01x03 - Fighting While Driving

[bunniefuu]

Tell me about this incident that was nasty

involving your daughter.

I'm driving.

We start arguing because of his drug use.

He reaches over, grabs the steering wheel,

and pushes us onto oncoming traffic.

While your daughter is in the car.

-Yes.

-No!

Listen to me, I don't want you to speak

to me again unless I'm looking at you.

[narrator] This is Judy Justice.

[theme music plays]

Lauren Liebel is suing

her former boyfriend Marco Lara

for the cost of a car.

[Kevin] Court come to order.

All rise.

Be seated please.

Hello, Judge. You have case number 1037,

Liebel vs. Lara.

Thanks, Kevin.

Miss Liebel, this was your boyfriend

for a period of time

-and you have a child together.

-Correct.

When did you and the defendant

start to live together?

-What month?

-July?

Actually it wasn't 2017,

it was 2018.

Early 2018 when

I moved to Visalia from Fresno.

It was after my birthday.

-She got back in contact with me.

-[Judy] Just a second.

-Just a second. I don't need a tome.

-[Marco] I'm not--

-I need a date.

-[Marco] Okay.

-And I need it slowly because I--

-[Marco] It was early July

I need it slowly 'cause I'm old.

It was May-- It was 2017,

right after May,

but when we actually

started living together

was closer to 2018.

So it had to have been maybe December,

so when I moved to Visalia

for her from Fresno.

You have a son or a daughter?

-A daughter.

-How old is she?

She's gonna be three in August.

-And Mr. Lara's the father of that child.

-Correct.

-And that's your only child?

-Yes.

This has to do with an old car.

You and Mr. Lara were living together,

and then there came a time when there

started to be some friction.

When did that start?

It started August 2020.

-It started sooner than that, Your Honor.

-Listen to me,

I don't want you to speak to me again

unless I'm looking at you.

Yes, ma'am.

About what?

He had been partying heavily.

There had been some drug use.

And I had been trying to help him get

visitation of his eldest daughter.

Was he-- just a second--

was he working?

-Yes.

-What kind of work was he doing?

Temp agency. Uh, he was working

for Mid Valley Disposal,

-like, dumpster

-Temp work.

-Yeah.

-Is that right, sir?

-No.

-In August of 2020?

-It was through a temp agency--

-Were you-- Shh!

In August of 2020,

who were you working for?

August 2020, I was working for

American Carrier Equipment

as a welder fabricator,

as I'm currently doing right now,

over a year.

I've been welding for five years.

Okay. And during that time,

there was some difficulty

-but you purchased a new car.

-Yes.

When did you purchase a new car?

January 2020.

And you kept your old car,

which was what kind of a car?

Chevy Impala 2007.

-And that car is titled in your name.

-Correct.

You got a new car because

I assume you wanted a more reliable car.

The Impala was reliable.

Uh, I started going to school

so I needed my own car to

take my daughter to her appointments,

for me to go to school,

-he needed it--

-And as a family,

-And as a family,

because you were living as a family,

-right?

-Correct, yeah.

So I didn't always have the car

when I needed it.

Just a second. So

you needed a second car.

And the family car had been the Impala.

So far, correct?

Mm-hmm.

-"Uh-huh" is not an answer.

-[Marco] Yes, ma'am.

That would be "yes."

And you can leave out the "ma'am."

That could be-- yes is fine.

When you got the new car,

and he was driving primarily

the 2007 Chevy Impala,

was there any financial arrangement

that the two of you made

while you were still living

and sleeping together?

-Hm. Mm-mm.

-No.

-[Judy] He just drove it?

-He drove it, yeah.

[Judy] Okay. He just drove it.

And then there came a time that

you had a bad argument, kerfuffle,

-while you were driving someplace.

-Very correct.

Tell me when that happened.

That happened August 24th, 2020,

two days before my daughter's birthday.

-Tell me about it.

-[Lauren] So

we had already broken up

for a couple weeks. I was--

When you say you had broken up

for a couple of weeks,

he was still living in the house?

-Yes, we were still living together.

-[Judy] So that means

So that means somebody

was sleeping on a sofa.

Yes. Essentially.

What do you mean "essentially"?

What does that mean?

So I would leave and spend the weekends

in Visalia.

And he would work in the week,

I was working from home at the time

due to COVID.

So he would watch Daenerys, my daughter,

while I was

you know, in the office,

back office area,

being a receptionist.

Would it be a fair statement that

the two of you had decided to break up

prior to this incident that occurred

in August of 2020?

-Honestly, Your Honor, no.

-[Judy stammers]

-So you don't know.

-It's not a fair statement to say that.

-No.

-[Judy] What?

-It's not a fair statement to say that.

-[Judy] Okay.

So you had been together.

It was a single decision on her behalf.

Okay. Well

She decided to break up with you.

-And the apartment I paid rent for.

-[Judy] Prior

-[Marco] On my lease.

-I don't care.

All I hear,

asking her all these questions.

-[Judy] Mr. Lara--

-[chuckles] Okay. Sorry, Your Honor.

What I'm asking you is,

would it be a fair statement

that you were broken up

as a family?

You maybe had been residing

in the same place,

two weeks prior to this incident

that was nasty

involving your daughter.

-Yes.

-[Judy chuckles] Perfect.

Now, tell me about this incident

that happened right before

your daughter's birthday.

Okay, so it was--

we were going to Picture People,

to take my daughter, uh, two year old,

you know, pictures--

I wanted to hand it out to the family.

And so we are in the picture studio

and my daughter has my phone,

she's using YouTube.

And he decides to grab the phone

from my daughter,

go through my messages and see that

I'm messaging other guys.

And so we're arguing because of that.

And so now we're

That's over with.

We're in the car, we have the pictures.

We're driving, we're almost home.

And you know how arguments

don't necessarily stay with

one thing, it gets into

the more deeper issues.

So it got into

And this is all while

your daughter is the car.

Yes. She's asleep.

She's in the car, he's in the car.

I'm driving.

Because I'm the only licensed driver.

He's in the passenger seat.

We start arguing because of his drug use

the weekend before

when he was staying at his friend's house.

And I was just so upset

because I had filled out

-You were upset.

-Yes.

Tell me what happened after you got upset.

You're driving

I let him know, like, I am gonna tell his

other-- mother of his other child

that he's using drugs

and basically--

Ooh. Now that's, you know,

that's a "gut thing."

Yeah. Yeah.

I'm not driving both cars so I shouldn't

have to pay interest

for both of her cars.

-No, you shouldn't-- Shh!

-I shouldn't have to give her gas money

when she's going to the store.

I shouldn't have to be

raising a kid alone.

But you-- if you answer him,

I'm dismissing your case,

do you understand?

[theme music]

[narrator] Lauren Liebel claims her

daughter's father, Marco Lara

refuses to return a car that she owns.

Okay. Tell me what happened

after you got upset.

You're driving

I let him know, like, I am gonna tell his

other-- mother of his other child

that he's using drugs and basically--

Ooh. Now that's, you know,

that's a "gut thing."

-Yeah. Yeah.

-[Judy] That's a gut thing.

I'm not proud of it, but I did it.

And so I told him that.

He is-- starts getting really emotionally

upset and saying that

I'm trying to take his kids from him,

which is not the case, obviously.

He's in the car because Daenerys.

Okay, so let me, uh

[exhales]

Let me understand this.

You were arguing with Mr. Lara

because a couple weeks before,

in your judgment, he had resumed

use of unauthorized drugs.

-Yes.

-And you had been involved

with him in trying to get visitation

with another child or children?

-Child, Your Honor.

-Child.

-How old is that child?

-She's four. She's about to be five.

And so what you threatened to do was

you threatened to advise

the mother of that child

who was involved in

a visitation dispute with him

-that he was back on drugs.

-Mm-hmm.

Okay. Well, that would be a smart thing

and protective of the four-year-old.

-Yeah.

-[Judy] I mean, one would think that

a court who was handling that

would be wise enough

to order drug tests.

But you weren't saying it for that reason.

You were angry.

-Yeah, I was the one who was

-[Judy] You were angry.

-trying so hard to get

-Mm-hmm.

-[Judy] To get it all together.

-Yeah.

And he was disappointing.

I got the picture.

All right. So, there was an argument.

The police were called.

Yes. So, I'm in the car.

I say that.

He gets emotionally upset,

reaches over, grabs the steering wheel

and pushes us into oncoming traffic.

[chuckles]

We don't-- I get control,

nobody was injured.

I'm still upset at this point.

because my daughter is right behind me.

I got it. Who called the police?

Uh, somebody across the street.

Somebody who was observing this incident.

I had to yell out because he,

at that point,

had grabbed my cell phone

and my keys

and wouldn't let me out of the car

and I was yelling for help.

-And so somebody, a bystander--

-[Lauren] Yes.

-Called the police.

-And that's evident in my police report.

The police arrived.

May I see the police report please, Kevin?

While we're doing this, Sarah,

just have at your fingertips

a 2007 Chevy

I need the model and approximate mileage.

Any particular model Chevy Impala?

Yeah. I have all the evidence right here.

Okay. Kevin, would you hand that?

-The kind of--

-[Marco] And I have pictures

No, I just wanna know the make

and the model is what I'm asking you.

-[Kevin] Make and model?

-[Lauren] Yeah, Chevy Impala.

-[Judy] Shh! Just hand it--

-Make and model Chevy Impala.

-Just hand it-- Make, model.

-[Marco] Chevy Impala 2008 LT.

Just give me the document.

One, two, three.

-I was trying to give it to him.

-[Judy] One, two, three.

Thank you.

Okay. So according to the police report,

which is clear,

the person who called the police

heard screaming coming from a car.

"Female screaming from a car."

She called the police.

Neither party was to press charges

but the police officer suggested

that one of them voluntarily

leave the home.

"Police officer: I suggested that perhaps

someone leave for the evening

so that each party could cool off

and have time to think things over."

You agreed to leave for the night

to avoid further disturbance.

-Mm-hmm.

-You said

that he had a vehicle,

a Chevy Impala, he could leave in.

I'm trying to think of who's one,

and who's two.

Oh. IP One. Okay.

You agreed to leave for the night?

He agreed to leave for the night.

I told the police officers

that that's my car.

-No, that's not what--

-And I didn't want him to take it.

It said, P2 said, "He had--

"He had a Chevy Impala he could leave in."

You said the car was in her name

and she paid for the vehicle

but could not provide proof

of these things.

"I advised her that the matter

involving any vehicles

would have to be

decided in civil court

since it was a civil issue."

You gathered all of your property,

clothing, personal items, etcetera,

-and left the location.

-Mm-hmm. Yes.

So the police escorted you home

and you took the car.

-Mm-hmm. No argument

-[Judy] That's a yes.

-What?

-Yes.

-[Judy] That's a yes.

-And I gave her the apartment, too.

Who lives in that apartment?

-[Judy] Just a second-- Hey!

-You moved out.

-Hey, hey, hey!

-[Lauren chuckles] Sorry.

I don't live there so I'm like,

what is he talking about?

I gave her the apartment and then

she up and took my daughter to Visalia

without telling me

two days later.

Don't you understand they're

gonna cut off your mic?

I'm not looking at you

and I didn't ask you a question.

Yes, ma'am. Yes, Your Honor.

Okay. So, at the time of this incident,

-you said you would leave.

-Mm-hmm.

You said that you had a car

that you could use.

-She said it was in her name.

-Mm-hmm.

The police said,

"Take that up in civil court."

-Mm-hmm.

-You went home without her present,

went in, gathered up your things,

and left in the Chevy Impala.

You had been driving the new car,

-I assume, to go to the picture taking

-[Lauren] Correct.

for your daughter's second birthday.

-Yeah.

-[Judy] Great. Okay.

Now, she wants her car back,

or the value thereof.

Ball is in your court.

Okay. So

she is trying to go after me

for two thousand dollars,

-which is what I was going to

-[Judy] No, no, no.

-bring. I have evidence of the car.

-No, I-- what you have to tell me, sir,

-is she bought this car. The--

-We bought it together, yes.

Well, actually, she got the loan

from her bank.

And then I was helping paying off the loan

Okay. But is the loan paid off?

-Yes, completely.

-[Judy] Yes.

I paid the loan off with

my tax return money.

The last bit of the loan

she paid off, yes.

Whatever. The car is in her name.

So I want you to tell me you went home,

you took the car,

-the car is in her name.

-With permission.

Have you had previous discussions with her

about the car?

-Yes. And I have messages on my phone.

-[Judy] When? When?

And emails saying that as long as

I continue paying my daughter's tuition,

which is $680 a month,

that I pay by myself,

that I was going to be able to use the car

as transportation to go back and forth--

-Yes, that I could go back and forth

-Great, I'd like-- Shh!

-to my side of Fresno.

-[Judy] Just a second.

-Just a second. I'd like to see it.

-[Marco] Okay.

Mm-hmm.

And that was her threatening me before

taking me to claims court.

Just a second.

-There are other previous--

-[Judy] Shh!

This is June 9th of what year?

This year?

This year?

Well, then you answer her.

She says to you,

"I want to get the car back to be fixed

so I can sell it.

You've been using it for the last year.

But I need it back so that I can sell it."

And she says,

"Hopefully this issue could be resolved

without all that mess,

especially considering you drove my car

back and forth to work.

It's the least you can do

in appreciation for driving a car free

you didn't make payments on."

And you respond to her,

"I'II get it fixed enough to sell

but only if you keep giving me

Stink on Fridays--"

-What is that?

-Stink is my nickname for our daughter.

Because she refused to give me

my daughter on weekends.

Just a second. Well.

-[Marco] But that's something--

-Just a second.

Is that what you call her?

I don't call her that. I call her Peanut.

Peanut's also my nickname

that I started for her as well.

-[Judy] Well, I'm just gonna--

-It shouldn't matter what I call my kid.

First, let's try to use the word "child"

or "my daughter"

instead of referring to "kid."

Either the kid you're gonna visit,

or "Stinky,"

but I'm telling you, as she gets older,

she's three now,

she's not gonna like that nickname.

If he wants to act like a fool,

let him act like a fool!

I'm not acting like a fool,

but you're allowing her to talk--

I'm telling you,

you're acting like a fool!

Don't tell me. I'm the person

who's supposed to judge this case

and I'm telling you

you're acting like a fool!

[theme music]

[narrator] Lauren Liebel has accused

former boyfriend Marco Lara

of wrongfully keeping her car.

Okay. She says to you,

"I want to get the car back to be fixed

so I can sell it." And you respond to her,

"I'll get it fixed enough to sell but only

if you keep giving me Stink on Fridays."

-What is that?

-Stink is my nickname for our daughter.

Because she refused to give me

my daughter on weekends.

Just a second. Okay.

So it's clear based upon these

that you agreed with her

to give her the car

-as long as--

-Time, yeah.

As long as you have

visitation on Fridays.

So you were sort of bartering it.

That doesn't make any difference to me.

What is clear is that you understood

that the car still belonged to her

and that she was allowing you to drive it.

That's from your email.

Would you like me

to show you other emails?

[Judy] What?

Would you like me to show you

other emails of her?

So I don't know if, um

the whole thing,

the whole message,

was screenshotted,

but I have pretty much the same thing,

only I'm saying you've been claiming the

money that you've been sending me

-for your daughter is for the Impala.

-I read that.

-I read that. I read that.

-[Lauren] Okay.

No, the car is yours.

But you also see on the Cash Apps

and she wants to say that

I haven't been helping her.

There are receipts for insurance

for the Impala.

-I have multiple receipts right here.

-[Judy] Well, you have-- Just a second.

Thousands of dollars

that I've spent on that car,

-Listen to me.

-not asking her for help.

Listen to me.

You drove it. You drove it.

-You drove it.

-He ran it into the ground.

-[Judy] Just-- Shh!

-I'm the only one who fixed it.

Don't. You drove it.

If you drove it and had to fix it

for the year that you've had it,

that's on you, you could've returned it

if you didn't want to--

this message makes clear that there was

an agreement between the two of you

that it wasn't your car,

that it was her car,

she was letting you drive it.

You were paying for insurance--

well, who's supposed to pay insurance?

Her? You were driving it.

You were driving it.

I'm not driving both cars.

So I shouldn't have to pay insurance

for both of her cars.

[Judy]

No, you shouldn't-- Shh!

I shouldn't have to give her gas money

when she's going to the store.

-[Judy] Just a second.

-Like I have all of these Cash Apps--

I shouldn't have to be

raising a kid alone.

If you answer him,

I'm dismissing your case!

Do you understand?

If he wants to act like a fool,

let him act like a fool!

I'm not acting like a fool,

but you're allowing her to talk.

I'm telling you,

you're acting like a fool!

-I realize that--

-Don't tell me. I'm sitting here.

I'm the person

who's supposed to judge this case

and I'm telling you

you're acting like a fool!

This email from you suggests

that you were using the car,

understanding it was her car.

You never asked her

for a title to the car,

you were having conversations with her.

That didn't happen.

You paid for the insurance on the car

that you were driving.

You paid to have it fixed.

According to you, thousands of--

but you were driving it!

And you said to her,

"I understand as long as you let me have

Stink, I'll give you the car back.

On Fridays."

Yeah, my agreement was her

-not withholding my child from me.

-That's what-- Just a second.

That's what-- That's what this says.

And you can--

If she is withholding visitation--

with-- child from you,

I would suggest

you go to family court.

We are doing that.

That's what you're focusing on,

-is the child part, like--

-Just a second. Just a second.

Well, that's great!

-We're here for the car. [chuckles]

-Just a second.

That's great.

I know we're here for the car.

That you realized,

back in June, was not your car.

-I don't have ever--

-If you want me to show you other emails

of her threatening me and her--

to me telling her,

"I'll give you 600

if you give me the title

so I can put the 2,000 in,

Just a second. Just a second.

So what you offered her

before you put in the money

was $600 for the car.

-And up.

-Just-- that's a yes or a no?

-Yes.

-Did he offer you $600 for the car?

He said, "I'll give you $500

if you sign it over to my mom.

Do you have a license?

-[Marco] No.

-"No." [laughs] Sarah

Just for my own information,

what is the value of a 2007 Impala

in lousy condition?

[chuckles] $200.

For a private party exchange, it would be

between $2,000 and $3,000.

Okay. I'm going to create an order

that gives you back the car.

You could take it to a sheriff

and have them execute on the order.

Otherwise, if within five days

he doesn't return the car,

then you can call the police

and report it stolen.

Because he is driving around

without a license in a car.

I don't know, if he gets in an accident,

your insurance company

is going to disclaim

because he has no license.

-Correct.

-And you're going to be responsible.

So I would suggest that you

get this car back ASAP.

-I never withheld it from her.

-ASAP!

-I was gonna tow it to her.

-Otherwise, report it stolen!

Dude, you guys think

I'm holding it from her?

-[Judy] Otherwise, report--

-I've given her the car.

She can take the car.

-Great!

-[Marco] We've tried giving her the car.

-Great!

-But, like, she won't take it.

When did you get a tow truck

to tow it to me?

Because you're afraid.

I'm not--

[Judy] No, no, no,

you're talking to each other.

-No. I have given her the car

-Kevin. Kevin. Right in between.

Right in between

and tell him to shut up.

-Well, that's fine, I don't--

-Listen, please.

-[Judy] Great!

-I'm just letting you know, ma'am.

Listen. Just listen.

I've spent thousands of dollars fixing

that car since I've had it.

Good, you were driving it.

-That's not--

-You were driving it.

Dude, she can have the car.

I don't care. I'll lose it.

Great! Perfect. Thank you very much.

This case is over.

-Thank you.

-Okay, but do I get my $2,000 for repairs

-No.

-that he ran the car into?

-Nope. You get the car.

-[Kevin] Court adjourned.

I think it was fair. I get my car back.

And that's really what I wanted.

I haven't gotten it back yet.

He's a liar.

No, he ran it into the ground.

He drove it knowing that

the brakes needed to be changed.

Motor mount needed to be fixed.

Um, I hope he just makes good decisions

regarding our daughter

and that he stays out of my life.

And Sarah, I think that

the social takeaway from that case,

the legal part was easy--

the legal part was title's in her name,

it was clear that

he was just using the car,

he was paying the insurance on the car

but there was never a gift of this car

that either existed

or that anybody can prove.

But the social part of this case

is really to me more important.

And something that I learned

and I'm gonna take away from it.

Never fight with your partner

in a moving vehicle.

That's a very, very, bad place

to pick a fight.

Mm-hmm.

Fight some place

where you both are landlocked.

Anyway, I feel sorry for that

little two-year-old.

Nobody sleeps through

that kind of experience.

And that kind of experience can,

you know, can affect you.

Gotta love your child

more than you hate each other.

That's it. That's the answer.

[narrator] Have you been cheated?

Go to JudyJustice.tv.

[closing theme plays]