Phil Donahue:
We're talking about swinging,
two couples who swing.
Larry Levenson is here.
He's owner of Plato's Retreat
in New York City,
an actual
commercial establishment
where people can go and swing.
Some of the tenets
of swingers
include the separation of--
what they say
is the separation of sex and love.
We promote social intercourse
and sexual intercourse.
Whatever you want to do,
you can do.
( audience groans )
- Aren't you ill*gal?
- No. No way.
Sex is not ill*gal
anyplace in New York.
But I couldn't
open a cathouse,
could I?
- Well, that's paid sex.
- ( audience groans )
( disco playing )
( crowd rioting )
John Leo:
The ' s were
a transitional period.
It was when the ethic
of the ' s took hold.
Newscaster:
cops are injured.
Woman:
People were complaining New
York had become a pit of vice.
Anthony Haden-Guest:
That contributed to disco
and Plato's also
played its part
in suddenly turning things
around in New York
and making New York
what it was--
the most exciting city
in the world.
( disco music continues )
- # you make me feel... #
- it was a party town.
in New York was
a fabulous year.
Sexuality was in the air.
Haden-Guest:
Everybody was
immensely curious.
Lots and lots of heteros
would go to the g*y clubs
just to look
at the glory holes.
And lots of people who were not
remotely exhibitionistic
would go to Plato's.
Swing couples
went there to swap.
You try my wife
and I'll try your wife.
Forget about the sex.
You could wander around.
You could actually swim.
You could eat this free
third-rate buffet...
which I always considered
tempting, but dangerous.
They had dancing.
They had a show.
Dan Dorfman:
I thought to myself,
"this really can't be real.
Maybe I'm watching
a dirty movie."
But it was a dirty movie
that really came to life.
Friends of mine said that they
went there by looking at it
on cable television.
I was never
in Plato's Retreat.
I have no idea if they
in fact took off--
other than clothing.
years earlier everyone
was rolling around naked
in Woodstock, you know,
and smoking pot and screwing
their brains out, you know,
in the meadows.
So this was just
an indoor version that was
accessible to New Yorkers.
I am Larry's sister.
We were five years apart.
We were very very close
and we grew up
as best friends.
My parents had
a very conventional
lifestyle and marriage.
My father was
a hard-working man.
He was in
the kosher meat business.
Oldest memories
of Larry are as a...
smiling young man,
didn't really love
the academic pursuits.
When I first met Larry,
he had just gotten out
of the service.
He had told me that his father
had a butcher shop
and he was a wholesale
distributer of briskets.
And he would work nights.
And I really feel
that some of the times
that he said
he was working,
he wasn't working.
When he first married Gloria,
I don't think any of us thought
that it wouldn't last
because we didn't know anybody
who had separated or divorced.
I thought he was
cheating on me.
Danny Levenson:
My dad and my mom got
divorced when I was six.
So my dad really
wasn't around a lot.
My parents separated
when I was very young.
So my first recollection
actually is when my dad used
to work at McDonald's
and he brought me
the hamburglar-- it was
a little stuffed hamburglar.
So that's what I used
to sleep with-- I used to sleep
with a little hamburglar.
All I can remember is
through those years,
my mother yelling
at my father on the phone,
"they're waiting for you.
You didn't show up.
You said you were coming."
And of course every business
that Larry was in was
on the weekends.
So the times when fathers
would be with their children,
Larry was either off
selling sodas on the beach
or preparing
for swingers parties,
wherever
they might be held.
I was very surprised when
Larry was involved
in that kind
of lifestyle.
I really didn't think
that it was something that
would be his thing to do.
But maybe I just didn't
know him that well.
# what's our favorite
evening game? #
# night baseball? #
# oh, baby,
you're all wet #
# let's swap partners
is the name #
# suburban roulette... #
You know what I don't like
to see is this thing about
you have to be monogamous.
I say nobody's monogamous.
And if you make somebody say
that you're f*cking monogamous
and you're gonna be legitimate,
"I married her.
I'm never gonna f*ck,"
I'm a liar.
The swinging movement
was very small
and very secret.
We all have jobs and we all
pay mortgages.
Just because we consider
ourselves swingers,
we're not freaks of nature.
# I love your sister #
# tomorrow night... #
At a swing party, you can go,
you can find-- meet other people
that maybe can meet some
of your sexual needs
that maybe your spouse can't.
And yet you don't have
to go out and cheat.
Swinging is a situation
where a man and a woman,
part of their sex life
is to find other couples
or other people
that have similar interests,
that they like socially,
they like to be with,
but in particular
they want to have sex with.
# suburban roulette... #
# suburban roulette! #
The meeting area
was usually a bar
that they took over
for Friday, Saturday night.
I worked as a waitress
and some guys used to come in
and they brought in "screw"
magazine and I brought it home
and I showed it
to Charlie.
- And that's all it took.
- And there were all kinds
of ads in it.
- And we started
to think about it.
- Get interested.
It was interesting.
( Bass music thumping )
It was a place for them
to dance,
have a drink,
meet each other.
I remember it looked more
like a Bar Mitzvah.
# hey, little girl,
get your dancing shoes #
# gold satin jacket... #
I don't know anybody's last name
in any of these places.
And yet you can go home
with them, make love to them,
spend the weekend with them,
kiss them goodbye--
"see you next week,
John, Mary. Bye-bye."
And that's the end of it
and you're best friends
for life.
Steve:
People would be handing out
slips that say,
"okay, there's a party
on the east side tonight."
The only problem is
when you're stoned,
and I said, "Now I gotta
go to Queens?"
# the roller coaster
gotta make the most #
# and dance dance dance... #
I met Larry Levenson at a party
back in the mid-' s
in Coney Island, Brooklyn.
And he started arranging some
organized swing parties.
He liked the idea
of being able to have
that scene out in the open
the way g*y bars did.
It was a one-man band
at the beginning.
It was just him and Mary
and maybe a couple
of other people.
Mary made
all the phone calls.
Mary did a lot
of the footwork.
Mary was actually responsible
for putting together
the logo of Plato's.
The backward twos
was Mary's idea.
I'm going to ask you
one of my favorite
indiscreet questions.
How did you and Larry meet?
Now come on, the truth now.
Well, I had come
with another young man
to Plato's
in its first location.
And I fell in love
with him on the spot.
# when I get home, babe... #
Dian Hanson:
Mary and Larry were swingers
And they started
the club together.
And it seemed like
a perfect idea
and a way to be close.
So it was a family thing.
# I wanna kiss you
all over... #
Reporter:
What did he say?
Do you remember?
- ( giggles )
- Out with it!
I was on my way
to the ladies' room
and he told me to come
on in the water.
And I told him
I couldn't right then
because I was on my way
to the ladies' room.
And he said, "come on in.
The water's nice and warm
and that's how
it got that way."
That's it, that's Larry--
Mr. Taste.
- You got to know Mary
better than me...
- Yes.
...Physically and mentally.
( laughs )
That might have been
your first female, I think.
Really, huh?
- No.
- No?
It mushroomed from there.
Got ahold of a hotel--
this hotel basement
pool area.
Yeah, so this call came in
from somebody--
I don't remember
who it is anymore,
some friend or acquaintance
and said, "there's this
live sex club
where people are having sex
in front of everybody."
And I said, "you mean
a g*y bar?"
and they said, "no no,
these are straight people."
# am I dreaming #
# that you're with me? #
- # am I dreaming... #
- Steve: Plato's was always
for couples only.
And of course we always
invited single ladies.
It was a tacky little place.
And sitting behind there
is this guy Larry--
who I later learned
is Larry Levenson.
He seemed in charge
and he's sitting there
in a towel,
and that's it.
One of the best
parts of it for me
was that it was relaxed
in the sense that people
were coming and not necessarily
doing anything.
Not even necessarily taking
their clothes off.
Two of the men...
were wearing no clothes
except for black socks
and shoes.
And walking around that way,
kinda like that stag-film look.
So I wrote it up.
I played it pretty big.
And a few days later
I went there-- went back.
# one thing I feel
that I like... #
Plato's was a simple name.
It's the only one I could
spell actually.
So we used Plato's.
Then after that I found out
that Plato's was g*y,
but it was too late.
The lines were
just unbelievable.
I mean we went from, what?
, couples or people
to !
Now you have a lot of people
that don't know the old crowd.
There were people that used
to come to Plato's
that to most people--
would say were not the most
physically appealing,
but they were the nicest people
you'd ever want to meet
in the world.
They were walking around
with the black socks
and the shoes,
and this new group
were just naked
and much wilder.
People say, "hey, you got
a date? You want a night out?"
et cetera, et cetera.
"You and your date,
you got a date that's
sort of on the wild side?"
Personally I think that
with a little
encouragement
everybody's
on the wild side.
All of a sudden he really
was on a runaway tiger--
of sex.
- It was like a big party.
- There was literally lines
around the block.
Charlie:
They were just coming down
and in and taking over
and dancing and holding hands,
and hugging.
It was a sight.
Freaked me out.
I didn't know.
Steve:
Plato's was becoming big.
We needed a big place.
We needed a special place.
He contacted a couple
of good friends of his
which I also knew:
Frank Pernice,
Frankie-- he was
some sort of caterer.
Frank came home
one day and said,
"what a great idea.
This has to be fantastic."
About a week
or two weeks later,
we met Hy Gordon there.
Could be dangerous.
They were gentlemen.
They were the type of people
that they didn't have
to throw their weight around,
if you understand what I mean.
Why Larry had to hook up
with these people--
I can't tell.
I don't know.
Frankie used to say
that Larry had a grocery store
and he turned it
into a supermarket.
Captain John:
He ended up renting
the Ansonia Hotel.
Charlie:
It was actually a g*y...
- bathhouse.
- ...bathhouse.
In fact Bette Midler
sang there.
And what's-his-name.
- The piano player--
Barry Manilow.
- Barry Manilow.
# Tootsie roll soul
and doodle-white shoes... #
Woman:
When I first heard
about Plato's,
all my ideas and everything
I had heard about Plato's
basically was wrong.
I thought that I would walk
through the door and trip over
a lot of f*cking bodies
in the middle of the floor.
And it just doesn't
happen that way.
It was a dark door,
just a rope outside.
It had a long stairway
going down.
And I think
the admissions people
were at the top
of the stairway.
Walking into Plato's is not
necessarily an event in itself.
Just being there
is the event.
Plato's Retreat is not
a sex club, it's a swing club
for free-thinking free-living
adult couples.
It's a club
with everything disco,
everything included,
with sex available
if couples want it.
Bacho:
I asked,
"what the f*ck is it?"
You know?
There's like mattresses
laid together.
It was a dance floor.
Then you had the dance floor
in front of me.
Most everyone was
walking around naked.
As I said, at first we wrapped
our towels around us
when we first walked out,
but then when we saw
the atmosphere
of everybody very free,
laughing, kissing,
and really without their towels,
we figured what the heck.
Bryce Britton:
I don't know, it was
just kind of like
a bathhouse locker room.
But I do think that there was
A lot of, like,
coaching going on,
at least with the women
and encouragement,
and a feeling of sisterhood
like we're all in this together.
There was just lots
of lonely people
looking to meet other people.
Sex was part of the game,
but it wasn't the whole game.
Nobody made fun of you.
Nobody said, "ugh!"
you know?
How you look,
how you look disgusting
or whatever--
Any inhibitions you had
you got over.
And you didn't
have them anymore.
# I can see you coming
a mile away... #
And you had a jacuzzi.
Al Goldstein:
Anyone who went into
the jacuzzi was insane
Because I think there was
every kind of bacteria.
It was chemical warfare.
We played ping-pong.
We went swimming.
Abigail:
People have a sense of
being cleansed in a pool.
This was a naughty pool.
Jacqueline:
Guys were floating on the top
of the water
And their penises were sticking
up and it looked like
periscopes.
( laughs )
I had just come from Paris
so I was a young photographer,
and kind of a shy girl
from Ohio.
So I-- I--
I disrobed...
And I plunge into the pool.
And I'm swimming.
I, like, go.
I sort of underwatered
the whole length of the pool.
And when I come up,
I see all these men
standing around the pool
And they're all jerking off.
And their come is, like,
coming in an arc
across the pool
over my head.
It was just amazing.
That was one of
my biggest regrets--
was that I didn't
get that picture.
- You go there, right?
- Definitely, yes.
- There's a membership fee?
How much is it?
- Right.
It cost $ per couple.
Now for that, you get
a meal that was fantastic,
like you get
at any Bar Mitzvah,
a full smorgasbord.
Chicken, ribs, chow mein,
lasagna, meatballs.
- Spaghetti.
- No, lasagna.
- Oh, okay.
- Potato salad, macaroni.
- Cold cuts.
- Coleslaw.
- Cold cuts.
- Cold cuts.
- Did I say chicken?
- Yeah.
Why are you asking about
that horrible food?
Jesus.
Which, by the way,
Larry thought was wonderful.
Larry really thought
that was wonderful.
He was so proud
of his buffet.
But the buffet
was disgusting.
There was people--
oral sex this and that--
All crazy sex things.
So we left there.
I said I want to go
to the room and eat
my sandwich.
So we went to another room--
I guess the pool table--
and they were having sex
on the pool table.
We used to go buy
pizza for ourselves
and it was real good pizza
and we said to Larry,
- "it would be nice after
the food's almost gone"--
- just to break it up.
- About : in the morning.
- When you start running
out of food
and people come out of the orgy
or they're dancing,
swimming-- you feel
like grabbing something.
They're tired of
a bologna sandwich.
I said, "Hey, why don't you
order pies?"
"Why not?"
- Woman: You weren't
hiding, were you?
- No.
- Did you meet a nice girl?
- No.
Leo:
Everything was open except
these few black cubicles.
That you could have private sex
if you felt embarrassed
to be doing it in front
of the Japanese tourists.
Don:
You could hear conversations in
the room to the right of you,
on the left of you.
You'd hear women trying
to figure out
who was going to carpool
to Hebrew School in the morning.
We spent some
very very happy hours
controlling our hysteria
so that people inside wouldn't
know that we were listening
to the kind of forced dialogue
between people who have just met
in an orgy room.
It was good stuff.
I wish I'd recorded some of it.
When Larry showed me
into this closed Cubicle
and the woman
in there was his wife Mary,
he seemed almost excited
to be able to introduce Mary
to the press:
"Hi, Mary, how are you?
This is John Leo."
And again it was
almost the enthusiasm
of a Kiwanis executive
showing off his home town.
- Larry:
Why repress your desires?
- Donahue: What?
- Why repress your desires?
- I'd like to be in the
Indianapolis too,
but I have the common sense
not to engage in it because
it's not good for me.
( applause )
And that's just what he said--
"it's not good for everybody."
So for you,
it wouldn't be good.
The mattress room was
the most intense.
And for people who found Plato's
really uncomfortable
in terms of almost morally,
that was the toughest place
to go and look.
You would have maybe
bodies in there
on a busy night
and just writhing together
like a bucket of worms.
# love today,
cry tomorrow #
# who's to say #
# life is g*y... #
- Abigail: "look at that guy's--
he's not really handsome,
but look what he's got.
And look what she's got
and where is that going?"
It was real and your ears
could hear it was real.
Someone-- ( moans )
the breathing and even
the smell and the sweat
and the-- ugh.
It exhilarated me
and at the same time
it sort of depressed me.
Because it completely
kills your notions
about romance.
Like a dance floor,
sometimes people are
just dancing.
But sometimes there's
a groove-- a tribal groove
that people get in
and be in incredible synch
and there would be
a lot of energy
and it was like that
with the mattress room.
I was terrified
of the matt room.
( moaning )
And you'd f*ck a little
and you watch a little
and hang out,
f*ck a little more.
# danger in the shape
of something wild #
# stranger dressed in black,
she's a hungry child... #
( heart beating )
( panting )
Dorfman:
Bacho the disc jockey, he told
me, "you're a reporter, right?"
He says, "watch!"
he played the music.
He'd speed up the music
and the things would go faster.
He slowed down
the music and the things
would go slower.
It was unbelievable.
You had to be there to see that.
Fast and slow lovemaking.
Ferrato:
Ejaculation juices
were everywhere.
So I'm sitting on a lot
of these wet cushions.
And then on one
of these nights I go home
and I start feeling
really itchy.
"Oooh, what's that?
What is that?"
And then I looked down and I see
all these crabs were in there
and I just got
a big dose of it.
You know, because that's
where crabs breed
is in all those damp,
moist...
nether places.
I mean, I just remember
a lot of this--
you know,
in the mattress room.
# hot child in the city. #
What made you organize--
originate
Plato's Retreat,
A place
for swinging couples?
- What is
the swinging movement?
- It's a couples' movement.
Couples that want
to be free-thinking,
free-living adult couples.
They don't believe
in monogamous relationships.
They would rather
get involved with other people
but together with their spouses
instead of cheating with them.
# I was born
with a smile on my face #
# the whole of my life's
been a pantomime... #
Leo:
Larry had the pitch
and tone of a missionary.
He thought he was the future
and he was pulling back
the curtain
on something
wholesome and happy.
I only actually
met him once,
and I was unable
to shake his hand
because just before
he extended it,
he was doing something
with it
that would tend to make you
want to stay several yards away.
# born with a smile
on my face... #
Hanson:
Larry said, "I fall in love
with every woman
I have sex with,
even if I have sex
with women a night."
And Larry could have sex
with women a night.
He was phenomenal that way.
He said, "It's always
romance,
it's always exciting
and I'm always grateful."
# to have your leisure
give you pleasure... #
The thing I mostly remember
is he had these giant teeth.
He had really huge teeth.
There's a yiddish word--
hamisch-- and that's
what he was.
He was like
your nicest uncle.
- A Hugh Hefner.
- A maitre d'.
Larry was...
no question a trailblazer.
He was a pioneer
in his field.
Quite the guy.
Whether you
were in the business,
whether you were rich,
whatever, Larry always
had time for you...
especially if you had
a great-looking wife.
I think he was lonely.
I think he loved attention.
He loved having people
around him, you know?
And he loved being, I guess,
you know, the guy with--
the kid with the--
with the baseball bat.
It was his glove, his bat,
his ball, you know?
Hi there. It's Larry
and Mary again
to tell you about
Plato's Retreat,
the first and only
couples' club of its kind
anywhere.
Yes, there's a full-length
swimming pool
and outrageous whirlpool
which holds about people
at a time,
disco dancing
with a live DJ.
I grew up
in the upper-middleclass
Jewish Catskills
of the Concord Hotel.
I was Miss Concord Hotel
at .
And it seemed to me that
all of those people
had children,
and all those children
moved to Long Island,
and Southern Jersey.
And all of them
went to Plato's.
# when I wake up #
# in the morning light... #
Ferrato:
The crowd at Plato's
was conventional.
Abigail:
It wasn't filled
with my friends,
but it did a great job
in some ways because it sort of
liberated Long Island.
It liberated New Jersey.
Haden-Guest:
I never saw a velvet-rope
type situation there.
I don't think there might
have been a velvet rope.
I never saw an eager crowd
waiting to get in
with bouncers
keeping them out.
Everything at Plato's,
even the ugly person--
I don't think there
were any-- was-- was--
had a certain charm.
- It was a poor man's
playboy mansion.
- Absolutely.
Matuschka:
I actually admire people
that are that free
that could go into a place like
that and just let it
all hang out,
take all their clothes off
and walk around--
including those fat people that
look like they've got, you know,
double sets of twins
in their belly.
I'm amazed that they can
do that because even though
I looked a lot different then--
I was skinnier
and I had two breasts--
I couldn't take my clothes off
in front of strangers.
I mean, I think it takes
a lot of something to be
able to do that.
# I'll meet ya
in the usual place...#
Dorfman:
I thought they had
resuscitated the orgy
For the man in the street,
which is exactly what they did.
You pay whatever it is--
, bucks--
You get in and you can
join in an orgy.
Where can you do that
in the United States?
You could do it
at Plato's.
My friends were very...
you know, backwards.
And I-- I grew
away from my friends.
I grew away.
I went to the city.
I went to bars.
I went up on Second Avenue,
First Avenue,
up to Uptown.
I wanted to meet
a more educated crowd.
I was no boy scout.
I was a wild guy,
Very uninhibited.
I was a model.
The first time I heard
about Plato's Retreat
was I went to Club Med
at Martinique with
a friend of mine
and this guy was telling me,
"Miles, you're gonna love
this place.
It's wild.
Everyone's having sex
all over the place."
My boyfriend was a minister.
and he asked me
to go to Plato's Retreat
that night
And we went.
I was a tingling mess
of hormones.
I was like-- almost like
when you're a teenager.
Miles:
As soon as I walked
down the stairs,
a little redheaded girl
comes up to me,
really pretty,
grabs me by the arm
and says, "Come here.
Come with me."
Betsy:
At first we talked
to each other for a little bit.
And, um, you know,
he was obviously more
comfortable there than I was.
We go right into
a little private room.
You'll love that.
We're in Plato's Retreat,
where everyone's having
sex all over the place,
there are little rooms
called "for the inhibited."
Everybody was so nice to me.
Everybody made you feel at home.
I had a chance to...
look around
a little bit.
And somewhere in there
he disappeared.
And I found myself
with a construction worker
from Connecticut.
# at Plato's Retreat #
# you can make your dreams
come true #
# fulfill your wildest
fantasies #
# we've got them all
for you... #
She was nuts,
absolutely wild.
She goes, "Oooh,
p*ssy loves c*ck.
p*ssy loves c*ck."
Unbelievable-- a maniac.
I said, "this is my kind
of place."
# the pleasure
and the fun #
# will keep you
feeling young #
# it's for you #
# it's for you... #
I was a young
good-looking kid, I guess,
and several girls
came on to me
and their boyfriends
weren't that attractive.
and if you had to go with one--
you had to trade off.
( laughs )
And she yelled at me,
she screamed at me,
and I said, "Just do it!
Just do it."
You know?
And...
we didn't talk much
after that.
# the pleasure
and the fun #
# will keep you
feeling young #
# it's for you #
# it's for you... #
He was a wonderful lover.
And I said to myself,
"People who come to
Plato's Retreat
must be pretty good lovers,"
because this man had been.
Um...
# it's for you! #
I wanted to tell the people
I grew up with,
like, no, I came
from a neighborhood
in Queens, New York.
But you couldn't tell--
you couldn't talk about
that kind of thing with guys
from the neighborhood because
they wouldn't believe you.
To be honest,
it was going out
on an edge for me.
It was a very edgy
thing to do
to...
you know, spend an evening
in Plato's Retreat.
There was this
attractive mulatto woman
going down on her man
with her a*s up in the air.
I sat down
on the mattress next to her
and started stroking her.
No opposition, so I--
I guess, you know,
stuck my c*ck in her p*ssy
and screwed her.
And she didn't even look back.
She was too busy blowing
her boyfriend.
I hope I'm not
being too vulgar.
The minister and I...
did hook up sometime
during that evening.
But I don't remember when.
- Which is telling.
- Larry: Phil?
Yeah-- yes, Larry Levenson,
Plato's Retreat.
I can speak for Plato's
and we get about
% new couples
every night.
We have disco dancing--
in fact we have a song
about Plato's Retreat that's
number six in the country
right now.
Abigail:
I met people years later
who said things like,
"oh, I went in there.
I went to Plato's."
I went to Plato's, you know?
It became part of the memoir.
You know?
That was exciting in itself.
We had judges, lawyers,
police--
- Senators.
- Senators.
Ferrato:
Robin Leach who was...
He was there just to look.
Students met
their professors,
guys met their ex-wives,
future wives.
Sammy Davis, JR.
on the dance floor
at Plato's Retreat,
it was a treat.
They'd tell me
this guy was a big star--
Frank Sinatra's friend,
you know.
- Althea, his wife...
- Althea, his wife.
...pulled her shirt up.
Oh, man, how could
I forget his name?
He's a writer--
Hugh Hefner's friend,
he committed suicide...
Jerzy Kosinski.
Much of the cast
of "Saturday Night Live."
What's his name?
Dreyf-- Richard Dreyfuss.
He never came down
with a lady.
Again he was invited
to stay.
Hanson:
Dan Pastorini was
having a big year
with the Houston Oilers.
And the men recognize him.
And the men started,
"It's Dan Pastorini!
It's Dan Pastorini!"
And just immediately
grabbing their wives
and just-- you know,
"f*ck Dan Pastorini!"
Reporter:
Why did you decide
in early
to go underground?
There was no way that I could
possibly get a fair trial.
Smith:
Abbie Hoffman was
underground,
running from the FBI,
basically.
And one of these times
I got a phone call from him
saying, "I'm in town.
And I've been reading
all about Plato's
in your column
in the 'Voice' and I want
to go to Plato's Retreat."
And I said, "are you
out of your mind?"
( slurring )
This is where we're working
on the new constitution.
- ( giggles )
- Smith: And he said, "no no no,
I gotta go. I gotta go.
I gotta go there.
I gotta see it.
I can't miss this."
He comes over after awhile
and he says,
"Can't I tell them who I am?
I mean, they-- they--
they just walk away from me.
I thought you said everybody
gets laid here."
I said, "go ahead, but I think
it's really dangerous."
Abbie was one
of the first people
that I knew that couldn't
get laid at Plato's.
I probably wouldn't have gone
as many times as I did,
but friends from California
kept asking me
to walk them in.
I was wondering, do you get
a lot of curiosity seekers,
people that just like
to go and watch?
- Man: Yes, voyeurs,
definitely.
- Like me.
Yes, there's no pressure,
there's no obligation
and no commitment to do
anything at our club.
And I'm positive
it's the same way
at Larry's club.
Woman:
I come for...
sex, good conversation,
intellect.
Michael:
The only rule, actually,
in the entire club was no.
If somebody said no,
that was it.
But if they allowed it,
anything went.
Females first.
They set the rule.
If they want to be touched,
that's fine.
They don't want to be touched,
they're not gonna be touched.
If she wants to walk around
with her top off...
she walks around
with her top off.
That was it.
I think at Plato's it was
kind of interesting that women
were really in a position
to be assertive,
to approach men for sex,
to kind of try out a lot
of the things
that we had been
on the receiving end of.
It was yummy. Why let
them have all the pleasure?
Why even pretend that you
didn't feel good about it
and you didn't have a good time
when you were sexually involved?
Dodson:
The whole thing
with Plato's is
that you would walk
into this space,
and whether or not
you had sex with anyone
was really not the point.
The point was is that
everybody there
was willing to be nude,
available maybe for sex
and open.
Sex with another man
is a fantasy of mine.
I'm someone else.
It's an ego trip.
I think
that's exactly what it is.
It's an ego trip
having some other man,
other than my husband,
telling me "you're beautiful.
You're good in bed."
all this, you know?
It's really
a fantasy for me.
And it also felt like
you had a secret,
that you had a secret world
that most of the people
who were either going to work
or just going about
their business in the city
that they didn't know
what you had experienced.
Again, it's not just sex.
It's not going in there
and say, "I'm going
in there 'cause I just want
to grab somebody
and I wanna..."
Can I say certain words?
Okay.
"...get laid."
I was a social worker
in .
But I had good evenings
after my social work.
# oh, how happy #
# you have made me #
# oh, how happy #
# you have made me #
# I have kissed
your lips #
# a thousand times... #
Van Peebles:
I remember once,
this couple--
I'm sure they've been
thrown out of every swingers
club in the world
because they were so large.
They had to weigh lbs each.
And they were jitterbugging.
They were dancing.
They had on their towels.
They had to have double towels
around them.
And the towels,
of course, fell off.
And then nobody gave
a doo-doo-caca.
But what happened was--
it was when they stomped,
they were shaking the--
the-- the--
the Platters for the DJ
because they weighed so much.
I mean, they were shaking
the whole damn floor.
But it was--
nobody cared.
It was really
very very nice.
This was
Larry Levenson's castle.
Plato's Retreat was the way
that Larry could
embrace everybody
and-- and--
exude his generosity,
his bounty.
Family togetherness today
at a place called
Plato's Retreat.
This afternoon the owner
held an open house there
for children.
In most cases
it was a family affair
at Plato's today...
Michael Levenson:
The first time I
actually went
to the club,
the club was closed.
My father used to run,
like, holiday parties--
Memorial Day, Labor Day.
He would actually rent
the big bus, have it parked
at my high school.
I would invite
of my best friends.
- Woman: Do you mind that
your mother comes here?
- No, I don't care.
He had a disco
and there was a game room there.
Everything was
the same as if it was open,
except there was no nudity
or no sex.
It was a bunch of kids.
That's when we
started understanding
what everything was about.
He used to be called-- what?
King of Swing.
Yeah, that's right.
He was called King
of Swing.
# at Plato's Retreat... #
Larry, let us
into your heart a minute.
A lot of people
are saying Larry Levenson,
a lot of people
say sleaze.
I heard the President's
speech the other night.
He talked about truth,
service, sacrifice,
the American dream.
And then we see in this
country a disintegration
of the American family--
That's what you're really
telling us. That's what
Plato's Retreat
- is about--
or monogamy is dead.
- Oh no.
- Man: No!
- Siegel: I'm saying that--
Mary:
This is a preservation
in a sense, Stanley.
Don't you realize
how many men say
"I'm going out
with the boys tonight,"
- And they cheat and they lie?
- The question is
why aren't you in jail?
We're here at
the New York Aquarium now.
- ( laughing )
- Watching orca Shamu
do his thing.
Larry, you know, I've never
really gotten a chance
to talk to you.
Why don't you play
with my a*s and tell me
your philosophy of life?
Whoo!
- Oh my god, he's doing it.
- Bacho: Larry got involved
with younger women,
wanted to hang out
with these women that took
him for his money--
the money he didn't have
and the drugs he did have.
Larry was boring
because he thought
his whole world was sex.
His world
was genitalia.
Again,
he never read a book.
He never had a thought.
It was all about him
as a legend.
He really thought
that when it came to swinging
he was-- everyone looked at him
as "The King" literally.
We got people
from Fort Lauderdale.
We got people from California.
We got people from Paris,
France, coming to Plato's.
They fly in.
We're the eighth wonder
of the world.
Okay?
I think it's different,
but I don't think
it's immoral.
This is the biggest thing
to hit New York city since
the World's Fair.
And it is.
Dorfman:
The interesting thing
about Larry was
The guy was getting social
security checks.
He didn't have any money,
yet he was able
to borrow $ , .
Where does a guy
get $ , ?
Goldstein:
He was Colonel Sanders
and he had to do
his little step--
Step-and-fix-it routine.
Donahue:
Is it your view we're gonna
have Plato's Retreats--
it's gonna be part of
Oshkosh, Wisconsin, too someday?
Within the next three months
there will be four more Plato's
Retreats around the country.
Larry started to believe
the bullshit.
I bullshit all the time
when I'm interviewing.
Larry did too, but Larry
exaggerated the importance.
I always argued,
"It's just f*cking."
What is f*cking?
It's friction.
You believe
in a free society?
A free society where people
can just have a good time
and enjoy themselves
the way they want to,
without hurting anybody else.
It's a devastating therapy.
- Larry: But it works for them.
- Man: Is it for them?
Hanson:
I saw a fight between a couple
there at Plato's once
where the husband
had found out
that his wife had
mended the pants
for a man who was there.
And in fact
they'd had sex many times,
but it was this little
personal touch that
showed affection
that made
the husband insane.
I could never
bring somebody special,
somebody I cared about there.
I couldn't handle my wife
or my girlfriend being
with somebody else.
And me
sitting and watching?
You really did see
that sometimes
that what they came out for
bit them in the behind.
They got more than what
they really bargained for.
If I wanted to have an affair
with a man or sleep with a man
that I felt attractive,
I can do it.
And Michael knows about it.
It's like dual infidelity.
Interviewer:
Do you think Larry is faithful
to you out of Plato's Retreat?
For example,
is he with other women,
do you think?
- Yes, very definitely.
- How do you know?
- I don't have time.
- Trust.
I believe Mary...
Always had feelings
for Larry.
I think her whole life
was wrapped around him,
wrapped around the lifestyle.
Most people look at Plato's
as the new sexual lifestyle
of the st century.
Honestly
what most people feel--
I know this is
another judgment--
they feel something's
gone wrong here.
Mary:
Well, maybe something has.
Maybe every marriage
in this country has a little
something wrong with it.
She knew the people.
She knew the crowd.
And I think,
like anything else,
too much of something
could freak you out.
There was no Mary room.
There was no...
fancy room where Mary could
sit up there and be queen
and men would come
and court her.
They seemed to have
a respectful relationship
for a time.
I don't have much more
to add about that.
No, I don't remember
much more-- same.
- Are you married?
- No, uh...
- We were-- I was--
- Are you married?
--in strictly
monogamous relationships.
- In a sense--
- You don't hear me.
--In a sense, David,
we are married
because I intend to spend
the rest of my life
with Larry
whether he likes it
or not, but, uh...
- But technically no?
- Technically no, we're not.
Man:
What is the address
of the new Plato's
and what is the opening date?
The grand opening will be
December th, on a Friday night
at : P.M.
That's of this year,
of course.
When the th street
location opened,
it was hopping.
Larry:
This is the matt room.
This is a place where you
get , couples in here
at one time.
You must be
undressed to come in here.
It's a beautiful sight.
Veronica Vera:
It was located directly
across from McDonald's.
And people used to say it had
become the McDonald's of sex.
Nina:
I was this normal
housewife person.
My husband left,
his girlfriend was
having a baby.
And you meet different people.
I was working at the movie
theater in the village.
I was selling the tickets
to "Rocky Horror."
And the first time I went
to Plato's, it seemed people--
like actually doing
something in the open,
you just-- you don't
believe what you saw.
Because it was like
turning a page in a magazine
and you're
sitting there
and then you
make up your mind.
You know, you're either
into it or you're not.
And I was into it.
One time I was standing there
by the ladies' room
in the back
and a young girl
came up to me,
and she said to me,
"are you outrageous?"
And I said, "yes, I am."
and with that I put my hand
on her breast.
She said, "perhaps you'd
like to join us?"
I said, "oh,
thank you very much"
and I was invited to go
in this room with seven
other ladies.
Another time I was there
with a young gentleman
and he knew this couple:
The lady was Chinese,
the husband was a white
gentleman.
And he said to me, "You want
to do something with them?
The husband doesn't do anything.
He just sits in the corner.
We could be with the lady,
the three of us."
And I said okay.
And the husband just
sat there in the corner.
Like touching
his wife's shoulder,
but not joining in.
( camera clicks )
I was going to be
President of the P.T.A.
What do you want out
of your life that you're
not getting from Mary?
That I am not
getting from Mary?
There is no man in the world
that can say that
his woman gives him
every need that he has--
that there is to have.
I want as much as I can possibly
have in this lifetime.
And that's what I'm doing.
I'm enjoying myself,
I'm happy
and that's the bottom line.
Smith:
One of his constant refrains
whenever he was interviewed
or talked to anybody was
swinging and Plato's will
not save a bad marriage.
It's something extra you do
in a great marriage for fun.
As swinging was explained to me
by him when I was a kid
was: There is no jealousy.
You know?
Swinging is a thing
where couples are
in a relationship
with each other.
Okay?
They have feelings
for each other
as if non-swingers do.
But the only difference is
that when they're
with someone else,
it's just sex.
There's no feelings.
Ferrato:
I never saw him
going around with Mary.
I never saw them having sex
with other couples.
It was always Larry.
Do you have relationships
with other men there?
- Occasionally, yes.
- Does he know about it?
Yes.
- Do you countenance it?
- I think it's fantastic.
Hanson:
Mary would be having
a lot of men.
You weren't really
supposed to have a g*ngb*ng
just out on the main floor.
You were supposed to go
somewhere, and Larry might
speak to Mary about it,
and then he'd go off and--
ohhh-- you know,
and say, "Mary's upset."
We'd say, "Mary doesn't
look upset. Mary looks like
she's having a good time."
"No, Mary's upset."
Vance:
She was losing Larry,
not just to the lifestyle,
but to one particular
woman or another.
Do you really believe
that you can make love
to a person one time
and fall in love with them?
I don't think it can happen.
I really don't.
I've never seen it happen.
He was there
just to have sex.
The whole thing was how many
women he could get.
Vance:
She wasn't having it
and I don't blame her.
So she went on with this affair
with the chauffeur.
Mary and Larry
were-- were--
He was starting
to tell her to stay home,
and the chauffeur knew
both of them
because he used to drive
both of them to Plato's.
It ended badly.
They wanted
to k*ll each other.
The chauffeur was
in love with Mary.
Larry was in love
with Mary.
Mary was in love
with the chauffeur-- it was
this big nasty triangle.
- Larry would send
Mary home with Ron.
- Yeah.
So maybe one thing
led to another.
I think in the end
he...
The chauffeur had Larry
kidnapped,
beaten to a pulp,
sent--
put in the hospital
in an effort to end it
in his favor.
That's what
I believe happened.
- I never seen a guy
that was beat--
- So beat up.
- I mean--
- His face was like
out to here.
I think Larry Levenson
wound up in the hospital
in Queens stemming
from this conflict
between him, Mary
and the chauffeur.
After the kidnapping,
Mary came by the club
a couple of times.
You know, she seemed
basically out of it.
You know, she was older
and at one point she might
have been the queen,
but she definitely
wasn't now.
( crowd cheering )
( couple laughing )
Vance:
She almost wound up
on the street.
She was institutionalized,
I believe,
at Bellevue
for a while
and she did have
a breakdown.
She was really a nice woman.
Nice lady.
Maybe they made up that story
that it was this guy
- to stay away
from the wiseguys.
- Ron.
We don't know.
Why it happened,
we never knew.
But even then Larry
was running around, like,
in a wheelchair
and he was perfectly fine.
He was saying, "Aw,
it's nothing."
I'll be fine.
I'll be walking."
and he was.
He was, like,
smiling through it all.
Plato's Retreat is
an unlicensed club
- for swinging couples, right?
- Larry: We have a charter.
In approximately
July of ,
there had been some
newspaper article
wherein Larry Levenson had
stated and boasted that,
"We don't pay taxes
for Plato's Retreat Inc."
We are definitely
a non-profit corporation.
- Now wait a minute, Larry.
What do you mean a non-profit?
- I'm telling you.
Annie:
Two gentlemen appeared
: in the morning.
I'm half asleep.
And they says,
"We came here
to see the books."
So I gave them
the books.
I didn't know they were
from the Internal Revenue.
And they find out they got
a gold mine in front of them,
that these people have been
cheating their income tax
for three years.
In one year I think
they claimed only $
of taxable income
and paid zero tax.
Davidson:
Ann Grippo reentered
the business room.
She looked over our shoulder
and was peering intently.
She just blurted out
voluntarily,
"we're dead."
I tried to take
the books away from them.
- ( laughs ) Yeah?
- And I did, I took the books.
They didn't keep them.
They weren't allowed
to keep them.
- Correct.
- I took them.
- But now they know
that they have--
- Wait.
- So now you got the books
back in your hand.
- Yeah.
- Did you call Larry?
- When they came in that night
I told them what happened.
- You didn't do nothing
till that night?
- No, till that night.
Hy said to me, "You know,
I covered our tracks here
for three years.
Now we're dead."
There was nothing
I could say or do
except that,
"hey, I'm sorry."
When they came home that night,
they packed their bags
and they were gone.
They were so terrified
that they were gonna
get whacked.
I didn't hear
from them again--
It's funny.
I laugh because
when I saw them again
it was on TV.
Host:
Come on up here, Grippos.
Charlie and Ann Grippo.
Welcome.
What did you yell, Charlie,
when you were running up here?
- We're coming!
- We're coming and we'll
get it right
if it takes us all night.
He went onto some kind
of quiz show in Vegas.
Both:
"Las Vegas Gambit."
- You're from where?
- New York City.
- On vacation?
- Yes.
Charlie:
I don't think we're sitting
there five minutes.
Yeah, just about
five minutes we heard--
We get two cards
and it's blackjack.
- And you get $ , .
- And we win $ .
Or $ , .
She jumps up...
( cheers )
We're gonna
send you the tape.
Funny as hell.
Hysterical.
My baby.
Okay? Awww.
Baby, baby.
( laughing )
And I thought to myself,
"these guys are running
from the mob and here they are
advertising who they--"
- We got a trip
to the Super Bowl.
- A washer-dryer.
And what about the V.C--
not a V.C.R., that--
- A Betamax.
- The Betamax.
- We won a load of stuff.
- A load of stuff.
It was a trial.
On trial was Larry,
Hy, Frank,
the accountant.
Larry took the stand
and tried to explain
the circumstances.
He believed that he was
in a-- a non-profit,
not-for-profit club
and that he truly believed that.
Larry Levenson wasn't
on the stand.
He was on the stage.
Everything was a joke to him,
or so it appeared.
Sudler:
I think the jury, as I recall,
was laughing at him.
The trial was completed.
The jury deliberated
for approximately five
or six hours, I believe.
And came back
with guilty verdicts.
Larry Levenson, Frank Pernice,
Hy Gordon received eight years
plus a fine.
I think an eight-year
jail sentence at that time
for this type
of a tax evasion
was something of a record.
Goldstein:
What f*cked him up was
he was stealing cash.
And he did the dumbest
thing of all.
If any of you ever do cash
or have your own company,
you don't do it
in front of employees,
'cause the guy who's working
for you or the gal who's
working for you,
you're gonna fire them
or yell at them and they're
gonna bring you down.
A lot of cash--
just like Studio !
I don't believe
he was stealing money,
I don't believe that he was
creating books that--
didn't exist.
I mean--
Double books?
Larry was being
King of Swing.
The demeanor at
the defense table changed.
All of a sudden there was
silence upon the announcement
of the verdict.
There was no more affable,
class-clown Larry Levenson.
It was total silence.
Breitbart:
If you break the law, there's
an old saying in the business:
"If ya can't affords the time,
ya don't commits the crime."
True.
# happiness, happiness #
# the greatest gift
that I possess #
# I thank the lord
that I've been blessed... #
Some of you may have been
wondering whatever happened
to Larry Levenson?
He's here in Allenwood,
which is a federal
penitentiary.
It's considered
a level-one prison.
In the trunk we'd have
clothes, suitcases,
golf clubs,
a tennis racket.
We thought it was a place
where you basically just--
you hung out
but you couldn't leave.
The lack of sex--
very rarely discussed
or anything.
Everybody takes care of
that situation by themselves,
you know?
We were in constant
communication.
- And he never complained
about it, right?
- Right.
# the greatest gift
that I possess #
Woman:
"Larry Levenson,
you're okay,
even though
you've gone away.
You got into an awful mess.
You just can't f*ck
with the I.R.S."
Goldstein:
Plato's without Larry was
like Easter
at the Vatican
without the Pope.
The Pope had this tracheotomy
and the Christians are
running amok.
Gillis:
Without Larry,
Plato's took a big dive.
And it wasn't
Plato's anymore.
It wasn't--
it wasn't even
wholesome anymore.
You know?
Because without that
benevolent heart behind it,
it was just
a tacky swingers club,
you know?
Vera:
It required a lot more people
to fill the place.
So they had special parties--
sometimes they would have
kinky nights.
I, uh, use the...
Uh, the p*ssy Propulsion
which is the basis
for all space travel.
Man:
Belle du jour presents
an S&M costume ball
and dinner party.
Do they have to be in costume?
Not necessarily,
but it would be fun.
I'm here every Tuesday
and it starts at : .
And I fulfill
all their fantasies
in S&M...
and all erotic fantasies.
Sounds good to me.
I'm Danny the wonder pony.
I give women pony rides.
I dance in a fashion
that makes them
look and feel like
they're riding a pony,
Except to the music.
And if you've ever watched
a woman ride a horse,
it's very erotic.
( crowd shouting )
He had foxy boxing, which was
girls fighting each other.
Okay, stick around.
Next match coming soon.
Lincoln:
The amusing part of that
is in between each round
the girls would throw up
in a bucket.
There were brothers
and sisters.
Those things weren't as
taboo as they are now.
# if you like what we're doing
when we're doing what
we're doing #
# come on,
clap your hands #
# if you like what we're doing
when we're doing what
we're doing #
# hey-yyyy! #
Stewart:
I remember they had
girls up there--
I think they
were porno stars--
performing,
doing musical feats.
# party party #
# party party... #
Stewart:
And there were men
in the audience
who were masturbating--
if my memory
serves me correct.
Man:
Don't you, on certain levels,
feel that swinging
sort of has shot its load?
That it's a tired phenomena
that dates back more
to the ' s and ' s?
- And for the ' s nobody
really gives a sh*t?
- No, on the contrary.
I think swinging is just now
really coming into its own.
Jeremy:
While Larry was in jail
he did these little
weekly announcements
that were really cute.
What about your job?
- Did you say you worked
in the sewer system?
- Yeah.
We would set up
a tape recorder
that was attached
to the telephone.
( laughs )
He wants to be heard
from prison or no.
- What do you do?
- I test the...
The garbage, what?
Do you eat it?
Yeah, the waste
and everything.
No, the amoeba eats it.
He had senators there
with him. He had
judges there with him.
He had lawyers there with him.
It was not a terrible
place to be.
When that water goes
into the river, you can
actually drink it.
# happiness! #
I got a phone call from a friend
of mine who says, "you're not
going to believe this.
I just heard on the radio
that the King of Swing
is home from prison."
Man:
I just want to say now,
ladies and gentlemen,
that I am more than proud
to present
for the first time
back here in months,
the man responsible
for creating Plato's Retreat,
ladies and gentlemen,
the owner, the creator
of Plato's Retreat,
the King of Swing,
Mr. Larry Levenson.
Come right out, g*ng.
Man # :
Okay, Larry Levenson,
skinnier, his d*ck is bigger.
Here he is, Larry,
back from months
of h*m*.
What's it like to be here
at the place, the dream
you created?
You know,
the person who doesn't
know how to answer you.
- You're such a slob.
- We're here with his lovely
mother Renee.
Renee, how do you feel that
your son broke out of prison
and is here at Plato's today?
I should have expected something
like this from you, Al.
I'm not the least bit surprised.
It's not true you called
the parole board and said,
"keep the b*stard"?
No, you did that, honey.
You were a little mixed up.
# and you try to show #
# your love for me. #
Larry:
I'm thrilled
to no end right now
as I look around and see
you friendly faces,
faces of old friends
and soon-to-be new friends.
To you members that
frequent Plato's,
our club is much more
than a sexual haven.
We are the closest thing
to a family here.
I'm gonna come back
and I'm gonna make this club
better than ever,
and we're gonna have more fun
than ever and it's just
gonna be beautiful.
Larry, we welcome you back
and congratulations
on completing the -month
Allenwood diet.
Everything hits a peak,
so there was a peak
for sexuality.
There was a peak
for disco.
# karma karma karma karma
karma chameleon... #
The club was in a decline
and so was Larry.
Were we distressed about it?
Yes.
Come down and fulfill your
most fantastic fantasies
and stimulate
your wildest dreams.
# oh yes,
it's ladies' night #
# and the feeling's
right... #
Man:
Is it going to be ladies' night
every Monday, do you know?
Ladies' night, : - : ;
then : the men come in.
Vera:
They would have at Plato's
singles nights
to kind of introduce people
who never swung before.
# oh yes,
it's ladies' night #
# oh, what a night,
oh, what a night... #
Vera:
There'd be stripper
after stripper
and the women are getting
wilder and wilder.
Then : , or a couple
of hours later,
the men-- the single men
would be allowed in.
And these guys were
horny f*ck.
Then what they'd do though,
they'd have to have
a lot more girls
that would be like girls
that would be hired.
Hanson:
But you couldn't
necessarily separate
the prostit*tes
from the wives
because the wives were
kind of doing themselves up
like prostit*tes often.
There was coke everywhere.
And everybody used it
to stay awake,
to keep going, for this,
that and the other thing,
to feel better.
Stay up, keep going,
Don't stop.
I'm gonna have fun.
Goldstein:
Prostitution was the tail
that wagged the dog.
Because I believe
%- % of the girls there
every night,
with their, quote, date,
were hookers.
And I know that to be a fact
because the hookers
advertised in "screw."
Stewart:
I remember I met
an African-American woman
and we went into the back
and we went into one
of the rooms
and the next thing she stuck
her hand out and she wanted
money from me.
And I just didn't
have it, you know?
She said, "Well, I'm sorry."
There was just this--
a sense of impending doom.
But I don't know how much
we talked about it.
It lost the warmth.
And that wasn't, I think,
just the steam
rising off of all that water
they had going in there.
It was moving towards
that point in the ' s
when sex was terrifying.
( "Dream Weaver" playing )
# I've just closed
my eyes again... #
Narrator:
A*DS reduces the number
of helper cells in the blood.
Therefore the body has no way
of either detecting
or attacking
certain infections.
# driver, take away
my worries of today... #
When A*DS first hit,
nobody even knew
what it was yet.
No one quite knew how
it was transmitted.
- No one knew how
to have safe sex.
- # dream Weaver #
# I believe you can get me
through the night... #
The people who cared
about their lives stopped
going to sex clubs.
And so you got a more
hardcore, self-destructive
- group of people.
- # Dream Weaver. #
All this talk about A*DS,
aren't you worried about it?
Being with so many
different men?
Larry, I've never
heard of a woman that
has contacted A*DS
through sexual intercourse.
I went from one extreme
to the other,
saying "this is not something
you get a shot for,
or take a pill for.
This is your life.
- And you need to rethink
your priorities in life."
- ( heart beating )
And I say god was kind
and I was spared.
Some other people
were not that lucky.
That % of the A*DS cases
are in h*m*,
this is put out
by the State of New York,
Dr. Axelrod.
- ( man ranting on phone )
- Wait, let me--
let me finish.
Sir-- sir, let me finish.
Danny:
It was like a ghost town.
For about days,
it was like nobody.
Everybody was just scared.
They didn't even know
if you could get it
mouth to mouth.
Reporter:
The St. Marks Bathhouse
was shut down
after undercover inspectors
reported that they had observed
acts of high-risk
sexual activity
involving
more than people.
Ronald Reagan:
Only medical science
can ever truly defeat A*DS.
I think that Koch,
who I admired,
wanted to bust down
on the g*y clubs.
To make things even,
he busted down on Plato's.
Man on phone:
They said that A*DS did
go through Plato's Retreat.
No, they came down
and interviewed me.
And that's all they did.
And we found out since
that with the smell of chlorine
in the air at Plato's Retreat,
the A*DS virus does not
have a chance.
It just happens to be
a factual thing.
Doron Gopstein:
One of the key parts
of the effort would be
to collect evidence,
which if it was necessary,
if it became necessary
to seek to close a place down,
this is the kind of evidence
that would hold up in court.
Larry had signs posted.
And he has his security that
are walking around actually
telling people,
"Wait till this little
thing is over with.
But right now,
we can't allow a**l sex,
we can't allow oral sex
on a guy."
The law prohibits a**l sex
and fellatio.
- Excuse me?
- You can have
sexual intercourse
legally
on Plato's premises.
Hello?
Some of the inspectors
were so...
uh, overwhelmed--
distressed
by what they saw
that they needed
actually counseling
and counseling
was provided.
"Government of the people,
for the people
and by the people should
not perish from this earth."
Now Mr. Koch is trying
to tell me that the people
have nothing to do
with government.
It's like a w*r.
You're fighting the city.
Man on phone:
I want to talk to
the fat guy on the right.
There are two fat guys here.
Which one?
On the right?
Go ahead, fat guy.
- What do you have to say?
- Do you suck?
Oh, you're a moron.
Good evening.
Plato's Retreat is
the latest casualty
in New York's w*r
on dangerous sex.
Gopstein:
Inspectors would come in
and they described what to us
seemed like prostitution
activities.
Reporter:
In its prime, thousands
of heterosexual couples
flocked to Plato's Retreat.
But the party came to a halt
at the well-known nightclub.
Minutes before its
scheduled opening,
city officials closed the venue
on charges of prostitution.
The city knows as
everybody else knows
we never allowed prostitution
on our premises,
and I always say
that we never will.
Gopstein:
So we went in there
and the judge signed
the preliminary injunction.
It went to an appellate court
and the appellate court
changed the temporary
closing order.
- Hello, you're on the air.
- Yeah, hi.
Um, can you tell me what
the status of the club
is right now?
And, um... is it still closed
or what are they doing
at this point?
- At Plato's, you mean, sir?
- Yes, sir.
Plato's Retreat is now open.
( feedback squeals )
The place is reopened
and we send inspectors
in there again.
And within
a short period of time,
the inspectors are coming back
and they're saying,
"forget about prostitution now.
We're seeing high-risk
sexual activities."
Starting tonight
for the next year,
all profits made
by Plato's Retreat,
will be donated
to A*DS research.
Two weeks later,
New Year's Eve, boof!
We get closed for good.
Tonight the city closed
Plato's Retreat, that notorious
heterosexual sex club
on Manhattan's West Side.
Larry:
Plato's Retreat is
more than just a club.
It's an institution.
It's a monument to
sexual freedom.
And they set us back
years.
Plato's was then closed
on December st.
And actually, it never
reopened after that.
I remember driving up at :
and seeing the door padlocked
with the police tape
on it.
And...
there was no notice,
no nothing.
They didn't tell anyone
that we're going to be
closing you down.
They just came
on New Year's Eve.
I think it was
to spank them.
Larry's really really upset.
He's almost holding back tears.
You could see it.
Because now he knows that
the city just crippled him
and he's looking at the future.
He goes, "I can't
stay open, Ron.
The money I made
from New Year's Eve was going
to keep me going with rent."
Rise and Fall
of the Roman Empire.
Everything fell apart:
All the connections,
the phone calls--
everything stopped.
We have no
meeting ground anymore.
We have no home
for the family anymore.
So everybody takes off
to different areas.
Everybody goes back
to real life.
From what I could see,
most clubs in Manhattan
lasted a few years.
They'd be really hot,
maybe six, eight, years
and then they'd close down.
And people were on
to the new club.
I think Plato's kind of died
a natural death actually.
It might have had
a little help.
It was a different era then
with everything that was
going on.
A place like that...
It wasn't going to last anyway.
A lot of people...
Just couldn't--
don't like the lifestyle
so they put it down,
like our mayors
and our governors.
But meanwhile
they're the ones in here.
It was like, "We should
all sing 'Old Lang Sone'--"
"Old Lang..."
- Man: "Syne."
- Whatever.
"--'Old Lang whatever.'"
After the club closed
I think that's when it
took him over completely.
I think that's
when Larry really
fell into hard times--
No finances.
Tonight we're talking
with Larry Levenson.
Larry was the owner
of Plato's Retreat.
Plato's Retreat was
the largest swing club
in New York.
Goldstein:
He was the original
prototype swinger.
That was his life.
That was why he started
the club.
And basically the club ended
because of that narcissism.
You start believing it and you
think you can do no wrong
and you're gonna
beat the system.
Larry was depressed.
And I'd visit him in his
apartment in Brooklyn
and he'd be doing
crack cocaine.
And he's sweating--
"Larry, you're sweating
like a pig.
It doesn't look like
you're having fun."
He goes, "trust me.
It's a nice feeling and it
takes away the pain."
He went to parents
without partners and he
was enjoying that
and meeting lots
of different people.
And he did meet
Marilyn there.
- I just got engaged
last week.
- Mazel tov.
- A beautiful young lady, yeah.
- Mazel tov.
- Yeah, I'm very happy.
- And she's sweet woman.
She is wonderful.
And the whole point is
what do I want to do
with my life?
Don't know how long
it was good.
I do remember one incident where
he asked me to go to the house
and pick up a check.
He got divorced again,
so now...
now he's back to being single
and he's back in Brooklyn again.
Remember he was
driving a cab?
He was driving a cab,
I remember that.
# I still get
that same old feeling #
# tearing at
this heart of mine... #
Nina:
I hailed a yellow cab.
I got in.
and sometimes I have a habit
of looking at the hack license.
When my dad had the club,
he had all the friends.
Everybody wanted
to hang out with him.
Then when he didn't have
the club, they were gone.
I saw the name Larry Levenson.
And I kept saying,
"Larry Levenson, Larry Levenson?
That's the man
who owned Plato's."
You have to pick and choose
who your friends are.
And you have to stay grounded.
I think my dad was
never grounded.
Larry:
I thought that we were
a great family.
And I really believed,
truly,
that we were a community.
But I guess
I was mistaken.
It was me...
( laughs )
that felt that.
I was the king.
One day he invited us
to Brooklyn to see his house.
And he lived down
in the basement because...
The brick building,
he rented upstairs--
I guess the two floors.
And I was shocked the way
he lives down in the basement
with cats and everything.
It both-- my mind--
how could he live
in a basement?
Then he took us out
for a nice lobster dinner.
He had just gone
through heart surgery.
He was in the hospital.
We were living down here.
He had had a heart attack.
He was in the intensive
care unit.
I brought some flowers
for his nurses.
He seemed in good spirits.
When I heard that
Larry Levenson
died from a heart attack
and that he'd become
a cab driver
I just thought, "wow,
that was just so hard
to reconcile
that the king
of Plato's Retreat
Could end up like
a broken-down old hack."
I just remember getting a phone
call that Larry's passed away.
I was pretty miserable
for quite a while. It was one
of the ones that really hurt.
When Larry started Plato's,
We were still
in that period where
sex wasn't just sex
and pleasure,
it was also about
kind of revolution,
a breaking with the past.
I think the only difference
between Larry and many men
in our society
and culture is that Larry didn't
hesitate to talk about it
and tell the truth about it,
how he actually felt.
I wonder how many men
hide how they really
feel about sex.
Or how many men would have
the courage to say
"I want to do them all"?
Every time I drive by the club,
even to this day,
I still feel the magic.
Look at it, the lights
are still here.
Oh, there's disco lights
over there.
The sprinkler system
was here.
There's our fan,
still up there to this day.
Whatever Frankie built,
it's still there.
So... amazing.
Dodson:
One thing about
getting older
is that you don't want
to look back and say
"Wow, really I'm sorry
I didn't do that.
I really am sorry
I missed that.
I really am sorry I didn't
take advantage of that."
I'm an old lady
with no regrets,
because I'll tell you:
Those-- that period was
very special.
It was the same
routine every night
but different bodies.
Different sizes.
Tall, short--
It was, you know,
a sight to see...
Every night.
- ( camera clicks )
- Breitbart: Somehow
whenever anybody
discusses Plato's Retreat,
they do it with a smile
on their face.
If anybody was there,
they're happy.
If anybody wasn't there,
they're only sorry
that they didn't get
an opportunity to go there
and see it.
( camera clicks )
Karen:
It was very exciting
to a lot of people.
And when we finally
caught up with it,
we were amused by it
as well.
I'm-- I'm really glad I went.
I'm glad to have the experience
of having gone.
Just as I'm glad
that I got to the top
of the World Trade Center
once.
Even to today people say
things to me:
"I knew your father.
I remember your father."
Okay, some people,
they have no memories.
They had a boring normal...
Let's say everyday-straight
kind of life.
I've led
a different kind of life.
I've had that life
and my life changed...
By going to Plato's...
by getting into open sex.
These are things that you
never thought you would
ever do in life.
You didn't even
think about it.
So a lot of people,
they don't have those memories.
I have those memories.
I can see the faces
in front of me now.
Nina:
It was good for me.
it was good for me.
It was great for me.
Is Larry still around,
by the way?
- Are you guys talking to Larry?
- Man: He passed away in ' .
- He passed away?
- Yeah.
- He was only about .
- .
Wow.
( pop music playing )
# oh, how happy #
# you have made me #
# oh, how happy #
# you have made me #
# I have kissed
your lips #
# a thousand times #
# and more times
than I can count #
# I have called you mine #
# you have stood... #
Karen:
I tried to hide the fact
That Larry Levenson
was my brother.
after all, my name
was Karen Posner.
It wasn't too difficult,
I thought, to keep it a secret.
But of course everybody knew
because of the car showing up
at the house
and Larry marching into all
of our backyard barbecues.
I saw people getting down
in various stages.
Big deal.
What did you expect?
Where do you expect babies
come from?
I wouldn't just take
my clothes off and just
walk around like that.
You know?
Have I done anything there?
I really can't talk
about that... if I've ever
done anything there.
What is the difference
between parsley and p*ssy?
He says, "What is
the difference?"
I says,
"Well, who eats parsley?"
One of Larry's ideas
was that he
seriously believed
that he could have sex
with every single woman
in New York and I was
going to help him do it.
What do you say
to something like that?
We laugh.
That's what
keeps a marriage
going sometimes
is laughter.
I mean he makes me laugh,
I make him laugh.
- And now we have a new life.
- Uh uh uh!
Yeah, but now we got
a new life.
- But uh uh uh.
- No, home.
Oh yeah.
Our poker life.
Now we can't wait
to get back to Vegas
in December.
Go ahead.
What else?
#...Made me #
# you have made me #
# you have made me #
# you have made me. #
( instrumental music playing )
Welcome to our World! Where we serve you cookies to ensure you get the best viewing experience on our site.
Did you know that you can remove censorship board-wide, use our advanced search functions, be notified when new content is posted, join our memberships, set episodes to show in any order you want & more if you are logged into your account?
Register or sign in here: ucp.php?mode=register
Did you know that you can remove censorship board-wide, use our advanced search functions, be notified when new content is posted, join our memberships, set episodes to show in any order you want & more if you are logged into your account?
Register or sign in here: ucp.php?mode=register