01x03 - A Third Victim?

[bunniefuu]

Wild places.

Wilder crimes.

These are the stories of
the elite team that solves them

in the most dangerous
crime scenes in the world -

our national parks.

He's a danger.

This man has k*lled,
supposedly, two wives.

‐ It looks like
a freak accident.

‐ He learned that the death
of his wife equals money,

at the end of the day.

He hasn't had a job since 1992.

‐ I could have been
the third victim.

You never call
your old brother‐in‐law.

‐ Oh, my gosh.

How have I not seen through
this guy?

‐ The last thing I wanted him
was him going home to his child.

We felt like we were dealing
with a ticking time b*mb.

‐ Within days of Toni dying,
the park received a letter

about his first wife,
Lynn Henthorn.

And it was an anonymous letter,
but it said his first wife

passed away
in suspicious circumstances.

I thought, "Oh, my gosh.

This is two wives for Harold
that have died now."

A man having one wife die
is tragic.

A man having two wives die
is suspicious.

And I said,
"I think we've got a case."

Pretty early on
in the investigation,

Harold very quickly
got an attorney.

And we knew we were
never gonna get

another interview
with him again.

We needed to build a case on
purely circumstantial evidence,

which is
really problematic.

You know, of course,
you want a direct witness.

But the only witness was
Harold himself,

who was not talking to us.

We may know in our hearts
that Harold had k*lled her,

but we had to start
at the very beginning

and slowly build our case.

And then, also building
as much as we could

the history of Harold,
Harold's comings and goings.

So, we started questioning,
"Did he have a mistress?

Did he have another family
somewhere?"

All these trips
out of town, supposedly.

I seriously thought
that there may be

somebody else involved in this.

At that point,
I had gotten cell records.

And one of the individuals
that kept popping up

in his cell record
was Grace Rishell.

So, Grace Rishell was Harold's
former sister‐in‐law.

Lynn Rishell, his first wife's
brother's ex‐wife.

Now, Harold and Grace
are not related in any way,

but Harold and Grace
texted and called each other

all the time.

Harold's relationship

with Grace Rishell
and her four daughters

starts off
as totally understandable,

with Harold being a more doting
uncle and brother‐in‐law

than just about anybody
you'd ever meet.

We had to ask the question,

"Was Grace Harold's lover?

Is this why he k*lled Toni?"

They were very suspicious of me.

They were like,
"We're checking you out

to see if you have had

a romantic relationship
with Harold."

And I'm like,
"I am an open book.

And I will tell you
everything I know."

I was not romantically involved
with Harold. Um...

In December of 2007,

my husband, Kevin, and I
separated for the first time.

So, that was hard.

That was -
That was difficult.

We went through bankruptcy,
foreclosure.

We lost our home
right before Christmas.

I was devastated.

I did not want
my marriage to end.

I'd lost everything.
I mean, we had -

I had no savings,
no nothing, at that point.

And I thought of my girls.

When I was going through
my divorce with Grace,

Harold was involved

in trying to separate

my children's allegiance
from me

and put it on himself.

‐ Harold saw, I believe,
an exact way to fit in,

and bond with four girls,

which was the fun, goofy uncle.

Harold really began
to step it up.

He told me he helped
single women get on their feet.

Toni was a part of it,
and Lynn was before that.

That's what they did.

Grace sat with us for
five hours and talked with us.

We pretty quickly determined

that she was
not Harold's paramour.

Grace was concerned about
her children's financial future.

She had just gotten divorced.

And Harold said,
"I tell you what -

why don't you get
an insurance policy?

And we'll make the girls
the beneficiary."

At first,
the insurance policy seemed like

a gracious gift
that I could accept

because it was for my girls.

Okay. Okay, girls,
you're being recorded.

I want to try a still shot.

- ‐ Yeah.
- There's that one.

And we thought it was fun
at the time.

Yeah.

This is one of the things
he would do as, like,

you know, the fun uncle -
the challenges.

We talked about that
earlier, that he, like...

‐ There was an odd sense of, um,
like we were the family

that maybe Harold always wanted.

There's another Christmas one

where he just looks like...

He always looks like our dad.

People would say...

‐ It was like he was trying
to insert himself.

He was so present in our family.

He was on the phone.
I remember calling -

all the time,
he'd call my mother.

Um...

So, in about March of 2010,

the divorce was final,
and I'm gonna move to Texas.

I was getting ready
to take on a new job.

And Harold and I got into,
basically, a big fight about it.

He didn't want me
to take this job.

And Harold was trying to get us
to come to Colorado.

He gets really mad at me.

He's like, "You won't return
my phone calls."

I'm like, "Because you want
to talk for hours.

Harold, I don't have time."

Hey, Grace.
It's Harold calling.

Yeah, let's...

It's Harold and Haley
calling you for...

Gracie‐girl, it's Harold,

calling you
about 3:00 my time...

About 7:45 right now...

8:15 my time.

‐ I'm a mom. I'm trying to
work all these jobs,

start this new job.

You never call
your old brother‐in‐law

when you're dating.

‐ And he came back at me with,

"After all I've spent
investing in you,

pouring all of our knowledge,
all of our information.

And you're not grateful."

I saw him as being
very controlling

at a whole new level.

So, I called his broker,
and I said,

"I am not going through with
this policy.

No way. I'm done."

And then,
we dropped the b*mb on her

that Harold
never canceled this policy.

The policy had Harold Henthorn
as the primary beneficiary.

Her daughters
weren't mentioned at all.

And the policy was $400,000.

They tell me, "There is
an active policy on you."

I said,
"That can't be possible.

Yeah, there was one,
but we got in a fight.

I told him to cancel it.
That was done.

What are you telling me?"

She said, "There's one
for $400,000,

and it's paid through
till August of this year."

I was just shocked.

I definitely felt that I could
have been the third victim.

I'm like, "Oh, my gosh.

You're gonna take me away
from my girls?

These girls that you love,

that you've held
since they were babies?

What have I done?

How have I not seen through
this guy?"

‐ She was a means to an end,
another paycheck.

This policy was created
just prior to Toni's death,

so this
is not just after Toni died,

but before Toni died.

My mom was grieving
the loss of her marriage

and her family falling apart.

And I think Harold
was witnessing that,

and he was already planning
to get my mother close,

so that he could do
the same thing he's done

to Toni and Lynn.

I was thinking how
he tried to get me to Colorado,

how he tried to get me
to move there.

When you first start
investigating someone,

you don't know anything
about them.

And then, you start
deep diving into them.

My vision of who he is
definitely changed

from sort of this sort of
blank‐faced unknown to,

"I definitely think that
he is an evil person."

I think he's truly evil.

Early on in the investigation,

Yvonne Bertolet -
she relayed to me a story

that had happened pretty much
a year before Toni was k*lled.

She said that this wasn't
the first time

something bad
happened to Toni.

Looking at the timing of that,
we believe that was

his first attempt
to try to k*ll Toni.

One of the
very large pieces of this case

was insurance.

We had found out that Harold had

a $400,000 insurance policy
on Grace Rishell.

And what we uncovered
was that there actually was

a considerable amount
of life insurance

on Lynn Henthorn, also -

more than the family

actually was led to believe
by Harold.

Several months before Lynn died,

he and Lynn got insurance
on each other,

a $300,000 policy.

But she already had
an insurance policy on her.

So, why this extra insurance
at that time?

He received over $600,000
from her death.

And then, we see,
from the very beginning,

Harold gets insurance
on Toni.

Harold had told Ranger Faherty
in his interview

that Toni had
one insurance policy on her

for a million dollars.

Well, any investigator knows,
don't believe the husband

when they say
there's only one policy.

So, I submitted a request
to this sort of clearinghouse

for insurance policies.

And I said,
"Does anybody have

any insurance policies
for Toni Henthorn?"

I'm Steve Jensen.

And I'm an insurance fraud
investigator.

I was assigned by
the insurance carrier.

When I initially received
the assignment,

I realized that there was

a tremendous amount of red flags
in this case.

I'm sure that there were
at least four insurance carriers

who had issued policies.

He's doing this slowly
and over time.

There's $1.5 million in 2001,

a year after they get married.

There's another $1.5 million
in 2005,

after Haley is born.

There's another $1.5 million
in 2008.

And so, that door
led to another door,

which led to another door,

which eventually led to
$4.7 million worth of insurance.

‐ He's going to make
a small fortune if Toni's dead.

So, all of these
insurance policies

led up to,
at the end of the day,

Harold getting a lot of money
if these women around him died.

With Toni, looking back,
that's the thing that is

the most upsetting
about this entire story,

is we know now that
he probably didn't love her.

‐ I've known Harold for a short
period of time, but he's...

warmed my heart.

He does and says
all the right things

that a father‐in‐law
looks for.

He's a great salesman.

‐ If we could have known then
what we know now,

we could have
changed things.

After Toni moved to Colorado,

Harold started controlling her
communication with the family.

You would call her cellphone,
and it would go to Harold's.

So, Harold would pick up.

‐ I could hear her
in the background,

but I couldn't talk to her
like I used to do.

Yvonne.

Yvonne Bertolet
goes a whole decade

without talking in private
with her daughter,

because Harold was
so oppressively there.

He had to control almost
every situation he was in.

And if he couldn't control the
situation, he would get angry,

or he would get freaked out,
or he would cut that person off.

Everything about Harold
was controlling -

I mean,
every little detail.

After Toni and Harold
got married,

we saw them less and less.

She dropped out of her choir
that she loved.

She quit teaching
Sunday school.

And he's the one that called us
and told us that.

He had asked her
to give that up

because it was taking away
from their marriage.

That was one of the first
glimpses into his personality.

So, we started seeing things
being taken from her

one painful step at a time.

Looking back, we should have
dug into that more.

It was not normal.

Yeah.

‐ Okay.

Looking at the two wives
of Harold Henthorn,

both women were described
as extremely loving,

Christian women.

Successful, strong women,
but at the same time,

very manipulated by Harold,
very controlled by Harold,

that Harold controlled
the relationship.

One of the things
that Toni's personal experience

with Christianity taught her
was that women

are to look to their husbands
as the authority in a marriage.

That control is exactly
what Harold was after

in almost every relationship
in his life,

but most especially
with his wives.

I think he took
her confidence away from her.

I think he took
her self‐being away from her.

I later found out
from the neighbors,

they said, you know,
her face was empty.

She didn't smile.

It was kind of like
a blank stare.

She definitely was not
the person that she was

when she left Mississippi
to go to Colorado.

Early on, in one of the
interviews with Yvonne Bertolet,

she said, "I have to tell you
something Toni told me."

The Henthorns had a cabin
up at Grand Lake.

They had been up
at the cabin,

and it was late at night,
and something happened.

This cabin, remote area,

one night in May 2011,

it's him, Toni, and Haley.

And nobody else is around.

Haley's already asleep.

And Harold,
for whatever reason,

wants to clean up outside almost
in the middle of the night.

It's a small, one‐story cabin

with a fairly sizable deck

that goes to
a sloping area.

There's a broken light.

Harold was outside
on the deck,

and he called Toni
to come help him.

‐ And she was bending over
to pick it up.

‐ And what happens next?

Nobody really knows
for sure.

‐ Something hits her
in the back of the neck.

‐ They called 911.
This is 10:00 at night.

And in May, at Grand Lake.

It's pitch black out.

Her story to the medic is that
there was a broken light,

and she was picking up
the broken light bulb,

when her husband threw
a piece of wood over the deck.

‐ And it looks like
a freak accident.

Harold was going around
telling people,

"No big deal,"
whatever else.

But, you know,
we found out later that,

you know, Toni's actually crying
in the ambulance

on the way over.

And she said,
"What really happened to me?"

Toni ended up getting
transferred to Denver.

And the final outcome

was that she suffered damage
to her cervical spine.

She has a fractured vertebrae.

She has lingering numbness
in her left hand.

That's a big deal
for a surgeon,

and that's a bad outcome
for an accident.

So, you've got to
ask yourself a couple questions.

Why was she down there
picking up a piece of glass

at 10:00 at night?

And why did he throw
a piece of wood over the railing

while she's down there
picking up glass?

There's no police report, right?

There's no crime.

‐ Just too eerie to ignore.

Again, we have Harold's wife
in a remote location.

He's the only witness.

Late at night.

And then, varying stories
from him

surrounding the situation,
to different people.

At one point,
he says it's a 2x4.

At one point,
he says it's a 2x6.

At one point, he tells
the paramedic it's 20 feet long.

We don't know, but it's big
enough to do a lot of damage.

And he's throwing it at her
from a height.

‐ And she said,
"If I had not reached to get

whatever it was
on the floor,

I think that it would have
k*lled me on the spot."

‐ I really believe that was
his first attempt at m*rder.

And so, as an investigator,

you're looking at this.

You're like,
"What else is he capable of?"

And that's what we really needed
to dive into.

After we sat
with Grace Rishell,

we pretty much ruled out
the fact

that she was part
of Harold k*lling Toni.

But we still didn't know

exactly what he was doing
on these business trips.

Routinely, he would travel
on Thursdays, you know,

a couple times a month,
according to the nannies

and the witnesses
who we interviewed.

So, we started questioning,

what was he doing
when he was traveling?

Was it really for work?

Was this reason to leave on
these, quote/unquote,

"business trips"
a contribution to Toni's death?

The incident
with the beam at the cabin

is in perfect alignment
with the other two incidents -

the one with Lynn Henthorn,

and then when Toni Henthorn
did die.

Late at night,
remote location,

a pot of gold at the end
of that rainbow

which involved the death
of his wife.

It's a deeper level
of just...evil.

And I just thought,
"This is what he does.

He's got - This is his -
This is how he makes a living.

This is his craft."

Early on, we were working

with an Assistant
United States Attorney,

but he ended up leaving
and taking another job.

So, we needed to do
a presentation

to the United States
Attorney's Office

to see who we could get
assigned to the case.

We thought it might be
a tough sell.

And it was at that time
that we got assigned

Suneeta and Valeria.

My name is Valeria Spencer,

and I'm an Assistant
United States Attorney,

which means
I'm a federal prosecutor.

My name is Suneeta Hazra.

I was the lead prosecutor

for the prosecution
of Harold Henthorn.

Because
Rocky Mountain National Park

is a national park,

it is federal land.

‐ Which means that
the federal government

prosecutes them, not the state.

And I said, "Look,
you guys need to come up

to Rocky Mountain National Park,
and see the scene.

You have to see the scene."

So, we hiked up
Deer Mountain.

And then, we start going
off trail.

And they're like,
"Wait a minute,

Well, this doesn't
make sense."

I was like...

"See?"

We just turned off at nowhere.

There was no indication
that there was a spot

to turn off.

His story
that he told the rangers

is they went off
to have some romantic time.

There's just no way.

We knew Toni Henthorn
had bad knees.

We knew they were
in their mid‐50s.

You know,
it just didn't make sense.

And then, we wander
through the woods,

and then, we get
to the lunch spot.

And they have
the "aha" moment.

They look down
that rocky slope,

and they said,
"There's no reason

for Harold and Toni
to be here."

And as soon as
Suneeta and I saw the site,

we were totally on board
with them,

and said, "Okay.
We're in 100%.

What are we going to do
to prove this case, now?"

We started tracking
Harold's movements

and tailing him
to see where he would go.

But he stayed local.

He never left the area.

So, the question was,
what was he doing with his time

now that he
had k*lled Toni?

Is he a flight risk?

What is he doing?
Who is he meeting with?

The investigators
didn't have a smoking g*n,

but there's all sorts of places
where evidence might be lurking.

Are there bank accounts
we don't know about?

Then, there's also
a question of,

were there other women
that he may have victimized?

So, we needed to seize
his cellphone.

We wanted to seize
his computer.

We wanted to know
what files and documents he had.

And so, we realized
we were gonna have to do

a search warrant
for his house.

So, sometimes,
we take those things,

like the computers.

You don't know what
you're gonna find on them.

And then, other times,
you find things

that you didn't think of.

‐ And then, they find it.

And what they find
is evidence of the lie -

the biggest lie.

Every time you do
a search warrant,

you know it's gonna be
a long day.

We ring the doorbell.

We can't see
into the house.

There's no movement.

As we're sitting there,
the garage door opens.

And so, we go up to the car
and tell Mr. Henthorn,

"We have a search warrant
for your house.

Please step out
of the car."

It's a very nice house.

Not a lot of Toni presence
there.

When you enter his office,
he controls it.

It's his sanctum.

And it was full of stuff.

‐ What Harold was,
was a pack rat.

And so, every single
piece of paper

from the last 20 years
was in there.

There was file cabinets
full of thousands of files -

the boat, the cabin,

how much is in this account,
that account.

There were a lot
of nuggets there that Harold

didn't really count on,
or, you know, figure out

that we would be able to find
in that house.

There were tax returns,

which were very interesting
to us

because pretty early into
the investigation,

I became suspicious about Harold
and his job.

‐ We didn't think
he was totally unemployed,

but we thought he was
inflating what he earned.

I mean,
Harold's employment history

is really hard
to figure out, right,

because after college,

after graduate school
at University of Kentucky,

he does get a real job
at Chevron in Denver.

‐ For some reason, Harold
couldn't get a project done.

His response would be
excuse after excuse.

His supervisor
eventually ran out of patience.

And he was gonna get
fired, but ended up quitting.

At some point,
he's selling diamonds,

though, how successfully,
no one is really sure.

And then,
in the early '90s,

he went to
Colorado Christian University,

where he did
some fundraising work.

And because he wasn't
very good at it,

the supervisor said, "We're
gonna have to let you go."

And he came back the next day,
and said, "Oh, I'm resigning

because I'm gonna start
my own business."

That was the last
known position.

Over the course of 20 years,

not only has he not
set the world on fire,

not only has he not
closed all these deals

he's talked about every year
in Christmas letters...

...but Harold made almost
nothing for two decades,

almost zero dollars.

The tax returns show

Harold was making
absolutely nothing

and pretending that
he actually had some income.

He's not a businessman.

He hasn't had a job
since 1992.

He had posed,
for almost 20 years,

as somebody he's not,
and worked really hard at it,

going on trips and hiring
a nanny for his daughter

and creating business cards
and having notepads

with development services
on the notepads.

‐ It was as big a lie
as you can tell

about who you were,
professionally.

And he'd been living that
for a long, long time

and somehow
had gotten away with it.

It was clear that this case

was becoming
more and more complex.

And the FBI agent
who was working with Beth Shott

was moved
to another assignment.

And so, Beth's one woman up
at the park handling everything.

She was stretched pretty thin,
and we knew that

we were going to need help

with furthering this
investigation down the road.

I reached out

to Special Agent Jonny Grusing
of the FBI

and asked him
if he would jump in

and assist and work with Beth.

And I picked Jonny
because he has

a lot of experience doing
serial k*ller cases for the FBI.

Really a methodical,
good investigator.

My name is Jonathan Grusing.

I go by "Jonny."

I had not worked
with the Park Service before,

and I did not know
they had investigative agents.

I just thought these were
the very kind, happy guys

that pointed you to
don't litter

and, you know, "protect your
forest land" sort of thing.

He later told me
that he kind of felt

a little sorry for me that,
here I was,

sort of
spinning my wheels on this case.

So, I asked a couple questions.

Did Harold have any prior arrest
history, criminal history? "No."

Can you prove the difference
between a push and a fall?

And they said,
"No. You can't."

I said, "Well, you know,
I'm happy to look into it.

But just because he's a liar,
as you guys know,

the jury doesn't have to
find him to be a m*rder*r."

And so, we hiked up.
We did all of our work.

We showed him all the areas.
He looked at everything.

And he didn't say anything.

And so, then, Suneeta and I
were like, "Oh, no.

You know, here's a new person,
to see it with fresh eyes,

and he's not seeing it
the way we do."

Jonny, being who he is, a very
quiet man, doesn't say anything.

I can't remember
exactly when it was.

It might have been in the car
on the way back.

He was like,
"That man k*lled his wife.

He shoved her
off that cliff."

And we were like, "Yes!"

So, Beth had done
a tremendous amount of work

getting all the search warrants
and returns from Harold's phone,

from his computer,
the house.

They could prove
that Harold was lying.

They could prove that he had an
insurable interest to k*ll Toni.

But you couldn't prove
that he k*lled Toni.

Knowing that time
is of the essence,

if Harold truly k*lled
not only Toni,

but his first wife, Lynn,

and we had him still
running around in society,

we needed to act quickly.

‐ Yes.

Friends and family told us that,

once Toni had Haley,

it was almost like Toni was
a third wheel in that family.

It was our theory that

he wanted a child
very desperately.

And once he got that child,
he didn't need Toni anymore.

He had the person that he could
control 1,000%

above any wife,
or anyone else in his life.

And that was
his daughter.

So, you wanted
to build the case,

but you also knew
someone who we believed

had m*rder*d
two different people

and was living with
a young child,

was out there.

So, we all felt like

we were dealing
with a ticking time b*mb.

Toni was right under here.

We've got this guy, and we think
he k*lled both his wives.

And he most likely had
an inner circle of people

that weren't willing
to talk yet,

people that I knew had
critical pieces to tell us,

that may even link Lynn's death
and Toni's death.

‐ And the opportunity is gonna
be these remote locations

that he brings these women to.
Yeah.

We did try to interview
his family,

and they refused an interview
with us.

That has some really
eerie similarities.

The information
that we did piece together

from his childhood
was little bits and pieces

from friends that did
speak with us.

My name is Myra Whitener,

and I went to junior high
school, high school with Harold.

We remained friends
throughout our whole lives.

For all of us, honestly,
he was obnoxious,

but you just kind of
overlook that

because he was
so charming, too.

Harold didn't want to
go home a lot.

I think that's probably
why he hung out at our house.

‐ Casting around for ideas
of why Harold is who he is,

you can be way
too simplistic,

but, also, you can probably
be right at the same time.

And I think it all
comes down to his dad.

Our understanding
was that his father

was a*usive to him
as a child.

And we don't know
exactly to what extent.

He was an alcoholic.

He was violent.

It was bad.

That's one thing
Harold always said -

"I will never drink, and I will
never hit a woman," he said,

which is why it's shocking.

Oh, geez.

I'm sure that there were
some early warning signs,

maybe even going back
to childhood.

I'm Bryanna Fox.

I study
the criminal behavior

and basically why people
commit crimes in specific ways.

I think there's
a few different reasons

why he was so drawn to women

that were,
you know, loving, caring,

from these
wonderful families.

If you're from
that kind of house,

you don't have an example
of how to build a good life.

You're reaching and grabbing
for everything you can.

Harold always wanted
to have a family.

He wanted to be
a "family man."

If you're going to be
a good predator,

if you're gonna be a good wolf
in sheep's clothing,

you have to look
like a sheep.

Harold had to condition himself
to show emotion.

Lynn and Toni
were loving, Christian women,

and I think Harold
used that.

I think, for him,
they were props in his facade.

And he's all about presentation.

He needed everybody to know
how smart

and how powerful
and how rich he was.

Everything he's told me
about his jobs -

And who knows
about his education?

Who knows if anything
he's ever said is true?

He has lied to me about -

about everything.

He lied so much
that he forgot who he lied to.

People like Harold,
they're compulsive liars.

So, they will tell you
story one,

and if you raise
your eyebrows,

or if you blink too long,
then, they'll go to story two.

They could care less
what anybody else believes,

as long as you tell them
you believe the story.

He would tell different versions

of the story
about Lynn's death.

And then, he would tell
different versions of the story

about Toni's death.

A narcissist has no
empathy for people around him,

and every even little statement
has to go towards

a building up of the perception
or image of that person.

Having never met him,

it's difficult to,
with full certainty,

say exactly what
he may qualify as.

But cunning and manipulation
of others,

narcissism and grandiosity,

pathological lying,
very low empathy,

not taking responsibility
for actions,

constantly blaming others.

These are things that,
throughout this case,

we just see not one time,
but consistently appearing,

over and over
and over again.

The pattern is very strong
and consistent

that he shows many traits
and features

consistent with psychopathy,
of being a psychopath.

I think Harold is
different than most psychopaths

because he's not someone
who's going to hurt a stranger.

He's fine to strangers.

But I believe that,
the closer you are to Harold,

the more likelihood that
he's going to harm or k*ll you.

‐ There was concern,
after Toni died,

that Harold's attention to Haley
was almost too much -

that it was obsessive.

And some friends and family
voiced concern

that they were worried
for Haley's welfare.

The Bertolets,
their main concern is Haley.

At one point,
the Bertolets have this plan.

We were pretending that
we were supporting Harold.

But on the other hand, we were
an inside source for information

for Beth Shott and the FBI.

We're all
playing this game.

And the whole time,
you're thinking,

"This man
m*rder*d my sister."

And Haley was gonna
be alone with Harold,

without their influence,
if they confronted him.

So, that scared them, I think.

It seems very likely,

based upon the pattern
of behaviors

that Harold was exhibiting
over all of these years,

Haley, she could have
easily been at risk.

Or, if she was saying,

"No. I don't want to live
this way anymore,"

that could have ended
with her, you know,

potentially ending up
just like her mother.