01x09 - The Making of Moon Knight

[bunniefuu]

I know that you're having

a great deal of difficulty

being able to differentiate

between what's real

and what's in your head.

With our Disney Plus series,

we wanted to see more of the characters

we'd introduced on the big screen,

but there were also characters

who we wanted to

introduce whole cloth for the first time

on Disney Plus.

Moon Knight was at the top of that list.

Moon Knight is a spectacular character,

he's got an incredibly unique visual look.

He's a much more action-oriented character

in a way we haven't seen in a while

in the MCU.

Any time we think about

adapting a comic book character,

we always think about

what it is at its core,

what it is on an essential level.

And you can't really make

a Moon Knight show

without embracing that darkness,

without embracing that chaos.

In the Marvel universe,

Moon Knight first made his appearance

in 1975 in Werewolf By Night,

and he was very much an antagonist.

By the time 1980 rolled around,

there was such a desire from the fans

to see more of him, he got his own comic.

Historically, Marc Spector is Moon Knight.

He washed out of the Marines

and became a mercenary

and then he became the avatar

of the Egyptian God Khonshu.

If you look at his origin story

in the comics,

it's very Egyptology-centric

and that's what makes this

different and unique.

Kevin brought that up

really early on

in the development process.

He said, "If we can bring that

into our show,

"wrapped in a little bit of

an Indiana Jones-esque adventure,

"that's a show

that will sustain six hours."

- I just go at it fully?

- Yeah, go in the camera.

Like, it goes

It's gotta give me the effect of

- Okay.

- He's getting the vibes.

Mohamed Diab

is an Egyptian filmmaker.

So collaborative, so confident,

who came in and really had a point of view

with the story.

I wanna show you the last thing.

This is my daughter's art.

And look at this. It's Moon Knight.

Aw, yay! Oh, right on.

I read the first two episodes

and the summary of the rest of the show.

We just, like, delved into it,

me and Sarah.

Sarah is my wife

and a producer on the show.

And we had this 200-page pitch.

He came up with a pitch

that really centered on

the Egyptology of it all,

and that was something Kevin was

focusing on from day one,

is the Egyptology, the adventure of it.

It was in

that original pitch meeting

where we all knew that he was gonna be

the best shepherd for Moon Knight,

and you can see it.

You can see it as you

watch the show

There's so much visual foreshadowing.

There's just so much detail

in his thinking

that it really sent a current, I think,

out throughout

the cast and the crew and everyone

who touched the show to think in that way.

As much as you can,

when you're doing this

I wasn't aware of Moon Knight before that.

Sometimes that works

as an advantage or a disadvantage.

For my case,

I feel it worked as an advantage.

I wasn't attached to anything except

to make a good story.

One thing we realized

very early on is when you have

six hours of narrative,

when you have four or five countries,

it was gonna take a bit more

of a team effort.

Let's do it again, but drop it

Having Benson and Moorhead

along with Mohamed Diab

as our head director really paid off.

- Hey, guys. I'm sorry.

- Your XLR kit fell off.

- Sorry. Missed you guys.

- Missed you, too.

Yeah.

Our first introduction

to you was your movie Clash.

And Aaron and I watched that movie

and we both took a long pause

and said, "I guess

we're not filmmakers"

- "if he's a filmmaker."

Yeah.

I loved your films.

I know it's like a ping-pong right now,

I have to say the same thing.

But I loved The Endless

and I loved it before I met you,

and I thought,

"Wow, those guys have something."

So, when we got the chance to work

together, that was a big thing for me.

When we were kicking this off

in the writer's room,

one thing that became evident

really quickly was

Moon Knight does not have any current

connections to the MCU.

And narratively, it became really freeing

and allowed us to really play

with a character

that didn't have to abide by

any pre-ordained narrative rules.

The thing that's always been incredible

to me as a fan of Moon Knight,

is that every creator kind of comes in

and puts their own spin on the material.

We were able to kind of cherry pick all of

our favorite things from the various runs.

But it's also a daunting task because

how do you distill 40 years of weirdness,

into a six-hour show

and have it still make sense?

Having this huge history of

40 years of comic books,

you have so much to dig from.

And the best thing about Marvel,

they allow us to get maybe

the origin of a character

- and play with it the way you want.

- Yes.

For us, it was about the story.

Like, no one ever told us,

"Okay, there's something in the comic book

"that we need to put

because it's in the comic book."

We would go through every

Moon Knight comic that ever existed

and just trying to find particularly

iconic imagery that we connected with.

Usually, it was the more mind-bending

stuff like

the image of pulling the white off

and seeing the flesh underneath

on a white back Those types of images.

When Moon Knight

was first written,

Marc Spector was basically just a guy

who had different identities.

Marc Spector was a mercenary, Steven Grant

was kind of the millionaire about town

and then there was Jake Lockley,

the cab driver.

And depending on what information

Marc Spector needed at that time

as Moon Knight,

he went in different identities.

Over the years, the different identities

morphed into different personalities

and those different personalities

morphed into what we know now

as dissociative identity disorder.

I feel like comic creators started

taking really interesting risks

with the character of Moon Knight,

and that's where you started to see

things like his struggles with DID

And his mental health

really kind of came to the forefront.

And it took this character who was really

introduced as just sort of,

"Hey, he's a guy, he dresses up in white,

fights werewolves.

"What else do you need to know?"

It really gave him some complexity

and really made him a character

that was fascinating.

Moon Knight is a character that

for years in the comics

has struggled with mental illness.

The opportunity to tap into somebody

that faces those challenges

in a respectful way

was very important to us.

Because of all of those different

elements, you need a spectacular actor.

All right, guten tag.

We'd talked to Oscar

a number of times.

We knew he was interested in our world,

we'd never found the right fit.

And we weren't sure

he would be interested in Moon Knight,

we weren't sure he'd be interested

in doing a show on Disney Plus.

But he was completely into it

and he's been such a creative collaborator

and creative partner.

When I was approached by Kevin Feige

with Moon Knight,

I had never heard of it.

I collected comics

when I was younger, you know,

X-Men and, uh,

X-Force and a few others.

And so, the first thing

was to kinda do a deep dive

on the character and its history.

Going back through the comics,

it's shifted and changed so much.

It's so rich. It's pretty vast.

And so our job was to kinda

put a lens on the things

that we found the most interesting,

or that, like,

had the most dramatic juice.

And ultimately, taking the mental health

aspect about it incredibly seriously

and really committing to

what I really wanted to do,

which is a character study,

a point-of-view experience.

DID is dissociative

identity disorder,

which is previously called

multiple personality disorder.

At the end,

it's a fictionalized depiction of DID,

but I think we tried our best in the show

to try and understand it

and delve deeper into it.

The first thing I did

once I did finally sign on

was to delve into DID

and what it's like.

And there's an incredible book

by Robert Oxnam

called A Fractured Mind.

And that ended up

being like my bible to me,

you know, because this is someone

who didn't realize he had DID

until he was in his forties.

He just thought that he was alcoholic

and he had some trouble in his life,

and, you know, lo and behold, suddenly,

he finds out he's got eight different

people living inside of him.

They're eight different alters.

And so, that was astounding.

And the fact that, um,

that in itself is a kind of superpower,

you know.

How incredible human beings are,

that in order to survive

horrible, horrible trauma

at a very young age.

It's a survival mechanism

that kicks into place

where the brain creates other people

within his psyche

to be able to shoulder that trauma.

Everyone who will watch this show

and everyone who worked on this show

will have some sort of relationship

with mental health.

And it was on everyone's mind

the whole time on the show

to make sure that we tell

a story that's thoughtful.

It doesn't have to be about something

as specific. It can actually be,

teach you about just something

we've all experienced,

which is trying to care for and be with

somebody that's struggling.

Let's go. Thank you

Our head writer Jeremy Slater,

one thing he was very passionate about

is really making episodes 101 and 102

Steven's episodes.

I always knew that

starting the show with Marc

was going to be very tough.

Because in our show,

Marc is a very closed-off character.

We would be fighting an uphill battle

for the entirety of the series.

I really looked at Steven Grant and said,

"That's a story I know how to tell."

Once you're onboard with

who Steven Grant is as a character,

you're in for the entire run.

I have to give it to Marvel

and Jeremy Slater.

I think one of the most brilliant things

in the show was the idea of

seeing the world through Steven's eyes.

I loved that.

Starting with a mystery altogether, like,

episode one is a big question mark,

which is, "What's going on?"

- Right?

- Yeah.

And sometimes, there's a temptation

to get through it

so you can see

Moon Knight b*at somebody up.

We don't see that

until the end of episode two.

It takes almost the entire length of

a feature film until you see

- the titular Moon Knight doing anything.

- Absolutely.

And that was really exciting,

when we actually had to play with mystery.

I got sent some early drafts

of a couple of the episodes

and I saw that the story had been

transplanted from New York to London,

but the characters were

still written as American.

But that got me thinking,

"Was there space to create

a character that would be a good foil

"for what you expect

from like a mercenary, tough hero?"

"Mercenary?" No, no. I'm not a mercenary.

My name's Steven Grant.

I thought, "Well, since it's being set

in London, what if Steven's English?"

And then I started coming up with

this character around the house

and doing it for my kids.

And my oldest son just really started

falling in love with Steven.

And he would laugh.

So that made me feel like,

"All right, maybe there's something here.

I'm onto something."

I don't know what this

has to do with Egypt.

They didn't have that

back then, did they? No.

They liked figs and dates.

We're standing

in Steven's apartment.

We decided to do an attic,

because it's recalling

a shape of a pyramid.

Two, one. Camera. Action!

We did his bed under a platform

as if he's in a sarcophagus as well.

As if he's, you know,

a little bit tombed in.

When we first started sh**ting,

the first two months was all Steven.

This process was one of completely

falling in love,

particularly with Steven.

Can you take this downstairs, please?

Will you, please, give me a second,

Donna, with your beetles?

I can't remember the last time that

I just loved being in this character.

So, getting to set, I just wanted to stay

in the accent and stay in character.

So, we get to change in an hour?

- Yeah, yeah, it's in your

- Yeah. All right.

- Same jacket.

- Great.

I wouldn't describe myself

as method at all.

I just didn't want to be shy about it

and I didn't want to be

second-guessing it.

And so, for me

it was more about just, like,

stay in it so that I can just trust

that it's always there

and I can put my energy onto other things,

like playing the scene

and doing the things

and figuring out the blocking

and all that.

Oh, my God.

For me, the tone of the

show is born entirely out of character.

We're learning about the mythology

of Moon Knight and the stakes of the story

through a character

who is as new to it as we are.

Oh, man! This is mental.

The show is a globe-trotting

adventure with a supernatural bent.

There's also

sprinkles of horror in there.

I think the fun thing about Moon Knight

and I think it's the fun thing

that really echoes throughout the MCU,

ultimately, when you do

peel back those layers,

you realize that it is a character story.

And I do think that is one of the things

that Oscar Isaac gravitated towards.

I'm losing it, man.

I've already lost it.

I just

I can't tell the difference between my

My waking life and my dreams, I guess.

Really, the key was Steven,

because Steven is sincere and also funny,

but also 100% sincerely terrified

about what's happening,

that that allows for

a multitude of different reactions

that all still live in the same world.

to blast you out of my head!

Yep.

So, while he can be laughing,

or making kind of a joke,

or terrified, you know, of something

really horrible and monstrous,

at the same time,

you can really be dealing with

actual realistic childhood trauma.

And then at the same time,

a talking hippo is with you.

Because it's already been set up

as this psychological point of view,

I think you're able to go with it.

- Hold the door! Thank you.

- Whoa!

Fight-wise or stunt-wise,

Steven Grant is just a regular guy.

That's the most complicated things to do,

when you have to choreograph a fight

with someone story-wise

who doesn't know how to fight.

I love that because, I think even if you

didn't practice any martial arts,

or you've never been

involved in a fight for real,

you still can have

that instinct to survive.

You still have that instinct

to protect yourself.

Six!

I prefer cricket.

Another idea of Oscar was

to bring a touch of humor.

He could be a little bit goofy sometime,

but sometimes, a fight of being goofy

could save his life.

Jackal. Jackal!

I think Moon Knight costume,

the two characters that we have

are not like anything you saw

in the Marvel universe.

This is something coming from

the imagination of a person

inspired by an old God.

Mr. Knight is what Steven

imagines is cool.

James Bond, something like that, right?

A dapper gentleman that's

a trickster and strong and funny.

Oy, Steven, what the hell are we wearing?

I don't know. She said I needed a suit.

For Mr. Knight,

we have a custom three-piece suit.

We took references from the comic.

We really wanted to make sure

to bring in a little texture

and not have it be flat white.

So when the light hits it,

there's a slight lamé that comes out

to have a little brilliance to the suit.

It has a waistcoat with custom buttons,

the Khonshu symbol.

We adapted a sneaker because I wanted

to give it a modernized look.

Mohamed, our director,

wanted them to have some straps on them

in homage to mummies.

Meghan did such an amazing job.

And yeah, and it just became

this great joke in it,

where he's supposed to do the "suit,"

but doesn't know what that means.

Well, I do look sharp, though.

- All right, where is the scarab?

- Scarab, oh

What's this?

What are these little poles for?

The truncheons are used

both by Moon Knight and by Mr. Knight.

In the original comic,

they had them housed on the lower leg,

but for our purposes, because we wanted

the size to be a little bit bigger,

we just had them just coming from behind

the back underneath the cape,

or from underneath the jacket.

Pretty cool, actually.

Here's an interesting little tidbit.

Originally, Marc had the Mr. Knight outfit

and Steven had the Moon Knight outfit.

And then as Steven became this

very, you know, English bloke,

it's like, "I feel like

Steven's Mr. Knight. Don't we think that?"

And then they were like,

"We were thinking the same thing."

And so, then that got switched.

All right, time out.

That's it, time out!

Guys, let's all calm down, yeah?

We're all worked up.

Let's all just, like, chill the F out

and talk for a second

Take the body.

Take the body, take the body, Marc.

Moon Knight

has such an iconic silhouette

that we knew the ballpark

we wanted to stay in.

Cowl, mask, cape.

And then it came down to

what were the subtle cues we wanted

to play with within the wardrobe itself.

I think it makes

a really, really cool drawing,

and for me that is Moon Knight.

But once you actually

put it on a real person,

you start imagining how

an Egyptian God put SWAT team armor

on somebody, you know?

And it feels a little wrong.

The design of it was a process,

a collaborative process.

Everyone chipped in.

Oscar came in and he had

a couple of great ideas about it.

The costume was a big point of

conversation in those early days.

Ultimately, Ryan Meinerding stepped in

and came up with this concept design,

that as soon as it showed up,

everyone looked at it, and we're like,

"I have not seen that

and that's freaking terrifying."

All over Moon Knight's legs,

there are hieroglyphic inscriptions.

Ancient Egyptian language did not have

the word "knight" in it.

It didn't exist.

So I had to come up with

"The Protecting Soldier of the Moon."

Ancient Egyptian Moon Knight.

We worked with Marvel

and their concept artists

and also, obviously Meghan Kasperlik,

who's the costume designer on the show

to kind of take that concept on

and turn this comic book hero

into something real.

Yeah, the gold is lovely.

But, Kieran, can you move your arms okay?

- All good.

- Intrinsically,

it needs to look like wrapped bandages.

And in reality, that makes this

an extremely difficult garment to make.

'Cause obviously, each individual piece

is an individual piece

that's stitched together

and also still has to fit skintight

on the human body.

So we've had to

find fabrics with the right stretch

and then we've printed

the bandage textures onto them

and obviously dyed those fabrics as well.

We're trying to keep it light and cool so

you don't overheat when you're wearing it

and we're trying to keep it stretchy.

At the same time making sure

that the fabrics and everything in it

are robust enough to take falls

and heavy stunt work.

The Moon Knight costume

and how it formed,

it was a long journey

getting something that

I think everyone was feeling good about.

Just because we have seen

so many different transformations

in so many different movies

and superhero projects,

we tried a lot of different things

but wanted to make sure that

it felt like it was

a magical transformation.

But not something

that was coming from too far away,

we wanted it to feel like it was coming

from close to his person.

All right. Do it.

Take control. For now.

So much of it was

real layering of materials

that made this costume feel more real

in the end.

Even though I know it was a lot of work

for the team that put

the actual costume together

and for Meghan and her team

to actually get it done,

having new material

for us to photograph

and to see how it moved was critical.

You can describe Moon Knight

as being almost Marc's id.

Him in his most unleashed,

his most unfeeling,

his most violent, his most vengeful.

- I think we struggled with Marc.

Mmm-hmm.

We struggled

to find him on the page.

Steven is very easy to digest.

Right away, you fall in love with him

- from the third scene or something.

- Mmm-hmm.

And I was so scared from episode three

that people just don't connect to Marc.

Who is he? He's not as fun,

he's not as sympathetic, he's not.

The first time we ever met Marc on set,

it was like the air came out of the room,

'cause he was in this Not Oscar,

Marc in the scene

was in this horrible mood.

And so, you know, the whole mood

changed from bubbly, fun Steven

to "All right, time to focus, everybody."

At first I was unsure,

and so I said,

"I don't wanna film any Marc things

on the same day as Steven.

Can we figure it out

so we can do 'em on different days,

so I can keep them really distinct?"

Okay, here we go.

Stand by. And action!

I didn't do that.

I am protecting her from Khonshu.

You don't know what you're talking about.

He's got his eyes on her. He wants her

as my replacement. I'm never

You don't know what

you're talking about, Steven.

Just shut up.

And, by the way, Marc isn't

Oscar's regular voice, either.

You know, that's a completely

invented accent.

Listen to me, buddy. Hey, listen to me.

Get away from that bag.

Get away from that bag.

You're gonna get her k*lled.

Giving Marc a bit of a Chicago thing

going on

and then really delving into

the lore of the comics,

and giving him a lower register of voice,

a different way of standing

and finding the physicality

to make them very, very, distinct.

Cut!

I started to find,

as I got more comfortable with

these two different people,

I started to develop the muscle

to be able to transition

between the two easier.

And then, as it went on,

that started to feel like

the real magic trick.

For the timing,

do you want me to say the lines of Steven?

So you know

how long to stay on the reflection for?

Beautiful, yeah.

There's a scene on the cliff,

Marc talks to Steven and then we go back

to Oscar like three, four times.

What the hell's wrong with you, Steven?

Me? You're the one

going on a k*lling spree.

What he did was magical.

I'm just changing the camera

and he's changing as a human being,

from Marc to Steven.

And Marc and Steven are completely

different and it's not easy for Oscar.

I suggest you stop listening

to that stupid pigeon.

Stay out of my way.

By the end, it was really fun

because you could just see,

in just the eyes,

you could see when there was a shift.

You didn't even have to change,

you could see,

"Oh, there's Marc. Marc's here,"

and that was really exciting.

I can look at a still photo of him

and know if he's playing Steven or Marc.

Nothing different.

It's just he holds himself differently.

Immediately.

When we think back on it,

we spent time with

three people in the same body

over that time period of sh**ting.

We all got to know Oscar

and then we all got to know Steven

- and then we all got to know Marc.

- Yeah.

When you have an amazing hero,

when you set the bar that high

with an Oscar Isaac,

you then go, "Okay, what do we do

with the villain?"

The fact that Ethan Hawke

came into the mix,

those are two dream castings.

Very different than

the discoveries that we've made, right?

Those are two very big,

very established stars

that we are very lucky to have

come into our world

and inhabit these characters.

She was betrayed.

- Was she?

- By indolent fellow Gods.

Oh.

By even her own Avatar.

The Avatars, too?

Blue people, right? Love that film.

- By avatar, what I mean

- You mean the anime?

Steven. Stop it. Stop it.

I had seen some of Mohamed Diab's movies

and we were talking about making

a little indie sci-fi movie.

We were, like, about to start

and we got this job and I asked him,

"Can you wait for a year?"

And he said yes.

And it was just like we clicked, and we

felt like we wanna do something together.

I had been watching Good Lord Bird

and it was just, like,

a staggering performance.

As Mohamed and I were talking

about Harrow,

I said, "Hey, man, you know, what about

Ethan? Wouldn't Ethan be great?"

Mohamed said,

"Yes, I love Ethan. I know Ethan.

"I think that'd be so good. That's such

a great idea, we should do that."

I think it was the very next day,

I went down to my coffee shop

and there Ethan was.

And I had seen him around,

but I never had talked to him.

And he's like, "Hey, I heard

you talked to Mohamed the other day."

He goes, "I'm playing the Moon Knight."

And I was like, "I didn't know that."

And he's "You should be the villain.

Mohamed and I talked about it."

It was a very easy yes.

I mean, I never even

thought twice about it.

What's so interesting

about the comics

is they don't have a defining villain.

And that allowed us to try to really,

what aspects of some of the villains

do we want to keep.

What aspects really help the origin story?

You know, what I believe he started out as

was a shady billionaire, sort of.

- Something like that, right?

- Yes, that's how it started.

And then changing him to

essentially a cult leader.

But we talked a lot with Ethan

about how to make that real because,

you know, his zealousness and his belief

is for a world without pain.

And that's, for us, you know, a much more

interesting character than someone

that just has maliciousness at heart,

you know?

The idea in episode six when he goes

to Ammit and tell her, "Take my life."

He's not one of those villains who are

actually trying to get their ways because

"I wanna control the world."

He doesn't care.

Your Scales lack balance.

I accept the Scales

regardless of the outcome.

Most people who commit

terrible crimes don't think

They wake up in the morning and go,

"I'm a bad guy."

They have their reasons.

Hell is paved with their reasons.

And so, I had to come up with his reasons

and make them as rational and sane

and compelling as possible.

When you think about

cult leaders throughout history,

megalomaniacs,

they very often,

at least start out extremely idealistic.

You see real, moral aspirations

in a lot of these people.

And so I tried to tap into

what he believes, and that if

You have to believe that

you're really helping.

We are here to make the Earth

as much like Heaven as possible.

Who'd like to go first?

I think that most successful villains

in the history of Marvel

are the couple of villains

that actually have some gray in them,

like Killmonger or Thanos.

People actually thought, "You know what?

You have a point."

And I hope Harrow is People are gonna

feel that about him. He has a logic.

Yeah, there's a logic.

And then there is also

It's very clear

that this guy comes from a lot of pain.

Comes from a lot of pain, and that he has

a humanity to him via that pain.

We got the pleasure of being able to

direct the opening scene of episode one

- that originally was to open episode two.

- Yeah.

We wish we could take

credit for it, but we can't.

We have to lay it at the feet

of Ethan Hawke.

He came up with this idea

that was a brilliant introduction scene.

That's why you hire Ethan Hawke.

You just watched somebody put glass

in their shoe and walk away with a cane.

And then, you know, scenes later,

this guy comes crunching down the road.

And you already know who he is,

you already know that

this guy's pretty messed up.

And it just creates so much mystery

and interest in who this person is,

and that was all him.

The idea of that cold open, we took it

and we played with it in the table reads.

I think it was Grant who said

we should pay off the shoes,

- it shouldn't just be an oddity.

- Smart.

Anything that is planted,

it has to have repercussions,

that domino effect of everything.

And a lot of things just, like, got born

- through those table reads.

- Yeah.

Hey, you see that, don't you?

Oh, yeah, I see it. I see it.

Grant Curtis, our producer,

I give him so much credit for this too

and Kevin and everybody at Marvel,

that they gave us the space to do this.

We would have weekly table reads

of the episodes

and just ask tons of questions

and get in there like mechanics,

you know?

It evolved into something that was

way more deeply philosophical.

It became super collaborative with Marvel

and the performers and you guys,

where we ended up kind of re-understanding

the character just from a character level.

We created, I think, an environment

that allowed people to

speak their mind narratively,

there was never judgment.

Just, "Yeah, what's best for my character?

"I'm throwing this out there,

bounce ideas back and forth."

And it made our scripts and our stories

and our series much better.

When on set,

it was how do we make this work?

How do we make this

the most honest it can be?

And we were all on the same page and so,

that's why I think it feels seamless

with Aaron and Justin, with Mohamed,

'cause we were all talking about

all those things.

I mean, it was all out there in the open.

May was on the table with us.

- She was a strong fighter for Layla.

Mmm-hmm.

Layla wouldn't have been

the way she was without May.

- Without a doubt.

- Uh,

she was like between her and Sarah

being the female voices in the room,

I think the two of them

and Egyptians knowing who she is,

the struggles that she had to go through.

Casting Layla wasn't easy

because I knew from the beginning

that it's not just a role,

it represents a whole group of people,

around the world.

I love May as an actress,

but it was very important for me

as an Arab to find someone

who can represent us.

- So no one's gonna be here?

- Yeah, you wanna just be giving

I didn't really know anything

about the role before I took it on.

She was Egyptian and that for me

was a very exciting thing to portray

in a Marvel production.

And then as time went by and I started

to figure out more about her

and I found out her, like,

trajectory and journey,

that became even more exciting.

Mohamed went for actors that I think

he just intuitively know commit,

just commit fully

and are not afraid to look silly doing it

or, you know, whatever it takes.

At every turn, she was completely game

and also had wonderful ideas

about this character

and about giving her a real voice.

Just so you know,

I'm not here to help you.

I'm here for me and for everyone else

who would die if Harrow succeeds.

I struggled a lot in the beginning.

As like quite a vulnerable person,

I had this idea of, like,

Layla has to be really strong

and she doesn't have feelings

and I would get really insecure

when I'd, like, cr*ck or cry

or feel a bit emotional.

But this is just kind of a real person

and it was important for me

to show all those sides of a woman.

Every time I learn something new

about you,

I think, "That's it. There can't possibly

be any secrets left between us."

And then something else pops up,

and it's like I've not known you at all.

Yeah, you haven't.

You don't.

I loved doing episode four

because I feel like Layla

got a lot of space

for us to see what she's going through,

like, internally

sort of be manifested

through the experience in the tomb.

The scene with Harrow

felt like a play on the day

because we were so spread apart

that there were two cranes filming us.

We did all of our close ups at the

same time, which was really incredible.

You handled that beautifully.

Why do all men like you

feel it necessary to be

so condescending?

It was really important

for me to have Layla

not just to be, like,

serving a man's journey.

Are you done?

Whether it's her father

or her lover or whatnot,

I feel like she's discovering herself,

which is the biggest thing.

I do hope you find closure.

So this is our Cairo set.

It's a very big day for us.

We have 255 extras working.

There's 55 picture cars

circling through there,

along with Oscar and May walking

through the streets of Cairo.

And action!

When I got on the Cairo streets,

I was so overwhelmed.

I had actual anxiety, which is

I feel that there sometimes

just because there's so much going on.

One of the most

interesting things was

creating downtown Cairo in Budapest.

We built a big backlot area

that's about four or five blocks of Cairo

with the green screen behind

which will be the pyramid.

Mohamed wanted to make sure

that if we weren't going to film in Egypt,

we were going to have Egypt

replicated to a T.

I'll tell you something

that pisses people in Egypt.

The pyramids, it's always

in the middle of the desert.

It has a side that is

in the desert,

and the other side

is in the center of the city.

So it was very important for me

to portray Egypt

as real Egypt.

We brought Egypt to Budapest.

Basically reconstructed Cairo here.

Cairo neighborhood down to,

you know, the license plates

and just even the T-shirts

and everything in Arabic.

And really, it brought me back

to being in Cairo.

It was really impressive.

Everything, all right.

I had tons of Egyptians, extras.

And some of them told me,

I haven't visited Egypt in five years,

and I finally feel home.

And they were just

very emotional about it.

Moon Knight is a gigantic production.

Probably the biggest production

we've done so far,

as far as just the overall scope

and size of the show.

We needed to go to a place that we could

get as many stages as we need.

Get as much backlot space as we need.

I knew that we would be able

to pull off practically

what we needed to pull off in Budapest.

We completely fell in love

with our production designer Stefania.

She's a character and a great person

and a hard worker,

but also just a genius, right?

I remember the day

she showed us that museum.

- Mmm-hmm.

- I was blown away like everyone.

It's a replica of everything Egyptian

I've ever seen in my life. It's, it's

She and her team, everyone, geniuses.

We are in the

Museum of Fine Arts in Budapest.

And we are recreating

what is supposed to be the

equivalent of the British Museum.

Egyptian part of the British Museum

in London,

with three big rooms

that we're dressing with our artifacts.

We made something like 140 pieces,

from the biggest one,

which is six meter and something high

to the smallest items

that have been sculpted and designed

and then recreated, yes.

Like jewels and small,

small, small pieces.

Because most of our story is

the duplicity of Steven and Marc,

those enclosed glass display

they were giving us,

you know, the playground

of reflection that we needed.

I can't believe it.

Oh, my days. We're inside.

We're inside the great pyramid of Giza.

This is our biggest set.

Probably. One of our biggest sets,

if not the biggest.

We're inside the pyramids of Giza,

and this is where the Avatars meet.

So it's a very essential place

to the story.

A lot of our story takes place there.

A lot of everything kind of

comes together there in that set.

So it was important for us to build that.

What we built practically

was about three stories,

as high as we could build onto the stage.

We are on stage six at the Origo,

and this is the set that we call

the Chambers of the Gods.

Here we are. sh**ting tomorrow.

It's kind of scary because I've never done

anything like this.

You know, it's very difficult to do Egypt

because I think

it's so easy to become cliché.

You know, Vegas type of a thing.

I had two Egyptologists.

One from here, one in LA,

and a researcher.

You know, we can take license,

and obviously we did take license,

but in a respectful way, I think.

I wanted to mix the Gods

that are the Marvel characters

with the original Gods statues.

You know, the idea was that every portal

is where the Avatars come in.

The disturbance.

Egyptian Gods are very tall in scale,

and we didn't want to have

just feet and knees on camera.

So we brought down the faces

and the representative animal

on ground level in the temple

to have a more interesting interaction.

We will decide our best course of action.

Speak your purpose.

The detail that was there

and the sculptures

that we had in the Hall of Gods

was amazing craftsmanship.

We had a whole stone shop

of people that were just there

building statues.

That's all they did all day long

was mold and form and carve statues.

The Alexander the Great set,

the amount of detail

There is no motivating reason

to go in and take a closeup of it.

But if you did,

everywhere you looked in this chamber,

it looks so authentic. It's so detailed.

Every little painting on the wall.

We are in Alexander's

burial chamber.

This was one of everybody's

most favorite set.

We have some of Alexander's treasure.

His famous horse.

His personal shield.

One of the challenging parts was

to paint it in a way that was accurate,

not by just one painter,

but by multiple people,

which would have happened.

We contacted an art school in Budapest,

where they have fantastic young artists.

We put out several projectors

with the layout of the hieroglyphs,

and they basically came and they painted.

So it was a fantastic experience for us,

because for me seeing

younger people involved

in something so different

from what they do was

They were very enthusiastic,

and I think ultimately it's priceless

what they gave us.

What Stefania did with these sets

as the production designer

is just so important.

For me, it's not because,

oh, I can feel like I'm really there,

you know. It's because

I see an artist bring their top game.

I see them come in and, like,

make huge choices about the story.

There's like little Easter eggs

that connect to other episodes.

There's, like Amazing thought

has gone into creating these sets.

So it's like,

this person is committing fully

and bringing everything they have

to the table.

I wanna do that, too.

I hope that part of the joy

of watching this show will be

exposure to this amazing

Egyptian mythology

that a lot of people don't have.

We dealt with classic

Joseph Campbell myths

for years in the West.

We saw a Stan Lee and Jack Kirby

adapted version of Norse myths, of course.

And now really tapping into

the mythology of ancient Egypt,

which is so formative for humanity itself

and for storytelling in general.

Egyptian mythology is one of the oldest

and the most fascinating ones

in the world.

I think Hollywood has been

reluctant to approach it.

I was lucky that I was given

the chance to show that.

And I was lucky that the elements

of the story had that from the get-go.

We had a great team.

We had the Egyptologists.

We had Ramy Romany with us

making sure that everything is correct.

Let's start with

Marvel was very keen on

trying to make Moon Knight

as historically accurate as possible

for a fictional show.

They were trying to thread that needle

between historical accuracy

and comic book accuracy.

The idea of an Avatar

is an ancient Egyptian idea.

Every pharaoh is believed

to be the God Horus.

So every ancient Egyptian pharaoh

is actually the Avatar of God Horus.

Binding the gods into a stone.

Now that's fiction.

That didn't happen.

But ushabtis are true.

Every time you go in any royal tomb,

there are ushabtis

that would help the deceased,

the king or nobleman,

into his journey of the afterlife.

Those ushabtis come to life,

and they serve the king in the afterlife.

Filming in Budapest,

there's a museum,

and it's got

an ancient Egyptian collection.

And there's a little cabinet,

of Taweret ushabtis

and there's a Taweret necklace.

And that was really special.

It kind of brings home that it's not just

a make-believe character

that we're bringing for the series,

but it has a long history.

Also being half Egyptian myself,

it's great that I get to play

this ancient Egyptian mythical character.

Anything else?

- That's it. Let's cut.

- Amazing. Yeah, let's cut it.

Antonia is

another fellow Egyptian

Thanks, guys.

who the moment everyone heard her,

this is Taweret.

By the way, today I learned Taweret,

without the R.

- Whoa!

- Taweret. Taweret.

I'm just gonna have you say it.

I'm saying it and I hope I'm saying it

in the right way.

We're all learning.

It's a language that is not spoken.

- So we're all learning it.

- Right, right.

But she is the character,

I think, like

they moved the character

and created the character

visually around her performance.

I remember the VFX team

showing us early motion capture.

- Yeah.

- They show us her little test

and then they show the exact mannerisms

being doubled by a giant hippo.

It was hilarious.

This will really bake your noodle,

but I think you were just taking

a little time-out.

I'm afraid you're actually quite dead.

We talked about actually having

a real costume for Khonshu,

a real costume for Taweret,

a real costume for Ammit.

Again, I don't like telling

a visual effects vendor,

just make it look real,

make it look like real cloth.

I'd much rather be able to say,

match the way that the light reflects off

of Antonia's shoulder,

or match the way

the beads look on our Ammit dress.

And then, yeah, having a performance.

I mean, having that for real

was was one of the things

that I really pushed for.

Welcome, gentle traveler Travelers,

to the realm of the Duat.

I think they're using

really new technology

where I am not burdened by this kind

of motion capture suit anymore.

I'm only wearing my costume.

And then we have the stick,

where basically there's an eyeline

for the nine-foot-tall version of Khonshu,

which will be placed in later.

We had a full-scale Khonshu skull

that we had manufactured.

So we'd have reference

of Khonshu's head.

We'd have great reference

of Khonshu's performance,

'cause we could see

how he was moving around

and we'd have a costume for reference.

So then we would recreate that

as a digital character

and you get clean plates

and all kind of stuff.

But it was really helpful to have that.

Give it back, you fool.

Being Egyptian and being somebody

who's very interested in ancient Egypt,

I find that Marvel is taking a bit

of creative license with Khonshu.

But they're also staying true to, I think,

the spirit of the mythology.

You know, khonshu means "traveler"

in ancient Egyptian,

and he's the protector

of the travelers of the night.

He's the moon God, and he's there to keep

the balance in the universe.

Do you swear to protect

the travelers of the night

and bring my vengeance to those

who would do them harm?

There's that literal side

of Khonshu,

and then there is the metaphor

which is the embodiment of Marc's rage.

k*ll him!

His rage at what has happened

to him as a child

Break his windpipe!

and his rage at himself

that feels that he deserves it

in some way.

And that he has to be a sl*ve to,

that he has no choice.

You know, almost like an addiction.

You think you own this body?

It belongs to me.

The other thing is like,

is Khonshu just another voice in his head?

And these are questions

that aren't answered readily.

Every aspect of this show

has a duality.

Every person has a dual self,

and the story has a dual nature.

Khonshu has this Avatar

whose job is to avenge wrongdoing.

And then I am working for a different God

whose goal is to eliminate all wrongdoing.

I could make a very compelling case

that I'm not playing the villain.

It's possible to watch this show

and think that this human being

has created these visions

of his psychiatrist

who's trying to "aleve" his pain.

And he wants his pain

because his pain gives him his identity.

Because a lot of us

store our identity in our hurts, right?

And so he's turned me into a villain.

And so I've tried to create a character

that could be seen

from either side of the coin.

I liked the villain.

His "No tree may ascend to

the light of heaven if it doesn't descend

"to the darkness of hell".

I actually believe that.

This is

the mental institution set.

As the point of view of Marc,

we go and reveal a lot of other characters

and motifs and visuals that we've seen

throughout the rest of the episodes

and reveal in that point of view

that his entire reality

may have been shaped

by his experiences here in this asylum.

Or maybe not.

I think that's also what was so fun

about this, is the puzzle pieces.

You know, not adding something

just for the sake of adding

something cool,

but really having it be

thematically interesting

and something that has a payoff.

Let me out!

Let me out! Let me out!

Let me out! Please.

It's such a mind trip, the whole thing.

But then, to be able to add

these little, like, points

that reorient you back

to those original things,

it's just so much fun.

- Steven!

- Marc!

How is this possible?

When we got to that part of the show

when actually they're outside

of each other talking to each other.

One of the crucial things was

my brother came out,

and he would play the other character

whenever I had to do one,

so that was great.

He's a great actor,

his name's Michael.

So he was really there for me,

and so often, sometimes when you watch it,

I'm acting with my actual little brother,

you know.

So, do we You go next, or

Who is that?

Marc,

why is there a child in a room filled

with people you've k*lled?

- Steven, look, don't go near him.

- Hey, little man.

What's your name? Hey!

Steven, Steven. Wait! Wait! Wait!

I will say that was some

of the hardest stuff I had to do,

from a technical level,

because sometimes

I'd have to make the choices

for both characters beforehand.

Rehearse it once with me as Steven.

Then rehearse it then with me as Marc

imagining how I wanted to react

at the time

and memorize the blocking.

And then have to do it all to no one.

Sometimes in a wider sh*t.

Know what Layla would be all right with?

- Don't. Just don't say it.

- I'm just saying there is

one hippo and two of us, all right?

It can't be that hard to steer this ship.

- And we don't have to actually

- Have to what? k*ll the Goddess Taweret?

Yeah. Just find me some rope

or something

Or we can do what she says,

and help each other uncover whatever it is

that we're hiding, apparently.

So those were some of the harder days,

because it was just so

technically demanding.

Right through these doors,

for example,

we go through here,

there's gonna be patients,

and there's Crawley

probably about to yell bingo!

Oh, my God!

Oh, my God!

This is Taweret's boat.

We've been filming here all this week.

Taweret is guiding them through the Duat

which is the ancient Egyptian Underworld.

Now I don't know what you two guys

have been hiding, but my advice,

get in there

and show each other the truth.

Balance your Scales before

we arrive at the Field of Reeds.

I think that's what's so interesting

about Moon Knight,

is that at the center of it,

you've got this really complex character

navigating this emotional journey.

- What are you doing here?

- Hmm?

Come on, buddy.

You were supposed

to keep him safe!

Steven, let's go.

There's a feeling of a brotherly

relationship between the two of them,

despite the fact that they are technically

the same person.

And there's something

almost paternal even.

But ultimately this story becomes

about unifying those two sides to himself.

Why do you have to make me do this?

I wanna see what she did.

You disgusting human.

You do not need to see that.

You're not meant to.

That's the whole point of you.

I think it was just about being honest

to what the ideas and honest to

You know, what a lot of people

have to deal with,

which is really intense childhood trauma.

And, you know, how that manifests

as an adult.

Of course, there's the allegory

of the Moon Knight

and the Gods and the powers.

But really, and it's a line

that we found in five.

It's this thing

that you think is an ailment.

My other personality that I can't control

and, you know, how horrible,

he ends up realizing that

that's actually his superpower.

All those horrible things

that she said to you,

she was wrong. It wasn't your fault.

I shouldn't have brought him in the cave.

Hey.

Hey. You were just a child.

It wasn't your fault.

At the end, Marc and Steven

learn how to live together as one person,

which turns out to be in the final fight

their advantage.

If you were to take Mr. Knight

and Moon Knight and combine them,

you'd have the ideal superhero, right?

The ideal superhero with humanity.

They sort of complete each other,

and that's the whole point.

It is a direct interpretation

of a healthy relationship

in DID with their alters.

You know, once they start

working together,

and how interesting would it be

to see a fight scene

where the two of them are morphing

throughout the whole thing

and actually complementing each other.

And also speaks to the description

of why Moon Knight

is such a worthy adversary.

It's because he's totally unpredictable.

I think throughout

the course of history,

the people who are truly benevolent

have forgiveness

as a part of their teaching,

that you still believe

that people can change

and they can grow and get better.

And I think what tips Harrow

into the fanatic point

is he really does not believe that.

You know, would you wait to weed

the garden until after the roses are dead?

A weed is a weed is a weed, you know.

It's gonna k*ll what's good,

and let's just nip it in the bud.

Even children?

And you're like, yes, even children.

And that's where you get into a fanaticism

that most of us can't go that distance.

At the end, it's about free choice.

Two ideologies fighting together.

One is trying to cleanse

the world from evil.

And the other one, "No, let's cleanse

whoever did something wrong."

It's about giving humanity a chance

to make its own mistakes

and learning from its own mistakes.

Had Ammit been allowed to rule,

young Randall's life would've been saved,

your family would have been happy.

She need only remove one weed

from the garden.

You.

We must rebind Ammit.

How?

Only an Avatar can do it.

Mohamed and Antonia came to

the makeup trailer 30 minutes

before we were going to film.

And Mohamed was like,

"Well, you see, in the Chamber of Gods,

"most of them, like embody the God.

So can you just copy Antonia,

"and memorize her lines

and then embody Taweret?"

And I was like, "Okay."

You've changed your mind.

It was so much fun working

on the physicality with May

as we were both playing the scene out,

and she was copying my movements that I do

when I'm Taweret and my intonations.

Say it, Antonia.

- Don't be scared.

- "Don't be scared."

I'm not sure it was always

going to be us two together,

but there's something so great about

the vibrancy and silliness of Taweret

being paired with Layla.

The show didn't start

with the Scarlet Scarab,

but seeing May and developing her

as an Egyptian character,

step by step, the idea came up.

Let's make her into a superhero.

We zeroed in on an Egyptian superhero

in the Marvel universe

named the Scarlet Scarab.

Traditionally, it's a male character

who goes and reappropriates

Egyptian artifacts from people

who have stolen

or gotten them by ill means

and returns them to the rightful owners.

We thought, "Man,

the way our narrative is teeing up,

"that lines up with exactly

what we needed for our show."

Right now, Marvel is the world

to a lot of people.

Kids, teens. To be part of that world,

it means that you exist.

- Mmm.

- Representation really.

I know this word now has been

thrown right and left.

But having someone like this

on screen, defending good,

that's the kind of story

that brings people together.

Would you say this fulfills

a childhood wish for you?

Absolutely.

I feel like, and I'm going

to speak from my experience,

like, when I've seen Arabs on film,

like, it's given me so much permission

and faith that I also have a space

and a place to do that.

And I want women there to want

to express themselves through art

and to share their story

and to, like, get out there more.

If I can share that

or help one person feel that way,

then I feel like my job is done.

Here we are in Jordan.

Well, we started in April,

about six months ago in Budapest.

And now, it's my last day

and the whole crew's

going to be finishing up

throughout this week on Moon Knight.

And this is about

the perfect place to end it,

right where I first fell in love

with movies, watching Lawrence of Arabia,

I get to sh**t scenes

on the same backlot.

The planet Earth.

Jordan was at

the very end of the sh**t.

If anyone would have told me

in a span of four years,

I'd be going to do

three different projects

in the Wadi Rum desert,

I would never have believed them.

But Star Wars, Dune and now Moon Knight,

all sh*t in the same desert.

Wadi Rum, the real desert.

It felt like a big summer vacation

for everybody.

You know, we were out in the sun,

you know, right by the the Red Sea

and going up to Petra.

It was an amazing way

to end the whole thing.

Whoo-hoo!

It's over!

We're in a fascinating moment

of storytelling,

which is the form of movies is changing.

This is not a TV show,

it's a movie on a larger canvas,

and we're trying to aspire to approach it

with that level of cinema

and that level of quality.

It's hard to paint such a big canvas,

you know. I mean,

it's damn hard to make one good movie.

To try to make three in a row,

you know,

is asking a lot of the craftsmen

and everybody involved.

So the lift is big.

Ethan, I remember,

said to us very early on.

He says, "We're having a great time now.

"But remember, someday you're going to be

on day 80 and you can't blink.

"It has to be as good as day one,

"because nobody's going to ever say.

'That wasn't so good.

"'But they were on day 80. Poor them.'

"It has to stay.

"You have to keep that dream alive."

It's such a challenge,

and I salute everyone who's doing TV.

Especially on this kind of caliber,

making it feel cinematic.

Six hours of film.

Oh, my God, guys,

it was such a taxing experience,

but very rewarding.

And I have to tell you,

one of the coolest things

to get to witness on this job

was seeing something at this scale.

And the alchemy it takes for something

of this scale to become personal.

It feels like a personal story.

It feels like your prior movies,

and it feels like you and Sarah.

And I can feel the humanity in it.

And to have the structure

of the creative collaboration that we had,

that we had all those days together

in a room spitballing.

I think in doing that we were able

to create something pretty bold,

and I think that's the aspect of it

that I'm really excited about

audiences seeing.

I would never have guessed,

and I don't mean this derogatorily,

that this would be one of my most

creatively fulfilling adventures.

Because it was just like,

everybody was throwing

everything out on the table

and taking big swings on a major stage.

And that we had the faith

and not only the space to do it,

but the support to do it was just amazing.

There are new challenges

and new rewards

that come with making longer form stories.

We're keeping the endings

more open now, I think.

We don't have to tie up every loose end.

And when you create characters

as strong as Moon Knight

and Scarlet Scarab,

we can confidently go into the future

knowing that there's more stories

left to tell

and new characters

that we can bring in to tell them.

What the hell was that?

I blacked out.