Previously on The West Wing:
Vinick is a terrific debater.
He doesn't need the debates, we do.
We're gonna get a deal on debates
soon enough, and on our terms.
It's a negotiating session
for presidential debates.
Vinick could kick Santos'
abortion-loving ass all over the stage.
Game over. Check, please.
He wants us to get into a mud-wrestling
match with Matt Santos?
Hope this works.
Vinick can live without debates.
We don't get them, we're toast.
A real debate on the issues...
...just you and me.
How's Sunday night?
Hey, good evening.
Well, we got a good audience.
Three minutes, senator.
This little girl's gone crazy.
Oh, I know that it takes a long time...
I have to go downstairs
for the last minute pre-game press spin.
- Bruno's gonna walk you to the stage.
- Yep.
Don't worry about getting
everything in in every answer.
We can fill in the blanks with the press
in the spin room afterwards.
Remember, two-minute answers
followed by one-minute rebuttals.
Moderator's option to allow
a -second rebuttal to a rebuttal...
...or you can move on.
- Stupid rules too.
Two minutes, one minute,
seconds. What...?
- What can you say in seconds?
- Santos negotiated to protect him...
- Why the hell did we agree to them?
- They protect you too.
No, they don't. They screw me up.
They make me feel stiff.
Just...
...be yourself.
Don't forget to smile.
I'm telling you, Santos is terrified
to go on that stage tonight...
You have no idea what this feels like.
"Terrified" doesn't begin
to describe it.
The worst thing is to struggle
with the moderator.
No, the worst is to forget
about everything I've come here to say...
...every debate point I ever memorized,
every word of my opening statement.
- You are gonna be great.
- I don't feel great.
- You've been through tougher than this.
- Like?
- Combat.
- Flashing yellow, you got seconds.
- Red light means...
- Let me guess.
Vinick will hide behind the rules. No
answer to how he'll pay for his tax cuts.
He'll run the clock out
on that one. You can too.
If you get in a jam, use a paragraph from
your stump speech to get to the red.
The rules are your friend, use them
so this doesn't become...
- A debate.
- Debate. Exactly.
Good evening, and welcome
to the first presidential debate...
...with the Republican Party's nominee,
California senator, Arnold Vinick...
...and the Democratic Party's nominee,
Texas congressman, Matthew Santos.
I'm Forrest Sawyer,
and I will moderate tonight's debate...
...following rules worked out
by representatives of the candidates.
Now, I've agreed
to enforce their rules.
Each candidate will have
a two-minute opening statement.
I will then ask a series of questions,
all of them chosen by me alone.
I have told no one what the subjects
or the questions will be.
For each question,
there will be a two-minute answer...
...followed by a one-minute rebuttal...
...with the possibility
of a -second extension...
...at my discretion.
A yellow light...
A yellow light will come on when
there are seconds left in an answer.
A flashing red means time's up...
...and if we need it,
we have a backup buzzer.
I think time's up on the rules, Forrest.
Well, there's a little more,
congressman.
Candidates may not
question each other.
And they will have two-minute
closing statements.
The last rule is for our audience
here in the hall:
Now that you have had your fun...
...they will remain silent
until the end of the debate...
...when we can all give democracy
a big round of applause.
And now, as determined
by the flip of a coin...
...the first opening statement
will be from Senator Vinick.
Thank you.
It is truly an honor to be here tonight.
I would...
You know, I've watched
every televised presidential debate...
...this country has ever had.
And every time I heard them
recite the rules, I always thought:
"That means they're not
gonna have a real debate."
When the greatest hero in the history
of my party, Abraham Lincoln...
...when he debated,
he didn't need any rules.
He wasn't afraid of a real debate.
I could do a two-minute version of my
"Sensible Solutions" stump speech...
...and I'm sure Congressman Santos has
a memorized opening statement ready.
And then we could...
We could go on with this ritual...
...and let rules control
how much you learn...
...about the next president
of the United States.
Or we could have a debate
Lincoln would be proud of.
We could junk the rules.
We could let our able and judicious
moderator ask questions.
We could forget whether each of us gets
the same number of seconds to speak.
We could have a real debate.
If that's all right with you, Matt.
According to the rules,
candidates may not...
No, no. Please.
You mean, like a senate debate?
Gonna filibuster me?
Grab the microphone for the whole hour?
No.
No, we tell the American people
what they need to hear.
No more, no less.
I suspect the audience
will reward brevity.
Okay.
Let's have a real debate.
Gentlemen, I just wanna be clear.
You both want to abandon the rules
your representatives negotiated...
...and rely on me to moderate
an open debate in a fair way?
Yes, that's what I'm suggesting.
- Let's do it.
- All right, then.
I'll follow the order determined
by the coin toss.
First question
goes to Senator Vinick.
Senator, the governors
of Arizona and New Mexico...
...have declared a state of emergency
on their Mexican borders...
...because of illegal immigration.
How would you secure
the Mexican border?
Enforcement first. That's my policy.
I would double the Border Patrol.
Not just increase it, double it.
We need to make a statement that says,
"We mean it this time."
That we're really cracking down
on illegal immigration.
We need that to be heard loud and clear
on the other side of the border...
...where everyone knows how easy it is
to get into this country.
I want everyone on the other side
to think about...
...how hard it is
to get into this country.
That's the kind of sensible solution you
can expect from a Vinick White House.
Congressman Santos.
Double the Border Patrol,
sounds good, sounds tough.
Why not triple it?
Why not triple it, senator?
- Are you proposing tripling...?
- You're the one...
...who's campaigning on
doubling the Patrol.
- Why not triple it?
- I'm proposing doubling the Patrol...
Oh, yeah, we heard that speech.
- We need enforcement first.
- No... Okay.
Why not triple the Border Patrol, sir?
- Lf we could find room in the budget...
- I don't know how you're gonna find...
- Please let him finish.
- Yeah.
No, I'm finished.
I don't know how you're going to find
room to double the Patrol...
...with the tax cut you're proposing.
Why not triple the Border Patrol?
I'll tell you why not.
Because we already did.
Since , we have tripled...
Not doubled.
We've tripled the Border Patrol
on the Mexican border.
Don't need me to tell you
it hasn't solved the problem.
- Lf we had more agents...
- Doubling the Patrol...
...means that percent of illegal
entries will get in instead of percent.
Don't let anyone tell you the border can
be secured by doubling the Border Patrol.
The problem of illegal immigration
is much bigger than the Border Patrol.
Which is why we passed
CAFTA this year.
- Central American Free Trade Agreement.
- CAFTA will not help...
It's a good deal for American consumers
and will create jobs in Central America.
And the more jobs
that are created there...
...the fewer people who will
come here looking for work.
- That won't work, senator.
- A vote for CAFTA...
...was a vote for our economy...
...and a vote against illegal immigration.
I'm proud to say
that I cast that vote in the Senate.
How did you vote on CAFTA,
congressman?
I don't think there's
anyone in the country...
...who doesn't know
how I voted on CAFTA, senator.
You've all heard it, right?
My most famous quote
of the campaign.
I voted for CAFTA before I voted
against it. Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it?
I voted for CAFTA
in the Ways and Means Committee...
...because it was a good bill.
Then special interests went to work...
...corporate lobbyists kept squeezing in
special provisions for their clients.
It wasn't a free-trade bill anymore.
It certainly wasn't a fair-trade bill.
- I voted against it.
- When was the last time...
...you voted for a perfect bill?
- I knew...
...that you would exploit
my voting record on CAFTA.
I didn't make the political choice here.
I made the right choice.
And if I had to do it over again,
I would vote exactly the same way.
I voted for CAFTA because it would help
people in those poor countries find jobs.
- We need...
- You cannot pretend...
...that trade agreements
are going to solve the problem.
Trade agreements are part of the solution,
but so is my guest-worker program.
Now, we have to face the fact
that we have at least million people...
...who have illegally
entered this country...
...but who are now putting in
an honest day's work.
And they're mostly doing jobs
that Americans don't wanna do.
We need to establish a legal system
for these workers.
Senator, where were you when
I introduced a guest-worker program...
...into the House six years ago?
Where were you, sir?
You just discovered the problem
this year, and I think we know why.
Congressman, are you suggesting
Senator Vinick has raised...
...Mexican border issues
in this campaign...
...because he's running
against a Latino candidate?
No.
Look, I have family who have lived
in Texas since it was Mexico.
I have other relatives
who have come here legally...
...and, yes, some
who have come here illegally.
I have lived this problem.
The senator talks about how easy
it is to cross the Rio Grande.
Tell that to the families
of the men, women and children...
...who have d*ed trying.
- I'm not saying it's not tragic.
- This is not a law-enforcement problem.
This is an economic problem.
If Mexico's economy
was as strong as Canada's...
...there wouldn't be a problem.
The president
cannot solve this problem.
You can't seal a -mile border.
Mexico has to solve it.
Mexico has to grow its economy,
provide enough jobs...
...so that it's not worth it
to try to cross into our borders illegally.
There's no other solution to this. Senator
Vinick is smart enough to know that.
And I think you are too.
Senator Vinick.
Senator Vinick.
Senator, I think it's fair to say
the centerpiece of your campaign...
...is your promise to cut taxes.
So could you tell us specifically, sir...
...how you would cut spending
to pay for those tax cuts?
What do you mean
"pay" for the tax cuts?
I mean, would you cut spending
in the same amount you cut taxes...
...in order
to balance the budget?
Liberals, who are opposed
to tax cuts anyway...
...always say you can't cut taxes
until you've cut spending.
I say we can lecture our children
about overspending...
...until we run out of breath...
...or we can just cut their allowance.
I'm a cut-the-allowance kind of parent.
Well, I'm a grandparent now.
I'm a little less strict.
Less strict than I used to be.
All right, but I'm going to cut
Congress's allowance.
And then I'm going to force them
to get control of spending...
...because if they don't...
...if they send me a budget
that's not balanced...
...I will use this pen to veto it.
Congressman Santos...
Congressman Santos...
Congressman Santos, your response.
Well, I hope everyone noticed that
the senator did not answer the question.
He didn't tell you
what spending he will cut.
Would you like to try that again?
I said I will balance the budget.
We've seen this game before.
See, we have a proven record
on Republican tax cuts.
First they cut taxes.
Then they never get around to cutting
spending, so they run up huge deficits...
...and leave a massive debt
for our children to pay.
If you elect me as president,
that is a game I won't play.
You know, Congressman Santos
is running a very brave campaign.
I have to give him that.
I have to give you credit for that.
He's actually promising
a tax increase...
...which is a brave thing to do because
the American people don't want it...
...and it's the wrong thing to do because
the American people don't want it.
But even his big tax increases
won't raise enough money...
...to pay for the big
spending increases he's promising.
So President Santos would have to do
exactly what he's promising not to do:
Run up huge deficits...
...and leave a massive debt
for our children and grandchildren to pay.
Wrong. I am going
to balance the budget.
Yes, I am in favor of tax increases,
but they won't affect you...
- That's what they always tell you.
...unless you make a million a year.
I'd like to propose to raise taxes
percent on incomes over a million.
I wanna raise taxes another percent
on incomes over million...
...and another percent on incomes
over a hundred million dollars.
Now, does that sound like cruel and
unusual punishment for the super rich?
- They're paying their share.
- They're not.
- They are.
- They're to pay percent...
...but with the loopholes
you've written into the tax code...
...they wind up paying percent,
less than I pay.
But you're not taking into account...
The richest of the rich, people who make
over a hundred million dollars a year...
...don't pay close to the tax rate
they're supposed to.
- That's what Senator Vinick calls fair?
- Gentlemen? Gentlemen?
I'd like an answer
to my original question on spending cuts.
Now, are either of you
prepared to specify...
...what cuts you would make
in order to balance the budget?
- Well, l...
- Okay, let's... Just as a hypothetical.
Let's accept the worst-case scenario...
...that neither of us will be able to pay
for everything we wanna do as president.
Then your choice is between a
Republican who can't pay for tax cuts...
...or a Democrat who can't pay
for spending increases...
...even after raising taxes.
I think the American people
know how to make that choice.
Congressman Santos.
Congressman, throughout this campaign,
you've said you wanna be...
...the "education president."
What does that mean? What role should
the government play in education?
Level the playing field.
Help close the gap between
Beverly Hills High and Harlem High.
We've got to change a system...
...that says the quality of your education
depends on where you live.
Throw money at the problem.
That's the Democratic Party way.
You wanna throw money at the border.
You think solving...
Before you vote for someone
who thinks...
...you can buy higher test scores
for poor students, know this:
The highest spending
public-school system in the country...
...has the lowest test scores.
Washington, D.C.
Spends more than every state:
Fifteen thousand dollars per pupil
and nothing to show for it.
I am not talking about
just throwing money at the problem.
I am talking about supporting
the new approaches...
...that have already succeeded
in some school districts.
Now, the president can spread
those good ideas around the country...
...and make sure every student
gets the chance he or she deserves.
Except the chance
to go to a private school.
The Republican Congress passed
a federally-funded voucher program...
...for Washington, D.C.
To help poor students...
...who can't go to private schools.
Well, we got more applications
than we could handle.
Poor minority parents...
...desperately wanna get their kids
out of failing public schools...
...but the Democrats won't let them.
- Right. The big, bad Democrats...
...don't wanna take money from
public schools to give to private schools.
What's next? Taking money
from police departments...
...to give to private security guards?
The federal government
contributes about every seven cents...
...from each dollar
that's spent on public schools.
Now, if you enact every bit
of the Santos education plan...
...that will go up to eight cents.
Do you really think you get to call
yourself the "education president"...
...if you're only gonna address
percent of the education budget?
The federal share is higher than that...
...if you take into account
the Head Start program.
I understand why you don't include
Head Start in the total...
...since you voted against it.
- Head Start doesn't work.
I wish Head Start did work,
but it doesn't.
By grade four and five...
...Head Start graduates
do no better academically...
...than their equally poor classmates
who didn't attend Head Start.
So, yes,
I have voted against expansions...
...of a six-billion-dollar program
that's not raising achievement.
But Head Start does raise scores in the
early years, and then we let them slip.
Our whole school system
has been slipping now for years...
...in our ranking with other countries
in science and math achievement.
We've gotta find a way
to turn that around.
If we provide
school systems and teachers...
...with everything they need
and the flexibility to experiment...
...with fresh, new approaches...
...I think American students
can be number one...
...in math and science achievement
in years.
- That's a lie.
- You're the liar!
Please. Ladies and gentlemen...
...I think we should impose
the original rule on the audience.
I'm going to ask you to please remain
silent for the remainder of the debate.
And Senator Vinick... Senator Vinick...
...we've managed to maintain
a civil tone throughout...
...and unless we can
continue to do that...
...I'm going to impose the original rules
on the candidates as well.
It's a lie that every president,
Democrat and Republican...
...has been telling for years:
"We're gonna be number one
in years."
Go ahead, Google it right now.
I'm not saying that every president
knew it was a lie when he said it...
...or that Congressman Santos
knows it's not true, but I do.
So let me tell you what our goals
should be, our realistic goals.
First of all, let's stop pretending that
everyone can or should go to college.
Every airline needs
high-paid mechanics.
None of them have to go to college.
There are plumbers in the country
who make a better living than dentists.
Now, I'm not talking
about lowering our ambitions...
...I'm talking about
targeting our ambitions correctly.
It's true, some other countries are doing
better academically than they used to.
But we still have
the best scientists in the world...
...the best doctors, the best...
By far, the most Nobel Prizes.
And if a kid does well
in one of those foreign high schools...
...guess where he or she
wants to go to college.
That's right, Harvard, Stanford,
Caltech, University of Texas...
...and a hundred other
American universities...
...that are better than anything
they have in their countries.
Now, if we're going to have
a practical approach to education...
...we're going to have to admit
that not everyone can go to MIT.
But most of the kids who do go to MIT
come from American public schools.
So give up on Head Start,
just give up on early education...
...and then give up
on those kids who don't test well.
- "They'll find their way."
- I'm not gonna give up...
You haven't proposed a single thing
that will make them better.
Not one idea.
I'm going to keep trying new ideas.
Some of them might work,
some might not.
And I will level with you about that.
Keep the good ideas,
get rid of the bad.
And I will not let a day go by
in the White House...
...where I don't work hard
to try to improve our public schools.
In fact, I'm going to stake
my presidency on that.
Right here, right now.
And if in four years...
...you don't feel I've improved
public education in this country...
...then do not vote for my re-election.
Gentlemen...
Gentlemen...
Gentlemen, I would like
to turn to health care.
Senator, there are now
million Americans...
...who have no health insurance at all.
What can the government do
to make health care affordable for them?
Make it tax deductible. Instantly cuts
the price by as much as percent.
Happens to be one of the items
in my cut package.
You really think tax cuts are the answer
for everything.
- Lf it's deductible...
- It won't help at all.
The uninsured
are in the -percent tax bracket...
...not in the -percent bracket.
So your deduction would only give them
a -percent discount.
So then a $ , policy
would cost $ .
Does that sound like something
a mother of three...
...making $ , a year can afford?
So after you've raised taxes...
...and you've enacted every bit
of the Santos health-care plan...
...then all the health-care problems
in America will be solved, right?
Everyone will have health insurance,
be happy?
It will move us toward
universal health coverage...
Toward universal coverage?
So it won't cover the million...
It will be a very large first step
toward universal coverage...
First step. So after you've enacted the
plan that you're proposing here tonight...
...how many people will that leave
without health insurance?
The first stage of my plan
would cover million people.
- Fifteen million?
- Yes, million...
...which represents the biggest
increase in health coverage...
...the government has ever provided.
- After raising taxes...
...and creating a massive
new bureaucracy...
...to run a complex government
health-insurance program...
...the Santos health plan...
...will leave million people
without health insurance.
Do you really think that Congress
is gonna let you do all that...
...and not even cover
half the problem?
To tell you the truth, I'm not crazy
about my health-care plan either.
It's what I think
can get through Congress.
My ideal plan? Very simple:
Just delete the words "over "
from the Medicare statute.
Wait... No, wait. Wait, excuse me.
You wanna put everyone
in the country on Medicare?
Why not? You wanna start
on the socialized-medicine rap now?
- For starters.
- Never going to happen...
...because Senator Vinick and...
- Can they hear me?
- No, sir. No, sir.
- Can I?
- No, no, no.
Senator Vinick and the insurance
companies will never let it happen.
But if you all had an option,
an option...
...of using Medicare,
you could save a lot of money.
Private health insurance companies...
...they spend about percent
of your money...
...on administrative costs,
on paperwork.
Do you know how much Medicare
spends on administrative costs?
- Like to guess?
- Thirty-five percent.
- Thirty-five percent.
- Forty percent.
Forty percent.
Anyone wanna go higher?
- Forty-five.
- Yeah, you see...
...you think it would be higher
than private companies, right?
A massive government bureaucracy...
...can't be more efficient
than private companies.
Republicans have been
telling you that forever.
Two. Two percent.
Medicare's administrative costs
are percent.
That's percent lower than private
health-insurance companies and HMOs.
The best kept secret in this country...
...is that Medicare is the most efficient
health-care system in the world.
If you had the option
of choosing Medicare...
...instead of insurance companies...
...you would save big money,
at least percent.
That's crazy.
Medicare taxes would skyrocket.
Yes, the Medicare tax
would have to go up...
...but it would still be lower than your
present health-care insurance premiums.
I don't know about you,
but if you give me a choice...
...between something called a premium
and something called a tax...
...my question is: Which one's cheaper?
- I don't know where to begin.
- To force everyone into a program...
- I wouldn't force anyone...
...I would just give them the option.
See what happens when the HMOs have
to compete with an efficient system...
...that allows you to choose your doctor
and make your health-care decisions.
Finished? If you have anything
sensible to say about health care...
Coming from a guy
who has no plan at all...
...who has spent a career saying,
"No, no, no"...
...to every health-care reform
that has ever come to Congress...
Do you have another one
of these microphones?
You gentlemen aren't going
to go out in the audience, are you?
Okay, let me leave it at this:
I am opposed to Congressman Santos'
compromise plan and to his dream plan.
And I pledge to you, here tonight,
I will never raise the Medicare tax.
- Not one penny.
- Senator, you're on Medicare, right?
I'm on the Senate health-care plan.
And you use Medicare
as a supplement to that plan.
- I haven't really...
- Medicare is good enough for him...
...but it's not good enough for us?
I'm just saying that
if we could join Medicare...
...we could have a much cheaper,
much more efficient health-care system.
Let me raise a related issue,
if I possibly could...
...and that is, prescription dr*gs,
whose prices have been going up...
...at more than twice
the rate of inflation.
So do you favor reimporting
American dr*gs from Canada...
...where they are much cheaper?
You know why Canadian dr*gs
are cheaper?
Why dr*gs are cheaper up there?
Because the government
controls the price.
You know how many life-saving dr*gs
are invented in Canada?
None. Because the government
controls the price...
Canadian laboratories have helped
to create important dr*gs.
Nothing like the miraculous dr*gs...
...that the American industry
has given to the world.
"Given to the world"? I guess you
haven't seen their price lists lately.
Not long ago, if you were HIV-positive
in this country...
...you were marked for death.
Not anymore.
And that's thanks to
the American pharmaceutical companies.
In the s, the most common cause
of surgery was for ulcers.
Now, you get an ulcer, you take a pill.
Is it an expensive pill? Yes.
Yeah, a dollar seems like
a lot to pay for a pill.
But how does a dollar a day sound
compared to a $ , surgery bill?
So are prescription dr*gs expensive?
Yes.
Do they save us
from getting hit with...
...much more expensive
hospital bills? Yes.
Do they save lives? Yes.
American pharmaceutical companies
save us money and they save lives...
...and the Democrats
can't stop attacking them.
Why should
the pharmaceutical industry...
...get protection that no other
American industry gets?
We can buy anything else from Canada,
why not dr*gs?
- Canadian price controls are not fair to...
- They're not fair?
Is it fair that AIDS victims
have been dying in Africa...
...because drug companies
have been protecting their profits?
Drug makers have lowered
their prices in Africa.
Only after we have pushed them.
And they're still not low enough to get
to every person who really needs them.
People are not dying in Africa
because of drug companies.
They're dying because
they don't have clean water...
...because they don't have a basic
infrastructure for a health-care system...
...and because they have
corrupt leaders...
...who frequently prevent our help from
getting to the sick people who need it.
Yes, health-care delivery
in Africa is weak...
...which is why we have to provide
full-scale debt relief for those countries...
...so that they can concentrate on
building up their basic infrastructure...
...instead of the burden
of repaying loans to rich countries.
Debt relief's a nice idea,
but it won't help.
It'll just formalize the reality...
...that poor countries
can never repay their loans.
Are you saying that you're opposed to
debt relief for impoverished countries?
We should forgive the debts, but
that's not gonna help those countries.
Okay, what will?
Tax cuts.
Some African tax rates
are the highest in the world.
In Tanzania
the -percent rate kicks in...
...at $ of income.
They have a percent value-added tax
that gets added to everything you buy.
Those high tax rates make it impossible
to build capital in those countries...
...so nothing gets built, not factories,
not roads, not anything.
Poor African countries have
the lowest-wage workers in the world...
...and yet a company like Nike,
for instance...
...can't put a factory
in one of those countries...
...because of the oppressive tax rates.
Taxes have k*lled any possibility
of economic development.
They've k*lled any hope of
these countries helping themselves.
Helping themselves.
And that leaves them...
...completely at the mercy
of charity and loans.
And here...
Here's the worst part. You know why
those countries have such high tax rates?
Because of us.
To show us that they can raise
enough money to pay back their loans.
But taxes can't raise any money
if they k*ll the economies.
So it turns out...
...that the tragic unintended
consequence of our good intentions...
...toward Africa, our kindness...
...is that we have encouraged
those countries to lock themselves...
...into a gruesome
economic depression.
If we don't urge those countries
to cut their tax rates...
...they will never
grow their economies.
People will live lifetimes
of unemployment.
Disease will be rampant.
Poverty will be permanent...
...and children will be hungry.
And our charity will never be enough.
Never.
Gentlemen, I'd like to come to
the question of jobs right here at home.
Congressman,
an awful lot of people are afraid...
...that their jobs are gonna be
outsourced or they're gonna be lost...
...in another round of belt tightening
at their companies.
So, what will you do
to increase job security?
We already have a program called...
...the Trade Adjustment
Assistance Program...
...which provides job retraining
to those workers...
...who've lost their jobs
to foreign trade.
As president, I would add to that...
...any workers who lose their jobs
to outsourcing.
My economic program...
...and my plan to keep
American workers competitive...
...will keep on building on President
Bartlet's extraordinary job record...
...and I think it'll keep us on track...
...to create a million jobs by the end
of my first term of presidency.
- A million jobs?
- That's right.
How many jobs would you create
in your first term?
None.
In fact, I'll cut jobs.
I will reduce the number of jobs
in the federal government.
I know I am supposed to tell you
that my tax cuts...
...will stimulate the economy
and therefore create jobs.
Entrepreneurs create jobs.
Business creates jobs.
The president's job
is to get out of the way.
Do you want a president
who will get out of their way...
...when executives are plundering
a company like Enron?
I'll go after corporate criminals.
My running mate, Ray Sullivan...
...was very tough on white-collar crime
when he was a prosecutor.
And my attorney general
will be just as tough.
Do you want a president
who will get out of the way...
...when airline executives are putting
their companies up to bankruptcy...
...so that they can avoid
pension responsibilities...
...to the workers who have given
their lives to these companies?
Some of our major and older airlines...
...are having trouble meeting
their huge pension obligations...
...at the very same time that they're
under intense, intense competition...
...from low-cost airlines that are so new
they don't yet have pensions to pay.
Now, an unthinking liberal
will describe the airline bankruptcies...
...as the evil capitalists
screwing the worker...
I don't think you should
put words in my mouth.
No, I know you didn't say it.
You're not an unthinking liberal. Are you?
I know you like to use
that word "liberal" as if it were a crime.
No, I'm sorry.
I shouldn't have used that word.
I know Democrats think liberal
is a bad word.
So bad you had to change it,
didn't you?
What do you call yourselves,
"progressives"?
It's true, Republicans have tried
to turn "liberal" into a bad word.
Well, liberals ended sl*very
in this country.
A Republican president ended sl*very.
Yes, a liberal Republican.
What happened to them?
They got run out of your party.
What did liberals do that was
so offensive to the Republican Party?
I'll tell you what they did.
Liberals got women the right to vote.
Liberals got African-Americans
the right to vote.
Liberals created Social Security...
...and lifted millions of elderly people
out of poverty.
Liberals ended segregation.
Liberals passed the Civil Rights Act,
the Voting Rights Act.
Liberals created Medicare.
Liberals passed the Clean Air Act,
the Clean Water Act.
What did conservatives do?
They opposed every one
of those programs. Every one.
So when you try to hurl
that word "liberal" at my feet...
...as if it were dirty,
something to run away from...
...something that I'm ashamed of,
it won't work.
Because I will pick up that label,
and I will wear it as a badge of honor.
It is...
Please.
It is, I believe,
a Republican governor...
...who has imposed a moratorium
on the death penalty in Illinois.
And so, congressman,
would you favor a moratorium...
...on the federal death penalty.
- Yes.
- That's it?
- That's it.
Okay. Senator?
No.
That's it?
- I think we've covered that one.
- All right, sir.
Senator Vinick, let me try g*n control.
Do we need more of it?
No, the Constitution gives us
the right to bear arms.
It's not up to the president to choose...
...which law-abiding citizens
the Constitution applies to.
- Congressman Santos?
- Forget about more g*n control.
What we need is b*llet control.
That's right. There are at least
, , g*ns in this country.
I own three of them.
We cannot control the supply of g*ns...
...but we can control
the supply of amm*nit*on.
Buying b*ll*ts shouldn't be easier
than buying a plane ticket.
We should license the purchase
of amm*nit*on.
There should be a clear record...
...an ID record,
of every purchase of handgun a*mo.
In the st century,
homicide detectives...
...should be able to trace
every fired b*llet...
...back to the buyer in minutes.
- Gentlemen, let's turn to energy.
We have seen record-high
gasoline prices this year.
Is this a glimpse of an even worse future
if we don't adopt a policy...
...that allows us to meet
our energy needs...
...at reasonable prices?
Congressman?
Well, obviously, it is time for us
to get really serious...
...about developing
alternative energy sources...
...and stop letting the oil companies
dictate our energy policy...
...while racking up profits.
- There you go, the Democratic line.
att*ck big business,
att*ck the oil companies...
- I'm not attacking them.
- Yes, you are.
I understand that the oil companies...
...have given a lot of money
to your campaign...
So I'm their puppet?
Is that what you're saying?
- They own me?
- Let's get back to...
He doesn't get to smear me
and then move on.
- I didn't smear you...
- That's what you're doing.
- Let's just take a breath if we could...
- No, let's talk about the money.
He raised it.
I think I have a right to respond.
All right, sir, go ahead.
I've disclosed the name of every one
of the , people...
...who have contributed
to my campaign.
There are no secrets about
where my campaign money comes from.
Now, some of my contributors
work for oil companies.
Liberals want you to think that's evil.
They want you to think
you can't be a good American...
...if you work for an oil company.
I can remember when people
were condemned in this country...
...for what they thought.
Condemned for
their political positions.
Liberals fought the noble fight
against that witch-hunt.
Liberals said that was un-American,
and they were right.
Now liberals wanna condemn people
because of where they work.
I've got relatives working
all over the oil fields of Texas.
I am just saying that
your positions on energy, senator...
...are exactly what
oil companies wanna hear...
...which is why they've given
so much money to you.
And your positions on spending,
on creating more government jobs...
...they're exactly what the public
employee unions wanna hear...
...and that's why they've
poured money into your campaign.
Talk about conflict of interest.
- Throwing cheap accusations around...
- I'm gonna have to stop it there...
Senator!
- Now...
- I'm sorry.
Unless you're prepared to prove...
...not just accuse,
but prove with facts...
...that your opponent is influenced
by campaign contributions...
...let's agree to move on.
Congressman Santos, you said...
...that we have to reduce
dependence on foreign oil.
So why not agree to drill in Alaska's
Arctic National Wildlife Refuge?
Because we cannot drill our way
to energy independence.
There's only about a year's worth of oil
underneath there.
I don't think that's worth disrupting
a million years of ecological balance...
...in a unique
and spectacular wilderness.
That ecosystem is much more valuable
than the oil that's underneath it.
The pathway to a better,
more sustainable energy future...
...does not go through
the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.
- Senator?
- A year's worth of oil?
That sounds like a lot to me.
There could be more there.
There could be much more.
I mean, we'll never know
until we get in there and start drilling.
Now, I'm sure it's a beautiful place.
Have you ever been there?
- No.
- No, I haven't either. Have you? Anyone?
Clap if you've been
to the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.
See? And that's about how many people
are ever going to go to ANWR: None.
Well, maybe a few very rich people
with a private airplane...
...could get up there in the summer
and snap some pictures.
This isn't the Grand Canyon
we're talking about here.
How many people
have been to the Grand Canyon?
If they discovered big oil reserves
at the Grand Canyon...
...I'd never let them drill there...
...because that's our most magnificent
natural monument...
...and because real people
get to go there.
They get to see it,
they get to touch it...
...they get to experience it
in all its glory.
Now, we're talking about a country
that has oil wells...
...within sight of the beautiful beaches
of Santa Barbara.
Oil wells within sight
of every Texas beach.
There are thousands of operating
oil wells in the city of Los Angeles.
I saw an oil well in the parking lot
of a McDonald's...
...in Long Beach, just the other day.
The Democrats are saying we can't
put oil wells in a place so remote...
...that only animals will see them?
I wish we could put
all our oil wells there...
...where no one will ever see them.
Congressman...
Congressman...
There are other approaches.
Would you support...
...building nuclear power plants...
...to reduce our dependence
on foreign energy sources?
No. No, we still haven't...
We still have not figured out what to do
with the radioactive waste...
...from plants we already have.
- Nuclear power is a completely safe...
...dependable energy source.
- Of course we should build more.
- Safe?
I don't wanna be an alarmist here,
but there are plenty of safety concerns.
That's why we stopped
building them.
The government
should be supporting...
...the development
of alternative energy sources...
...and all of the new technologies
like solar power, wind power...
...and all of the other new,
safer alternatives to nuclear power.
How about that, senator?
Government support
of alternative energy sources.
I don't trust politicians to choose
the right new energy sources.
I believe in the free market.
The government didn't switch us
from whale oil...
...to the oil found under the ground.
The market did that.
The government didn't make the Prius
the hottest selling car in Hollywood.
That was the market that did that.
You know, in L.A. Now, the coolest
thing you can drive is a hybrid.
Well, if the free market can do that
in the most car-crazed culture on Earth...
...then I trust the free market
to solve our energy problems.
You know... You know...
...the market has the power
to change the way we think...
...to change what we want.
The government can't do that.
That's why the market
has always been...
...a better problem solver
than the government.
- And it always will be.
- While you're trusting the market...
...we're burning fossil fuels
more and more every day.
Global warming is melting
the polar icecaps.
Same people who told you
we'd run out of oil...
...by the end of the century...
...are scaring us with warming theories...
- Theories?
Yeah, global-warming theories.
That's all it is.
You don't think that there is
a consensus going about...
...that global warming
is melting the polar icecaps?
An increase of one degree in the Earth's
temperature in the last years.
- Gentlemen.
- You don't understand.
- Gentleman! Gentleman!
- Absolutely, l...
We're running short of time...
...and I would like to ask
one final question on energy.
We'll be dependent on foreign
energy sources for some time.
So, what can you do to assure...
...a dependable supply of oil?
Congressman?
Well, let me start by saying
what I would not do...
...because it is the most important part
of my energy policy.
- I will never go to w*r for oil. Never.
- Please.
Please.
And I would like to invite Senator Vinick
to join me in that pledge.
Ladies and gentlemen...
Ladies and gentlemen, would you like to
listen to yourselves applaud...
...or listen to the candidates speak?
Please. Senator?
It's ridiculous to suggest...
...that we would ever have to go to w*r
to assure our oil supply.
Oil is a commodity.
It's traded on a world market.
You don't have to sh**t anyone
to get it, you just have to pay for it.
And by the way, you know... All right.
Do you know who our
biggest supplier of foreign oil is?
- Saudi Arabia!
- No, no. Wrong.
Canada.
So let's stop the hysterical talk
about the evils of foreign oil.
If it's ridiculous to even think of going
to w*r for oil, then join me in my pledge.
No. That'd be like
going to w*r for sugar.
Do you wanna
take a pledge against that too?
You know, the oil-exporting companies...
The countries...
The countries who export oil,
they have to sell it to survive.
They need us to buy it. They couldn't
cut us off if they wanted to.
Will you join me
in the pledge, senator?
I will not demean the presidency...
...by taking any pledge
other than the oath of office.
Gentlemen, we have just
a very few minutes left.
Now, would you like to use that
for your closing statements?
- Yes.
- All right, then.
According to the coin toss,
the first statement...
...is from Congressman Santos.
Well, Senator Vinick was eager
to take a pledge about taxes...
...but taking a pledge
about anything else...
...is beneath the dignity
of the presidency.
A president has to lead.
He has to actively
head off problems...
...not just hope the market
will figure out everything.
It's the free market
that Senator Vinick trusts so much...
...that has left million people
without health insurance.
To his credit, the senator's very honest
about having no health-care plan...
...no education plan, no jobs plan,
no energy plan.
All he has is a tax plan.
After he cuts taxes, what's he going
to do for the next four years?
Tax cuts...
Tax cuts are not a magic wand...
...that you can wave
at every problem.
Senator Vinick was very quick
to att*ck my plans.
But the presidency is about more
than saying, "No, no, no."
You have to say yes to something.
You have to do something.
We don't have time
for me to remind you...
...of every policy difference
you've heard tonight.
But when you go to work tomorrow...
...and you're talking
about this debate...
...talk about the qualities
that you want in a president...
...the leadership qualities.
Ask yourselves,
"Is Matt Santos the kind of guy...
...who's going to give up on promises
that he's made to you...
...because it's gonna be too tough
to get them done?"
Talk about what it was like
for Matt Santos...
...to go from where he was baptized,
years ago, in San Antonio...
...to where he's standing tonight.
Ask yourselves what it takes
to do that.
And then ask yourselves
if you're ready...
...to give Matt Santos
the presidency of the United States.
You know, you've seen the stories
in newspapers.
All over the world, they're asking:
"Is America ready
for a Latino president?"
I never asked that question.
I never asked if Annapolis was ready
for a Latino midshipman.
I never asked if the Marines
were ready for a Latino fighter pilot.
I didn't have to ask.
I just had to prove that I was ready...
...that I could get the job done.
I am asking for your vote now...
...because I know
I am ready to do the job.
I thank you.
Senator Vinick,
your closing statement.
First, I wanna thank Matt
for agreeing to drop the rules...
...and letting us have
a real debate tonight.
And what you've heard...
...over and above the many
important policy differences...
...were different philosophies
of government.
You know, I believe both of us
want what's best for this country.
We just have different ideas
about how to get there.
I think it's fair to say that Matt has more
confidence in government than I do.
I have more confidence in freedom.
Your freedom.
Your freedom
to choose your child's school.
Your freedom to choose the car or truck
that's right for you and your family.
Your freedom to save or spend
your hard-earned money...
...instead of having the government
spend it for you.
No, you see, I'm...
I'm not anti-government.
I just don't want any more government
than we can afford.
We don't want government doing things
it doesn't know how to do...
...doing things the private sector
does better...
...or throwing more money
at failed programs.
Because that's exactly what makes
people lose faith in government.
And all of us, Democrats, Republicans,
liberals, conservatives...
...we all want a government
we can believe in.
We want a government
that doesn't make false promises...
...a government
that doesn't overreach...
...that doesn't take on
more than it can handle.
An efficient, effective,
honest government.
That's what the Founding Fathers
created, that's what they wanted for us.
The choice in this election
comes down to this:
Do we want more government...
...or do we wanna
get control of government?
To govern is to choose...
...and the choices are never easy.
There are lobbies that will fight
every choice you make.
They're ready to call you names the
second you make a choice they don't like.
You heard that heckler
go after me here tonight.
You have to be tough
to stand up to that.
But being tough won't help you
make the right choice.
That takes experience
and mature judgment.
That's what the presidency needs now,
more than ever.
And that's why I ask you
to give me your vote...
...so that I can give you
the government you were promised...
...by the Founding Fathers.
Thank you very much.
Senator Vinick...
Senator Vinick, Congressman Santos,
our thanks to you both.
Ladies and gentlemen,
that is our debate.
Thank you for watching.
Good night.
Thank you. Thank you.
Hey, you little guys!
Hey!