02x90 - Beyond the Reasons

[bunniefuu]

Reasons Why has been a
catalyst for conversation

ever since its expl*sive debut.

Centering on the aftermath
of Hannah Baker's su1c1de,

the series confronts issues that
young adults face in real life.

Up next, we've reunited the show's cast,

writers, producers, and various experts

to break down the themes, characters,
and storylines of season ,

along with real fans.

Since day one, we've
heard from so many of you

who have been touched and
affected by this series.

Parents, educators, and young
adults have begun a new dialogue

prompting many of you to
share your own struggles

for the very first time.

If you or someone that
you know needs help,

please go to ReasonsWhy.info
to find local resources.

Thank you for joining
this important discussion.

And be warned, all of the
season spoilers are just ahead

- as we go Beyond The Reasons.
- [APPLAUSE]

[WELTEROTH] Up first, we discuss
the theme of intervention.

Social pressures deeply
affect every teenager.

What the f*ck is wrong with you?

[WELTEROTH] In season ,
Clay and Tony find Justin

living on the streets,
addicted to heroin,

haunted by the role he played
in Jessica's sexual as*ault.

She f*cking hates me, okay?

No, she doesn't. She
wants you to come back.

They intervene once again when
Tyler Down, a victim of bullying,

social isolation, and sexual
as*ault, turns, in his darkest moment,

to the most terrifying
act of v*olence possible.

[g*n COCKS]

I don't want you to die.

- Welcome, everyone.
- [SIGHS] Thanks.

For our first panel, we are joined
by Miles Heizer, Dylan Minnette,

Christian Navarro, executive
producer Brian Yorkey,

series writer Nic Sheff,

and series consultant
Dr. Rebecca Hedrick.

Thank you all for being here.

We have a lot to unpack
with this first topic.

Tyler's storyline might be
the most frightening thing

that we have seen yet on this show,

but it is so important
because we wanna understand

acts of v*olence and
really where they come from.

Go home.

No, no. I...

Don't... don't do this Tyler.

There's nothing else I can do.

[WELTEROTH] Clay steps in

as Tyler is about to make
a life-altering decision.

So, Dylan, what do you
think made him intervene?

Clay sees a lot of himself
in Tyler, and vice versa,

because I think they both feel
like the world is out to get them,

that they both can't find happiness.

And I think that he
does understand the pain

that Tyler would be going through,

I think is why he immediately
tries to jump to action.

So, Dr. Hedrick, what Clay did
was actually really dangerous.

His intentions were good, as always,

but what were some better
choices that he could have made

in that same situation?

So, yeah, the safest
choice would've been to...

um, go behind the doors,

and lock himself in with
the rest of the kids,

and help everybody get to safety,

to hide in closets, or behind objects,

and make sure that
someone has called .

Certainly, we would never advise anyone

who's exposed to an active sh**t

to confront them, even
if it's a loved one.

- [WELTEROTH] Mm-hmm.
- We would advise to get away.

Mm-hmm. So, Christian,

your character, Tony, plays such
a pivotal role in this moment.

So, despite Tony's probation,
he helps Clay save Tyler.

Why is Tony so willing to risk
his own life and his freedom

to intervene here?

Tony is made up of...

Certainly, a part of his personality
is this moral sense of justice.

And he finds in Clay someone who has,

possibly, a greater sense of justice,

and a greater sense of morality,

and someone who is willing to act on it.

Tony is quick to jump to
action simply because Clay asks.

- And it's the right thing to do.
- [WELTEROTH] All right.

So, after Tyler's first
awful day back at school,

we see his mom come in and check on him,

and ask him how his first day was.

- How was the first day back?
- Good.

It was good. It was, um...

like I had to adjust to
everything, but it was great.

He doesn't tell her what
he has just been through.

- Why is that?
- Tyler is a victim of sexual as*ault,

and I think that in many ways

it's even harder for a young man, um,

who's been violated in
that way to admit it.

And I think at the point
that Tyler's mom comes in

and asks him how his day was,

he doesn't have the slightest ability

to begin to tell her
what's really wrong.

That doesn't even seem an option to him.

There's a statistic that one in six
men have been sexually assaulted,

and there's a really
great website, in .org,

that has a lot of
resources for male victims.

I think it's much
harder for male victims

because, as Brian was saying, it's
just... it's a lot more difficult

for boys and men to talk
about being the victim,

because they have the same
shame and guilt and fear

that women and girls
have, who are victims,

but it also brings into question

their own sense of
masculinity and manhood,

and they're supposed
to be strong protectors,

and, um, it makes them
question everything.

It's important to remind ourselves
that most crimes of sexual as*ault

are not sex crimes,
they're crimes of v*olence.

We've found that this
kind of thing happens

in high schools across America,

particularly with athletes
violating other students

with mop handles and pool cues.

And there's... almost
at epidemic levels.

It's not something
that's reported often.

Male-on-male sexual as*ault is...
is ridiculously underreported.

Men don't like to talk about it.

It's an incredibly difficult
thing to talk about.

People are terrified to open
up about those kinds of things.

And I've had people open up to me

about similar situations
happening to them

and you can see the, like,

the pain and almost
shame that they experience

talking about something that they
should have no shame talking about.

That was not their doing.
They had nothing to do with it.

And I think that if it can open
up that conversation for someone,

I think that's really valuable.

And I hope that talking about
it can allow that for people.

[WELTEROTH] Mm-hmm.

So, Brian, what made you decide to
sh**t Tyler's sexual as*ault scene

in such a graphic way?

It was important for us to
try to bring the audience

over to Tyler's side a little bit.

There's a concept
called "radical empathy"

which is, um, essentially
the exercise or the attempt

to empathize with someone completely,

and someone who is
completely different from you.

And as brutal as that scene is to watch,

I defy anybody to watch it

- and not feel pain for Tyler.
- Mm-hmm.

So whereas previously
you may have been able

to distance yourself from
him and say he's a loner,

he's a peeping Tom, he's a nerd,

in that moment, you are right
there with him and feeling pain.

And from that moment on,
it's impossible to forget

- that you shared humanity with him.
- Yeah.

There's... [CLEARS THROAT]

I mean, there's no way to prepare
yourself for that kind of scene.

Um... and...

You know, it's... I'm
at a loss for words,

'cause it was extremely
difficult for me to watch

and, um, and I knew it was coming.

So, I... You know, I can't...

I'm sure it's gonna affect
people in different ways.

And I think that it's... it's...

No matter what the circumstance,
no matter who it is, um,

it's an extremely
painful thing to watch.

You don't want it to happen to anyone,

or I hope you wouldn't
want it to happen to anyone.

The most heartbreaking
component of that scene, for me,

is how hard he's trying to implement
all of the new tools he has,

and to really bridge a gap between
himself and this antagonist.

And, I mean, that to me more
so than the sexual as*ault...

- It's obviously horrible.
- [WELTEROTH] Right.

So I should mention, Devin
Druid, who plays Tyler,

and did a phenomenal job with
that role, is off sh**ting a movie,

so he couldn't be here with us today,

but we should all give
him a round of applause

for the phenomenal
performance that he gave.

You know, we hear this term,
"Hurt people hurt people."

And right now, in our country, we're
talking a lot about g*n v*olence

and how it affects
every kind of community.

But particularly in the wake of
Parkland, I think watching that scene,

and then seeing how he ended up
carrying out his version of revenge,

I think it's almost impossible
once you reach that state of empathy

for a character like Tyler to not
look, to sort of begin to understand

how someone even arrives
at something so unthinkable.

Unfortunately, there are many,
many cases of school sh**t

over the past years
in the United States.

And there's a tremendous amount of
damage in the life stories of people

who commit atrocities like those.

There's a tremendous amount of hurt,

and that doesn't excuse what
they do for a millisecond.

But long before a g*n
gets into anyone's hands,

we need to be taking care of each other,

and looking out for
people who are hurting,

and trying to find ways for
them to cope with that hurt,

and express that hurt in
ways that aren't damaging,

and that don't compound
and repeat the hurt.

[WELTEROTH] Yeah. All right.

So, turning to Justin, and the way
Clay and Tony intervene with him.

Justin falls into a major tailspin
over his part in Jessica's as*ault,

and eventually falling
into heroin addiction,

where his friends find
him in the streets.

So, Nic, you were involved with
writing Justin's arc this season.

Why did this make sense
for this character?

Um, I think, you know, for Justin,
he'd experienced all this pain,

uh, and, you know, guilt, an
incredible amount of guilt.

And so much of the opiate epidemic,

it's so much about,
like, blotting out pain,

and not wanting to feel things,
and it just felt like, for Justin,

that was something that was
gonna be really attractive to him.

You've written and spoken
about your own struggles

with recovering from
addiction in the past.

How did you help Brandon prepare
for this role as an addict?

You know, it was actually
just an amazing experience.

Uh, Brandon is such a great actor.

I took him to a methadone
clinic, uh, here in Los Angeles.

Brandon got to see,

you know, the physicality of
someone who is a heroin addict.

And also just get a sense of sort
of the emotional world of someone

in the grips of addiction like that.

[MINNETTE] You know, I wasn't really...

prepared for what his
performance would be like,

or how he'd be acting
going into those scenes,

but I also didn't really want to
be because Clay wouldn't be either.

- Mm.
- Um...

I don't think anyone is fully
prepared to try and detox someone

in their room because that...
I mean, that's... [STAMMERS]

You know, you shouldn't do that.

But, like, you know, you
should seek professional help.

For me, I just...

Having gone through it, like,

there's nothing
glamorous about addiction.

There's nothing pretty about it
at all, so, to me, I think just...

We wanted to show the reality of
it, which is that it's not glamorous.

It's gross. [CHUCKLES]

And, um, I think we
did that pretty well.

- Yeah. It was pretty gross.
- Yeah. It was pretty gross.

[MINNETTE] A lot of puke in my room.

- [WELTEROTH] A lot.
- A lot.

All right. Let's open
up to audience Q and A.

Who has a question?

Hey, guys. My name is Jordan.

And my question is, do you believe
media contributes to g*n v*olence

and how do you go about
portraying the teen characters

and their access to and use
of g*ns without glorifying it?

Hmm. That's a great question.

In portraying g*ns in a piece
of popular entertainment,

I think you do really have
to do some soul-searching

about whether what you're doing
is glamorizing g*ns and g*n use,

and if it's contributing to the problem

or trying to contribute to a solution.

And again, as we mentioned earlier,

I think people looking at the
second season of Reasons Why

will have different opinions
about whether we're, um,

addressing possible solutions
or contributing to a problem,

and that's fair, and
that's why you make things.

You make things for
people to have opinions,

for people to disagree about,
for people to argue about.

We always tried to be very aware

of why and how each individual
character would get a g*n.

We were asked early on in season ,

when we had the scene with Tyler
with the trunk full of g*ns,

we were asked, "Is this really realistic

that a teen would be able to have
these g*ns and build the pipe bombs?"

And so, we sat down with the
people asking the question

and walked them through, for
instance, how the Columbine K*llers

got a hold of all the g*ns they did.

And, in fact, um, the arsenal
that Tyler has in season

is very much designed after the arsenal

that Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold had,

and had access to, and
bought mostly legally.

And from there, I think the
question of whether or not

we should portray g*ns at all is a
worthwhile question to talk about.

And to me, it also goes back
to the question of, well,

not portraying it
doesn't make it go away,

and not telling the story doesn't mean

that it's not happening in society.

It just means we're
not talking about it.

Teenagers are emotional and impulsive.

And that's not a very
good combination to have

for somebody holding a w*apon
that's that easily, um...

leads to death.

And I was really moved that Justin
was finally the voice of reason

and showed the audience
that you can walk to the edge

without going over it.

Mm. Well, thank you all
so much for being here.

Thank you for everything
you've contributed.

Thank you so much for
your question. Moving on.

In season , the search for justice
connects everything and everyone.

Hannah's parents face-off against
the school in an excruciating trial,

while her friends continue to
seek justice on their own terms.

- Bryce Walker?
- Yes.

You're under arrest for
felony sexual as*ault.

[WELTEROTH] And Bryce Walker
finally has his day in court.

Though, the results are
not what anyone hoped.

- Welcome, everyone.
- Good to be here.

Joining us now, we have
Justin Prentice, Alisha Boe,

and series consultant Carrie Goldberg.

All right, Justin,
we're gonna bring you in.

- Gonna bring you into this.
- Okay.

Okay. What has it been
like to play Bryce Walker?

[CHUCKLES] Well, he's
the villain, obviously,

which... which I signed up for.

I knew that kind of going in.

As an actor, it's rewarding to
play roles that aren't yourself.

I think, in season ,
we really see kind of

more of how he is the way he is.

It certainly doesn't justify
anything that Bryce does.

He is a monster, and
he has monstrous acts.

But I think it is neat

to kind of piece together the
complexities of this monster essence.

I will say it's
terrifying because, like,

your eyes, like, are... you just...

There's something that turns on,

and you're, like, "I'm
actually terrified."

You're making a big f*cking mistake.

I know we all know this.
Like, we all, like...

- Justin is not Bryce.
- Yes, I am not...

Everyone, can we just say that together?

- Just one time. "Justin is not Bryce."
- [ALL] "Justin is not Bryce."

- [CHUCKLES]
- This is one of the finest human beings

you will ever meet in
your life right here.

- And I think that... It's really true.
- [CHEERING, APPLAUSE]

[STAMMERS] And I think
it's not coincidental

that someone like this is willing
to take on a role like that

and do it truthfully.

I remember right when the show came out,

you posted a really cute
baby picture of yourself.

And you're like, "For everyone who
hates me this week, here is this."

[ALL LAUGHING]

- Um...
- Good tactic.

I do... Thank you. I'm
doing everything I can.

So, Brian, why'd you choose to
use the trial against the school

as a framing device for season ?

It's not uncommon for, I think,
anyone in a situation like the Bakers

to want to find an
explanation for what happened,

to want to be able to place
blame and responsibility.

And so, our hope was that people's, um,

feeling about who was responsible,

and whether, specifically,
the school was responsible,

would evolve over the
course of the season.

As a matter of fact,
we had just finished

sort of laying out the whole
season, the way the trial would work.

And we took a straw vote
in the writer's room,

and I think there were ten of us,

so almost the size of a
jury, and we took a vote

about who would hold the school
responsible and who wouldn't.

We were deadlocked at five to five.

- So...
- Oh, my gosh.

So, hopefully, that...

The trial is not only
sort of an engine of story,

but also really leads people
to have those conversations

and have debates on their own,

because it's an important
conversation to have.

What did you do when you were
angry at Courtney Crimsen?

I just took her to Hannah's grave.

And isn't it true that you accused her

of being responsible for Hannah's death?

She is responsible.

- All of those kids are responsible.
- Are you responsible, Clay?

Are you responsible for Hannah's death?

So, Dylan, when Clay cannot
clear Hannah's name in court,

he ends up taking justice
into his own hands,

and he releases the
tapes anonymously online.

Do you think that Clay
made the right call?

Clay is someone who
always acts on emotion,

and doesn't really think
his decisions through

or his words through
before he does or says them.

People did terrible things to you
and they're getting away with it.

You left those tapes for a reason.

- What reason?
- To...

To make people face what
they did, and admit it,

and understand how f*cked up it was.

He wasn't thinking about
how that would affect

others on the tapes, and
other people involved.

And that's not what Hannah would
have wanted him to do, I don't think.

If Clay had a chance to do it
again, I don't think he would.

All right, so, Alisha, Jessica
is pressured by many people

to speak out against Bryce
in order to get justice.

Why do you think she was
initially reluctant to do so?

Because she wasn't ready.

She hadn't even told her
father yet who the person is.

The story is with her
family is that she was r*ped.

She told her parents that, but
she doesn't know who did it still,

but she knows that it's a
person who went to school.

What are you doing?

- Dad.
- What have you got to say for yourself?

[JESSICA] Stop!

Who do you think you're
hurting right now?

- What this boy did to you...
- He didn't do it.

So she hasn't been able
to tell her father that.

And she really didn't believe
she was the right kind of victim,

especially her day after court.

Um, Jessica has that
beautiful line where she goes,

"Look at what they're doing to
Hannah, and she's white," like...

And that's a real thing.

Like, Jessica is black,
and it's in a courtroom

and it's going against Bryce who's
this white kid, who is doing...

Like, he's the baseball star, and
his dad literally funds the school.

Like, who's gonna believe her?
The odds are already against her.

Yeah, but I also think you have to
see this as the victory that it is,

because about six out of
a thousand sexual assaults

actually end with somebody
being criminally prosecuted.

- Six out of a thousand?
- Yeah. I mean, it is...

- Out of a thousand.
- I did not know that.

It is crazy, and so I totally
agree with what you're saying

about Jessica not believing
she's the perfect victim.

But no victims believe

- they are the perfect victim.
- Yeah.

And anybody who's on the
stand is going to be portrayed

as a liar, or an opportunist,
or vengeful, or crazy.

And that's why it's
so courageous and bold

and, in many ways, selfless
for somebody to come forward

and pursue criminal
charges against a r*pist.

- Yeah.
- It has tremendous social value.

So, Justin, talk to us about
being a man in this world today

and what you've learned from
being on a show like this.

Well, I can go to any party and
not have in the back of my mind,

"Something could go wrong tonight."

That's never a thought that I have,

and that's privilege 'cause I'm a guy.

And in talking to all
of the women in my life

through this show and whatnot
and people who have come to us

after the show's come out,

it's insane, it is happening
way too f*cking much.

It shouldn't be happening at all,

but the fact that people are
talking about it is brilliant.

I remember him holding me down...

and forcing himself on me.

I remember his face...

It was... it was Bryce Walker.

[YORKEY] I mean, it's a
season full of people, like,

swinging fists at people and,
like, pointing g*ns at people.

[STAMMERS] There's a lot of sh*t
that goes down in this season,

and I think the most courageous
thing in the entire season

- is when she says "Bryce Walker."
- Yeah.

That takes the most courage
of anything that happens.

So, Brian, why did you choose
to let Bryce off the hook

with just a little slap on the wrist?

Mr. Walker...

I expect you to walk the
straight and narrow, young man.

I'm sentencing you to three
months' probation, so ordered.

We did a tremendous amount of
research into cases like this,

and certainly in the case
of rich, white defendants,

more often than not, the
sentences were much lighter

than, I think, a reasonable
person thought they should be.

We did see that in
the Brock Turner case,

and we've seen that
all over the country,

and that's in cases where the
police actually take the report,

and where investigators
actually investigated,

and then prosecutors
actually prosecuted,

and there are no plea bargains.

So we already got
through all those hurdles.

And then the judge,

you know, just does this
light, little slap on the wrist.

Um, I think one of the most maddening

and realistic scenes in the entire show

was when the judge basically builds
this, like, false moral equivalence

between Jessica and
Bryce, where he says,

"Well, you know, you both have made
decisions that brought you here,

and you're both young and deserve
to go on with your life... "

This is a tragedy all around.

As a judge, it's my role
to look at both sides.

I'd like to see these
two young people look hard

at their lives and their choices.

There's nothing equivalent

about the decisions that
Bryce and Jessica made.

- Bryce made the deci... [CHUCKLES]
- [CHEERING, APPLAUSE]

Um...

You know, Bryce made the
decision to r*pe Jessica.

Jessica did not make
the decision to be r*ped.

When we wrote that, a
colleague said to us,

"People are gonna be so pissed
that Bryce only gets three months."

And we said, "Yeah, good.
They should be pissed."

- Yeah.
- 'Cause it's happening every day.

... across the country every
day, and people should be pissed.

Okay, it's time to
address our next subject.

A major theme throughout
season is recovery.

Clay remains angry and
traumatized by Hannah's su1c1de,

unable to move on.

Leave me alone!

[WELTEROTH] Jessica struggles to
feel comfortable in her own skin

and returns to the
school where her abuser

- remains the big man on campus.
- Who did this?

And Alex faces an uphill battle

with the physical and
emotional aftermath

of his own su1c1de attempt.

Why did I do this to myself?

Though they slowly make
strides both alone and together,

it becomes very clear that recovery
does not follow a straight line.

[APPLAUSE]

Welcome, everyone.

We're joined now by
Dr. Christine Moutier,

from the American Foundation
for su1c1de Prevention.

This season, we find a really
angry and confused Clay,

who's trying really hard to
move on, but he just can't.

So, Brian, let's start with you.

So, we watch Clay frequently talk
to and even argue with Hannah,

who appears this season as sort
of a figment of his imagination.

How did you come to
that element of his story

and what does it mean for
Clay's journey towards recovery?

Well, we knew wanted to
follow Clay's sort of path

that he would have to take to truly
be able to move on from his loss,

from the loss of Hannah.

There's a cycle that I think
every person wants to go through

that's healthy to get to the point
where you have grieved a person.

- [WELTEROTH] Mm-hmm.
- And that grief is not a day-to-day,

hour-to-hour thing that's
a part of your life.

It will be for a period of time, and
then it will get to be, uh, less so.

And that's the natural
process of grieving.

And I think what we
saw with Clay season

was a kid who was just
beginning that process.

And so when we went
into writing season ,

we wanted to follow
that process through.

But I do think that it's
a very natural thing to do,

to imagine the person that you're
missing and to talk to them.

And I think that it's a really
important part of Clay's recovery.

I'm angry all the time, Hannah.

I have been since you d*ed.

I remember Brian saying to me,

"You're gonna be talking
to her in season .

You're going to be going
through, um, situations with her."

[STAMMERS] And I was excited
to see what it was gonna be.

- [WELTEROTH] Yeah.
- And, um...

And it was a process of
learning it over the season,

'cause it's not an
easy thing to perform,

but it was all really
interesting and exciting.

All of those scenes were so
convincing and so integral to season .

Yeah, it's kind of the
heart of it, in a way.

Unfortunately, Katherine Langford
couldn't be here with us today,

but here's what she had to
say about Hannah in season .

[CLAY] So, Hannah?

I love you.

And I let you go.

It's interesting, 'cause that scene

was actually the last scene I sh*t...

for season , and everyone was there.

And I think it was just
a really beautiful way

to kind of, for me, put her to rest,

I think, as a character.

You know, I feel so grateful
to have had the opportunity

to tell Hannah's story
so fully in season .

[STAMMERS] But I think
at the end of the day,

like, overall this season

for everyone, we notice that
it's not really the same Hannah

that you see this season
as you do in season .

You know, every time you see her,

it's filtered through
the lens of someone else.

I can't forgive you, Hannah.

I can't ever forgive you.

I think recovery and healing
were such an important theme,

particularly Clay's
journey and Clay's healing.

The relationship between Clay
and Justin is a really interesting

and very complementary
relationship to watch.

Although their worlds are so
far apart and so dissimilar...

You know I'm, like,
really f*cked up, right?

- Well, A, yes.
- [CHUCKLES]

... Clay is able to help
Justin and vice versa.

Justin helps Clay in his own way.

- Oh.
- [MINNETTE] Clay may not realize it,

but he really needs
someone like Justin there

to help get him through, um,
this really difficult process.

And, um, where would Clay have ended
up if Justin wasn't there for him?

[STAMMERS] Yeah, when Clay's
telling Justin how to tie a tie

and Justin tells him that that
he really needs to get laid...

We really need to get you laid.

... that was my favorite part.
It was really, really funny.

Yeah, it was also... That's what was fun

also about having Justin around,

and when they start to become
comfortable with each other.

I mean, there's these moments of...

of levity, you know, with these two.

And then there's light
moments between them

that you don't really expect

because when Clay brings
Justin in, Clay hates Justin.

The last thing Clay wants is
to have Justin in his room.

I don't want you to
start hating me again.

[CLAY SIGHS]

- Who said I stopped?
- [MINNETTE] Over the course of the season,

they really learn from each other

and Clay forms a real
respect for Justin.

And, um, yeah, so I think that,
you know, the "bromance" moments

are great because it just...

It offers up light to this dark world
that we're living in in the show,

- and...
- Yeah. I loved the moment

when Clay was waiting outside the
shower, outside of the bathroom,

when the shower was running,
and you were just trying to cover

for your new brother who's
secretly taking a shower.

[MINNETTE] Yeah.

- [WATER RUNNING]
- Can you get out now?

It has to look like I'm the
one in the shower, you idiot.

Well, can you pass me some more shampoo?

- There's moments for comedy on the show.
- Yeah.

All right, so Brandon Flynn
couldn't be here today with us,

but let's see what he had to say

about Justin and Clay's
relationship this season.

My favorite part of this
whole season, selfishly, is...

the relationship that starts
to form between Clay and Justin,

and the whole Jensen family,

and the way that they...
they embrace Justin.

What the hell happened to you two?

- It was a fight.
- Sports.

They were just like the best thing ever

because it was just like, you
know, more than just a one-off scene

about, like, my heroin addiction.

It was, like, just a
little slice of life.

You should have some pancakes.
They're f*cking amazing!

Which I never thought would
be, like, my cup of tea.

You know, I'm usually
the one who's like,

"Let's get real sad and tragic!"

But it was really awesome to
just sit at a breakfast table

and have, like, these awkward moments.

[SIGHS] Great.

And just have, like,
this... this levity,

which I think is gonna be so enjoyable

for the audience as well.

- How sweet!
- Oh, man.

Well, he... his answer was better,
but we gave similar answers.

All right, so we're gonna
switch gears to Alex.

So, this season, Alex has had to
deal with the physical recovery

from his su1c1de attempt, along
with the emotional recovery.

So, Miles, Alex and Jessica
lean on each other heavily

on their return to Liberty High.

However, they are
both sort of recovering

from very different
traumatic experiences.

With Alex, people can actually
physically see the change in him.

But in Jessica, they can't.

How do you think that factors

into the way they're
treated by other people?

With Jessica, unfortunately,
in our culture for some reason,

people tend to, uh, doubt
sexual as*ault survivors.

And I feel like Jessica's
dealing with that,

where people are treating her
like either nothing happened,

or she's a liar, or she's exaggerating.

- A slut.
- Yeah, or she's a slut.

And then you have Alex, where
everyone's kind of tiptoeing around him,

because they feel bad for
him because he did this thing.

And so I think that it is...

It's really important
for the two of them

to have each other in their
recovery in certain ways.

And then I think at times
it can be kind of harmful,

because they are experiencing
such different forms of recovery.

It's really beneficial and it is helpful

to have someone there even when
you're doubting their motives.

If people just continue to
show up and they're there,

over time, you just start to
realize that they're not doing it

for any other reason other than
the fact that they care about you.

And I think that Alex,
by the end of the season,

is starting to understand that
with, um, different people.

[KNOCKING ON DOOR]

- [ZACH] Alex!
- [POUNDING ON DOOR]

- Alex!
- What? I'm awake.

[YORKEY] I love that
Zach keeps showing up

even when sometimes Alex is
a little bit of a sh*t to him.

- [WELTEROTH CHUCKLES]
- Yeah, definitely.

The moment between you
guys, where he's helping you

figure out how to dance,

I think it's one of my favorite moments.

Especially 'cause Zach
is, like, all about like,

"I'm not gonna let you be self-pitying."

Like, "I'm not gonna let you
do that. Come on, get up."

So good hand on her waist,

- left hand on her hip.
- This one... Yeah.

She'll hold it and just lean into her.

Okay?

So, Miles, do you think in real life,
you are a better dancer than Ross

- or is it the other way around?
- I am better. I actually have proof.

- [LAUGHTER]
- [BOE] Oh, my gosh.

Okay, what are you talking about?

- Alisha was there.
- Oh, hey. What are you talk... Wow.

- Ross is actually good at everything.
- [BOE] Yeah.

- Honestly.
- Very good at

- a lot of things.
- [BOE] He taught himself Chinese.

- Or Mandarin.
- Like a concert pianist

and guitar player.

He's crazy, but we went
to this arcade convention

and I challenged him to
Dance Dance Revolution.

- Thank you. And I b*at him.
- [BOE] Miles is so good.

- I'm not bad.
- You were so good.

- So I think I was better.
- You're like... [IMITATES RAPID DANCING]

- It was, like, actually mind-blowing.
- Thank you.

It was like the... And it
was so early in the season,

I was just getting to
know you and I'm like...

So, yes, I'm better than
Ross Butler at dancing.

- [ALL LAUGHING]
- [WELTEROTH] All right, so, Alisha,

how did you prepare for the
role of Jessica this season?

What I did most of my research on

was the lifelong psychological effects

that would happen, 'cause you
see Jessica going through PTSD.

She has panic att*cks,
and she has flashbacks,

and triggers that will
set off those flashbacks.

How she'll think that
she's fine one day,

and then the next day,
something crazy will happen

like Justin showing up to school,

and all of those emotions
coming back to her

and setting her back to step one.

One of the most powerful
performances in the entire season

was watching you in that fitting room.

- [BOE] Yeah.
- And then coming out,

and you and Nina having that exchange...

I was so grateful that
you had a girlfriend there

who understood what
you're going through,

that could sort of catch you when
you were crumbling in that moment.

Yeah, yeah. That was a very,
very hard day. [CHUCKLES]

- Um, funny story, though. While we were...
- [BOE AND YORKEY LAUGHING]

- [WELTEROTH] Give us some levity, please.
- Yeah, this is...

While we were filming, I'm,
like, naked and then I'm not.

And then I'm running out of the
dressing room and I'm like, "Ah!"

And then all the sirens are going
off, the alarms are going off and...

We're filming in a live mall
and there's people there,

and this woman and her daughter
come up to me while we're filming,

and there's like...
There's cameras around us.

And she goes, "Are you okay?
Like, do you want me to call... ?"

No, the first thing she says is,
"Do you want me to call the police?"

And I'm like... And I'm
like... [GRUNTS, CHUCKLES]

No.

And I walk away, and then
people are like, "We're filming."

And her expression was just priceless,

like, she was so genuinely concerned.

- Yeah.
- [WELTEROTH] At least you knew

- your performance was convincing.
- Yeah, yeah.

So, Dr. Moutier, Jessica
maintains this beautiful closeness

with her father in season .

Despite all she's been through,

she's still able to connect and
talk to her parents honestly.

How is the support of a parent crucial

to a sexual as*ault survivor's
journey towards recovery?

A parent can really play a pivotal
role in their young person's life

after a sexual as*ault or, really,
after any traumatic incident.

It's a very discombobulating time,
and then trying to work through that

is an experience of sort of, um,
reintegrating your world, if you will,

after something like that.

So for a parent to realize

that their child is going through
something extremely significant...

And you can't assume that
you know exactly what that is.

I think it's hard, 'cause
we all have our own instincts

in a moment of, like, "Oh, they
need this or they're ready for this."

Yeah, and you just
wanna help them so bad

that you can be aggressive sometimes.

And you need to be...
just be patient and wait

and let them know that
you'll be there for them.

And whenever they're ready to
talk, they'll be ready to talk.

- [MOUTIER] Yep, follow their cues.
- Yeah, yeah.

There's a really sweet moment

when, um, Jessica's
dad tucks her into bed.

- It's just...
- [BOE] Oh, my gosh.

- [CHUCKLES] That was so sweet.
- [MOUTIER] It's a time, I think,

when people do need that
kind of nurturing and support.

And it's so powerful, because
Jessica's r*pe was on that bed.

And I feel like that scene

just shows like, okay,
she's able to be in there.

And it's just... It pours the
love back into that bedroom

where everything was
taken away from her.

I'm just thinking about
it. [CHUCKLES] It's so cute.

- Yeah.
- Who doesn't love that feeling?

I love good fathers.

I know. We need more
representation of good fathers.

Black fathers.

- They're very important.
- [BOE AND WELTEROTH] Very important.

All right, let's go to a question
from a fan in our audience.

[WOMAN] Hi. [CHUCKLES]

My name is Federica, and thank
you for being here, first of all.

And my question is, uh,
why didn't the school

allow the students to talk
about Alex's su1c1de attempt

and Hannah's actual su1c1de?

And do you think this is the right
way to deal with this problem?

[CLICKS TONGUE] In our story,

the school was afraid
of, uh, su1c1de contagion,

which is a very real and
documented phenomenon,

um, especially in the hothouse
situation of a high school.

Uh, and so their response
was to shut down conversation.

Um, it was based on a
great deal of research,

but also on a story told by a woman
whose son had committed su1c1de.

And his friends, um... and
this was in Washington State.

His friends had been very upset
and not sure how to deal with it

because the school had
forbidden them to talk about him

or about the su1c1de for fear
that it would inspire copycats.

It's something that,
I think, is a common...

a pretty common response on the part
of institutions like high schools.

You know, I don't think it's my place

to say whether or not I
think it's a good idea.

I think there's a lot
of science behind it,

and I always defer to scientists
and social scientists and doctors.

- Luckily, I have one right next to me.
- [WELTEROTH] Mm-hmm.

Yeah. I think out of fear,
when you don't know what to do

but you know something about
the possibility of contagion,

you just say, "Shut it
all down altogether."

And that is also very unhealthy,
because in any population of people,

there's gonna be some portion
of them who are struggling

and who are becoming
at risk for su1c1de.

And so it's really...

The time is at that moment to
use plain language around it,

call it what it is, a
su1c1de has happened.

And there are resources for anyone

who is, um, who's dealing with
any kind of mental health concern

or any sort of distress of any type.

Essentially, what happens when you
shut down conversation like that

is it further stigmatizes all issues,

so people just don't know
what is safe to talk about.

And again, everybody's
struggling at some point in time.

And the way through that
is to start talking about it

with safe people, with
trustworthy people.

But to share it and to get
through it with support.

- And to get rid of that stigma.
- Yep.

Thank you so much for your
question. All right, moving on.

The issues of v*olence against women

and the cone of silence
in today's high schools

are both explored
thoroughly in season .

- Wait, is that... ?
- Bryce.

[WELTEROTH] As the truth unravels
about Bryce and the Clubhouse,

we see how dangerous
power, peer pressure,

and an ingrained boys'
club mentality can be.

I just don't wanna
hear any more about it.

[APPLAUSE]

Welcome, everyone.

- Thank you so much for being here.
- Thank you.

In addition to Justin, we're
joined by Annie Winters,

Brandon Butler, executive
producer Joy Gorman Wettels,

and series consultant Alexis Jones.

I can't wait to talk about
the takedown of this Clubhouse.

This is when it all sort
of heats up and speeds up.

Yeah. I mean, the Clubhouse
is really a metaphor, right?

- For r*pe culture everywhere.
- Mm-hmm.

This systemic r*pe culture

that we've seen coming down in Hollywood

and in so many organizations
in corporate America...

It's in every high school,
it's in every college,

anywhere that there's a power dynamic,

anywhere that victims feel
that they will lose their job,

their agency, their popularity,
their baseball team if they speak up.

And so we thought that it
would be really important

to show how maybe one person that
can be brave enough to speak up

like Zach, like Clay, like ultimately
Scott Reed, can dismantle that.

Why didn't you hit me?

I play baseball.

That doesn't make me a f*cking r*pist.

So, Brandon, I wanna talk to you.

Scott is always being grouped in
with Bryce and all the other athletes,

but then later in the season, we
see him start to separate himself,

and I wanna talk to
you about that moment.

It seemed like it was a turning
point for your character.

[BUTLER] Yeah, I think you're right.

At first, maybe Scott, you
know, didn't really believe.

Like, "All right, rumors are going on.

But this is Bryce, you
know. This is my friend.

I grew up with him, I played
football, baseball with this guy.

There's no way that he could
really do anything like this."

And I think as the season keeps
going, you see Scott kinda realizing,

"Wow, this is not who I want
to be, you know, involved with.

This is not who I wanna be."

Look, we've been taking care
of Bryce for too long, man.

Come on, enough's enough.

[BUTLER] For people
who do relate to Scott,

just stand up if you don't
see anything that's right,

even though they are your friends.

You know, I would think you're
caring more for your friend,

you're being, you know,
a true friend, if you say,

"Hey, man, this is not you.
This is not who I know."

That's why we brought Alexis in.

I mean, Alexis worked with
Justin, she worked with the cast,

she read the scripts
and it was 'cause we knew

that this is... this is the person
who's going into these locker rooms

and teaching young men,

"Oh, you don't have to be the problem.

You can be part of the solution."

I'm very passionate about, like,
tangible tools and language.

I think we can talk about it in theory

and we can use words like "consent"

and "bystander intervention,"

but the reality is, no one's using words

like "consent and
bystander intervention"

- in an actual locker room.
- Right.

So my thing is the simple
phrase, "We don't do that."

Right? That's not pointing
fingers and saying like,

"You're not doing something
right, and I'm so great."

Because that's part of bro code,

is, "I'm not gonna call you
out 'cause I'm imperfect."

And so, for me, this idea
of like, "We don't do that"

and that's a collective.

We can do something
to make a difference,

and we are setting a higher expectation

and standard for ourselves.

And there's still that
camaraderie and that friendship.

- You're not breaking that.
- We're still we. Just don't be that guy.

- Be us.
- Exactly.

- We don't do that.
- We're good. Don't do that.

And to me, it's not just
protecting girls, right?

That's also protecting your brothers.

If you actually care about your buddy,

why would you ever allow them
to engage in any kind of behavior

that has the severe consequences

on the other side of what
we're seeing play out?

In these instances,
language is such a tool.

- [WETTELS] Yep.
- It is the tool.

It is the tool, so I love
that you offered one tool to us

which is, "We don't do that."

That's the interesting thing,

is it's definitely a cultural problem
that we have that can be changed.

The epiphanies that these boys have
in these locker rooms, as in like,

"Oh, we don't have to
participate in this culture.

Things can be different."

So I think it's a testament to
what can change by being brave

for those seconds
where it matters, you know,

and speaking out and saying something.

You know, if you were any kind of
father, to this team or to anyone,

you would've stopped
their bullshit years ago.

It's the complicity of silence
that keeps these "clubhouses" going.

So Annie, early on in the season,

Chlöe, your character, chooses to
believe the version of the events

- that she hears from the abuser, Bryce.
- Right.

- And not to believe the victim, Jessica.
- Yeah.

When you found out about
this, when you read the script,

were you sort of hoping deep down
that Chlöe would switch allegiances?

Of course. I mean, duh.
The outsider's like,

- "What are you thinking? Come on. Duh."
- [ALL CHUCKLING]

When you have a guy that's
very powerful in high school

and you're a girl that he picks,

like, that's gonna be kind
of your first priority.

[CROWD] Aw!

Hey, how about a hand for our
new cheer captain, Chlöe Rice?

[CHEERING]

And I feel like a lot of girls end
up putting them on this pedestal

and then of course she's gonna believe,

you know, everything that he says.

It's also her worth
with her girlfriends.

Like, it looks very cool to be, like,

"Well, yeah, I have
a great relationship."

And she brags about it to her friends.

And it's become like her
thing. It's become everything...

- It's defined her.
- ... that she is in high school.

And to get rid of that is not
only getting rid of a relationship

that makes her feel validated,

but also validation
in every other aspect

of her whole "social
life" in high school.

- You know?
- [WELTEROTH] Mm-hmm.

[DENNIS] So you don't remember
having sex with Bryce Walker?

I do. I remember.

[JONES] I think as
heartbreaking as that moment was

as a feminist watching this, I
was like, "Don't do it, girl!"

You know, I think there's
definitely a piece of that

that was hard to watch,
but I'm actually so...

ironically grateful that
they scripted it that way

because I think, unfortunately,
that is so much more

the authentic representation of girls,

because girls have been
given just as equally

a dangerous cultural script

that says that, "I'm
gonna choose this human

- at the expense so often of myself."
- [WELTEROTH] Mm.

But I think, truthfully, it
comes down to a worth issue.

And I think the way that
our culture and society

has set up worth for girls

and it is reinforced in the
. hours of media a day,

especially, that millennials consume...

The messages that are so crystal
clear, specifically in this country,

are there are two ways in
which you matter as a girl.

It's your physical attractiveness
based on an impossible, unrealistic,

unattainable expectation, and the
attention that you get from boys.

We have to understand
that half of the way

in which Chlöe has been programmed

is that the attention
that she gets from Bryce

- is half of how she matters.
- [WELTEROTH] Right.

And so I think if I could sit
her down, if I could sit you down,

if I could sit down the
-year-old version of me,

I would just say like, "Do you
have any idea how beloved you are?"

- Yeah.
- You are worthy and deserving of respect

and love because you breathe.

- [APPLAUSE]
- Chills.

All right, let's go to a question
from a fan in our audience.

Hi, my name is Tori.

And my question is, what was
the environment like on set

while filming the heavier scenes,

especially the ones dealing with r*pe?

- [WELTEROTH] Ooh.
- We take really seriously,

A, how brave these guys
have to be to do this,

but we also, you know, that's
part of what our consultants do.

Our therapists talk to them and,
you know, we take so seriously

that they're doing this,
like, really difficult work.

[PRENTICE] Rehearsals help.

That way, there's less unknown, which
makes it a little less terrifying

so we can really kinda focus on
the characters when we're doing it.

I mean, you guys are amazing.

All of our producers,

our directors that we've had

for all of those scenes
have been fantastic.

Thank you all for being here.

All of you did such a fantastic job

and contributed so much
to the conversation.

- So thank you.
- [ALL] Thank you.

Great. Thank you so
much for your question.

All right, let's move
on to the next topic.

This season, confusing, often
heartbreaking romantic relationships

continue to plague nearly everyone.

I came back for you.

[WELTEROTH] Jessica struggles with
her complicated feelings for Justin.

The revelation of Zach and Hannah's
secret romance shocks everyone.

You didn't deserve her.

Tony's anger puts his relationship
with Caleb in jeopardy.

And Clay can't be Skye's savior,
no matter how hard he tries.

You're supposed to call me.

[APPLAUSE]

[WELTEROTH] Now, let's
welcome our new guests,

series writer Julia Bicknell,

and series consultant Dr. Helen Hsu.

Okay, we have to start with you, Alisha.

What did you think of the decision

to have Jessica and Justin
act on their feelings

in that final episode of season ?

Yeah, I had a lot of feelings.

Honestly, like, when
I read it, I was upset.

But then I kinda had to take a step back

and look through Jessica's perspective.

This happens a month later,

and Justin literally just
went to jail for Jessica.

- Justin! Wait, no.
- Jess, it's okay.

- What?
- It's okay.

[BOE] I can understand why she would
because she does love him, but...

- It was so painful to watch.
- Totally.

And at the same time, I
caught myself and I thought,

"Why am I judging her?

- Why am I judging her? I am a feminist."
- [BOE] Yeah, exactly. Totally.

She can do whatever she wants.

She can do whatever she
wants. It's her body.

'Cause Jessica has this
whole journey with her body.

Like, her body throughout
this season is not her own.

I feel like that moment with
Justin, she looks at him and...

- You look beautiful.
- ... he calls her beautiful

and she's like, "Wow," like...

She feels like herself and she
feels beautiful in her body,

and he made her feel
that way in that moment.

You know, and I've worked with
survivors. And so it is complicated.

And you don't become
abstinent and a sexless being

with no healthy sexuality just
because something happened to you.

Lots of people are abused,

or someone was complicit in their
abuse by someone they really loved,

who, in other ways, was really
good to them, and it's confusing.

- [BOE] Yeah. Yeah.
- Mm-hmm.

All right, so let's talk
about a positive relationship

that maybe ended badly
with Zach and Hannah.

Obviously, the relationship went wrong

when Zach decided to keep the
relationship a secret from his friends.

When did the idea of this relationship
between Zach and Hannah come up?

- Come about?
- Yeah.

It's so interesting 'cause we
actually talked about it in season

in the room of giving Hannah

a positive experience with
a guy, but we... [CHUCKLES]

Obviously, real estate wise,
we had to get through the tapes

and all of the awful
things that happened to her.

But in season , we're like,
"Let's bring this back around."

And you know, we threw around
a lot of ideas about it.

And one of it was just like, "Let's
give her this, like, sweet guy.

Zach was really sweet,
and he listens to her."

Like, her, being, like,

"I've had been practicing, and
I know what makes me feel good."

That's so important for girls to know

that they're allowed
to feel good during sex.

[STAMMERS] My initial
reaction just as a viewer

and, I guess, as Clay...

Clay kicked in, and I was like,
"That's not... There's no way.

There's no way."

I actually loved it when he's sort
of... You know, Clay's obsessing

and Justin just says, "You're a jerk."

All of a sudden, you
don't know who she is?

- You're a dumbass.
- I'm not a dumbass.

You're dumb. You're an ass. Dumbass.

She's been with, like, one guy ever,

like, and somehow you don't know her?

- What is that? You know?
- [BOE] Yeah, totally.

Yeah, Clay is very quick to let
his emotions get the best of him.

Let's see what Katherine had to say

about Hannah and Zach's relationship.

Take a look.

You know, I think in season
, we told Hannah's story,

I think, so intimately.

So when Brian Yorkey sat me down

and told me about Hannah
and Zach's relationship,

I was definitely little
bit shocked at first.

But I think after I had
time to kind of process it,

I think it was a really
nice addition to this season.

It was a really great opportunity
to show a loving, consensual,

and intimate relationship
between two young people.

[ZACH SIGHS]

- Is that me shaking or you?
- Maybe both. A little bit of both.

[CHUCKLES]

Some people actually said to me,

this means that what happened
between her and Bryce,

it doesn't mean that much anymore.

What I hope viewers
understand and get from this

is that just because
she had sex with Zach

doesn't change the
severity of what Bryce did.

It doesn't matter what your
sexual history or activity

has been or ever been.

It doesn't make sexual as*ault or
sexual v*olence any more appropriate

or acceptable.

You've brought shame on this family.

This season is very much about healing,

particularly Clay's
journey and Clay's healing.

You know, Hannah very much in
season is always pushing Clay

to kind of, like, come
out of his comfort zone.

Party at my house tomorrow night.

You're invited. It's mandatory.
Don't bring the helmet.

And I think that you kinda see
a little bit of that from Skye.

[HANNAH] I like her.

She makes you try new
things. It's good for you.

Skye challenges him, and it feels
like a very natural progression

and a natural relationship.

[WELTEROTH] What did Clay learn

from his relationship
with Skye, you think?

He can't help or save everyone, and
he's not responsible for everyone.

You're a good person, Clay.

And you can help people.

Just maybe not how you
think they need to be helped.

You see that Skye and Clay

really needed each other
to be able to move on

and be happy in their lives.

And yes, the relationship failed
and it didn't work out for them,

but it is what was meant to be

because... because Clay
used Skye's words later on.

I can let you go and still love you.

A good friend once said to me,

"I can love you and still let you go."

It's clear that he needed Skye to
be able to move on and let Hannah go.

And that is what he needs

to be able to have a happy
relationship with anybody.

We have to talk about the school dance.

Dylan, you went from
super high energy dancing

to this incredibly
heightened emotional scene

when Clay and Hannah's song
"The Night We Met" comes on.

♪ I had all and then most of you ♪
♪ Some and now none of you ♪

Clay, as we know, is someone
who always has a wall up

and it takes a lot for him to actually

let anyone in on what he's feeling.

Jessica, and Tony, and Ryan,

and Courtney, and Zach,
and Alex, you know...

[STAMMERS] Clay doesn't open up to
them, and that is the first time...

And yeah, Clay is
experiencing this moment alone,

but when they come in, he allows them to

and he allows them to be there for him.

And that's, I think, the
first time he's allowed that,

that they've all been
together in a moment like that.

For everything they've been through,

there can still be a sense of community

and they can still be
there for each other.

And, um, I think that...

You know, that's huge for Clay and
huge for all of them in that moment.

I mean, you guys can step in,
but I don't know if you agree.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, great.

Hundred percent with
everything you said.

- [ALL CHUCKLING]
- And it's, no, it's, uh...

It was a culmination, I think,
of this two-year journey.

And so I think for everyone
it was so emotional that day.

And we did it forever. I mean,
we were there long into the night.

And so all of those emotions
were real, and, uh...

There was something very
justified and beautiful

about coming together
with Clay at the end and...

putting that to bed in a way, you know?

It's a beautiful scene.

[STAMMERS] I think this
season leads up to that scene.

It's beautiful.

Christian came in and k*lled it
every time. He was outperforming me.

- Yeah, he was sobbing.
- You gotta bring him back.

[ALL LAUGHING]

- You have to make me look good.
- Yeah. [CHUCKLES]

I was just picking up what
you was putting it down.

It's so important to have
a strong support system.

- Yeah.
- It's, like, the most important thing.

And I think that's why that
scene is truly so powerful.

[WELTEROTH] Mm-hmm.

I thought it was a beautiful
theme in this season, actually.

Like, you look... There was
more development of parents,

friends, your chosen family, community,

how they supported Clay, but how
they supported Jessica as well.

But we just wanted you to
know that we'll stand by you.

And we believe you.

All of us.

[HSU] We do need each
other in these ways,

and that we can be very flawed

- and still kind of help each other find our own way.
- [BOE] Yeah.

A big theme of our
season we started with,

when we were even breaking it,

was just going from
isolation to community.

And we wanted to go through that
with... I mean, all of our characters

I think in some way go
from being really isolated,

feel like they gotta do
everything, like, by themselves,

to finding, you know, a beautiful
moment on the dance floor

where we're all crying.

- [ALL] Yeah.
- [MINNETTE] Exactly.

All right, we have
another audience question.

Hello, I'm Leo.

I loved seeing the portrayal

of Caleb and Tony's
relationship this season.

I like seeing the portrayal
of a tough gay man.

I, myself, am gay.

And I feel like in shows and movies,

we generally see a gay man
being portrayed as feminine.

Nothing wrong with
being feminine at all.

Were you intentionally trying
to break this stereotype

by having this character being
portrayed as a tough gay man?

Authenticity I think was
the most important thing.

I think, uh...

I'm not a gay man, and so I
was wary of playing the role

'cause I didn't want to... You
wanna do justice to this person

and to Tony and to bring
this person to life.

And since the show's release,

I have been welcomed with
open arms by the gay community.

And that lets me know
that I've done my job.

And the writers, Julia,
and the team and myself,

our focus is making sure
that he's not a gay man.

He's a man who's living his life

and going through problems
like everyone else.

And, uh, he just happens to be gay.

For us, it was just
making sure that everyone

came off as three-dimensional.

You know, Tony... I love
that when we introduced Caleb,

Caleb understands Tony in so many ways.

They're both... Also,
they're both gay men of color

walking through the world.

And R.J. who plays Caleb is a fantastic
human and a pretty great actor.

- Pretty handsome, too.
- [WELTEROTH] Pretty handsome, too.

Tony's not doing too bad.

[ALL LAUGHING]

Personally, I lived... I have a
lot of best friends who are gay.

And I lived... My roommate in college,

he turned the stereotype
on its head for me.

This was a strong, powerful,
Latino man who was into fitness

and into a multitude of things.

Uh, and, for me, that was
eye-opening at that age.

And I really, truly wanted
to pay homage to him.

That, to me, was the
most important thing.

I wanted to be true to this... to
the person, not to the stereotype,

and to the community,
and they've loved us. Oh.

[APPLAUSE, CHEERING]

Great. Thank you so
much for your question.

All right, let's move
on to the final topic.

As the trial against
the school commences,

Olivia continues to question
her role in Hannah's death...

My dear Hannah. Such drama.

... while forging relationships
with Hannah's friends

in an attempt to hang on to any
remaining connection to her daughter.

[APPLAUSE]

Welcome, everyone. Thank
you so much for being here.

Joining us for our
final topic, Kate Walsh,

su1c1de Prevention
Advocate Suzanne Timms,

series writer Marissa Jo Cerar,

and series consultant Dr. Helen Hsu.

Kate, I wanna start with you.

You play Olivia Baker,
Hannah Baker's mother.

Talk to us a little bit about

what Olivia is going through
since Hannah's su1c1de

and everything that's
happened between her and Andy.

I really loved starting
the second season,

you know, a few months down the road,

and just the changes
that have transpired.

So to see her evolve and
everything she's gone through

was really exciting for me to play

and, I think, very realistic.

So, Marissa, tell us about
how the writers decided

where Olivia and Andy's
storyline should go this season.

Well, what Kate said is so true.

This happens when there
is a su1c1de in the family.

It often ends in divorce, unfortunately.

And we really wanted to show that
grief looks different on everyone.

And these two people are both grieving,

but doing so in very different ways.

And that in the five-ish months
between season and season ,

so much has transpired.

We discovered that the
men in these relationships

are often more ready to move
on quicker than the women.

And so we just wanted to try

and be as truthful as
we could in that respect.

It was so painful to
watch the two of them

go through such different processes
for grieving their daughter

and to see it sort of tear them apart.

Well, I want to welcome
a very special guest

that we have with us
today, uh, Suzanne Timms.

Suzanne, you're the only
one here with us today

who has actually lived through
what Olivia has experienced.

Can you tell us, um, your story?

Um, I'm here because I had what I
thought was a seemingly perfect life.

I'm married to a wonderful husband,

and I have four beautiful children.

And as a nurse, I've cared
for many su1c1de attempts.

And unfortunately, in ,

I learned that you can be
so much closer to su1c1de.

My -year-old chose to die by su1c1de.

I didn't get a whole lot of opportunity

to write a script
about how I should feel

or how I should react,
because it's real life, so...

That's why I'm here
today as an advocate.

How did you initially
become connected to the show?

Because of my son's death, I took
the opportunity to be an advocate

um, rather than being silent.

I decided that my son's
silence didn't saved him, so...

I wanted to be his voice.

Um, I spoke out on
Facebook on my son's page

and found out that many
children are reaching out

and need that support.

And living through it, being
the parent, being Olivia,

they're asking me for help.

So I had, um, spoken out, and
a local news reporter asked

if I would be interested in
talking about Reasons Why,

which my daughter had been watching.

And I said I a hundred
percent support it.

People learned the
aftereffects of su1c1de

and the signs and symptoms up to it,

and you're preventing
people from choosing su1c1de.

Um, after that interview,
Joy Gorman reached out to me

and she asked if I'd be
willing to talk to Kate

'cause Kate wanted to know
what it's like to be the mom

rather than just reading a script.

And that was very meaningful to me
because Kate's not only acting it,

but she wants to feel the real
emotion, so I appreciated that.

So we could, you know, do something
positive with what we were doing.

- And that's how I ended up being here.
- [WELTEROTH] Mm.

She's amazing. Yeah, she's incredible.

[APPLAUSE]

Kate, you must feel a
tremendous responsibility, um,

to reflect the experiences
of parents like Suzanne

all over the country who've
experienced this in real life.

What was it like playing a
character who is in so much pain?

It was more, uh, just the
challenge of being as accurate

and as honest as I could be and, um...

And making sure too, because
it's a television show,

so it's not real life.

So to try to remain
honest with the thrust

of what Olivia's drive
is for this season,

which is, obviously, to find the truth.

And her anger is more
present in season ,

and her obsession,
hoping always to do honor

and make space for people who
have honestly had to go through it,

the unimaginable.

Suzanne, what was it like
watching Kate's performance?

And I am curious, how similar
was her experience onscreen

to your experience in real life?

It's wonderful to see that she's
able to take my own experience

and pull that into the show itself

and show that you have to
put on this face at times.

And then other times, you
just get lost in yourself.

And I saw that often in her
face, so that you're holding it in

and keeping everything that
you feel no one else understands

and nobody else feels.

- You did an amazing job showing that.
- Thank you.

- [KATE CHUCKLES]
- [APPLAUSE]

So, Marissa, um,

this season, we see a lot more
concerned parents in the mix.

They don't always
necessarily get it right.

But we do see conversations taking
place between parents and teens.

Why did you all choose

to put more of a spotlight
on parents this season?

This root trauma, Hannah's
death, rocked the community.

And if you are a parent,

and someone commits su1c1de
at your child's school,

how can that not be
part of the conversation?

But at the end of the day,
we just wanna show that...

a kid...

They might not tell you everything,

but if you show them that you're open,

we loved showing there is
an adult who will listen.

Why is it kids don't tell
their parents anything?

Are you afraid we won't understand?

Hopefully, you've found ways
to convey the message, that yes,

no matter what, even if I'm
angry, or I don't understand,

that I will always unfailingly
be here in some way.

And it's more about
listening than talking,

which I think is a pressure

that parents feel they need to
have the answers, and it's like...

- Or they need to fix it.
- Right.

And it's more about being there, and
we will find the answers together.

Because, of course,
no parent is ever ready

for everything that appears.

And maybe even bringing
in those opportunities,

knowing that perhaps we're in a place

where my child doesn't
want to talk to me

or is really not open.

I've had families I've worked with

where they're like, "We
brought in the younger uncle

and they were more
comfortable talking to him,"

or "I made sure they went to temple
and there was somebody there."

Or just trying to create
those opportunities,

- multiple opportunities.
- [WELTEROTH] Mm-hmm.

- We have to talk about Mr. Porter.
- [HSU] Yes.

He makes such a
transformation in this season.

I was hoping that we can chat.

About what?

About anything that you need.

- Derek Luke. He's amazing.
- Derek Luke is amazing.

Obviously, he's not here with us today.

But let's break down his character

and the transformation
that we see him go through.

So, Marissa, Mr. Porter seems
to be dealing with his guilt

by trying to fix things
at Liberty High School.

He goes from sort of being
apathetic to becoming an advocate.

- I've got it handled, Porter. Thanks.
- Sit.

[WELTEROTH] But we still see him

making some really obvious
mistakes in his methods.

We, in the writer's room, called
him "Season Mr. No-Fucks-Porter."

- Pardon my French.
- [ALL LAUGHING]

And it was... He knew...

- He does sort of lose all of his fucks.
- Yeah.

He knew his time was limited at Liberty.

And he really does have good intentions.

He wants to right his wrongs.
He knows that he failed Hannah.

But it is too late.

I'm dead.

[CERAR] And he has it all bottled inside

and it comes out in some
really messed up ways.

- [GRUNTS]
- We wanted to send him off right.

And we wanted to show that
he had so much to lose.

And he was risking his career by
doing what he did on the stand.

[SIGHS] Mrs. Baker, I didn't
mean to let your daughter down.

[SNIFFLES] I'm sorry.

We wanted, with Mr. Porter,
to... to make it clear

that he didn't have all
the training that he needed.

He was not equipped to handle this
as*ault that was brought to him.

He was not... He didn't
know how to help Hannah.

Some girl, somewhere right now...

she's going through, you
know, what you're feeling,

and I don't want her to die.

That was important to us.

We didn't wanna make it
seem like school counselors

are terrible people.

He's a great person. He failed.
He didn't have all the tools.

And he says that. He tries
to help even when he leaves.

And he gives that file and says
these are the kids to watch.

I understand a school
can't provide everything.

Their primary goal is education.

However, being the main place
that kids are, eight hours a day,

school-based services are
actually the most effective way

to reach kids where they are,
where they're comfortable.

But there's a lot of questions
that parents should be asking.

Does this counselor got
a caseload of kids?

Are they a guidance counselor only
by training or a clinical counselor?

Or a school psych... I mean,
they're all different specialties.

And I think we don't always how
to ask is this the right one?

And to advocate and demand for that.

Suzanne, what was your
experience at your son's school,

specifically with the
adults at the school?

They felt that they had the
resources that they needed available,

but they picked and chose what
classes to provide those resources for.

For example, my daughter is a
freshman at that high school,

and she was not aware

that they had grief
counselors there at the school.

So it's so important for schools to know

that when they do have
a program available

and they wanna believe that
they're doing the right thing,

that they provide the
resources to everyone.

[WELTEROTH] Mm-hmm. Yeah.

I just wanna give a very
special thanks to you, Suzanne,

for being willing to share your story,

- for being willing to speak with Kate.
- [APPLAUSE]

I mean, it takes a lot of
strength and bravery to do that.

So Kate, what is it like to be a part

of this Reasons Why phenomenon?

It's just... I don't have
words. There are no words.

You're like, "Well, clearly,
this needs to be talked about."

These very important issues of
gender discrimination, sexual as*ault,

su1c1de, mental health, abuse, racism.

All of the issues that are coming
up, none of them are comfortable.

And the truth of the matter is we
are talking about it. This is...

We don't have to have all the
answers, but this is the truth.

It's happening. Let's talk
about it. It's not comfortable.

It's the right time.

It's the right time for us to
be having these conversations.

- Yeah.
- It's an extraordinarily powerful time

to be a storyteller, to be an artist,

and to be a part of
this larger movement,

hopefully, towards progress.

- Yeah, yeah.
- Right?

Thank you to all of
you for being here today

- and having this conversation.
- [APPLAUSE]

Thank you for watching
Beyond The Reasons.

We hope that this has
been a useful platform

to help you process
everything you saw in season .

And more than that,

we hope that you continue these
important conversations on your own.

If you or anyone that
you know needs help,

you can go to ReasonsWhy.info
for resources in your area.