02x35 - The Unseen Roommate

[bunniefuu]

- Did you ever move into the apartment?
- Never.

- But you would continue to pay the rent.
- Correct.

I found out that the rent hadn't
been paid, so that was a surprise.

He's responsible for that
rent money no matter what.

- You lived there alone.
- Mm-hmm.

And he was paying the rent.

Yes.

This is Judy Justice.

Emmett Moss
is suing his former friend

Nadine Drury for unpaid loans.

Court come to order. All rise.

Be seated, everybody.

- - - Hello, Judge.
- How are you?

Case #2015, Moss versus Drury.

- Thank you.
- You're welcome.

Mr. Moss, prior to leasing
an apartment with the defendant,

had you known each other?

- Sort of. Uh...
- Tell me "sort of."

So we met one time about a year prior.

We have mutual friends,
one of which had asked me to

get ordained to marry her and her husband.

So I flew in town to do that,

and Nadine was there at their house
when I flew in.

We saw each other for a few minutes,

and that's actually the
only time we ever met in person.

And there came a time when you
were looking for an apartment where?

I was looking for an
apartment in the Salt Lake area. Um...

- And where have you been living?
- In Seattle.

And where were you living, Ms. Drury?

In Salt Lake City.

- You were looking to move?
- Yes.

So other than that one time meeting,
when you were officiating

at a mutual friend's wedding,
you hadn't met before,

but somebody suggested that you were
looking for an apartment,

you were looking for a new apartment,

and perhaps you
could rent an apartment together?

- Yes, that... that...
- Fair statement?

- In fact.
- Yes, Your Honor.

And in what month and year
did that happen?

It would have been in
October of 2020

that this arrangement sort of
came to be like,

"Hey, maybe you should see if maybe..."

But you did in fact,
sign a lease together.

Who found the apartment?

- Nadine did.
- I did.

You did.
Prior to signing the lease, Mr. Moss,

had you seen the apartment?

- No, um, I mean...
- No is the answer.

Did you ever see the apartment
other than videos or photographs of it?

- No, I never saw the apartment.
- Prior to signing the lease.

- Correct.
- Also correct.

Correct.

On what date was the lease signed?

On the 7th of November of 2020.

The rent on the apartment was how much?

It was 585 a month each.

$1,170, Your Honor.

So 585 per month each.

You both signed it on the same day.
Did you move in?

- I did.
- On what date?

November 8th.

- And you were still in Seattle?
- Correct.

Did you ever move into the apartment?

- Never.
- And that is also correct?

Correct.

Because for whatever reason,
you decided to stay in Seattle.

- Correct.
- Is that work related or socially?

Social.

And then you contacted her and told
her that you weren't intending to move in.

Correct.

But that you would
continue to pay your half of the rent.

- Is that also correct?
- Correct, Your Honor.

And you were making a direct deposit
to the account to pay the rent?

Yeah. It was an automatic
payment from my account to the rental.

- To the rental office.
- Yeah, to the rental office.

Then you came to find that Ms. Drury

had stopped
paying her portion of the rent.

When did you stop making
payments on your portion of the rent?

In January.

So you pay either
full or partial for November

because you moved in on the 8th
and you paid December's rent.

- - - Correct.
- And you stopped paying rent in January.

- Why?
- I lost my job in December of 2020.

So I'm going to outline
now what this case is about.

Yes.

Mr. Moss continued paying his half
of the rent until you found a roommate.

- Correct.
- And you found a roommate when?

I believe I found him in February.

And he moved in in the month of March
and started paying his half of the rent.

So you didn't pay rent
January or February for two months.

Correct.

- And you had no work.
- Correct.

When you found
out that the rent wasn't being paid,

according to you, in order to not
impact your credit, you spoke to her,

she said, "I don't have a job."

You said, "I can help you out.
I'll send you money."

- Mm-hmm.
- Is that generally what happened then?

- Then I'll get into generally...
- It's generally what happened, um...

but there is a little more detail to it.

- I'm gonna let you get to the details.
- All right.

And you want that money back,
the money that you advanced her

in her time of need,
which was how much in total?

The total is $3,360.

She did at some point
pay me $300 back.

So the amount I am seeking is $3,060.

Okay. Are those figures accurate?

Yes.

And he gave you that money
not because you were good friends,

because you were a relative,

- he had met you one time.
- Right.

And he had in fact said to you,
"I will continue to pay my rent

even though I know you from
a hole in the wall,

I will continue because
I signed this lease,

until you find someone
to get me off the lease."

That's correct, Your Honor.

And your defense,
it seems to me, to this action...

Mm-hmm.

Is that he was really trying to
scam the government

by depleting his bank account so he could
collect food stamps or whatever.

No.

And as a result of that,
because he wasn't being honest

with the government,
you shouldn't have to pay him back.

I just want to know if
that's what I'm reading correctly.

- There was never an agreement on payback.
- No, no, no.

That... that's a different story.

I'm going to read this over
because, you know, I'm getting elderly

and I may not have recalled exactly
what you said in your answer.

It doesn't say that here.

It says several months later,
it's after you found a new roommate,

"Emmett randomly reached out
to me saying that I owed him money

and demanded that I take
out a personal loan to pay it.

I refused.
Emmett has some nerve.

Not only did he break the lease..."

Well, what difference does
that make to you?

He still was paying his half of the rent.

So now you have a whole apartment
by yourself and he was paying the rent.

- Right?
- Mm-hmm.

"So why does he have some nerve?

But he took advantage of me
and used me to scam the system."

Mm-hmm.

So that's what
I understand your defense is.

It is.

I have video evidence, Your Honor.

- Video of what?
- Of Emmett.

- Of Emmett what?
- Of Emmett explaining why he was trying to

get on assistance
and how he was like,

"It's fine for you to pay rent
with this money because I'm trying to

empty my bank account
so that I can get on food stamps."

- That is true... I can explain...
- Okay, just a second.

Let's say that's true. He's going...

I'm not trying to scam anybody.
I'm just trying to under...

Shh!

I furnished the down payment for the car.

Okay, so you bought two cars.

No, just one. I... I... Uh...

- - "I... I... I... - I...
- I..."

I didn't have a vehicle at the time.

Oh, you know, I'm not believing you, sir.

I'm really not buying this whole story.

Emmett Moss
claims his former friend,

Nadine Drury, owes for unpaid loans.

Nadine says Emmett
broke the lease they were both on.

- I'm just trying to get your mindset.
- Mm.

You know,
I hate people who scam the system.

But you got this
money from him, - Mm-hmm.

And your defense is that

he was trying to
scam somebody else,

so you shouldn't really
have to pay him back,

even though it was his money.

- It was his money...
- It was his money

that he took out of his bank and gave
to you for no reason

That I never agreed to pay back for a
lease that he was legally on.

He's responsible for that rent money,
no matter what.

You mean, so you get to live there free?

- No...
- Well, just a second.

So you get to live there free?

If he paid for it
for the months that you didn't,

you got to live there free.

He wasn't even living there.

It's not as if he was living there
and you didn't get to live there free.

- You lived there alone.
- Mm-hmm.

And he was paying the rent.

Yes.

Well, why do you think
you're not responsible for that

once you get back on your feet?

We never talked about a repayment.

- No.
- That's not...

Okay. Now, okay...

We definitely talked about repayment.

Now, I want you
to explain to me and be very careful,

because, you know, I've been in
the system a very long time.

So I know about social services,
and I know about the system,

and I know about welfare,
and I know about food stamps.

I know all about that.

- So you contact her?
- Yes.

And she tells you she lost her job.

- Yes.
- Let's pick it up from there.

Okay. So I found out through
the payment portal

that she hadn't paid rent.
Yeah. We're past that!

Okay.
I contacted her about that...

We're past that!

- Well, there was...
- Don't look up.

Uh, apologies.

- Um... I...
- I sent her money that night.

No, no, no, no, no.
You contacted the portal,

and then you had to have had
a conversation with her.

Right. Right.

To tell the truth,
you don't have to have a good memory.

Let's start with you
contacted the portal and...

you found out she
hadn't been paying her rent.

That was in January.

Correct. January the 2nd.

And January, she hadn't paid rent.

And you called her and she said to you...

She said to me that
she didn't have money to pay,

which I was aware of because
she had previously told me that she...

Uh, well, okay.

I was aware that she had lost her job.
I wasn't aware until...

Just a second. How did you become aware

that she had lost her job?

Because we were friendly with each other.

We were talking several times
a week via Facebook messenger.

Okay. Fine.
You knew that she lost her job.

Yes.

And I assume you knew if she
lost her job and you were speaking

several times,
you'd like to be very careful.

This isn't just calling the pay portal

and finding out that
this stranger who you met once

wasn't paying her rent.

- You were speaking... and you knew that
- Right.

She had fallen on difficult times.

- And?
- I did.

Um, I didn't...

Don't go up here. Right here.

I didn't know that she
wasn't going to pay rent on time.

- No, j-just a second.
- On... on...

You didn't know what?

On the second was when I found out
that the rent hadn't been paid.

- - - I knew...
- On the 2nd of January.

- - - The 2nd of January.
- Just look at me.

Mm-hmm.

On the 2nd of January,
you found out the rent hadn't been paid.

What did you do?

So I called Nadine to ask about it,

and you told me that she didn't
have the money,

and so I said,

"Okay, I have these extra funds

"because I..." at the time,
was also unemployed.

Um, I had been taking payments.

Apologies.

Um, unemployment payments
and then the COVID payments.

And what?!

The extra payments for COVID
on top of unemployment.

Because this was 2020.

Welcome to Inflation 101.

Right. So all of my payments

had been late and
had come in a lump sum.

So that is why I had...

Okay. So your unemployment
and your COVID funds...

- Yes.
- Came in in one lump sum.

- Correct.
- And I want you to think very carefully.

- Mm-hmm.
- And you're living where, sir?

- Seattle.
- Sea... With whom?

Um, at the time,
uh, I was seeking a roommate.

No. Where were you living?

So I was living in Seattle.

In Seattle with whom?

- No one.
- By yourself.

Yes. Uh...

Technically, someone was paying rent

because they had moved out.

No d...
You're looking up at the sky.

Sorry.

Don't look up at the sky.

So somebody had moved out
of their apartment,

- Yeah.
- Which had been prepaid in rent.

- Yes.
- So you were living there rent free?

No, no, no. This was my apartment
that I'd lived in for three years.

And someone else
had moved in and then moved out.

And w... they broke the lease. Not me.

They broke the lease,
but they paid the rent.

Correct. They... they paid their half.

I was still paying my half of rent.

I never defaulted on my
rental payments in Seattle, ever.

- And they were still paying theirs?
- Yes.

So we were both each paying our respective
parts of the rent

And I was paying rent in Utah.

And you were paying rent
where the defendant was living.

- Mm-hmm.
- Okay.

So I want you to think very carefully.

- When you got your unemployment
- Mm-hmm.

And your extra COVID money in a lump sum,

- Mm-hmm.
- How much did you get?

- What I...
- No, no, don't look over there.

You know exactly how much you got.

- Yeah.
- You don't have to think about it.

- Just give me a number.
- $10,000.

Well, that should
last you for a little bit.

And you've got $10,000 on what date?

I don't remember.

- Month.
- It would have been in November.

- Okay, so now she's run out of funds,
- Mm-hmm.

And you say to her, "I can..." Go ahead.

By the time we get to January,
I do not have $10,000.

I have much less
because of other circumstances.

Like what?

Like needing to purchase a car
for the girlfriend that I stayed in town...

- "A car"?
- Yes.

- And what else?
- Rental payments. That's it. Nothing...

You bought your girlfriend a car?

I did. Her car that she had was a beater.

- Um, and it wasn't safe.
- I don't care. I don't care.

Uh, what about your car?

- I did pur... like, use it down...
- - I... - I... - I...

I furnished the down payment for the car.

Okay, so you bought two cars?

No, just one. I... I... Uh...

- - "I... I... I... I... - I...
- I"

I personally didn't have
a vehicle at the time.

Oh, you know, I'm not believing you, sir.

I'm really not buying this whole story.

You're living by yourself with a roommate.

The roommate moves out.
Your girlfriend had a terrible car.

You don't live with the girlfriend.

- I don't... but the girlfriend was...
- But you bought her a car.

You didn't have a car,
but you bought her a car.

I had... If we need to
back it... back it up,

I had given up my car
in a, um, bankruptcy

earlier in the year because of...

And whose bankruptcy?

- My bankruptcy.
- Your bankruptcy.

- That is why I didn't have a car.
- It's getting better all the time.

- Okie-dokie. Okie-dokie...
- It was an interesting year.

That doesn't mean
you don't owe him money.

It just means I have to know
the characters that I'm dealing with.

- I understand, Your Honor.
- Okay.

While you were going to the program,
which you said it was in person,

Mm-hmm.

Were you getting any government assistance

that was connected to this trade school?

I...

- - "I... I... I... I...
- I... - I... I..."

That's either a yes or a no.

Emmett Moss has accused
his former friend Nadine Drury

of refusing to pay back loans.

Nadine claims she was used
by Emmett to scam the government.

So now you've got much
less money from the $10,000.

You bought your girlfriend a car,
you had to pay her rent.

- You paid your own rent,
- Mm-hmm.

You had other things
from bankruptcies that you had before.

So you have a little bit
of money left in the bank?

- Yes.
- Go ahead.

- So, I... That evening...
- Don't look over there. Right here.

- Now look right here.
- That evening of the second,

I paid Nadine a total of $710.

Um, enough to cover the rent of
$585, any fees it would cost her to go

and withdraw that money from the bank.

And she also asked for
extra money for groceries.

Just a second. You acknowledge
a $3,000 amount of money

that he gave you, am I right?

- Yes.
- Yes.

- You say that that's correct.
- That includes the money

that he's saying that he spent on rent
that he gave me for rent.

And he's also asking for his deposit

- I didn't ask for my deposit.
- That he had... the deposit

- Right.
- For the apartment back.

Okay, well, he's entitled.

There you have a new roommate who
I'm sure you got a deposit from.

- She chose to not... collect a deposit
- And if you didn't...

- What?
- From that roommate.

- Well, that's her problem,
- I agree.

Because she's
going to get the deposit back.

- Yeah.
- Okay, so that's reasonable.

She's going to get the
deposit back when she leaves.

And if you leave... if you leave the place

in good condition,
he was never living there,

so if you don't leave it in
good condition, then it's on you.

I want to know about this
video that she wants me to look at,

- Okay.
- Where you tell us some sort of a scheme

you have to get
more money from the government.

It wasn't a scheme.

Why don't you tell me about it?

So far we've got $10,000 that was
supposed to last you for six months,

and you blew it on
a car for your girlfriend.

- And so, you may not call it a scheme.
- Mm-hmm.

I want you to tell me why you
had to have a zero bank account.

- I didn't have zero bank account.
- Not...

- A more limited access to money.
- Mm-hmm.

What were you applying for, sir?

- So...
- Not so up here. So here.

Okay. I was applying for a
program to, um, go into the trades.

So it was like a work study program,

uh, like electrician, plumber,
that sort of thing.

And again, I didn't have a job,
and unemployment had completely stopped.

And as far as...

How many years
did you collect unemployment?

It was less than one year.

How many years had you worked?

- How many years have I worked?
- Yeah.

Uh, I've been working since I was 16.

So I've been 14...

Well, I'm surprised
the unemployment totally ran out

because they kept extending unemployment.

People were unemployment
for years during COVID.

When they cut me off December of 2020,
they did not re establish my claim.

- I...
- I kept applying, and it was denied.

So I don't know why, but it was.

What kind of work do you do now?

I work for customer service.

Okay. And the trade school that you wanted
to go to was to prepare you for what?

To be an electrician
was what I wanted to do.

- An electrician?
- Yes.

And was this an online program?

No, this was in person.

- Where?
- Um, it was in Seattle.

And how much did
they give you to go to that program?

They didn't give
me money to go to the program,

but the program was free of charge.

Okay, so the government paid the tuition.

Uh, I believe that it...

Well, somebody
pays the tuition, sir.

- Yeah. Yeah.
- The government pays the tuition.

Mm-hmm.

And while you were going to the program,
which you said it was in person,

- Mm-hmm.
- How are you supporting yourself?

- So...
- Were you getting

any government assistance that was
connected to this trade school?

I...

- - "I... I... I... - I...
- I..."

That's either a yes or a no.

- Yes.
- Yes.

I applied for food stamps
and got food stamps.

That is what I got.

So you applied for some sort of assistance
while you were going

- to this trade school,
- Correct.

Which you're not practicing now,

and you're not an electrician.

That is correct.

And in order to apply for food stamps,

you have to have a certain amount of money

is the maximum you can have in your bank?

That is correct.

Okay, so that's the fraud
you're talking about.

That's why he gave you the money?

- Yes, ma'am.
- Okay.

- I mean...
- Just... just a second.

I also gave her the money because

she was going to need
the... the money for rent.

Like, it was one of those
situations where it was mutually

beneficial for me to give
her the money, but it wasn't...

You're looking up at the sky.
I understand what happened.

So, I...

I wasn't going to have
any way to support myself.

I needed something to...

The... the $2,000 was going to
cover the rent for my place,

and my place in Seattle
and my place in Utah,

and then I wasn't going to have anything.

I understand that it became
mutually beneficial for you to advance her

- the money so that your bank account
- Yes.

Would have lessen it
so that you could receive assistance

and also get free tuition
at a trade school that you didn't use.

My intention was to use it,

and that changed my decision later.
That's...

Do you think the trade school

charged the government
once you enrolled in it?

Yes.

Yes, of course, they did.

And do you know how much the
tuition was in the trade school?

Yes. You have to know.

No, it was free to you,
but it wasn't free to the government.

- The government pays...
- Right, yeah. $1500

- was what I was made to understand.
- Fif...

Baloney.

You people really somehow
deserve each other,

but you owe him $3,000, madam.

Judgment for the plaintiff. We're done.

This court is adjourned.

I'm a little bit, uh...

shocked to be made
out as a government scammer.

I mean, I lost my job,
and I wasn't able and he bailed

on the... the lease that he signed.

Because that wasn't, uh,
ever my intentions.

I mean, I was alone. I had lost my job.

I just didn't have any support.

Definitely careful about
getting, uh, money from the government.

Just glad it's done.

Glad I don't ever have to see him again.

I haven't had to
do that since this whole situation,

and I intend to keep it that way.

You know, it's so unfortunate

because the plaintiff
looked like an intelligent-enough man,

able bodied, seemingly,
and he spent a lot of time, effort,

brain power, into bankruptcy proceedings,

trade schools that would be
paid for by the government.

Applying for food stamps, knowing
what the threshold for food stamps is,

so that he had to get rid
of a certain amount of money.

That seems like a lot of time
and effort that could have been

better spent gaining

- legitimate employment
- Skills.

Or skills at a trade school legitimately.

And it's just unfortunate that
some people decide to take the path

that I view is more difficult in
searching for ways to get free money.

- Really unsatisfying.
- Yeah.

If you think about it, unsatisfying.

Maybe going forward,
he'll take a different path.

Maybe. I doubt it.

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