01x05 - Family Values

[bunniefuu]

It won't be the death chamber,

and it might not
even be prison.

Robert Durst could
soon be back on the street.

- I think it's horrible.
- I, I can't believe he got off.

My take, this is scary,

that this guy is
going to be free,

just based on what he did with the body,
et cetera.

And he's a possible suspect
in two other murders?

It was utter disbelief.
I mean, utter disbelief.

The New York Times,
generally not known for their

ironic humorous take on things,

"New York City Real Estate Heir
Is Acquitted of m*rder in Texas.

Durst, Who Cut Up a Body..."

Ha ha ha!
"Argued Self-Defense."

That's as close as
The New York Times will ever come

to literally just making
a joke on the front page.

That's like The New York Times
just going,

"Can you [beep] believe this?"

Nothing happens the way
it's supposed to happen

when it comes to Bobby Durst,

and I've become accustomed to

expecting things
not to make sense.

You chopped up your neighbor.
Tell us about that.

Well, he raged at me and,
as I was defending myself,

I fell, and accidentally,
uh, chopped him up.

And of course,
The New York Post

strikes a more cautionary pose.

"Run For Your Lives."

m*rder 1, you know,
we're gonna go,

"m*rder 1,
this is a slam dunk."

That's the phrase that was used

by the Galveston Police
to me in person.

"Slam dunk, Jim."

There are some people that,
no matter how much

money they threw at the case,

were convicted
and shouldn't have been.

And there are people that
escape responsibility

because they're able to mount
a really effective defense.

Do I think it's unfair?
Yeah, I do think it's unfair.

But, we are in
a capitalistic system,

and the people that make the
money can drive the Cadillacs,

and people that don't
make as much money

have to get...
Buy a used car.

Did you have anything
to do with Susan Berman's death?

Did you m*rder your wife?

Whether it's the LAPD
bringing him to trial,

whether it's Westchester County
District Attorney's Office

bringing him to trial,

whether it's the FBI
bringing him to trial,

whether it's the security guard
at Disney World

bringing him to trial,
I really don't care.

I hope they get a conviction.

I hope if they,
if whoever prosecutes him,

I hope they get a conviction.

Because I really believe
our society is much safer

with him behind bars
without him roaming around.


There
are times when I'm in a situation

where I,
I will have people staring at me.

I can tell they're
talking about me.

And they're telling somebody else that,
you know, I'm me.

There's a lot of
people out there

who think I k*lled my wife,
that I k*lled Susan Berman,

that I intentionally m*rder*d
Morris Black.

"And it's quite possible that

he's k*lled a whole slew
of other people."

That is what I would
think if I was

as familiar with the media
as I am about me.

Hello.

Oh, Nicky!
How are you?

Can I have
a name for the drink?

Bob.

And you got a tall Americano,
right?

- Yes, we do.
- And what do we owe you?

$5.44.

Thank you.

The whole Bob Durst headline

had absolutely no affect on
the Durst Organization's ability

to work and thrive in New York.

Douglas Durst
is the chairman of

the Durst Organization,
one of the most powerful companies

in Manhattan real estate
for almost a century.

This past summer,
the Port Authority

awarded the Durst Organization
the right to take over leasing,

management,
and operation of the Freedom Tower.

Bob's case,
it's like something that's over there

and totally separate from
the Durst Organization,

because there's a whole
generation of people that don't,

have never had contact with,
with Bob.

Bob was more, like,
on the periphery from my memory.

He was, you know,
like my mom's older brother.

Except for those first few
months in early '82,

when my aunt was missing
and it was in the papers.

And I guess it was
on TV or whatever.

Um, it was just
not talked about at all.

And, you know,
I was 11 when that happened.

Later on in my twenties it was like,
"Oh, and by the way,

"your uncle, Robert Durst,
might have

something to do with
her disappearance."

So that's like, "OK."

I mean, I, I don't know how one
is supposed to react to that.

I feel the way I reacted to,
which made sense at the time,

was, you know,
my parents were like,

"Look,
there's nothing we can do,

and we just don't talk about it,
whatever."

And I don't blame them for doing
that or not doing anything.

But I'm not happy about the fact
that it's 30 years later,

and there's a Berlin Wall
of silence.

Unfortunately,
there is no haven from

what's going on with my brother,

as it's in the papers
quite frequently.

But it's not something
that we discuss,

and not something that we have
any involvement in.

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I knew as soon as the
verdict came down in Galveston

that I couldn't get the closure

that I wanted for
Kathleen's family.

_

That then put it back
on the front burner

in terms of, "OK, guys.

"Let's regroup,
find out what we've got.

"Find out if we can
get anything else,

and where we go from here."

We really wanted to try to
figure out if there was anyone

from in the family who'd
break and give us something.

One of the things that always
bothered me about the case,

I mean, here is Seymour Durst,
one of the 5 most powerful

real estate people in the city,

and his daughter-in-law
goes missing.

And there's not one hint of it
in the police files,

that this is a big,
gigantic case.

There's no interviews with
anybody from Bob's family

in the original case folder,
which is kind of strange.

You know,
if Seymour Durst is worth

a couple hundred million dollars,
you want to find out

what he thinks about his
daughter-in-law missing.

Was your dad engaged in any way

when Kathie disappeared?

Did he do anything?

Oh, he, he, um,

really,
really wanted to leave it to me.

Do you think that,
that Seymour ever thought

that you might have
had something to do

with her disappearance?

I haven't the faintest idea.

I highly, highly,
highly doubt it,

but Seymour's thoughts
were inscrutable.


I received a call.

And a male voice on the other end,
"Hi, Mike."

And I said, "Who's this?"
"This is Nick."

And I said, "Nick who?"

And he says, "Nick Scoppetta."

"Bob Durst, you know,
really appreciates

"the work that you're doing
and is very satisfied.

"But, you know,
Bob is a very busy guy,

"and that I would appreciate
that all,

all other communication going
forward you do through me."

And that's the classic
lawyering up.

Now, if you've got, you know,
nothing to hide,

and you've dropped your
wife off at the train station,

why would you go out and hire
a criminal defense attorney?

Nick Scoppetta was your lawyer

to defend you from the
potential of accusations.

He was my lawyer, but he was

supposed to find Kathie Durst.

I mean,
if he could find Kathie Durst,

there'd be no accusations.

Was he supposed to find Kathie?

Yes.
It was the whole intent of it.

Do you think that Nick did work

to try to find Kathie?

Yes!
He brought in a private investigator

who used to be a cop in,
or used to be

a big cop in that precinct.

What was the name?
Ed Wright.

Hello.

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Ed Wright was able to get
lots of stuff from the police.

He knew the police.
The police liked him.

He was able to get information

that was theoretically
unavailable.

Who thought what?
Who said what?

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It's titled "Discrepancies
in the Recollection

of Various Principals."

It's Ed Wright's view of
where there are inconsistencies

in his own client's accounting of what,
what went on

the night his wife disappeared.

- Good evening.
- She talked on the telephone

with her husband,
then she vanished.

And no one has seen
Kathleen Durst since.

This particular report
indicates how Bob Durst

had changed his story
to his own investigator

about where he called Kathie
on the night of January 31.

In the first
interview with Wright,

Mr. Durst stated that he called
from his own house.

On the second interview,
he told Mr. Wright

that he'd made
the call to his wife

from a payphone
in a restaurant.

He later on stated that he had
called Kathie from a payphone

between the house
and the train station.

He was kind of
all over the board.

Once Wright was
telling these people

that there's deception on the
part of their son and brother,

I would think that behind the
scenes there was a great deal of

alarm concerning this matter.

Police are satisfied
that Mrs. Durst

made it to the couple's
apartment on Riverside Drive.

During our investigation,
the doorman told us he saw her

arrive home that Sunday evening
and go to her apartment.

But in an interview
conducted by Mr. Wright,

the doorman told him that
actually he didn't see her.

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He would have been
the guy to bring her up.

And if he didn't see her,
she wasn't there.

The Durst Family...
His father or brothers...

Never offered to help us,
or never said,

"Look, we have a private
investigator involved in it.

Anything he finds
he'll share with you."

They just further backed away.

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Me? I must have had


including the ones
in our office

where Douglas was
usually there,

and the ones in,
in Nick's office.

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Like that.

I think at this point
if they admit that they knew

anything back in 1982,
makes them complicit.

And they don't want
that shame to come on them.

"Oh, I didn't say anything then
because I was afraid of..."

Whatever, whatever the deal is,

they just can't
come forward now.

And I don't,
I don't expect them to.

It's upsetting to think that

because you're living
up there on Mt. Olympus,

it's not necessary
to talk to regular people

about extraordinary problems.

You know, a disappearance of a woman,
it's a tragedy.

It's a trauma.

It's like a wound, you know.

Whatever I'm going through as
a member of the Durst family,

I can't imagine what it's like

to be a member of
the McCormack family,

my Aunt Kathie's family.

She disappeared
two weeks after I was born.

So, I wasn't really
aware of the first,

first years of this tragedy,
when it was most raw.

You know, I only came kind of
to an understanding of it

when I was an early teenager...


When people started remarking
on our physical resemblance.

I mean, I haven't seen this.
Oh, my God.

This could be me.

Yeah, that's incredible.

It's chilling for me.

You know that fact that,
you know, my mom,

who was a contemporary
of Seymour Durst,

never even got a
courtesy call to say,

"How are you doing?
How can we help?"

has always stuck in my craw.

And I never got a call from
Wendy or Tommy or, or Doug.

I didn't expect
a call from Bob.

It's been like, you know,
just an ignored family.

I wish I could say that it,
it brought everybody closer,

but I don't think
that would be the truth.

You know, I think...
It was this thing

because there was no closure.

It's not, it's not like
losing someone and knowing why,

where you can all rally around
a common understanding

or a common emotion
or range of emotions.

This was so,
everything was so shrouded in mystery.

There was so much anger,
and no opportunity to truly grieve.

And I think that maybe
missing that grieving process

was hard on the family.

I mean, I think,
I think that's why it's still,

we're still talking about it.

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as of January 31 of this year.

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Yeah,
I went to mass that morning.

I remembered Kathie.

And actually,
I spoke in front of

the congregation
that was there.

And it had prayers
said for Kathie,

and we also had
prayers said for Bob.

For Kathie, for her peace.

And for Bob,
for his conscience.

Maybe something will
come of this, huh?

Wouldn't it be nice?
You never know.

You read those,
"Years later, they found out this

and they found out that."

And there might be
somebody out there

that knows something
and is keeping quiet. So...

I'd started to write this essay

about my Aunt Kathie's
disappearance as a way to heal.

I forget if I had
the idea initially

or somebody in my family
may have suggested

I could talk to Douglas
to get his take.

The way it ended up,
it was a deal.

That's what it was.

I get to call him on the phone
for 15 minutes.

"No, he wants to email."

"No, it's 10 questions."

"No, it's 5."
"No, it's 3."

And I think that's
what it wound up at.

There was 3 questions.

_

I think Question Number One was

"Do, uh... What memories do
you have of Aunt Kathie?"

And his answer was
"My memories of Kathie are my memories."

Question Number Two
I believe was

"Have you seen the movie
All Good Things,

"or are you aware
that those filmmakers

are making a documentary?"

And his answer was "No."

And then the third question was

"Do you think that
the Westchester D.A.

will reopen the case
on my Aunt Kathie?"

And his answer was
"I don't have any knowledge

of how the Westchester
D.A. operates"

or something like that,
and that was it.

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We're going to see
Bob Durst's brother Douglas.

See what we can learn
face-to-face

by getting to know
the man a bit.

Have you ever met him before?

I've never met him before.

I've seen him around
a few social occasions.

But we're going to go to
a dinner in his honor.

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Can I interrupt you?

- First I want to congratulate you.
- Thank you.

Then I want to tell you
I'm Andrew Jarecki.

Oh, you are.

I mean you no harm.
I'm, I'm interested in,

you know, at some point,
us getting a chance to talk.

Well, I've tried.
It's not my fault.

You know, I'd be happy to come

sit down and talk at some point

if you're, you know,
so motivated.

Off the record, or, you know,

just sort of say
what we're working on.

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That's my idea.

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Well, anyway, congratulations.

I wanted
to just say "hi."

You know,
it's as if Doug has become

the eldest son of
the Durst family.

It must be very strange
for Bob to not exist.

You know?
For Bob to be this guy who...

I mean, it gives you a little
of an idea of why, you know,

why he wants to be in our film.

I worked here my whole time.

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The whole time...
'74 to '92-ish.

Wow.

We had the 32nd floor.

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Well, you know,
a long time ago now.

But that's where
I spent those 18 years.

Yeah, you know,
you can't set up

any tripods on the property
without, uh...

- OK, we have no tripods.
- OK, OK.

Do you, can you tell me

where you work,
do you work here?

Yeah, I work for,
I'm security for the building. I patrol...

- Who owns the building?
- Huh?

Who owns the building?

The building is Royal Realty.

A company called Royal Realty.

They own the building.

But that, the "D" on your thing,
is that...?

Yes, yes. Why, why,
who are you with?

We're actually making
a film about Robert Durst.

Oh, um, I'm, I'm not authorized

to give you any
information at this time.

You know? OK.

Thank you very much, sir.

OK, Doug.
All right.

But it's not a secret
that that's a "D" for Durst...

OK, I understand that.

But I'm not authorized
to give any information.

I don't want to put you
in an uncomfortable position.

All right.
Thank you.

Well, I'm here with
Andrew and 4 other people

being filmed in Times Square.

And as soon as we got here,

immediately Douglas'
security people were there.

Make sure you get
all the profile.

What are you
following us around for?

When they saw all the cameras,

they all were on the telephone
calling whomever.

There must have been 6 of them.

And they, uh, watched us,
and Andrew filmed them.

And that's how I spent
the last hour and a half.

How do you feel about
your brother Douglas Durst?

I don't get along with him.

Why not?

I'd have to go back

to when we were 5.

Let's go back to
when you were 5.

Why don't you
get along with him?

We, we,

I, I think I remember
he stole my toys.

We're talking
about a sibling rivalry

that's quite advanced in terms
of who's going to run

a billion-dollar business.

And the eldest
doesn't win that,

and it goes to, you know,
the, the second eldest.

And, um...

You could argue that
Bob's failure to be chosen

to take on the family business

was a betrayal of
biblical proportions.

Did I tell you that I went

to his Katonah house?

Uh,
I think I read that you did,

but I didn't,
I don't remember if you told me.

I was driving
around these places I grew up,

my family places, and...

Oh, it was
in the newspaper then.

- Yeah, yeah.
- But, but, but

I really went... My plan...

Don't say it. OK?

I'm definitely
not going to say it.

OK. But you told me
what your plans were,

and I told you that I knew,
I had a feeling, I suspected.

Remember?
If I suspected, he knew it, too.

While Bob was on the run,

he pulled into the driveway of
his brother's home in Katonah.

He had two g*ns in his car.

I think that convinced Douglas
more than ever

that his brother
was out to k*ll him.

The press reported that
you had hired a bodyguard

to protect yourself
against Robert Durst.

Is that true?

That is true, yes.

Uh... Ridiculous.

I think it's
absolutely ridiculous.

Right here.
I want you to photograph me

in front of Douglas's house.

Now that I know that
it's Douglas's house.

Uh.

This is it.

How strange is this?

I mean, I think he's not
going to be satisfied unless

somebody comes
and tells him to move.

I'm finished, fellas.

When did you first
meet Robert Durst?

Heh.
I think I met him in 1988.

At the time, was he married?

Heh. That's a very tricky question,
as you know.

But let's say he was.

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In the fall of 2000,
had you heard reports that

the Westchester District
Attorney was investigating

the disappearance of
Mr. Durst's first wife?

Yes.

We know that Bobby
found out that Kathie's case

was going to be reopened
October 31 of 2000.

From there,
he went into a defensive mode.

The next day, he made a purchase for a,
a jewelry purchase,

which I believe is
the engagement ring for Debrah.

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So, now, you know,

he has the husband-wife
privilege.

And that's exactly
when he signed over

all the power of attorney.

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A lot of people believe

that Debbie knows Bob's secrets,

whatever they may be.

Did you discuss the
reopening of the investigation

with Mr. Durst,
before you were married?

Yes.

What did he
tell you about that?

Um,
I'm going to object to anything that goes

to the spousal privilege
in terms of communications.

You want to ask her
about facts that she knows,

the witness can answer that.
But...

My question specifically framed

going to before
they were married.

OK.

I guess that what he told me
was that he was scared.

Scared of what?

Of Jeanine Pirro opening up
the investigation.

Concerned.

I spoke with
his wife Debrah Charatan.

She called her lawyer
almost immediately.

Uh, she was somewhat,
um, polite.

But I think she wanted
to learn more from us

than she was
willing to tell us.

Lovely woman.
Elegant. Smart.

Couldn't remember where Robert
Durst was around Christmastime,

even though
they were newlyweds.

Did you learn
around Christmas of 2000

that Susan Berman
had been k*lled?

- Yes.
- How did you learn that?

I was driving in a taxicab,

on my way home to the city,
to the apartment,

and I heard it on the radio.

At that time,
was Mr. Durst

in residence at your house?

I don't think so.

I've never been able
to put Bobby in Los Angeles

at the time of the m*rder.

I could put him in California.

We spoke to people
out in California,

and at least two people
told us that Susan had said

Bob was going to come and visit
some time around the holidays,

and she was,
she was looking forward to it.

In fact, we found out that Bob
went out to Northern California

sometime close
to Susan's m*rder.

Now,
what was in Trinidad, California?

Oh, it was very rural,
very pretty.

I had lived there off and on.

The police, I think,
made a big deal out of the idea

that you had gone to
California around the time

that Susan Berman was m*rder*d.

I, I got there a long time
before December 23.

A long time before Christmas.

I picked Bob up
on December 19 in 2000

And took him down to Harper Ford,
pick up his car keys,

and took him back
to the airport,

where his car was, apparently.

The parking facility
at the Arcata Airport,

they keep logs, a daily log

of the vehicles that
are kept in the lot.

We did determine that Bobby had

got his vehicle out of
the long-term parking lot

on the 19th of December.

Bob had at least
one calling card

that we found in his records.

These two calls were
made the next day, on the 20th,

from a payphone in
the town of Garberville,

which is about 80,


It makes sense that
he's moving south.

He's heading down.

This is a man who
would check his voice messages

several times a day.

And then we found that,

during the 3, 4 days prior to
and after Susan's m*rder,

there's no activity
at all on his phone.

The phone company says, like,

the phone is turned off
during that time.

He's kind of off the map
for 3 days,

until he shows up at
the counter in San Francisco

to purchase a ticket.

He was on Flight 18
that left San Francisco

at 10:00 in the evening.

Her body was found
the following afternoon.

According to the coroner's
report and the rigor mortis,

she'd probably been
laying there close to 24 hours.

That's ample time to drive

L.A. to San Francisco,
catch a flight.

The timing on all of this gets very,
very tight,

because it's a long way from

Trinidad to Los Angeles.

I would have had to go from
Trinidad to Los Angeles

I don't know when...


And then gone back to
Los Angeles to Trinidad,

and then gone to San Francisco
and flown to New York.

And they just conclude...

That's not much time
to do all that.

Mm-hmm.

And the L.A. Police
have been

investigating for a while now,

and they're unable to
put him in Los Angeles.

But they were able to
put you in California.

California is a big state.

The night that I found
out, I went to Susan's house.

There was just a pool
of blood there,

and Susan's hair in the blood.

And, you know, it was, um,
very disturbing, of course.

And then the little,
the little paw prints

of the little doggies, you know,
through, through that.

And it was, you know,
it was horrible.

It was, it was really
a terrible thing to see,

and a terrible thing to see
one of your friends like that.

A terrible thing to see.

There is no justice for Susan,

because somebody took her life away,
you know,

and she was, she really was

living valiantly to put
her life together.

There is justice that remains
for everyone who's left behind.

It's, it's for us...
Not for Susan.

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Mm-hmm.

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The truth.
The truth will set you free.

The truth would help it
be all over.

Once they had completed
the crime scene investigation,

her body had been removed
by the coroner's office.

Susan's possessions
were released to Sareb Kaufman,

who was the only family that she
had there that they could find.

The best I can ever hope for

in finding out what happened is that it,
for some reason,

does turn out to be
a random act of v*olence.

That somebody just
thought they were

robbing a house that had
nothing and k*lled her.

That's the best I can hope for.

Outside of that, it's a friend.

It's somebody she knew.

It's somebody I've spoken to.

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First saved voice message.

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First saved voice message.

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Well, do you, do you want to,

should we come up
and see what you got?

Or do you want to
bring it with you?

What do you...?
Yeah.

All right.
All right. Bye.

I didn't want you to think,
you know, I felt bad.

- I was like...
What's all this?

Well, these are audiotapes that
were in Susan's possession.

So, some of them...

Like,
probably from interviews she did.

Right.
And then the memorial is in there.

So, let me see the letter.

And, I mean,
of course I told you this, but...

He showed
me a letter from Bob to Susan

that was from March
before she was m*rder*d.

The address
written on the front

is exactly like
the "cadaver" note,

down to the misspelling
of "Beverly."

So,
I'm not trying to make you feel...

No. Like I said,
and this is kind of why...

Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, I got you. Got you.

You know, I'm, I,
it was clear enough

that I might be
dancing with the devil.

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I do.

Is it possible for us to get

the inventory of what was
taken out of Susan's house

after she was m*rder*d?

Because, you know,
you can ask Coulter

whether he saw
any other letters.

_

No, I tried.
I dug really deep today.

- No chance.
- No chance.

No chance.
No chance.

Are you opening up
your safe deposit?

Yeah. So,
I have to fill out...

I would like to take
the next month and, you know,

nothing's bringing Susan back

and nobody's going to know
that we have this document.

So, what about,
we interview Bob?

We bring it up.

We have it on film.

And now we have something

that the LAPD's
going to really want.

Because now we have,
without all the bullshit,

without having to go through


of discovery
and all that stuff.

We've got Bob reacting clean

to this hugely important
piece of evidence.

Bob second interview.