01x10 - Amy Finnegan and Donnella James

[bunniefuu]

Hi, everybody.

We all know this is a trying time

for millions of people all over the world.

My hope is that these Oprah Talks conversations

can provide some insight

into our human experience

during this pandemic.

I talked with three nurses who are in New York City

at the epicenter of this pandemic,

and there are other hotspots forming throughout the country,

and I wanted to talk to nurses who are beginning to experience

what it means to be at the hotspot.

One of the nurses, Amy Finnegan,

is a registered nurse at Ochsner Medical Center

just outside of New Orleans.

And the city known for its joyous celebrations

now has a COVID-19 death rate twice that of New York City.

Donnella James is a nurse in the emergency department

at Ascension St. John's Hospital in Detroit.

Detroit is bracing itself as COVID-19 cases surge.

Michigan now ranks number three in states

with the highest number of positive cases.

-Hey, guys. -Hello, how are you?

Hello, how are you?

Hi, Donnella.

-Hi, Amy, how are you? -Hi.

-I'm good, thank you. -Nice to see you.

Donnella, you still on your shift?

I am done.

My shift ended at, like, 7:30,

so I'm done for the day, back tomorrow and Monday.

Well, I can't tell you how pleased I am

that you would take the time to join us,

especially when you all are so overwhelmed

in all the work that you're doing,

trying to maintain homes, trying to give all that you can

in service to other people,

so God bless you and thank you both.

-Thank you. -Thank you.

Thank you.

So what's it been like, Donnella, can you tell us?

I've never seen anything like this

as far as the severity of the patients

that are presenting to our ER, and not only the severity

but how quickly they're declining.

You know, we kind of knew something was coming, you know,

we're watching the media with all of the other states

that they were having,

but it just hit us, like, all of a sudden, bam.

So Detroit has now become another national hotspot

for this virus.

Correct, with the numbers

as far as the cases that have actually

been reported and the deaths,

I think it's way more than the numbers

because we're not testing everybody.

So I think once we start more testing,

we're gonna see a dramatic jump in our numbers.

In the number of people who have it for sure.

-Yes, ma'am, yes. -Absolutely.

And so what kinds of people are being brought in?

Young people, old people,

people who are underserved, well served--

what kinds of people?

Well, you know, we're in Detroit,

so we're in an area that has lots of comorbidities,

as far as diabetes, high blood pressure.

Some of them don't have primary care physicians,

so the ER is primarily where they're getting all their care.

Some of them aren't even receiving any care.

I think we're seeing a range of wide variety of ages,

but what I personally believe what I'm seeing is more--

it's affecting more of our middle aged males.

Like, anywhere between the ages of 45 up to 67,

would probably be a good estimate

of what I've actually been paying attention to,

that are coming in, those that are critically ill

that we're intubating and admitting to the hospital.

And one of the things I've heard, Amy,

that is the hardest, is having people die alone

or be alone, near death.

That is 100% the hardest part that we are facing here.

You know, so the reason that I got into nursing

is because I feel like I have a very nurturing

spirit about me, you know,

and nurses use their hands to care for people, you know,

and so you go through nursing school

and you come out and you say,

I am going to be that nurse that saves the lives,

I'm gonna use my hands, I'm gonna touch them,

I'm gonna hold their hand when they die.

I'm gonna say it's okay, you're not alone.

I'm gonna let 'em squeeze my hand and say,

you know, give me your pain, let me hold you, squeeze me,

give me your pain while, you know,

while we're doing this procedure for you.

You know, and we can't do that right now.

Right now, we're having to care from a distance,

and that is what is k*lling us right now.

As nurses, we are grieving that we cannot be with them

and care for them the way that we know how.

You know, so we're doing our best

with kind of what we got.

Yeah, I see you shaking your head, Donnella.

Yeah, you know, because most patients

who have come to the hospital usually have a support system

with them.

Someone always usually accompanies them,

family members,

and so with all of the restrictions

that we have now,

I mean, we're really stringent on visitors,

so we have patients depending on us as nurses

to kind of provide them with some support.

Or even that or just, we have to remember

that even though we're really concerned

about them as Amy says, we have to be cognizant

of how involved we can get with them.

-Mm-hmm. -But, you know,

and part of healing,

healing is caring and closeness,

and when they don't have that, I really do believe

that that hinders the healing process.

Yes, and Amy, I know there've been instances

where you couldn't--

where family members couldn't come,

and you used FaceTime or their phones

in order to try to connect people.

We did, you know, so I had a death, you know,

I was trying to keep this guy alive

long enough to see his family,

and we were able to use Skype,

so that we could, you know, say good-bye to his loved ones,

you know, and not that that's okay,

that is not how it should be,

you know, but it was just kind of all that we had

at that moment, you know, and they were grateful to me.

They were grateful that I could do that.

You know, otherwise, it was just me calling them

as much as I can,

me calling them between being in the room

and just standing outside and just saying hey,

I'm looking at your loved one right now,

here's what's going on.

You know, so right now,

it's just using our voice, you know,

therapeutic voice and therapeutic sense of self,

so we're not able to build these rapports

with these patients and these families

in the traditional way that we do,

you know, so we're using other means to do that.

I know what--

what every family member that experiences that,

even connection through Skype or FaceTime or however,

whatever means, is grateful for a nurse like you

who thinks of that and is able to offer them some solace.

Yeah, at a time when you wish you could be there

standing around the bedside of your loved one.

I know that what you just said is so true,

that I was speaking to nurses from New York the other day,

and obviously people who do this well,

who love this, you did this because you had a calling.

You had a nurturing spirit, you know,

that you probably felt your whole life,

and so now to be stepping into this moment

where it seems like the whole world needs you,

though this is what you chose, I'm also certain that you--

there's no way you could be prepared for this.

No, absolutely not, I mean, nothing prepares you for this,

you know, and New Orleans obviously is no, you know,

stranger to natural disasters,

Hurricane Katrina being the most,

you know, impactful one.

You know, and there's no way to even kind of compare the two,

you know, 'cause, I mean, we usually have hurricanes.

We know ahead of time that this is coming,

we need to stay safe.

-Right. -You know, and we know

that waters will recede.

We know that there will be a time to rebuild.

With this, we have no idea when this will start to recede.

We have no idea when we are gonna see

the light at the end of the tunnel.

We just know that we just have to keep pushing forward.

You know, and that's all we can do, you know, so,

that's the part that's scariest for all of us right now.

So Donnella, you've been in this for a long--

an ER nurse for 17 years at the same hospital.

But, and before that, you were a paramedic captain

for the Detroit Fire Department.

EMS Division.

But nothing's prepared you for what's happening.

Nothing, nothing.

I mean, not-- I don't think

there's any amount of education, training,

or experience that could prepare you for this,

because it's all new,

we're really learning as we're going.

Things are changing rapidly

as far as, you know, the proper care,

what's the best for the patient.

We're being innovative with a lot of the things

that we're doing, from PPE to, like Amy says,

as far as communication with the family

and the patient, and you know, we're doing the best

that we can with what we have, and the patients really--

I think the patients are appreciative

of what we're doing.

We're seeing a huge outpouring in our area from the community,

you know, with just how appreciative that we are

as health care providers, but nothing,

nothing could prepare you for this.

I bet you never felt so appreciated as now, right?

That's one good thing. One silver lining here.

Ms. Winfrey, I can't tell you how appreciative we are.

We have signs outside of our hospital

that says, you know, "heroes work here."

We got community involvement to where, I mean,

we've been getting so much food delivered to the hospital.

I mean, just today alone, we had four different entities

deliver food to us.

The other night, as staff was leaving

at the end of the shift,

there were neighbors standing outside

cheering as the staff were leaving.

So, I mean, that right there just really touches you

in your heart and makes you know

that you're appreciative and what you're doing

is the best.

That in itself is-- there's no reward that--

other than just, you know, that--

how they're appreciating us

that makes us feel good and keeps us going.

And I understand that, you know, you all are--

we all understand this, that you all

are putting your lives in danger every day that--

where you show up for work and you're doing that

because you are committed to serve.

What are you doing to protect yourself?

Amy, I hear that you take your clothes off in the driveway?

Oh, my routine is down pat.

Like, I strip naked in the parking lot where I work.

I get down to my bra and my underwear.

I put on, you know, the clothes I have in my car.

Everything gets double-bagged.

I come home.

It stays in the garage.

My shoes are in a separate box in the garage.

I have a towel laid down when I get home,

and I slide all the way to the bathroom,

and my kids know, don't touch mama,

don't come around me.

It's not 6 feet, it's like 30.

Stay away from me. Don't come around me.

You know, I throw my clothes in a double-sanitize rinse,

I get, you know, in the shower,

head to toe, washing everything,

my color's gonna be gone in about eight weeks.

You know, so, and then I Lysol the whole bathroom down,

and then it's safe, it's safe to hug mama

after that, you know?

That's your daily routine?

Daily routine.

Oh, yeah, my car interior's gonna be all shot.

I mean, it's Lysol everywhere, so...

Wow.

What are you doing to protect yourself?

Well, you know, I take my-- when I get to the car

in the structure, take my shoes off,

put my flip-flops on.

Then when I get home, I'm stepping out of the car,

I'm taking everything off,

I've got a laundry basket in the garage,

and I drop everything in the laundry basket,

except my underwear.

Then I run in the house, run up the stairs.

So we've got a huge picture window,

so I tell my husband, I hope nobody's

across the street looking.

'Cause what they see is what they see.

Right in the shower, come out of the shower,

and, you know, we don't do all the hugging

and comfort stuff that we used to do.

I have a 12-year-old daughter, so that bothers me a lot.

Because we're a huggy, comforty, you know,

lovey, kissy, me and her, she's 12 year old,

so I don't get to do that as much,

and she's okay with it, but...

-Yeah. -That's one thing

that I really do miss.

You find yourself hugging less too, Amy?

I mean, I'm not-- I'm definitely not spending

that quality snuggle time that I used to do

as much with my kids,

you know, so we're finding different ways to do things.

You know, like, we'll go outside and fly kites.

We'll do sidewalk chalk.

-We'll take bike rides. -Yeah.

So my quality time with them is definitely not

as huggy-feely as I am, because I mean,

I'm this little southern gal who wants to hug

and kiss everybody, you know, so, but yeah.

But now it's like, hugging and kissing has become--

their hugs and kisses are weapons,

and are weaponized if you are a silent carrier,

then that hug is a weapon.

And you love your loved ones

by distancing yourself from your loved ones.

-That is true. -That's one of my fears.

You know, coming to work, working the shift,

taking care of patients who we're unsure of

if they even have the disease, is that me not knowing

that there's the possibility of me contracting it--

the fear is not of me getting it,

the fear is taking it home,

giving it to my daughter or giving it to my husband,

or my elderly mom, you know,

because I would be that carrier that's completely asymptomatic.

That's what terrifies me the most.

Amy, I heard that, you know, you had

a very challenging week, and you're now taking

some time off for yourself.

It was more of like time off for my children,

because, you know, all the schools are closed

and everything, and so the teachers, you know,

decided to add another role to my already, you know,

ba*ls that I'm juggling in the air,

so now I am a second-grade teacher

and a kindergartener teacher.

So, you know, I just needed-- I got a lot of work for them.

I needed to take some time off,

but also I kind of found myself in a funk,

after I did a pretty long stretch.

I did seven days, and I had one day off

in between those seven, and so I kind of came home

and I found myself absolutely depressed.

And I was in a funk, and I was crying,

every single night, and I couldn't get out of it,

and so I said, you know, if I can't take care of myself,

I cannot continue to take care for people,

You are right. You are right.

To just mentally recharge myself.

That way I can face it head on again.

Well, I'm so glad that you had the wisdom to do that,

because we all know that if you are operating

on an empty tank, you don't have anything left

to give anybody else,

so you all need to take care of yourselves

in the midst of all this as best as you can.

What are you doing to keep yourself whole?

You know, I just, I pray.

I sit back and I, you know, just regroup,

get my thoughts together, just to refocus

of why I do this, why I enjoy doing it

and not only the importance of why we're doing it.

I have a great support system at home.

My husband is phenomenal.

So even when I'm at work and, you know,

we get those days where it's really, really busy

and we've got lots of sick patients,

I send him a text and he usually sends me back

something inspirational, usually "you got this,"

"they need you," "stay strong, we're here for you."

So that really helps me a lot.

Mm.

And so, throughout this whole time,

I know that you all's focus has been on other people.

We the people, we the public,

want to do what we can to help you.

How could we best serve you in this moment?

Stay at home.

I mean, it's really important, and I don't--

Yeah, I thought you were gonna say that.

-What, the stay at home? -Yeah.

Social distancing is so important.

Especially knowing now that individuals

can be carriers and be completely--

-And asymptomatic. -Asymptomatic, correct.

I've seen a couple videos on Facebook

over the past couple days, and it's really

been disheartening because we're seeing a lot

of our young individuals in our community that are out,

and they're grouped together in locations,

and they're totally downplaying what's going on,

and I can tell you firsthand, from what we're seeing,

I'm sure what Amy's seeing, this is real.

This is serious.

Even though if it may not have affected you personally--

-Yet. You yet. -Yet, absolutely.

At some point, someone you know is gonna be affected by it,

and you know, you need to do your part

and make sure that you're not the factor

that contributed to that individual getting it.

Yeah, Amy.

This is very, very scary.

You know, what's scary is that, you know,

people don't understand how real it is.

People don't understand.

They don't see the sickness. They don't see that.

They just see the news, and they see the numbers,

and they'll see, you know, oh, you know, social distancing,

I can still go hang out with my friends

at the lakefront, as long as I'm 6 feet away.

I can still go to the grocery store.

I can still do these things. No, you can't.

Stay home, stay healthy, take care of your loved ones,

because you might be next

or someone that you know might be next.

And once it hits you, I mean, it hits you,

and that's it, it's too late.

Mm.

What gives you hope right now, ladies?

Honestly, the only thing that gives me hope right now

is that we will beat this.

You know, there will be a day when movie theaters

will be full and restaurants will have

long wait lines and museums will open

their doors once again,

and humanity will be restored, you know,

and people will no longer take for granted

the time that they spent working

and the time that they were home bored,

and people will find a balance.

You know, that is the only thing

that gives me hope,

that we will get through this together.

Yeah, I think my hope is that--

what gives me hope is-- I agree with Amy,

at some point, you know, we're gonna see the light

at the end of the tunnel.

You may not be able to see it now,

but I really am optimistic that we are going to beat this,

and if nothing else, this is an opportunity

for individuals to get closer with their families,

their home-- enjoy this time.

You know, start to discover who you are,

you know, with being at home.

It's not isolation.

-It is not. -It's not isolation.

It's more of a coming together.

You're with family.

You're not isolated.

You can still go outside.

You know, go in the yard, enjoy the sun.

Start to really pay attention to those small things around us

that we tend to take-- we take advantage of, you know?

And, you know, I certainly do believe that,

and I'm hoping that, you know,

a lot of the world is getting that message.

How is the morale?

I mean, before I stepped in, I saw--

you all are at different parts of the country

and yet you were speaking to each other

like you'd known each other forever.

-There seems to be-- -There's my scrub sister.

There seems to be this bond of connection,

and I'm hearing that in hospitals,

in emergency centers throughout the country and even the world,

the bond and the sense of connection

with the health care workers is now stronger than ever,

is that true?

Yeah, I think so,

I think the camaraderie is phenomenal now.

We're coming together. We all have a mission that--

we realize what our mission is.

Our mission is to come together.

That's the only way we're gonna conquer this.

Yeah, even though you're in Detroit

and you're in Louisiana, you feel the connection, yeah.

Of course. Of course.

She's my scrub sister, you know?

Everybody has a scrub sister, you know?

-We rockin' the blue. -Rockin' the blue.

So everybody has a role, you know,

and it's not just nurses and doctors.

It's not just them that are on the front line.

I mean, there's so many people.

You know, you've got your radiology techs.

They're the ones that go in and snap that initial picture

of the patient's lungs that helps us to diagnose.

Like, okay, this could be a possible COVID patient.

You know, there's your physical therapists

that are coming in and they're helping us

prone people.

You know, you've got your NPs, your PAs.

I mean, everybody, even down to your environmental

services and your cleaners,

like, these people, they're going in

and they're cleaning these rooms.

Like, they need all of the thank yous as well.

Everyone has a valuable role,

and everyone is part of this team.

There is no job too big or too small.

It's like a big puzzle.

The puzzle isn't complete

unless all the pieces fit together,

and that's what we are now as a health care profession.

-We're a health care family. -Yeah.

That is one great silver lining to come out of all of this,

and that it's united people for a single purpose,

and that is for us to win this w*r against COVID.

Thank you both so much.

Amy in Louisiana, down there.

And...

and Donnella in Detroit.

Thank you both so much.

Our prayers, our true prayers,

not just our rhetorical ones, our true prayers

and our true accolades and praise go with you.

-Thank you. -Thank you, Ms. Winfrey.

Ah, thank you.

You can call me Oprah. The whole world does.

Okay, it's Oprah.

You can call me Oprah.

If I can call you Donnella, you can call me Oprah.

Thank you so much.

-Thank you. -Thanks.

Bye, y'all.

Bye-bye.

Bye, Amy.

Bye.

-Good job, y'all. Stay safe, scrub sister.

Good job, good job. Good job, good job.

Excellent. Thank you.

-Thank you. -You can go home now.

Strip. You can strip and go home.