- Coffee? - Yeah, thank you.
How have you liked your stay?
What I've seen, I've liked.
Please to explain why l should agree to interview...
with pro-Zionist American media?
Because I think Hezbollah...
is trying to broaden into a political party right now,
so you care about what you're thought of in America,
and in America at this moment in time,
Hezbollah does not have a face.
- That's why. - Perhaps you approve journalism objectivity,
and I see the questions first.
Then I decide if l grant the interview.
No. We don't do that.
You've seen 60 Minutes and Mike Wallace,
so you know our reputation for integrity and objectivity.
You also know we are the highest-rated, most-respected...
TV magazine news show in America.
So, Mr. Wallace... Should he get on a plane or not?
Tell him I'll see him day after tomorrow.
That's good. That works.
You know, I want to ask you something. I know it sounds odd, but...
Hello? Sheikh?
Hello? Sheikh?
- Norman? - What? What?
Take your blindfold off.
Welcome to the world.
Fluctuating all over the place.
Anywhere we sh**t here, it's gonna be portable gennies and we'll run cable.
- Hello? - Mike, it's me.
We're on.
Hi, honey.
- Hi, Daddy. - What's new?
- Miss Loughrey gave me a star today. - Yeah? What for?
- For reading. - That's great.
A little early for cartoons, isn't it?
Okay.
Deborah? Debbie?
Oh, I didn't know you were home.
It's early, isn't it?
Gotta take Debbie to ballet.
Mommy!
Sweetheart, come on. Come on.
- She was playing with my Pooh doll again.
Slow down. Slow down. Slow down. Breathe deep. Breathe deep.
Slow down, honey. Slow down.
Slow down.
Here we go. Deep breaths.
- Deep breaths. - She was playing with the Pooh doll.
Pooh's dusty, sweetheart. He's dusty, and you breathed him in.
Okay? So, what's happening to you... Look at me.
What's happening to you now is cells called mass cells...
told your lungs, " Don't breathe any more of that dust in."
And the airways in your lungs are like branches,
and when the branches close up, you get an asthmatic att*ck,
and we give you medicine, and you get better.
Uh-huh? Okay?
Better already, aren't you?
Okay, baby?
Can I go to dance tomorrow? L-l'm better.
If you are, then I'll take Barbara to soccer and take you to dance after.
I can take her.
Don't you have to be at the office?
- Is there any more rice? - Yes, it's on the stove.
Do you want more rice?
- May be later. - How about you?
- l'll take some. - Instant rice?
Can l go ower to Jeanine's house?
- I'm sorry, darling. Have you seen my coffee mug? - Try the car.
Um, what are those boxes?
- I'm going to the store. You need anything? - What do you need at the store?
- Soy sauce. - Right now?
That's my stuff from the office.
Why did you take your stuff from the office?
- I didn't want to leave it there. - I don't understand.
I got fired this morning.
Where else am I gonna take it?
Why? Who said?
Thomas Sandefur.
What are we supposed to do?
What about our medical coverage? What about our health?
What about our... car payments? The payments on this house?
The severance agreement includes cash payoffs over time...
and continuing medical coverage.
Sure you don't need anything?
No, thank you.
Jeffrey?
I am very pleased to receive you as my guest, Mr. Wallace.
- Well, thank you for having us. - Think l got a problem with the gennie.
I gotta go outside.
Give me a hand with this, will you?
Norman!
- He says, uh, you must not sit so close. - What?
I can't conduct an interview from back there.
You must move back your chair.
Well, you tell him that when I conduct an interview,
I sit anywhere I damn please.
- There is no interview. - You!
I'm talking to you! What the hell do you think I am, a 78-year-old assassin?
You think I'm gonna karate him to death with this notepad?
- Are you interpreting what I'm saying? - Yes.
- We're there. - Good. Well, ask him if Arabic is his second language.
Don't interpret that. Hold it.
Hold it! Hold it! Slow. Slow.
Sheikh, do you mind?
If you would just turn your chair a little bit...
to face Mr. Wallace.
- Is that okay? - Okay.
Are you ready, or do you wanna keep f*cking around...
and warm up some more?
- No. I've got my heart started. - Okay.
All right, Todd.
Give me the three-button on Mike, please.
Good. Good.
Okay, we are rolling.
- Okay, Mike. - Sheikh Fadlallah.
Thank you so much for seeing us. Are you a t*rror1st?
Mr. Wallace, I am a servant of God.
A servant of God? Really?
Americans believe that you... As an lslamic fundamentalist...
that you are a leader who contributed to the bombing of the U.S. Embassy.
Everybody thinks Canadian Mounties ride horses and rescue ladies from rapids.
Mike, they backed locals in Oka in a fight with Mohawks...
over building a golf course on their burial site,
they b*at up protesters at Kanasake...
- Where'd you hear that? - Hello.
Oh, someone took a poll? "Are all things Canadian boring?"
- It's Stuart. He's in Mexico City. - Oh. Let me call you back.
Yeah, Stuart?
- What New York bank? - Hey, Dad.
Will he go on camera and talk about the Mexico City branch?
- Hey, Jake. - Whose money are they laundering?
- No classes this morning? - I don't have to be there till 1 0:30.
- Hey, Mom. Hello. - Hi, sweetheart.
- Hello? Yeah. - Do independent sources corroborate?
- Dad, you got a box out here. - Let me see this a second.
- 'Cause I gotta know where you're going at all times.
I can't. I've gotta fly to Boston tomorrow.
2:00 P.M. Great.
- Bye-bye. - "ignition propensity."
You understand any of this?
No.
Uh, this looks like a table of temperatures.
- Who's this from? - It's anonymous.
References to " P.M."
It's gotta be Phillip Morris, huh?
Hmm. I have to take a shower.
Yeah?
Hi. This is Doug Oliver.
Oh, hi, Doug. It's Lowell.
I'm doing this story on fire safety, and people burning up from falling asleep smoking.
I receive a sh*t load of scientific papers from inside Phillip Morris.
Anonymous. You or anybody in F.D.A. Know someone...
who can translate this stuff into English for me?
Uh, yeah.
- Hello? - Uh, Mr. Wigand, please?
Someone's calling for Daddy, Mom.
- Oh. Thank you, Bob. - Who's calling?
Uh, my name is Lowell Bergman.
- Did you say "Berman"? - No, Bergman. B-E-R-G-M-A-N.
- I'm a producer for 60 Minutes. - 60 Minutes?
- Yeah. - 60 Minutes, the television show?
- Yes. - He doesn't want to talk to you.
How does he know he doesn't want to talk to me? He doesn't know what I'm calling him about.
He doesn't care to know.
This is the Wigands'.
- If you'd like to leave a message or send a fax, start now.
This is Lowell Bergman with 60 Minutes, and l'm doing a story...
on fire safety and cigarettes.
I have scientific documents from a tobacco company,
and lcould use your help as a consultant...
explaining these documents tome.
Now, my number is area code 510-555-0199.
- I'll be there at this number in ten minutes.
If you're curious to meet me,
I'm gonna be in the lobby of the Seelbach Hotel in Louisville...
reading The New York Times tomorrow at 5:00.
Have you always lived in Louiswille?
Mr. Bergman, what did you want me to consult about?
Who's that?
That's room service.
They usually knock first.
Come on in.
Over here, please.
- Thank you. - How do you like your coffee? Black?
Black. Black.
I really don't have that much time.
Is there anything you want to know about me, Mr. Wigand?
Like what? Your sign?
I know what I have to know.
Just so I know you know, when I talk to people in confidence,
it stays that way.
How did a radical journalist from Ramparts magazine end up at CBS?
I still do the tough stories.
60 Minutes reaches a lot of people.
Let me see the documents.
This is a, um,
fire-safety product study for Phillip Morris.
Burn rates, ignition propensity, things of this nature.
I could very easily explain this to you in layman's terms...
because it's from another company.
- But that's as far as I go. - As far as you go where?
This issue is a drop in the bucket.
I can talk to you about what's in here, but l...
I can't talk to you about anything else.
I signed a confidentiality agreement. I honor agreements.
Doesn't CBS have confidentiality agreements, Mr. Bergman?
Between journalists and management, yes, I believe they do.
But I don't take that seriously. Where do you work?
Did work.
- Did work? - How much would I get paid?
That you have to discuss with CBS Business Affairs.
But for something like this, I would say anywhere between ten, 1 2 thousand.
Should I just take the documents now?
If you want to do it.
I worked as a, uh,
head of Research and Development for Brown & Williamson.
Tobacco company.
I was a corporate vice president.
Mr. Bergman.
President Assad of Syria said...
that difficult obstacles remain, but tha this country,
"looks forward to a great long peace with lsrael."
That's a Peabody, Mike.
When you're dead and buried, this is the one they're gonna remember you by.
- Are you eating with us? - Yeah.
- Bring a tie so they let us in the front door.
Come on.
- Debbie! - Hey, Lowell.
Oh, Bill. Main Justice is investigating a major New York bank...
Iaundering narco dollars out of their Mexico City branch.
- You want it for the news? - What about you? You got a crew already?
- I'm gonna do a follow-up. Catch you later. - Okay.
- Debbie. - How are you?
I want you to get Legal on a corporate confidentiality agreement.
- Okay. - Boundaries of their constraint,
Kentucky state law about...
- I want you to drop everything. - Okay.
- I don't have any change. You got some change? - Oh, here.
Tony.
Mr. Wigand? You can go up now.
Sorry. I'm accepting an award...
from the Retinitis Pigmentosa Foundation.
It's gonna k*ll the rest of my day.
So, have you had a chance to play golf?
Jeffs a premier golfer. What are you, a two handicap?
- Seven. - And he gets out there...
and he has five strokes on us.
He has more concentration than anybody I've ever met.
It's spooky how he can concentrate.
I'd rather play than talk about it.
What did you want to see me about?
I don't like being back here.
Jeffrey says exactly what's on his mind.
Most people consider what they're saying... social skills.
Jeffrey just charges right ahead.
Now, I know you understood the nature of the confidentiality portion...
of your severance agreement with Brown & Williamson.
- Chapter and verse. - Yeah, I know you do.
You know, I came up through sales.
One of the reasons I was a great salesman...
was I never made a promise I couldn't keep.
I knew that if l ever broke my promise,
I'd suffer the consequence.
Is that a thr*at?
We worked together for... What was it, three years?
Now, the work we did here is confidential, not for public scrutiny...
any more than are one's family matters.
You're threatening my family now too?
Now, don't be paranoid, Jeff.
About the direction of research here, we may have had our differences, but...
Research. You declare as a badge of honor you don't even know what makes water boil.
Well, that's why we hire scientists.
Okay.
I don't believe that you can maintain corporate integrity...
without confidentiality agreements.
I was paid well for my work,
the health and welfare benefits are good,
the severance package is fair.
I have no intention of violating my confidentiality agreement...
and disclosing that which l said l wouldn't.
I appreciate all that, Jeff,
but upon reflection, we've decided to expand our zone of comfort with you,
so we've drafted a supplement to your agreement.
It broadly defines and expands in more detail...
what is confidential.
Nobody will be able to say, "Well, hell's bells, Margaret,
I didn't know that was a secret."
We're very serious about protecting our interests.
We'd like you to sign it.
And if l don't?
If we arrive at the conclusion that you're acting in bad faith,
we would terminate right now payoffs under your severance package,
you and your family's medical benefits and initiate litigation against you, Mr. Wigand.
- Dr. Wigand. - Dr. Wigand.
If you've examined the document, you'll see it's in your own best interest...
and you'll sign it.
What you're saying is it isn't enough that you fired me for no good reason.
Now you question my integrity?
On top of the humiliation of being fired, you thr*aten me,
you thr*aten my family.
It never crossed my mind not to honor my agreement.
I will tell you, Mr. Sandefur... And Brown & Williamson too...
f*ck me? Well, f*ck you!
I'm not sure he got the message.
Oh, I think he did.
- Yeah. - You f*cked me!
- Who's this? - Protect your sources?
You screwed me. You sold me out.
- What are you talking about? Where are you? - f*ck you too!
Stay away from me.
You stay away from me!
Jeffrey, you forgot the lunches!
- Mrs. Wigand? - Jump in quick. Come on.
How do you do? I'm Lowell Bergman. We spoke on the phone.
- Come here. I want to talk to you. - Good. I want to talk to you.
- This is my house. In front of my wife, my kids? - I did not burn you.
I did not give you up to anyone.
- What business do we have? - I'm here to straighten something out with you.
Right here, right now.
You haven't mentioned my name? You haven't talked to anybody about me?
- What am I gonna mention your name for? - Why are Brown & Williamson...
How the hell do I know about Brown & Williamson?
It happened just after I talked to you. I do not like coincidences.
Well, I don't like paranoid accusations. I'm a journalist.
Think. Use your head. How do I operate as a journalist? By screwing the people...
who could provide me with information before they provided me with it?
- You came all the way down here to tell me that? - No, I did not.
Big Tobacco is a big story,
and you got something important to say. I can tell.
But yes, I did. I came all the way down here to tell you...
Story, no story... f*ck your story.
I don't burn people.
Ride with me while I take the girls to school.
My little girl has a cute asthma.
Deborah, my oldest daughter.
And I'm unemployed, so I have to protect my medical coverage.
So I left them a message this morning. Their expanded confidentiality agreement...
I will sign it.
- They're afraid of you, aren't they? - They should be.
Talk to me outside the zone of your agreement.
- Like what? - Like, uh, where'd you work before Brown & Williamson?
Johnson & Johnson.
Union Carbide in Japan.
I was the general manager and director of new products. I speak Japanese.
I was a director of corporate development at Pfizer.
All health-related.
What else outside the zone?
I don't know. Do you think the Knicks are gonna make it to the semifinals?
- Just give me an example. - Okay.
For example, um, James Burke.
- C.E.O. Of Johnson & Johnson. - Yeah.
When he found out that some lunatic had put poison in Tylenol bottles,
he didn't argue with the F.D.A.
He didn't even wait for the F.D.A. To tell him. He just pulled Tylenol...
off every shelf of every store right across America, instantly.
And then he developed a safety cap.
Because as a C.E.O, sure, he's gotta be a great businessman, right?
But he's also a man of science.
He's not gonna allow his company to put on the shelf a product that might hurt people.
Not like the Seven Dwarfs.
- Seven Dwarfs? - Seven C.E.O.s of Big Tobacco.
They got in front of Congress that time. It was on television.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Swore under oath that they know nothing about addiction...
It was on C-SPAN. Yeah.
Okay, so, here you are. You-You-You go to work for tobacco.
You come from corporate cultures where research...
really creative thinking... These are core values.
You go to tobacco. Tobacco is a sales culture...
market and sell enormous volume, go to a lot of golf tournaments.
The hell with everything else. What are you doing?
- Why are you working for tobacco in the first place? - I can't talk about it.
The work I was supposed to do...
might have had some positive effect, I don't know.
Could have been beneficial. Mostly, I got paid a lot.
I took the money. My wife was happy.
My kids had good medical, good schools. Got a great house.
I mean, what the hell is wrong with that?
Nothing's wrong with that. That's it. You're making money.
You're providing for your family. What could be wrong with that?
I always thought of myself as a man of science, that's what's wrong with it.
Then you're in a state of conflict, Jeff.
Because look, here's how it lays out.
If you've got vital insider stuff,
the American people, for their welfare, really do need to know,
and you feel impelled to disclose it...
and violate your agreement in doing so, that's one thing.
On the other hand, if you want to honor this agreement,
then that's simple... You do so.
You say nothing, you do nothing.
There's only one guy who can figure that out for you,
and that's you all by yourself.
I gotta go pick up the girls. They only had a half a day.
l've heard virtually all the... We touched on it...
- Yes or no, do you believe nicotine is not addictive? - Congressman,
cigarettes and nicotine clearly do not meet the classic definitions of addiction.
- There is no intoxication. - We'll take that as no.
Again, time is short.
I think each of you believe nicotine is not addictive...
and just would like to have this for the record.
I believe that nicotine is not addictive.
I too believe that nicotine...
He referred to this... The Sewen Dwarfs...
- What Seven Dwarfs? - The seven C.E.O. of Big Tobacco... Referred to this.
Said they should be afraid of him. I assume afraid of what he could reveal.
Now you tell me. What does this guy have to say that threatens these people?
Well, it isn't cigarettes are bad for you.
- Hardly new news. - No sh*t.
- What's this? - What that is is tobacco's standard defense.
It's the "we don't know" litany.
Addiction? We believe not. Disease? We don't know.
We take a bunch of leaves, we roll them together, you smoke 'em.
After that, you're on your own. We don't know.
So, that tells me nothing.
- Besides, you'll never get what he's got. - Why not?
Because of this guy's confidentiality agreement,
he's never gonna be able to talk to you.
That's not good enough. This guy is the top scientist...
in the number-three tobacco company in America.
He's a corporate officer. You never get whistle-blowers from Fortune 500 companies.
This guy is the ultimate insider.
He's got something to say. He wants to say it. I want it on 60 Minutes.
- Doesn't matter what he wants. Am l missing something here?
- What do you mean, Mike? - He's got a corporate secrecy agreement.
Give me a break.
This is a public health issue, like an unsafe air frame on a passenger jet...
or some company dumping cyanide into the East River.
Issues like that. He can talk, we can air it.
They've got no right to hide behind a corporate agreement. Pass the milk.
They don't need the right. They got the money.
The unlimited checkbook. That's how Big Tobacco wins...
every time on everything.
They spend you to death. $600 million a year in outside legal.
Chadbourne-Park, Ken Starr's firm, Kirkland and Ellis.
Listen, G.M. And Ford, they get nailed...
after 11 or 12 pickups blow up, right?
- These clowns have never... I mean ever... - Not even once.
Not even with hundreds of thousands dying each year from an illness...
related to their product have ever lost a personal injury lawsuit.
On this case, they'll issue gag orders, sue for breach... anticipatory breach...
enjoin him, you, us, his pet dog, the dog's veterinarian,
tie 'em up in litigation for ten or 15 years, I'm telling you, they bat a thousand.
Every time. He knows that. That's why he's not gonna talk to you.
Okay, let's look through the looking glass the other way.
What do you mean?
We got a guy who wants to talk, but he's constrained.
- What if he were compelled to talk? - Oh, t*rture. Great ratings.
What do you mean, "compelled"?
I mean, compelled by a, uh, Justice Department.
State courts. Be a witness.
That would cut through any confidentiality agreement, wouldn't it?
- What does that do? - What do you mean, what does it do?
What I mean is like, how does it cut through the confidentiality agreement?
Because he has to, uh, reveal it in a court of law.
It's on record. It's out. It's no secret anymore.
So how can they restrain his speech or retaliate? It's out in the world.
If you could engineer it into the court record, you might have something.
They would have a hell of a time trying to restrain his speech then, wouldn't they?
Yeah, but what venue? And where does he get... Does he have k*ller attorneys?
I don't think he's got any attorneys.
He's gonna need attorneys who aren't afraid of risking years of litigation...
and millions of dollars of their own dough in legal costs.
What do you say, Mike? What do you think?
Even if he gets the defense team,
will he go for it?
You're awfully over qualified, Dr. Wigand.
I'm trying to start a new career.
I believe I could be a good teacher.
Let me give it some thought.
And not a lot of companies in the health care field hire ex-tobacco scientists.
That's it.
It's where our babies were born.
Debbie took her first steps right there on...
In the grass.
- I didn't plan on this. - Hey, hey, hey.
Come on. Come on.
We can make this work for us. Okay?
It's just... It's not...
It's just... It's a smaller scale.
Simpler, easier.
More time. More time together.
More time with the kids.
More time for us. Okay? It's just...
Can you imagine me coming home from some job...
feeling good at the end of the day?
This is gonna be better.
This is gonna be better.
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- Back to... - Welcome back.
Hey, baby. What's wrong?
Who's that outside, Daddy?
- Did you see somebody or did you hear them? - I heard him.
- Where? - In the backyard.
Sit at Daddy's desk, okay? Why don't you sit up at the desk.
All right?
Get out some paper, and draw me a picture. Okay?
What are you gonna draw me, baby? An animal? Something like that?
You stay down here until Daddy gets back, all right, Barbara?
You stay down here.
You almost got your damn head blown off.
Daddy!
It was just a racoon, baby. Nothin'.
They're nocturnal. You know what that means?
That means that they only come out at nighttime.
- Yeah. - Lowell. Jeffrey Wigand.
- Yeah. - Lowell. Jeffrey Wigand.
Is it too late?
No, no, it's okay. I...
How-How's the new place?
The new place? New.
- You okay? - Sure.
I was thinking of calling you tomorrow anyway.
- Uh, how's your kids, uh, handling the new house? - Good.
- You got kids? - We have a couple.
One's hers, one's mine. Everybody uses a different name.
Modern marriage.
Uh, how's Liane?
Uh, she's okay. Uh...
Hold on a minute.
Lowell.
Somebody may be following me. I-l don't know. They came on the property.
What do you mean, following you? Did you call the police?
I-l don't wanna be paranoid. I mean...
- Maybe it's a game. Some kind of mind game. - What do you really think?
I don't know what the f*ck I really think.
Are they doing it? Is some crank doing it?
Are they doing it to make me feel paranoid?
Are they doing it for real and don't give a sh*t what I think? I don't know.
- I don't f*ckin' know. - Jeffrey, describe for me...
in detail what happened.
Well...
No. Look, I mean, there was a footprint. Forget it.
It's probably not important at all.
You know, I got a job now. I'm teaching high school. Japanese and Chemistry.
Uh, so, uh, what were you calling about?
- You called me. - No, you said you were gonna call me tomorrow.
- So, what about? - Oh, yes, yes, yes. I did. I wanted to talk to you.
I wanted to hook up with you, talk to you about what we were talking about in your car.
Okay.
It makes you feel good, putting what you know to use?
- How'd you know that, Lowell? - It's obvious, isn't it?
Hello? Are you there?
Yeah.
Look, um...
Thanks for talking. I'm sorry I woke you up.
- I didn't know. - It's okay.
Lowell.
Who is this?
Donot call here! Donot...
What are you gonna get us?
Tempura.
The lnternet said you did graduate work at Wisconsin,
then went to U.C. La Jolla with Professor Herbert?
- Marcus... - Marcuse. Yeah.
He was my mentor.
He had a major influence on the New Left in the late '60s.
And on me, personally.
- Next to your father? - My father?
What the hell's that got to do with my father?
I, uh...
Is that why you became a journalist? Then you get to ask all the questions?
You charge by the hour?
My father was a... A mechanical engineer.
Most ingenious man I ever knew.
My father left us when I was five years old.
He was not the most ingenious man I ever knew.
Let's get back to Brown & Williamson. If you decide to go on 60 Minutes,
I gotta know everything about why you were fired.
- Why? - They're gonna dig up stuff from your past.
They're gonna throw it at you. I gotta know what they're gonna throw.
You understand?
I drink.
- Couple of occasions more than I should have. - Um-hmm.
I was cited for shoplifting once, but it was a mistake.
Pushed Liane one time. We were both stressed out because of the pressure.
She went to her mother's.
I got, uh, fired, because, uh,
when I get angry, I have difficulty censoring myself,
and I don't like to be pushed around.
I'm not pushing you around. I'm asking you questions.
I'm just a commodity to you, aren't l?
I could be anything, right? Anything worth putting on between commercials.
To a network, probably, we're all commodities.
To me, you're not a commodity. What you are is important.
You go public, and 30 million people hear what you gotta say,
nothing... I mean nothing... Will ever be the same again.
- You believe that? - No.
You should. Because when you're done the judgement...
is gonna go down in the court of public opinion, my friend.
And that's... The power you have.
- You believe that? - I believe that?
- Yes, I believe that. - You believe that...
- because you get information out to people, something happens? - Yes.
Maybe that's just what you've been telling yourself all these years...
to justify having a good job.
Having status.
Maybe for the audience it's just voyeurism, something to do on a Sunday night.
Maybe it won't change a f*ckin' thing,
and people like myself and my family...
are left hung out to dry, used up, broke, alone.
Are you talking to me, or did somebody else just walk in here? I never...
Don't evade a choice you gotta make by questioning my reputation...
or 60 Minutes with this cheap skepticism.
I have to put my family's welfare on the line here, my friend.
- What are you putting up? You're putting up words. - "Words."
While you've been dicking around some f*cking company golf tournaments,
I've been out in the world givin' my word...
and backing it up with action.
Now, are you gonna go and do this thing or not?
I said I'd call the kids before they went to bed.
Stringer was supposed to be sh**ting B-roll on street cops in New Orleans.
- What's with all the horses? - Camera guy's got a thing about mounted police.
Don't any of these guys ride in cars? Walk?
- How long are these things? - What was he saying?
Hello. Yes, I'm trying to reach Mr. Richard Scruggs.
This is Richard Scruggs.
Can you hold on a second, please?
Lowell, got him on the phone.
- Hello, I'm Lowell Bergman. - Hold on.
Mobile Approach, this is Leo-November-643. Over.
Request a flight level of220...
on a heading of284 degrees. Over.
- Mr. Bergman? - Yes, I'm right here.
- Could you call me back on a hard line? - All right.
- Area code 21 2-555-01 99. - I'll call you then.
What do we do with that?
I don't know.
Richard Scruggs.
You filed a lawsuit against tobacco on behalf of the state of Mississippi.
- Did you not? - That's right.
I'm working with someone now who's the former head of research at Brown & Williamson.
Former corporate officer there.
What's your interest in this, Mr. Bergman?
Well, he may tape an interview with us,
and we believe if his testimony showed up in a court record first,
it would free him up from his confidentiality agreement and give him some protection.
It could work. If it's public record, it's public record.
Yeah, and he's gonna need legal representation.
He sure as hell will.
Has he decided to go public?
Because let me tell ya. We been doin' this for three years now,
and we've worked with a lot of corporate cases involving whistle-blowers.
So we know Big Tobacco will do everything in their power to stop him.
So is your man truly committed?
Well, actually, no... Well, he's on the fence. That's the point.
Well, we'd certainly be interested in making his acquaintance.
But without knowing what he's gonna do...
Would you want him to call you, or you wanna call him? How do you wanna do it?
It would be better if he called us.
- Yeah. Okay. - All right?
Okay. Thank you. sh*t.
We need cops on the streets. We don't need them on horses.
- I don't know what he was thinking. - For God's sake.
- This guy got a horse fetish? - All right, all right.
Get me, uh... Get me to New Orleans this afternoon.
I'll sh**t the f*cking thing myself!
- Have a good one. - All right.
What are you cooking?
- I'm cooking pasta primavera. - Oh, l love that stuff.
I'm going to have to go downstairs.
Jeffrey!
Jeffrey! Jeffrey!
Jeffrey! Jeffrey!
- What happened? - Dispatcher received a call of sh*ts fired in the area.
Uniforms arrived on the scene, found this white male subject sh*t to death.
- Was it g*ng related? - There's no indication...
as far as a tag or an advertisement.
Yeah.
They're terrorizing us. Death threats. My family, my kids.
Whoa. What are you talking about?
- Someone put a b*llet in my mailbox. - Jeff, call the F.B.I.
- Right away. - They do this with impunity.
- Jeff... - They get to go home at night.
What does it cost these people to do this to us? Nothing!
My girls are crying. So f*ck them.
- I wanna tape. I'm done... - I heard you.
I gotta arrange for a legal defense first.
I gotta get you to testify in court, get it on public record.
Then hold it off the air until you got that, but I wanna go to New York,
and I wanna go on the record... Right now.
- Good. But, Jeff... - I'll call them, Lowell.
Did you handle the round, Mr. Wigand?
Yes, I'm afraid I did.
We won't be able to lift usable prints.
Do you own a g*n, Mr. Wigand?
- A g*n? Yes. - What caliber is your g*n?
What caliber is my g*n?
Yes, sir. What caliber is your g*n?
What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
You think I put the b*llet in the mailbox myself?
If we could take a look, Mr. Wigand.
Why do you keep this g*n?
I don't think it's unconstitutional yet to own a g*n. I'm a target sh**t.
That b*llet was for a.38 caliber. Do you own a.38?
Yes, l do. A.38 Target Master in my g*n safe downstairs.
A.45 Gold Cup, a.22 target p*stol. So what?
Do you have a history of emotional problems, Mr. Wigand?
Yeah. Yes, I do.
Yes, I get extremely emotional when assholes put b*ll*ts in my mailbox.
I didn't tell you that so you could pick it up and take it away.
- Jeffrey! - What's going on?
I told them you had an e-mail death thr*at that told you...
if you didn't shut the " F" up, they were gonna k*ll you.
You can't take that. It's personal property. My personal correspondence,
Ietters to my brother, my will.
You all right?
That computer has every single...
You all right, Mr. Wigand?
We need to take a look at your g*n safe, Mr. Wigand.
I'm telling you... your agents in that office are acting improperly.
Now who are they trying to protect?
Let me, tell you something, Lowell. Look, look.
You're talking about two agents in a regional office in Louisville.
I got the goddamned Unabomber threatening to blow up L.A.X.
I gotta move 45 agents from all over the country into L.A.
All right? When I get a chance, I'll give it a look.
You better take a good look because I'm getting two things:
pissed off and curious!
Now, any of these guys been offered jobs in corporate security after they retire?
Either one of those guys got ex-agent pals already in those jobs?
Like, for instance, their ex-supervisor who's already at Brown & Williamson...
as we f*ckin' speak!
- I'll give it a look. - You're getting my drift?
I'll give it a look.
So is everything okay?
- How are the rooms? Comfortable? - Yes, very.
Do you know, I enjoy your work so much.
When you're talkin' to somebody, I always feel like I'm right there.
Thank you for saying that.
Do you think we could talk about the taping?
Tomorrow's taping? Just so we can get it out of the way and order.
Yeah, well, questions will go towards what work you did there, why you were fired and other...
Taping?
- What are you taping? - I'm doin' an interview.
An interview?
Do you know what they will do to us?
I thought we...
I'm sorry.
Liane, this is a preliminary...
You didn't tell her we were taping?
What did she think she was coming to New York for?
Talk about it, think about it. I had a plan to, uh, ease her into it,
but I really... I don't know how to do that.
Oh, man.
Who are these people?
Ordinary people under extraordinary pressure, Mike.
What the hell you expect, grace and consistency?
Five, four, three, two...
You heard Mr. Sandefur say...
before Congress that he believed nicotine was not addictive.
I believe Mr. Sandefur perjured himself...
because I watched those testimonies very carefully.
All of us did. I mean, there was this whole line of people,
whole line of C.E.O.'s up there swearing.
Part of the reason I'm here is that l felt...
that their representation clearly misstated...
at least within Brown & Williamson's representation...
clearly misstated what is common language within the company.
We are in the nicotine delivery business.
And that's what cigarettes are for.
Delivery device for nicotine.
A delivery device for nicotine.
Put it in your mouth, light it up and you're going to get your fix.
- You're gonna get your fix. - You're saying that Brown & Williamson...
manipulates and adjusts the nicotine fix...
not by artificially adding nicotine,
but by enhancing the effect of nicotine...
through the use of chemical elements such as ammonia.
The process is known as impact boosting.
While not spiking nicotine,
they clearly manipulate it.
There is extensive use of this technology, known as ammonia chemistry.
It allows for the nicotine to be more rapidly absorbed in the lung...
and therefore affect the brain and central nervous system.
The straw that broke the camel's back for me and really put me in trouble with Sandefur...
was a compound called coumarin.
When I came on board at B&W,
they had tried to transition from coumarin to a similar flavor...
that would give the same taste and had been unsuccessful.
I wanted it out immediately. I was told...
that it would effect sales, so I should mind my own business.
I constructed a memo to Mr. Sandefur indicating I could not in conscience...
continue with coumarin in a product that we now knew...
we had documentation... was similar to coumadin, a lung-specific carcinogen.
And you sent the document forward to Sandefur?
I sent the document forward to Sandefur.
I was told that we would continue to work on a substitute.
We weren't going to remove it as it would impact sales and that that was his decision.
ln other words, you are charging Sandefur...
and Brown & Williamson...
with ignoring health considerations consciously?
- Most certainly. - And on March 24,
Thomas Sandefur, C.E.O. Of Brown & Williamson,
had you fired.
And the reason he gave you?
Poor communication skills.
And you wish you hadn't come forward?
You wish you hadn't blown the whistle?
Yeah, there are times I wish I hadn't done it.
There are times I feel com... Compelled to do it.
If you'd asked me...
would I do it again, do I think it's worth it?
Yeah, I think it's worth it.
- Hi. - Hi.
My name is Jeff Wigand.
You can call me, uh, Mr. Wigand.
You can call me Dr. Wigand.
I have a Ph. D. in biochemistry and endocrinology.
You can call me Jeff.
Anything else you want to call me, you'll have to do so in private.
Um, okay.
I find chemistry to be magical.
I find it an adventure.
An exploration into the building blocks of our physical universe.
So how many of you have taken chemistry before?
Okay. I've never taught it before, so we're gonna be fine.
Our first experiment is gonna be measuring...
the molecular weight of butane.
He's on line three.
- Hello? - Mr. Scruggs? Jeff Wigand.
Lowell Bergman said I should give you a call.
My co-counsel, Ron Motley and l,
have filed a lawsuit against the tobacco industry on behalf of the state of Mississippi...
to get the state reimbursed Medicaid costs...
for treatin' people with smoking-related illness.
If you'd be interested in talkin' to us,
we'd certainly like to talk to you.
When should we do this?
Who the hell are you? What are you doing in my house?
- It's okay, Jeff. It's okay. - Mr. Wigand, you need to speak to...
You've got your own security now.
You know, Lowell, I can't... I can't afford to...
No, they volunteered. A friend owns a large security company.
How're you doing, Mr. Wigand? I'm John Telafarro.
There'll be three of us on the detail.
I'm going to the store. Please explain our new house guests to your children.
Mrs. Wigand's leaving the house.
Uh, I called Richard Scruggs in Mississippi.
- I heard. - I'm gonna be a witness for them in their litigation.
So I'm gonna fly to Pascagoula, give a deposition.
I know. I'm gonna go there tonight.
You all right?
- Did you have a good day? - Yes, I did. I had a great day.
- Uh, coffee, Lowell? - Yeah, all right.
Wanna play that game we were playing before?
You know, I think you got it up to five.
I was ahead of you, and then you just...
- Please don't wash your hands in the sink.
Where should I wash them?
Use the bathroom.
What's the difference?
That's for food.
Leave it on. Just leave it on! Okay?
I don't think I can do this.
I want to stand by my husband.
I really do, Jeffrey, but...
I don't think I can do this anymore.
I am so sorry.
Can we talk about this when I get back?
Yes, Jeffrey.
It's okay.
Jeff!
You've been served.
Now, what this one is is a temporary restraining order,
a gag order, issued by a Kentucky court.
Jeff Wigand, Michael Moore.
Good to meet you, Dr. Wigand.
Mike's our attorney general down here.
I was just explaining to Jeff they got a Kentucky court...
to issue a gag order to stop his deposition today.
- Right. - Now,
they tried to get the Mississippi court to honor it,
but the judge threw it out.
However, for you, there is a more perilous effect of the gag order.
Dr. Wigand, you do understand what can happen, don't you?
I'm not free to testify... Here.
That's right. If you violate the Kentucky order,
when you step foot back in Kentucky...
they can find you in contempt and they can incarcerate you.
And you ought to know that.
- Jail. - Possibly, yes.
That is one of the possible consequences of your testifying here today.
That's right.
How does... How does one go to jail?
Wh-What does my family do?
Go on welfare?
If my wife has to work, who's gonna look after the kids?
Put food on the table? I mean, my children need me.
If l'm not teaching, there's no medical.
No medical, even on co-pay, that's like... Tuition...
Dr. Wigand, listen.
You may not be able to do this thing.
As I understand from d*ck, you're our key witness,
and I hope you don't withdraw.
Um, I guess we'd all understand if you did.
Guys, I gotta go. I'm gonna be late for court.
I'll see y'all later. Dr. Wigand, good luck.
I know what you're facing, Jeff.
And I think I know how you're feeling.
In the navy, I flew A-6's off carriers.
In combat, events have a duration of seconds.
Sometimes minutes.
But what you're going through goes on day in, day out,
whether you're ready for it or not.
Week in, week out.
Month after month after month.
Whether you're up or whether you're down.
You're assaulted psychologically.
You're assaulted financially,
which is its own special kind of v*olence because it's directed at your kids.
What school can you afford?
How will that affect their lives?
You're asking yourself,
"Will that limit what they may become?"
You feel your whole family's future is compromised,
held hostage.
I do know how it is.
You attract a crowd.
Yeah. Great.
I heard about the Kentucky gag order.
I don't know what to do.
Hold on a second.
Would you please ask Mr. Motley if he expects his witness to appear or not?
I can't seem to find the criteria to decide.
It's too big a decision to make without being resolved in my own mind.
Maybe things have changed.
A lot's changed.
You mean since this morning?
No, I mean since whenever.
f*ck it.
Let's go to court.
Dr. Wigand would like to leave now.
Okay, Jeff. I'm gonna sit you down at that table over there.
I want to start as fast as possible.
I don't want to give them a chance to get another restraining order. Okay?
- Let's go. - Good luck, Doc.
Please stand. Raise your right hand.
Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
- l do. - You may be seated.
You understand, Dr. Wigand, you are under oath?
This is a sworn deposition. There's no judge. It's not a trial.
Will you state your name for the record?
Jeffrey S. Wigand. R-E-Y. W-l-G-A-N-D.
Got any idea what's going on in there?
No, I don't have a clue.
- That is correct. - In other words, it acts as a drug,
- Object to the form of the question. - It acts as a drug...
- Object to the form... - It acts as a drug...
- Object! - Is there an echo in here?
Your objection's been recorded.
She typed it into her little machine ower there. It's on there cord.
So now l'll proceed with my deposition of my witness.
- Does it act as a drug? - Dr. Wigand!
I am instructing you...
not to answer that question.
In accordance to the terms of the contractual obligations...
under taken by you...
not to disclose any information...
about your work at the Brown & Williamson Tobacco Company.
And in accordance with the force and effect...
of the temporary restraining order...
that has been entered against you...
by the court in the state of Kentucky.
That means you don't talk.
Mr. Motley, we have rights here.
Oh, you've got rights.
And lefts. Ups and downs and middles.
So what? You don't get to instruct anything around here!
This is not North Carolina, not South Carolina, nor Kentucky.
This is the sovereign state of Mississippi's proceeding.
Wipe that smirk off your face!
Dr. Wigand's deposition will be part of this record!
And I'm gonna take my witness' testimony whether the hell you like it or not!
Answer the question, Doctor.
Yes. It produces a physiological response, which meets the definition of a drug.
Um, nicotine is associated with...
impact, satisfaction.
It has a pharmacological effect that crosses the blood-brain barrier intact.
Thank you, Doctor. Thank you.
One of the reasons I'm here is that I felt...
that their representation clearly...
Run that Sandefur piece on "nicotine's not addictive."
Run that on camera, then cut right to Wigand with "l believe they perjured..."
Then go wide to the C.E.O.s all taking the oath.
Then back on Jeff...
and play the pause after the word "felt" on the B-side.
Hell of a show, Mike. expl*sive material.
- It went great in Mississippi, Mike. - Good.
- I heard Wigand's deposition got sealed. - Yeah.
They argued that he was going to reveal the secret formula of Kools to the world.
Sealeddoesn'thurtScruggs'litigation,
and since we're the only ones with the story, l believe we're sitting on an exclusive.
- I like that. Corporate has some questions.
We've got a meeting at "Black Rock " first thing in the morning.
- When's the air date? - Lowell, Sharon's online three.
- Tell her I'll call her back in ten. - Here we go.
That they had long known that the nicotine in tobacco...
is an addictive drug despite their public statements to the contrary.
Like the testimony before Congress of Dr. Wigand's former boss,
Brown & Williamson's chief executive officer, Thomas Sandefur.
I believe that nicotine is not addictive.
I believe Mr. Sandefur perjured himself...
because I watched those testimonies very carefully.
All of us did. There was this whole line of people,
whole line of C.E.O.'s up there all swearing.
Part of the reason I'm here is that I felt...
that their representation clearly misstated...
what is common language within the company.
We are in the nicotine delivery business.
There is extensive use of this technology, known as ammonia chemistry.
It allows for the nicotine to be more rapidly absorbed in the lung...
and therefore affect the brain and central nervous system.
That's what cigarettes are for. - Delivery device for nicotine.
A delivery device for nicotine. Put it in your mouth,
Iight it up and you're going to get your fix.
You're going to get your fix.
- Shall I send for coffee? Sorry I'm late. - No, we're fine.
- Are you sure? - Yeah.
All right. I thought we'd get together...
because there's a legal concept...
that has been getting some new attention recently.
Tortious interference.
If two people have an agreement, like a confidentiality agreement,
and one of them breaks it because they are induced to do so by a third party,
the third party can be sued for damages for interfering.
Hence, tortious interference.
"lnterfering"? That's what we do.
I think what we're trying to tell you is that it happens all the time.
This is a news organization. People are always telling us things they shouldn't.
We have to verify if it's true and in the public interest. And if it is, we air it.
And after we corroborate it. That's why we've never lost a lawsuit and run a classy show.
- Anything else? - And 60 Minutes' verification is exact and precise.
And I don't think it would hurt to make sure you're right on this one.
Why? You think we have liability?
What's the CBS News position, Eric?
There's a possibility. It's rather remote.
But one we have to check on, Mike.
I've retained outside counsel to do exactly that...
on a segment, I might add, that's already rife with problems.
What does that mean? " Rife with..."
I'm told unusual promises were made to Wigand.
No, only that we would hold his story until it was safe for him.
And I'm told there are questions as to our star witness' veracity.
His "veracity" was good enough for the state of Mississippi.
Our standards have to be higher than anyone else's,
because we are the standard for everybody else.
Well, as a "standard," I'll hang with "is this guy telling the truth?"
Well, with tortious interference, I'm afraid...
the greater the truth, the greater the damage.
- Come again? - They own...
the information he's disclosing.
The truer it is,
the greater the damage to them.
If he lied, he didn't disclose their information, and the damages are smaller.
- Is this Alice in Wonderland? - You said "on this one."
What about this one?
If this holds up... And it very well may not, Mike.
But if it did and we aired this segment,
and CBS was sued by Brown & Williamson,
I think we could be at grave risk.
- How grave? - Well, at the end of the day,
because of your segment,
the Brown & Williamson Tobacco Company...
could own CBS.
Oh. You know,
I am sorry, but I'm due upstairs.
Is CBS Corporate telling CBS News...
" Do not go to air with this story"?
You're getting ahead of yourself. We're all in this together.
We're all CBS. We'll find out soon.
Thank you, gentlemen.
"Tortious interference."
That sounds like a disease caught by a radio.
- Lunch? - Sure.
Don't worry. We call the sh*ts around here.
Hello?
Debbie, it's me. I want you to check some filings,
and give me John Wilson's number at Bear-Stearn.
- What now? - Kluster's coming over.
Hello, Lowell, Mike.
Don.
There has been so much soul searching about this Wigand.
I've decided we should cut an alternate version of the show without his interview.
I've decided we should cut an alternate version of the show without his interview.
So what happened to Ms. Caperelli's checking with outside counsel first?
- All that crap? - That's happening.
Hopefully, we won't have to use the alternate, but we should have it in the can.
- I'm not touching my film. - I'm afraid you are.
- No, I'm not. - We're doing this with or with out you, Lowell.
If you like, I can assign another producer to edit your show.
Since when has the, uh,
paragon of investigative journalism...
allowed lawyers to determine the news content on 60 Minutes?
It's an alternate version.
So what if we have an alternate version?
And I don't think our being cautious is so damned unreasonable.
So now, if you will excuse me, gentlemen,
Mr. Rather's been complaining about his chair again.
Before you go,
I discovered this.
S.E.C. Filing for the sale of CBS Corporation to Westinghouse Corporation.
- What? - Yeah, I heard rumors.
It's not a rumor. It's a sale. If Tisch can unload CBS...
for $81 a share to Westinghouse,
and then is suddenly threatened...
with a multi-billion dollar lawsuit from Brown & Williamson,
that could screw up the sale, could it not?
- What are you implying? - I'm not implying. I'm quoting.
Uh, " More vested interests. Persons who will profit from this merger.
" Ms. Helen Caperelli, general counsel of CBS News, 3.9 million.
" Mr. Eric Kluster, president of CBS News,
1.4 million."
Are you suggesting that she and Eric are influenced by money?
No, no, of course they're not influenced by money. They work for free.
And you are a volunteer executive producer.
CBS does not do that. And you're questioning our journalistic integrity.
No, I'm questioning your hearing.
You hear "reasonable" and "tortious interference."
I hear "potential Brown & Williamson lawsuit...
jeopardizing the sale of CBS to Westinghouse."
I hear "Shut the segment down. Cut Wigand loose.
Obey orders and f*ck off." That's what I hear.
- You're exaggerating. - I am?
You pay me to go get guys like Wigand,
to draw him out, to get him to trust us, to get him to go on television.
I do. I deliver him. He sits. He talks.
He violates his own f*cking confidentiality agreement.
And he's only the key witness in the biggest public health reform issue,
maybe the biggest, most expensive...
corporate malfeasance case in U.S. History.
And Jeffrey Wigand, who's out on a limb,
does he go on television and tell the truth?
Yes. Is it newsworthy?
Yes. Are we gonna air it?
Of course not. Why?
Because he's not telling the truth? No.
Because he is telling the truth. That's why we're not gonna air it.
And the more truth he tells, the worse it gets.
You are a fanatic, an anarchist. You know that?
If we can't have a whole show, then I want half a show rather than no show.
But, oh, no. Not you. You won't be satisfied unless you're putting the company at risk!
What are you? Are you a businessman or are you a newsman?
Because that happens to be what Mike and l...
and some other people around here do for a living.
- Lowell... - Put the corporation at risk? Give me a f*cking break!
These people are putting our whole reason...
- for doing what we do on the line! - Lowell!
What?
I'm with Don on this.
What's wrong?
They're k*lling the Wigand interview.
- What? - They're pretending it's process. That's bullshit. It's foregone.
What are you and Mike gonna do?
I'm alone on this.
- Oh, baby. - Yeah.
It's Jeffrey Wigand.
Jeffrey. How are you?
How's the family? Okay?
- There is... There is no family. - What do you mean, "there is no family"?
Uh, Liane has filed for divorce.
And, so, I've moved out.
I see the girls a couple of days a week.
- Where are you staying now? - Our favorite hotel, honey.
I checked into room 930.
Odd choice, huh?
I don't know how to say this,
Jeff, except to just say it right out.
So, uh, I'll say it. They do not want to air it.
- What? - B& may have threatened litigation.
CBS is on the block.
- But you, I mean... I know how you... - No.
No, what?
I do not think that you know for me what it is to walk in my shoes.
For my kids to have seen it,
for them to know why I've put them through what I did.
The public airing of that, the testament to why I did what I did.
You're telling me it's not gonna see the light of day?
Jeff.
Mrs. Wigand?
It hasn't been Mrs. Wigand for some time.
I'm an investigator, and I was wondering if l could ask you a couple of questions about that.
All right.
Um, seven months after we were married,
we found out that I had multiple sclerosis.
And you had a daughter, Diane...
He's not going to allow Brown & Williamson to be demonized to the American public.
So I told Peter Jennings. And l... Hold on.
You had multiple sclerosis. You had a small child to raise.
Uh, mention that part in the executive summary and in the chapters.
First wife and estrangement of daughter.
So I was telling Pete, I said, "You've been taken in by this guy."
The divorce was something that we both wanted.
He's a shoplifter.
He's a convicted shoplifter.
So, um, what are you gonna do?
What do you think I'm gonna do? Quit in protest?
I'm not gonna do that.
You're taking "no" for an answer?
No, I'm not gonna take "no" for an answer. No.
You're not? What are you doing?
I'm staying right here, doing my job. Fighting to get my show on the air.
You don't like it? Hey, I tell you what?
Fire my ass.
End up in a high-profile lawsuit with Lowell, the First Amendment martyr?
I don't think so. Take a look at this.
This is a summary of a dossier that's being prepared.
He wouldn't lie about his whole life.
Who's gonna believe him about anything he says?
The Wall Street Journal is doing a major story, and, I think, the Post.
You backed the wrong horse.
The version without the interview is gonna air the week after next.
What was that about?
- Get me Wigand. - Sure.
What the f*ck is this? f*ck!
You never told me you were married before.
- That you had a daughter. - How is that any of your business?
That is not something that you people need to know.
Oh, you know what we do or do not need to know?
- Since when have you become a media expert? - What do you wanna do, Lowell?
- Look up my ass too? - Oh, for God's sake.
- You're not even on this anymore. What do you care? - Jeff, wake the f*ck up!
Everybody is on the line here. If they catch you in a lie,
they can paint everything with that brush, you understand?
- Everything you say. - I told the truth.
Everything you say. And I can't defend you, man,
with one hand tied behind my back...
because you keep from me what they can discover.
And they will discover everything. Believe me.
I was young! I was young!
Confused. We didn't handle it the right way.
- She sued you for back payments of child support? - She did not sue me.
We had a dispute over money. I settled it. She dropped the complaint.
- Any other questions? - Yes. Did you lie...
about being on the American judo team in the Olympics?
- What? - Some public relations guy...
got hold of a tape of an interview where you're saying...
you were on the American judo team in the Olympics.
What kind of sh*t is this? L... I was...
I was not on the team. I sparred with the Olympic team.
- Okay? - All right. ABC Telemarketing Company?
- ABC... - ABC Telemarketing Company.
The can opener! A 39.95 can opener!
I cancelled payment. It was junk!
You ever bounce a check, Lowell? You ever look at another woman's tits?
You ever cheat a little on your taxes?
Whose life, if you look at it under a microscope, doesn't have any flaws?
Well, that's the whole point, Jeffrey. That's the whole point.
Anyone's, everyone's. They are gonna look under every rock,
dig up every flaw, every mistake you've ever made.
They are going to distort and exaggerate everything you've ever done, man.
- Don't you understand? - What does this have to do with my testimony?
- That's not the point... - What does it have to do with my testimony?
- I told the truth! It's true and provable! - It's not about...
That's not the f*cking point, whether you told the truth or not!
Hello?
I told the truth.
I told the truth.
I gotta teach class. I gotta go.
- I gotta teach class. - And I gotta refute every f*cking accusation made...
in this report before the WalI Street Journal runs.
I am trying to protect you, man.
I hope you improve your batting average.
They're cutting the interestrate, and l have that great feature...
- Hello? - It's Lowell.
Are you guys planning to do a piece on a former top executive in Big Tobacco?
- You caught me in a news meeting. - Are you, are you not, Charlie?
You bet we are, and I can't talk to you now.
- We gotta hook up. - Sure. Where?
- P.J.'s. - I'll be there.
Yeah, I got it. Five hundred pages of it.
They looked in every corner of this guy's life, from the spousal abuse charge,
to shoplifting, to a traffic ticket he got once for running a red light.
It's Terry Lenzner's outfit, l. G.I. Jack, listen to me.
Their strategy: discredit this guy, ruin his reputation in the WalI Street Journal...
and then nobody will ever listen to what he's got to say about tobacco.
He's dead unless I can get this thing knocked down.
Make it even a little more attractive.
I don't know if you're ever gonna get paid.
- Is there any truth to any of it? - That's a good question.
"ls there any truth to any of it?" I doubt it.
- What's the deadline? - Soon.
- Fax me the summary. - That's great, Jack.
- Hey. How are you? Hey, listen. - Hey.
I hear you guys are sitting on something sensational over there.
- Really? Hi, June. - Oh, hi, baby.
- Catch you later. - Okay. Take care.
- When's your deadline? - Monday.
- Push it. - What? Forget it.
It's a smear campaign, Charlie.
- It's drawn from a selectively circulated... - Oh, yeah.
Real selective. About as hard to get a hold of as the Manhattan phone book.
Well, it's authoritive... And overwhelmingly documented.
And it's bullshit. And if I'm right, are you gonna put...
the Journal's reputation behind a story that's gonna blow up in your face?
I'll take a look at what you got but I'm not moving any deadlines because you say so.
Are you all right?
Yeah.
Officer Muravchick?
Thank you.
Officer Muravchick, how are you?
- I'm Sandra Sutherland. - How do you do?
Fine, thank you. I'm doing a background check.
Mind if l sit down?
Your Honor, could I have a word with you?
You presided in a dispute over support payments.
Jeffrey Wigand? Yeah, I cited him.
CBS is under criticism because the CBS News program, 60 Minutes,
will not be presenting an interview...
What the hell are you doing?
What does it look like I'm doing? I'm editing.
No, no, no that. I'm talking about the Associated Press.
They got the story that we pulled this interview, and they talked to Mike and l.
Did you tell them that we were lying?
No! I should have.
I told them I disagreed with you, Mike and Kluster...
that this segment is as good as the original.
I'm not lying for you. I'm not gonna shut up for you.
- Not on any of it. - Hey, I'm not gonna fire you.
Okay? Take a vacation. Now!
Lowell? Look, I've decided to preface Sunday's show.
I did three minutes on the Ewening News. You'll want to see it.
- Where are you going? - I've been banished...
in lieu of being fired.
I took off on Tisch. I took off on Corporate.
They'll know they're not, uh, going to see everything on Sunday night.
I don't know. How does that get Wigand on the air?
Do me a favor, will you? Spare me.
For God's sake, get in the real world. What do you think?
I'm going to resign in protest to force it on the air?
The answer's no. I don't plan to spend the end of my days...
wandering in the wilderness of National Public Radio.
That decision I've already made.
This Sunday, Wallace will broadcast a report...
on the tobacco industry, including the tough tactics tobacco companies employ...
to keep a lid on information that might be damaging.
Is there information that people should have...
that they're not going to have because you're not going to broadcast this interview?
- Yes. - Today, CBS News president Eric Kluster...
defended the network's decision not to broadcast...
key portions of the controversial interview.
Mr. Kluster said, quote, "The atmosphere is tougher than ever. "
- Where's the rest? - Dan.
Where the hell's the rest?
- Nebraska football fans voiced their criticism... - You cut it!
Coming up in Bernard Goldberg's America.
- You cut the guts out of what I said! - It was a time consideration...
Time? Bullshit! You corporate lackey.
Who told you your incompetent little fingers have the requisite skills to edit me?
I'm trying to Band-Aid a situation here, and you're too dim...
Mike. Mike. Mike.
" Mike"? Mike!
Try " Mr. Wallace."
We work in the same corporation. Doesn't mean we work in the same profession.
Now, now what are you going to do now? You going to finesse me?
Lawyer me some more? I've been in this profession 50 f*cking years!
You and the people you work for are destroying the most respected,
the highest rated, the most profitable show on this network.
Here. These are their leads, their sources.
- I want you to have your reporters... - Sue in Hwang and Milo Geyelin.
Have them make their own calls.
They'll find that these sources have a different story than the one that's in the dossier.
Push the deadline, Charlie.
I'll push it for a week. I want Milo and Suein to go through it.
What do you want to buy him for a gift?
Mmm, he's into kind of little cars that, um...
- That remote control thing? - Yeah.
All right. We'll go do that tomorrow.
The 63-36 vote was three shy of the two-thirds needed to pass...
- Mom. There's Dad. - Yes?
- On the TV. - ...dating back to 1986.
The most recent trouble for Wigand occurred here...
And in local news, WLKO, Louisville,
has gained access to a 500-page dossier...
on former Brown & Williamson research head, Jeffrey Wigand,
detailing charges of shoplifting and failing to pay child support.
Wigand is currently teaching chemistry and Japanese...
at the DuPont ManuaI High School.
Maria.
Thousands of documents from inside the tobacco industry...
have surfaced over the past year.
Documents that appear to confirm...
what a former U.S. Surgeon general...
and the current head of the Food and Drug Administration have been saying.
We learned of a tobacco insider who could tell us...
whether or not the tobacco industry has been leveling with the public.
That insider was formerly...
a highly-placed executive with a tobacco company.
But we cannot broadcast what critical information about tobacco,
addiction and public health he might be able to offer.
Why? Because he had to sign a confidentiality agreement...
with the tobacco company he worked for.
The management of CBS has told us...
that knowing he had that agreement...
if we were to broadcast an interview with him,
CBS could be faced with a multi-billion dollar lawsuit.
The fact is, we are not allowed ewen to mention his name...
or the name of the company he worked for.
And, of course, we cannot show you his face.
And your confidentiality agreement with...
- Is still in force? - Yes, it is.
So what are they gonna do? Sue you for making this appearance?
I would bet on it.
The former executive has reason to bet on being sued,
for major cigarette manufacturers...
Yeah.
You disappeared on me.
- How long you staying? - I disappeared on you?
All right. What did you think?
I think it was a disgrace.
- Still no answer. - Get me the manager's office.
David. David, you've got a call on line four.
I think you better take it.
This is David McDougal. How can I help you?
Mr. McDougal, my name is Lowell Bergman. I'm a producer for 60 Minutes.
I'm concerned for a friend of mine who's staying at your hotel right now.
Mr. Wigand?
Mr. Wigand?
I-l think I need to call the police. He won't respond.
No, no, don't call the police. Just tell him I'm on the phone with you.
My name is Lowell Bergman. Just tell him that.
Mr. Wigand, Mr. Bergman is on the telephone.
Did he hear you?
You're breaking up. I can't hear you.
What about now?
- What? - Hello? Can you hear me now?
- What's happening? - He doesn't seem to be listening.
All right. Now listen to me. I want you... I want you to tell him...
in these words: Get on the f*cking phone.
I-l can't say that.
No, you can. Tell him to get on the f*cking phone!
He told me to tell you to get on the... f*cking phone!
You manipulated me into this.
- That's bullshit, Jeff. - You greased the rails.
I greased the rails for a guy who wanted to say "yes." I helped him to say "yes."
That's all. You're not a robot, Jeff.
- All right? You got a mind of your own, don't you? - " Up to you, Jeffrey.
"That's the power you have, Jeffrey.
Vital inside information the American public need to know."
Lowell Bergman... the hotshot who never met a source he couldn't turn around.
I fought for you, and I still fight for you!
You fought for me? You manipulated me...
into where I am now... staring at the Brown & Williamson building!
It's all dark except the tenth floor. That's the legal department.
That's where they f*ck with my life.
Jeffrey, where you going with this?
So, where you going?
You are... important...
to a lot of people, Jeffrey.
You think about that.
You think about them.
I'm running out of heroes, man.
Guys like you are in short supply.
Yeah, guys like you too.
Where are you, anyway?
I'm on a leave of absence. Forced vacation.
- You try and have a good time. - Yeah.
Yeah, I will.
I'm Lowell Bergman. I'm from 60 Minutes. You know, you take the 60 Minutes...
out of that sentence, nobody returns your phone calls.
Maybe Wigand's right. Maybe I'm hooked.
What am I hooked on?
The rush of 60 Minutes?
What the hell for? "lnfotainment"!
It's so f*cking useless, all of it.
So it's a big country with a free press. You can go and work somewhere else.
" Free press"? The press is free.
For anyone who owns one. Larry Tisch has a free press.
- Get some perspective, Lowell. - I got perspective.
No, you do not.
From my perspective,
what's been going on and what I've been doing is ridiculous.
- It's half-measures. - You're not listening.
Really know what you're going to do before you do it.
I've got Richard Scruggs on the phone.
Patch him through.
Well, Lowell, you are not gonna believe this.
The governor of Mississippi is suing his own attorney general...
to abandon litigation against Big Tobacco.
- Oh, good. - But now that the version without Jeff ran,
what's the chance of getting his interview on the air?
- Hello? - Yeah, I'm here.
What chance is there of getting Jeffs interview on the air?
Less than great.
I'd be lying to you if l did not tell you...
how important it was in the court of public opinion.
I'd be lying to you if l didn't tell you...
I'm about out of moves, d*ck.
All right. See ya.
Hi.
So, what are you folks doing... here in Lincoln?
- Geology survey. - Geology?
Yeah? Really?
How about you?
I work for CBS News.
Oh, yeah?
Just ran into two of your geologists.
Geologists whose hands aren't all chewed up.
Lowell, do not... Screw this up.
We are a week away from an arrest.
- So I'll hold it. And? - We'll give you a heads-up before we launch.
- How long? - Three hours.
You got a deal.
...like the testimony before Congress of Dr. Wigand's former boss,
Brown & Williamson's chief executive officer, Thomas Sandefur.
I believe that nicotine is not addictive.
I believe Mr. Sandefur perjured himself...
- because I watched those testimonies very carefully. - All of us did.
There was this whole line of people,
whole line of C.E.O.'s up there all swearing.
Part of the reason I'm here is that I felt...
that their representation...
...can be more rapidly absorbed in the lung...
and therefore affect the brain and central nervous system.
- Hello? - Jim, it's Lowell.
- Hey, where are you? - Remember that night at P.J.'s?
You asked me if we were sitting on something expl*sive. Well, we're not sitting on it.
CBS Corporate leaned on CBS News, which yanked an interview we did...
with a top-ranking tobacco scientist, corporate officer.
They're trying to close down the story.
You mean, 60 Minutes is letting CBS Corporate...
decide what is or is not news?
What's Wallace think about this? Or Hewitt, or...
How prominent? What kind of placement?
Oh, come on, Lowell. This is The New York Times. I don't know.
Well, until you do, all I can tell you is what you already know.
They will not air an interview.
Call me back in ten.
- Hello? - Debbie, it's me.
Hi. What time is it?
- Oh, it's late. - That I know. When are you coming back?
I can't get out of here till mid-morning. I'll be in tomorrow night.
Listen, could you call a number for me? It's in Mississippi.
Okay. Hold on a second.
What is it?
- Hello? - It's Lowell.
All right, Lowell. Page one. Editorial's interested. Let's talk.
Here's how it works. You ask me questions. I tell you if you're wrong.
- Lowell, you sure you want to do this? - Why?
Hey, it doesn't work, you've b*rned your bridges, man.
You ready?
Okay. About this whistle-blower,
did Mike and Don go along with the corporate decision?
- Lowell? - Did I tell you you were wrong?
No. Um, I'm assuming the cave-in begins...
with the thr*at of litigation from Big Tobacco.
Are we talking, uh...
Are we talking Brown & Williamson here?
Did I get you up?
No, I usually sit around my hotel room dressed like this at 5:30 in the morning,
sleepy look on my face.
How many shows have we done? Huh?
- Come on. How many? - Oh, lots.
That's right.
But in all that time, Mike,
did you ever get off a plane, walk into a room...
and find that a source for a story changed his mind?
Lost his heart? Walked out on us?
Not one f*cking time. You wanna know why?
I see a rhetorical question on the horizon.
I'm gonna tell you why.
Because when I tell someone I'm gonna do something, I deliver.
Oh, how fortunate I am to have Lowell Bergman's moral tutelage...
- to point me down the shining path, to show me the way. - Oh, please, Mike.
- Give me a break. - You give me a break.
I never left a source hung out to dry ewer.
Abandoned. Not till right f*cking now.
When I came on this job, I came with my word intact.
I'm gonna leave with my word intact. f*ck the rules of the game!
Hell, you're supposed to know me, Mike.
What the hell did you expect?
You expect me to lie down?
Back off? Or get over it?
In the real world, when you get to where I am, there are other considerations.
Like what? Corporate responsibility?
- What, are we talking celebrity here? - I'm not...
I'm not talking about celebrity, vanity, CBS. I'm...
I'm... I'm talking about...
when you're nearer the end of your life than the beginning.
And what do you think you think about then? The future?
"ln the future, I'm gonna do this, become that"?
What future? No.
What you think is...
" How will I be regarded in the end...
after I'm gone?"
Oh, along the way, I suppose I made some minor impact.
I did lrangate, the Ayatollah, Malcolm X,
Martin Luther King, S*ddam, Sadat, etc, etc.
I showed them thieves in suits. I spent a lifetime building...
all that.
But history only remembers most what you did last.
And should that be fronting a segment...
that allowed a tobacco giant to crash this network...
Does it give someone...
at my time of life pause?
Yeah.
Mike,
in my...
You and I have been doing this...
together for 1 4 years.
This is today's New York Times.
In it is the whole sordid story...
of what went on inside our shop.
And in the editorial, it accuses us...
of betraying the legacy of Edward R. Murrow.
They conclude most of it seems pretty unsubstantiated.
You're full of sh*t, John.
Yeah.
Front page. There's a picture of Wigand.
Article's entitled, "Getting Personal. "
Byline to Sue in Hwang and Milo Geyelin.
Wait. Hold on a second, Lowell.
Yeah.
Yeah, I'll see if l can find him.
Yeah, hold on. Don's looking for you.
- Good. - The subheading is " Brown & Williamson...
has a 500-page dossier attacking chief critic."
It quotes Richard Scruggs calling it the worst kind...
of an organized smear campaign against a whistle-blower.
"A close look at the file and independent research by this newspaper...
"into its key claim indicates that many of the serious allegations...
against Mr. Wigand are backed by scant or contradictory evidence."
This news division has been wilified...
in The New York Times, in print, on television...
for caving to corporate interests!
The New York Times ran a blow-by-blow of what we talked about behind closed doors.
- You f*cked us! - No! You f*cked you!
Don't invert stuff.
Big Tobacco tried to smear Wigand. You bought it.
The WalI Street Journal... Here... not exactly...
a bastion of anti-capitalist sentiment,
refutes Big Tobacco's smear campaign...
as the lowest form of character assassination.
And now, even now, when every word...
of what Wigand has said on our show is printed,
the entire deposition of his testimony in a court of law...
in the state of Mississippi, the cat...
totally out of the bag,
you're still standing here debating.
Don, what the hell else do you need?
Mike, you tell him.
You f*cked up, Don.
It's old news. Stick with me, like always. We'll be okay.
These things have a half-life of 1 5 minutes.
No, that's fame. Fame has a 1 5-minute half-life.
Infamy lasts a little longer.
We caved. It's foolish. It's simply dead wrong.
Now this is what we're going to do. We're going over to Black Rock...
Okay? So let's get back to work. Now what we saw there...
was two potassium chlorate...
would yield two potassium chloride, also a solid...
They cancelled the 6:00. I don't know why. I...
I'm on the 8:1 0. I should be home... 9:30.
I'll see you then. I love you. Bye.
- Oh. Thanks, Dad. - Thanks.
CBS management wouldn't let us broadcast...
our original story and our interview with Jeffrey Wigand...
because they were worried about the possibility...
of a multi-billion dollar lawsuit against us...
for tortious interference.
But now things have changed.
What Dr. Wigand told us was that his former...
This industry, in my opinion, is an industry...
that has perpetrated the biggest fraud on the American public in history.
They've k*lled millions and millions of...
You wish you hadn't blown the whistle?
Yeah, there are times I wish I hadn't done it.
There are times I feel com... Compelled to do it.
If you ask me...
would I do it again, do I think it's worth it?
Yeah, I think it's worth it.
I promised you a three-hour heads up. Here it is.
Have a camera crew standing by in Helena, Montana on Tuesday,
and I'll give you a three-hour head start.
All right? By the way, that was a hell of a good show tonight.
- Thank you, Bill. - Yeah.
You won.
Yeah.
What did I win?
Reporting from CBS News world head quarters in New York, good afternoon.
There has been a major breakin the case of the so-called Unabomber.
CBS News has learned that are mote homesite...
outside of Lincoln, Montana...
has been under F.B.I. Surveillance for several weeks.
Great, Lowell.
Thanks for this.
You know, we b*at everybody. ABC, NBC, CNN.
Mike.
That Canada story...
still interest you?
Everything interests me.
Uh, I quit, Mike.
Bullshit.
Come on.
It all worked out.
You came out okay in the end.
I did?
What do I tell a source on the next tough story?
"Hang in with us. You'll be fine. Maybe."
No.
What got broken here...
doesn't go back together again.
Insider, The (1999)
Moderator: Maskath3