01x01 - Part One: Perception

[bunniefuu]

[birds chirping]

[raven crows]

[Mary] I grew up here

on Hidden Valley Road

on the outskirts
of Colorado Springs.

It looks
like such a peaceful place,

but things aren't always
as they seem.

I was the youngest
of 12 children.

From the outside,

our family looked
picture perfect.

And that's just how
our parents wanted it.

But behind closed doors,
it was another story.

And it tore our family apart.

My brothers were
turning into something

none of us understood.

As a child, I thought--

I thought they'd been
taken over by demons.

The violence they unleashed
was terrifying.

m*rder, r*pe,

suicide.

For those of us that survived,

we had to watch

as six of my brothers were
consumed by madness.

In the end,

the consequences would consume

us all.

[Daniel] Where schizophrenia
is diagnosed

between age 17 and 24.

[Mark] It's a tragic story.

To be part
of the Galvin family is

to be part of a tragedy.

[woman]
This mutation was present

in every person in that family
who had schizophrenia.

[Daniel] They might
hear voices.

They can command them
to do things.

[echoing] C ommand them
to do things.

[Mary] Throwing
a cat into a bonfire.

Dismembered a dog
in the bathtub.

[man] This family
gave us hope

that there might be a chance
to cure schizophrenia.

[woman] He shot her first,
and then he shot himself.

[Richard] Well,
it started to fall apart.

My brothers were falling ill.

They were losing their minds.

[echoes] They were
losing their minds.

These are all
the family photos. There's...

boxes and boxes of them.

And they're quite heavy.

I'm Mary Christine Galvin,

which my mother always said

was named after Mary,
the mother of Christ.

I was born
into this large
Irish Catholic family.

I was the youngest
of 12 children,

10 boys, and two girls.

Don, Jim, John,
Brian, Michael,

Richard,

Joseph, Mark, Matthew,
Peter, Margaret, and Mary.

Six of my brothers,

diagnosed schizophrenics.

My mom describes
that she saw signs,

but couldn't
really identify in her...

heart and mind
what was going on.

There was something
going on with Jim.

Peter breaking all the windows
in the house.

Donald,

he dismembered a dog
in the bathtub at home.

It was like a snowball effect,

my parents blaming themselves.

There was so much despair

and so much hopelessness

and so much confusion.

I didn't find out
until much later as an adult,

maybe in my 20s.

Brian had m*rder*d
his girlfriend

and committed suicide.

I remember my mother
just being...

distraught.

My parents,

I don't think they knew
what to make of it.

Never
in their worst nightmares

would they have believed
such a thing could happen.

Their children, young men
that are so promising,

to end up
in a mental hospital.

...after Donald was born.

These are early pictures

of my parents' relationship.

They met at a swim meet.

She jumped the g*n

and he had to go
in the water after her.

Then he asked her out
on their first date.

They went to see
The Wizard of Oz.

And she said they skipped
all the way home, singing

"We're off to see the wizard."

This is their wedding day.

They eloped.

But our parents never told us
they had eloped.

They told us
about the grand wedding

they had in New York
at the rectory.

But these are
from Southern California

when they eloped,
'cause my mom was pregnant.

It was a family secret, yes.

And he was going to w*r.

So they took the train

from New York
to Southern California,

where he was getting ready
to ship off for World w*r II.

So he's in his whites,

his Navy whites.

Neither set of families were
terribly happy

because she was,
you know, Irish Protestant

and he was Irish Catholic.

And then at some point,
she converted to Catholicism.

And it was because
my father said

it would help their marriage,

that they could then
bring their children up

in the same religion.

It would make them closer
as a family.

[interviewer] John,
come take a seat.

[John] My mother was
a wonderful woman.

She always had
our interests at heart,

made sure we had
piano lessons.

The house was
always full of music.

[violin music playing]

[John] We would listen
to classical music

all the time, and...

she would point out
how to listen to the music.

She'd say, "Oh, do you hear
the French horns,"

or "Do you hear the oboe?"

She liked to listen
to Verdi operas,

Mozart operas,

and she loved to be involved,
and she loved to sing.

She grew up in New York,

and her mother took her

to the Metropolitan Opera
in New York City,

and she fell in love with it.

When my father joined
the Air Force,

he moved to Colorado Springs
from New York.

I think my mother was
probably very anxious

about what kind of culture
she would find

in Colorado Springs.

[Mary] The Air Force base was
supposed to be

on Long Island,

and then
they suddenly changed it

to Colorado Springs.

My dad had signed on thinking

they were gonna stay
in New York,

and then they ended up
in Colorado Springs.

My mother hated it.

This was their first home.

She said it was a dump.

Here's four boys.
So, young Don,

and that would
have been Jim, John,

and Brian was a baby here.

September 1951,

baby Brian's approximately
three weeks old here.

The Catholic Church believed
in large families

to keep the faith going.

And so I think
my parents just embraced that.

They were doing
their Catholic duty.

Don and Jim and John

and Brian

and Richard

and Robert Michael
and Joseph, as a baby.

And my dad's
in his uniform there.

[Richard] I was
always called Number 6.

Occasionally they would
call me by my name,

but I was Number 6.

I was right in the middle
of 12.

[Richard] Hello.

[exhales] How are you?

I was a little boy growing up
with older brothers.

We played baseball
and did our things together

and hockey and tennis
and swam and hiked

and camped
and lived a normal life.

But it started to fall apart.

I mean, people were
getting sick.

The boys, my brothers,
were falling ill.

They were losing their minds
to schizophrenia.

[Mary] Mark was
the peacekeeper.

If anyone could deescalate
a situation, it was Mark.

'Cause he was a mathematician
and a great chess player,

and he always got
excellent grades.

He was one
of the better students

in our family.

[Mark] I'm in the middle
of the youngest five boys.

Richard and Joseph are
the older two,

and Matthew and Peter are
the younger two.

I lived
on the Air Force Academy base

until I was five years old.

So I attended
kindergarten there.

Dad was a brilliant guy.

As
a political science professor,

he taught
Soviet foreign policy

to the cadets
back in the Cold w*r era.

[TV reporter] Among the more
significant achievements

of our recent national history

is the establishment
of this leadership laboratory

in Colorado.

It is called

the United States
Air Force Academy.

[marching band music playing]

[John] When my father started
teaching at the Academy,

we moved out onto the base.

They house you by rank,
so you get your colonels,

they're up on one end,

and then you go down
to the majors,

you're in the middle,
and then you have

the non-commissioned officers
down south further.

The Officers Club had

swimming pools
and tennis courts.

In the summertime,
we would spend the whole day

at the swimming pool
and playing tennis.

But all the kids went
to school together.

I think my parents were
a little dismayed

that I spent so much time

with non-commissioned
officers' kids.

[laughs]

But they were my friends,

and so we did
a lot of things together.

[Richard] Back then it was,
you know, military officer,

and you were trying
to get a leg up

in the military hierarchy,
of the ladder system.

They were climbing the ladder.

And Dad was just
a looked-upon figure

by the academy staff,

because he was in charge
of the falconry program,

and that was their mascot.

That was a big deal.

We had to go
train falcons with him

and feed them beef heart
and chop it up

and clean the newspapers
and clean up the pen.

[John] We went
through training.

Dad had set one on my head

and then he'd walk back
so many paces

and bait his glove

and have the bird fly
to his glove

and we did that

endlessly, for hours.

[Mary] I think the falconry
at the Air Force Academy made

my mother feel special,

something they were known for.

I think that's
what my mom liked about it.

It was unusual.

And for my dad, it was
just a fun sport

that he got to do
with his boys.

[Mark] Arnold Hall was

the concert venue
for the Air Force Academy.

You know, that was
a photo taken

right after our 10th boy
was born.

[Richard] ...Was
the Von Trapp family.

That's what
they used to call us.

Sound of Music came out.

I'll never forget
Mom getting us all

in the Volkswagen van.

And I bet if
we didn't see it 10 times,

we saw it 20.

And that's what
she wanted us to be,

is that Von Trapp family.

[Mark] We all booed

when Margaret came home
from the hospital.

[laughs]

All 10 of us boys sent
my mom to tears.

Our quarterback turned out
to be a cheerleader.

Margaret, beautiful
little girl growing up.

This is the pride
and joy of mother.

And she was very smart,
very talented, good kid.

Didn't know anything was
going on until later in life

when I heard about the stories
of brother Jim.

Mary was the second fiddle
to Margaret.

She was, you know, "Okay,

I got my pride
and joy in Margaret,

and then along came Mary."

[Mary] People would say,
"Why do you have
so many children?"

And my parents would say,

"Well, we wouldn't
have the girls."

Margaret always thought
it was mean,

but my mom used to say,

"The roses after
all the thorns."

So she called
the boys the thorns

and Margaret and I the roses.

[Mark] There were
three acres of land,

trees and shrubs,

and things surrounding
the property.

It was a beautiful setting.

[John] Not a lot of privacy

with so many siblings living
in the same house.

Four bedrooms upstairs
and two baths.

Downstairs you had a bathroom

and a bedroom
off the stairway,

but that was an open room.
There was no door.

And then the garage...

got turned into
another bedroom.

[Mary] Chaotic, but to me,
it was just normal.

"Mom, Mom, Mom, Mom,
Peter hit me, Mom.

Margaret's not
being nice to me, Mom."

I'm guessing she got that
from everybody.

She'd always go,
"Tattletale...

your tongue will be split

and all the dogs in town
will have a little bit."

'Cause she just hated
tattletaling,

'cause how could you
keep up with it?

You couldn't possibly
be interfering

in every... conflict
12 children had.

She'd say, "Go resolve it."

[Mark] Mom was
definitely a perfectionist

when it came to housecleaning.

All the boys were
assigned tasks,

whether it was
sweeping the floor one day,

or doing the dishes
the next day,

or cleaning the bathrooms
another day, or vacuuming.

It was the white glove test,
you know. [chuckles]

If it wasn't clean,

[clears throat] she would
let you know

and you'd do it over.

[John] To my mother,
social status was important.

I don't think
so much to my father,

but I think
he went along with it.

She always liked to rub elbows

or rub shoulders
with famous people,

famous artists,
musicians, dancers,

anyone in the arts.

[Mary] She didn't like
the military wives.

They didn't listen to opera.

[laughs] Military wives.

And she had trouble
finding the culture

that she was looking for.

The church became a place

where there were levels
of importance,

kind of a caste system
in and of itself.

The people that were
more ingratiated

with the priests...

were elevated in some way.

It gave my mother
some level of importance

that the priest would
come to our home.

And I vaguely remember
the priest coming.

It was a big to-do.

"Oh, Father Freudenstein is
coming.

We need to get
everything tidied up."

And make sure she had
her tea on.

He would show up at the door
with records for her.

He would bring her
opera records

to listen to,

and-- as a gift...

you know, to her.

[John] I was not
particularly fond of him,

and I kind of distanced myself
from him.

It's like a instinct.

The only thing I have now is

from what I heard
from my brothers about him,

the fact that he became
physically or sexually a*usive

towards
my oldest brother, Don.

[Mary] Everything seemed
so picture perfect.

And then this other thing was
happening at...

the same time.

I mean, it just
unraveled so fast.

It was,

how could this possibly be
happening to them?

They'd done everything right.

[John] Donald, he was
my father's favorite for sure.

He was a great athlete.

Their football team took state
in his senior year.

Got into the state finals
in wrestling.

He played hockey.

He was an all-around athlete.

And I kind of admired that
when I was younger,

looking up to him.

[Mary] So these are...

pictures of Donald.

My parents sort of
elevated him

in our family status.

He was sort of the...

could-do-no-wrong, perfect boy

who, you know,
got good grades,

handsome, and dated
the General's daughter.

There he is, in high school,

track and field.

It seemed like everybody
in the family followed suit.

Jim was an athlete.

I remember him
playing football.

Highlight moment,

blocked a punt
and scored a touchdown.

[Mary] Jim, he was always
in competition

with Don.

From the time
they were little, you know,

who was better at baseball,

who was a better swimmer,
who could run faster,

who could jump higher,
who, you know, I think--

and Donald was
always superior. He was older.

That really bothered Jim,

that he was always
sort of felt slighted

or that he wasn't good enough,

that my parents loved
Don more.

[John] The first time
I recognized

that Donald was
my father's favorite,

I was about 12 years old.

And he would have been,
you know, five years older.

And he became violent.

I became his punching bag.

He would have a couple
of my brothers hold me

so he could take swings at me.

And, you know, I had no way
to defend myself.

And so I was terrified
of him after that.

I told my parents about it,

and...

my father ceased
to believe anything I said,

it seemed like, about Donald.

If I would talk about Donald,

it was like-- it just got
shoved to the side.

It was not believable.

So you endured what you could,

and then you avoided
what you could.

And I'm not
the only one in the family

that suffered that way.

[Mark] When I was a child,

I would wait on top
of the hill opposite my home

for my mother to come home.

I would wait for her
until her car pulled up.

I was afraid of being beaten
by my brothers.

That was not something
that's normal

for a child to experience.

You know?

They would, uh...

make me hold encyclopedias
in my arms

and hit me in the stomach
and tell me not to drop them.

Or even sometimes
they would...

pour Tabasco sauce
on my tongue

or [grimaces]
make me eat cat food.

It's like the fear of this,

and it was always something
that was with me every day.

I was always
breaking up the fights

between the older brothers
and the younger ones.

Dad used to call me Kissinger,

the diplomatic one.

So I was always trying
to make peace in the family.

There was a lot of tension

between John and Jim
and Don, always fighting.

The one I'll never forget
is at Woodmen Valley.

Don and Jim started fighting
in the house.

Of course, Mother said,

"Get out of the house
if you're going to fight."

Donald started running
after Jim down the road,

Hidden Valley Road.

And I'll never forget
looking down the road

with my mom and watching him.

And Donald took a swing

and lifted my brother up
off the ground.

I've never seen anybody
get hit so hard in my life.

[Mark] You know, I don't know

if some of this
had anything to do

with Donald's
mental health issues already,

even though they weren't
diagnosed yet.

It could be
that even as a younger boy,

he had some mental issues

that caused him to behave
toward us like he did.

[Richard] Donald met
Jean in college

and brought her home
and told the family

that he's going
to get married.

So we were all happy for him.

They were getting married,
they were in college.

Donald was
a straight-A student,

I understood.

Everybody was happy.

Jean was just
a very nice lady,

big, tall, strong woman.

She was a rancher's daughter,

you know, very tough-minded.

I can only tell you
what is hearsay.

Uh, again,
I didn't know them very well,

but, uh...

Don, um, wanted
to have a family.

Jean didn't.

Um, Jean wanted to pursue
her doctoral degree.

Don wanted to start a family.

I think that was
a huge rift between them.

Might have tipped
the scales on Donald

as far as his mental illness.

I'm not sure
it made any difference,

but probably did.

[Mark] Donald,
he went away to college

when I was... six.

Didn't really see him much

in the next several years
until he came home.

And by then, he was, uh,

very much in psychotic states
from time to time.

[Mary] My first memory
of Donald is

his coming home

from college

and being very,
very upset and crying.

[dog barks distantly]

[Mary] In my bedroom,
being adjacent to my parents,

and there being a lot
of yelling and screaming

and commotion
and him on his knees.

saying, "What's wrong with me,
what's wrong with me,

what's wrong with me?
Help me, please help me."

Everyone was awake
in the house,

and "What's going on,
what's going on?"

Donald was screaming
and yelling

at everybody in the house
to please get down,

that there's somebody outside
that's trying to hurt us.

My mother, you know, saying,

"Oh, dear God,
what is going on?

Is he on drugs?"

Get the younger children
out of the environment,

where my father was
trying to--

to calm him down.

-[ambulance wailing]
-[dog barks in distance]

[Mary] This is
Donald's records

from Colorado State University
Student Health Services.

"The student is
the oldest of 12 children,

ten boys, two girls.

He's been
self-supporting in school.

He gave up an apartment

to save expenses

and is living
in an old fruit cellar

which he described as,

'Large enough
to hold his mattress.'

He has no water.

In past two weeks,
has run through bonfire,

put cord around his neck,
turned on gas,

and even gone
to a funeral home

to price caskets.

Very sadistic k*lling of a cat

and fantasies of k*lling
a person at a football game.

Fear, realistic at the time

that he had k*lled
an instructor.

Dr. Oxman,
a psychiatrist, predicted

he was dangerous to others."

And then it says,

"Possible
schizophrenic reaction.

Recommendation,
immediate hospitalization

for evaluation
and prescription."

Being admitted to...

a state mental hospital
when your child is

however old he is, 20, 21,

I mean, I think of that now.
My son is 22.

And what would that
emotionally feel like

to be told

that your son is schizophrenic

and that he needs
to be sent to a place

that everyone knew

was horrific.

[TV reporter] For years,
what was called insanity

was regarded as a problem
for each state to solve

as best it could.

In nearly
all state mental hospitals,

little more
than custodial care
was provided.

Few who were committed
could hope

to return to society.

Many, whose illnesses
were comparatively mild
at the start,

became increasingly worse

until all hope
of recovery vanished.

[Daniel] There were
dark chapters

in the history of treatment
of psychiatric patients.

Castration was common,

taking out people's pancreas.

Lobotomy was a way
of cutting into the brain

and breaking up

fibers that connect cells
in the brain to each other.

[TV reporter] Operations
can be performed

under local anesthesia

if the patient is
sufficiently cooperative.

[Daniel] Surgeons would
cut a hole in your skull,

introduce a knife
into that hole,

and then go like this
with the knife

to cut the fibers

in the frontal lobe
of your brain.

And that became
a very popular procedure

in certain institutions.

And the frontal lobe is
the part of your brain

that learns from experience,

that uses judgment.

It's the executive
of your brain.

When you break up
the frontal lobe's connection

to the rest of the brain,

you've obviously reduced
somebody's capacity

to exercise all those
frontal lobe functions,

but you've made them
much more docile.

[Matthew] For Don's mom,

I just can't imagine--
just the, um-- the shock,

the shame, and the fear
that Mimi experienced,

and her husband as well,

that to have a son

whom you love and you've seen

this very handsome,
beautiful son,

and now you're having

to have him in an institution.

I think it would
have been horrifying.

[Mary] Well, here, I mean,
he's being diagnosed

with schizophrenia,

and he's being recommended
immediate hospitalization.

And I can't read the date,

but I'm assuming-- well, it's
different handwriting. So...

um, "Patient was
not admitted...

per instructions,

but has been treated
as an outpatient

at the Air Force
Academy Hospital."

So this is the letter from...

the Department
of the Air Force.

[Mary reading]

That's unbelievable.

[chuckles]

My father was probably trying

to use his influence

to keep Don in school.

I think my parents were like,

"Well, shape up
and get on with it."

Somehow, I think
they were wishing

or hoping or praying

that this would be
a temporary situation

that he would somehow outgrow.

And if he just stuck
with his studies,

that he would be okay.

Certainly, sending him
to Pueblo

to a psychiatric hospital

would have admitted defeat.

They would have had
to accept the diagnosis

that he was,
in fact, schizophrenic.

Were my parents so blind

to what was going on with him?

Were they so trying
to ignore it or...

pray it away?

Whatever they were doing
with this information...

was putting somebody else
in danger.

[Mark] You know,
when Donald first came home

from college,

they weren't seeking
treatments for him

at the time, I don't believe.

They were just trying
to... keep him home

and take care of him
the best they could, and...

hopefully that
that wouldn't disrupt

the rest
of the family too much.

[Richard] They did
the best they could

under the circumstances.

What else were they
going to do but just

try to minimize
the exposure of the illness,

so they could maintain
their status, if you will,

with the... um,

with the governors

and people they were
dealing with.

They were dealing
at a very high level

in our society.

My father, he was a--
what I call an overachiever,

doing too many--

too much for most people
to even comprehend.

He actually wrote a book
about American politics,

and he got
his doctorate degree.

That was a proud moment,
I suppose.

And I was proud of him
for doing that.

Having a big family
and going to school

and [chuckling] doing
your doctoral degree?

That doesn't happen
very often.

That's pretty rare, I think.

We ordered
Kentucky Fried Chicken.

[laughs]

Had a picnic out
on the lawn and...

uh, in front
of the Boulder Library.

Yeah, I can remember that day.

It was a nice day.

It was a good day.

But...

probably
no more family gatherings

that were as nice after that.

After Dad's graduation,

this is 1969,

so I would say
shortly after that was

when Donald really became
seriously ill.

[indistinct
overlapping whispering]

[Mary] I was maybe three
or four years old.

I remember Don being psychotic

and it being scary.

He paced, constantly,

constantly paced,
and paced, and paced,

and paced, and spoke--
talked to himself, just...

[indistinct
overlapping whispering]

[Mary] Hours, and hours,
and hours, and hours on end,

he paced
and talked to himself.

He's, I think,
believed himself to be

a prophet.

He was dressed in these robes,
this brown sheet.

He created these rituals
around his life.

[Richard]
The biblical babbling,
I called it,

it was just always relating
everything to the Bible.

Everything that went on
in the world was

related to the Bible somehow.

He was just trying to...

stay in a reality
of some sort.

[indistinct
overlapping whispering]

[Richard] I can remember
Dad lecturing him.

He would take him up
into his bedroom
and lecture him,

but you could hear it
through the house.

You know,
"Why are you doing this?

Why are you going
to the school

in a priest robe?

What are you doing?

You're embarrassing
his family."

[Mark] I certainly wouldn't
want to be seen

in public with him

at the time, you know,

for afraid he would do
something crazy.

None of my friends knew

that I had
a mentally ill brother.

It was not something
that we talked about.

It was my dad's philosophy

that you don't air
your dirty linen in public.

Mom felt the same way.

[John] To me, this would be
the family shame,

you know.

My father was always about...

trying to keep
a family reputation,

and you're known
by the company you keep.

And so I think he was afraid

that the stigma of...

schizophrenia,

anybody finding out about it,

would affect...

what he did.

[Mary] Don was the bad guy,
though, in the family.

He was the one that was
causing so much trouble.

And my mother relied on Jim

to get the younger children
out of the house.

So then, while we were
with him,

Jim would just go on and on.

He even gave him
a name...

"Oh, it's...again."

Jim was very cruel,
very cruel.

I was unaware, as a child,

Jim was mentally ill.

I had no...

understanding or indication

that he had sought treatment

and that my parents had
helped him get treatment.

And in retrospect,
of course, you know,

he was quite ill.

[Mark] The dynamics started
changing in the family.

I remember Dad
and Donald getting

into fisticuffs.

Nobody ever challenged Dad
up until Donald,

and Donald was stronger.

I don't know how long
they fought for, but...

it was a serious fight.

Bodies crashing
to the ground, wrestling,

and fists being thrown,
and...

my brother, Donald, won.

And I do remember
Donald coming after
my mother...

physically a few times.

And it always was
probably around...

her being the one
that told him

to take his medications.

"Have you taken
your medications?"

And Donald would say,
"Screw you.

I'm not taking that stuff."

And my mother would say,
"Yes, you are."

And he'd say, "No, I'm not."

And so a conflict would ensue.

[Richard] There was a lot
of bad times for Mom

and I don't know
how she did it,

come to think about it,

and just how Donald stayed
in that home with her

just so he wouldn't have
to spend his life

in a mental hospital.

I remember one in particular

where my father
and Donald were wrestling.

And I remember there was
this mushroom.

It was crystal.

I remember that being
picked up and used as--

and that could
k*ll someone easily.

It was a heavy object.

And I remember
being terrified that...

Donald was going
to k*ll my father

because my father was

trying to protect my mother
from Donald.

[indistinct overlapping
whispering]

[Mary] Often, Donald's anguish

was centered around
his wife having left him.

And...

he was...

obsessed--

absolutely obsessed
with finding Jean.

And I would guess
she probably had to...

find a way
to get away from him

where he couldn't
necessarily find her.

[door opens]

And I remember my parents
getting a phone call

from the police.

"10.20 a.m.,
Donald Kenyon Galvin, 24,

was booked
for protective custody

in connection
with an alleged
homicide attempt.

Mixed acid and cyanide

and held his wife
and himself in the room.

He had little insight

and gave little feeling

about the seriousness
of his actions.

He is psychotic and that he is
losing control and insight,

is dangerous to himself
and the community."

[indistinct
overlapping whispering]

I feel sorry for my parents.

I mean, they were...

brilliant people.

They seemed to have...

really had a pretty
picture-perfect... thing going

from the outside.

You know, they had
this beautiful family that--

You know, my mom put on
her white gloves

and off to church we went

with [sobbing]
our beautiful outfits

all perfectly pressed.

If you look
at the first incident,

which was really Donald,

it took 10 years

before we really started
to know

what was--
something was really wrong.

Nobody knew who had what
or what was going on.

I don't think they knew
what to make of it all.

I think my parents were
so dumbstruck.

How could this possibly
be happening to them?

[Mark] It's a tragic story.

To be part
of the Galvin family is

to be part of a tragedy.

[interviewer] What's
your relationship

with Donald today?

I don't have one.

I never see him.

I don't think he cares.

[Richard] It's very difficult
to be around people

that are mentally ill,

like my brother, Donald,

'cause they're so harmful

and they get into your psyche.

[Mary] Don, hey.

-You comfortable?
-[Donald] Mm-hmm.

[Mary] Okay.

And if there's anything
you don't want to answer,

just...

say, "Move on."