Disappearance of Shere Hite, The (2023)

[bunniefuu]

NICOLE:

I must be in the mirror.

Uh-huh.

That's for Nicole.

Okay. Hm.

SHERE: Well, honestly,

and I would love

if I had a chance to go

and buy some clothes.

NICOLE: Um...

Cut.

CAMERAMAN:

Just one second, Dave.

Cole, you have to lean

back on the couch.

Lean straight back, Cole.

Okay.

Um, I really want you

to take the lead in this.

I mean, I'm going to just ask

this and that question,

but you take over

as much as you like.

- Okay.

- You say that your book,

in a sense, redefined sex.

The stereotype in our culture

has been that women should

orgasm from intercourse itself.

That is from thrusting.

- [ Laughter ]

- Billy, free to stop sniggering.

Cut, please.

At the start of your book,

you write,

"Masturbation is,

in a very real sense,

one of the most important

subjects discussed in this book

and a cause for celebration."

Would you talk about that?

Well, masturbation is really

a cause for celebration

because it represents

female sexuality underground.

The majority of women,

even since Kinsey's time,

know how to masturbate

to orgasm easily,

regularly, with great pleasure.

So, this shows that women know

how to have orgasms

when they want, contrary

to the popular stereotype

that women have a "problem,"

in quotes,

with sex.

That's pretty

radical stuff for 1976.

Yes, it was.

I looked sort of nervous.

- Yeah. [ Laughs ]

- Did you feel nervous?

I mean, you were talking about

things people didn't talk about.

I suppose I was nervous,

of course.

[ Fast violin music playing ]

GERALDO: During the course

of this program,

we'll be talking about

intercourse,

masturbation, orgasm,

and other topics covered by

an extraordinary nationwide

survey of female sexuality

called "The Hite Report."

ANCHOR: Shere, your book is

made up of this questionnaire.

I'd like to know why you did it.

I was in graduate school

and I was studying history

of the Enlightenment,

of all things.

And it occurred to me

that sex also is an institution,

especially the way

we practice intercourse,

foreplay, and all of that.

PRESENTER 1: Who is Shere Hite?

Her childhood interrupted

three times by divorce.

A sexologist,

a social researcher,

and even a cultural historian.

Her research has made her

a best-selling author.

MIKE: The Macmillan

Publishing Company

couldn't churn the books

out fast enough.

REGINA:

"The Hite Report" gave voice

to people who never had a voice,

to experiences people

never had an opportunity

to even discuss before.

The feelings and knowledge

and experience

of thousands of women

in our time.

WOMAN:

Shere Hite has sold more than

20 million books

around the world.

MAN: 36 countries

and 19 languages.

Some of the best-selling books

of our time.

Shere, you've probably

done more research

in-depth on male sexuality

than anybody else

who ever lived.

MAN: There is some

dispute about your methodology.

You were criticized

by some of the reviewers.

What she says

is always controversial.

Do you think that out

of your work

will come another

sexual revolution?

This is going to lead

to real changes

in the definition of sex

between men and women.

WOMAN: Is there

any danger in that?

Equality doesn't seem dangerous

to me.

[ Soulful music playing ]

After all, if it's possible

once, it's possible again.

What I'm trying to work out

is how.

The most mysterious of organs,

the female vag*na,

the vulva, the uterus,

and especially the clitoris.

Names and information

about these organs

were suppressed for long periods

in Western history.

For centuries, it was said

that women have difficulty

having orgasms.

Men's orgasms are

so much stronger,

their sexual organs bigger,

and none of this is true.

The most common means to orgasm

has no name at all.

The fact that there's been

no word for clitoral stimulation

for most of Western history

shows how clearly the culture

has tried to stamp out

knowledge of women's bodies

and to stamp out women's

enjoyment and pleasure.

[ Soulful music playing ]

CAMERAMAN: Speeding.

- WOMAN: Okay.

- Close in.

Slate coming in.

- Oh, my God, like the movies.

- Uh-huh.

[ Laughs ]

[ Soft piano music playing ]

REGINA: I live on

Central Park West,

and I had seen her

in the neighborhood

because she lived

right across the street.

This wonderful creature going

along with this gorgeous hair.

This pinky strawberry blonde.

She had a sort of Lucille Ball

thing going with curls up top.

Very graceful,

always dramatically dressed.

And very striking,

very beautiful.

She looked spectacular,

walking down the street.

So, I'd seen her, but I didn't

know who she was or anything.

I went to a feminist party.

Everybody there was talking

about what she was doing.

Night after night, grinding out

mimeograph questionnaires

on sex and sexuality.

I made contact with her,

and I invited her to lunch,

a place I went a lot, and mostly

men in this French restaurant.

And in she came, tall, willowy.

And after her entrance,

which stunned everyone,

her voice sang out with

"the clitoris" and "the vag*na."

I was just like, "Oh, yes.

Oh, really?

How interesting."

And everybody was just

riveted by this.

So, of course, I got excited.

I took on the book.

Then I worked with her down

in her apartment,

which is right

across the street.

NARRATOR AS SHERE:

This is where I was living

in the basement of the building.

Those were the windows

and door outside my apartment.

But I made it real nice.

But inside, it was beautiful.

[ Car horns honking ]

My grandfather was

sending me to college.

I have been going

to state schools

but now at Columbia,

the tuition was huge.

And I borrowed it from

the government loan.

But I felt,

how could I ever pay this back?

I was, in fact,

one of the only women

in that graduate

history program.

[ Typewriter clacking ]

They thought I would

be a schoolteacher,

but I knew

I was studying history

because I couldn't

understand the present.

[ Crowd chanting

"We want equality!" ]

Why were there

so many inequalities?

Columbia has consistently

refused to alter these policies.

AS SHERE: Why were people

often so uncaring?

Why couldn't everybody

have an equal chance?

JACQUES: Changes that we keep

complaining about and groaning

about are surface changes.

They're merely irritants.

AS SHERE:

The day I met Jacques Barzun,

I told him

I had come to Columbia

because I admired his program,

History of Western Thought,

1789 to Present.

In a timid voice, I said,

"Did you have time to look

at my master's thesis?"

"Well, I did read it.

But honestly, I don't believe

you wrote it.

And besides, I'm absolutely sure

that you don't have

most of these books

at the University

of Florida library."

That was one of my first

experiences in class prejudice,

in addition to gender prejudice,

overtly expressed.

I had no money, none.

As a student,

I had to earn money on the side.

I was advised by people

around me in 1969

to use my looks

to make a living.

MIKE: I first met Shere when

I was a studio manager

at a photographer's studio

on Central Park West.

Going through Shere's portfolio,

she had a very unique style,

and I tried to show different

aspects of her personality.

And she liked what I was doing.

After my day at work and after

her pounding the pavement,

Shere would bring

over her unique outfits.

I would have Rolling Stones

on or the Beatles or Bob Dylan.

[ Tape rewinding ]

She would much prefer to have

her favorite

Rachmaninoff concerto.

And I didn't mind that.

I listened to it.

Barely. Yeah.

It was fine.

It was Shere.

AS SHERE:

Having to support myself,

what were my alternatives?

To become an out-and-out

prost*tute?

To be a secretary?

To get married?

Of all forms of prostitution,

any job within the system is,

I preferred this.

Modeling allowed me

the most independence of all

with perhaps the least

personal involvement.

PRODUCER: Was she the model

for both women?

Yeah, that's Shere

and this is Shere.

I had the Rolleiflex,

the finest camera you can own,

black and white Rollei.

And it has an a*t*matic shutter

release on it.

And you set the time.

She would move from one side

of me to the other,

and I'd just stand there

with a g*n.

She made my career,

I think, virtually.

She did this work

with illustrators

because she couldn't get enough

work as a high fashion model.

Paperback book covers

and illustration

was not held

in any esteem at all.

They were frowned on.

It was low-grade art.

[ Laughs ]

And that's what I was doing.

The two of us worked together

on all those covers.

We were a team.

AS SHERE:

I could earn a living.

The work was self-defined,

and even sometimes artistic.

Every day I wondered

how long it would be

until I could be of some

real use in the world.

Even though you were

with an agency,

you could never tell

how much money

you would have coming

in next month or next week.

And every day I had

to search for jobs.

MIKE: Shere was always broke,

couldn't pay the rent,

didn't have food.

She had this tiny

little apartment.

ROBERT: And when we go in

and she'd turn the lights on,

the roaches were scattering.

AS SHERE: Exhibit A.

There were rats in the building.

The other tenants and I were

in a struggle with...

MIKE:

The owner of the building,

he would turn off the heat

in the winter.

ROBERT: She was on a survival

situation in that apartment.

It was really bad.

MIKE: It was very rough,

but she made the most of it.

The nice thing about it,

it had access to its own

little tiny backyard.

She had a little dog, Rusty,

and he would like

to be outdoors.

I was crazy about her,

and we dated a bit.

We were both young,

Midwesterners, new to New York,

and we sort of liked being

a little bit different.

We'd go to old films together,

downtown, films from the '30s

and the '40s.

[ Woman speaks French ]

MIKE: We'd set up

pictures like that.

Shere found

this Greta Garbo hat.

Silly pictures.

They weren't job related.

But her real interest was

more intellectually advanced.

AS SHERE: In graduate school,

I was a specialist

in the French Revolution,

classical music

and Balkan farming.

Despite this, I had

an inclination

to take the historical facts

as presented with

a grain of salt.

KARLA: It was really hard to be

in graduate school at that time.

It was perfectly

acceptable to write

dissertation number 3,483

on Shakespeare's Hamlet,

but if you wanted to write

about sex or sexology,

you would just

make them totally crazy.

They told me to transfer to

the Women's Studies Department.

There was no

Women's Studies Department.

They were trying

to get rid of us,

and Shere was facing

the same thing.

I remember Shere as being

a bit shy.

She told me

that she was bisexual.

To make a statement like that,

as she did,

was extremely unpopular

at that time.

I met Shere at

the Gay Academic Union.

We often met

on the Upper West Side,

a group of graduate students,

college professors,

and independent scholars

whose work was being

dismissed,

ridiculed, diminished.

People came with their research

about artists' colonies

for lesbians in Paris,

for example, gay men who had

encircled Virginia Woolf,

women who were painting women.

We couldn't believe it.

These things had been

firmly suppressed for decades.

And we talked to each other

about our common experience

in academia.

AS SHERE: Columbia was

a major dose of failure.

Females don't belong.

I took a leave of absence.

Also eating me up was the

passivity required of females,

which made me very hostile.

What do I do?

I spend my days one by one

as a fashion model.

Caught in such a horrible trap,

it's just incredible.

False eyelashes were necessary

for modeling.

Standing in front of the small

bathroom mirror every morning,

putting them on, thinking,

"You're wasting your life.

You're wasting your life."

ROBERT: She once told me,

"Trying to maintain beauty

the way I do..."

She says, "It's such a hard job,

just to work constantly."

And she just seemed to be

at that point of giving up.

AS SHERE: Modeling is bad

because it reinforces

all the stereotyped roles

already so damaging

in our society.

Wife, mother, sweetheart,

sexpot, loud-mouthed bitch.

Formula... take an organism

with psyche

and drain it of all

but those characteristics,

and you have left

a packaged chicken.

Dehaired, ready to be

bought after being felt

and squeezed to find

the juiciest specimen.

We'll have order and submission,

nothing alive to frighten us.

We only want a pleasure machine,

a piece of wet raw meat

to wrap around our cocks

and feel comforted by.

I can't stand it anymore.

I don't know what to do.

Now I'm crying again, and my

eyes will burn again tomorrow.

[ Somber music playing ]

Around that time, I did some

photos with my friend,

the photographer Michael Wilson.

And I consider this one

a sort of self-portrait,

confronting myself.

It's just as simple as know

yourself, not your role.

It's hellishly hard.

[ Typewriters clacking ]

MAN: Who is the Olivetti girl?

ANNOUNCER: The Olivetti girl

is the best secretary

in the office.

WOMAN: Would you believe

the men in this office

never noticed me

until I became an Olivetti girl?

What does the Olivetti girl

have that I don't have?

The right equipment.

[ Snickers ]

[ Grunts ]

I did a commercial

for a typewriter company.

[ Grunts ]

And they sat me down

in front of the typewriter,

and I started typing

and he says,

"No, look at the camera

and flirt with the camera."

Now that I type sharper,

I look sharper.

I said, "Well, yeah. But why?"

And they said, "Well, because

the caption is going to say...

ANNOUNCER: The typewriter

with a brain inside.

SHERE: "the typewriter

that's so smart

that she doesn't have to be."

Right?

I felt fairly odd about that.

Then I read in the newspaper

how there was some women's group

or something picketing in front

of the headquarters

of this corporation

on Park Avenue.

[ Women chanting ]

SHERE: And I thought,

"Oh, it sounds interesting.

Should I go? Or shouldn't I?

Finally, I went.

[ Women chanting ]

JOYCE: I was treasurer of

the National Organization

for Women in New York.

The group that I was

very active in was

the Image of Women Committee.

I was at a NOW meeting.

She just came in and sat

next to me.

AS SHERE: I didn't tell anyone

at first

that I was in one of the ads

they were picketing,

listening to the animated

discussion I gained confidence,

and finally whispered to Joyce,

whom I had just met.

She burst out,

"Listen, everybody,

you'll never guess who's here."

Everyone turned to stare.

They said, "You see,

even the women in the ads

don't like them."

And off they rushed into new

areas discussing this point.

I loved it.

SHERE: And I got very involved

in that women's group.

And I made friends

that I've still got today.

[ Women cheering ]

When I'm walking down

the street

And every guy I meet

Says, "Baby, ain't you sweet,"

I just could scream

Though I know

the guys are sick

And think only

of their prick

And I'm tired of f*ckers

f*cking over me

[ Women laughing ]

Okay. We're tired of f*ckers

f*cking over us.

Right?

ALL: Yeah.

Let's do it for the time.

Don't forget that you've

the time to fall, all right?

Hail! Hail!

The dykes are here!

What the hell

do we care now?

AS SHERE: It was new for me

to find a place

where I fit in so well.

The movement's

intellectual debates

made Columbia University's

look pale and anemic.

Brilliant ideas were

a daily occurrence.

KARLA: We wanted to

take on male institutions

and see whether we could

make a cultural change.

We chose

the Natural History Museum.

We called it

the Museum of Unnatural History.

In the displays,

there were men hunting,

fishing, building homes.

Every woman in every continent

of the world had a pot.

Every woman had a baby

strapped to the front,

to the back,

in a little basket like Moses.

Not just women, but how

indigenous people

around the world

were being portrayed.

[ Indistinct chanting ]

AS SHERE: I began to feel

a space in which I could be me,

an atmosphere

that would not harm me.

Like a light suddenly

switched on in a dark room.

KARLA: We formed consciousness

raising groups.

REGINA: The idea was to just

listen to women's voices.

Cannot make these

decisions about your own body.

This is one thing we obviously

wanted, that women should have,

should be able to have

abortions on demand.

They should be, if not free,

they should be very low cost,

so that there's no

discrimination

on economic grounds.

JANET: I was at the confluence

of three movements.

One was the second stage

of the women's movement.

The second one was

the burgeoning

of the cognitive behavior

therapy movement,

and the sex revolution.

So, I was really in the right

place at the right time.

And very lucky to be there.

This is the dawning

of the age of asparagus

Age of asparagus

Good girl.

I'm a clinical psychologist,

and my specialty

is human sexuality

and working with couples.

I had a strong personal

interest in sex.

In the early '60s,

when I first moved to New York

and was making $75 a week

as a research assistant...

I discovered one evening when

I was walking around

Fifth Avenue that men would

keep approaching me.

Finally, it did occur to me when

one of them actually spoke up

that he wanted to have sex.

So, I thought, "What the hell?"

So I started supplementing

my income

by getting together with men

and having sex with them.

And some of them I actually

remained friendly with

for years.

It was an interesting

group of people.

I also finished my undergraduate

degree at Columbia.

So I had a personal and

professional interest in sex.

And then right around

that same time, I met Shere.

I think we were both very

committed to helping women,

especially after

my internship experience

where I was the only female

on the ward

and couldn't have cases

of my own.

And the chief psychiatrist

would often comment

on my skirt length.

And my first sexual relationship

with a man ended in disaster.

I got pregnant, and I didn't

have another relationship

with a man for a long time.

And I also became terrified

of sexuality.

You know, like, to know

or to try to know

where I am, you know,

and to be aware of how I feel,

not to just plunge.

I don't like anybody who just

likes to plunge in

and decide what is,

this a man, you know.

All right, here, here we go,

rap, rap,

and it's over,

because that's not it.

Sex is making love,

actually, not just f*cking.

JANET: At that point, I started

doing assertiveness training

for women

and sex education workshops.

How long women have to go

along with their bodies

being this dark, mysterious,

kind of painful thing

that they know nothing about?

JANET: We gave women

the homework of going home

and looking in the mirror

and examining their genitals,

which many of them

had never done.

And even more of them

had never seen the clitoris.

SHERE: The women's group

I was involved

in got into a debate

about Masters and Johnson.

In their first book,

they had said

that women's orgasms needed

clitoral stimulation.

But in the second book

they said,

"Yes, but, even

though that's true,

you should get indirect

clitoral stimulation

through simple intercourse."

So, I thought, "Well, maybe

we'll have a conference,

we can debate this topic."

But then all my friends said,

"Yeah, well, who's gonna be the

first one to stand up and say,

'Yeah, how I orgasm is...'"

I mean, nobody was going

to do this, right?

MIKE: Shere would go to these

self-awareness meetings

and she started a conversation

about masturbation.

She would ask everybody

in the audience,

"Do you masturbate?"

You know, "Raise your hands."

And most people are very shy

and did not do that.

So she came up with this idea

of making an anonymous

questionnaire.

SHERE:

I made up a questionnaire.

I wanted women to send them

back to me anonymously.

And since I had been

in graduate school,

I sort of had an idea,

you know, how to do that.

WOMAN: I started passing

it out around town.

MIKE:

I was one of the helpers.

I had the motorcycle.

Shere would have a big

cardboard box of surveys,

and we'd strap it on

with bungee cords

on the back of the motorcycle.

She'd put on her helmet

and hop on.

Zoom across town to some place

that was going to

distribute the surveys.

Not just uptown or downtown,

all over the place.

Up in the Bronx, Williamsburg,

Brooklyn, Chinatown.

SHERE: Then I began

distributing questionnaires

to women all over the country,

to women's groups,

to church groups,

to all kinds of groups.

I sent out questionnaires

in batches.

I advertised the questionnaires

in magazines.

MARTIN: I was the editor

of a magazine called Sexology.

It was a digest-size magazine

that was meant to bring

sex education

to the general population.

And I received a letter one day,

and it just sort of

attracted my attention.

Most letters that I would get

would be typewritten,

but this one came with

a kind of a red bold

handwriting, very, very fluid.

AS SHERE: "Dear Mr. Sage,

I've been distributing

the enclosed questionnaire

to women all over the country.

Would very much enjoy

contributing to your magazine.

Sincerely, Shere Hite."

The handwriting was alluring,

and so I was curious.

[ Telephone rings ]

We arranged to have lunch,

and this woman walks in

kind of mix matched clothing

and an electric hairdo.

We talked, and she explained

what she was doing.

There was a kind of warmth

that was beginning

to build up between us.

You know, I didn't really know

how to deal with it

since I was married at the time.

I had to call my office

and explain

that I'd be back

from lunch a little bit late.

And, all of a sudden, somebody

crawled into the phone booth

next to me, and it was her.

She was gonna make a call

after I did.

But normally people wait

until you exit the phone booth.

It was kind of an intense

meeting of bodies.

I went back to the office.

Shere had already called

three times.

I said, "This is going

to be a problem for you."

We struck up a relationship,

and it went from there.

She was always working,

and if she wasn't working,

she was sleeping, and if she

wasn't sleeping, she was eating.

One night, I went with her

to the printing press.

They printed anti-w*r leaflets

and all sorts of stuff

during the day,

and at night, they would allow

her to use the printing press.

AS SHERE: I learned to run

a printing press myself.

I had to pay for ink

and electricity and bring paper.

MIKE: They taught her how to

type up a mimeograph sheet

that she'd put on the roller

and get it all going.

Thousands of copies

by hand, herself.

MARTIN: She would choose

the inks and mix them,

the same color of her

nail polish at the time.

Her hands would be stained

with ink.

SHERE: I put designs,

I used colored ink.

I wanted people to feel this

was something very personal,

that they were

writing their diary,

or just talking to themselves

in their most private moment.

This is free.

You can say whatever you want.

[ Horn honks ]

It's not a multiple choice

questionnaire either,

because we felt that, who would

know the categories of answers?

So, we're asking

open ended questions.

Would you like me to read

some of them?

Okay, well,

it starts out mildly.

Is one orgasm

sexually satisfying?

If not, how many?

How do your thoughts

and emotions

affect your desire for orgasms?

If I read them all,

it will take all the time.

- Well, there's...

- And then it, just a minute,

and then it asks a lot

of questions about masturbation.

What do you think

is the importance?

Do you enjoy it?

And how do you do it?

And that's really important,

because that's when women

have most orgasms.

So, how that's done, you know,

should be something

that begins to be incorporated

into a lot of love making.

And it's fascinating.

We have 2,000 answers back now.

That's what all these things

are here.

It's really wonderful every day

to get the mail.

You know, you open it up,

you get these fantastic things.

[ Soulful music playing ]

WOMAN 1: I am 21 years old,

of Hawaiian

and Chinese ancestry.

I have been married

for two years.

We're lower-middle class.

My husband, a college student,

and I, an unemployed secretary.

WOMAN 2: I'm 23, Jewish,

raised mostly in New York.

WOMAN 3: 39 years old, Black,

physical education teacher.

WOMAN 4: Age 47,

brought up strict Methodist.

WOMAN 5: 32, college dropout.

WOMAN 6: I was 75

this September,

living alone,

and I don't miss anything.

WOMAN 7: I can always tell

if my partner

really wants me for me

or me for my body.

WOMAN 8: For years I never

told my real needs to a man.

To a woman, I can say

how I want to feel.

WOMAN 9: I never even

told my mother

when I started menstruating.

And I went on birth control

on my own

through Planned Parenthood.

I'd like to thank them

right here.

WOMAN 10: I don't fall in love.

I find it hard to trust,

to be open with men.

WOMAN 11: I would like

to act freely

and happily on

my impulses and desires.

WOMAN 12: For many years,

I thought I was different

to other women.

It has caused me

a great deal of worry.

WOMAN 13: I am now,

at this moment,

on a freighter in the North Sea

where I have been a cook

for 10 weeks.

It is a drizzly night.

We're stuck on a sandbar

in rough water and fog.

I have never written

about sex before.

And, as I enjoy writing

and I enjoy sex,

it could be

an intriguing exercise.

Previously, I thought little of

the women's lib and its issues.

But I have not yet in my life

experienced a heavier,

more concentrated dose

of male chauvinism

than provided by being

the only woman

on a freighter among young men

who I am unwilling to f*ck.

I'm a little provoked

with men at sea.

SHERE:

I didn't know their names,

but I knew where they were from.

I knew their age.

I never had heard in detail

how women felt about

all kinds of things having to do

with our private lives.

And I thought

they were very important.

REGINA: I thought, "Every

woman's gonna want to read this,

you know, and men should, too."

Masters and Johnson had

just come out with a study,

and there was the Kinsey report.

My husband said, "Well, there's

only one title this could be.

"The Hite Report."

I have a geographical

distribution, at this point.

It turned out to cover

the whole country very well.

And I'm doing

the statistics now.

DYLAN: She would give me these

oversized sheets of graph paper

that had columns... orgasm,

masturbation, intercourse,

clitoral stimulation,

other, and notes.

I grew up in a family where sex

was treated very clinically.

It's like something you pick up

with a tweezers

and put over here.

It was just not something

that would ever be fun.

I was 18, and a sophomore

at Barnard College.

I went by myself to this

NOW conference

just out of sheer curiosity.

And I saw this stunning woman

behind a table

that was laden high

with these very interesting,

daring, kind of

forbidden questionnaires.

And I said, "Can I work for you?

I'll work for you for nothing."

And she said,

"I have to pay you.

I just can't pay you

very much."

And it was that fast.

You know, we just clicked.

I would sit out in the hallway

outside her apartment,

and smoke like a fiend,

with a stack of questionnaires.

SHERE: Do you have orgasms?

- Yes.

- Yes.

Several times a week.

WOMAN 14: No, because it

would take lots of encouragement

and not being uptight

about the whole thing.

WOMAN 15: Yes, but in my rather

long life, too few.

WOMAN 16: I'm not really sure

that what I think

may have been an orgasm

really was one.

I don't know what would

contribute to having them.

I don't think I feel free

to have them.

AS SHERE: Please describe what

an orgasm feels like to you.

How does your body feel?

WOMAN 17:

Fluttery sort of feeling.

Almost as if my body

wasn't there.

WOMAN 18: Like you can't move

and, I mean, just like caught.

WOMAN 19: That's when

it's really getting good.

Some women will say one thing,

others say another.

WOMAN: Often, I touch

my face with my left hand.

Sometimes I kiss this hand.

When I'm close to coming,

I have to hold on

really tight to something.

WOMAN 20: Waves flushing

through my body,

beginning at my clitoris

and spreading forever outward.

Like any feeling, you can't say.

What does cold feel like,

you know?

What does anything feel like?

DYLAN: You have to translate

from prose

these little mini stories

that women were writing

into something like,

always, usually.

Do your orgasms usually occur

during cunnilingus,

manual clitoral stimulation,

intercourse,

or other activities?

Sometimes. Rarely. Never.

WOMAN 21: I've never reached

orgasm through intercourse.

WOMAN 22: I always have them

during masturbation.

WOMAN 23: I've only made love

once with a woman.

I was too nervous

to achieve orgasm.

WOMAN 24: I've also had orgasms

with no sexual stimulation.

Just running down a street,

in dreams,

and at other odd moments.

And then we would count them up.

Always numeral I-A,

followed by a T in a circle,

always apart.

WOMAN 25: My legs usually

collapse in a diamond shape.

And that is how I fall asleep.

Open, closed, apart,

apart, apart.

SHERE: We tried to put together

a composite picture

of what everybody said.

WOMAN 26:

I love vaginal penetration

if accompanied

by clitoral foreplay.

DYLAN: Circle with X in it

means manual stimulation,

plus, intercourse equals orgasm.

Purple, prefer with penetration.

It was kind of like embroidery,

like little stitches,

then they all had

to come together

and mean something and form

a larger pattern.

SHERE: The statistics

that we're getting,

if you want to use that term,

and faking orgasm is like 95%.

Because even women who,

you know,

they know better

and they understand,

they've been in consciousness

raising and all of this,

they still do it sometimes

because the men haven't been

in consciousness raising.

And, you know, like, a lot

of women don't like intercourse

that much, and they've got

somebody on top of them,

they can't breathe,

they're lying there,

they can't move, right?

[ Both laughing ]

She's laughing. So...

[ Both laughing ]

Anyway, the phrase is,

"Anything to get them off,"

you know?

And that's really terrible

when it gets to that state,

you know?

We've been adapting our bodies

to male sexuality for centuries.

And so I think that now

what we have to do

is we have to take ourselves

out of that situation,

see ourselves

just for ourselves,

and then take that knowledge

and relate to other people

of whatever sex,

but to be doing things

that are right for us.

[ Classical music playing ]

This really became my life

for five years,

and it was more fulfilling than,

in many ways,

many of the relationships

that you could have

because so many women telling me

so many things really,

I felt that I had 3,000

very close friends, really.

REGINA: We went to celebrate

the book coming out,

and we had lunch

in the Tavern on the Green.

And it was so beautiful,

and there was rain coming down

on top of a skylight.

It was just a wonderful day.

We were so happy, both glowing.

"We did it."

[ Laughs ]

It was before

all the terrible criticism,

I think, had come her way.

[ Music continues ]

Some years later,

I learned that the sales manager

had ordered the sales force

not to get more than

4,000 advance orders,

which would determine

the printing,

which would determine

the book's fate.

They hated the book.

They really tried

to sabotage it,

keep it down, keep it down.

SHERE: They were only gonna

print 4,000 copies

and do no publicity.

And after five years' work,

I really didn't think it was

right to let it just go down

the drain like that.

MARTIN: We were talking about

how the book can be presented.

And she said,

"This is a news story."

I said, "Well, then why not have

a news conference?"

This was like

a lightning bolt splitting

and hitting two

heads simultaneous.

And within really just

a few short days,

we put this together.

SHERE: I'm Shere Hite,

the author of "The Hite Report,"

which is a study of 3,000 women.

Can you hear me?

Can everyone hear?

Okay.

MARTIN:

We thought it would be best

that she have a panel so that

not only could she

present the book

from her point of view,

but others could be in support.

SHERE: This is Kay Whitlock

from NOW,

the National NOW

Sexuality Taskforce

on Lesbianism and Sexuality.

KAY: I was thrilled that

Shere would actually reach out

to this lesbian NOW Taskforce.

There were several people

speaking, all esteemed

sexuality educators

and researchers,

and I was kind of

the young punk on the block.

As women, we will not be free

until we come to terms with our

own definitions of sexuality,

and take charge

of our own sexual lives.

When I got a copy

of Shere's book,

I just thought,

"Holy sh*t, this is amazing."

Lesbian, heterosexual,

bisexual, celibate,

"The Hite Report"

doesn't fall prey

into dividing people

as society does.

SHERE: Some people's reaction

was that it sounded

very radical.

[ Chuckles ] To me, it doesn't

sound radical at all.

The most important finding

in my study

is that a majority of women

don't orgasm from intercourse.

That's what we're here

to talk about today.

This is Janet Wolfe.

JANET: Suppose men were

programmed with the idea

that their sex organ

was their testicles,

women would diddle around

every once in a while,

on the penis.

But men were expected

to have orgasm

simply by stimulating

their balls.

What would that have been like?

I mean, it's inconceivable

for people to think,

but that's exactly

what happened to women.

SHERE: In short, our whole idea

of sex must be re-evaluated.

We need to make a new

kind of physical relations

to go with a new,

more humane society,

and that's my statement.

[ Applause ]

GERALDO: Hello.

I'm Geraldo Rivera.

Good evening, and welcome

to a special edition

of "Good Night America."

AS SHERE: The words

"clitoris" and "orgasm"

were not permitted

in many newspapers,

as if that part of women's

anatomy was dirty

and had to be hidden.

GERALDO: Masturbation, orgasm,

don't get hung up,

don't get turned on,

and don't get turned off

by the use of those words.

They're just words.

AS SHERE: So even to use

the words was heroic

on the part of journalists.

Please join me in welcoming

our special guest

this evening, Miss Shere Hite.

[ Applause ]

- Hi.

- Hi.

Your book has really caused

a tremendous stir.

And I just wonder,

Masters and Johnson went to

great lengths to describe

exactly how women achieved

orgasm through intercourse.

Your study contradicts that.

I want you to talk a little bit

more about that, Shere.

Masters and Johnson made

a tremendous step forward

in that they studied and showed

clinically, for the first time,

that all orgasms are caused

by clitoral stimulation.

And we really have them

to thank for that.

However, when they described

how it's done,

the thrusting of the penis

causes the vaginal lips to move,

which causes the skin

that's connected

to the clitoris to move,

which causes the glans

to move over the clitoris,

which supposedly

gives you orgasm.

But that doesn't work

for most women,

and I called it, unkindly,

a Rube Goldberg model.

There's just too many

variables involved.

It's funny, when you describe it

that way, it kind of sounds

like the knee bone

connected to the shinbone.

That's right. [ Laughs ]

That's right.

[ Laughter ]

What percentage of...

KAY: Shere was breaking

a functional silence.

It was brave in a way

that took my breath away.

I wonder what the notoriety

that has attached

already to "The Hite Report,"

and certainly that will grow,

what effect has it had on you?

The main problem I've been

up against is to try

and make sure that things

that are written reflect

accurately what it is

that the book is saying,

and keep the emphasis

on the fact

that women are speaking out,

and that it's

a communal discussion

and not anything

having to do with me.

Have you been successful

in hearing...

I think pretty much most of

the things

that have been written have been

very good and very serious.

I'm very pleased.

PRESENTER:

National Public Radio...

MAN: Author Shere Hite.

WOMAN: The Hite Report,

phenomenal success.

WOMAN 2: News Weekly,

biggest sex study

since Masters and Johnson.

MARTIN: The book got such good

coverage and such good press

from the get-go,

primarily from women.

There's very short amount

of time between the release

of the book and kind of the book

becoming a phenomenon.

It was so short that

I think she was swept up in it,

and she could only

have been surprised

for a very short amount of time

before the reality hit her,

"This is a success."

MAN: But we have

new book on it today.

MAN 2: Is there

a new book on sex?

"The Hite Report."

Yeah, yeah, yeah,

a woman's point of view.

Ugh!

You know, only been 200 million

years we've been doing this.

All of a sudden, they got to

give you diagrams how to do it.

- That's right.

- You don't think that the women

should have any point of view?

[ Laughs ] No, no.

I say what they're doing

is making a book

out of a woman's point of view.

In the bookstores these days,

there's one section

that's getting almost as big

as the cooking book section,

and that's female sexuality.

Is there room for yet

another book?

There is, apparently,

"The Hite Report."

AS SHERE: Consequences

of publishing a successful book

were a real culture shock to me.

It seems odd to me

that penetration

wouldn't satisfy a woman,

and I wonder

if we're made wrong.

Or if there's

some terrific joke.

AS SHERE: I found the newspaper

and TV situation confusing.

NICOLE: What does

your study tell us

about how women

really do define sex?

Well, women see sex as something

that values very much

the intimacy,

the closeness, touching,

the expression of feelings.

WOMAN: That's not new.

That we know.

We've known that women...

Well, you see,

I can't do it by...

You see, I'm already finding

myself when I said that,

saying something that doesn't...

You see, I have to couch

the language

in a way that reflects

how my study went.

I can't... you said I was...

I'm undefining sex.

I can't tell you

what the new sex will be.

AS SHERE:

I didn't know how to react.

Articles often seemed not

to reflect the ideas

I meant to communicate.

MAN: Was it a political ploy

you were using to suggest

that women didn't need men?

But why would I want to do that?

Well, that came through to me...

Can I quote you from page 169,

I'll quote you directly...

GERALDO: If there has been

a backlash to your report

amongst men it is because of

a fear that masturbation

will then become

the ultimate sex act

and men will become

in some way irrelevant.

WOMAN: That's terrible.

All you need is one super stud

around to service each nation.

What about the men in your life?

Are they intimidated by the fact

that you are now

such an expert in this field?

No, I don't think so.

I think everybody that I know is

very involved in the spirit

of the whole thing and very...

Everybody is so excited

about the changes

that are possible and involved

in their own change

that I haven't found

that at all.

REGINA: She moved to

the Hotel Alden down the block,

quite different

from the basement apartment.

MARTIN:

As the book became successful,

Shere threw a party to celebrate

all of the respondents

to the questionnaire.

And she'd gotten enough money

back to reimburse

all of the people

who had loaned her money

over the course

of the writing of the book.

DYLAN: I remember the cake,

and I remember all the names

going around the cake.

And that was very important

to her.

She's a very generous person

who shares the credit.

She did ask me to give her

money, and I gave her money.

MARTIN: Shere had gotten

a meager advance,

but the book

was years in creation.

She would borrow money

from anybody

who seemed to be coming along.

MIKE: A lot of people

fell in love with the project

and in love with Shere.

MARTIN: At one point,

she turned to me,

and she said, "You know,

I'm kind of short of money,

and you've never offered

to loan me any money," you know?

Sure, the answer is sure.

I had to go to a bank and get

a cash advance

on my credit card.

AS SHERE:

Men have all the money.

They also have a lot easier time

getting loans than women do.

WOMAN: Women couldn't get

a credit card.

You had to have

a man vouch for you.

I mean, the laws were horrific.

She actually borrowed money

from someone

who worked in my building.

The porter. He became

a good friend of hers.

He helped support her

while she was writing this.

MARTIN: Maybe that was

the happiest I've ever seen her.

She had a smile on her face

that just was endless.

SHERE: This is for you.

Yeah. I can't read that.

I can't read most of them.

Did you get any

interesting letters yet?

SHERE: I've been doing

a questionnaire for men

for two years, and in a couple

more years,

I'll be done with it.

WOMAN: TIME Magazine

suggests your next book

will be called

"Do Men Need Intercourse?"

SHERE: No, it's not going

to be called that.

It's going to be about

how men feel about sex.

AS SHERE: I had a few

boyfriends over those years.

One, I liked a lot.

A struggling young artist.

ED: I moved to New York

January of 1977.

I had a raw loft in Chelsea.

I was living out of a suitcase.

I didn't even have a dresser

to put my clothes in.

I got on to a painting crew

at the Alden Hotel,

painting all the corridors.

One day, a door opened

and a woman

with bright orange hair

came out.

She said, "Hello.

Would you be interested

in painting my windows?"

I didn't know who she was.

I noticed boxes and boxes

of books with the title

"The Hite Report."

And they were in all

different languages,

Hebrew even.

We hit it off right away.

She gave me a copy.

And I guess I had what you

would call a baptism of fire.

I learned a lot about her ideas,

being more aware of my feelings

and also how my behavior

affected her and other women.

She was so interesting

and so charming.

I was kind of mesmerized,

I guess.

AS SHERE: He was beautiful,

in both body and spirit.

I don't remember much about

how we made love.

Though I remember that together,

we concocted magnificent shades

of pale yellow, ivory, and rose

in different finishes

for the walls and moldings.

When the sunlight

hit these colors,

the walls appeared luminescent.

ED: She was just working

all the time.

It was a small one-bedroom,

and she used the front room

as the office, couple of doors

on file cabinets for desks,

and she had a lot of people

working for her.

MARTIN: While she was working

on the men's book,

she was also conceiving

a follow-up survey

for women

about their emotional lives.

Even though she had a completely

different background

from so many of the women

that were writing

and filling out

the questionnaires,

she was experiencing

what they were experiencing,

what does it mean

to be in a relationship.

So she was one of them.

AS SHERE: The purpose

of this questionnaire

is to hear women's

point of view on questions

that were left unanswered

in the original Hite Report.

How women feel about love,

relationships, marriage,

and monogamy were not covered

due to lack of funds.

I think these should be taped.

You need somebody to hire

and efficiently send...

Now, here's...

MARTIN: In some cases,

women would record cassettes

of their replies

to the questionnaire.

SHERE: Looks like I have to

switch to a tape recorder

because this is ridiculous.

It's taking me much too long

to type.

WOMAN: The women's movement,

I think, is interesting.

I'm a Black woman,

and I'm doing some research

now on the Black woman's

feminist movement.

I think we've always been torn.

We don't want to put

our men down.

And we're not exactly

what a white woman

is in terms

of what her goals are.

It's a very tricky situation.

SHERE: I'm embarrassed to admit

that I skimmed "The Hite Report"

for my own answers.

I answered that questionnaire

when I was 20 years old.

One time,

as a sneaky experiment,

I showed the book

to a boyfriend, a new boyfriend,

pretending to just

randomly open a page,

but actually opening it

to a quote by me about sex.

He read the page and then

he said, "This is gross.

Did you read this one?"

Pointing to what I had written.

WOMAN: What is your

own description of yourself?

I'm a female, very proud

of being a woman.

I like being a woman.

I think I'm very strong.

I can do anything that I set

my mind to doing.

And I like that.

I like the strength

of the female.

MARTIN: She would listen

to them and remark

upon how lovely

these people sounded,

and their tone of voice and how

gracious and caring they were,

and aspirational they were.

Wouldn't it be?

Couldn't it be?

That was who she was.

She was drawing strength

from them

in a way that helped propel

her further in her work.

My name is Mariko Tse.

I am a spokesperson

for the Asian/Pacific

American Women's Caucus.

National Indian Women's

and Alaskan Natives Caucus.

I'm Sandra Serrano Sewell,

president of

Comisin Femenil

Mexicana Nacional.

MAN: In Houston, there's a huge

National Women's Conference.

MAN 2: The largest gathering

of women in American history.

They will approve

a national plan

to improve the status of women.

There were strong differences

of opinion on how to do that.

And Texas Congresswoman

Barbara Jordan

appealed for reason

and compromise.

And when the debate

becomes heated,

I hope you will remember

Lyndon Johnson's invocation

of Isaiah's invocation,

"Come now, let us

reason together."

[ Cheers and applause ]

MAN 3: Across town there was

an even bigger gathering.

Many are

Fundamentalist Christian.

They're against

the Equal Rights Amendment.

They're against

abortion on demand.

They're against laws

favoring h*m*.

Their numbers indicate

that a lot of people

in this country fear the changes

that the women's movement

is trying to make.

KAY: Shere knew sexuality

was one of the things

that could be most easily

weaponized by the right,

with the deadliest

possible consequences.

Yes, Jesus loves me

KAY: In 1977, Anita Bryant

surfaces in

Dade County, Florida.

MAN 4: With a religious fervor

that has made her America's

most controversial

woman overnight,

her group is crusading

to repeal a new Dade County Law

which protects h*m*

in jobs and housing.

For the first time,

I know the Christian community

have never been involved in any

political controversial issue,

and they're not only involved,

but they're committed.

KAY: There starts to be

a solidification

of a right-wing movement

toward real political power.

Billy Graham, Pat Robertson,

Jim Dobson's

Focus on the Family,

Jerry Falwell

and his Moral Majority.

Almost always you're going

to find an argument

about the corruption

of innocent children

at the heart of

any kind of culture w*r.

I like all those badges

you got there.

h*m* cannot

reproduce biologically,

but they have to reproduce

by recruiting our children.

KAY: Shere paid for

Mary Calderone and me

to go to Dade County

and spend time

working in the campaign

to defeat Anita Bryant.

MAN 5: The campaign

has been vicious,

with television commercials,

the Save Our Children Group

is appealing

to parental anxieties.

MAN 6: When they take

to the streets,

it's a parade of h*m*,

men hugging other men,

cavorting with little boys.

The country is really,

at this moment,

looking to Dade County

to save us

from a wave of reaction

and viciousness and bigotry.

MAN 7: One gay spokesman

had his car fire bombed

after doing

a television interview.

In Florida's Dade County

referendum,

those advocating job and housing

rights for h*m*

lost badly,

by more than two to one.

The campaign led by

Anita Bryant was the winner.

The w*r goes on

to save our children,

because the seed

of sexual sickness

that germinated in Dade County

has already been transplanted

by misguided liberals in

the U.S. Congress.

KAY: Shere was just right there.

There was no question

of her understanding

of the politics

of anti-gay movements

and how this was building

and what this constituted.

If we're going to undefine,

not redefine, but undefine,

how we relate to each other,

so that each individual can

decide how to share their body

with another person,

then I think we have

to imagine people

will love people

of the same sex, also.

KAY: She cared passionately

about a better world

for everyone, without labels,

without repression.

It's hard to express just

how revolutionary

I think that was at the time.

MAN 8: There are

consciousness-raising groups

all over the country exploring

how women feel about themselves,

their sexuality,

their role in society.

But so far we've heard

very little from men

on these subjects.

GRIFFIN: Here at last is the

long-awaited companion volume

to Shere Hite's blockbuster

bestseller on female sexuality.

Welcome, Shere Hite.

[ Applause ]

"The Hite Report on Male

Sexuality" continues to carry on

in the author's

controversial tradition.

Here is Shere Hite.

Why are people so fascinated

with all this?

Well, you know, there are

many books on sex

that don't sell at all.

So the idea that people

are fascinated with sex,

per se, may not be correct.

My area was a little different.

I'm really trying to draw

a picture,

a larger picture of the society

and how people are feeling

within that society.

The women's movement,

how has it affected

the male's sexual response?

Um, I think that the women's

movement can only help men,

because men complained

over and over in my study,

and that's certainly not

the first time they complained,

that they felt a lot

of pressures on them to perform.

They had to get an erection.

You have to have intercourse

long enough

for the woman to have an orgasm.

My study showed,

in the first book,

that most women can orgasm

easily from clitoral stimulation

and not from intercourse

so much.

I know a lot of women,

though, that, that...

Well, never mind, go ahead.

DOUGLAS: No, go ahead.

No, no, go ahead.

I don't mean to interrupt.

David, please finish

the statement.

You don't want to leave

the audience hanging.

"I know a lot of women that..."

We'll pick it up there.

That don't...

God, how do you

talk about this stuff?

- Don't have orgasms.

- That don't... that don't...

- The usual way.

- Yeah.

- Right.

- Yeah.

That have orga...

That if you're going to...

[ Laughs ]

They... They are embarrassed

by clitoral stimulation, also.

You know what I'm saying?

MARTIN: Shere didn't smoke

when we were together.

She was a bad girl when

she wanted to be a bad girl.

[ Laughs ]

I'm Bette Davis.

I'm Marlene Dietrich.

She, essentially, smoked

in Mike Douglas' face.

[ Douglas coughs, laughs ]

- Sorry.

- That's a bad habit.

- Yeah, I guess you're right.

- Yeah.

When you're laying

so close to me

BOB: The adjective I would

apply to Shere is "flamboyant."

That's what she wanted to be.

And that's what she came

across as being.

I love to love you, baby

Not scary, not even

nervous making,

but it kept you

with your wits about you.

MAN 9: Sex expert Shere Hite

on her new surprising report

on male sexuality.

BOB: I knew, of course,

that there would be a great deal

of interest in this book,

because the first Hite Report

was such a sensational success.

HELEN: Shere, in your report

on female sexuality,

men were staggered to learn

that clitoral stimulation

was much more important

than penetration.

The world was agog.

Now what did you find out

in male sexuality

that was equally astonishing?

What will women who read

this book find out about men

that they did not know before?

1,100 pages,

7,000 interviews altogether.

MARTIN: I think Shere decided

to do the male book

because we would understand

more about men's issues,

their inability to communicate.

AS SHERE:

Men's book, why so angry?

Too many demands, men don't

feel free to be themselves.

What are the values men

are taught?

Why do men want sex?

How do men feel about women,

us, and themselves?

For me, a crucial thing

in my experience

of working on that book

was when I asked to read

a whole lot of

the filled out questionnaires.

Somewhere between 60 and 100

questionnaires that I read full.

MAN 10: Age 50, occupation,

college professor.

MAN 11: Black,

born and upbrought,

until 11, in a small town.

MAN 12: I work in a mill

for a mining company.

MAN 13: Age 62. English.

Youngest of three children.

MAN 14: I'm 57.

I love my wife and children.

BOB: These guys, not about

their sex lives

or their fantasies

or their frustrations.

But when they started

answering the questions

about their emotional life,

I haven't had many

sadder experiences

as an editor in my life.

AS SHERE: What did your father

tell you about how to be a man?

MAN 15: 25.

I've always been emotional.

I cried very easy as a child,

not from being hurt physically,

but mentally.

My father would sometimes

tell me to shut up,

and I tried, but it was hard.

MAN 16: I never was close

to my father.

We just discussed matters

of minor importance to us

like soccer results

and acts of the government.

He was the hard parent.

And I respected him

and had fear of his anger.

MAN 17: No, I have never

cried myself to sleep.

But I've really felt

unloved and discarded.

MAN 18: I have

felt rejected at times,

but assuming

that I've been misjudged,

I try not to take

the rejection to heart.

After all, I can't be

more alone than I am now.

Over and over again,

they said the same thing.

We have no one to talk to.

We can't share things

with people, even our wives.

MAN 19: I have no warmth

nor closeness in my life.

The only feeling of warmth

that I get

is when I'm through with work

and am free to do what I want.

BOB: We're isolated.

MARTIN: We assumed that, yeah,

our lives were difficult,

we had to work, but we were men,

we had women in our beds,

they were happy.

And then, all of a sudden,

a book comes out and says to us,

we're not happy.

MICHAEL: Welcome to

"Leave It To the Women."

Today's panelists are

actor/male stripper John Gibson,

actor Gil Gerard,

actor/writer Ron Masak,

and myself, Michael Conrad.

Here's our host,

Stephanie Edwards.

Shere Hite has joined us,

and we welcome you, Shere.

The author or the compiler

of the information in

"The Hite Report

on Male Sexuality."

- Welcome.

- Thank you.

The book did well, but not,

I think,

as I thought it might do.

Did you recognize yourself

in this book at all?

I didn't, no,

as a matter of fact,

I would like to get to that.

I didn't recognize myself

into this book,

- or anybody that I know.

- No kidding?

No, but I don't know

the 7,239 men.

- [ Laughter ]

- Did you see yourself at all,

the fellows who say

they feel as though

they must perform?

No, I have to say the majority

of the material

that I went over in the book

that I'm not familiar with.

- STEPHANIE: Really?

- No, I don't agree with a lot

of what she has to say.

BOB: Men weren't ready.

You can see it.

Not only don't they

understand intimacy,

they don't want

to know about it.

We'd like to ask you

before the men pounce

on what they've already heard,

what you found it meant

to be a man in our society,

from those who answered

your questionnaire?

I think it's difficult

for men to criticize

the idea of masculinity

because if a man criticizes

the idea of masculinity, whether

it's a sexual connotation,

or just what kind of

a job you have,

then he runs the risk of having

other men look down on him

and think that, "Well,

he can't make it as a man."

So it's very hard for men

to speak out about that.

GIL: I don't agree

with that at all.

STEPHANIE:

What don't you agree with?

I don't agree with that at all,

that a man

can't speak out about the role

of what makes a man masculine

without other men

coming down on him about it.

I don't agree with that at all.

No, I meant, I meant

he can't criticize...

- GIL: Sure, he can.

- what he's supposed to be.

That's never been my experience

with anyone I've ever known.

MICHAEL: I happen to agree

with Miss Hite in this respect.

When I was a boy, nobody cried.

I remember very clearly

running away from a man,

and I was caught,

I was the slowest.

And I was caught,

and he b*at me up.

And I was crying.

And I walked up to the guys,

and they just looked at me

like I was dirt.

I didn't cry for 25 years

after that.

Now, what I'm concerned

with is what type of person

is going to stay home and answer

170 questions, essay format?

I mean, does that

give us a good...

- STEPHANIE: Representation.

- representation of what

the male sexuality is all about?

I don't believe it does.

JANET: People criticized

her methodology

because they didn't understand

what it was,

and so they could

discount her findings.

72% of the men who were married

said they had had

extramarital affairs within

the first two years of marriage.

Gil has been married,

how many years?

Two years now.

Two years on October 20th.

[ Audience laughing ]

And your wife is about to give

birth, even as we speak.

As we speak, yes.

Any second it can happen, yes.

STEPHANIE: Did you recognize

yourself in here, Gil?

No, I didn't.

I didn't recognize myself nor

most of the people that I know.

I think that there must be

people out there

with these kinds of thoughts.

MICHAEL: But have you read

the book?

I read some of it.

I skipped some. I didn't have

time to read, I guess.

ED: They really weren't

paying attention

to reading the material.

They didn't really understand

the sophistication

of her methodology.

It was referred to continuously

that the 72% of these men...

- GIL: Of married men.

- Well, of married men.

That's not right.

72% of the 7,239 men,

which is only 6% of the 190,000

things she sent out.

If I were doing a typical

sampling of muffins

in market research

on an essay-type distribution

the way I did it,

you would get about 2%

or 3% answering,

and that's considered

valid market research.

So out of maybe 400,000

questionnaires you sent out

to both female and male,

you're saying only 8%

of all of those people responded

from which you have two books

that are being considered

almost like

Kinsey's report

and Masters and Johnson,

an authority.

Masters and Johnson had

a total of 700 people.

Kinsey had a total of 11,000.

But all we can do is try

and match it

to the population demographics.

MARTIN: She received

a tremendous amount of criticism

because they said

this is not a scientific study.

In the press, it's often said

that my work is,

quote, "unscientific," unquote,

which drives me crazy

because what they mean is,

is it representative?

"Scientific"

can mean many things.

There has never been a perfect

sample in sex research,

and there won't be for some time

because if you were going

to do a random sample,

most people wouldn't answer

because they wouldn't

be anonymous

and their names would be known.

So of course,

they wouldn't answer.

I don't know anything

about methodology.

She got what she could

get out of it.

And it was effective.

And I think useful.

SHERE: I just had to get back,

excuse me,

to this word "measure,"

because that's, pardon me,

a very male word.

And it's not a word

I would ever use.

And I don't wish to measure men.

What I'm trying to do

is provide a forum

in which men can see

how many other men feel.

"Measure" is a very male word?

SHERE: Perhaps not all men,

but it's a forum

in which men can talk.

And they can talk to each other,

and they can talk

to other women.

But I'm not trying to say

that you should be this way

or you should be that way,

and, if you're not, there's

something wrong with you.

That's the very antithesis

of what I'm doing.

MARTIN: They just were vehement,

and they wrote incredibly

nasty letters to Shere,

and she got phone calls.

She didn't understand why

this book

was the object of scorn

and hatred.

AS SHERE:

I felt naked, scrutinized.

So many inaccurate things

and strange things

were being said

about me in the press.

As a model, I had always made it

a point of honor

to use my own full name.

It was discovered that I had

been featured in the nude

in Playboy

several years earlier.

Photographed for Playboy

meant immediate disrespect

and disregard for my work.

I couldn't be a good researcher

because I was "just a bimbo

who had posed nude."

SHERE:

Did you have another comment?

REPORTER: Oh, no.

I just had one other question.

I remember some years ago

there was a profile done on you.

And I think it was

Playboy magazine.

- And they had some...

- A profile?

Well...

[ Laughter ]

Hate to hear

about this whole thing.

[ Applause ]

It was some... there were

some semi-nude photographs.

- Ah.

- And I was just wondering...

MARTIN: It's not that

she didn't expect it.

I think she didn't expect it

to persist the way it did.

I think she thought eventually

this will just blow over

and they'll move on

to the next target.

But she stayed a target

for a long time.

REPORTER: I was just wondering

what were those frilly

green things

that you were wearing?

[ Men laughing ]

The frilly green things?

I guess you had to be there

just to know, you know?

- I guess so.

- I guess so.

Well, did you have

another question about that?

REPORTER: No, that's it.

AS SHERE: Plan for not being

a stereotyped creation

of your society.

Number one,

spend three days alone.

[ Choir music plays ]

Number two,

take yourself seriously.

[ Opera music playing ]

Number three,

whenever caught in a situation

where you are made to feel

girlish and helpless,

bitchy and aggressive,

or any other stereotype,

leave immediately

and do any action

which you enjoy and is yours.

[ Opera music continues ]

Number four, rely on your own

financial resources

at all times.

KAY: Shere had to sue Macmillan

to get her full earnings.

They had put a limit

on the amount of income

she could get per year.

AS SHERE: It's a tax-free,

interest-free, eternal loan.

Here I am, me, propping up

this stupid company.

MARTIN: There was a settlement,

and she was given a payout.

MIKE: All of a sudden,

she had $250,000,

so she wanted to buy a place.

And she was so excited.

[ Soulful music playing ]

AS SHERE: I bought an apartment.

GENE: I was the first tenant,

what used to be the Heart Fund

building on Fifth Avenue

and 64th Street.

As I was passing through

the lobby and her door was open,

I don't remember if I said,

"Shere Hite,"

or if she said, "Gene."

What do you do?

I stick my tongue out.

What do you do?

I'm writing a book.

She invited me in to say,

"Hey, come on in.

Let me show you where I live."

Shere wound up taking the first

unit on the first floor facing

Fifth Avenue.

It could have been

a small palazzo in Europe

with beautiful vases and

art pieces all over the place.

Very ornate.

JANET: Both of us had a love

of the decorative arts,

surrounding ourselves

with beautiful things.

It gave us relief

from the heavy workloads

that we both had.

AS SHERE:

I needed beauty around me

to forget painful images

seen in the press.

Number five,

enjoy yourself a lot.

I had lots of parties.

[ Upbeat music playing ]

So, you couldn't come

to my Valentine's party?

No, I would've loved to...

JANET: She just invited

a whole range of people.

I remember women from Coyote,

which was a prostitutes'

rights organization.

MARTIN: Flo Kennedy.

Swifty Lazar.

I was there,

with my new wife, Sybil.

ED: Julien, the night doorman.

JANET: There were people

of all different walks of life.

[ Woman singing in French ]

GENE: Sometimes I'd come in

late from the studio or on tour,

and the door would be open.

We palled around.

Donna Summer is downstairs.

"Oh, Donna, what are you

doing here?"

"I just moved in here."

"Oh, really? I'm up on top.

"Hey, come on over."

She was curious about

this rock star thing

and the sexuality there.

"What you do?

And why do you do it?"

Shere was inquisitive.

Most people when they ask

you questions,

don't follow it up with, why?

And it makes you sort of...

"Yeah, why?"

KAY: She chose that part

of New York,

the creative side

and the movement side.

[ Woman singing in French ]

Happy birthday to me,

happy birthday to me

MAN: And so on her birthday,

heavily attended by New York's

radical chic crowd...

Did you see what Shere gave me?

Isn't it fabulous?

I can't get over it.

It's so beautiful.

MAN: Flo trots out her

defense of prostitutes

with a little ditty.

Everybody needs a hooker

once in a while

GENE: Shere was

forward thinking.

It helps, I believe, to come

from a small town

and then see a difference.

New York, you've got room

to breathe

and you can weave and dodge,

and there's a lot

of other people in the way.

You have a better chance

of developing your own soul

and becoming whoever you want.

JAMES: I was working

at the Village Voice.

We met 'cause

I photographed her.

I loved her style.

I loved the way she dressed.

I could also tell

that she loved working.

And so, I think I was

kind of standing back.

I was showing the way

she worked more than

I was showing her personality.

It was as if I couldn't

quite get near her.

And then I saw a picture of her

as a child, and I said,

"Can I take a picture

of this picture?"

She looks like she's about

6 or 7,

but she looks extremely

self-possessed.

And I thought, this child

looked very lonely.

And as I got to know her,

I found out

that the child was lonely.

I grew up in a very small town

and was very much

of a churchgoer.

I grew up with my grandparents,

so it was

an even older generation

than normally would have been.

There was no discussion of sex

or menstruation

or anything like that.

Just a discussion that you had

to get married

and men married nice girls,

and you should always do

what you should.

She was reluctant to talk

about it,

and I had to ask her about it,

and she was still reluctant

to talk about it.

AS SHERE: Mother and father.

I was a mistake.

He left after a year or so.

She was just out of high school.

I was a hindrance and made her

too old,

a nuisance and in the way.

Worthless.

A piece of garbage.

Then she left.

How would you define love?

Is it the thing you work at

for a long period of time?

Or is it the strong feeling

you feel for someone,

right from the beginning,

for no known reason?

Does the relationship fill

your deepest

needs for closeness

with another person?

Or do you prefer not to share

every part of yourself?

JAMES: She could come off

as being a bit cold.

One reason I liked

photographing her

was that I was sort of

breaking the image.

Obviously, image was

very important to her.

I was hoping to make her

feel comfortable in her skin.

But she carried the weight

of the criticism all the time.

I wanted her to be

happier than she was.

MIKE: Shere had clearly

invented Shere Hite.

BOB: A lot of people simply

couldn't take her seriously

because of the way

she presented herself,

but presenting herself

that way was who she was.

That was really important to her

to be the Playboy girl

while working for a PhD.

She needed to see herself

that way.

We all need to see ourselves

in certain ways.

But partly because of her

flamboyance, people noticed.

She wanted to be seen.

[ Mid-tempo piano music

playing ]

PRESENTER: New York,

summer 1988,

Horicke and Hite in their

apartment on Fifth Avenue.

Three years ago,

the German-born concert pianist

and the best-selling writer

were married.

Shere Hite's books

have sold five million copies.

They've been translated

into 14 languages

and banned in eight countries.

PRESENTER 2: Hite's latest book,

"Women and Love,"

caused a flurry of news stories

weeks before the book

even hits the stores.

REPORTER:

You may have read about it,

and perhaps

even argued about it.

And even though today is

its official publication date,

it has already been widely

endorsed and widely criticized.

NICHOLAS: The press conference

was on the day

that the book went on sale.

It was a packed house.

I thought, "Wow,

this is really terrific.

All these people want

to hear Shere."

And then I heard some of

the people say,

"Well, they want to see

what she's gonna do.

She's difficult,

and she's just weird."

[ Applause ]

Good morning.

Thank you for coming.

Doing this study, I realized

that when women talk about love,

it's much more

than talking about love.

You know, love has been

trivialized for so long

and how women feel about love

has been trivialized.

It isn't trivial.

WOMAN: Number 19.

How would you define love?

WOMAN 2: Oh, gracious, Shere.

[ Laughs ]

WOMAN 3: It was

an excellent feeling,

and then again, it was

a very anxious feeling,

a vulnerable feeling.

My heart could be broken

at any time.

WOMAN 4: I don't even know if

I'm capable of it at this point.

I've just had so many

bad relationships.

I don't think they've had

anything to do with love.

WOMAN 5: I'm in love

with my children.

I don't think I'm in love

with my husband.

WOMAN 6: I could never

really communicate with him.

I could never really share

with him.

WOMAN 7: My lover hit me

because I pulled the covers

off of him at night.

If I didn't fill up the ice

cube trays all the way up,

he would scream at me.

WOMAN 8: I have had

an extramarital affair.

I was looking for re-affirmation

of myself as a woman.

WOMAN 9: I had sex outside

of my marriage,

wanting to test my real capacity

for love.

SHERE: The great majority

of women are saying

that they're frustrated

and dissatisfied

with their relationships

with men emotionally.

They want things

to be different.

And they've been trying and

trying to get that to happen,

but aren't having a whole lot

of success with it.

WOMAN 10: The most

startling statistic,

Hite says 70% of women

married more than five years

say they are having

extramarital affairs.

KARLA:

When "Women and Love" came out,

I remember being called

into my boss's office.

He knew that I knew Shere.

He said, "Have you seen

this book?"

I said, "Yes."

He said, "Have you read it?"

I said, "Yes."

He said, "This book

is preposterous."

I said, "Well, Shere wrote

a book about men,

and men were unfaithful

to their wives

in the first five years,

and no one was shocked

by that statistic.

Who do you think

they were sleeping with?"

His jaw fell because

her implications

made him have to think

about his marriage now.

MAN: The wedding day, promises

of a long and faithful life

together from the happy couple.

But according to a book about

to be published in America,

it's a dream

that rarely comes true.

A new survey of American woman

has come up

with some troubling results.

MAN: Shere Hite says

that only 13% of women

married more than two years

are in love with their husbands.

To find out

that this was a two-way street

was just too much

for many of them to handle.

I call "The Hite Report"

the Hate Report

because it really is filled

with a lot of hate toward men.

It's some interesting gossipy

stuff about people's lives,

but a study it ain't.

I believe her questionnaire

is as biased

as any questionnaire can be.

When you have pages and pages

and pages of statistics,

no matter what you say

in the body of it,

it acts as if it's science

and it's not science.

It is a scientific sample

and a scientific study.

KARLA: Where she stuck her

neck out is to say that

her research is scientific.

For Shere, this mattered.

MAN: The reporter,

David Streitfeld,

interviewed quite

a lot of people

about Shere Hite and her book.

One professor put it this way.

"Hite does not report

how many people answered

each of her questions.

So, I can't tell whether she

means 70% of 1,000 women

or 70% of 10 women, so

the statistic is meaningless."

The ABC News/Washington Post

poll decided to conduct

a scientific telephone survey

of 1,500 men and women

over age 18

in a nationwide random sample.

The idea was to determine

if the trends

Hite found could be confirmed.

They were not.

We presented Shere Hite

with our findings

during an interview.

After looking over

the statistics,

she had this reaction

to the numbers on infidelity.

You call me on the phone,

you think I'm gonna tell you?

You've got to be joking.

[ Laughs ]

I always thought she fought

too hard with her adversaries.

She may have been better off

just saying to them,

"The work speaks for itself."

This is a creative project,

which develops as it goes.

She was very sensitive

to criticism,

and that was maybe

her Achilles heel.

OPRAH: Today, the author

of this much publicized book

has agreed to face an audience

filled entirely with men,

except for me.

Hi, everybody.

JANET: When she learned

that she was going to be dealing

with an all-male audience,

Shere asked me to come with her

to provide her

some moral support.

I wasn't allowed to be in the

audience, but I was backstage.

What your study does is say

that all the problems,

everything that's wrong with

relationships, is men's fault.

You guys are the guilty ones.

And I'm saying we're all guilty.

It's society as a whole.

This whole idea that somehow

it's an equal problem,

it's not quite so simple.

Look at our body language,

it's very different.

You live in a world in which

power gives you the right

to sit with your legs apart,

and you go like this.

And you're going like this.

Now look at me,

I'm sitting here like this,

because I think

there's a big difference

between men and women.

- MAN: No way.

- Come on.

OPRAH: Yes, sir.

MAN: Yes, you know,

this is the first time

I've ever heard

that being able to sit

with your legs split

is a privilege.

SHERE:

Well, you've now heard it.

You've now heard it.

MAN: Shere's report

is flawed extensively.

Only 5% of the people

that she sent a report to

would even respond to her.

And she only asked women.

Why didn't she ask any men...

- Where's Janet?

- what they thought?

I was able to go in

in between breaks.

I would just keep reinforcing

the fact that

although it would

have been preferable

if they had read the book

and given her positive

feedback on it, they didn't.

OPRAH: Did you see the report

she did on men?

I've only been aware

of this report,

and everything I've heard

about her has been negative.

- Okay...

- She's only looking at one side,

the side that she chooses

to look at.

I think, first of all,

that a lot of people

who criticize the book

haven't even read the book.

And I would like to stop,

for whatever reason,

discussing how flawed

the statistics are,

how many people responded,

because the truth of the matter

is whether 4,000

or 50,000 responded,

nobody can deny

that there's a problem.

That's what we want

to talk about,

is the fact

that there's a problem.

When I've been in relationships,

the women, instead of

communicating and saying there's

something wrong, what they do is

they pout and they don't want to

tell you what the problem is.

And I think that we just need

to communicate more.

SHERE: Well, you have a whole

book of women telling what's

the problem, and men are

reacting like they'd been sh*t,

or they're reacting with

total terror or total outrage.

What I'm complaining about

is the general approach

to this whole program, which

started back with women's lib.

And since then, men have

been m*rder*d

and gotten away with it.

We have had our children

taken away from us,

we've had our homes

taken away from us,

and we've had our jobs

taken away from us.

Let women have 47%

of the labor force,

but I don't want to hear you

complaining about it,

you started the program.

[ Applause ]

You all who are applauding,

you sound angry. You're angry...

JANET: We went to Oprah's

favorite thrift shop afterward

to sort of cleanse ourselves of

the nasty words

that had been thrown around.

[ Saxophone playing ]

ED: I think the years and years

and years of her

working on these projects,

the amount of effort it took,

and then to get this kind of

treatment from so many people,

it just was like someone

stabbed me in the back again

and again and again and again

until she reached the end of it.

Yes, you're very pretty.

You're the prettiest

little thing I ever saw.

NICHOLAS:

Sally Jessy Raphael had a show

that was very popular

at the time.

It was a really big deal

to actually book her show.

The morning that she was

supposed to be doing it,

the limo driver was there

to pick her up,

and she wasn't quite ready yet.

FRANK: I went to pick up

Miss Hite yesterday morning

to take her back

to New Haven for her taping.

MAN: Frank says

he waited and waited.

NICHOLAS:

She kept him waiting for so long

that they said, "Okay, well,

we no longer can do a live show.

We're now going to have

to do a taped."

And then it got so late

that they said,

"Okay, just forget it."

So, I walked across the street

and to tell her that,

"I'm sorry, dear.

I can't take you back with me,

I'm gonna leave alone."

Those were your words,

"I'm sorry, dear?"

- "I'm sorry, dear."

- Right.

And when I said "dear,"

she freaked out.

She went violent on me,

grabbed me by the throat,

and tried to dig her nails

into my windpipe.

The next day she was scheduled

to be interviewed

by Maury Povich on his show,

and it was going to be

a live interview.

SHERE: Will I be able to see it

before we start?

MAN: I don't think so.

We're just kind of

running out of time.

If you want to push

that little piece into your...

I heard you.

How's that?

Does it look okay?

Is my hair crooked?

MAN: Five seconds.

Seriously.

Shere Hite knows what

men think about women

and what women think

about men, in bed and out.

It's been quite a week for you,

I know, steeped in controversy,

particularly about another

ABC/Washington Post poll

that says basically

that much of your findings

are quite different from theirs.

How do you think

this could happen?

The Washington Post/ABC people

called women on the telephone.

I mean, imagine the scenario.

You receive a phone call,

you're standing in the kitchen,

and right next to you is your

husband stirring the lasagna,

and they say to you,

"Are you having

extramarital sex?"

Well, of course not.

So your findings you feel

because of the way you...

- That's one reason.

- Right.

What happened yesterday in

New York with the limo driver?

Did you accost him?

- No.

- You didn't?

No.

I felt like it, but I didn't.

MAURY: You didn't.

We just happen to have

the limousine driver with us.

Frank Nicoletti.

SHERE: Well, if that's

the reason that you've given,

you know, to come

and interview me,

then you've done so

under a false reason,

because I asked what

the interview would be about,

and it seems to me

that by doing this,

you're doing what I'm saying

and what women are saying

in my book that

men generally do.

They don't want to listen

to what the issues are.

But you want to

bring up something else.

And so, therefore, you have now

lied to get this interview.

And so, therefore,

I can't continue

the interview unfortunately.

I would have liked to talked

to women in the audience

about what this book is about.

But if you don't want to listen,

then you're very similar

to many men

- that women describe in my book.

- Oh, I'm similar?

Well, let's find out

what happened yesterday

from the limo driver.

Frank Nicoletti is

with us in New York.

And let's give him

a chance to talk.

Alright, Frank?

Shere, I don't know why you say

you didn't accost me.

I certainly didn't accost you.

You tried to disfigure me.

SHERE: Stop it, you.

FRANK: Just like... same way

you did there, dear.

That's exactly what you did.

SHERE: Following me

across the room.

You don't have the right

to do that.

I have the right to get up

and walk off camera.

MAURY: You sure...

You can do that,

but we'd like to hear the story

of what happened yesterday,

and Mr. Nicoletti is here.

FRANK: I don't know

why she's lying.

SHERE: This is why I asked you

to check on that.

Well...

SHERE: Don't touch me.

No, I don't want to tell

any of them anything.

- WOMAN: Listen, Shere.

- SHERE: No, I'm sorry.

I don't care.

I'm going. I don't care.

You're not going to keep me

physically here.

I'm leaving.

MAN: What was that?

What happened?

MAN 2: Yeah, did you follow her?

MAN 3: Yeah, I tried

until she grabbed me.

MAN 2: She grabbed you?

MAN 3: Yeah, she grabbed

the whole camera.

MAN 2: Trying to help women.

[ Men laughing ]

By the next day, it was...

The whole campaign

was starting to unravel.

MAN: On "A Current Affair,"

this happened.

Stop it, you.

No more nice guy.

Things were played and played

and played

and played and played.

PRESENTER: Here's what

happened on New York television.

SHERE: What are you,

following me across the room?

Shere Hite,

the best-selling author,

has made millions dishing

out criticism of men,

but when it comes to accepting

any criticism herself,

as we'll see,

that's quite a different story.

Fort Worth, Texas. Hello.

MAN: Hello, Miss Hite.

I've read all of your books.

And my biggest criticism that

I have of you is the fact

that you seem to have

the attitude that just because

women disapprove

of something that a man does...

KAY: I watched the Larry King

interview with her,

and I was just shocked.

Her eyes looked

kind of dead to me.

Even if she was angry

about something,

there was always

a spark of real life.

It felt like the Shere I knew,

the life was draining

out of her.

I thought, "Oh, my God,

I really have no idea

the toll this has taken."

Why is Shere Hite so sensitive

about criticism?

You know you're doing exactly

what, you're doing exactly...

- May I finish my question?

- No.

And, in fact, I think that

you're gonna keep on like this

during the entire thing.

And you know what you're doing?

Excuse me?

I don't care to have

this part filmed.

You know what you're doing?

Exactly what the men

in the book do.

Then you're gonna say you've

been accused of man bashing.

- What you got to...

- You've been accused...

Turn that [bleep] thing off.

You've been accused

of man bashing.

Yeah, and it's gonna happen

right here.

So, do you want to do

a decent interview,

or do you want to leave?

I will do the interview

that I want to do.

SHERE: Well then, go home

and go back...

PRESENTER: And that's how we

parted company with Shere Hite.

You know, all publicity

is good publicity.

That's my job.

Um, in this case, you know,

I think that was the exception

to the rule.

Maybe this wasn't

such great publicity.

And it certainly stopped

pretty much anyone

at Knopf working on the book

any longer.

MARTIN: Watching Shere's

reputation in the States decline

was really painful.

Over the course of getting

to know her friends in L.A.

or here, and my story with her

would become known.

And people would have

changing responses.

Initially, people would think,

"Wow, you knew her?"

And then as she lost

that kind of luster,

people would look at me as if,

"What was with you?"

I came back to New York

on a visit,

and I was walking with my wife,

and we were walking by

her apartment on Fifth Avenue,

and I said,

"We have to stop by."

We went to the doorman,

and I said,

"Could you please buzz

Shere's apartment?"

He said, "She doesn't

live here anymore."

He said, "Over the course

of a couple of nights,

she just disappeared,

and she was gone."

REPORTER: Good morning.

The public ordeals

of Clarence Thomas are over.

He survived his final

Senate test by the closest

winning margin in the history

of Supreme Court nominees.

Literally and judicially,

he's now set for life.

WOMAN: Leaders of the

women's movement in this country

had big questions

about Clarence Thomas

almost from the day

he was nominated.

Was he too conservative?

Would he vote to overturn

Roe v. Wade?

Then came the charges

of sexual harassment.

He spoke about acts that he had

seen in p*rn films

involving such matters as women

having sex with animals,

and films showing group sex

or r*pe scenes.

WOMAN: According

to all the polls,

American women

weren't listening.

They supported Thomas.

Is feminism dead?

WOMAN: I think that there is

a certain backlash

in the culture

at large that's internalized

by some of our students.

They don't like to use

the F-word.

I kind of have a negative idea

of feminism.

It's too radical.

I don't think it's

really done much.

I think it's sort of

faded away with time.

SUSAN: In the last decade,

we've seen a powerful

and often unrecognized backlash

that's taken many

different forms.

He said that if I ever told

anyone of his behavior

that it would ruin his career.

What we saw and what I saw

as an African-American woman

was, if you come forward,

you will be called a liar,

an erotomaniac

and mentally disturbed.

What do you get?

You get humiliated.

You get your character

assassinated.

Big winner is obviously

Clarence Thomas.

Losers, perhaps,

the Women's Movement?

Perhaps.

And, in fact, in this half hour,

we're going to talk about

the White House strategy,

what George Bush may do...

[ Crowd cheering ]

This, my friends,

this is radical feminism.

The agenda that Clinton and

Clinton would impose on America.

It's not the kind of change

we can abide in a nation

we still call God's country.

[ Audience cheering ]

[ Soulful piano music playing ]

JOANNA: I met her at the launch

for Women and Love in London.

I went along as a journalist

and interviewed her.

So, we started talking.

She'd had such bad experiences

in the States

that she was always nervous.

She just kept herself

really very private.

REPORTER: You live

in Europe now.

Where's your home?

Well, it's hard to say

that I have a fixed address.

- You move around a lot?

- Yes, I do.

What are the cities you live in?

Well, London is

my publishing base,

and I spend a lot

of time in Germany,

because of my husband,

of course, is German.

And we spend a lot of time

in Paris, too.

A lot of people say you've kind

of become a self-imposed exile,

that you've left

the United States in protest.

My books are very well received

in many countries

besides the United States.

And there was so much hysteria

over my last report

in the United States that,

I don't know, I just didn't

feel a need to come back.

JOANNA: She started living some

of the time in my flat

in London, because before that,

she'd go between the Hilton

and this, actually,

it was a squat.

It was a squat

in a council flat.

Literally on a futon

on the floor in a tiny room.

AS SHERE: "Dear Sonny,

I'm having

a terrible cash flow problem.

There were no bids

for the paperback rights

to 'Women and Love.'

No offers of interest

in publishing

any future books of mine.

I had to sell my apartment

to pay off the research debts."

JOANNA: I got a sense that the

press interest was dwindling.

And, you know, she wanted

to get her message across.

She wanted press,

but she wanted to control it,

which is the old conundrum.

It's what everyone wants and is

almost impossible to achieve.

- Okay, ready?

- SHERE: Yeah, let's go.

REPORTER: Okay.

So, you gave a speech here

at this bookstore?

SHERE: Yes, I did.

It was about fundamentalism

and how it affects women.

- And how long ago was that?

- About a year ago.

You have your whole

book display in here now?

SHERE: I guess so.

REPORTER: You have three

new books out right now.

SHERE: Yes.

REPORTER: Now the novel is

all about you, is it not?

Well, the main character

is a dog,

and the second main character

is somebody who's sort of

like me, who asks a lot of

questions, about a woman

who asked too many questions,

and all the trouble

that gets her into.

REPORTER: Now this book,

the book on the family,

the nuclear family, it's not

available in the U.S. right now.

- SHERE: No.

- Why not?

I wish I knew

the answer to that.

You're gonna have to ask

the publisher that.

I'm starting to stutter.

Are you concerned ever that

it seems to be your personality,

your appearance,

your lifestyle that gets

in the way

of the messages in your book?

Yes, maybe I should

write anonymously.

INTERVIEWER: Hold on

half a second.

How do you feel about the fact

that I'm telling you that

Shere Hite doesn't have a

publisher for her latest report?

Doesn't make any sense.

Shere Hite's books have sold

like hotcakes

over and over, book after book.

She's made a great deal of money

for her publishers,

and she's very well known.

How can you shut somebody

like this up?

It's outrageous.

I can really understand

why she would choose

not to live here even.

She told me the last time

I talked to her

she can't make a living

in this country.

And if she can't publish

in this country

and she's a writer, then

she can't make a living here.

And so she's being censored.

Not only just criticized

and censured,

she's being censored,

too, silenced.

Are you saying things people

don't want to hear or just

things that people

don't agree with?

I think one reason my work

is controversial

because I usually connect it

to politics.

This kind of atmosphere of

v*olence against what was known

as feminism

gave the feeling of right

to those who would have

bombed abortion clinics,

also to those who were

leaving messages on my machines,

standing outside of my house,

showing my address

on television.

I mean, it even makes me nervous

to talk to you.

I mean, and I'm not sitting in

the United States right now,

but it still makes me nervous

to talk to you.

IRIS: I was a young photographer

coming to Paris,

and I was called from a German

magazine to do her portrait.

I thought she was just

stunning and beautiful.

But I could see that she was

kind of checking me out.

This is the first session

I did with her.

And when you look at it,

you can see in her eyes,

she doesn't know

if she can trust me.

When she saw the first pictures,

and she liked herself,

I think that's when

she started to trust me.

[ Soulful music playing ]

She was swimming

in the fountain,

which is normally not allowed.

But she just followed her

feeling, and I followed her.

We started to do more

and more pictures.

AS SHERE: Iris and I developed

a truly close friendship.

Just like a fan, some,

more movement like this.

AS SHERE:

It was a dialogue between us.

IRIS: She liked how I saw her.

There was an understanding

from my soul to your soul,

two women working together

and trusting each other,

helping each other also

to be not afraid.

We did things normally

you're not allowed to do,

but we just did it,

and nobody stopped us.

[ Soulful music playing ]

[ Camera shutter clicks ]

AS SHERE: I am on a journey.

As I was traveling,

suddenly the landscapes I saw

seemed to coincide with

some interior landscape

I had been seeking.

I have a strong memory

of my bedroom

at my grandmother's house.

So simple as to be austere,

but it had a special atmosphere.

I would lie in bed listening

to the sounds of the trains

passing by in the distance

or the last bird singing.

One of those evenings,

a strange desire began

to creep over me,

a deep craving.

I learned that the sensations

could be increased

by moving my legs around with

my body pressed against the bed.

One day, doing this, I felt

a wonderful expl*si*n

deep inside my body.

The pleasure was like

an electric shock.

I wanted to do it over and over,

and I did, again and again.

But soon I worried, had I broken

something inside my body?

No one had ever told me

anything about their having

such an experience.

Maybe it was unnatural.

So that's where we were thinking

about ecstasy, joy,

pleasure for women.

[ Speaking French ] How can you

show a female body

with power, spiritualism,

beauty, and eroticism?

[ Speaking English ]

In the visual representation

of the woman, we were thinking

that it is missing something.

You never see an intelligent

portrait of a woman,

an intelligent face,

and at the same time a vulva.

An icon of woman complete

means with sexuality.

[ Soulful music playing ]

AS SHERE: Taking photos

and having sexual discussions

with Iris was a further way

of getting permission

to have a sexual body,

this time from the female world.

Women reclaiming themselves

from the culture.

[ Speaking French ] I am

the founder of a magazine

called Gaze, which is a magazine

that explores the female gaze.

[ Speaking French ] Early in

my career as a journalist,

I discovered Shere Hite

a very unknown icon in Europe

and France.

I quickly understood that

the history of female sexuality

was very much a story that

repeated itself.

Since the first anatomical

diagrams of the clitoris,

which date from

the 17th century to today,

it's a story of the successive

erasure of knowledge.

[ Speaking English ]

PHYLLIS: When I mentioned that

I'm doing this interview about

Shere to a group of

young radical feminists,

they said,

"Well, who is she?"

I said, "You've got

to be kidding me."

She was in the media

all the time,

and, you know, you couldn't help

but know about her work,

but who's talking about it now?

We're gonna have to bleep

the word "vag*na."

[ Laughter ]

But not penis?

Please, please,

let's stay clinical.

Let's use hoo-ha.

[ Laughter ]

You know, I thought

you would be a first

on television with a man

talking about the clitoris.

I can't do that.

[ Laughter ]

- Come on, yes, you can.

- COLBERT: I can't do that. No.

REGINA: There's a disappearance

of feminist knowledge,

systematically,

century after century,

decade after decade.

WOMAN: Newsweek says

"The Hite Report"

is the 30th-best-selling

book of all time.

Really? How wonderful.

It's the 30th-best-selling book

of all time?

I can't believe it.

That's quite extraordinary.

But I would be surprised

if many young women knew of it.

I don't hear people

talking about it anymore.

SHERE: This is a drawing made

by a woman

of a woman's anatomy

seen from the side.

At that time, no drawings other

than of the reproductive system,

the uterus and so on,

were available.

Male ownership of

women's sexuality

is what makes

patriarchy possible.

As women, we deserve the right

to own our own bodies.

I just find it troublesome

that perhaps younger women

coming along

will have to fight

the same battles over again.

JANET: But I see that just

since I've been answering

these questions, that the most

important thing to me now

is freedom.

WOMAN: Feminine,

how do I define it?

I define it as I can be anything

from Cleopatra to Bette Davis.

Feminine is being anything

I want to be.

WOMAN 2: That's the end.

It's been enlightening for me

to answer the questions

and tell you all my secrets.

Now I have to go

and feed my daughter.

Good luck.

Girl: Mommy