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Joining us now is Matt.
He's a certified DEI expert.
And, Matt,
let's start with what you do.
What is a certified DEI expert?
Well, that's someone
who takes you on a journey
of diversity and inclusion.
And, um, speaking
of journeys, you know,
it's all about
how you begin the journey.
We covered this in the workshop.
I'd like to start with
what's called
a "land acknowledgment."
I don't know
if you're familiar with those.
Um, I brought, uh, one along
for this broadcast.
Uh, so, I'd like to begin
by acknowledging
that this broadcast is airing
in the traditional lands
of the Ute, the Paiute,
the Goshute,
and the Shoshone tribes.
These are the peoples
who call this land home
before it was ravaged and
ransacked by the white man.
And this is a lot of things
that we don't necessarily
think about.
- Mm-hmm.
- And this is part
of the journey that you'd like
to teach other folks
- in your workshops.
- Yeah.
If you wouldn't mind,
I'd go through
the exercise right now.
- Uh...
- Go ahead. What is it?
So, can we all do it together?
- Yeah. Do we stand?
- Yeah. Yeah, we stand for it.
- Okay.
- Okay.
It's very, very simple.
I start every day like this.
So what you're doing is
you're stretching,
you're stretching, and this is
more for you and less for you.
You're stretching up like this,
- and you're stretching out.
- Mm-hmm.
What you're doing
is you're stretching
out of your whiteness.
Okay, so you're decentering
your whiteness.
You're stretching
out of your whiteness.
You're probably wondering
if this is real.
The answer is yes. It's real.
That's me. Matt Walsh.
In real life.
With the man bun
and the skinny jeans
on an actual news show
as a certified DEI expert.
If you don't know,
DEI stands for diversity,
equity, and inclusion.
It's all the rage right now.
But you're still
probably asking,
what am I doing on this TV show?
How did I get there?
And how did I become
a certified DEI expert?
Well, it's a complicated story.
I've been a white guy
my whole life.
Growing up in the '90s,
I never thought much about race.
I mean, yeah, sure,
you noticed
if somebody was Black
or white or Mexican,
or whatever,
but it never really seemed
to matter that much.
At least not to me.
And we think the vast majority
of Americans are r*cist?
That's what I'm trying...
I totally understand.
I think that there is
a significant portion,
um, that are r*cist
- and you can't...
- These days, though,
we're told that
racial tensions are high.
It's all over the media.
There are a lot of racists
in this country.
We're doing a big story
about race in America.
Race in America.
Black, Latino,
and Indigenous people
are suffering and dying...
Violent, white supremacy.
- White...
- White...
- White entitlement.
- This is America.
Overnight
growing national unrest.
We've gotta do the work.
- Coffee?
- Yes. Thank you.
How do you take it?
Black.
That was awkward.
Should I not have said "black"?
That's how I like my coffee.
I don't like cream.
Is that so wrong?
I don't think
the two should be mixed.
Okay, that does sound r*cist.
Wait, am I r*cist?
What is racism?
If I'm gonna sort this out,
I need to talk to an expert.
Preferably someone
outside of my bubble.
Somebody who can speak
with authority
about the Black experience
in America.
Or I'll just talk
to this white woman.
This is Kate Slater.
She's an anti-r*cist scholar
and educator.
- Hi. Nice...
- Nice to meet ya. How are ya?
And you are the co-creator
of something called
the Anti-r*cist
- Roadmap.
- Roadmap. Yeah.
So, what... what is that?
After 2020, we saw
a lot of white people saying,
"Okay, I know
I need to do the work,
"but I don't know
what the work is."
So what is the work?
'Cause I wanna do...
- The work.
- Do that.
I wanna do it too,
but I don't know what...
What is the work?
I think, for white folks,
the work is
reallocating our resources
and privileges
to balance out
systemic inequities.
So that means there is
a white person who says,
"Okay, I'm ready
to interrupt racism,"
or, "I'm gonna be really nice
"to that Black or brown person,"
because that's the work.
But they're never willing
to interrupt
their shitty r*cist uncle.
That's a powerful example
for me.
You mentioned a r*cist uncle.
- I've got one, too.
- Yeah.
Well, you're saying,
sometimes we have
to confront those people.
Oh, absolutely.
Because if you're not going
to confront them, who is?
When is the right age
to talk to our kids
about their racism?
Before they can talk.
I mean it. I...
So my six-month-old baby,
I used...
Why the hell not?
Why the hell not?
My six-month-old...
And honestly, they've gone
through six months of life,
I've never talked to them
about racism.
So my daughter's four years old.
I am an anti-r*cist educator,
quote-unquote.
She's still watching
Disney movies,
and she is choosing
a white princess over
princesses of color.
Have you talked to her
about that?
All the time.
My three-year-old daughter
is very...
Her favorite princess is Moana.
- Love it.
- It's a good sign.
- Yeah.
- But then I also thought,
you know, it's a little bit of
cultural appropriation here.
She wants to be Moana
for Halloween.
Mm-hmm.
So, how do we navigate that?
Do I go and buy
the Pacific Islander
native attire
for my white three-year-old?
Um, I wouldn't.
I wouldn't.
But I guess, what we might
call the Moana problem here
is what, uh, on one hand,
is cultural appropriation.
On the other hand,
there's gravitating
towards white characters.
- Right.
- So it's almost like
no matter which way you go,
- you end up back...
- Right.
...in racism.
We think every space
belongs to us
because we live in
a white supremacist society.
Is America
an inherently r*cist country?
I think the word "inherent"
is challenging there.
- If we say...
- Fundamentally.
Fundamentally, yes.
America is r*cist to its bones.
- All of the...
- So, inherently.
Yeah.
Just to put it
as bluntly as possible,
am I r*cist?
Every white person in America
has grown up in a country
where race and racism make up
the fabric of our society.
So I don't think anyone
moves through this world
with a non-bias,
non-r*cist world view.
So the answer's yes,
I am r*cist.
You said it
What do you recommend
to people for resources
if they're just starting
on their anti-r*cist path?
Go to the bookstore
if you're not reading
these books.
And then applying
what you've learned,
taking what you read about
and saying,
"Hey, r*cist uncle,
"I think we should
talk about this."
That you're no good.
I've never, uh, confronted
my own r*cist uncle.
I haven't confronted him.
But it's not ever too late.
No.
No.
Sometimes it means
having the conversation
that you've been knowing
in your heart,
you've been putting off
for years.
Hmm.
If Kate Slater's right, then
it's all worse than I thought.
America is r*cist
down to its bones.
And my Uncle Frank,
well, I'll deal with him later.
For now, I've got
a lot of reading to do.
So we do have books
on anti-racism,
uh, kind of
all throughout the store.
There's a lot of,
like, newer stuff
that tends to go on
the main floor first, but...
- Yeah.
- ...the bulk of our section,
we keep over here.
This is all anti-racism?
Yeah. This section is really
just books on anti-racism,
and a lot of
the history of racism,
particularly in
the United States.
Am I even allowed
to touch this one?
Some of these books
are provocative.
Yes. Definitely.
So, what... Am I allowed
to even read this one?
I think
you're allowed to read it.
I would not perhaps say
the title.
So I couldn't call you up
and say, "Do you have..."
You might say it's a book
that starts with "N"
- and it's by this author.
- Yeah.
If you were looking for that
in particular.
That's probably a level up
from where I am.
How many of these
do you think we need to...
need to get through before
we can really understand?
Start with one book,
let it sit, see how you feel.
I feel like reading one book
kind of gets you
into a place where it's like,
"You know what? I do want
to do more about this."
These are all
staff recommendations.
Uh, they're all fiction,
written by diverse authors,
and they're all pretty fun.
Dumb question.
You said diverse authors.
What's a diverse person?
Uh, that would be basically
people who aren't white,
essentially.
- So, Black, Latinx...
- So we can't...
...Native American, Asian...
So everybody
who's not white is diverse.
Well...
Unless you're... say, g*y.
Yeah. I mean,
it's not just reading
Black people, but, you know,
every... Like, there are
a lot of different groups
that have faced persecution,
and have had a hard time,
and, you know,
just being a white,
straight, cisgender person,
usually a man,
it's like kind of
the top of the pile.
- But, uh...
- That's me.
So I'm on the top of the pile.
- Uh... You know...
- Where should I start?
White Women, uh,
by Regina Jackson and Saira Rao.
Race 2 Dinner
is a thing that they do, uh...
Basically, this book
is saying, like,
"We need to stop being nice
about racism,"
'cause nothing has been
advanced by being nice.
White Fragility
by Robin DiAngelo.
Hearing from
another white person
about ways
to have these conversations,
and ways to break through
your own white fragility,
I think, is a really
good place to start.
Well, a lot to learn,
but we have
all the materials here,
I think...
...to start the journey.
Beautiful bookstore.
Thank you. We're fond of it.
Thank you.
Have a good day.
Robin DiAngelo's
2018 book, White Fragility,
catapulted to the top
of the New York Times
best sellers' list.
Robin DiAngelo is a sociologist,
and she's author of this book.
Everyone, please check out
her book, White Fragility.
Everyone else in the world has.
White Fragility,
which is, in many cases,
the Bible for white people...
This is the book
that we'll be reading.
- White Fragility.
- Crucial and seminal book.
New York Times best-selling list
for the third year.
"Racism is the norm
rather than an aberration.
"Anti-Blackness is foundational
"to our very identities
as white people."
As a white person,
I was just raised to expect
the world to be mine.
That's how difficult we are.
Wow.
That's how big, uh,
a-holes we are.
Yeah.
"White identity
is inherently r*cist.
"White people do not exist
"outside the system
of white supremacy."
When we say "I'm not r*cist,"
what we're conveying
is that we're clueless
about what racism is.
And I would just ask
white Americans
to remove that phrase
from their vocabulary.
"I'm not r*cist."
"Anger, fear, and guilts,
"and behavior
such as argumentation silence
"and withdrawal.
These responses work to
"maintain our dominance
within the racial hierarchy.
"I conceptualize this process
as white fragility."
Robin DiAngelo was right.
Coming to terms
with my whiteness
was not going to be easy.
Fortunately,
I found a support group
that can help me
with my white privilege,
run by an anti-r*cist expert
who specializes in grief.
Her fee was $30,000
to host this workshop,
so, obviously,
she must be the best.
But I'm worried that,
as a well-known conservative,
the support group may not
welcome me into their fold.
Maybe I'll use a different name
to help me blend in.
Whatever it takes
to continue this journey.
All right.
So, typically, I like
to open up the space
with a brief meditation,
so if you feel comfortable,
please ground yourself
in your seats.
Close your eyes
and just allow yourself to be
fully present in the space.
Whatever that means.
Are we meditating?
Okay. Sorry.
When you are ready,
open your eyes
and rejoin the space.
All right.
So is everybody excited
to talk about
anti-racism and grief?
Absolutely.
Okay.
So, I usually like
to get this started
by just introducing ourselves.
If you could please
pronounce your name.
Uh, please share your pronouns,
how you're feeling today,
as well as
the weirdest compliment
you have ever received.
My name is Dan.
Uh, my pronouns are he/him.
I'm feeling excited today.
And then the weirdest compliment
I think I've ever received...
I was in
the online dating sphere,
and I've gotten the "you look
much better in person."
Oh, my God.
Um...
If you wanna stand, you can,
- totally, it's okay.
- Okay, I'll just sit down.
Uh, I'm Steven.
Uh, pronouns, I'll...
you know, I'll have
to get back to you on that.
Um, I'm feeling
excited, uh, nervous.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, present.
A little hungry.
But...
The strangest compliment
I've ever gotten
is I've been complimented, uh,
on the number of Black friends
that I have...
Hmm.
...in the past.
So, it's 17, um...
it's a number, but, you know...
Sometimes it comes up,
but, um...
That's what people
have said, so...
Hmm.
Thank you, everybody,
for being willing to participate
and for, first and foremost,
being here.
We will not end systemic racism.
It is not possible for us
to dismantle a system
that has been around
for 400 years,
and has effectively
and efficiently
destroyed the lives
of millions of people.
You all have been
grandfathered into the system.
We are here to focus on you
and your experience
and your grief
because that is the source
of downstream anti-Blackness
and racism.
And quite frankly, I pray to God
you all feel this uncomfortable.
I will be so happy if you all
feel extremely uncomfortable,
if you are truly looking
at what white supremacy
has done to not only, um,
African Americans,
but to yourselves.
You are here to sit
amidst whatever suffering
and pain you are experiencing
for the sake
of the liberation of others.
That is love.
I don't know
if any of you grew up
with a Christian background.
I did.
Uh...
But love is also not always
patient and kind.
When we are talking
about systemic oppression,
and the role that we are
playing to mitigate it,
patience is not needed.
People are dying.
Kindness is not
what is called for.
We are here
to talk about the fact
that Black Americans
are not safe.
If I'm going to be quite frank,
when I do this work,
and these types of circles,
I'm not safe.
But I do them out of necessity.
Why are you...
Why are you not safe
in the circle?
Being an African American
in primarily white spaces
is not safe for me mentally
or emotionally.
We will go into more depth
about that,
but I appreciate that question.
These topics may be difficult,
and at times,
you may feel overcome
by emotions. That's okay.
There is a room to the left.
If you find
that your emotions are, um,
interfering with
the group process,
I kindly ask you to step aside.
Um, so can we start with you?
I'm here because...
I feel like I've been
socialized to be an as*h*le,
and that doesn't feel good.
And my promise
to the Black community
is to lean into
being brave and uncomfortable,
and to love
in inconvenient ways.
Thank you.
Well, I'm here
on a journey towards
a brighter future,
uh, for myself
and for, you know,
hopefully, the world.
My promise to myself is love.
To love myself.
Which is so important,
and I've struggled so much
with that.
I've struggled so much with it
in my life, to find myself.
Um...
My promise
to the Black communities...
to be so much better.
So much better
than I have been to them.
To be better
in so many better ways.
To better myself.
To better the world.
And I know
that I haven't been better.
I haven't been.
But I'm going to be.
That's my promise.
Thank you.
Oh.
I am here with the intention
to understand
and learn and, um...
- dig a little bit into...
- I'm sorry, can I...
I forgot one other thing
I wanted to promise
- the Black community.
- Um...
It's really important
that we don't interrupt
each other during the group.
- Oh, I'm sorry.
- But I appreciate...
I have one other promise
for the Black...
- We can circle back around.
- Thank you.
Are we going
to circle back around?
No. No. Uh...
Other things will come up.
That's part of the process.
But I want to be very sure
that we respect
everybody's time.
Okay. I didn't want someone
else to take my promise
to the Black community
that I was gonna make.
Well, thank you.
Please continue.
The promise
that I am making to myself
is to be elastic.
To use my voice
and my privilege,
to be heard.
Uh, to...
That's what
I was gonna say, but...
- Please allow her to finish.
- Sorry.
If we think about
the construction of whiteness
as an identity,
it makes sense that the seeds
of white supremacy
are buried
within your subconscious,
whether or not you realize it,
and without your consent.
It is often uncommon
for white Americans
to be aware of their privilege,
let alone how it's functioning
on a day-to-day basis.
You said, a moment ago...
- Um, there'll be an oppor...
- Can I say something?
Uh, yes. Ask a question.
You said, a moment ago,
that the seeds
of white supremacy
- are in all of us.
- Yes.
How do we get them out?
That's what the presentation...
We're going through the
presentation to discuss that.
If there is
another interruption,
I'm going to
have to respectfully ask you
to step out and go to
the second room to the left.
But next time, I am gonna have
to ask you to leave, okay?
Leave for good?
Just until you're able
to rejoin the group
and participate
without interruption.
- Yeah?
- That's fair.
Okay. Thank you.
White supremacy has
essentially created a system
driven by grief,
and that is why
we are here to discuss
white grief in particular.
I would like you
to close your eyes
and spend the next 30 seconds
thinking about,
what does that loss feel like
in your body?
It feels like a thousand knives
plunging into my soul.
And a sack being...
hit by bats and bricks.
And the whole sack
is thrown into the ocean.
Thank you.
That's what it feels like.
And it's very... it's...
- Oh, um...
- What?
We're moving to her now.
I... I didn't finish.
Please finish.
Um...
The sack's thrown
into the ocean,
then the sack's taken out,
and it's set on fire.
- Thank you.
- That's what it feels like.
I have spent a lot of time
in primarily white spaces.
For better or worse.
So...
And that has come with a cost.
How long will it take until
the next microaggression
comes up?
These are things
that I carry every time
I am in a room
with primarily white people.
You're safe here.
I think I speak for all of us
when I say,
in this room...
I...
- One more interruption...
- White folks.
...I'm gonna have to
ask you to step out again.
Okay. I just wanted
to reassure you.
Thank you.
I appreciate that.
- I just want to.
- Thanks.
So, what do you feel
in your body
when you hear
the term "white people"?
I feel, like, a cringe about it.
"Cringe" is a good word.
- Cringe? Yeah?
- I couldn't pick a word,
- but that's a very good one.
- Okay.
As soon as you asked
the question, I felt,
inside, like a gut...
a little bit of a poke. "Ugh."
And I think
it's for all of the reasons,
- but also a little anger...
- Mm-hmm.
...at whiteness
as, um, that lie.
Just, "ugh!"
Mm-hmm. Thank you.
The thing about...
I'm gonna step out for a moment.
Thank you. Appreciate that.
The thing about...
Which one is the cry room?
The second door to the left.
Thank you.
My time in the cry room
allowed me some much-needed
reflection and self-care,
but with me out of the room,
the group put two and two
together and realized
who I actually was.
Not a guy named Steven.
When I finally returned,
things were
drastically different.
When I do this work,
the, uh, white participants
in the group feel that there's
something in themselves
that they have to overcome.
When all that's
being requested of you...
...is that you be.
- Hello.
- Hi.
How are you?
- Sorry about that.
- Oh, no problem.
- You good?
- Yeah.
Remind me of your name again?
Uh... Uh, Steven.
Steven? Yeah? Okay.
Um...
- Did you want to come up?
- Come up?
Yeah. Do you wanna come up
and share anything?
Sure.
What do you want me to share?
Whatever's on your mind.
I just want to know that,
like, my physical safety
and yours and everybody else's
here is okay.
Why would your physical safety
not be okay?
Did I miss something?
I don't feel comfortable.
What... Can you guys
catch me up to speed
on what's going on here?
You don't need to be caught up.
We're gonna be silent.
Is it because I said
I had 17 Black friends?
It might have been 15. I...
It depends
on how you count them.
I would really appreciate it
if you left,
so that the people
who actually want to be here
and deserve to be here
can get what they need.
- I do want to be here.
- Can you please leave?
I would like it if you left.
I'm trying to learn.
I'm on this journey.
Come with me.
- Well...
- Thank you.
I didn't... I didn't consent
to be touched.
I'm not offering to touch you.
I'm offering to walk you out.
Will you walk with me, and
I'll answer your questions?
Okay. I'll admit it.
I'll admit it.
My name's not Steven.
Hmm.
Maybe you already knew that.
My name is Matt Walsh.
-Mm-hmm
- Mm-hmm. We know.
I just was here on this...
on this journey
that I'm just starting, but...
I see that I'm not wanted.
If you were on your journey,
then you would've told us
who you were
and your real name,
but you didn't.
- Please leave.
- Are you saying
I need a better disguise?
Is that what you...
I don't know. Maybe.
But you can figure that out
as you walk out the door.
How did you get in here?
We all had an invitation.
- Maybe.
- Yeah. Maybe.
Thank you so much.
I really had a transformative
experience myself.
And my pronouns are he/him.
I did everything I could
to fit in.
I opened up.
I was raw and emotional.
I told them
about my Black friends.
It was no use.
They rejected me.
And they called the police.
My mere presence in the room
caused them pain.
I'll never be accepted
if I look like this.
If they know
that I'm Matt Walsh,
I'll always be an outsider.
I need to go deeper undercover.
A whole new identity.
If I want to be an ally,
I need to look like one.
Like someone who is progressive,
tolerant, enlightened.
Let me think.
Have I ever met
anyone like that?
Ah, yes.
Yes, I have.
What is a woman?
Why do you ask that question?
It's time to get serious
about my anti-r*cist training.
And it's not gonna be cheap.
- Nice to meet you.
- I'm Matt. How are you?
- Nice to meet you.
- Nice to meet you.
I guess I'll take my seat here.
I'ma show ya'll
how to stop being r*cist
You gotta
do the work though
What is race?
Okay, don't be a bigot
Post a black square
Drink Bud Light
Put blue dye in your hair
Tell your sons
to put on a dress
Who cares what they wear?
Ukraine flag in bio
Okay, we're almost there
So it emerged
in the late 1600s essentially.
Did race exist
as a reality before?
We made race exist.
Don't be early for work,
that's white supremacy
And if you drink,
make sure it's Hennessy
Math is r*cist too,
so check the history
And if you don't see it,
then check your memory
Do the work, do the work
If you wanna stop
being r*cist, do the work
Do the work, do the work
Let go
of your white privilege
Do the work, work, work
Now that we've talked a little
bit about what race is,
then what is racism?
Do the work, do the work
If you wanna stop
being r*cist, do the work
Robin DiAngelo,
so she's the author
of the book, White Fragility.
She talks about
the system of racism
that we have in the US
is based on white supremacy.
Do the work, do the work
If you wanna stop
being r*cist, do the work
This is why a conversation
about reparations
and about repair is important.
Do the work, do the work
Ultimately, should we be
a colorblind society is what
Martin Luther King said,
not to judge people
by the color of their skin.
Um, so Martin Luther King
said a lot of stuff,
but he knew about institutional,
interpersonal
and internalized racism.
I've been told,
because I'm a white male,
I'm kind of
at the top of the pile.
How do I get down from the top
if I say I don't want
that advantage?
Um...
I don't think
you necessarily can.
The reason
we cannot be colorblind now
is because we're still working
on the problem.
Do the work, do the work
Let go of your
white privilege, do the work
Do the work, do the work
If you wanna stop
being r*cist, do the work
Do the work, do the work
If you wanna stop
being r*cist, do the work
I'm DEI certified.
How are you?
DEI certified.
I'm here to help.
DEI certified. If you need
some help, let me know, sir.
I'm DEI certified.
- What?
- What?
Let me know if you need
some help. I'm DEI certified.
Oh, good.
If you need any help,
just let me know.
My name's Matt.
I am, uh, certified
in diversity, equity,
and inclusion.
Just got my certification.
Just letting you know
I am DEI certified.
- DEI certified.
- What is DEI?
You're in good hands here.
I am qualified to have
these kinds
of important dialogues.
So I guess I'll start with,
where are you guys
in your anti-r*cist journeys?
Just talk to me about, uh,
decentering your whiteness
and where you are
on that journey.
- "Decentering my whiteness."
- Yeah.
Why do I have to go away
from my whiteness
and decentralize it?
I recently actually took
a masters level course,
um, about inclusion
and diversity.
Have you heard
of DiversityAndInclusion.com?
I have not.
Couple of different
prestigious institutions.
We all go to different
schools, but go ahead.
There were some things that,
you know, kind of
brought to my thought process
during that course
that I had never...
- Like what?
- ...thought about before.
Um, just about my own thinking.
When you start thinking
about how you feel,
but you maybe
don't want to feel.
Does that make sense?
It does make sense.
What do you mean?
Um...
All I know is that, like,
I am white, and I am not r*cist.
That's how we, uh,
deal with racism?
We just... We just say,
"Oh, it's not happening."
Yeah, the more
you talk about it,
the more you are blatantly
acknowledging race.
And if you wanna forget it...
- We have to acknowledge it.
- You need to shut up about it.
I don't want to forget about it.
It's cool, like, you can
flash your card all you want,
but you gotta be a real human
at some point in your life.
- Did you see the card?
- I don't give a damn
- about your card, bro.
- Let's see it.
Look, we're not gonna solve
racism in this conversation,
but we can all agree
that you guys have
some things to learn.
I feel like you're
the most r*cist person
I've ever talked to.
One of us got the license,
the other one didn't, so...
You just sound
like a really r*cist person.
That I am. I've realized that.
- I've been told that.
- Why do you admit that?
Because denying it
doesn't make it go away.
We can't all
be certified experts.
I mean, I am,
but we can't all be.
All right.
We're still on a journey,
all of us together.
- Yeah.
- That's my motto.
I think you got
some journeying to do.
I know I make this look easy,
but DEI work
is harder than you think.
I still have a lot to learn.
A viral video from September
at ASU's multi-cultural center
ignited a firestorm.
- What'd I do wrong?
- You have a bag...
You're...
You're offensive.
You're making this space
uncomfortable.
...uncomfortable.
But you're white.
This white man thinks
he can take up our space,
and this is why we need
a multi-cultural space.
You are r*cist!
Your sticker's r*cist because
you can choose to be a cop,
you can choose to k*ll people
with a badge,
and you're protecting that sh*t,
which means that you're r*cist!
Meet the charming
young lady from that video.
Sarra Tekola.
Founding member of
Black Lives Matter, Phoenix.
She has a Ph.D.
in Sustainability, which means
something really important,
I'm sure.
She's agreed to help me learn
how to decolonize myself.
For a $1,500 fee, of course.
So let's just get this
kicked off.
I'm a white guy myself.
What's up with white people?
Um, where do we start?
Let me reframe the question
a little bit.
What's wrong with white people?
A lot of it has to do
with cognitive dissidence
which allows, um, white people
to feel okay
about what happened.
There's actually a lot
of studies on n*zi doctors,
and how they were able to,
um, live with themselves.
Um, and it's not that much
different than white Americans
or white people
around the world, right?
It's this splitting of the self.
And so, um,
you have this part of you
that knows
that they did wrong,
the shadow self,
and that you have to split that.
And you have the other self
that's like,
"Oh, I didn't do anything wrong.
"Racism?
Why are you blaming me
"for what my ancestors did?
It's not my fault."
Is racism inherent to whiteness?
I would say so.
I would say that we need
to abolish whiteness.
It's always been rooted
in othering the other people
who don't fit into whiteness,
but when we look
at white culture,
the only thing
about white culture
is buying things
and stealing things.
How do I...
confront my shadow,
my shadow self?
Acknowledging the parts of you
that are r*cist,
and then being able to unpack
and unlearn those.
Could I say, if someone
called me r*cist,
could I say,
"Well, I'm not r*cist."
"My shadow self is,
but I'm not"?
It's the splitting of the self.
Like I said in the beginning
about n*zi doctors.
The fact that you
have two selves is a problem.
The more that you can
merge it together,
then you could be able to
acknowledge these dark sides.
But I don't want to merge it,
because the shadow self
is r*cist,
so I don't want to be merged,
right? I want to...
- separate.
- No. You have to.
Yeah, because, uh, the thing is,
when you don't merge
them together,
your shadow self
is out here being r*cist,
and you're not even aware of it,
because that self, right...
So I gotta pull him in.
I gotta merge him with mine.
- Yeah.
- But then make it all...
- Yeah.
- ...not r*cist.
Yes.
I'm wondering, where do I go
from here as an individual
on this anti-r*cist journey?
You just know
whose land you're on.
Our existence as Americans
is predicated
on other people's suffering.
Learn about who is suffering
because of our existence on...
on this stolen land.
It is important to feel bad,
um, about what
your ancestors did.
- Embrace the pain.
- Yes.
To be a good ally,
I need to be an activist.
Our nation is littered with
relics from our r*cist past.
I'm on a mission
to right historical wrongs.
I needed some help,
so I asked Ben,
one of my 17 Black friends,
to join me on my quest
to change the world.
We have a petition.
Uh, we're hoping that maybe
you'd be willing to sign it.
We have a petition.
We want to rename
the George Washington Monument.
To?
To the George Floyd Monument.
Because, of course,
George Washington
was a sl*ve owner.
- Yep.
- And so in some ways,
this is symbolic. Symmetry,
it's George for George,
you might say.
Would you mind signing?
- I don't see why not. I will.
- Okay.
- Yeah. Sure.
- Yeah.
Oh, man. I love that.
We're talking
about painting it black.
We're gonna raise it 30%,
um, increasing it in height.
Excuse me, sir.
Sir, we have a petition. Sir?
For historical inequities
to redress...
Is there a Black person
around here?
I would hug them
and apologize to them
all day long for what happened.
There's a Black person
right here.
Does he not exist?
I'm sorry. I just didn't
look that direction.
Sounds like you're
in the habit of overlooking
marginalized communities.
Brother.
You are an American.
I love you.
I'm sorry for what happened
in the past. I really am.
Let's just sign it and move on.
You don't have an opinion,
but you'll sign it anyway?
If that's what you'd
like me to, I can help.
- I would like you to.
- I can help you guys out.
Yeah. Thank you so much.
- Sign here?
- Yes. Absolutely.
I think it's a beautiful idea.
You think it's a beautiful idea?
I do.
We've got an encouraging
number of signatures so far.
We have a petition for the...
to redress
historical inequities.
Would you mind signing it?
You will?
Uh, we want to rename the
George Washington Monument
to the George Floyd Monument.
Thank you so much.
Would you be willing to?
I can't agree with that.
- Will you sign it?
- No.
So are you gonna
erase all of them?
Yes.
No.
- Can you sign it anyway?
- Nope.
Getting people to agree
to change
the George Washington Monument
to the George Floyd Monument
seemed ambitious.
I'm pleasantly surprised
people are willing to erase
our problematic history.
If you wanna stop
being r*cist, do the work
I spend
way too much time cleaning.
Oh, the broom shaka lakas
for more than just...
It's come with a full 60-day...
There's a
controversial documentary out
entitled Destructing Karen.
How many
of you would trade places
with a Black person
in this society?
Raise your hand.
Today,
on an all-new Dr. Phil,
Regina Jackson and Saira Rao.
Now, they are co-founders
of Race 2 Dinner.
What did you expect
at these dinners?
Basically, exactly what
we expect is what we get.
Some women are ready
to do the work.
But pretty much when they come
to the dinners,
"It's not me. I'm not r*cist."
Hold on a minute.
I've heard of
these ladies before.
Race 2 Dinner is a thing
that they do, uh...
Basically, this book
is saying, like,
"We need to stop
being nice about racism."
Stop being nice about racism?
What a concept!
Apparently, you just pay these
ladies thousands of dollars
to come over for dinner
and call you r*cist.
It's genius!
I absolutely need to attend
one of these dinners.
But there's a big problem.
Only white women
are allowed to attend.
Why do white women
get to have all the fun?
I need to find another way
to earn a seat at the table.
Okay.
So, at these dinners,
we only have one rule.
And the rule is
that if you have to cry,
you have to leave the table.
Generally, we will have
the host just set up a room,
you know, with lots of tissue
and everything...
...so you can go in there
and sob your heart out.
When a white woman
starts crying,
it draws all the attention
- from the room...
- Yeah.
...onto that poor,
- white woman.
- Yeah.
Even the language of whiteness
softens everything.
White fragility,
so what that is, is...
And by the way, a white woman,
you know, your hero,
Robin DiAngelo,
coined that term,
and it's for when people...
when Black and brown people
talk about racism
and then white people
get upset, you know, angry,
and then
deflect the conversation.
By not wanting
to address your racism
and your white supremacy,
that is upholding
white supremacy.
That is not fragile. So just
think about how even language
to describe
your violent behavior
is couched in ways
to make you all seem delicate.
And to make you comfortable.
So...
tell us one instance
that your racism
has shown up recently.
And that's either something
- you did...
- Didn't do.
...thought or an action.
So, my husband's Black,
so it can be an everyday
white supremacist thing.
Like, if I'm out in public,
and he's, like, really loud
or something
and I'll shush him.
Why do you do that?
Uh, usually because
we're in a space
that I think should be quiet,
which is probably
my white supremacy talking.
So, that's basically
tone policing
- a Black person...
- Mm-hmm.
...who happens
to be your husband.
- Yeah.
- Okay. Who's next?
This one mom
starts going on about
how her white son is so screwed.
Been rejected here,
and "white boy, white boy."
All right, white entitlement,
white centering,
tone policing, white silence.
White women owned sl*ves.
Period. That's what it is.
Let's be clear what's
happening in this country.
- It's Nazism.
- Yeah.
Republicans are Nazis.
I assume it sounds like
everyone here
is probably not a Republican.
I might be wrong.
Am I wrong about the...
Is there any Republican
at this table?
You cannot separate yourselves
from the bad white people.
The proliferation of g*ns
has happened
every time whites feel terrified
of Black and brown people,
which is literally
every 10 seconds,
but also, um, when
there's an event like Obama.
Like Ferguson. Like 9/11.
Like COVID-19.
Like George Floyd. Thank you.
Um...
You've been k*lling all of us, right?
Primarily Black folks,
and we're just right behind.
Right? There's the hierarchy.
Whiteness is even
more insidious than I...
than I even knew
even a year ago.
And whiteness also robs you
of your brain.
You know, you all have gave up
your reproductive
health rights without...
You wouldn't even
get off your Peloton bike
for 10 minutes
to go protest that.
Did you want a second roll?
No, thank you.
Oh, okay. I'm good.
Black people know
that white people believe
they need their g*ns
to protect yourselves from us.
We've decided that it's okay
for the Second Amendment,
which is literally synonymous
with white supremacy,
to be our bible.
You want some?
This is what anti-racism is.
It's actually
what anti-whiteness is.
- It has to burn.
- Mm-hmm.
The entire system has to burn.
And I'm not looking to you
to save this country.
This country
is not worth saving.
This country is a piece of sh*t.
Oh, my goodness!
Oh, sorry.
Um, but yes.
Uh, aren't you all tired of
living like this? Seriously.
I mean, I used
to be a white woman.
An unsuccessful one...
...for many decades.
And it was
a miserable experience.
And really, the... the...
the hatred of yourselves
and each other
is like the most...
The not seeing your power.
The being afraid, like,
all you do is talk sh*t
about each other,
talk sh*t about yourselves,
"Oh, my God, I'm so fat."
That's all they do.
That's all they do.
I'm telling you.
These white women.
But it's... it's...
That's it.
It's "I'm so fat.
I'm so stupid.
"I'm blah blah blah."
Sorry.
Your kids are watching you.
And they're watching you
talking sh*t about each other.
You know, raging against
a machine or being silent
or whatever the hell it is
that you're doing or not doing.
And they know that you're not
doing sh*t for them.
That's so important.
That is so important,
what she just said.
It's real...
It's really important.
That's...
We may have to add you
to our team.
Oh! I would love
to take a seat and join you.
- No. You're not allowed to.
- Oh, okay.
- Definitely not allowed.
- Okay.
I do have my DEI certification
- that I... that I got.
- Okay.
- Okay.
- So...
Not saying I'm an expert,
but I'm also not a novice.
So...
Okay.
White people are starved
for these conversations.
We are.
We are so starving.
- Yeah.
- We are so starving for this.
Anyone else?
Want to say anything?
I'll just say one thing.
I'm so glad we can
have these conversations.
And I'll be done.
But, uh, I'm just so glad
that we could all get together
to have these conversations.
That's all I wanted to say.
- Thank you.
- Is he an actor?
- Are you an actor?
- Oh, no.
Can you let us...
We're trying to listen
and trying
to have this conversation.
Okay. You know,
we're all acting all the time
in our lives,
and, uh, and I think that
that's part of the problem.
You know?
And it's like we're all
trying to play a part
rather than just being real
and having these
uncomfortable conversations.
And that's what I'm always
trying to tell people.
Especially, you know,
white women. No offense.
- But...
- No,
but, see, like,
you're a white dude.
There's power positions
- and, uh, you know...
- Yeah.
...it's pointing...
pointing...
white people pointing fingers
at each other is not helpful.
You know, I've been
on this journey for so long,
and just to see you guys
at the table
having this conversation
has been really
enlightening for me.
Anyway,
I got the DEI certification.
And I'm just on the journey.
All right. You ladies
have a great...
Thank you.
All right.
- Decolonize yourself.
- Mm-hmm.
Do your own
white supremacy dismantling.
And then you can start
to bring in other people.
Can I just... Can I just
say one last thing?
Can I just propose a toast?
Uh, I mean, just raise a glass
if you're r*cist.
And that's the thing.
Cheers. Oh, I'm not r*cist.
Let me put my glass down.
All the rest of you.
To racists.
What a charming group of ladies.
I've learned a lot
from my fellow anti-racists.
But now it's time to evangelize.
To go to white America
and teach them
about their privilege.
This biker bar
will do just fine.
I'm sure these people
would love to have
an honest dialogue
about the perils of whiteness.
What are you doing,
personally, in your life
to decenter your whiteness?
What do you mean, decenter it?
Well...
Take it away
from the center of...
Who's making it the center?
Why are they doing that?
Why race has to be thrown in
on everything?
Well, you're white...
you're white.
So? Who cares?
I mean, really, the way that
the world is going right now,
people need to be concerned
with how they're going
to feed their families.
Not what color
is that man's skin.
I got Black friends,
I love them, too.
- But they know they're Black.
- Do you know they're Black?
Of course I do, and I like it.
Good for them.
Well, you know, one thing
I've learned is that
if you meet a Black person,
you want to forget
that they're Black.
But don't forget
that they're Black.
Why would you want to forget
that they're Black?
- Well, don't. But also don't.
- Are they a friend?
Then you should embrace
them being Black.
I think Black men should
have pride in being Black.
And I think you should
have pride in being white.
- What's wrong with that?
- I agree with the first part.
Hello, sir.
Hi.
What's your name?
Pat.
- Pat?
- Yeah.
What about you?
Do you have, uh, kids?
- Do you have a wife?
- Yeah, I've got...
two or three kids...
- Two or three kids?
- Yeah.
You don't have
to give me the whole list,
but what are some ways
that you're, um,
confronting your whiteness?
- My whiteness?
- Yeah.
I get along good
with Black people.
I used to have... I used
to have a Black brother.
I called him my brother.
He called me his brother.
Was he really your brother?
No, he wasn't.
You were calling
a Black man brother?
Yeah. I had more Black friends
living in Huntsville
than I had white friends.
- Really?
- Yeah.
So that's in your own life,
but systemically...
Considering the way
things is at now?
Yeah.
Just to summarize.
But what do you think about
this issue of heteronormativity
and how it intersects
with the broader structures
of racism in society?
Huh?
I mean, ultimately,
how do we get to a point of,
let's say, racial harmony?
I don't know.
But I'm just telling you
what I said.
That's a lot to think about
on my own journey.
- It's good to talk to you.
- Mm-hmm.
Uh, I'm a vegetarian as well.
Uh, just started on the vegan,
uh, journey also,
- so I'm glad...
- That don't say "vegetarian."
That's a...
- "Vaginatarian."
- "Vaginatarian."
What is that?
That's a little bit
of a sexist joke.
Well, you know.
It is what it is.
What do you think
about racism in society?
Is it... Do you think
it's a big problem?
I was born in 1960.
My dad, my uncle,
my granddaddy, were Klansmen.
It never affected me.
But you don't... You're not...
- No.
- ...r*cist?
- No. Not at all.
- And how do you know?
How do either of you know
that you're...
Because I...
I accept people as they are.
Exactly.
If you approach me
as a human being,
then I'm gonna
be a human being too.
We all bleed the same way.
What do you think
about systemic racism?
Systemic?
What the hell is that?
Is the system constructed
in such a way
as to marginalize
people of color?
You wanna do away with racism?
Quit labeling people
as Black and white.
- Exactly.
- But that's colorblindness,
which is problematic.
If I meet you as a Black man,
and you...
you approach me,
I shake your hand.
We go in here,
we have a conversation,
we have a beer or ride
down the road on a motorcycle.
What the hell does your color
got to do with it?
It's all right here, bubba.
If you treat people right,
they treat you right.
And...
I don't care
what color they are.
You gotta
treat each other right.
I was expecting these bikers
would be a bunch of racists.
And obviously, I was right.
These people
haven't even started
to decenter their whiteness.
Now I need to go deeper
into the r*cist south,
so that I can talk
to people of color
about their lived experience
with racism.
I was in the drug game
for 18 years of my life, man.
And 14 and a half years went
all, uh, to incarceration.
So how did you get out?
I got out through, uh,
the pages of the Word of God.
My parents always
taught me to love everybody.
Don't allow skin color to ever
become a problem for you.
We didn't...
We didn't see colors, baby.
Because we grew up together.
And you know,
it was a lot of love.
Inherent dignity,
it's in all of us.
Though we're different
in so many ways,
we're still alike
in so many more ways.
- So we all one in God's sight.
- Yes.
So how long
have you owned this shop here?
I came here August 15, 1971,
from British Guyana.
Did you start a family
and all that?
Yes. Altogether
I have 53 grandchildren.
- Wow.
- Yeah.
You think the country
has been good to you?
Yeah. Yeah, very good.
Very good, yeah.
How do you feel
about America today?
America, man,
is a beautiful country.
A beautiful country.
I don't have no problem here.
A lot of people,
pretty critical of, uh...
of this country,
and, you know...
I don't know why.
It can be
kind of a r*cist country.
No. No, no, no.
Do you experience a lot of
microaggressions out here?
Nah. Not out here.
No.
Well, what about
the systemic issue?
- Systemic...
- What you mean by "systemic"?
Well, the whole country.
The system.
The system is... You know,
the system is r*cist.
Mm...
Not to me.
- Not to you?
- No. Not to me, man.
I don't think
about those things,
racism and all that stuff.
I've been reading
a lot of books recently.
Robin DiAngelo,
White Fragility, obviously.
Uh, been reading a lot
of anti-r*cist literature.
Mm-hmm.
I don't read them things.
What do you read?
The only thing I read
is the Bible.
I got it in the car right there.
If you looked in my car,
you'll see it right there
on the seat.
So you haven't read
any Robin DiAngelo?
Uh, no. No, no.
Robin DiAngelo, who is that?
Well, she's a anti-r*cist, uh...
- Oh, no, no, no. No, no, no.
- ...expert.
I never read
them kind of books, man.
If I get a book like that,
I put it down.
I don't want it.
I got a couple copies
in my car. I can give you one.
No. I don't want it.
I don't want it.
I don't want it.
No. 'Cause that is not
in my heart. No.
I've kind of been working on,
uh, decentering my whiteness.
Oh, your whiteness?
Aight now, baby. We all bleed
the same thing, dude.
If I cut you right there,
you will bleed just like me.
I...
It's just the color
of your skin.
How do we get past all the, uh,
talk about racism and the...
Oh, we gotta love each other,
like I said.
We have to love each other.
That's how you get past racism.
Well, it can't be that simple.
- Huh?
- Is it that simple?
Well, yeah. I mean, to me.
Something's not right.
These people said the
same thing as those bikers.
White supremacy
is more pervasive
than I ever imagined.
I need to talk to someone
who has stared directly
into the face of racism.
- July 16th...
- Mm-hmm.
- ...2022.
- Mm-hmm.
- Difficult day for you.
- Very.
And for America.
The popular kids amusement park
apologized after
a video went viral
that appeared
to show a costumed character
snubbing two Black girls.
Okay, you see
the character coming,
high-fiving everybody
as he goes down the street.
Gets to those two little girls.
And appears
to just flat out say no,
and you see the little girls,
and their faces,
and they're heartbroken.
Meet Jodi Brown.
The mother who was victimized
at the hands of Rosita,
the Sesame Street character.
She was reluctant to talk
about the traumatic incident,
but for $50,000,
she was willing
to tell her tragic story.
Now, you have described
this moment as disgusting.
Because I feel like
if you are able to acknowledge
someone before my children
and after my children,
you could've stopped
two seconds just to say hello.
This was something targeted
at your... you and your child.
It was a very intentional
r*cist act.
We don't want some explanation
that, "Oh, the performer
"didn't see
these two young girls."
Which one of them
is in isolation today
from the harm that is being
caused by this company.
So we're gonna demand
that they take care
of any type of healthcare
or mental care expenses
that these children
have realized.
And who is Rosita?
Who's in that costume?
Mel Gibson.
I think that person needs to be,
you know, held accountable.
- Fired and held to account.
- Absolutely fired.
Well, before you fire 'em,
teach 'em
why they're being fired.
And then let them go.
And then let them go.
How do we fix the endemic
racism among mascots?
Mascots, I feel, like,
need to be trained better.
Do you know who
the employee is that was
- in the costume?
- No.
That information
was never given to me.
Uh, do we know if they're white?
Um, that information
was also not given to me.
Do you think American society
is r*cist?
There is an epidemic of hate
in the United States of America.
Threats of violence.
Threats of death
and destruction.
Hate and racism
are alive and well in America.
This is just absolutely crazy.
She was verbally attacked
by a group of men.
And I heard
distinctly them saying
"Donald Trump."
...where a hate crime
is being investigated...
...third consecutive year
a noose has been found
on campus.
Bitter, brutal hate crimes
that are on the rise.
17% increase.
20% increase.
55%.
Hate crimes have surged...
More than 7,200 hate crimes.
A noose was found
in Bubba's garage.
It's not about racing.
It's about race.
The Jussie Smollett
hate crime case
shows what appears to be a noose
around the Empire actor's neck.
You could not get more
reprehensible than a noose.
We have a media that's saying
it's a debate whether or not
what just happened
to Jussie Smollett
is a hate crime. It's absurd.
I've been truthful
and consistent
on every single level
since day one.
Right now, there is a domestic
terrorism prevention bill
moving through the house.
The COVID-19 Hate Crimes Act.
Thank you.
The hate crimes task force
is investigating...
- Hate crimes.
- Hate crimes.
- Hate crime.
- Hate crime.
Hate crime.
Hate crimes.
Thoughts?
I think that
hate crimes are bad.
Hate in general, uh,
is not good.
But they're everywhere now.
- No.
- It's an epidemic.
No, it's... it's not.
Well, out of, what,
20 million index crimes a year,
there are 6,000,
7,000 hate crimes.
No, there's no epidemic.
This is one of those things
where there's a huge disconnect
between media presentation,
and this really is something
I research professionally.
And one of the reasons
that you're probably
talking to me also is I wrote
the book, Hate Crime Hoax,
and I mean, I noted
that over a period of maybe...
You wrote the book called what?
Uh, Hate Crime Hoax.
I pointed out
that a lot of these incidents,
Jussie Smollett, uh,
Covington Catholic,
Yasmin Seweid,
Duke lacrosse, Bubba Wallace...
Terrible story.
Uh, but they didn't happen.
That's the thing.
None of those stories
that I'm mentioning happened.
I mean, you can just go
on and on with this.
Uh, Kansas State,
the horrible racial epithets
written on upscale vehicles...
Okay. Let... Let's...
Let's slow down here
for a moment.
So you wrote the book,
Hate Crime Hoax?
Yes.
We're missing a word
in our notes on that.
Uh...
That's an issue
from the producer there
if it just says "Hate Crimes,"
or "Hate Crime Epidemic,"
or something like that.
Yeah.
Uh, and you say
that you're Black?
Yes.
Don't the statistics
show that anti-Black hate crimes
are a huge problem?
If you break down
the statistics.
Well, I think that depends
on your definition
of a huge problem.
I mean, so the...
One of the biggest problems.
No. The statistics absolutely
do not show that.
What are the statistics?
If you go into
the FBI numbers annually,
there are maybe 7,000
actual reported,
documented hate crimes
- in a typical...
- In a day?
No, in a typical year.
But the total number of crimes
in the United States,
more than 2 million committed
by African Americans.
Almost a million committed
against African Americans.
This is just violent crimes.
And it's just the case
that there are way more crimes
than there are hate crimes.
No one thinks
that direct racial conflict
is one of the biggest problems
in the country
unless they've been told
by the media that it is.
Uh, why are we talking
about statistics?
This is not a matter
of statistics.
Well, you asked me
about the statistics.
Every week practically,
we hear another story about
someone reporting a hate crime.
Let's say, they find a noose.
Uh, they found a r*cist note
on a receipt.
So, saying there's
a hate crime every week
is absolutely meaningless.
If you really wanted
to solve crime,
you'd talk about
Black-on-Black crime,
you'd talk about addiction
in poor white communities.
You'd talk about almost anything
but what the major media
seems intent on focusing on.
Most of those stories
turn out to be complete fakes.
It seems like
the real conversation to have
would be about
something like hysteria
and neuroticism among Americans.
It becomes an opportunity
for a conversation
about race in America.
And we can always use
more of that.
I absolutely disagree...
With what part?
That we can...
I disagree with all of that.
Have you heard yet that
I'm a certified DEI expert?
Here's my certification.
"DiversityInclusion
Training.com.
"Making compliance fast,
easy, and painless."
You don't need
to read that much.
- Just... Yeah, give it back.
- I... I don't know...
- something...
- That's not the point.
The demand for racism
in society right now
greatly outweighs the supply.
We've attached a sort of value
to being a victim.
People report these crimes
because they know the response
will be immediate.
It will be sensationalistic.
It will be very supportive.
Why would Jussie Smollett
say what he did?
The entire thing
was complete nonsense,
and I think most serious people
knew this from the beginning.
If it was such
an obvious hoax, then why...
why didn't we hear it
from the media?
From, uh, Kamala Harris,
all the late night talk shows.
The question is not,
why would they ever
say something that's not true?
It's, sort of,
why do we believe?
Because this had
a major national impact.
This itself impacted
race relations
by a couple of points.
Despite what the statistics say,
this country isn't safe
for people of color.
I've heard it over and over.
If only I could walk
in their shoes,
then I'd really know
what they go through.
Looks cold out there.
It's two o'clock in the morning.
Man, I'm hungry.
You're going to Subway.
Where can I get food
at this hour?
Subway is open 24 hours.
Like, people k*ll me when
they say things like that.
Because it's like, Subway is
open 24 hours for a reason.
So that when you hungry at night
and you ain't got no food,
you go to Subway.
What happened
that night, Jussie?
I went to the Subway
and got the order.
You have to understand also
that it's Chicago. In winter.
I, uh, heard as I was crossing
the intersection,
I heard, "Empire."
Daily Wire.
And I don't answer
to "Empire."
My name ain't Empire. Uh...
And I didn't answer.
I kept walking,
and then I heard,
" Empire..."
So I turned around,
and I said...
"The did you just say to me?
And I see...
the uh, attacker.
Uh, masked.
...that I had said
that they were wearing
MAGA hats, I never said that.
And... he said,
- " This MAGA country, ."
- This MAGA country.
Punches me right in the face.
So I punched his a*s back.
Hmm?
And then, um,
we started tussling,
you know, it was very icy.
Fighting, fighting, fighting.
There was a second person
involved, who was kicking me
in my back.
And then I...
I smelled bleach.
I know the smell of bleach.
Hit him with the bleach!
Hit him with the bleach!
Then it just stopped.
And...
they ran off.
And I... Then I looked down,
and I see
that there's a rope
around my neck.
You hadn't noticed it before...
No. 'Cause it was so fast.
I noticed the rope
around my neck,
and I started screaming.
And I said, "There's a
rope around my neck.
If the attackers
are never found,
how will you be able to heal?
Um...
I don't know.
Let's just hope that they are.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, let's...
let's not go there yet.
On second thought,
I don't really feel like Subway.
Hi, Robin.
Robin DiAngelo.
It's an honor.
It's an honor to meet you.
It... Damn it.
It's nice to meet you,
Robin DiAngelo.
Dr. Robin DiAngelo.
Is there a, uh, Mr. DiAngelo?
Asking for a friend.
Someone of your esteemed...
Stupid.
Robin. Would you sign my book?
Your book. Would you sign
my book I have of yours?
I'm pleading with you
to sign my...
Please, would you sign my book?
"To your friend, uh, Matt."
Okay.
This is it.
Don't screw this up.
Don't mess this up.
Let's do the work.
- Hi, Robin.
- Hi.
And what's your name?
- I'm Matt.
- Matt. Hi, Matt.
Nice to meet you.
I just had to ask
who you are because
you have to be careful.
You can never be too careful.
Let's... Let's start
with the book.
One of the most important
books of the past century,
I would say, for my money,
White Fragility.
Uh, you've been in this field
for a long time.
You've done a lot.
What sort of organizations
have you, uh, worked with?
Do you want me to name?
Oh, sure. I mean...
Should I name it? I...
Okay. Well, but I don't want
to be held responsible
for what they do.
Netflix.
Google. Amazon. Snapchat.
And what do you do for them?
Sometimes it's a workshop,
or it's interactive.
Maybe it would take place
over several hours or a day.
Let's start
with some definitions.
And probably the biggest one
to define is racism.
Well, if you're talking
about a white person,
and you say
this person is r*cist,
you're basically, to me,
saying this person
is a product of their society.
Is it possible
for a white person
to be not r*cist?
I think, in a given moment,
we can be more or less r*cist.
We're... And so I think of it
more as a continuum
than an either-or.
Is there any way to get rid
of, uh, white privilege?
If an individual says,
"I don't want to have this
privilege, it feels unfair."
Is there any way
for a man to say,
"I don't want this privilege"?
I mean, we live in patriarchy.
And you can't just opt out.
You can do your best
to challenge it.
That, in a way, is opting out.
That confuses me too,
because I don't want
to mansplain
- or whitesplain...
- Yeah. Well, okay.
What is...
Maybe that's important.
- Yeah.
- Segue. What is "mansplain"?
Well, it would be you
explaining to me
either why what you just did
wasn't sexism?
Or explaining...
I don't think that's what it is.
I think "mansplain"
is to make an assumption.
To say something
in an assuming way.
You talked about
the problem of, uh...
of over-smiling...
...which
really resonated with me.
Sometimes smiling
at a Black person
can... can be r*cist.
It's a reminder. You know,
those thousand daily cuts.
It's a reminder of your position
in relation to
that other person, right?
Because that person likely knows
why I'm smiling at them.
When I go to the grocery store,
I don't really look at anybody,
I just do my thing,
but I see a Black person,
I... I feel almost
an uncontrollable
sense of urgency
to signal to them
that I'm okay,
and that I'm not r*cist,
and that they're welcome.
Is it the right strategy
to be...
for a white person to say,
"Well, hey,
I'm just going to operate
"in this situation
as a normal person.
"I'm not gonna think about race.
"I'm not gonna notice."
Just see people
as human beings.
Is that the way it works?
Yeah, no. First of all, you do
see them as a Black person.
You do. I mean,
I'm not gonna pretend
I don't notice
that there's a Black person
- in the grocery store.
- So we want to notice race,
but not... not too much.
We want to be honest that we do.
We do notice race.
We don't notice it.
Don't focus on it.
- Yeah. Okay.
- But think about it.
But...
I mean, you notice it.
Focus on it a little bit,
but not too much.
Yeah. You know, there's a...
It's a balance, right?
'Cause I hear
"forget that I'm Black.
"Don't forget that I'm Black.
"Notice. Don't notice.
"Don't deny that you're r*cist.
"But also try not to be r*cist.
"But don't... But also
don't realize that you..."
It makes me...
- Yeah.
- It makes me, uh...
I'm sorry. I...
- It's okay.
- It just...
- It makes me feel overwhelmed.
- Yeah. Yeah.
Just take your time.
I know you work on this
in your seminars.
People, uh, workshopping
actual real-life scenarios.
So would you mind,
kind of a role play where...
- Okay.
- ...I will, in this scenario,
be the person of color
who's bringing concern to you,
and then you'll show
how to navigate that?
Sure.
Okay. So, workplace scenario.
- Hi, Robin.
- Hi.
I noticed, uh,
you passed by me in the hall
earlier today
and you were
really overdoing the smile,
and it made me feel, um,
patronized and it felt r*cist.
And...
I'm thinking about
going to HR about it.
Well, I appreciate you
letting me know,
and I imagine
that's not without its risks.
I certainly would not
have intended
to have that impact on you,
but I'm very clear
that I did have
that impact on you.
I would love
to offer you a repair,
if... if that's something
you're ready for.
I don't want to talk about it
right now.
- Okay.
- Because I'm too... I'm hurt.
Okay. Understood.
Um, if that changes,
let me know.
When I'm ready to talk,
I'll talk to you.
Yeah. Understood.
What I would like to do,
could we...
Let's fast-forward
to another day.
- Next day.
- Okay.
Hi, Robin.
Passed by in the hall
again and...
this time, you didn't
even smile at all at me...
- Okay.
- ...and it made me feel
otherized, excluded,
marginalized, um...
vaporized...
Now I'm really thinking
about going to HR.
- I don't feel comfortable...
- Yeah.
...with you
in this workplace with me.
Okay. And yesterday,
we had
the over-smiling incident.
- Yeah. Now it's under.
- Okay.
It's under-smiling.
I would say, um,
"I'm a little bit...
I'm a little bit, um,
"confused about
how best to proceed.
"I can't deny that I am, um...
"Would you be willing
to give me some guidance..."
I don't think it's up to me
- to educate you.
- Understood.
Is there anyone you trust,
uh, that I can talk to?
Maybe another white person
whose understanding...
At this point, I think
we should
take separate hallways.
Okay.
- So...
- Understood.
That was a very nuanced,
uh, situation.
Yeah, uh, I did my best.
Probably what I would do
in that situation.
The very last thing
that I want to do,
and, uh, it doesn't even
feel right to me
to end this conversation,
uh, especially when
there are people of color
- in the room.
- Okay.
Ben, if you're willing
to come and sit with us
for just a moment.
- Sure.
- Um...
So is Ben...
Yeah. This is Ben, uh,
producer on the film.
And, um...
I thought it would be
a powerful opportunity to
speak directly
to a person of color and
confront our racism
and also apologize for
the white supremacist systems
that oppress Ben,
so do you want to go first?
Well, on behalf of myself
and my fellow white people,
I apologize.
Uh, it is not you, it is us.
As long as I'm standing,
I will do my best
to challenge it.
I want to pay you
reparations right now.
Um, will you accept?
I... I won't turn it down.
Okay. I don't know...
um...
is 20... well...
This is all I have. Um...
I, uh...
- I know that's not...
- Um...
That's not gonna...
That doesn't make up
for 400 years of oppression,
but, um,
it's all that I have to give.
Um...
I... I don't know
if it's ever enough.
Uh, but what I can say
is I appreciate the fact
that you're putting in the work.
Um, you know, I...
I think you're right.
I don't think...
I don't think it'll ever end.
But, uh, there is...
there is small progress
I think we made today.
Um...
Did you... Did you want to...
- That...
- ...pay any, uh...
That was really weird.
Why was it weird?
Uh... Uh, 'cause it seemed
really weird to me.
Why?
Um, because you just
took out your wallet,
and I don't know, it...
'Cause I think
reparations is like a...
a systemic, um...
dynamic and approach and so,
I mean, I think that
there may be some people who
would be offended by, uh...
Clearly, you were
not offended by that.
I... I won't turn down cash.
- Um...
- Hmm.
I think, are we gonna...
Are we gonna allow ourselves
to be uncomfortable and...
and just do
what we can personally,
or we gonna sit around,
waiting for the system
to catch up?
Yeah. They go together, right?
Yeah. But this...
this is something
that I can do right now.
Why wouldn't I do it?
Well, clearly,
I mean, you did it,
and he...
he was comfortable with it.
I just, it seems like it's...
uh, not a systemic approach.
- Or it just seemed...
- It's not.
'Cause I'm not waiting
for the system.
- I'm acting as an individual.
- Yeah.
I can go get some cash,
for sure.
In my... Yeah.
If that's something
you... you think...
Yeah. I don't mind.
Um...
If that would be something
that would be comfortable
for you.
- Yeah.
- Okay. Cool.
- That's all the cash I have.
- Oh, well, you know.
I don't usually carry cash.
- Thanks.
- You're welcome!
Um...
This is powerful to me.
I thank you for...
Sure.
...for doing that.
Well, the last thing is,
will you sign my book?
Oh, of course.
If you don't mind.
I'm definitely
gonna process that.
The student
has become the teacher.
My moment has finally arrived.
It's time to show
other white people
how to do the work.
And make a little money
in the process.
I'm taking everything
I've learned
on my anti-r*cist journey
and turning it
into my own online DEI course.
Now anybody can earn
their own DEI certificate.
And I've already made $3,248.
But for a more
in-depth approach,
I'm rolling out
an in-person workshop.
I'm calling it
the Do the Work! Workshop.
With the purpose of providing
practical and innovative,
long-lasting solutions
to promote equality
in our society,
Do the Work! Workshop
was born.
Our next guest offers a bold
and uncompromising workshop
that aims to bring
lasting change.
So what you're doing
is you're stretching,
you're stretching,
and this is more for you
and less for you.
You're stretching up like this,
- and you're stretching out.
- Mm-hmm.
What you're doing
is you're stretching
out of your whiteness.
Okay, so you're decentering
your whiteness.
You're stretching out
of your whiteness.
And you're bringing those
other experiences into yourself.
What exactly does it mean
to do the work
with Do the Work! Workshop?
What does it mean to you
to do the work?
There's a reason
we say "do the work."
And it is a work
that you have to do.
It's right there in the name.
You know, what is the work?
It's the work that we're doing.
It's about the doing,
and it's also about the work.
What is to do?
It is to do the thing.
We might also use the analogy,
another one I like,
of raking leaves.
Uh, the leaves of racism
are falling.
We're raking them,
they keep falling.
We rake them.
Uh, but you don't get
to a point where you say,
"Well, I'm done
with the leaves."
Then you have leaves
all over the yard.
How can somebody get involved
if they're watching this
right now?
Where can people
get ahold of you
and see you
for your next workshop?
We're doing the work
as we speak.
The workshop is happening
this fall
if you would like to sign up.
You don't need
to bring anything with you
but an open mind.
We're not letting anyone in
who doesn't have an open mind.
Uh, also, there's a fee,
of course, uh, as well.
That's described in the...
on the website but, you know,
the open mind is the main thing.
Matt, the certified DEI.
Thank you so much
for being here.
Thank you so much.
Finding white people
willing to do the work
isn't exactly easy.
So I also advertised
my workshop on craigslist
which, as we know,
is the best place
for finding white people
who are willing to do
just about anything.
Who's ready to do the work?
Anybody?
I know I am.
Welcome to the Do the Work!
Workshop.
Thank you all for being here.
Listen,
let's get the credentials
out of the way upfront.
Um, I am a certified
diversity, equity,
and inclusion expert.
Um, I have the card
and all that,
but I keep the card
in the back pocket
for this because I'm just
a person on a journey,
just like many of you.
But by the end
of the nine steps,
you're gonna start to feel
more like an anti-r*cist ally.
That ultimately
is our goal here.
Let's dive in right away
with step one.
And here's what we reflect
both externally and internally.
It's all about adopting
an appropriate,
uh, attitude of humility,
and also realizing
that racism lurks,
uh, many places in society
we don't expect it.
This may seem a little strange.
So I look around the room
and point to
who we believe, just by looking,
is the most r*cist person
in the room.
If you could point.
I'm out, guys.
- Appreciate y'all.
- Yeah.
- Have a lovely day.
- Thank you.
I appreciate it, but this is
definitely not my...
That's uncomfortable.
This is where I'm pointing.
'Cause why don't we think
about pointing at ourselves?
Why would we rather get up
and leave the room?
Let's go to step two.
This is a pretty simple,
basic anti-racism concept.
Racism is non-binary.
What does that mean?
It means racism
is on a spectrum.
What does that mean?
It means that racism is fluid.
You might move up or down.
So you might say, "Well,
"I'm kind of a three
on the racism scale."
Uh, but there may be moments
when you're a six,
when you're a nine, God forbid.
You all have numbers
on your desks,
and those are magnetized.
Where do you think that you are
on this scale right now?
Wherever you would
judge yourself.
Hmm.
So, everybody wants to be...
obviously, we've got
a little bit of a traffic jam
over at zero, one, two.
Let's just keep that,
we'll keep that up there.
We're gonna keep that in mind
as we move on.
Now, next we move on
to what this whole workshop
is really about, which is
uncomfortable conversations.
Because until we're willing
to talk about these things,
um, healing can't really begin.
So I want you to think back
to a r*cist moment in your life.
Just something that you remember
you did or said.
You wish you could take it back.
But how does the healing start
if we're not willing to admit
and talk about it?
I'll give you
a r*cist moment of mine
from two months ago.
And I'll tell you
exactly what happened.
I was at a traffic light,
in my car,
I see a Black man, man of color,
appears to be
walking up to my car.
What'd I do,
I check to make sure
the doors are locked.
And immediately I thought,
I hope he didn't hear
that little click sound.
Why did I do that?
I thought he might be trying
to carjack me.
Unconscious bias.
Now, in this case, the guy
behind me did get carjacked.
But does that mean
that the assumption was fair?
Anybody else
would like to share?
Number eight? r*cist moment.
When I was getting my license
when I was 16,
I was in the DMV,
and I was really stressed out.
It was, like, a terrible day.
Despacito was a song playing
on the radio,
and I was just, like,
so annoyed by it.
I was like, "Oh my God,
I've heard this song
"so many times," and I just
sort of, like, blurted out,
and I was like, "Oh God, like,
"can you please
turn off the song?"
The guy at the DMV
was a Puerto Rico guy,
and he just got really, like,
offended by it, and I was like,
"I'm so sorry, like,
I really didn't mean that.
"I just kind of yelled
at the song
"just 'cause
I was feeling bad inside,
"but it just came off
really bad."
And I still feel bad
about that every day.
It was r*cist.
We're not here
to lie to ourselves.
Now things are getting
heated up.
Now we move on to step six.
Over-smiling.
When you're in a room
with a Black person
or person of color,
there's this compulsion
that people have
to smile too much.
You're overcompensating.
I like to put words into action,
so Ben, if you wouldn't mind.
Ben.
Uh, let's... for Ben here.
Thank you.
Thanks, Ben. Now, Ben is going
to stand here, and
let's try to look at Ben
in the least r*cist way
that we know how.
Well, number two, you're not
even looking at him.
I think he's not looking
at us, so it's kind of awkward
to look at someone
like they're a specimen.
If that makes sense.
Like the...
the exercise itself
is a little awkward, and...
It's not his job as a Black man
to make us feel comfortable
in this moment.
That's not what
I was saying though.
Hmm.
Thanks, Ben.
Now we're gonna really
take the gloves off.
This is where things get real.
White silence.
White silence
is when we remain silent
in the face of bigotry
and racism.
Now, what we like
to tell ourselves is that
as long as I'm not using
the *-word, okay?
As long as I'm not
voting for Donald Trump,
I'm not r*cist.
By not taking action
in the face of racism,
we are participating
in that racism.
But here's the good news,
it's never too late
to break the white silence
and speak up against racism.
Things are gonna really get
uncomfortable now
especially for me.
Because what I want to do
is lead by example.
My uncle Frank is here today.
Come on,
bring my uncle Frank out.
Thank you, Ben.
Uncle Frank.
It was 20 years ago
that you sat
at the dinner table with us,
and not a day has gone by
that I haven't
thought about this.
You sat at that dinner table,
and you made
what you said was a...
"joke."
You asked the question,
what's the difference
between a Mexican man
and a picnic table?
And the answer was,
a picnic table can support
a family of five.
You're still laughing.
We all laughed at the table.
I laughed.
But I was scared and confused.
And I was a coward.
But I'm not gonna be a coward
anymore, uncle Frank.
You had no right
to make that joke!
Latinx Americans,
they come to this country
and they work hard!
And your little joke
dehumanizes.
It is not funny!
Uncle Frank,
it is not funny to mock
marginalized people!
It's not a joke!
It's not funny...
Uncle Frank.
Okay. Who wants to go next?
Does anybody have
some words for Uncle Frank?
We're breaking
the white silence here today.
Uh, number six,
you're of Hispanic descent.
What are your thoughts?
Mm, I have a lot of thoughts,
but I just feel like
it would be wasted on him.
But I do have one thing to say.
If... With your permission.
You.
Yeah, man. You.
Mm.
I don't talk to anyone
in my family
because they're all
r*cist white pieces of trash
in a lot of different ways,
but the racism
is the biggest reason.
I have cut off every person
in my life,
including my mother and father,
grandparents, everything.
I do not give a.
Powerful.
The message, it's clear.
Okay, Ben.
Uh, if you wouldn't mind.
Thanks, Uncle Frank.
See you this weekend.
All right. Emotions are high,
and this is where
we finally get to step nine.
We have to ask ourselves,
are we ready for
the healing pain?
Now,
this is when we get to
the self-flagellation portion,
which is the final step.
- Wow.
- Would you mind taking a whip?
Thank you. Thank you.
What is...
Dude, this is ridiculous.
- I'm outta here. You're nuts.
- Me too.
- I can't do this.
- Um...
I tried, man. I tried.
I'm seriously done.
I said it was gonna
be uncomfortable.
Why weren't they willing
to whip themselves?
Wait. Why were these people
willing to whip themselves?
None of this feels right.
Um...
Hang on.
This is probably too far.
Okay, the workshop's over.
It's over.
That was...
That's step nine, so...
Yeah, it's over. Seriously.
Yep. Thanks. Okay.
What am I doing?
What have I become?
Am I making the world better
or am I just profiting
on people's racial guilt?
This is all wrong.
I followed
the anti-r*cist playbook,
and it led to disaster.
All across America,
many companies
have implemented a division
of diversity, equity,
and inclusion.
And it's important
to have this in the workplace
no matter how big or small
the organization may be.
Joining us this morning is Matt,
a certified diversity, equity,
and inclusion expert.
Good morning.
Morning.
Tell us about your journey.
It hasn't been great,
honestly. Um...
Yeah.
And what led you
to host this workshop?
Why is this
an important initiative,
and how did you go about
putting the workshop together?
We just did a workshop,
uh,
you know, it didn't go well.
Honestly, I'd...
It...
I think it's doing
more harm than good.
This whole thing's a scam,
I don't know.
So when we think
about diversity, equity,
and inclusion,
as we mentioned, there are,
um, keys to what an
organization should focus on.
So what would you say is, uh,
the key for the learning
that we may want to be doing?
Even if we're
not quite there yet, right?
Just, uh...
Just go live your life.
I gotta go.
Black, right?
Yeah. Thanks.
Haven't seen you
around here in a while.
Yeah.
I been out doing the work.
Huh?
Been doing the work.
What does that mean?
Well...
White Fragility
is a really great place
to start.
The reason we cannot
be colorblind now,
we're still working
on the problem.
I'm not going to pretend
I don't notice
that there's a Black person
in the grocery store.
DEI certified.
I'm here to help.
We live in
a white supremacist society.
Whiteness is even more
insidious than I even knew.
The only thing
about white culture
is buying things
and stealing things.
And whiteness also robs you
of your brain.
America is r*cist to its bones.
- Um...
- It has to burn.
The entire system has to burn.
"Why are you blaming me
for what my ancestors did?
"It's not my fault."
We want to rename the
George Washington Monument.
This country is a piece of sh*t.
Love is also
not always patient and kind.
It's not that much different
than n*zi doctors.
Republicans are Nazis.
Kindness is not
what is called for.
It's not funny, Uncle Frank!
You.
I can go get some cash,
for sure.
Raise a glass if you're r*cist.
Okay.
Let me know
if you need anything else.
You know, this experience has
really taught me something.
The anti-r*cist industry
says that America is r*cist
down to its bones.
And if that were true,
there wouldn't be anything
we could do about it.
White people could
only wallow in their guilt,
and Black people
in their victimhood...
But it's a lie.
It's a lie
meant to manipulate us.
Look, we'll never live
in a utopia.
We all know that.
But we don't have
to be held hostage
by these race-baiting
con artists
who want us
to be bitter and angry
and resentful.
They're selling us the disease.
They're telling us
there's no cure.
They don't say that I'm r*cist,
and you're a victim, because
that's what they think we are.
They tell us that
because that's what
they want us to be.
Well, it's time for us
to say no.
Yeah! Yeah!
Well, bless your heart.
I got a lot of tables.
Hey. You wanna hear a joke?
I wanna know, am I r*cist?
Am I r*cist?
Why do you judge
by the color of our faces?
Is racial division
just a plan by the matrix?
They burn down our cities
Then they get
called courageous
Instead of condemning,
the media give 'em praises
Oh, man,
what is the benefit?
When the media
ruin our images
If you a white male, you get
called a white supremacist
If your opinion and the
narrative have differences
Couple that in
with all the censorship
And the damage
they can do is limitless
No Brad Cooper
but celebrities defendin' it
Oh, man,
they gon' say I'm r*cist
But they call
everybody r*cist
I guess that mean
nobody is r*cist
Now it doesn't mean much
when you say it
When you say it
They gon' say you r*cist
But they call
everybody r*cist
I guess that mean
nobody is r*cist
Now it doesn't mean much
when you say it
They make you think that
there's no way you can win
Another news clip,
here we go again
Judgin' somebody
by the color of their skin
Meanwhile,
it's all comin' to an end
They ask why,
and I just tell 'em, listen
Are you mad because
we don't think you a victim
You made bad choices, then
you blame it on the system
Nowadays bein' white means
you can't have an opinion
Especially
if you Christian
Tell me, is it r*cist
to not want our cities
Burned down by these mobs
To not want our stores
always gettin' robbed
Is it r*cist to treat
our race like it's a god
Oh, man,
they gon' say I'm r*cist
But they call
everybody r*cist
I guess that mean
nobody is r*cist
Now it doesn't mean much
when you say it
When you say it
They gon' say you r*cist
But they call
everybody r*cist
I guess that mean
nobody is r*cist
Now it doesn't mean much
when you say it
When you say it
Will you set us free
From these chains,
these chains
Will you set us free
- Lord, set us free
- Sing!
From these chains,
these chains
- Will you set us free
- No! Sing!
Set us free
They gon' say I'm r*cist
But they call
everybody r*cist
I guess that mean
nobody is r*cist
Now it doesn't mean much
when you say it
When you say it
They gon' say you r*cist
But they call
everybody r*cist
I guess that mean
nobody is r*cist
Now it doesn't mean much
when you say it
When you say it
They gon' say I'm r*cist
But they call
everybody r*cist
I guess that mean
nobody is r*cist
Now it doesn't mean much
when you say it
One more time
They gon' say you r*cist
But they call
everybody r*cist
I guess that mean
nobody is r*cist
Now it doesn't mean much
when you say it
When you say it
When you say it
Will you set us free?
Whoo!
Set us free
Thank you for calling
the Boulder Bookstore.
How can I help you?
Hi. I was just in
the other day,
and I saw a certain book
that, uh,
I wasn't ready to read
at the time,
but I think I'm ready.
I wanted to see if you guys
still have it in stock.
Yeah, what was the title?
Uh, it starts...
So it starts with an "N."
Um...
I don't remember the...
I don't remember the author.
Um...
It... It's...
You don't know
the title of the book either?
Well, it... it's, uh...
'Cause it got...
It's kind of...
It starts with an "N"
and there's kind of, uh...
Well, there's...
It's like there's... there's
a vowel, there's consonants,
there's a vowel. Um...
It... It's one word.
I really... I don't know
how to look it up
without the title or the author.
Well, it's got kind of...
So it starts with an "N."
And then it's got kind of,
sort of, it's got an "I,"
uh, there, it... it's...
I guess... I mean,
we've got thousands of books,
so I don't really know
how to look it up
with just knowing the two...
first two letters.
It's "N-I..."
So it's like an "N-I..."
There's the... It's a "G..."
Is in there,
and there's another one.
Let me put you on a brief hold
and go check.
Thanks for holding.
Um, I'm not seeing anything.
I mean, maybe
try to think of the title
- if you can and call back?
- Well, it's...
Sorry, sorry.
I... I know the title.
I just can't...
I can't say the title.
- And I...
- Okay.
I don't know. I don't think
you can say it either,
so I don't...
It's a very...
It's a triggering title.
Uh, it actually rhymes
with "trigger," actually,
and, uh, so...
but that's what I was wondering,
if it was there.
Um, I mean, I didn't see it
when I just went and looked.
Okay. But you know
what I'm talking about?
Yeah.
It... It's that book.
- Yeah.
- Okay.
-Okay. Have a good day.
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Am I r*cist? (2024)
Moderators: Maskath3, GabrielAlejo2341, sidolanters, Maskath3, sidolanters, GabrielAlejo2341