01x04 - Honest, Responsible, Humble

[bunniefuu]

Early on, we realized that this was

gonna to be a very complicated,

not a run of the mill case and

clearly gonna to be a tragic case.

When we found Ruby's journal

cataloguing the abuse,

it became pretty clear to us

that Jodi is abusing religion

to cause others to do evil acts.

Ruby's journal gave us the timeline

of the abuse in her own handwriting

and her admitting to abusing

her kids in horrible ways

and clearly implicating Jodi being

present throughout that abuse.

It was frankly terrifying.

We know from Ruby's journaling

that the children came down

to Jodi's house in Ivans

towards the middle of May

and Jodi says something

to the tune of,

you need to discipline these

kids more. They're out of control.

The two youngest are showing

long patterns of selfishness,

their unwillingness to repent,

their unwillingness to feel sorrow

over some pretty egregious choices.

So, we're going to give

them the gift of repentance.

THEY NEEDED

THINGS TO GET HARD

It starts with disciple like, forcing

the kids to sit against a wall

like you're sitting in a chair

but there's no chair there.

Or carrying boxes up and down stairs.

Not to accomplish anything,

just as a punishment.

And then the discipline morphed into

denying food, denying water

and then

with forced labor outside.

These are all your distortions,

foo- foo there's hundreds of it.

And the root structure

is your core belief.

I recommend an axe of truth.

Ivins is down in the desert,

and it is hot in those summer months.

Do you know how hot it is?

Look at this,

our peaches, it's liquid!

We also know there were instances

of forcing these kids

to stand still in the sun on

a cement patio in the heat,

punished if they moved towards shade,

punished if they sought water.

There was evidence

of repeated sunburns.

Had we been aware

at that point in July,

that would have been

aggravated child abuse.

The boy has been told

by Ruby and Jodi

that he needs to be doing these

crazy physical things,

then he's going to go sit in jail

and do his punishment

that society would demand.

That's not true and parents

should never tell their kids

that they're going to go sit in jail.

But that's what he thought,

which, to us, was clear evidence

of emotional abuse.

He's being beat down in every way,

emotionally, mentally, physically.

And so, around the middle of July,

he is suffering so much that

he said he wants to go sit in jail.

And that's when he works

up the courage and runs away.

He does it

in the middle of the night.

And he's out in the middle of nowhere

in a neighborhood he doesn't know.

He used landscape pebbles

and he wrote a message

making it clear

to his mom and to Jodi

that he was running away

to go to jail.

He was trying

to find a police station

where he could ask them

to take him to jail.

And they catch him before he was able

to talk and communicate with anybody.

A kid shouldn't believe

that they belong in jail.

After the boy ran away, that's when

things started to go off the rails.

The children were kept in a closet

or in a small room

for extended periods of time.

The boy was regularly bound

for long periods of time.

When his legs had been injured

from handcuffs,

they told him that he should

ensure their circulation to his legs

by having him jump on the

exercise trampoline

in the sun

for hours and hours on end.

And we found that trampoline

with sweat marks

or other body fluid dried on it.

Who would ever do that to a child?

And so, we clearly have more evidence

of Ruby inflicting the abuse,

but we had evidence

that Jodi was causing it.

Pain is meant to teach you.

Pain is there

to give you an opportunity

to make different choices.

When I was living with Jodi,

she had this patio

outside of her bedroom,

there was only room to really stand

and I would have to sleep on that,

like curled up in freezing weather

and I would fantasize

about jumping off,

if I break my leg at least

I'll be in the hospital.

I didn't know how to make it stop.

But I had finally gotten

to a point where I felt like,

if I don't leave now,

I will never get out.

And I remember seeing it,

realizing the door was unlocked.

And so I left. I ran away.

Eventually a cop car picked me up,

took me to the police department.

I was put into a holding room where

an officer came and talked to me

and I told her like

the very bare minimum,

I'm sleeping outside,

I'm not in school,

Jodi instilled in me

that all I do is ruin people's lives.

And so, I was like, I can't destroy

her life, but I just wanted out.

And I was like,

can I just go to jail,

and they're like, that's not

how this works.

What do I need to do to be arrested?

The officer grabbed my hand

and said Jesus, he loves you.

And she's like, I talked to Jodi

and the reason why

you were sleeping outside

actually is they were giving you

a final chance to change your ways.

And so, then Jodi came

and picked me up.

I can picture that moment

so vividly of her coming in.

After that,

thing got significantly worse.

It was just unrelenting.

In December twenty-sixteen,

shortly after I filed for divorce,

my daughter, she's just this

sweet little two-year-old,

she had been with her mom

and my daughter returned to me

with a cut expanding like

her entire right hamstring

and I texted my ex-wife and I said,

hey,

could you tell me what happened

and she just responded,

she was playing outside.

I responded,

that doesn't really explain it.

Could you please explain

what happened? And she refused.

And the injuries continued

and became much worse.

I went to the police station.

And they asked my daughter,

what happened.

And she immediately responded,

mommy did it.

He called his on-call detective

who called the on-call DCFS worker

and she didn't take

any protective action.

And it was just

indescribably painful

cuz like no one would listen.

Probably the worst instance

of injuries my daughter sustained

was in November of twenty-eighteen.

It looked to me like she

had been in a boxing match.

She had bruises above

and below her right eye,

a bruise on her left cheek,

cut on her left lip.

And so, I asked

my daughter what happened

and she immediately looked

up to my ex-wife

who told her,

a mirror fell on you.

I reported it to CPS.

And I didn't learn this until later,

but CPS didn't investigate at all,

they just

didn't meet their clearing.

They said, the mom and the daughter

are saying the same things.

From what I've seen,

investigating Jodi Hildebrandt

is that she teaches that children

need abuse and t*rture.

I've personally observed my ex-wife

continue to use these teachings

after it's been shown

how destructive they are.

I just have to pray

that my daughter will be okay

and I have to love her as much

as I can we're together

to help her through this situation.

But it's discouraging

and it makes you feel hopeless.

You're kind of taught to trust

the system but the system's broken.

If you don't choose truth

inside pain,

you will default into distortion.

It will be the other choice.

That's what pain is for.

I didn't trust anyone

because I'd gone

to the cops, they did nothing.

I had family members see me

duct taped,

they did nothing.

And they know Jodi.

They f*cking know her.

But people started getting concerned.

Church members started talking

to the bishop.

And the bishop just went directly

to Jodi, gave them all the names.

And then I had to go door to door

apologizing to them

for manipulating them

into feeling sorry for me.

I had no one to turn to,

no one I could trust.

And I'm so ashamed that I don't have

the strength to withstand this

but if I don't get out now,

I'm going to die.

And so, I ran away again.

And I run, like, I'm sprinting.

Because I had no idea when Jodi

would notice that I was gone.

And then when the coast was clear

I started walking along the road

and I had been outside for so long.

And eventually,

I got picked up by this man.

He knew that there was

something very wrong.

He was talking to me like you

would like a scared cat,

like do you want to like,

come stay with my family?

I ended up staying

with them for like three days.

And they were like,

we have to know who you are

or else we can get

into a lot of trouble.

So, either you can tell us your name

or we can take you to the

Road Home Shelter in Salt Lake.

I was like if I give them my name,

I will end up back at Jodi's.

I told them to drop me off

at the shelter and they drove away.

They gave me a notebook

with their names and phone numbers

and it and, I'm going to cry.

I lost that book the first

night at the shelter.

And so, I don't have any way

to contact them.

But they saved my life.

I can only imagine

the little boy that escaped,

I heard the 911 call

and him being so afraid

that he was going to get in trouble.

And he asked us to call the police.

So, he's very afraid.

He says, what's happened

to him is his fault.

I know that feeling.

Like, me coming and asking for help

is because I'm so weak

and I'm so ashamed but I'm dying.

There's no way he would

have known that.

But that will to survive,

that driving force, saved his life.

I know this is a dark thought, but

What would have happened to these

kids if the police did not intervene?

The kids would have died.

If those children had not

escaped when they did,

they would have been dead

within two weeks.

Similarities between two women

who gained worldwide attention

for their egregious crimes against

their own children.

Lori Vallow-Daybell has

been sentenced to life in prison

for the murders of her daughter,

sixteen-year-old Tyler Ryan

and seven year old, J.J. Vallow.

Behind almost every crime

we cover where people were hurt,

and or m*rder*d, there's some

element of dehumanization.

And so, but the question

is how do you get there?

We realized that there

were two abused children,

That was our first fear is this

like Kylee and J.J. all over again.

The motive behind the k*lling

was that the children were

evil spirits, they were zombies.

Their mother said this

in her sentencing statement,

that the children

were better off dead.

I've had many communications

with Jesus Christ,

the savior of this world,

I know for a fact that my children

are happy and busy

in the spirit world.

How do you make that judgment

when somebody crosses over

from radical religious beliefs

to complete delusion?

Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell,

they read this book,

Visions of Glory.

It is one of the top selling

LDS books out there.

Ruby Franke and Jodi Hildebrandt

were also reading

the Visions of Glory.

And they were believing

the same things

that Lori Vallow

and Chad Daybell believed

which was that evil spirits

can possess righteous bodies.

We have the dead

walking among us.

I have talked to now several LDS

members who have read this book,

many who have come out

of almost its trance,

you could say and realized

that how extreme it made them.

One of the most

frightening moments in the book

is when the members of the church of

Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

are preparing

for the second coming of Christ

and there's a lot of tribulations,

they explain earthquakes and death

and destruction and sickness,

that all of a sudden the people

that are there,

the most righteous people

that are surviving all of this,

will have to act as God and that they

will have to choose to k*ll people

who do not repent.

But that it is better that these

people are k*lled

to save their souls

than to continue living.

Pam Bodtcher, Jodi Hildebrandt,

Ruby Franke,

they all start having

similar dream and visions

and they validate one another.

They believe that their dreams

and visions mean something,

that God is speaking to them.

She would walk with heavenly father

and heavenly mother

and she had a pet lion

in heaven named Charles.

Kevin Franke tells us

it is interview with police

that Jodi and Ruby even have

a book with their visions.

You found the pen papers.

The pen papers.

Wanting to know where this book is

because it has the answers

to everything.

We do have Ruby's journal

which is from those days.

The stuff she wrote on a pen papers

was not intended to be read

by anybody until God

decree them to be written

as scripture for the whole world.

That's not the journal

that we have so

It's something Jodi

would not want found.

A lot of these visions,

they're about the end times

and that is what

they're prepping for.

Her house was made for prepping.

These homes don't have basements,

but she had like, three.

The amount of effort you would have

to make to go through that lava rock

and create a basement, a sub-basement

and then another basement,

holy ---- like it's crazy.

And they believe that they are going

to be called to the mountains

or safe zones and be protected.

Northern Arizona, southern Utah,

and eastern Idaho.

Jodi wanted a ranch style property

in the desert in Arizona.

I had a trip the other day

and I went to go see a particular

piece of land on the planet.

And they were talking about

taking the kids out there and having

to do more physical labor

and Ruby's journals

specifically says,

we're going to take them out in the

desert in Arizona and drop them.

When you're having visions and you

believe that God is speaking to you,

it doesn't really matter if you know

you're breaking the law or not.

God is the ultimate lawmaker.

Whether child abuse is legal or not,

it doesn't really matter.

There's much deception

going on

that the law, quote unquote,

they don't know that the truth is.

They don't know

who's telling the truth.

As I think about

what would have happened

if Ruby's son

hadn't run away that day,

I just feel fear.

-This is a free call from

-Ruby Franke.

An inmate at Purgatory

Correctional Facility.

This call is subject to recording

and monitoring.

-You there?

-Yeah, hi.

OK.

It's common for people

to get on the jail calls

and can't help themselves

and talk about their case

but I haven't ever personally

listened to calls

that had made me feel

as much emotion and anger

as I did when I heard

Ruby and Jodi's.

They're going to be

in the hospital for three days.

It's so weird.

It's just not necessary.

Like trying to exaggerate this.

They're all in cahoots.

Nobody wants the truth.

So now it's a*usive

to make a kid sleep on the floor.

It's a*usive.

Or it's a*usive to that's ridiculous.

It's ridiculous. You can't even

raise your kids anymore.

A big part of the reason

is because of the self-righteousness

of the two defendants.

The whole time they're just acting

like they're in the right,

everybody else is corrupt or bad.

I am completely misunderstood.

That is the most horrible feeling and

I'm going to get out of this.

Who knows? Maybe in ten days

I'll get out of this.

If the truth prevails.

Jodi and these jailhouse calls,

lacks any kind of remorse.

And she's also quoting

a lot of scripture.

She seems to be comparing herself

to a martyr.

The Lord says

But first they'll lay their hands

on you and persecute you.

Delivering you up to the synagogue

and into prisons.

Being brought in for kings

and rulers for my name's sake

and it shall turn to you

for a testimony.

I just read that, and I just wept.

I mean the spirit said this is you.

In the beginning

when we hear Ruby's phone calls,

she is team Jodi,

she is standing by Jodi's side.

Poor Jodi, they misinterpret her.

They misunderstand her.

And you know what?

Every Joseph Smith

Every wonderful man of God

has had to be misunderstood.

Some of the first calls that we hear,

Ruby, she doesn't see

what went wrong.

Then there's Kevin on the other end

of the line supporting alongside her.

And I'm a good woman.

I don't do naughty things.

I don't do naughty things.

I'm a really good girl.

Ruby, I am committed to our family.

I'm committed to you and our

marriage, no matter what happens.

Thank you. Thank you.

I will be here to support you

in any way that I can.

Both Ruby and Jodi, their lawyers

are coming to us and saying

these are two women

with no criminal history,

they're not gonna be a risk,

they need to get out on bail.

And frankly, I was really worried

that those arguments would prevail.

But then we started getting more

information about the case.

Pictures are coming in.

We didn't do that. We didn't do that.

Those pictures we did not do.

He did that to himself.

We put that on him and then he

rubbed around and cut himself.

Yes, but we didn't do that.

This is a witch hunt.

The devil's been

after them for years.

As soon as they had the images

of the state the kids were in,

the bail issue kind of

just quietly goes away.

They're no longer asking for bail,

now they're asking what kind of

a plea deal can we get here?

Okay, guys. Breaking news

in the 8 Passenger's case.

Kevin Franke, Ruby's husband,

has officially filed for divorce.

While Ruby Franke has been charged

with 6 felony counts of child abuse,

Kevin Franke has yet to be charged

in connection with the crimes.

Has been working to get custody

of the minor children

while Ruby is in prison.

So, I had this phone call

with Kevin's attorney.

He explains

that Kevin was brainwashed

and he's just now coming out of it.

At the same time,

Ruby even says in a phone call,

I haven't been with Jodi, I'm not

listening to her constantly anymore,

and I see things differently.

It's interesting how that happens.

I could not come out of this without,

without his grace,

without his mercy,

without his help.

This has been the strangest

and the most miraculous intervention.

It put everybody where

they needed to be.

It separated me from Jodi,

so I'm not hearing her.

And I think just being gone

and not hearing her

has cleared a lot of

things up for me.

And it's embarrassing,

too, just like, repeated.

Oh my gosh, how gullible was I?

Oh my gosh, how much power

I gave this person.

And I didn't see it.

It was like the little strings that

started pulling apart this fabric.

I'm like, oh my gosh.

What have I done? Like, what?

Being swindled or being indoctrinated

isn't an excuse

for committing crimes.

At this point,

they've been in jail for months

and Ruby is now ready

to take a plea deal.

We begin with breaking news tonight

involving Ruby Franke,

the YouTuber accused of child abuse.

She's expected in court on Monday.

We did agree to not advocate to the

Utah Board of Pardons and Parol

that she stay in longer than

whatever they're considering doing.

Ruby pretty quickly

accepted the offer,

and she agreed to testify against

Jodi as part of her plea deal.

We get this long letter

from her legal representation

saying that Ruby Franke

was prepared to testify

against Jodi Hildebrandt.

The letter also goes into detail

about Franke's relationship with Jodi

saying over an extended period,

Hildenbrandt systematically isolated

Ruby Franke from her family.

The letter states Franke

is committed to taking responsibility

for the part she played in the events

leading up to her incarceration.

She's not buying

what Jodi is selling anymore.

My attorney he's like,

Jody denies everything.

She denies having anything

to do with this.

And I was shocked. I was like, what?

And that's when I realized

she knew all along.

And she's not even hiding it.

And then I was like, crap,

what am I saying?

That's when things

kind of started turning.

I was like, she's not been honest.

I didn't know she would lie.

What else has she been lying about?

Where else have I been deceived?

There are three keys,

the first is learning

how to become impeccably honest.

Number two is rigorous

personal responsibility

and number three

is the willingness to be humble.

It goes from this partnership,

they were side-by-side, hand-in-hand,

shoulder to shoulder working together

to Ruby has turned on Jodi.

Today is judgment day for Ruby Franke

and her partner in business

and crime, Jodi Hildebrandt,

here at the Washington County

Courthouse in St. George Utah.

All rise.

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

Welcome to District Court.

We're here for sentencing

in the matter of the state of Utah

versus Ruby Franke.

It's typical when someone comes

in for their sentencing

for the person to accept

responsibility, ask for some mercy,

but in this case,

as long as the judge accepted

the plea deal from Ruby and Jodi,

the judge didn't

have very much discretion.

He was going to sentence them

to the maximum that was possible

with what they pled to

and that's what they agreed to do.

But frankly, there's still

some incentive for them to come in

and accept responsibility

because now

they're trying to convince

the Utah Board of Pardons

and Parole

that they're not a risk

to society anymore,

so that they can

get out of prison quicker.

Ruby's sentencing

was scheduled first.

And nobody had ever had a sentencing

statement like what she gave.

Thank you to the Ivan City Police.

You were the angels

who came and saved my children.

Thank you to the medical staff.

Thank you to DCFS,

the Children's Justice Center.

Ruby Franke sounded like she

was at the Academy Awards.

She says, I want to

thank the arresting officers.

I want to thank everybody

that questioned me.

She went on and on and on.

To my babies, my six little chicks,

you are part of me.

I was so disoriented.

You are, you're so precious to me.

I'm sorry.

I'm looking over at the Frankes.

Shari has her gaze fixed

on Judge Walton.

She just never once looked

at her mother.

And it was so telling.

And Chad, his gaze is kind of

all over the place.

But really no big reaction

to what his mother is saying.

And then Ruby apologizes to Kevin.

Kevin,

my husband of more than twenty-three

years, you are the love of my life.

I'm so sorry

to leave to you to finish

what we both started together.

The ending of our marriage

is a tragedy.

And you are wrapped around my heart

in a knot I'll never be able to undo.

You can hear the sniffles

in the courtroom.

Their marriage is over.

His kids are on either side

and he threw his head into his hands

and Kevin breaks down in tears.

Ruby was handed down her sentence.

And there was just like four beats

of silence where no one moved.

And then Jodi's whisked in.

And there's a different energy

in the room.

After Ruby's big, long, teary,

I can't believe I did this,

Jodi's attorney was like, your honor,

can we have a few minutes?

I suspect he then

talked to his client

and said you've got to say something.

Jodi tries to bring herself

to say that she's sorry.

But she couldn't.

I sincerely love these children.

I desire for them to heal physically

and emotionally.

One of the reasons

I did not go to trial

was that I did not want them to

emotionally relive

the experience which

have been detrimental to them.

My hope and prayer

is that they will heal

and move forward

to have beautiful lives.

Most of the people in the courtroom

were pretty angry

at what she was saying.

I think the judge was.

Ms. Hildebrandt,

this circumstance is tragic.

It's largely,

of course, of your making.

What happened to these children

and your philosophy

in dealing with them

frankly seems detached

from reality

or any objective standard of decency.

The court finds

that it is appropriate

that you serve a prison sentence.

The court imposes

four one to fifteen-year sentences

to be again served

consecutively for each

of the four counts of

aggravated child abuse.

It was really eye-opening

to see the difference between the two

Especially the way

that Jodi just did not seem to care

about anything that was going on

I mean

Jodi just stood there emotionless

and just

Can I didn't react at all

about anything that was going on

and it just

really. let us to believe like

there is no way that she feels

like she did anything wrong.

Everybody wrong,

everybody else is the problem.

I'm the one that was trying

to do right by those kids

and I think a lot of people

were offended

that she said she loved those kids.

Because that's not how

you show that you love people.

That's not how you care for children.

Ruby essentially says

that are sensing hairy look

I was, I got caughtup in this

I didn't know what I was doing

this was horrible, this was Evil.

You know I have nothing to do

right she portrays herself as this

unwitting victim of Jodi's'

My problem with that is she takes

no responsibility whatsoever

for the fact that she's already

engaging prior to meeting Jodi.

She's already egaging

in these somewhat restrictive

potentially a*usive

parenting practices.

There was probably like an empathy.

You know after Jodi's crime

Bonnie gets I don't know

if I can mention that name.

Yeah, Bonnie.

Bonnie gets on You Tube

like a day later.

Bonnie essentially says

I'm not affiliated with my sister

I have nothing to do with my sister.

Please leave me out of this

I get people wanting

to put blame somewhere.

I do. They want to blame someone.

There's only one person

that could have helped and he didn't.

What he was doing all that time

when human Ruby were separated

is beyond.

Ruby Franke and her business partner,

Jodi Hildebrandt

have been sentenced

to four consecutive prison terms

which could range from anywhere

from one to fifteen years each

following their guilty plea to four

counts of second-degree

felony aggravated child abuse.

I think that a four-year

minimum for Ruby's actions

are entirely appropriate.

I hope that Jodi serves

more time than that

and I hope that she

isn't out of prison

until everybody

is completely confident

that she's no longer a risk.

A lot of people are questioning,

including myself

on behalf of the public,

what if they get let out in 4 years,

do you think that's likely?

Will they serve the same

amount of time?

People need to realize

these women could potentially

be in prison only four years.

They could be in prison

up to thirty.

But that has yet to be decided.

So, coming out of this case,

we have state leaders

and we also have the Frankes,

notably Shari and Kevin, advocating

for several pieces of legislation.

Shari has thrown her support

behind this Child Influencer

Protections bill,

which will become law.

Shari Franke,

a former family vlog star,

is advocating for minors

on social media.

She told lawmakers about the harm she

experienced from family vlogging.

I don't come today as the

daughter of a felon

nor as a victim of an abnormally

a*usive mother.

I come today as a victim

of family vlogging.

Shari Franke, the oldest of the kids,

should be seen as one

of the heroes of this

that really did what she could

to try to stop this crazy train

that happened that led

to this horrible abuse.

Family vlogging ruined my innocence

long before Ruby committed a crime.

Most child influencers would probably

tell you they have full control

over what is posted but the reality

is that their parents bribe

and shame them into posting

their most vulnerable moments.

Vlogging my family, putting

my children into public social media

was wrong and I regret it every day.

As far as Kevin Franke,

he really advocated for regulating

the life coaching profession.

Ms. Jodi Hildebrandt

continued to be licensed

by the state

even after all that was apparently

known about her by DOPL,

The Department of Professional

Licensing, since at least 2010.

The goal is for DOPL to have

more resources

to go after these bad actors.

Protect our children

so that what happened to my family

cannot happen to anyone else.

I can't tell you what I have done

to get to where I am today.

I got remarried and have got

a gorgeous little baby.

-You did it.

-Yeah.

Most of my life's like uber normal.

Like, I'm waking up, going to work,

excited about seeing my kids.

As a thirty-one year-old

living in Europe,

having a wonderful career

in tattooing,

having had truly so many incredible

experiences in my life,

this version of me is very new.

And it took a lot of different

versions of me to get here.

It took me some time to realize

that if someone's a member of the

church it doesn't make them honest,

or good person.

It doesn't make them have my

best interest at heart.

What it does is it positions them

to be able to take advantage of me

in ways that they would

without the church there.

I asked myself the question, is this

really the right thing for me?

I was just like, I can never

go back to the church. I'm done.

This concept of healing

is very hard to define.

I will probably have nightmares

to some degree

for the rest of my life.

We want a happy ending

for the Franke children.

My hope for them

is that the amount of validation

that is confirming their reality

can be a catalyst for their healing.

Just when we think new details

in this case have slowed down

and it's going to go quiet,

we learn

about this racketeering lawsuit.

In our suit, we allege that this

is a racketeering enterprise

and Jodi Hildebrandt, Ruby Franke,

Connexions, Pam Bodtcher,

you know, my ex-wife,

haven't been held responsible

for the destruction of families.

The lawsuit alleges that these women,

through this organization,

falsely advertises help and healing,

but instead, it promotes child abuse,

psychological warfare.

Pam isn't listed

as a defendant but

you mention her in your lawsuit, why?

Pam Bodtcher taught many of those

Connexions master classes.

She directed the

Connexions foundation.

And she was just extremely involved

in this organization.

And potentially still is.

And in Ruby Franke's journal entries,

Bodtcher went

to Hildebrandt's residence while

the children were being abused.

The day Ruby and Jodi

had been arrested,

the two older daughters of Ruby's

were actually found at Pam's home.

I think it frustrates a lot of

people. Like, especially online,

like why wasn't she held accountable

for some of this?

Maybe there's something there,

maybe there's not,

but it's hard for me to believe

that she did not play a role in this.

Yeah, no, I know Pam.

I know Pam Bodtcher.

What's your read on Pam Bodtcher?

In my experience,

Pam Bodtcher saw everything.

She was team Jodi all of the way.

Saw all of the abuse that

was happening, did nothing.

All I can say about Pam

is that we never had enough evidence

to charge her with a crime.

CONNEXIONS

I don't know, I don't have proof

that Connexions classroom

is still operating,

nor do I know the scope

of Jodi's influence or power

from behind bars at this point.

It's hard to fathom,

but unfortunately,

we know that even when leaders

are punished or put behind bars,

they can still have followers.

They can still have

a lot of influence

and their teachings

can still be implemented.

And it's a scary thought to ponder.

The experience of narcissistic

abuse of-of t*rture,

of coercive control is not new.

If we decide to throw this out as

a fluke, I would never be duped.

You're missing out on an opportunity

to make sure that this doesn't

happen again.

This is a call from

and paid for by

Jodi Hildebrandt.

An inmate at Purgatory

Correctional Facility.

A guy from a ward that I was saying,

he came over and he gave me

a blessing and he told me,

what you've been doing

is going to change.

You're going to be teaching

differently in the next little while.

And I'm like, what in the world?

It feels like I was being set up

to end up here.

I know that sounds bizarro.

But when I get out of here,

I have a story to tell.

And I don't know if I'm going to be

like some kind of example.

I mean, I shouldn't be here.

I haven't done anything wrong.