01x01 - Episode 1

Episode transcipts for the "Leaving Neverland" a two-part original documentary. Aired January 2019.
A two part documentary on Michael Jackson's long-running relationships with two boys, aged 7 and 10, and their families. They now tell the story of how they were sexually abused by him two decades ago.
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01x01 - Episode 1

Post by bunniefuu »

Get a couple more sh*ts in.

Photographer: Okay.

You know what I want you to do? Be really brave.

I want you to jump up so you...

Jump as high as you can, so you and Mike are the same height.

On the count of three. Okay?

One, two, jump!

Cool! All right.

- I blinked, though, 'cause he threw his arms.

- (laughter)

I think when I was with him, he was happy.

- Photographer: Michael, you don't understand that.

- Yeah!

Kids and animals, they always try to do that.

James: He was at the peak of his creativity, and he was at the peak of his success.

And everybody wanted to meet Michael or be with Michael.

He was already larger than life.

And then he likes you.

Wade: He was one of the kindest, most gentle, loving, caring people I knew.

He helped me... tremendously.

He helped me with my career.

He helped me with my creativity, with all of those sorts of things.

And he also sexually abused me.

For seven years.

- (child giggles)

- Girl: Want to turn him on?

Woman: He just wants to eat it. Oh!

(indistinct chattering)

I'm Wade Robson.

So, I was born in Brisbane, Australia, and I am the third of three kids.

My dad, he worked in construction for a while, and then he got into, like, the fruit business.

So, when I was young, he had a couple of fruit shops.

And my mother used to work with him, with those businesses.

Hi, I'm Joy Robson, mother of Wade Robson.

- (indistinct chatter)

- Well, we were a middle-class Australian family.

We lived on three acres.

We had horses and angora goats, and a dog named Sally.

Where's it supposed to be going?

Boy: In here!

Joy: Shane was quite a bit older. He's nine and a half years older than Wade, and he was...

already well into elementary school when Wade was born.

It was just a, like a, I think, a three-bedroom, like, single-story house.

We had a pool.

There was always, like, always family over, and I had parties there and pool parties.

- (grunts)

- (laughter)

Pretty good memories from that place.


Joy: Chantal was very close with him.

Being three years apart, they played together a lot.

Chantal: Wade was always a...

a very sensitive boy.

He wasn't really a guy's guy. He wasn't into, like...

You know, he played basketball for fun as a little kid, but if he had a choice of doing anything, he was gonna read a book or listen to music or dance, you know, versus going outside to play football with his friends.

Joy: He was the youngest in the area, so he really had nobody to play with.

So he and I, we were very close.

We spent a lot of time together.

John Landis: One, two, three! Go!

Joy: I remember one day coming home with the video of The Making of Thriller.

Someone had told me that it would be a collector's item.

I really wasn't a fan of his, but I did like some of his music.

Wade: Once I saw that tape, you know, everything changed for me.

The music, I couldn't help but move to it.

Kind of set me on f*re.

You know, just made everything tingle, and it was so exciting.

I remember just watching the tape over and over again.

Pausing, rewinding.

I would just try over and over and over again to really perfect the complexities of Michael's movement.

♪ 'Cause this is thriller ♪

♪ Thriller night ♪

♪ And no one's gonna save you ♪

♪ From the beast about to strike ♪

I slowly but surely started, you know, plastering my walls with images of Michael, and it literally became like the wallpaper.


going to sleep, waking up in Michael Jackson land.

Newsman: Jackson's world tour coincides with the release of his latest album, entitled Bad.

Sales are good.

A half-million copies were sold the day it went on the market.

Newsman : Not since Thriller five years ago has the record industry been so focused on a single album.

Joy: He would've just turned five, and people kept telling me, you know, he's really good.

You should, you should do something with him.

That week, a friend of mine came to me and said, "You know Michael Jackson's here on the Bad tour." I said, yes, actually, I thought about buying tickets.

But I thought, he's so young, I don't think I...

She said, "You should go." She said, "There's a dance competition. You should enter him.

First prize is to meet Michael Jackson." The competition was only like a week before the concert.

And he went into the heat, and they were held in the Target store.

He had his little hat on, his little Bad outfit.

My hairdresser had made it for him.

Wade: I was actually too young.

It was, like, seven or eight, and up, and I was five at the time.

So, they said, "Well, you know, he can't compete "because of his age, but, um, but we'll let him perform as, like, a special guest."

Joy: It's one of those little things that he got on stage and everything changed.

He just wasn't that shy, little boy, and he had got on stage and brought the place down.

Everybody was screaming for him.

And at the end of it, the store manager was the judge, and he said, "Well, I wanna get out of here alive, so I'm going to declare Wade Robson the winner."

Michael Jackson's people were there to interview and asked him, if he could speak to Michael, what would he say.

I'm gonna ask him if he might come over to dinner.

Interviewer: Coming over for dinner.

Why would you want him to come over for dinner?

I want him to...

I want him to show me how he dances.

Oh, well, that's a big deal.

You're gonna see the show, you know that?

You gonna be able to see him dance then?

- Mm-hmm.

- You think that's gonna be nice?

Yeah? Why is that gonna be so nice?

- Because I get to see him.

- Yeah.

Wade: You know, this complete impossibility, this being from another world...

Michael, and supposedly it was gonna happen, and we were actually gonna meet now.

I was just excited beyond measure.

I remember getting this glow that sort of started in my heart and went to all my extremities.

It was an amazing feeling.

When something magical was going to happen, I would get that feeling.

I'm James Safechuck.

I grew up in a little town called Simi Valley.

(birds chirping)

I was pretty happy and pretty outgoing.

Kind of a performer, I guess.

My father worked at a rubbish company.

So, we had a family rubbish company that my grandfather started.

My mom, she had a hair styling business, and, um, I remember being in the beauty salon as a kid.

I'd hang out there while she was working and just sweep the floors.

My name is Stephanie Safechuck.

I'm Jam...

I'm Jimmy's mother.

When I married Jimmy's father, he had two children, it came with the marriage.

At the time, my husband had had a vasectomy, and I didn't think I could have any children.

About three, four years into the marriage, I really wanted a baby.

So, my husband had it reversed for me, which back then, they guaranteed nothing.

I was so fortunate to have a baby.

I just remember having him and being overwhelmed, just crying over his crib, that he'll always be all right.

He's my love.

James: I have an older brother and older sister.

They are much older.

They left home early also, so...

I was alone.

Stephanie: It was actually a friend of ours, her daughter was in commercials, and ran into my husband and Jimmy in the grocery store and said, "You ought to get him in commercials.

He is so adorable," and gave my husband the agent's card.

So, I called the agent, and when she met him, she said, "He's money in the bank. I'll take him." So, he did very well right away.

Jimmy: Michael?

- (knocking)

- Mr. Jackson?

James: I met Michael on the set of the Pepsi commercial.

I don't remember being a huge fan of his at the time.

I was probably more into, like, Voltron and Transformers.


This kid wanders around backstage and he discovers the dressing room, and he goes in there and he sees the jackets and the hats and the glasses and all that, and I'm trying it on.

And then, Michael walks in and...

and he says...

- Michael: Looking for me?

- ("Bad" playing)

- (laughs)

- They were trying to get my reaction on camera the first time I saw him.

So, first time I see him is actually the sh*t that they use in the commercial.

He invited me into his, um, trailer.

Stephanie: This was exciting for Jimmy, and I didn't want to be in his way.

I wanted Jimmy to have fun and have a good day, so I let Jimmy go in his trailer, Michael's trailer, with Michael's hairstylist and makeup artist, Karen.

And I stayed outside.

What she said to me was, "He's like a nine-year-old little boy." So, that made me feel comfortable.

James: How do you explain Michael Jackson?


He's larger than life.

There's no stars like that now, that kind of megastar.

And everybody wanted to meet Michael or be with Michael.

He was quiet, and he laughed a lot at me, and he was giggly.

The stand-in, we became kind of buddies, and I looked at him and I said, "Oh, we're the luckiest boys in the world."

Wade: He was performing two nights in Brisbane.

We went to the first night of the concert just to watch, and that was the first time I'd seen him perform live.

I remember my mind just being bl*wn.

Experiencing his energy magnified...

through all those thousands of people, and through all those speakers, you know, and that energy just kind of shaking my whole body.

Joy: We went to the concert the Friday night, and we had a meet and greet with Michael.

Wade: Here he was now...

as, you know, a seemingly real human being.

He kept commenting on my Bad outfit, how great he thought it was.

Joy: And Michael said, "Were you at the concert tonight?"

And we said yes. He said, "I wish I'd known. I would've put him on stage with me."

The stage mother in me kicked in.

I said, "We'll be there tomorrow night," 'cause they had given us tickets as well as the winner.

So, he said, "I'll see what I can do." Wade won a dancing competition this week on Thursday night at Indooroopilly. He won the dancing competition.

These are some of the photos of him in action.

Wade: The next day, I was on...

a TV show, like a morning TV show.

Woman: Wade, come on over, very quickly, because we're gonna tell everyone.

This is a secret, okay? This is a bit of a secret.

Now tonight, what's gonna happen tonight?


When I saw him, Michael Jackson told me to go on stage with him and dance.

Woman: Well, best of luck. I hope you do dance with him tonight.

So, if you're going to Michael Jackson tonight,

- keep an eye out for Wade, okay?

- Yeah.

(crowd cheering)

("Bad" playing)

Wade: Music is still blaring, and all the lights are going, this intensity.

It was a wild sensation.

Joy: Then all of a sudden, this huge black man came out of nowhere with a big top hat, and took Wade out of Dennis's arms, and told us to wait there, and took him backstage.

You know, being... The curtains being pulled back, right, of kind of just the whole world behind the scenes... his world.

Michael came up to me and grabbed my hand, and just sort of gave me a signal like, you know, come on, like, let's do it.

I kind of look out at this sea of people,

- and then something clicked.

- (snaps fingers)

And I grabbed my hat, you know...

(bl*ws)... and threw it off, and just started going, started dancing.

Like, I was him, almost, for a moment. I mean, you know, the center of his stage with his audience.

(crowd cheering)

♪ Be bad! ♪

♪ Yeah! Ow! I'm bad! ♪

♪ Really, really bad! ♪

♪ Bad, bad, really, really bad ♪

Wade: You got all these other kids, and Stevie Wonder was on stage as well.

He was singing with Michael.

♪ Really, really bad ♪

♪ Woo! I'm bad! You know! ♪

We love you!

Joy: And then, it was time for Michael to leave.

It was the end of the concert, so he called the kids to follow him off stage.

But Wade was so into what he was doing, he didn't see that, and he's still dancing.

So, Michael's sort of walked away and realized Wade wasn't coming, and he turned back and he laughed.

Michael just clapped and walked off, and Wade suddenly realized everybody was leaving, so he followed them out. It was very cute.

♪ Bad, bad, really, really bad ♪

♪ Bad, bad ♪

Each moment of that actual kind of eye connection...

(sighs) was, uh...

like a bit of a shock to the system.

That performance, that meet and greet, were such dream-like...

experiences, and kind of, um, sensory overload, an emotional overload.

♪ Michael Jackson's bad! ♪


Shane: I remember them coming home after the concert, and Dad come in my bedroom, and he was all excited 'cause Wade had danced with Michael Jackson, and I remember Dad, kind of, getting teary-eyed telling us...

telling the story about it, you know, dancing with Michael Jackson.

Joy: The next morning, I wanted to bring in a thank-you letter for Michael 'cause this was his last concert.

He was leaving Australia.

There were a lot of fans around, and they all recognized Wade.

So, he was a little celebrity.

They were all taking photos with him and talking to him.

Michael had heard that we were in the lobby, and he wanted us to come up to his room.

And I can remember Wade's face just lighting up.

"I'm gonna meet a real superstar." He was so excited.

I mean, this was... Who gets to meet their hero, their superhero?

This is this little boy getting to do it twice now.

We end up spending about two hours with him in his hotel suite.

He was in some sort of editing process for his Moonwalker film.

It's like, there he was on the TV screen, as I was used to seeing him, and then there he was, sitting right next to me on the bed.

Michael's hand was rubbing up and down on the sheets right beside my elbow as he was talking to us.

And I can remember thinking, "Oh my God. I'm on a bed with Michael Jackson."

I can remember thinking that no one's ever gonna believe this.

It was pretty overwhelming.

We all had an overwhelming weekend, that is for sure.

Wade: This little Australian boy, who had had this other-worldly, impossible experience of having this meeting with my idol and my mentor and my god.

Like I'd been...

anointed, you know, in some kind of way.

Stephanie: One day, the phone rang, I picked it up.

"Hi, this is Michael.

"I'm calling from Australia. I was...

I saw Jimmy's commercial."

I thought, how touching.

He doesn't think it's his commercial.

He thinks it's Jimmy's.

So, I put Jimmy on the phone, and I could hear Jimmy say, "People tell me at school that you're weird."

Michael said, "Don't listen to what anybody says.

You know me, You know I'm not weird," and that started the relationship.

So, Michael's still in Australia, and asked if he could send a crew to our house to film Jimmy.

So, a crew came.

Jimmy didn't have any posters of Michael, so they put up posters of Michael all through Jimmy's bedroom, so that when they filmed it, you know, it was more appealing.

It was exciting for all us, for the whole family.

And I was thrilled!

Like, wow!

Because it's, um...

It's like...

It's hard to believe that I can see Michael Jackson when people just dream about him.

And that stuff, it's really neat.

I sat on the bed and put all this memorabilia there, and they just interviewed me, and then I did a little dance performance and they filmed that.

♪ You've been h*t by ♪

♪ You've been h*t by a smooth criminal ♪

♪ Ow! ♪

Now, that I look... Now that I look back on it, it's almost like an audition for him when he sends his film crew out.

♪ A crescendo, Annie ♪

♪ He came into your apartment ♪

♪ Left the blood stains on the carpet ♪

♪ And then you ran into the bedroom ♪

He didn't explain it.

I just figured he's far away.

This is part of how he can be with people, and he made it clear that he was very lonely.

He didn't have any friends.

And then, his...

secretary or somebody called and...

asked if we would like to go to dinner at the Hayvenhurst house.

Going to Hayvenhurst, it felt...

it felt magical, I guess.

The house is beautiful.

It had the recording studio, so we went in there, and I think we saw his brothers, said hi.

We had dinner and watched Batteries Not Included.

He gets movies before they come out, so he had a little movie theater there.

I remember seeing his dance floor for the first time.

Kind of a magical thing to see Michael at the dance floor, like, his private dance floor.

Stephanie: We were so excited.

This was big for us.

Nobody can befriend him.

He has to befriend people.

He's unapproachable.

So, for him to wanna be our friend was, "Oh my God!

How lucky are we?"

James: Mom and Dad, I think they were in awe.

And you're just starstruck.

You know, it's, um...

It's like...


And then at the same time, he's becoming a real person.

He's not this sort of, like, two-dimensional icon.

He gives you focused attention, and I think at that age, you want to be important, and you want to be noticed and loved.

So, it's a powerful, um, attraction.

We went into the closet and we're looking at his stuff and he told me I can pick out a jacket.

I could have that, that would be mine.

I picked the Thriller jacket.

Of course. Go big.

And I took it home. I wore it to the grocery store.

As I was leaving, he gave me an envelope full of cash, several hundred dollars.

Which, at the time, was a lot. It's still a lot.

Stephanie: He had our phone number, and he called the next day.

And he was gonna be by himself.

And I couldn't believe that, how can this man be by himself?

And so, my parents offered to go pick him up.

We got in the car, and we drove to the Hayvenhurst house.

And there's always, like, reporters and fans, so we had to sneak him out.

Michael was ducked with me in the back.

Some people gave chase and we had to, like, lose them and...

So, I think my father was excited to, like, "lose the reporters."

He had to drive fast or something.

Stephanie: And he came to our house, and went through Jimmy's closets, went through everything, acted like a little boy, giggling.

You watch movies, and you eat popcorn.

He loved popcorn.

Michael would come to our house a lot.

Michael and I would take walks around my neighborhood.

Just talking and walking and...

It would be at night time, of course, so he could sort of hide.

As soon as somebody noticed him, then the newspapers would be there and...

I think I went to Hayvenhurst a few times.

The more I would visit, the more, sort of, alone time you'd get with him.

So, I brought him some toys, and he gave me some gifts.

It's more like hanging out with a friend that's more your age.

So, it feels natural.

Stephanie: I came to feel like he was one of my sons by how he behaved.

I loved him.

He was a son I started to take care for.

He would spend the night. I'd wash his clothes.

At the time, when I was thinking about should we get Jimmy in commercials, I prayed to the Lord that if this is good for Jimmy, open the doors for him and let this happen.

And if it's not, don't let it happen.

Well, of course, the doors opened so quickly.

And then, when Michael would come to our house, I had told this story to Michael about how I prayed about this before it happened.

Well, Michael tells me, "I prayed, too.

"I prayed that I could have a friend. And then I met Jimmy."

Well, to me, the two prayers came together, and this was a friendship that was meant to be.

(jet engine whining)

James: I went to Hawaii with Michael for the Pepsi convention.

The trip felt like an adventure.

Rented out an amusement park for the night, and everybody went there and played.

We were treated very nicely there.

We went on a helicopter ride, which was nice.

James: And I remember there were dolphins, and you could just go see them.

I mean, we're from a small town, so this is bigger than, I think, anybody's expectations.

Stephanie: I wanted them to have fun, and I wanted my sonto be happy and have a good time.

So, I stayed my distance there in Hawaii during the day.

James: The hotel was beautiful, of course.

And I remember really wanting to stay in the room with him, and...

my mom wouldn't allow it at the time.

I didn't think it was appropriate for my son to go sleep with him.

I knew he was a kind man, and he was doing everything to make our trip there as good as it could be, but, you know, that... it didn't fit... you don't, um...

It didn't feel right. You don't...

go sleep with, you know, somebody else that you don't really know.

Jimmy was, "Please, Mom, please!" You know, 'cause he loved Michael.

But, no, I wouldn't let him.

But made sure I had my meals with them and that Jimmy slept with me.

And that's how it was the first trip.

James: I remember the plane being quite empty.

And I did this mock interview with him.

He said I could ask him anything I wanted.

Michael: We're in the air. We're on our way home from Hawaii.

Thousands of feet in the air on this DC- .

I've had a wonderful time with Jimmy.

Jimmy: Are you taping?

- Michael: Sure.

- Jimmy: Uh...

Michael: You can ask anything.

I was just playing reporter.

And he never gave interviews, so it was kind of like, sure, you can interview me, but nobody else got interviews, so it was also a big deal.

Jimmy: How did you like Hawaii?

What was your, like, best thing?

- Michael: My best thing about Hawaii?

- Jimmy: Yeah.

Michael: Being with you.

Jimmy: How do you feel about, um, performing and stuff, do you like it?

Michael: I love performing.

It is the greatest thing in the world because, um...

I feel at home on stage. I could live on stage.

I'm the most happiest when I'm on stage, and when I'm with Jimmy Safechuck.

But the best commercial of all the Pepsi commercials is the one that you and I did.

And I'm not just saying that, that's the best one.

'Cause it has heart.

Every time I see it, it makes me smile.

And I hope to be you all's friends for a long... forever, for a long time.

Good-bye, signing off! Bye.

James: And it's...

hard to listen to.

You can hear, like, the infatuation, and, and...

how much I was attracted to him, and then also, his...

like, reeling...

his attraction to you, for like...

making you feel special.

(answering machine beeps)

Michael: It's Michael. I'm calling from London.

I'm calling because I love you all, and I miss you very, very much.

I feel like you belong to me as well.

Bye. I love you all. Bye.

(line clicks)

Stephanie: A lot of our conversations were on the telephone.

My son would be on the phone, hours with Michael, hours.

And he talked to me. He would call just to talk to me during the day, and...

that wa... long conversations.

So, that's how he got to know people, I think.

Michael (over phone): You knew my voice right away?

Jimmy (over phone): Yeah, I jumped up, and I ran to the phone.

- Michael: You knew my voice right off?

- Jimmy: Uh-huh.

James: We were talking on the phone pretty regularly, and I was dancing and taking dance seriously, and it was like...

"Come join me on tour."

And he said, "You can choose wherever you wanna come, and stay as long as you wanna come."

James: So, as soon as school ended, I joined the tour for the summer.

My mother went, and my father would join whenever he could, but he wasn't there the whole time.

He flies you first class.

You have a limo waiting for you at the airport.

Amazing. You know, it's life...

of the rich and famous.

("Bad" playing)

James: I came on at the end of the song "Bad."

♪ Really, really bad ♪

And they would pick kids out of the crowd during the show, and then I'd lead, like, or kids out.

(crowd cheering)

I'd have a Bad outfit on that was just like his...

and so, I would dance.

We'd, like, side-moonwalked and did a few moves together.

♪ Bad, bad, really really bad ♪

I love you!

♪ Bad, bad ♪

♪ Really, really bad ♪

It's hard to explain to people what tour is like.

It's pretty crazy.

(crowd screaming)

(excited chattering)

Crowd: We love Michael! We love Michael!

(screaming continues)

The excitement of him just walking from his car, from the hotel to the car, is...

is insane.

(sirens blaring)

People are shoving you and snapping pictures, and...

holding onto the door handles, and being dragged by the car.

They're crying and...

It's a unique experience...

that level of star power.

♪ Hoo-hoo! ♪


I'm , on the tour, you know, having shows every night, and it's a bit overwhelming.

I love you, Michael!

♪ Hoo! ♪


There's all these sort of amazing moments on tour that you don't get in normal life.

(crowd screaming)

Stephanie: None of us were living a normal life when we traveled with Michael.

I got to meet Sean Connery.

That was big for me. It was like, "Oh my God, Sean Connery!"

And then at the shows, there's stars come in to meet him.

I think I met Harrison Ford and George Lucas and...

Steven Spielberg and...

And we even went to the set of the Indiana Jones movie.

And Harrison Ford took me outside, and showed me how to use his bullwhip.

And then he gave me the bullwhip.

Stephanie: I was on a bus with Tina Turner.

They bused the VIPs back and forth to the hotel.

And I heard her tell her boyfriend at the time, I was sitting close, "That little white boy sure can dance."

Well, I knew she was talking about Jimmy!

And that was like, "Oh, I know, he can dance." But I was so proud of Jimmy.

It was always a proud moment to see him on stage.

James: By that time, you're already best buds.

So, it's like, two friends going on an adventure or something like that.

(bus rumbling)

You're not going off and doing normal things people do when they travel.

So, you spend a lot of time just in the hotel room with him.

And the hotel rooms are, you know, the president suites, so they're quite large.

So, there's lots of room to play, and...

you just grow...


I remember we would fall asleep together, and then when I wake up, he would be in another room.

And I would be... hurt that he was in another room, and so I'd ask him to stay.

It seems like it was a natural... thing that happened.

My husband and I had to have said, "Yes, you can go sleep with Michael." In Paris, he introduced me to masturbation...

and that's how it started.

Michael and I were in his room.

He set it up like, "I'm gonna show you something that everybody does, and you'll really enjoy it."

So, it was like he was teaching you something new.

And I remember... my penis swelling up 'cause I did it so much that first time.

I must've...

(chuckles) must've done it a few times.

And so, I remember dipping my penis in warm water.

Michael filled a cup up with water, so I could pee. It was hard to pee.

I don't have any unpleasant...

memories, other than not being able to pee.

It felt like you were...

bonding, in a way.

The tour was the start of this sexual, like, couple relationship.

Stephanie: He was with Michael / .

I would go visit Jimmy, um, make sure he was okay, but Jimmy was always, "You can go, Mom. You can go, Mom."

He didn't want me there.

I missed him. I really missed my son, uh, not being with him.

Michael would like it if you... if you would bend over, and, like, spread open your cheeks. That's what he liked.

And then he would masturbate.

And he liked, um... if I rubbed his nipples.

So, we would do stuff, and then, in the end, when he wanted to ej*cul*te, he would...

he would finish himself.

Stephanie: Our room started to get further and further away from Michael's room.

And when I asked about it, we weren't even on the same floor now.

I asked in Paris, and I asked about that, and they said, "We couldn't get you a suite "close to Michael. No suites available.

This is where we could get you the nicest room."

That made sense to me, so I, "Okay."

But in Germany, we were, like, really far away from them.

And same thing.

Same thing. "We couldn't get you a suite near them."

James: He would run drills with me where, you'd be in the hotel room, and he would pretend like somebody was coming in, and you had to get dressed as fast as possible without making noise.

So not getting caught was a big, like, just kind of fundamental.

It was very much a secret, and...

he would tell me that if anybody found out, his life would be over and my life would be over.

And that's something he tells you over and over again.

(crowd screaming)

And French kissing.

He... said I introduced that to him.

Photographer: Two, jump!

- Cool! All right.

- I blinked, though, 'cause he threw his arms.


James: And it evolved from, like, French kissing and then kissing different parts of the body, and then, finally, like, kissing the genitals.

He started with, like, "Kiss it. Can I kiss it?"

I remember one time I was sleeping, and I woke up and Michael said that he had performed oral sex on me while I was sleeping.

And I was like, oh, okay.


I wanted to know what's going on in the room.

(laughing): My son doesn't know this, but I would, you know, go to the door, try to listen, hear what conversation was going on, and then I'd sneak away.

I wasn't worried that anything was going on.

I guess it was more curious. What are they doing in there?

Reed: What were they doing?

Playing. Reading. Michael was reading...

He bought him a lot of nice, good books, you know, and poems. He'd read poems to him.

Just kid things. They were just doing kid things.

So, I wouldn't actually, like, ej*cul*te.

It would be this...

like, kind of lubricant without anything in it, and that would sort of leak out.

- Dan Reed: From you?

- From me, yeah.

But Michael would ej*cul*te.

He said that I was his first sexual experience, and he would say that all the time.

He's the biggest entertainer, and he's a creative genius, and that creative genius thinks that you're special.

What's not to like, right?

(indistinct chatter)

Stephanie: Michael would always hold Jimmy's hand, and he said, "Would you to talk to Jimmy about holding my hand?

"People are gonna get the wrong impression.

You know how people think."

Man : Somebody special's in there.

Man : Michael Jackson.

"They're gonna think something nasty about it.

"Nothing's going on, but this is gonna look like something's going on."

(indistinct chatter)

James: Myself and Michael would scratch each other, here, on the palm, so that you were holding your hand...

And that meant, like, you were thinking of them sexually.

Woman: Happy New Year, Mike!

James: There's no thoughts of this is wrong or anything like that.

It's just a very... accepted way of expressing your love.

That's what he would say.

Stephanie: He was very close to us, seeing us every day, staying at our home.

We were the first guests he had, to go to Neverland.

I actually have the brochure that they used to market it, to sell it.

James: And he said, "I'm gonna purchase this house, and it's gonna be yours."

Like, "This place is for you."

Me and Michael would be there a lot together, like, for a week at a time.

Stephanie: His property was massive, so nobody was near him.

You know, the next ranch was quite a ways.

They have the most beautiful guest rooms.

Stephanie: This was the room I chose. I loved this room.

You could stay at any guest room you wanted.

And Jimmy stayed with Michael in the big house.

We had people cooking for us.

He had a beautiful wine cellar.

You know, really good wine, champagne, that was just something I enjoyed.

It was a fairy tale every night.

James: The routine was we would get a blanket and lay it down on the floor and inside of the closet, next to his main bed, so we could close the doors and have, like, several sort of doors people had to get through.

It was just the hall that leads to his room.

So, there were bells so you could have a moment of hearing them trip, and at least it alarmed him to when people are coming.

There was, like, kissing, and...

I think, just kind of rubbing on each other.

And then, um... oral sex, and then...

he would want me to suck on his nipples, and then he would finish himself.

He also had a, like, an Indian fort with tepees, and so we would lay down sleeping bags, have snacks, and then...

have sexual relations there.

There was also a game room, and then upstairs in the arcade, there was another room.

And it had a bed in there.

We would go into that room and have sex there.

There's this attic, there's a third-floor attic.

It was kind of secluded, like, you could only really get to it from... from these steep stairs, so you could tell if somebody was coming.

So, we would go in there and have sex.

There's toys everywhere, things to do.

So, they just kind of mix together.

He had another house far away from the main house, and then there he had a lot of memorabilia.

He had his jackets from, like, the Grammys, the rhinestone ones, and his glove.

And that was far away from people, and you could see if somebody was driving up his narrow road.

And we would have sex in there, too.

The movie theater had these two, like, private rooms.

Um, it had big glass windows, so you could see the theater.

And so, we would have sex in those rooms.

That was a bit dangerous.

So, there was a bit of excitement there.

So, I didn't tell him I was coming, and the door was locked.

And so, you have to knock loud because, you know, the movie's on.

And, he made some exc...

He came down, unlocked it, and did make some excuse.

He didn't mean to lock the door.

He didn't know the door was locked. That's what he told me.

He was in there with Jimmy, they were in the bed.

They were clothed.

Still, didn't think anything.

James: There was a castle in the theme park and upstairs had a bedroom.

You could see if somebody was coming.

It had just this small bed, it's upstair... and up there, we would have sex.

The pool and the Jacuzzi...

Oral sex, like, holding your breath and then going down, kind of like a game.

At the train station, there's a room upstairs, and we would have sex up there, too.

It would happen every day.

It sounds sick, but it's kind of like when you're first dating somebody, right, and you do a lot of it.


So, it was very much like that.

At the same time the sexual relationship is growing, he's working on pushing you away from your parents, or pushing you away from everybody else, and... and it feels more like... like it's just you and him.

Stephanie: My husband and I are still together.

However, we have separate bedrooms.

But our marriage was so bad, the whole situation, and I don't know that...

I don't even think my son knew because my son was so busy having fun.

He didn't know that Jim and I were in separate bedrooms, barely getting along.

James: We would listen in on people's phone calls.

Eavesdrop on my parents when they were fighting.

And he would tell me...

"Look how mean your mom is and how evil women are."

But, at the time, you just hear your mom yelling at your dad, and Michael feeds into that.

Your love for him is growing and your relationships with other people are getting less.

Your success is an American dream come true.

James: It's constantly reinforced, too, by everybody else in the world.

So, it's a really intense feeling 'cause everybody else is loving him.

It's like everybody's on board, so it's very powerful.

You start to think that your parents are bad and that Michael is good.

Newsman: We may not have Michael Jackson on the program tonight, but we have the next best thing, Wade Robson.

- ("Billie Jean" playing)

- (crowd cheering)

Newswoman: Joy and Dennis Robson are suitably proud of their son.

Dennis: It's really amazing because everything he does we haven't taught him anything.

The whole... the act that he does is all himself.

Nobody's taught him anything.

♪ People always told me, be careful what you do ♪

♪ Don't go around breaking young girls' hearts ♪

I started to like Michael, and I started copying the moves, and that's how I started dancing.

(crowd cheering)

I mean, if he wanted to stop, there'd be no pressure. Fine.

If that's what he wants to do, that's fine.

♪ You know I'm bad ♪

Newswoman: What do you wanna be when you grow up?

I wanna be a star, and keep everybody happy while I'm doing it.

♪ And the whole world has to answer right now ♪

♪ Just to tell you once again, who's bad? ♪

("Bad" continuing)

Wade: I auditioned for a dance company in Brisbane called the Johnny Young Talent School.

(crowd cheering)

I mean, this was, you know, a jazz dance company, but I showed up as Michael Jackson, in the full outfit again.

And they wanted me in the company, and I got in the company, and I became their Michael Jackson.

You know, we started performing at malls and all that sort of thing, pretty constantly, every weekend at least.

Shane: At some point, the hair got permed.

That was taking it to a new level for me.


He had the full curls and... yeah.

("Billie Jean" playing)

It's like a kid with his superhero, being obsessed with a superhero, but taking it up three or four notches.

It was kind of... kind of weird.

("Smooth Criminal" playing)

Joy: Every show they did was based around Wade, and it was amazing how this woman would work "Bad" into every scenario, or "Smooth Criminal," even Christmas.

♪ Pow! ♪

(crowd cheering)

And then, they announced that they were all going to dance in Disneyland for Australia Day.

Chantal: Because it was a big America trip, obviously my mom and my dad were gonna go, and then my grandparents came as well.

My name is Lorraine Jean Cullen, and I'm Wade Robson's grandmother.

He used to copy all the latest steps that Michael Jackson did.

Forever dancing, wouldn't matter where he was.

It wasn't my sort of dancing, that's for sure. (laughs)

But we just all went on the plane together, and we went over to Disneyland.

Chantal: There was, like, hundreds of kids, like, all in our red sweatsuits that said Johnny Young Talent School, like, going to America for the first time.

Joy: Michael had said, that last time we saw him, "If you ever come to America, look me up."

It's like, oh sure, you just look him up in the White Pages and find him?

I started calling around some of the television shows that Wade had been on, trying to find a number where we could contact Michael.

And we got passed around, passed around, passed around, and finally, somebody gave me a number, Michael's personal assistant.

So, we called her, and she said, "Oh, let me talk to Michael, and I will call you back." So, she did.

She called back and said Michael remembered Wade, and wanted to meet us, and asked if we would meet him in Sherman Oaks at Record One, where he was recording his new album.

Wade: The impossible.

You don't just come to America and start calling some numbers, and get in contact with Michael Jackson somehow, and then you're gonna see him again.

Like, that was just not a normal scenario.

Chantal: My mom, Wade, myself, and my dad, all went to Record One, and that's the first time that I actually had met Michael.

Wade: He was doing some sort of photo sh**t in the lobby area.

My mother and father and sister got in for a sort of group photo with Michael, and then he and I took some sh*ts alone.

I was in a full custom Smooth Criminal outfit.

We showed him some tapes of dancing, performances, things I've been doing over the last two years that he wanted to see.

I think it was a Friday, and he said, you know, "Do you and the family, do you guys wanna come to Neverland for the weekend?"

Michael asked if me and my sister wanted to drive with him, and of course I did.

And my parents and grandparents would follow behind.

I remember him playing us some music, like some unreleased music.

Just getting this, like, secret access, right, to him and to his world.

Joy: It was sort of surreal for us, for all of us.

Hollywood and this whole entertainment business was, um, on another planet from where we were.

Wade: As we were getting closer and closer to Neverland and, you know, Michael telling us, only about more minutes or more minutes, and just...

the excitement really building.

Lorraine: You had to pull up at the gate, and the guards came and wanted to make sure you didn't have any cameras or anything like that.

It was a little bit intimidating.

I hadn't met any celebrities ever, and I was quite lost, but I had my husband there, so, yes.

Joy: It's like a fairy land. It's all fairy lights, and there's beautiful lakes that are all lit up, and the house was all lit up. It was just amazing.

Chantal: As soon as you pulled in, there's music going.

There's flowers everywhere.

It felt like you were driving into this little heaven, you know.

The car pulls up, and there's everybody that works at the ranch kind of lined up, ready to greet you.

I've never been in that type of world before, and such a big house and...

it was magical.

Wade: I mean, we were all tripping out, you know, on this place.

You know, it was just... out of a...

out of a storybook, right, out of a fairy tale.

Joy: Michael showed us all around the house, and at that time, he only had the theater.

He didn't have all the other things.

It's like a child's dream come true.

There's a big candy store there that you just help yourself to, soft-serve ice cream, and all the chocolates in the world, and popcorn, and then a beautiful theater.

Wade: To the left was a dining room, and then kitchen, living room.

Tons of beautiful paintings and statues everywhere.

It was more than just going to someone's house that was beautiful.

You know, it felt like a lot more than that, a lot different than that.

It felt like traveling to another planet.

Joy: And then we all came back to the guest units, and Michael came back with the children.

They'd been looking at some other things.

And they came in and...

they asked if they could stay with Michael for the night.

Wade: The guest quarters is a separate building, essentially, kind of, across from the main house, with about, I think, four hotel rooms.

"You can stay in the guest quarters with your parents if you want, "or if you want, you can, you know, you can stay with me, in my room."

And I was like, you know, I wanna stay with Michael.

So, we thought, oh, okay.

We didn't seem to think anything of it.

We just thought that's fine, and Chantal was with him as well.

Wade: Like, for me to look back on the scenario now, what you'd think would be standard, kind of, instincts and judgment, uh, seemed to go out the window.

Even if we knew him, which we didn't, at all.

We'd known him for, I don't know what, four hours maybe.

Not known him. We met him four hours ago, you know?

That's the trippy part is because it felt like we knew him.

Like, he had been in my living room every day.

In my ears via his music and his posters like...

I had known him, I thought.

And it, for some reason, it didn't feel strange to let, you know, me, a seven-year-old, and my sister, a -year-old, sleep in this man's bedroom.

Chantal: Michael had an extra guest bed that was above his bed.

It was basically like a staircase that just kind of took you up to this other room in his room.

And so, he said that we could stay in his room in that guest unit, if we wanted to.

And of course, we were like, "Please, can we?" you know.

We went to his bedroom and sat on his bed and talked to him.

And he had a train running around the bed, electric train running the bedroom, and he was just like a child. Yes.

Wade: There was pillow fights.

I mean, just having a blast, like, no rules.

You know, like, you can't get in trouble, you know.

We were just kind of all hanging out in Michael's bed, in the same bed, like me, Wade, and Michael, and just watching movies and watching videos.

Wade: And then at some point, we just knocked out, all three of us on his bed.

Yeah, and that's as much as I remember that first night.

Joy: The next morning, waking up and looking at the lake, and the flowers were just amazing.

I mean, my mother said her first thought was, "Oh my God, I've d*ed and gone to Heaven." It was just so beautiful.

Here we go, like, a day of adventure, right.

Chantal: You know, it was a lot of just silliness, sort of like that chase each other and, you know, big water fights.

It seemed right away like he was family.

It was like being with a brother.

Wade: We kind of loaded up in a couple of golf carts, and him driving us around and showing us everything, right.

So this is the first time of seeing, um, the arcade.

We walk in and flip a switch and boom, the whole room comes alive, right.

One of the most amazing things that I could ever experience, and have total access to, to just go play whatever I wanted to.

And how I excited Michael was to kind of watch me and watch me react.

Joy: He was fascinated with Wade.

He said that, "It's like looking at myself in a mirror.

I see myself all over again." So, that was something to hear that, that was pretty impressive.

And this little boy was just living the dream.

He really was.

Wade: The theme park, which wasn't as extensive then as it became, but...

still a theme park in someone's house, you know.

You know, seeing my mother, kind of just, high and giddy and playful and like children.

And then on to the animals, right.

I mean, chimpanzees, giraffes, elephant, tiger.

You know, then it was bedtime, and it was just kind of unspoken, like it was set up already as to how it, you know, how we slept last night.

At some point, I had fallen asleep.

And I woke up.

I could hear, like, crying, like, sulking and sobbing.

(crickets chirping)

I could see a figure over in the corner, kind of scrunched up, sort of sobbing.

It was kind of hard to get words out.

'Cause we were supposed to leave the next day, the whole family.

"I'm just so sad that you guys are gonna leave me.

"You know, I don't wanna be alone.

I don't want you guys to leave." I mean, I felt the same way.

I felt like I almost had this kind of burden and guilt to like, if I leave, like, what's gonna happen to him?

Like, he was so upset, you know?

Then, the next morning, the plan was that we were gonna go on this kind of trip to the Grand Canyon and that sort of thing with an RV.

Joy: I remember going into Michael's room to talk to him about it, and he said to Wade, "We can stay here. We can go to Los Angeles.

We can go wherever you want, do whatever you want." And Wade wanted to stay at Neverland.

I actually didn't have a problem with it at the time.

I didn't actually have a hesitation.

So then, that's when I left with my mom and everybody, and we went to the Grand Canyon.

We had, like, a motor home, and we went and camped and did all that, and then Wade stayed with Michael.

I was ecstatic about this.

Michael was ecstatic about this.

So, my whole family left, um...

and I had, you know, five days ahead of me, with just me and Michael, doing whatever the hell we wanted to do.

There were no cell phones, or anything like that.

So, my parents had... once they left, they had no direct access to me at all.

They were really far away, in... many ways.


Lorraine: We went right through the canyon.

First time I've ever seen snow.

That was exciting, too.

And, uh... we thought that Michael was teaching him all his dances.

That's... We thought, how lucky he was to have that, somebody to take their time and do it, in his position, to have somebody like that, to teach him what to do.

I somewhat regretted it as we were traveling.

I became a little anxious, at times, about it.

And I remember calling once, and I couldn't get through.

I remember being absolutely hysterical on the phone at one point because I couldn't get through, and I couldn't find him.

Wade: First day at Neverland was Michael making physical contact with me.

Like, his had on my thigh, um, hugs, you know.

It felt great.

And, out of all the kids in the world, he chose me to be his friend.

And he's holding my hand.

Within the context of what was going on, it seemed normal, you know.

The days were filled with playing tag, watching movies.

He taught me how to do the moonwalk.

This contrast began between the day and the night.

We were going to sleep in his bed.

The first thing I remember is, is...

Michael... sort of, you know, moving his hands across my... legs.

We were both clothed in PJs.

And then his hands sort of got to, you know, my crotch area, and he's sort of fondling there.

Reed: And how old were you?

I was seven, seven years old when this began.

Fondling my penis over the top of my pants.

And then, his hands went underneath my pants.

And, uh...

and started touching my penis underneath my pants and...

Yeah, there was nothing aggressive about it, nothing abrasive.

I never felt scared or... anything like that.

It just... didn't seem that strange.

And then him guiding me to do the same thing with him.

So, moving my hands, um, to touch his penis.

Uh, which, you know, was erect.

Him talking to me, "You and I were "brought together by God.

"We were meant to be together.

"You know, and this is us "showing each other that we love each other. This is how we show our love." I mean, it escalated rapidly.

So, taking showers together and, you know, fondling and kissing.

So him kissing me, I mean, like, full, open mouth, tongue-in-mouth kissing.

He would put my fingers on his nipples, and, like, tell me to squeeze them.

And he would moan and react to that, like it felt good, and I liked the feeling that was making him happy, that was pleasing him, you know.

And then Michael pulling my pants and my underwear down, pulling them off... and, uh, and going down and starting to, you know, perform oral sex...

on me.

And I remember him putting my hands on his head when he was down there.


I'll never forget the... the, um, the feeling of his hair.

It was rough, almost like a, um, like a Brillo pad, like this roughness.

And he's down there and... you know, with his... his mouth on my, you know, seven-year-old penis.

You know, quickly it turned into having me perform oral sex on him, too.

(sighs deeply)

I mean, to be honest, and to be graphic about it, like, you know, a full adult, grown man-size penis...

in my mouth, you know, in a little seven-year-old's mouth...


He didn't ej*cul*te when he had me perform oral sex on him, but he used to... he would masturbate in front of me.

He would have me kind of go to, like, the corner of the bed, like, a far corner of the bed, so he'd be laying back on a pillow, and have me go to the far corner of the bed and, um, be on all fours, and have me sort of just bend over my knees, you know, um, so he could look at my anus while he was masturbating.

And I was just, kind of, on display.

And then, um, periodically through that, he would kind of come up and, um, and stick his tongue in-in my anus.

Right in front of me, there was this big, kind of elaborate, Peter Pan cardboard cutout.

So, it's like I was either looking back at him... masturbating, or looking forward at, uh, at Peter Pan.

You know, and then we'd get up in the morning like nothing had ever happened, and go have another day filled with childhood magical games and adventures.

Yeah, when my parents came back at the end of the week, I definitely remember a feeling of us and them.

You know, our relationship had evolved in so many ways, and he had done so much, um...

so much talking to me, about not trusting people, any people, especially women.

He started calling me "son." And for me, the idea of Michael Jackson being my dad was the most incredible idea in the world.

You know, I didn't have anything against my dad, that's for sure.

But Michael was just... It was just too big.

That fantasy was just too good to turn down.

Joy: And then the following week, we were supposed to be going to San Francisco, and Wade didn't want to go, he wanted to stay.

Michael was actually going back to Los Angeles for the week.

Um, but he invited us to go with him, so...

Wade and Chantal and I went to LA with Michael, and Dennis and my parents went to San Francisco for the week.

He was living in Westwood at the time.

He had a condo in Westwood, which they called the Hideout.

Um, I remember walking in there and there was statues of Shirley Temple and posters everywhere.

It was a really interesting place, childlike.


I think that's when that really started.

Chantal: We would go into, like, the record stores, and I remember, like, Michael just filling up, like, a whole cart, like, full of records and CDs, and we were allowed to put whatever we wanted in there.

Wade: Every time we entered a place, like, "Look around and get anything you want.

"Get everything," you know.

Normally, the experience was you go into a toy store and it's like, you can get one thing, you know.

And now this was, like, grab a cart and fill it up.

Chantal: Me and Mom slept in the living room.

Wade slept in the room with Michael.

I don't remember any sort of comment about me staying with Michael and sleeping in his room.

When we were in Los Angeles, Chantal and I spent quite a bit of time alone.

They, um, We went to Westwood. We'd walk down there and do things.

Wade and Michael would stay in the room a lot, just play... I presume playing games, and they did a lot of that sort of thing.

Watching cartoons, he was a big cartoon-watcher.

Once the abuse started, within that first week, you know, every night that I was with him, there was abuse, while my mother was, you know, next door.

You know, he started talking about how much he loves me.

"What this is, is us.

"How we show our love for each other.

"Other people are ignorant, and they're stupid, and they'd never understand."

If they ever found out what we were doing, about the sexual stuff, that he and I would be pulled apart, that we'd never be able to see each other again.

And that he and I would go to jail for the rest of our lives.

Stephanie: You do feel sorry for him.

You honestly believe that this is a lonely man, and that we can help make him happy.


Us, who are just nobodies.

We couldn't believe that he would want to hang around us in this tiny little house.

And he'd walk in the house and he'd walk in the front door, and he'd go...

(sighing): "The Safechucks!" Like he was at home, you know, full armed-up acting.

"Ah, the Safechucks!" That's how he felt about us.

You go from your normal lifestyle, day after day, everything's the same, to...

this big star calling your house, wanting to come to your home and have dinner in your home, wanting to spend the night in your little house.

He could be anywhere, with anybody in the world, and Michael wanted to be with our family.

This was all so overwhelming and like a fairy tale.

And I got lost in it, and I know my husband got lost in it, too.

James: You're just fully in love at that time.

When I wasn't with him, I was always thinking about him.

It just feels like the greatest thing when he calls.

He'd come over, we'd spend the day shopping and hang out or he'd spend the night.

Or I would go to the Hideout in Westwood and spend a few nights there.

So, we were like this married couple.

And I say married because we had this mock wedding ceremony.

We did this in his bedroom, and we... like, filled out some vows.

It's like, we're bonded forever.

It felt good, and the ring is nice.

It has a row of diamonds with a gold band...

the wedding ring.

It's hard to go back to that... moment.

I was really into jewelry, and he would reward me with jewelry for doing sexual acts for him.

He would say that I need to sell him some so that I could earn the gift.

You know, I like jewelry, and I liked it as a kid, and I think that...

something that I enjoyed was used against me, so I think that that...

causes discomfort. I...

It's still hard for me to...

not blame myself.

This piece of jewelry is like a Rolex...

ring with a diamond in the middle.

My hands are shaking just holding them.

We would go buy them...

at jewelry stores.

And we would pretend like they were for somebody else and...

like for a female, but...

we would pretend like my small hand fit whatever female we were buying it for.



Yeah, I don't-I don't like looking at the jewelry.

(lock clicks)

Wade: You know, I left Australia as this young fan of Michael Jackson.

And came back Michael Jackson's best friend.

- Reed: And his lover.

- Yeah.

And his lover.

Trying to adjust back to reality was hard.

I was back in school.

The thing that I think made it okay...

was that the contact with Michael was constant.

Joy: We used to spend hours and hours and hours on the phone.

He called every day, for two years.

Every blue moon, I would talk to Michael.

Like, if he called, I'd get on the phone and I'd say, "Hi, how are you?" Blah, blah, blah.

We'd talk for a couple seconds, but it's not like I...

you know, I didn't stay on the phone with Michael for hours or have big conversations, my brother did that.

It was sort of, he would call to talk to Wade.

He would talk to Wade for sometimes six, seven hours at a time, and I would say, "What on Earth do you talk about for all that time?"

I would try to listen, but they seemed to be very innocent phone calls.

Wade: He told me that I was gonna be this massive film director, you know, bigger than Spielberg.

He was telling me to keep working on my dancing, keep training.

You know, you're gonna come back out here soon, and, you know, you gotta be ready for us to change the world.

If I was at school, it was hard to focus on the work 'cause it was like, when I got off of school, when I got home, I was gonna get on the phone with Michael Jackson.

He used to call me Apple Head.

Um, I would call him Apple Head sometimes.

And then he started calling me Little One.

I don't know where it came from, but that became my...

my name from him, Little One.

It came with a song that he would sing to me, like this kind of lullaby.

♪ Has anyone seen my Little One? ♪

And then he would sing, ♪ My Little One is here ♪


I mean, it just felt, um...

really, uh, cozy.

It felt really endearing.

And at some point, we got a fax machine, so we could communicate more.

If I'm not mistaken, I think he bought it.

So, we were still having these really long conversations, but then now, there would be these constant faxes, back and forth, you know, I love you, Wade.

I love you, Little One.

My best friend forever and...

all kinds of stuff like that, and I would send stuff back, telling him how much I loved him.

Stephanie: We'd get home, and the whole living room would be filled faxes, like, all over the floor, everywhere.

I felt like he and I had a relationship outside of his relationship with Wade.

I felt like we had something quite separate.

I guess like a brother or a really close friend.

He'd get really lonely, and we'd talk about that.

Michael, he used to ring her all the time.

He was forever ever ringing her and talking to her.

She turned her life upside down because of Michael.

Wade: This separate relationship with Mom began.

I don't remember him ever explicitly saying, "Say hi to Dennis." It would be like...

That's my Dad's name.

It would be either the siblings or "Say hi to the family," you know.

- (applause)

- ("Thriller" cover playing)

He sent me back with some memorabilia, like clothing of his that I could wear.

- ("Smooth Criminal" playing)

- He gave me the hat, the white fedora hat that he wore in the "Smooth Criminal" music video.

I was just looking at this, and he said, "Do you want it?" And I said, "If you wanna give it to me," and I said "Sure."

- (laughter)

- And, um, He... This is the actual hat he used in the "Smooth Criminal" clip, and it's still got his makeup on it.

- See?

- Host: On the top here, yeah.

Just put it on, let's see how you look in it. Let's see how...

- Hey. Hey, that's pretty cool.

- (audience laughs)

That's pretty cool.

Wade: And he gave me the gloves that he wore in the "Bad" music video, sort of buckled gloves.

So, I used to wear those now when I'd perform.

My whole life was focused on him and leading towards him.

This kind of fantasy began for me that...

that like, pretty soon, I was gonna end up living with him.

You know, that I would kind of be with him, like a father and son, for the rest of my life.

Basically, we were in limbo waiting to come back.

And it took quite some time before he actually got around to bringing us back again.

He was doing a photo sh**t, a campaign for his new shoes for LA Gear.

And he saw that as a great opportunity to bring me out and to put me in the campaign.

So, my mother removed me out of school.

It turned into a six-week trip.

Our flights and everything were paid for.

Los Angeles was Michael Jackson for me.

And just being so excited to be back in what felt like, already, home, like, where I'm supposed to be, here and with him.

Also, anticipating the physical contact again.

The sexual contact, because that had become so...

intertwined with what our relationship was and what our love was.

Joy: I have some really, really happy memories from Neverland.

We'd drive in, and forget about everything that was going on in your life, forget about all your problems.

You were in Neverland.

It was a fantasy.

He and Wade would avoid me.

I could tell they were avoiding me.

You know, and it's a big place. It's , acres, and they'd take off for the day, and I'd spend all day looking for them. Couldn't find them.

So, I spent a lot of time alone there, playing with the chimps.

We became good friends.


Wade: We were back and forth throughout the trip between Neverland and the Hideout in Westwood.

But, you know, my mother being in a different room, and Michael and I sleeping in his bed.

The sexual contact continued every night we were together.

I guess it sort of became a routine, masturbating, the oral sex, both sides, and the touching, and the fondling, and the gyrating, and the kissing.

Me bending over with the masturbation, and the tongue and all that.

And then one of the kind of newer things that started to happen was he started to show me some p*rn.

Pretty graphic, heterosexual p*rn, um, you know, oral sex, full penetration, uh, a**l stuff.

It seemed like he liked it, that Michael liked it, so I wanted to like it.

It was the first time he showed me some video p*rn.

And this was, you know, full oral sex, and ejaculation in the mouth, on the face, all that stuff. Full graphic.

I remember that affecting me internally even more than the photographic p*rn.

I remember that feeling in my stomach being really heavy, like a nervousness.

I just didn't really know how to deal with it, you know?

So, it was...

again, like, him pulling back the curtain on this whole other universe, but this one wasn't so fun, you know?

I was seven, you know?

He just came across as a loving, caring, kind soul.


it was easy to believe that he was just that.

Wade: It was coming to... time for us to leave, to go back to Australia, and I was at the Hideout with Michael in Westwood.

Joy: And Michael said to me, "Will you leave Little One with me for a year?"

I was on board with this.

I wanted to. Are you kidding me?

Like, be able to live with him for a year?

That's like the most incredible idea I'd ever heard.

I was stunned, and said, "Absolutely not."

He said, you know, "I would do wonders for his career.

"I could work with him.

"We could do so much together. It would be absolutely wonderful for him to stay here with me."

I said, "Michael, he's my child. He's seven years old.

I am not gonna leave him with you."

And a sort of, like...

a tug of w*r started between Mom and Michael.

We went through this for a couple of hours, where I tried to explain to him that it wasn't going to happen.

And after it was all over, he looked at me and he said, "I always get what I want."

And I said, "Not this time."

I said, "I will share Wade with you, but I am not going to leave him with you."

Michael asked...

like, "Well, okay, then you've gotta let me...

"have him for, you know, "four or five more days, a few more days, "to prepare him to leave."

I remember at some point getting a phone call and, uh...

Mom saying, "Oh, we're gonna stay longer." You know?

And I was like, what the hell is going on?

You know, pretty...

kind of disturbing when your mom and brother just, you don't know when they're gonna come back.

He really amped up...

the dialogue and the lectures about...

being strong and being...

learning to shelve my feelings.

He always said that. "You gotta learn to shelve your feelings, so you're not vulnerable."

In hindsight, I know, I mean, just how much of my life, in every way shape or form, that affected, you know?

Hello, Wade.

Congratulations, Little One.

Today is your birthday.

I don't celebrate birthdays, of course, but I thought I would take this moment to say congratulations on the day that you were born, and in my opinion, you should spend this day with your mother and your father, who conceived you, and you should be giving them the presents, uh, and being thankful that they brought you into the world.

And the future is yours and you can do whatever you want.

So, congratulations.

I love you. Goodbye.

Wade: Things started to...

change with my father.

My consciousness was just so full with Michael that there was less and less of my attention and consciousness for my dad.

Joy: He enjoyed what Wade was doing. He loved it.

And I think he would've liked to have been more of a part of it, too, but I think I sort of pushed him out.

Wade was doing a lot in Australia, and I was more or less managing what he was doing there, and I enjoyed that.

And it just took us into a different world, and Dennis was sort of excluded from it.

So, it did affect the marriage.

Lorraine: Dennis was always there in the background, and he went to it as much as he could, but being in business, it was hard for him always to be away.

She put Wade first, taking him to places where he danced.

It was a big thing for her.

Wade: My mother and his relationship was changing.

Over the next year or so, he started having all sorts of, um...

I don't know, emotional trouble and anxieties.

And he was diagnosed with bipolar disorder.

I have memories of my dad fighting with my mom, and I remember my dad at one point saying, you know, "You're talking to lawyers, and you're trying to get out of here. I know you are."

- (music playing)

- Host: Wade J. Robson!


Joy: Wade had been working pretty regularly in Australia, but there was only just so far he could go there.

He could be the big fish in the small pond, but I felt if he was really going to succeed, he needed to move to the United States.

Wade: So, this was happening at the same time that my father's, kind of, mental and emotional health was really declining.

His mood being more unpredictable.

It's like he was just like drifting further and further away from me.

Shane: It kind of became like the Wade and Mom Show.

That's when I really noticed Dad starting to go downhill, you know, with his mental state.

She definitely was not the mom that I grew up with at that point.

She was very determined to go on this, this new life.

It wasn't so much about the family anymore.

You know, it was about...

getting over there, starting this new opportunity for...

for Wade, which, you know, in reality was opportunity for Mom as well.

And when I kind of look at things in perspective, it was probably Mom's chance, the easiest way for her to, maybe, get out of her marriage.

And I had a diary that had a...

just a quote for every day.

And it said something like, "Today is the first day of the rest of your life," something like that.

And suddenly I thought, you know what, I'm just gonna go.

I'm not gonna wait any longer.

Lorraine: Michael, he encouraged her to go over there.

Yes, it was his decision.

He made the arrangements for where they could stay when they got there. He did all that.

And, uh...

Yes, he was to blame.

He's to blame for a lot of things that happened in our life.

Chantal: I had a choice, but it was sort of obvious that I was going with my mom.

And I remember my dad just saying, "Please don't leave," to me.

(sniffles) And...

he said, "Please don't go. Stay with me." And I remember saying, "Dad, just don't ask me that." Like, "Dad, don't... don't make me choose." Like, that it was just obvious that I was going with Mom, you know?

Wade: Beyond whatever was going on with him ment*lly, almost his whole family was about to leave him.

I'm sure, for my father, it felt like, you know, there's no way...

(sniffles) we're ever coming back.

Shane: I used to have dreams or nightmares of my family dying.

And I remember going to Brisbane Airport.

I remember my... my grandmother, my Mom's mom, like, standing at the window.

She was just, like, moaning and crying.

Lorraine: I remember being at the airport with Dennis.

It was so sad to see them all going on the plane, knowing that they... we wouldn't just be able to...

pick up our bag, and go and visit them.

No. Yeah, it was sad.

Shane (crying): Dad was just...

I think he was crying, but he was just...

He wasn't really there.



Yeah, that was a tough day.

You know, they were excited. They were going off on...

on a big adventure, so...

Yeah, I guess that was really, like, the end of the family. Yeah.




Joy: I left my eldest son Shane, my husband, my parents, two brothers, cousins, big family.

And, funny, at the time, I really did not think about any of the long-term ramifications.

I was so caught up in everything.

I remember my father looking me in the eye at the airport, and he said, "Have you lost your mind?" And that has stayed with me for years, 'cause there's many times I look back and think, yes, I think I had.

Wade: You know, I definitely had some sort of...

idea in my head of the way... this was all gonna go down once we moved to Los Angeles, that it really was going to be life with Michael.

So, I remember being shocked when the first place we went to live was like in Oakwood Apartments, which is kind of like a part-time residence sort of thing.

And it was...

at least a week, maybe a couple of weeks, after we moved before I saw Michael.

And that was really hard for me.

Here I was, in this new place, in America, and in Los Angeles, but now it's like we were alone.

Joy: I knew straightaway that things were different.

First up, when we got there, they said that the Oakwood had not been paid for.

I needed to give them a credit card.

And I'm like, "No." They said, "Well, you have to give me a credit card till we can sort it out tonight." And that was unusual for them.

They usually had us pretty well looked after.

Michael had talked about bringing him to do the "Black or White" video.

And then they called and said, "We're going to rent you a car, so that you can drive yourself to the studios," which was unusual as well.

Um... And then, when we got to the studios to do this, then we realized why.

("Black or White" playing)

Wade: I believe the first time we saw each other after we moved was his "Black or White" music video, which I was gonna dance in.

That experience was really hard for me.

(music blaring)

Turn that noise off!

Wade: This was the first time I came up against the new friend, Macaulay Culkin.

Macaulay was where I was, you know, on my previous trips.

Right by Michael's side, every moment.

(door slams)

(glass shatters)


Wade: And now, I was kind of on the sideline, as far as...

being Michael's friend, you know, and being his favorite, and that was really confusing.

What did I do wrong?

Like, he and Michael had all of the connection and kind of secret things that Michael and I had before.

Like, I could recognize that.

So, there was definitely a lot of, there was jealousy from me. I mean, hurt, confusion.

Joy: It was very obvious to me that Macaulay had taken Wade's place in Michael's "best friend" category.

So, that was very hurtful, it broke Wade's heart.

But it made me realize that if things were gonna happen, we have to get busy and do it ourselves.

(kids shouting playfully)

James: By then, I wasn't really hanging around him much.

It was more like he would call every few months.

At Neverland, we were able to go up whenever we wanted.

And then we'd be able to go up, and they'd have all the cooks and everybody there.

So, it was like our sort of vacation home.

Thank you! Cool!

Brian! Thanks.

- Brian: Happy birthday!

- Thanks.

And at the same time, he started introducing alcohol.

Michael also had a place in Century City, near the Avenue of the Stars.

So, you'd go over for the weekend, and he'd buy a big jug of wine, and I remember getting really drunk.

I was falling over.

And he would put p*rn on, like, in the bathtub.

He had these little TVs, and you could watch...

you could watch p*rn wherever you wanted.

p*rn and candy, that was...


That's what he had.

It got more dirty sexual, rather than, like, friends who were, like, touching each other.

That was probably because I was getting to be a teenager.

Like, he wanted to do some a**l.

He put his finger... inside me, and I didn't like it at all.

Um... So, he kind of backed off on that.

I think I was just like, kind of wincing and...

I was asking him not to do it, but he did it, and he said, "Oh, you'll like it." But we continued with all the other stuff.

He was preparing me over a long period of time for other kids to enter.

He would say like, "You're gonna start seeing me "with so and so, and... that doesn't mean I don't love you." We went up for the weekend, and Michael showed up with another family and a young boy.

It reminded me of us.

My husband and I came in and said hi, and they were zipped-mouthed, just like we were.

I could tell they had been... had the talks we had.

"You don't talk to strangers.

Everybody wants to be your friend just to get to me." So, the people were very standoffish, and I thought, we're in Michael's home!

Jeez, they could be a little friendly.

James: There's one particular boy who sort of entered and replaced me.

And so, I saw him grow closer and closer to that boy, and I was... pushed out more and more.

And that was really difficult to handle.

There was like a lot of jealousy and hurt.

You're no longer... special.

One specific night that was really tough, and it was at Avenue of the Stars.

You know, spending the night there and the boy was there.

The boy would sleep in Michael's room, and then I would sleep downstairs on the sofa.

It was like being cast out.

And it was...

It was like a realization that, like, okay, it's...

I'm not number one.

And I just wanted to go home.

And so I cried and cried, and I cried out for my mom, and I just cried myself to sleep. So, it was like...

the first night it really h*t.

Michael was my, like, partner, and then he's gone?

And then, you're not close to anybody else, so it's like then, you're just alone.

And you can't talk to anybody about anything, so you just continue to be alone.

Wade: I would say, like, in that first year of living in LA, that I saw him maybe four to six times, either at his Century City apartment or back at Neverland.

The sexual stuff would happen every night.

So, every time that it was just he and I again, and the sexual stuff would happen again, like, it made me feel a little better.

It made me feel like that things were okay again, and things were back to normal, and that feeling didn't stay for long 'cause I would keep coming up against scenarios where there was another boy.

Crowd: We love Michael! We love Michael!

Newsman: They've been waiting for three days to see their hero, and when the moment came, it was the type of bizarre appearance you'd expect from a man they call Wacko Jacko.

The pop-star seemed to be playing hide-and-seek.


Joined by his traveling companion and nine-year-old cousin, he began throwing items to his admirers below.

Great joy from the -year-old multimillionaire as youngsters below scrapped for presents from their god.

During that Dangerous tour, when Michael took Brett Barnes on the tour with him...

Wade had asked to go on the tour, and Michael had told him no, he couldn't go because he wasn't allowed to take children on this tour.

And then he saw Brett Barnes with him on television.

(indistinct chatter)

Wade: I don't think he liked to mix us.

I mean, he liked to keep these relationships separate.

Remember it being particularly hard with Brett because...

I found out, and I knew, that he was Australian.

"Oh, it's a new Australian boy,"

I was, like, really feeling replaced.

(indistinct chatter)

Announcer: Please remain seated at all times.

Joy: Michael had told him that he would call him.

And he... that little boy would come home every day and sit on the couch, and wait for that phone call.

It just didn't come, he wasn't calling.

And it just broke my heart to see him waiting for that call.

Wade: All of the dreams and plans that Michael was selling me and my mother from...

you know, day one of that first trip.

This partnership we were gonna have didn't seem to be, like, something that was gonna really happen.

Joy: After a while, I realized there was a pattern.

Every months, there was a new boy in his life.
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