

[director]
Do you feel like you were lying?

I did lie.

I... See, I can say that now with no...
w-with... with...

Well, with shame and embarrassment.

My mother came
from a very domineering home...

[John narrating] I realized
that my dishonesty hurt people.

Because I was dishonest,
it caused people in the audience,

people that were struggling
with h*m* or had gay feelings,

to feel like,
"There must be something wrong with me

'cause I'm not like him."

And, "He doesn't...
He's not tempted anymore."

"So if I'm tempted,
I must be broken and damaged."

[audience applauding]

[applause fading]

[dog barking]

[Jeffrey] My story's just one of many.

So I wanted people
that have similar stories to mine

to be able to share.

That's what the Freedom March gave them,
a platform to share.

Because mainstream media
doesn't share our types of stories.

That's why I started Freedom March,
is to give them a voice.

This has only been going for six months.

That says , follows,

about , more than I even thought.
[chuckles]

There's just so many.

[cell phone ringing]

[Jeffrey] Hello?

[female voice] Oh, hi, Jeffrey!

I stumbled across your Facebook.

I started following your pages
'cause it was just so hopeful to me

to hear about your story
and what happened to you.

[quivering] And what I hope happens
to my son, you know?

Wanna go ahead and tell me
a little bit of what's been going on?

So we have a -year-old son.

He said, "I'm a transgender girl."

And I looked at him, and I said,

"You're a boy."

And he's been gone
for about six months now.

And it's been really hard.

I miss him so much.

But he thinks that I'm rejecting him
because I won't call him my daughter.

How can I agree with that

when, in my conscience,
I believe that's a lie?

Well, I think he knows you love him.

- He just wants you...
- Yeah, he does.

He wants you to do it
the way he wants you to do it. [chuckles]

- Exactly! Exactly.
- And... And sometimes...

If someone is...

If a child is going out on the road,

a parent's not going to let
a semi-truck come and hit them.

If they have to yank them up,
if they have to go grab them,

they're gonna get them out of the road.
And that's how... what you're trying to do.

That's right. That's confirmation to me.
I appreciate that.

[Jeffrey] It's a strong spirit that wants
to force you to call him a woman,

and he's not. It wants you to bow down,

and you're gonna say yes,
and you have to agree with what it says.

- Don't do that.
- That's what it feels like. Exactly.

I do believe, um,

that you have to stand in faith with this.

Okay.

[silence]

[Julie] I've been working on a book
for the last year,

trying to make sense of my experience

and writing everything that happened.

[train horn blaring]

[Julie] When I was in Living Hope,
every week we would meet in Ricky's office

to talk about all this deep,
intense sexual, emotional baggage

in this one private counseling setting.

It was kind of like
a normal therapy appointment in many ways

where you sit down
and talk about your week

and what's going on,
and then you start getting deeper

into the stuff
that's really bothering you.

But there was
a little more of a confessional element.

I felt like I had
to tell Ricky everything,

every sexual attraction,
or feeling, or crush that I might have.

I felt the need to report
if I had a lesbian boss,

or lesbian customers that came in
at the restaurant where I worked.

Let's say I had, like,
acted out sexually with somebody else.

I would've definitely needed
to have confessed that

and told all the circumstances around it,

when we first started talking,
when we texted,

when we decided we were gonna
do something, when we met up,

why I hadn't cut off contact,

what was going on in my life
outside of it that made me turn to that.

[crow caws]

[Julie] Everything where I felt like
I was falling short

of what I was supposed to be,

I felt like I had to confess that
and work through it.

I'll go back and read old journal entries,

and it's all, "God forgive me
for having such evil flesh."

"And the only hope for me
is that God would save me from myself."

I was a teenager,
and I was a really good teenager.

I just thought I was so bad.

[indistinct voice speaking]

- [gong echoes]
- [audience applauding]

[moderator] It's my great privilege
and honor to introduce our next speaker.

He's a psychologist.

He is really like a maverick
in the mental health community.

He's a renegade.

Because the mental health community
believes that to receive help

for unwanted same-sex attractions,
that should not be allowed.

And he doesn't care what they say.

He's been treating men
for unwanted same-sex attractions

for years.

[audience applauding]

I remember years ago
when I first started this work,

um, the guy with the h*m* problem
would come in,

and they begin to see
that the h*m* image

is really a defense
against that inner core emptiness.

[Michael] People may wrongly assume
that the whole ex-gay movement

is strictly a religious thing,

but alongside the formation of Exodus

were this group
of psychologists and therapists

who had made their livings

and their careers
trying to cure gay people.

It's because things happen to you...

[Michael] It was awful pseudo-psychology.

What they were saying was not based
on any good science,

but Exodus was looking
for some sort of respectability.

"It's not just us who believe this."

"It's actual therapists
and psychiatrists who also know

that what we're saying is true."

[anchorwoman] Dr. Joseph Nicolosi is part
of an organization of therapists

working with gays
who want to lead straight lives.

[Randy] There was
a symbiotic relationship between

our need for credibility,

and then of course,
the therapists who get clients.

[indistinct chattering]

[Randy] Our networks were infused

with their books,

with their teachings,
with their therapeutic approach.

This sounds awful, but it was a mutually...

It was a mutually beneficial
business arrangement.

[sniffles, sobbing]

[Nicolosi]
You're holding back. Talk to me.

I want to know what you're feeling.

[sniffles]

[sighs]

I'm just thinking
about this person that's so broken.

[sniffs]

- [exhales]
- Yourself?

- Myself.
- So broken?

You feel broken?

[whispers] Yeah.

How does it feel,

feeling broken sitting right here
in front of me?

I'm looking at you. How does it feel
to be broken as I look at you?

[sniffling]

Hurtful?

Very sad?

Very sad to feel broken.

- Very sad to feel broken.
- [sniffs]

Can you feel
my acceptance of you as broken?

- [sniffs]
- What's that feel like?

[sighs] Feels good.

That feels good.

I just wish I wasn't here at this time.

I mean, I wish I wasn't here
in my mind right now.

- Of course.
- Huh.

[exhales]

[crying] I feel like...
I just feel like a bad person.

I feel like...

- [sobbing]
- Mm-hmm.

This man,
what brought him into therapy was,

he was acting out with men
while he was married.

Since that time,

they have done very, very well,
and he has not acted out in a year

and... and tells me
he has no desire to act out,

h*m*.

[all] Lord God,
in the light of your glory,

we see the wrong we have done
and the truth we have denied.

Heal us of our sin, wash us in your mercy,

and feed us with your grace

so that we may follow Your way
and live out the Good News of the Gospel.

Amen.

You have received that forgiveness,
and that grace, and that peace from God.

We're gonna take a moment
to share that peace with one another.

[indistinct chattering]

Good morning!

What's your name? I'm Julie.

[Julie] From the time that I was ,

Ricky was saying,
"You're gonna be the next big thing."

He had a big hope for me
that I was gonna carry the mantle.

And so they put me up
as a poster child when I was really young.

People would come to me
with these visions of, like,

"I see a stadium of , people,

and you're just preaching the Gospel
and a message of hope and healing."

It was definitely
a big part of my involvement

at Living Hope and Exodus,

was this idea that I was called
to be the next big leader.

Please give a very warm welcome
to my friend, Julie Rodgers.

[audience applauding, whooping]

Oh, I'm okay.

I came home one day,

and I told my mom that I was a lesbian,
and that I was sick of hiding it from her.

Well, she freaked out,

and, uh, she somehow got in touch
with Ricky Chelette

from Living Hope Ministries.
Shout out, Living Hope!

[audience whoops]

That's my people. He was actually, um...

[Julie narrating] Ricky had told
Exodus leadership

that I should be speaking,

and I probably spoke for them
at eight to ten different conferences.

[Julie on stage] So I'd decided,
by senior year high school,

I was gonna give my life to the Lord
and follow him with all of my heart.

[Julie narrating] I had
a really bad experience

when I was in college,
involving sexual as*ault.

And the people in Living Hope
were the only people I told about it.

I don't think they knew
quite what to do with it.

But what happened was, very quickly after,

within the next year, um,

Ricky wanted me
to incorporate that into my testimony.

I decided I didn't want to share that,

and I went with Ricky somewhere
and, like, gave my testimony beforehand.

I decided I didn't wanna share
that detail

because I was like,
it just didn't feel right.

I don't feel comfortable about it.
This is something that's mine

that I need to work through more.

And on the way home that night, um,

he would always
kind of, like, give me pointers,

and he was like,
"You know, you did a really good job

sharing your testimony, um,

but I just really regret that you left out
the part about the r*pe."

And I was like,

"I didn't feel like talking about it."

And he was like, "I just think
it kind of removes some of the power

from your testimony."

And he actually, um,
ended up taking advantage of me,

sexually, that night

when we went back to his apartment,
he... he...

...essentially ra... raping me.

[Julie narrating]
I ended up telling the story,

but I remember feeling, like, so angry

that all of these really intimate
experiences of my life

were being orchestrated and put together
in a way that pushed in a narrative,

"Men are bad, and I hate men,

and because of abuse,
I have turned to women."

[Julie on stage] You let that happen?

I tried to believe men could be trusted,
and that happens?

I'm done with this!

[dramatic music plays]

[group sings in background]
♪ What eyes could look on ♪

♪ Your glorious face ♪

♪ Shining like the sun ♪

[Julie] Looking back, I definitely wish
I hadn't been exploited in that way,

and put up as a prop
at way too young of an age,

when I was really emotionally vulnerable.

Oh my gosh, look who it is!

Three of my favorite people.

[friend] How are you, boy?

[Jeffrey] Oh my gosh,
what took y'all so long?

- How are we doing?
- [indistinct chattering]

- [indistinct chattering]
- Hi, precious!

This is the church.

This is ecclesia. This is the church.

[lively indistinct chattering]

The article from yesterday
is, like, going through the roof.

People from all over the country
are clicking on it.

- That's amazing!
- Yes.

- Word's getting out there.
- Amen.

It's blowing up.

- Mmm! [laughs]
- Yes, I love it!

Hey, y'all. We're about to start worship.

[friend ] They're about to start worship.

[friend loudly]
Okay, everybody be quiet please!

Quiet.

While I was here in
was when the thought came to me,

"We need to have a march
for people who left LGBTQ lifestyles."

The Freedom March is
just all about y'all's stories.

It's not just about my story.
It's about celebrating all your stories.

Also, the Lord put on my heart to say,
"Be obedient in whatever He tells you."

When you step out in obedience once,
He'll trust you more and more and more,

and you will just continue to grow.
And a lot of times, it's the little things

He watches us on at home,
the little things.

Are you being obedient
with something He tells you little

and not just a big ministry thing?
It's just every day being obedient.

'Cause He said those
that love Him will obey Him.

[group murmurs]

[stomping]

[prayer leader] I want you guys
to understand what's happening.

This is the sound of unity.

This is the sound of a warrior,
and that means business.

[man] Yeah! Whoo!

[all sing] ♪ Hey-na-hey ♪

♪ Hey-na-hey-na-hey-na-hey ♪

♪ Hey-na-hey ♪

♪ Hey-na-hey ♪

♪ Hey-na-hey-na-hey-na-hey ♪

♪ I'm a warrior ♪

♪ I'm a warrior, I'm a warrior... ♪

[prayer leader] You prophesied
of this Freedom March.

- It belongs to you, Father.
- [group] Yes!

Right now, what's happening
is you are bringing your warriors

in formation!

[cheering]

- [feet stomping]
- ♪ Bring Your reformation ♪

♪ Bring Your reformation ♪

♪ Bring Your reformation ♪

♪ To this nation ♪

♪ The Lion, the Lion ♪

♪ The Lion of Judah ♪

♪ Is roaring, is roaring ♪

♪ Is roaring for me ♪

♪ The Lion, the Lion ♪

♪ The Lion of Judah ♪

♪ Is roaring, is roaring... ♪

[tense music playing]

[indistinct murmuring, praying]

[unsettling music continues]

[music fading]

I'm gonna read from the section
about a group gathering at Living Hope.

How old were you during this time?

I was when I started it,

and then this goes pretty much
like up through the end of college,

I would say.

"The first time I b*rned myself,

I was sitting on a curb
outside of the church

after a Living Hope meeting."

"As my cigarette b*rned low,
without giving it much thought,

I shoved the burning end of it
into my shoulder and listened

as the skin on my left arm sizzled."

"Shortly after that night,
I sat alone in my room,

lost in a whirlwind of fear,
agony, and self-loathing."

"That's when I remembered
the cigarette burn

and the wave of detachment
that washed through my body

the moment the fire seared my skin."

"After scanning my room for ment...
metal objects that would heat under fire,

I landed on a quarter."

"Clamping the quarter with tweezers,
I plunged it into the flame of a lighter,

my heart rate rising
as the coin heated up."

"I inhaled, flexed my left arm,
and pressed the quarter deep in my flesh

until the skin broke and the pain numbed."

"I repeated the process
at least times that afternoon,

searing straight lines into my shoulder,
each a few inches wide."

"For weeks, I engaged in a routine
of applying Neosporin to the wounds

every morning and evening."

"We were safe in those moments,
me and my body."

"I could roll up my shirt sleeve,
expose my wounds,

and be met
with tenderness and compassion."

"In the years that followed,
when the anguish became unbearable,

I would return to this routine,

burning straight lines into my shoulders
and tending to the wounds to self-soothe."

[sniffs]

"I've heard depression described
as anger turned inward."

"Perhaps that's what I was doing
in my dorm room all those years ago."

"I took the rage I felt about living
in a body that couldn't be submitted

into the kind of body
it was supposed to be,

a straight body,
a feminine body, a good Christian body,

and I lit it on fire."

- [whispers] I love you, babe.
- [whispers] I love you.

I'm sorry.

[Julie] Yeah, it's kind of intense.

[Amanda softly] Yeah, it is.

[traffic buzzing]

[car horn honking]

[footsteps tapping]

[indistinct chattering]

[John] Over the years,

it was increasingly harder
to keep my h*m*...

keeping the lid on it.

Primarily, it was
through use of p*rn,

which my wife would discover,
and it would very much trouble her.

I can understand why it would trouble her.

It was threatening.

It was disobedient.

It meant...
Did it mean I was reverting back?

I remember her turning to me
one day and saying,

"John, why can't you just obey?"

"Why can't you make the Godly decision?"

And I remember saying to her,

"I... I... don't know."

[somber music playing]

I don't know why it didn't go away.

I don't know how to make it go away.

It's getting worse.
The older I get, it's getting worse.

I found myself surrounded
by people who loved me,

my wife and my sons,

and I felt all alone.

I...

ached to be loved and to love a man.

And I had gotten to the point where

the root causes of all this

didn't matter anymore.

The right or wrong of this,
biblically, didn't matter anymore.

I thought, "If I don't go
on this journey to figure out who I am,

I will take my life."

I will take my life.

I was in Washington D.C. for meetings,

and I started drinking.

I got intoxicated,

and I went into a gay bar.

Someone came up to me
and recognized who I was.

I mean, really, what was I thinking?

There was a gay activist that was called.
He was outside the bar.

And he took a photograph of me
with my hand in front of my face

and me running down the street.

[indistinct arguing]

[cars whizzing]

[indistinct voices shouting]

[Yvette] It was a Monday morning.

And I got into my office,
and I knew that John was there.

He was a friend of mine.

So he comes into my office,

and I thought
we would just chat and catch up.

And he was shaking. He sat on my chair.
He barely looked at me.

I knew this was
gonna come out immediately, so I lied.

I said I didn't know it was a gay bar,

and I had gone
in there to use the bathroom.

Well, any person with half
a brain realized, "Come on, John."

He knew it was much bigger
than what he was telling us.

And I felt so bad for him

because he was leaning over
in the chair with his cup of coffee,

which I'll never forget, and saying,

"I hope I didn't hurt the movement."

And that's what he kept saying,
"I hope I didn't hurt the movement."

I was so...

like, "What in the world?"

And not within five minutes,
the phone started ringing off the wall.

Everybody just thought
John was amazing, that he hung the moon.

He was successful.
He was eloquent. He had a great testimony.

And just like any prominent,
charismatic leader,

who doesn't live up
to their audience's ideals,

when he was busted
running from the gay bar,

it sent everybody into a shock.

[dramatic music playing]

[John] My wife had had enough.

She filed legal separation papers.

She divorced me.

I had never been honest a day in my life.

It was lie,
after lie, after lie, after lie.

- [traffic buzzing]
- [horn honking]

When John left the movement,
it was very memorable

because of his impact
on the movement as a whole, um,

but as far as the functioning of Exodus,
it continued unhindered.

Um, yes, my name is Randy Thomas.

I'm the executive vice president
for Exodus.

We have almost member agencies
in Canada and the United States.

[Randy narrating] Exodus started getting
more political in .

We started traveling to D.C.
to participate in meetings and events

with religious-right leaders
and power brokers.

They knew that they had
a problem humanizing the issues.

And we were there
to help them fix that problem.

They couldn't say,

"Our views are healthier
than gay... LGBTQ views,"

but they can.

- [dramatic music playing]
- [crowd cheering, applauding]

[Randy] There was a huge push

to do everything that we could
while Bush was in office

and both houses of Congress
were Republican-controlled

to stave off LGBTQ rights

as much as possible, and maybe forever.

Marriage between a man and a woman
is the ideal,

and the job of the president
is to drive policy toward the ideal.

[crowd cheering]

[anchorwoman] Just after midnight,

thousands celebrated what was
once just a dream in Massachusetts.

[Randy] The most important investment
Exodus made into politics

was over the marriage battle.

That was so important to us

because we were promoting
an idealized version of life.

Gay marriage felt
like an existential thr*at

against our idealized goals
for people in our ministries.

They were seeing
the culture say it's healthy and good

to marry the person
that you're truly attracted to and love.

Well, we had to counter that message.

You wanna know why I fight so hard
for the marriage issue?

Because marriage transcends
what we understand of it

and bears the image of God.

[anchorman] Same-sex couples have been
getting legally married in California,

but the ceremonies will stop
if Proposition passes,

amending California's constitution

so it defines marriage
as only between one man

and one woman.

I started working for Exodus
in the summer of ,

so right before the elections.

[audience whooping, applauding]

[Yvette] And I went to work
on the Prop campaign immediately.

I was invited to this event,

and they had cameras there

so that people in churches all across

the state of California could watch
this event that we're putting on.

I don't mean to be crass,
but men and women's body parts

fit together to become a single organism...

- [guests laugh]
- [applause]

...for...

[guests chuckles, speak indistinctly]

...for the purpose of creating children.

If sexual orientation

or sexual attractions were the basis
upon which we were allowed to marry,

then pedophiles would have to be allowed
to marry six-, seven-, eight-year-olds.

Mothers and sons,

sisters and brothers, any...
any combination would have to be allowed.

[Yvette narrating] A big part
of the message

was the slippery slope argument.

Okay, so you're saying
two women or two men now,

but then what's it gonna become?

It's just knowing
the fears that people have.

What is it that I can say
that is really going to scare them,

if they're on the fence?

And a lot of people were on the fence

and just sort of ambivalent
one way or the other, and you think,

"Oh well, you know, who cares
how this is gonna affect me?"

"This is how it's gonna affect you."

[cheering, applauding]

Churches made a point of saying,
"You are voting yes on this."

I'm convinced
that this is what pushed Prop over,

why it passed.

It's the kindness of God
that leads us to repent.

[cheering]

[Yvette on stage]
It's the kindness of God...

[Yvette narrating]
So many churches coming together.

I've never seen something
like that happen before,

ever, before Prop .

- [cheering]
- [Yvette speaking inaudibly]

[distorted cheering]

[distorted cheering continues]

[Randy] When Prop passed,

I was not an Obama supporter at the time.

Back then, I was like, "Ugh, Obama won."

You know?

But Prop passed!

You know, and I was talking up
a good game on social media.

[clamoring]

[anchorman]
Thousands marched in California,

protesting the election night passage
of Proposition .

[anchorwoman] A massive protest
on the passage of Proposition ,

the ban on same-sex marriage.

I had never felt such a sense of...

of being less of a person.

- [reporter] You're crying.
- Yeah.

I'm just ashamed of our state.

[Randy] But I'll never forget that night,
watching the news.

[solemn music playing]

[music continues]

[clicks tongue]

[quivering] Seeing my community...

Back then, I didn't realize it,
but I knew in my heart.

Watching my community take to the streets...

and mourning the passage of Prop .

When I looked at the TV,

and a voice inside me said,

"How could you do that
to your own people?"

[music continues]

[quivering] And I saw these men crying.

And I knew that their dreams
had just been shattered.

And I couldn't talk
the same way after that.

[music continues]

[music stops]

[Yvette] After Prop ,
I started having extreme anxiety,

panic att*cks.

We were driving down
to an Exodus conference,

and we were
probably two hours into the drive,

and I started having a panic att*ck.

Every time I'm going to do something
that's related to Exodus

or ex-gay things,

I'm gonna have these panic att*cks.

I still didn't know.

I didn't know why.

I met with this therapist,

and she said,
"Obviously you have trauma here,

because you're exhibiting symptoms
that are more like PTSD."

And that's when
it really started to dawn on me.

There's something wrong.

So it wasn't even conscious.

It was more physical at first,

where my body
just would not allow me to continue.

When we're talking
about the ex-gay movement,

it's wanting to be part of a group.

It's wanting to belong,

and here are my people.

Here are people
who have the same struggles as I do.

So you're going to abide
by the rules of the group.

And even if there's shame involved,

it seems like a small price to pay
for what you're getting.

[therapist] That was the major theme
throughout our work...

[Yvette] Yeah.

[therapist] ...to understand shame.

Shame being
this inherent feeling of, "I am wrong."

- Right.
- "I am bad."

I think we all struggle all the time
with trying to manage that.

You're in a place now in your life
where nobody's gonna tell you what to do,

and no one's gonna tell you who you are.

[inhales deeply] It's so different.

[crying] 'Cause I've spent nine years
in this room,

and I've changed so much in that time.

[sniffles] I'm nothing like what I was.

Nothing.

[sighs]

[Yvette]
The puzzle pieces were coming together.

Even with the same-sex attractions
in myself,

those never went away.

Is that change, then?

Because before I had been
defining change on actions alone.

Then I'm thinking,
"Well, did that really go away?"

No! I just changed

how... what my connections
with people were.

And I just avoided things.

But did I really change?

Oops!

[daughter laughs]

- [piece clatters]
- And I gotta move.

- [daughter] Hey, hey, hey.
- Oh! Oh!

[Yvette] I would classify myself
as bisexual.

I love my husband.

Been married for a long time.

And then I knew, okay,
then I have the capacity for both.

You know, I... I'm attracted to both.

- [husband] There you go.
- Actually, that kind of works out for me.

[husband] You're cheating
because it's Mother's Day.

[Yvette] Yep. [laughs]

[hopeful music playing]

[Julie] Ugh! This is so great.

[wedding planner] I know!
Such a great view.

Wow. It's gonna be so gorgeous.

[whispers] Wow.

[wedding planner]
You guys will walk out as a couple,

and then if you're thinking
about doing formals at the high altar,

we'll stash you away,
and then let your guests clear out.

When cocktail hour is in full swing,
you'll come back up.

- Oh my goodness!
- Yeah.

Will you take a picture of us?
We're just so excited.

- Which way do you wanna face?
- We'll do both!

[Julie] When I was still involved
at Living Hope,

I was severely,
severely, severely depressed,

but I didn't know why
I was overwhelmed or sad.

And I always felt like such a freak.

Like, oh, like, "What's wrong with me?"

"Like, I'm a total maniac, like,
burning up and hurting my own body,"

and this and that, because I didn't see it

as a result of, like,
the system and the culture

around me that made me hate myself.

I continued to believe
that God will help me live a life

of purity and holiness.

I was speaking at Exodus conferences
and doing writing on their blog,

and I was seen as a leader
within the movement.

[crowd cheering]

[Lisa Ling] While the gay rights movement
breaks historic ground,

the ranks of defectors
from the ex-gay movement,

so-called "ex-ex-gays,"

are growing and growing louder.

[crowd chanting] Ex-gay, no way!
Don't believe a word they say! Ex-gay...

[Lisa Ling] Michael Bussee
is helping them find their voice.

Decades after founding Exodus,
he has found a new calling.

[Michael] I retired a few years ago
and now pretty much deal

with folks who come out
of reparative therapy programs.

I have a couple of online groups
I do on Facebook.

For the past several decades,
I've been an outspoken former leader,

trying to educate people
about the harm that these programs do

and also supporting survivors
as they speak out.

[Julie] If somebody left,
we didn't hear from them again.

The way they were talked about internally
was like,

"Oh, they've gone to the dark side,
they've given in to the flesh."

Just this kind of this crazy talk of like,
they are gone. They are dead to us.

[Michael] Exodus always tried
to distance themselves

from the stories of survivors.

They tried to say,
"Oh, those are the outliers."

"Yeah, in every organization,
there are some people who are harmed

or who... but that's not
the vast majority of people."

But the press started
picking up these stories

of people that had been harmed
by ex-gay programs.

That made it harder
for Exodus to ignore them.

I wrote a blog post one day

to publish on Exodus's site.

And I basically, toward the end of it,
spoke to ex-gay survivors and said like,

"I'm so sorry..."

"I'm so sorry that you went through this,

and I'm so sorry that you didn't hear
that God loves you, like, right now,

like exactly where you are."

I said at the end of it,
"I hope someday I can hear your stories."

Michael Bussee reached out to me,

and he was like, "You said you wanted
to hear the stories of survivors."

"I can create a Facebook group
for us to have some sort of exchange."

And so I was like, okay,
like, I meant that.

Seventy-five people agreed
to be a part of it.

So many of them
were really gracious to me,

considering what I represented,
being connected to Exodus.

And yet they were very honest
about how much ex-gay teaching

had ruined their lives.

What ends up happening is

Lisa Ling reaches out to Exodus

and Michael Bussee and is like,
"I heard about this group going on."

"Would y'all be interested
in doing it on air?"

I was the president of Exodus at the time.

And I thought it was important
that I listened to their stories.

They came up with...
with a group of people, um,

some of whom I'd had direct contact with,
most of whom I hadn't.

We met in a church basement

and had the most intense

group therapy encounter
that I have ever been through.

[survivor] Each survivor here comes

from a different level.
Some of them are fresh out.

Some of us have been surviving
for years,

waiting for a moment to look at you
and say, "You are responsible

because you've had opportunities
to see our wounds before,

and you've not done anything about it."

[survivor ] The irony of it is

I feel I lost my soul in trying
to do the right thing all the time.

Not from doing the wrong thing,
not from "giving in."

I lost my soul
because I did the right thing.

[quivering] And these kids,

they're k*lling themselves

because of things
that continue to be said to them,

that they're not good enough,

and that they're not beautiful
as they are.

And I am not okay with that,
and I can be silent no longer.

It was absolutely devastating,
and I think for me, it was the first time

that I identified more
with the survivors sharing their story

than I did with anybody from Exodus.

[Julie] These stories of deep, deep pain

shook me down to my core.

Feeling like they were in many ways

sharing my story.

I remember feeling like I was sitting
on the wrong side of the circle.

And I was just like,

I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't,
I can't do this anymore.

Like, I can't be a part of it.
This is just so toxic.

[Randy] When the Lisa Ling show came out,

I knew then that Exodus was death,

and it was destruction.

[voice quivering] Because those survivors
were looking at us right in the face.

And we could no longer excuse it away.
We could no longer deny it.

And that Exodus could no longer continue

to promote the idea of change

because that was a lie.

Exodus was started in to create

a community together,

but we've hurt people.

And it is for these reasons

Exodus International,

the oldest and largest Christian ministry
dealing with faith and h*m*,

is closing its doors... [quivers]

...after three-plus decades of ministry.

[hopeful music playing]

[Julie] Once Exodus was ending,

I started trying to build a life
away from Living Hope.

I felt the loss of my community,

but I had to leave to get healthier.

I came to realize
that I was really needy and unhealthy

because there were zero people in my life

who ever just said like,
"You're okay exactly the way you are,

and we love you, and God loves you,
and you don't have to change a thing."

Being able to move away
from Living Hope and ex-gay teaching

and admit that I was gay

and that that was actually, like,
a good thing,

for the first time,
I started to feel light, and happy,

and like God loved me and liked me,
and it was just all fine, and I was fine.

We've talked
about how Christian communities

are where we've experienced so much pain
and trauma in our lives.

At the same time,

this faith has also been
a huge source of our healing.

When I interact with Jesus,

and see who Jesus was and how Jesus lived,

I'm like, "Oh my gosh, that's amazing."

And so it's been really important for me
to sort of separate, I guess, like,

Jesus from the Christians who hurt me.

I was here this last Friday
for a service they did, um,

honoring and remembering Matthew Shepard.

And I have never seen,

I have absolutely never seen
so many q*eer people

in a church.

[crying] All these people who have carried
so much shame, and so much humiliation,

and physical abuse,

and all these things, um,
got to come into a church,

probably for the first time in decades,

and to hear, "You specifically..."

"You gay person, you bisexual person,
you transgender person,"

like, "You are welcome here,
and you are wanted here,

and we honor your lives,
and this is a safe place for you."

Having the grace
to find this kind of place,

who's gonna speak that blessing
over us and to us,

um, is the deepest source of healing
we could ever receive.

[train rumbling]

[train horn blaring]

[Julie] After Exodus ended,

the same work
that was going on under Exodus,

all those ministries,

including Ricky and Living Hope,
continued doing the work.

What I do is deal with folks,

for the most part, who are struggling
particularly with h*m*.

- [audience applauding]
- And spending my days, spending my days

talking with people
who are sexually broken,

that there is freedom in Christ.
There is freedom...

[Julie] So, conversion therapy,
it appears to be flourishing and thriving

in Christian communities
where I come from.

A group accused
of promoting a controversial practice

aimed at changing sexual orientation

kicked off a conference
in San Diego today.

When we shut down Exodus,
most of the old-time leadership

decided to continue on

and try to take as many people
as they could with them.

And that's how
the Restored Hope Network was born.

You have to tell us
about Restored Hope Network.

Restored Hope Network is a network
of ministries of people like me,

who have left h*m*,

and who want to share
how to do so with others.

And that's exactly why I do this.

It's to get the word out
that there is hope.

My dad and I had a strained relationship,
not from a lack of love for each other,

but rather an inability

for us to really, truly connect
in the way that I needed,

leading to doubt and confusion.

At the age of ,
I came out to my parents...

[Yvette] I mean, it's such indoctrination.

All of the lingo that they use,

and the pattern of the testimony,

and even the pattern of their lives.

[crying] Seeing Katie walk down the aisle...

[sniffles]

It was a day that I'll never forget.

And our wedding day was
a true testament to Jesus Christ.

[audience applauding]

[Yvette]
In the past five years or so,

there have been
this mass defection of leaders,

but there are
new people taking up the torch.

And it's not dying the way
that we thought it would

or think it should.

[Jeffrey] There's some of the things
that the older ex-LGBTQ ministries do

that we don't do.

[indistinct chattering]

[Jeffrey] It's just a different way.

I think it's attracted

this younger generation
just going out on the streets.

[lively indistinct chattering]

[Jeffrey narrating]
Instead of being behind a conference,

go out on the streets.

Instead of being
behind the church building,

go out to the people.
Like we're just doing it a different way.

[crowd applauding, whooping]

[emcee ] Hello, everybody!

- [emcee louder] Hello, everybody!
- [whooping louder]

[emcee ]
This is our second annual Freedom March.

Some of us have traveled
all across the world.

All these different faces,
all these different races

to come and make a stand,

to come and let people know
that freedom is here.

[emcee ] Give it up for the leader
of Freedom March, Jeffrey McCall.

[crowd applauding, whooping]

[Jeffrey on stage] The vision of this
is just sharing testimonies

of people that left the LGBTQ lifestyles,

that had an encounter with God.

And we're here together
to share our stories.

Prayer works!

And I stand here proclaiming
the name of Jesus Christ,

that He is Lord, and I love Jesus!

Have you laid on the floor and said,
"Jesus, take this away from me

because I wanna follow you, Jesus.
I wanna be your son or daughter."

Lord Jesus, there is freedom
in the name of Jesus Christ.

I believe that something
is being birthed out of here today.

Father, I ask that you will unite us
as overcomers.

Lord, we want you back
in the forefronts of America.

In Jesus' name, we thank you, Father.

In Jesus' name.

[ethereal music playing]

[music fades]

Shortly after coming out,

a gay person

said very bluntly and directly
that I had blood on my hands.

He said, "What do you think
about the blood on your hands?"

[quivering] I said, "Right now...

all I know is I'm afraid
to look down at my hands."

[indistinct chattering]

[Randy narrating] As a leader,
I had been trained to acknowledge the loss

but to rationalize it away,
to go into denial.

And I hate that I did that.

And for many people
who don't commit su1c1de,

we're k*lling ourselves internally

by not embracing who God created us to be.

[all] Our Creator, who art in heaven,
hallowed be Thy name.

Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done,

on Earth as it is in heaven.

Give us this day our daily bread,

and forgive us our trespasses,

as we forgive those
who trespass against us.

[Randy narrating]
I can't look back and say,

"This deserves forgiveness,"
or "I deserve forgiveness,"

'cause I don't.

What I did was wrong.

[crying] It was so wrong.

[Michael] When you finally realize
how much harm you've done,

it's a crushing realization.

It's a devastating feeling.

But apology only goes so far.

You really can't go back
and give people back those years

that they wasted trying to be ex-gay.

All you can do is,
from this point forward,

speak out against it,
and speak out strongly against it.

[interviewer] Talk directly to the camera.

I want you to talk
to your former colleagues

about what they're still doing
with this type of work.

Well, I used to be a true believer,
just like you did.

I mean, I absolutely thought
that what we were doing was right,

but all it does is crush souls.

It crushes peoples' lives.

I can't stand that I was a part of it,

and I would hope that you would have
the empathy and compassion

to see that all it does is damage.

- [birds chirping]
- [hopeful piano music playing]

[music continues]

[pastor whispers] Okay,
take a deep breath.

We've come together
in the presence of God to witness

and bless the joining together

of Amanda and Julie in holy matrimony.

[Julie] I suffered trauma,

and it definitely resulted
in extreme forms of self-hatred,

but I survived.

I'm really happy,
and I found somebody that I love so much.

And we're doing well,
but not everybody is.

Ex-gay leaders are doing what they believe
is the best thing for all of us.

The problem is that
they think whole and healthy means

trying to fit ourselves
into something we can't be.

I wish that they would listen to us

and believe us when we say

that we really are
so much healthier and happier

now that we're no longer a part of that.

[pastor] God created you
for communion with one another.

And the highest expression
of this communion will be your marriage.

You may kiss your bride.

- [applauding, whooping]
- [pastor laughs]

[director] Thank you so much
for sharing your story. Thanks, Julie.

[indistinct chattering]

As long as h*m* exists
in this world,

some version of Exodus will emerge.

Because it's not the organization,

and it's not even
the methods that they use.

It's the underlying belief

that there is something
intrinsically disordered

and change-worthy about being gay.

As long as that continues to exist,

there will be some form of this.

[dramatic music playing]