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*MINDHUNTER*
Season 01 Episode 09
Title: "Episode #1.9"
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- It's like meeting a movie star.
- Could be as anti-climactic.
- "Crime of the Century."
- Until Charles Whitman two weeks later.
I remember staring at this wanted poster
of him, trying to figure out...
if I saw him on the street,
would I know he was insane?
- You clip all these?
- Everything I could get my hands on.
Even went to my neighbors who subscribed
to newspapers outside of Milwaukee.
Holden and his first criminal crush.
I was home for the summer from college.
It really made an impact.
Nancy didn't sleep for a week
when it hit the front page.
She'd just started nursing school.
It still makes the news.
We should've let that suffice
as our interview.
- Saved ourselves a trip out here.
- He lied all through it.
Why? You don't think he'll lie to us?
Wonder how Bob Greene got him to talk.
Probably by kissing his ass.
He called him a romantic figure.
He's as bad as you.
You would really turn down the chance
to meet Richard Speck?
He's almost up there with Manson.
Well, maybe he'll give you an autograph.
That would be inappropriate, right?
Sign in.
All right. Go ahead.
Deputy Warden Armstrong.
Holden Ford. This is Bill Tench.
- The headshrink guys?
- Behavioral Science Unit.
Thanks for accommodating us.
You're the ones
who painted this place pink?
The feds. You know, some psychology thing.
The color pink
was supposed to keep the animals calm.
How'd that work?
I don't know.
They ate it off the bars
before we could find out.
- Is this the only way through?
- This is the way.
We prefer to come in quietly, make it look
like a civil rights investigation.
Look around,
how am I supposed to hide you?
We didn't want him to be seen as a snitch,
suffer reprisals.
As far as I'm concerned, he could suffer
the burning flames of hell for eternity.
- Okay, but that's not what we agreed to.
- God, take it easy.
We pulled him to toss his cell.
Do it twice a month.
It'll look like business as usual.
Armstrong.
From his groupies.
How does a man who slaughtered
eight women have groupies?
Hundreds of them.
Keeps the whole prison stocked in smut.
Stay behind me.
You g*dd*mn m*therf*cking shits!
Get off of me! I'll f*ck you up.
I'll f*ck you so hard, your assh*le
will come out your m*therf*cking mouth!
- Take it easy, Speck.
- Get your f*cking mitts off of my sh*t!
Son of a bitch!
f*ck your mama's hairy f*cking assh*le,
you cock-sucking peckerwood!
sh*t-bag, m*therf*cking twat!
I'm gonna sh*t in your g*dd*mn
f*cking poontang, you f*ck-ass...
Get off me, you cr*cker!
I ain't talking to the m*therf*cking FBI!
I wouldn't say that too loudly,
if I were you.
f*ck you in your f*cking mouth.
We'd like to have a conversation, Richard.
Or what do you go by?
I'm not talking to no f*gg*t feds.
Relax. We only want
background information.
Stick your background up your f*cking ass.
You're here,
and we're gonna ask you a few questions.
We can make it brief,
or you can scream your head off
and take all day.
You f*cking turned my cell out.
How'd you like it
if I looked up your f*cking cracks?
I wouldn't like it at all.
Going through your cell was not our idea.
Please.
Have a seat.
We're conducting interviews
with people who've been convicted
of violent crimes.
We'll be asking about family history,
antecedent behavior, and thought patterns
- surrounding the crimes...
- f*ck you, Hoover boys.
Our goal is to publish a statistical
analysis which will not include your name.
- You better know my name.
- I beg your pardon?
"Beg your pardon." f*ck you.
We know your name.
Everybody knows your name.
Who else you talking to?
People who've been convicted of
similar violent crimes.
- I'm not like them.
- No?
Don't think
you've committed violent crimes?
I didn't say that.
How are you not like them?
Them f*ckers are crazy.
Is that a bird?
Where'd you get it?
It had a broken wing.
I fed it meatloaf through an eyedropper.
Oh...
Did you give it a name?
They let you keep a pet here?
As long as I suck their dicks.
It won't surprise you, Richard,
that we want to talk about July 14, 1966.
You'd been drinking since the morning,
is that correct?
You'd gone a few times
to the Maritime Union
to see about getting a job,
but nothing had panned out.
Did this influence your state of mind?
You drank at the Shipyard's Inn Tavern
until after 10:00 p.m.,
when you walked over a mile
to 2319 100th Street.
Did anything about the nurse's apartment
catch your eye?
Was it your intention to commit robbery
when you went to the door?
May I see your... tattoo?
I read about it.
I collected these pieces on you.
The tattoo is kind of legendary.
I always wondered what it looked like.
You're gonna have to roll up my sleeve.
Okay.
Well, come here, then, little boy.
You want to pet my bird, too?
Uh, no. Thanks.
You went to the nurse's apartment,
knocked on the door,
one of the young women answered it.
You flashed a Kn*fe at her,
pushed your way inside,
realized there were several women home.
Was it still your intention to rob them
at this point?
At what point did you decide to k*ll them?
- I'm sorry.
- What?
I gotta ask.
What gave you the right
to take eight ripe c**ts out of the world?
Some of them looked pretty good.
You ever think you were depriving
the rest of us?
Eight hot pieces of ass.
You think that's fair?
You're crazy.
That's a fine line
that separates you from me.
How the hell did you even f*ck
eight women the same night?
What do you eat for breakfast, gunpowder?
- All right.
- I didn't f*ck all of them.
That story got blowed
all out of proportion.
- I only f*cked one of them.
- The one on the couch?
- That's right.
- Why her?
- Could've f*cked all of them.
- Why didn't you?
They kept coming.
One after the other.
What'd you do
when they came home?
I put one in the bedroom,
one in the closet.
You corralled them like ponies?
- That's right. Tied them up.
- Why'd you k*ll them?
Once I k*lled one,
I had to k*ll all of them.
Why'd you k*ll the first?
She was crying and all,
she was f*cking loud.
You told Bob Greene she spit in your eye,
said she'd pick you out of a lineup.
That son of a bitch,
I should've never talked to him.
- Why not?
- He got the whole place all riled up.
- I just wanted to kick back.
- Do your heroin, drink your hootch?
- That's right.
- Where do you get that stuff?
Got my sources.
- Made my own still.
- You made a still?
Hid it in a drawer in a guards' desk.
Right under their f*cking nose.
They couldn't figure out
what the stink was.
Was that true about the first girl?
She spit at you?
- Because they all sounded pretty timid.
- All right, she got after me.
I told her to shut up.
- Did she shut up?
- She did what I said.
- Then why k*ll her?
- 'Cause I wanted to.
How'd you do her?
Choked her.
Took forever.
Is that why you stabbed the others?
- It was faster?
- That's right.
Originally, you told them you weren't
gonna k*ll them, just rob them.
I guess I f*cking lied.
- Maybe you got overwhelmed?
- No.
I just decided to k*ll them.
Except the one.
She was a sneaky bitch.
Hid under a bed.
You know,
I never did have much use for math.
And all them girls, I lost count.
And there was blood f*cking everywhere.
Yep, they all looked dead to me.
They'd done nothing,
except maybe start crying
when they realized this was it.
Ever wonder why you did it?
No.
- Not even curious?
- I don't think about it at all
until peckers like you show up.
What about when you tried to off yourself?
Don't know what you're talking about.
- In that motel.
- I didn't do that.
- Well, you slashed your wrists.
- f*ck no!
- That was a fight.
- What?
- How I got cut.
- Who'd you fight?
Some river co*n trying to hustle.
- Just happened to be on both wrists?
- I k*lled that m*therf*cker.
- You k*lled him, too?
- sh*t, yeah.
- I didn't see that in the paper.
- Because nobody gives a f*ck about that.
You lost a lot of blood.
- Did it hurt?
- I didn't feel f*cking nothing.
- Do you still feel nothing?
- That's right.
- It feels good, feeling nothing.
- Sure.
Are you sure,
when you slashed your wrists,
you didn't feel bad about those girls?
I told you, I didn't do that.
Maybe you weren't feeling bad
about the girls.
Maybe you were feeling sorry for yourself.
f*ck you, peckerhead!
You know why those c**ts d*ed?
Because it just wasn't
their f*cking night.
Well, that was f*cked up.
When he started talking about feeding it
through an eyedropper,
I actually felt sorry for the guy.
We really should videotape
these interviews.
Audio is never gonna do it justice.
A video archive
of our most violent offenders.
Imagine that for posterity.
"It just wasn't their night."
You might want to consider
losing the tape.
What?
Or saying it got m*nled.
The recorder chewed it.
Why would I do that?
"Eight ripe c**ts."
- I was getting him talking.
- That excuse is wearing thin.
Bill, don't get caught up in semantics.
I don't like the language, and I know
at least one person who won't either.
- Am I supposed to be cowed by Wendy?
- I'm just saying...
You pushed back
when she reamed us about Brudos.
Because we got something worthwhile
from him.
I can do this stuff.
I can choke down the bile,
manufacture empathy,
when our subjects are
at least informative.
- You couldn't choke it down with Brudos...
- Shut up, let me finish.
But someone like Speck
isn't worth our time.
The fact that his death sentence
was commuted is a national disgrace.
We decided no one was
beneath our contempt.
That snail didn't change your mind?
- We can learn from snails.
- What did we learn?
That some subjects have no idea what's
behind the horrific acts they commit.
It was disgusting.
I don't want to be part of it.
- When did you get thin-skinned?
- I'm trying to warn you,
your attitude is gonna
bite you in the ass.
There is no dishonor in losing at least
the first three minutes of that tape.
Ladies and gentlemen,
we will be arriving at Dulles momentarily.
Please make sure
your seat belts are fastened.
Tray tables and seat backs should be
in their upright and locked position.
You know, Gregg...
there are some things in this interview
that were important to, uh...
But maybe best
kept off the permanent record.
He admits to raping only one of the women.
- We already knew that.
- Why does he bring it up?
He wasn't initially forthcoming.
I believe I asked him how he managed
to have sex with all those nurses.
Wait, you caught him off guard,
he told the truth?
- I guess so.
- This r*pe was committed reflexively.
The crime scene photos indicate
that she was facedown on the couch,
so she was already depersonalized to him.
It was probably just
a "what the f*ck" f*ck.
So he goes to the boardinghouse drunk,
looking for someone to rob.
And then he finds himself
in this situation with all these women.
He corrals them
and then he r*pes one of them.
- To prove he can?
- Statement of sexual competence.
Which he later exaggerates
in the interview,
- claiming he could have r*ped them all.
- He was bragging.
He turned his su1c1de attempt
into a bar fight.
Yeah, projecting machismo.
- "Born to Raise Hell."
- Yes.
It would be interesting to know
how old he was when he got that tattoo.
Because that was the conscious decision
for him to brand himself a badass.
We didn't get much history.
The bird in the fan kind of ended things.
That moment? Vintage Speck.
You had just accused him of cowardice
by attempting su1c1de.
And nobody born to raise hell
is a coward.
The bird was just further demonstration.
I like the part where he doesn't want
to be lumped in with other subjects
- because they're crazy.
- Again, projection of self-image.
Speck is powerful, superior, exceptional.
But did we learn anything new?
Anything that wasn't in our files?
He had no idea
what he was going to do.
Every single act he committed was...
spontaneous.
We knew that.
Speck was so out of it,
the woman who answered the door
was the only one he forgot to k*ll.
Yeah, but to hear him say it,
that's extremely valuable.
We need terminology to distinguish
a Kemper from a Speck.
One drives around with ropes, knives,
plastic bags in his trunk
and returns to a specific hunting ground
looking for specific prey,
while the other just
happens upon his victims.
Organized and disorganized?
No. Those terms describe procedure.
I'm looking...
For example,
Charles Whitman is similar to Speck.
He k*lled 14 people in 90 minutes.
- He's not a sequence k*ller, he's...
- Whitman was on a spree.
His victims weren't selected.
- Just wasn't their night.
- Bill?
Spree is good for Speck or Whitman.
But I think sequence k*ller is wrong
for someone like Kemper.
- It feels too cadenced.
- Perhaps.
It should feel like a long story.
Continually updated.
A series of killings.
- Serial?
- Serial m*rder*r?
Serial k*ller?
That's better. Let's see if it sticks.
- Six more years?
- At least.
Another year to complete my Masters,
a year of exams
to get a doctoral candidacy,
and the dissertation takes two if you're
extremely motivated, usually four.
- You drink out of these?
- Just the one that's drying.
Store them upside down.
- Anyway, I'll be 30 before I get my PhD.
- That's still impressive.
Is that why I'm doing this?
Who am I trying to impress?
- I thought you loved this stuff.
- "This stuff"?
Yeah, the sociological constructs
that you're always espousing.
- The Goffman and the Higel...
- Hegal.
- Hegal.
- I knew it.
In one ear, out the other,
little Debbie's stuff.
I'm talking generally,
not trying to minimize...
You perk up when I talk about something
that has to do with your work,
- but the rest of the time...
- I don't think you can put this on me.
You've made it clear
I'm not to get between you and your...
"Stuff." Maybe that's all this is.
Maybe that's why I'm wondering if I want
to spend the rest of my life...
Just now doing the math?
Not all of us land feet first
in our ideal vocation, Mr. Ford.
- You think that's me?
- You've found this microscopic niche
interviewing freaks,
and you couldn't be better...
- Hello?
- Mr. Ford, I have a Mrs. Wade to see you.
- Who?
- Uh, she says...
What is this regarding, ma'am?
- She's the wife of someone you had fired.
- Oh.
She says to remind you
of someone named Roger.
Okay.
If you'd like, I can call somebody.
Send her up.
What?
What is it?
Mr. Ford?
Mrs. Wade.
That's right.
How did you find me?
It took a while.
You might not want to follow
a federal agent.
There could be consequences.
You're just a kid.
- What do you want?
- So young to be ruining people's lives.
- Mrs. Wade.
- I'm sure you're aware
that Roger was let go
by the school district.
I was not aware.
Which means he can never again work
in Prince William County.
We've been in our home for 23 years.
We have a daughter who's still
in high school, so moving is impossible.
He's been looking for work
all over Virginia, Maryland, Delaware,
as a guidance counselor,
a substitute teacher.
But no one wants him near children.
And children are his life.
I am very sorry to hear that,
but I had nothing to do
with your husband...
I understand you told the superintendent
he could be a pedophile.
You've been misinformed.
So... you're saying
that you didn't talk to anyone?
- This was started by teachers.
- You mean Janet Ebner?
Roger was going against the wishes
of faculty and parents.
- He'd been given every opportunity to...
- He did nothing wrong!
I don't know what to tell you.
I almost don't know him anymore.
I've never seen him so morose.
He doesn't sleep.
I wake up in the middle of the night,
he's in the living room,
staring at snow on the television.
He's almost 50 years old.
We have three children,
two of them are studying to be teachers.
We were respected in the community.
Suddenly, people who've known us
for years
pretend they don't see him on the street.
Someone spray-painted "kiddie fucker"
on our driveway.
Would you like to come in?
You're very young as well.
Do you know what kind of person
you're married to?
We're not married.
Then there's still time.
What did you do?
Nothing.
- What am I looking at?
- Came in from the Atlanta field office.
Twelve-year-old girl r*ped and m*rder*d
after she got off the school bus.
Atlanta?
Adairsville,
60 miles northwest of Atlanta.
Contact the case lead,
see if he'll send us more info.
Lisa Dawn Porter disappeared after being
dropped off at the driveway to her house.
Her body was found in a wooded area,
ten miles away.
Cause of death was determined to be
blunt force trauma to the head,
probably from this rock.
Marks indicate manual strangulation
from behind.
- She was a cheerleader?
- Majorette.
They march with the school band,
twirl batons.
What else do we know about her?
Habits? Personality?
By all reports, she was a good girl.
No dr*gs, no alcohol,
no boyfriends anyone knows of.
Autopsy indicates that she was a virgin
before all this.
- Low-risk victim, low-risk setting.
- Her clothes were disheveled,
there was no debris on them,
no dirt, no leaves.
They think she was r*ped in a vehicle,
but k*lled in the woods.
- Disheveled how?
- The buttons were misaligned.
So she undressed,
probably when the unsub r*ped her,
and then she got dressed again
in a hurry.
He either allowed her to do it
or he encouraged it.
Mm-hmm.
He put the coat over her face?
That's how she was found.
It was yellow.
A young couple noticed it
walking through the woods.
What do you think that means?
If he places it over her head,
it's like he's covering up what he's done.
- He's ashamed?
- Okay.
That's consistent with her
getting dressed.
He's concerned for her.
In that way that child rapists
can be concerned.
Let's say there's shame.
What does that tell us about him?
- This might be his first m*rder?
- Good.
- He's young?
- How young?
Maybe another teenager?
Someone that knew her?
Strangulation. Even 12-year-olds
rarely comply, takes real strength.
- Mid to late 20s?
- That's where I'd put him.
He intercepted her between the bus stop
and her home only a short distance away.
It's possible he knew
when she was coming home from school.
The woods where she was found
is a known make-out spot for locals, so...
- he's likely from the area.
- Good.
- They knew each other?
- Can't assume that.
He could have threatened her
at g*n or knifepoint.
- Absolutely.
- If he knew her schedule,
then he probably planned the kidnapping,
which means he likely planned the r*pe.
But did he plan the m*rder?
What does the crime scene tell us?
He left the body in full view
at the scene of the m*rder.
- He left the m*rder w*apon by the body.
- And the yellow jacket?
- Um...
- It's the opposite of hiding her.
All of this indicates
a disorganized, spontaneous act.
He planned the r*pe,
he didn't plan the m*rder.
- He might even feel bad about it.
- Nice.
Thanks. So I should get back to them
and tell them what we're thinking.
Are they expecting to hear back?
Yeah. This isn't just an exercise, is it?
School bus dropped her off right there.
Eighty yards to the driveway,
a hundred yards to the house?
Did she even make it
to the driveway?
Well, her mother was home.
She didn't see anything, hear anything.
So he probably picked her up on the road.
We think someone was waiting for her,
knew when the bus would drop her off.
- Think she knew him?
- Unclear.
You checked out family, friends?
Looking into it. No red flags so far.
We're sure there's no boyfriend
in the picture?
All her girlfriends say no,
even on the sly.
Was she popular?
Family said she was... gregarious.
- Majorette?
- Mm-hmm. That's right.
The outfit is flashy. Shows off her legs.
Might have been what caught his eye.
Did she wear it to school?
They found it in her backpack.
A stranger who knew her schedule.
He must have been watching her.
- Who would have reason to be out here?
- This is farmland.
Seasonal workers?
Well, I can check.
The area where she was found,
it was familiar to locals?
It's known as a lovers' lane.
- Lovers' lane?
- Jesus.
- Could he have thought of it as a date?
- He truly was not thinking ahead.
We don't believe the unsub
planned the m*rder.
He certainly didn't try to cover it up.
Like Gregg said,
if he knows about a lovers' lane,
he could be from the area.
And it might not be his first r*pe.
See what records you've got on young men
in the Floyd and Bartow Counties.
- Yep.
- How often does this get done?
- Hm?
- The trees.
They've been cleared
around the power lines.
Oh...
Well, this is rural Georgia.
Not very often.
Well, those limbs are freshly cut.
You think a service crew
might have been out here?
Thank you.
I just got off a call with Floyd County.
They say they recently questioned a guy
about the r*pe of a 13-year-old girl.
He works for a tree-limbing service.
- He spent a week on the Porter's street.
- Bingo.
Name's Darrell Gene Devier,
24 years old.
High school dropout.
Was in the army, went AWOL,
discharged after seven months.
- Couldn't handle the m*llitary.
- Disorganized.
- Makes sense.
- Single? Married?
Married and divorced twice.
Living with his first ex-wife.
Sexually and socially competent,
if indecisive.
Can't get over the young girls.
Every afternoon,
he watches Lisa get off the bus.
She's got a sunny disposition,
maybe she even talks to him.
He sees her in her majorette outfit.
It makes her look a little older than 12,
and he's able to justify
his attraction to her,
maybe even fantasize
that she would enjoy having sex with him.
But once he's assaulted her,
she is terrified,
she's in pain, she's crying.
Not fun. The fantasy's over.
He realizes, to get away with it,
he has to k*ll her.
Has her get dressed, he'll let her go.
When she turns around, he strangles her.
It's harder than he thought,
he can't finish.
So he picks up a rock.
After, perhaps shocked
at what he's done or ashamed,
he puts the coat over her head.
We're getting a warrant
to search his car.
- We'll bring him for a lie detector test.
- Not recommended.
The outcome of the polygraph can depend
on the quality of the questions.
We use it all the time.
It's standard procedure.
If he's a sociopath, he doesn't register
emotions the way we do.
Wait, you said he might be ashamed
for what he's done.
- Now, how's that square with a sociopath?
- Murdering a little girl?
He had the confidence
to take a human life.
If he beats the polygraph,
he'll think he's Superman.
Thanks for coming up.
It's always a pleasure to see daylight.
What's the bad news?
We have a branch
of the Department of Justice
called the Office
of Professional Responsibility.
That sounds very bad.
They look into allegations
of official misconduct.
Usually there's nothing to it,
but they can make your life difficult.
They are considering investigating
the unit for a civil rights violation.
Is this about Brudos?
This is about Richard Speck.
He was jumped by a couple inmates
after the interview
conducted by Agents Tench and Ford.
Claimed they made a public show
of his meeting with the FBI,
didn't respect his safety.
How the agents interact with the prison
administration is not my purview.
Understood. That's not really the charge
I'm worried about.
Speck also wants to cite Agent Ford
for "f*cking with his head."
Anything specific?
No, but we have all suffered
Agent Ford's head f*cking.
- Indeed.
- So it has an ominous ring of truth.
What is the format
for evaluating these subjects?
A short script and a questionnaire,
but the agents don't always adhere to it.
Why did you mention Brudos?
During his interview,
Brudos was obfuscating,
so the agents brought in a woman's shoe
to elicit a response.
Was that part of the script?
If I were being polite,
I'd call it bad improvisation.
I'm asking all of this because
no one's crying for Richard Speck.
He can file a complaint
and they are required to look into it.
But these internal affairs types
justify their existence by finding dirt,
and I want to make sure
there's nothing here.
- Nothing that I can think of.
- Good.
Tell the boys that the OPR would like
to see them at their earliest convenience.
They should take all their materials,
everything Speck-related.
You know, I don't want to be their boss.
I'll be the boss. You be the messenger.
All right.
f*cking Richard Speck filed a complaint?
That piece of sh*t.
We violated his rights.
Those morons at Joliet
didn't do a thing I asked.
Okay, so tell the OPR that.
It sounds like it is just a formality.
It's a pain in the ass.
It shows they're interested.
Take everything that you've got on Speck.
- Like what?
- Like the file, the tape, transcript.
You're coming with us.
Hey. Hey.
The transcript is fine.
Please state your names.
Special Agent William Tench.
Special Agent Holden Ford.
Special Agent Gregg Smith.
In what capacity do you serve
the Federal Bureau of Investigation?
For the record.
We're in the Behavioral Science Unit.
How would you summarize what you do?
- Research.
- Could you be more specific?
We're engaged in a study
funded by the Law Enforcement
Assistance Administration
and the National Institute of Justice
to interview criminals
convicted of violent crimes,
classify their behavior,
and create a profiling manual
for domestic law enforcement.
Hm.
You're here because we have complaints
filed against the Bureau
by the Illinois Department of Corrections
on behalf of an inmate
who claims you knowingly
put him in danger with your visitation.
- Richard Speck.
- That's right.
If I may, we made arrangements
that we felt would guarantee his safety.
When we arrived,
the deputy warden took it upon himself
to ignore all of them.
- Were these verbal arrangements, written?
- Written.
I have their faxed agreement to our terms.
Agent Ford, you're directly named
in the complaint.
The inmate said you, quote,
"f*cked with his head," unquote.
I'm sure the nature of my questioning
brought back uncomfortable memories.
- You asked him about...
- The night he k*lled eight women.
His sexual performance. Stuff like that.
- Are these questions prepared in advance?
- We work from this.
But every subject is different.
We usually have to improvise.
With Speck, I applied
a slightly aggressive interview style,
tried to speak his language.
Speak his language?
Get into his rhythm.
I'm assuming you have a record
of the interview.
We have a transcript.
Gregg?
- Where did this come from?
- Tape of the interview.
Tape? You have the tape?
We reuse our tapes.
I'm afraid that we erased that interview.
You erased the interview?
Yes.
We recommend you do not do that
in the future.
No, sir.
I'm assuming your funding would cover
the purchase and archiving of audio tapes.
Yes, sir.
Are there other materials
you have to share with us?
These are the pre-
and post-interview notes on the inmate.
Should be everything.
Gentlemen, we'll review these
and keep you updated on our findings.
What we expect from you
during this process,
more than anything, is candor.
Richard Speck, what a sh*t stain, huh?
Read to the end.
We should have kept the tape
just for that.
- Fascinating.
- Thanks, guys.
I'm soaking.
I sweat right through my shirt.
- I noticed.
- I'm not good at this.
It's over, you did fine.
What should we do with the tape?
Destroy it?
Probably. Where is it?
- In my desk.
- Just give it to me.
This whole thing makes me nervous.
You said that, Gregg.
It's a prison interview, not Watergate.
- What's going on?
- Maybe you can tell us that.
Holden, would you care to do the honors?
What did you tell
the Office of Professional Responsibility?
Nothing. There was nothing there.
We gave them a transcript, that's all.
So you're in on this, too?
Well, Agent Ford approached me...
Do not say, "Holden made me do it."
Sorry, I apologize.
I don't even know where to begin. Wendy?
"Eight ripe c**ts"?
- Sure, let's start there.
- Jesus, not this again.
Did you have Gregg redact it?
- So you must have known it was sensitive.
- Sensitive for some people.
- Meaning me.
- I don't like it either.
We can't like everything we do.
We're talking to serial K*llers.
- "Serial K*llers"?
- New terminology.
So you're gonna say
and do whatever you want.
Never mind that we are answerable
to the LEAA and the NIJ.
This study is funded with Congressional
dollars, taxpayer money,
which means your interviews
are public record.
I would've left it as is.
I really don't have a problem
with this being public.
All of us have to go along
with what you consider to be appropriate?
We've never discussed what's appropriate.
- Of course we have.
- We haven't made decisions.
There's no procedural rule book
for how to talk to these people.
We spent a month drawing up
that questionnaire.
It is a framework for substantive input.
- It doesn't always work.
- You haven't let it work.
You're so impatient, you weren't in there
three minutes with Speck
before you got him going
with the c**t speak.
That's when he admitted
to raping only one of the women.
You want truffles,
you gotta get in the dirt with the pigs.
No, we don't.
We are the FBI.
Look at that board.
Look at our work.
Because of that, Bill and I
were able to identify a m*rder*r
last week in Georgia.
This is no longer a theoretical exercise.
That board is mostly the result
of background research,
not priceless gems
you seem to think you're mining.
It all goes together.
Everything we do
informs the bigger picture.
Right, and if our tactics blow back on us,
then the whole thing could be jeopardized.
We have at least 40 convicts to interview,
the data will aggregate...
There is no need to wait that long.
What happened in that meeting?
I lied. I outright lied to the OPR.
What did you say?
That I erased the Speck tape.
- You gave them the redacted transcript?
- Yes.
- They don't know about the "ripe c**ts."
- They don't care.
So we're all in on a little cover-up here.
I can't be part of a cover-up.
- You told them there was no tape.
- Well, I was, um...
I don't do deceit very well.
There is no way they will know
about the tape unless we tell them.
- We just don't say a thing.
- I disagree.
We turn the tape over
and be completely transparent.
If we're caught in a lie,
it'll be very bad.
- I'm okay with it.
- I started this thing.
It is not too late to go back to the OPR.
- And tell them what?
- The truth.
Easy for you to say, Wendy,
you're a consultant.
If they open an investigation,
which they will...
Leave it.
Burn the f*cking tape.
They don't give a sh*t about Speck.
Nobody does.
This can die right here.
We are not going to turn in the tape.
We're not going to speak about this
anymore. We will protect the unit.
But something is wrong here.
In my entire professional life,
I've never been put in a position
of having to withhold information
from the Bureau, and I resent it.
Moving forward, establish clear guidelines
for the behavior in these interviews,
and you will adhere to them.
I never want to listen to a tape
where I can't tell the difference
between my agent
and some incarcerated lowlife.
♪♪ The Alan Parsons Project's
"I Wouldn't Want to Be Like You" playing...
♪♪
♪♪
♪ If I had a mind to ♪
♪ I wouldn't want to think like you ♪
♪ And if I had time to ♪
♪ I wouldn't want to talk to you ♪
♪ Oh, I don't care ♪
♪ What you do ♪
♪ I wouldn't want to be like you
Yeah ♪
♪ If I was high-class ♪
♪ I wouldn't need a buck to pass ♪
♪ And if I was a fall guy ♪
♪ I wouldn't need no alibi ♪
♪ I don't care what you do ♪
♪ I wouldn't want to be like you
Oh, oh, oh ♪
♪ Back on the bottom line ♪
♪ Diggin' for a lousy dime, yeah ♪
♪ If I hit a mother lode ♪
♪ I'd cover anything that showed ♪
♪ Oh, oh, I don't care what you do ♪
♪ I wouldn't want to be like you, yeah ♪
♪ If I was high-class ♪
♪ I wouldn't need a buck to pass ♪
♪ And if I was a fall guy ♪
♪ I wouldn't need no alibi ♪
♪ I don't care what you do ♪
♪ I wouldn't want to ♪
♪ I wouldn't want to be like you
Ooh, ooh ♪
♪ I wouldn't want to be like you ♪
♪ Yeah ♪
♪ Ooh ♪
♪ Yeah ♪
♪ Ooh ♪
♪ Yeah ♪
♪ Ooh ♪
♪ Yeah ♪
♪ Ooh ♪