tense orchestral music
[Orna VO] In couples
therapy, generally,
I treat the couple as a unit
with different components.
Some of the components need
more attention than others at
different points in time.
I feel like I'm functioning
almost like an orchestra
conductor; I'm trying
to, like, you know,
tell the violas "Quiet down now,
let's listen to the
bassoon more."
Your job is not
to be intuitive...
[Will] Mm-hm.
It's to listen.
[Molly] Can I say something now?
No, just wait.
[Orna VO] I wanna feel
what it's like to be a witness to
their particular performance...
because it's really a symphony.
Where are you,
Yaya, listening to this?
Does any of this
make sense to you?
Yeah, it makes me upset but...
You don't show it.
[voice cracking] There are
just so many deeper issue that I
wanna talk about that I can't!
Do you wanna say anything?
[sighs]
[Orna VO] People often
are speaking pretty directly.
You just have to figure out a
way to quiet down your own...
noise and listen.
[boat horn]
Now that the
treatment is ending,
I notice myself
feeling a mixture of,
like, sad and worried
about letting them all go.
I mean, it's-- first of all,
there's like this endless,
like, revisiting of, like,
"Oh, but I didn't work on this,
I didn't get to do that--"
Yeah.
[Orna] And "I forgot to
address this issue" and--
Yeah, of course.
There's a lot of worries.
Yeah.
Most of them have
been, like, really, um...
they've come a long
way, but with Ping and Will,
it's a...
complicated...
place to be in.
I've seen her change a
lot; she's become a lot more
self-reflective
and less reactive,
but despite his sweet--
[Virginia VO] Yeah,
sweet demeanor and, yeah.
[Orna VO] Sweet demeanor,
he's really -- as I said to him a few
sessions ago, he
feels really encased.
-[Virginia VO] He's stuck.
-[Orna VO] Yeah.
And it may not be appropriate
for either one of them...
[Orna] To stay.
To stay with each
other because--
Yes, and they might be hurting
each other by keeping trying.
-[Virginia] Yeah.
-Um...
But is your feeling that...
they have it in
them to separate?
Could they separate?
-[Orna] Yeah.
-[Virginia] I see.
But then, the
question is what...
what role do I take?
-Good question.
-[Orna] Yeah.
How do you help people
make that terrifying decision?
[Orna] Yeah.
smooth bluesy music
I've been thinking
about it, and in our work,
a lot of our conflict, it's
complicated by my own anger
issues, right?
And it's by my own reactions,
so I've been dialing that back as
best I can -- I am
not a 100% yet...
Mm-hm.
But what I'm noticing is that
as I'm keeping myself in check,
I'm kind of observing
us and him from afar.
Great.
And I don't feel like in the
heat of the moment as much.
[Orna] Mm-hm.
And I'm also...
you know, coming to-- I don't
know if "a conclusion" is the
right word, but I'm beginning
to realize that he's just
closed-off, so what
is there to work with?
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
-You know?
-What is there to work with?
-[Orna] Yeah.
So...
that's where I am.
-Fair enough.
-[Ping] Yeah.
And where are you, Will?
I'm wondering if, um...
you know, we launch
into conflict and...
[clears throat] have all our
defenses up and use our full
arsenal just 'cause...
[sighs]
maybe, um...
maybe deep down
inside, we know it is over.
[Orna] Mm-hm.
'Cause I think we
both really, really,
really, [chuckling] really
f*cking wanted this to work.
[Orna] Mm-hm.
I'm sure that's hard to say.
[sighs]
But that makes sense to me
that maybe your fighting is kind of
a...
kind of last gasps of trying
to hold onto the marriage.
And maybe the two of you
could get to some other place,
I feel bad that I wasn't able
to kind of shepherd you there,
but I think there's something
else that's going on that I've
been trying to
talk to you about,
which is that there's
some way that you are...
not fully present, because it
could be that it's not couples
work anymore, maybe
it's individual work.
Mm.
And maybe this is where
you meet your history...
because we've talked about
how you've come with this pattern
already that was
established very early on...
but that you're kind of
hopeless about connection.
Whatever happens
between the two of you,
that's something really
important for you to understand
about yourself, and
try to get in touch with.
Mm.
What do you think, Ping?
I don't know, in the
back of my mind,
I'm always
thinking, "Okay, well,
you keep saying you're
done. Are you done?
Are you absolutely done?"
And I mean it; I am,
because I don't want this,
and I don't see...
a way out of it without
his participation.
[Orna] Mm-hm.
[Ping] I don't wanna
have this fight anymore.
Like, seriously, I
would rather be alone.
Well, I just want to say a
word about this being done.
[Ping] Yeah.
Which is there are all
sorts of "being done."
You can decide, "You know what?
This is really not what I want.
There's no way to
make it different or better,
and we should let go."
Yeah.
And then there's "being
done," which is just the same as
starting a fight or attacking;
it's sort of an attempt to
influence by being done.
And that I wanna
dissuade you from.
-[Ping] Mm-hm.
-[Orna] Because that's just...
Right.
It just messes up
the whole system.
I mean, you're not--
No, I see that;
yeah, I see that.
-[Orna] Yeah.
-[Ping] But I mean it.
-I'm done.
-Mm-hm.
I think I'm not the partner
that he expected me to be or
that he wanted me to be, that
how I was back then in the early
years is no longer the case now.
Mm-hm.
I don't know, I--
I-- if I'm honest,
I don't know that I can be
that person for him anymore.
[Orna] Mm-hm.
I don't know that I
can be in that lifestyle,
and if I was at one point, it
was because I wanted to make it
work, right? I really wanted...
the impossible, right?
And-- and...
I was wrong!
I was wrong; I was
wrong about him,
I was wrong about us, and...
[inhales deeply]
that sucks. [sighs]
I think at the end of the day,
I really-- I want a partner that
sees me, too, and I don't...
I don't think it's him.
I'm sorry.
moody ambient music
[Ping VO] Today, I stand
in front of you to say,
"I choose you to
be my life's partner.
I love you...
and I vow to love you
'til I take my last breath.
[cheers and applause]
[cameras snapping]
[applause]
[Dale VO] It's a
bittersweet day.
-[India VO] Mm-hm.
-[Orna VO] Mm-hm.
[Dale VO] Bitter because we're
not gonna be sitting here with
you anymore...
[Orna VO] I know.
[Dale VO] And sweet because
[laughing] we're not gonna be
sitting here with you anymore.
[laughter]
Before these
sessions, I never...
realized how much I
poured out onto Dale.
Mm-hm.
I always thought I had it under
control or it was just internal
and, you know, he
didn't recognize it,
but I am projecting a lot!
[Orna] Mm-hm.
-I have a lot of stuff!
-I think we both are.
-Yeah.
-Yeah.
Yeah.
That is what couples do.
[India] Mm-hm.
Yeah, I'm realizing
more and more;
it's like, I play a
part in it as well.
[Orna] Mm-hm.
There's something I gotta
take responsibility for here,
you know? Do a
little bit more work.
Mm-hm.
Did you just say
"responsibility?!"
-Oh, gosh!
-"Taking responsibility?!"
Oh my God, wow!
[India] [sighing] Yeah...
The work is so good, you know?
It's-- you know, you
want the progress,
you want the positive outcome,
but it starts emotionally
draining you...
Mm-hm.
Where you don't
want to, I don't know,
push anymore.
Mm-hm.
I think I wanna take a break
from rehashing old things.
[laughs]
Yep! Yep, yep.
I think we're good on
rehashing the old stuff.
[laughter]
There's been a lot of that
over the last couple of weeks.
Does it feel relentless?
Like there's just, like, one
session after the next after the
next?
No, I don't think it's-- I
don't think it's the sessions--
not necessarily the
sessions, just what...
kinda comes up
after the sessions.
It's the digging, it's the
digging into our past,
it's the, you know, addressing
our traumas and our problems.
Mm-hm.
But, you know, it's worth it
because just seeing our parents'
situation and
grandparents and uncles,
like...
I don't wanna be a part of
the cycle where you have other
outlets to soothe something that
you can just look at head-on and
work on it!
-Yeah.
-[Orna] Yeah.
You know?
It's been a lot of escaping from
our lineage of family members.
[Orna] Mm-hm.
[India] And I don't
wanna escape,
I don't wanna run.
[Dale] Yeah.
Dale, do you have a sense
of what's been particularly
meaningful, just in terms
of what we talked about?
Well, at least for me,
it was a opportunity for...
for India to at
least hear me out.
Mm-hm.
[Dale] And in terms of, like,
the conversations that we were
having last session, there's
definitely going to have to be
some kind of emotional rewiring
now that I'm with someone that I
can trust.
-[India] Yeah.
-[Dale] Yeah.
[Orna] That's very
moving to hear.
[Dale] Yeah, yeah,
that's where I'm at with it.
-[India] Yeah.
-[Dale] Yeah.
And I have to also be
honest and say I was...
I was adamant, almost, in the
beginning when were looking for
a therapist to have
a therapist of color.
It's always a debate in my
mind about whether it's better for
people to see people
of their same race.
-Yeah.
-I don't know.
'Cause it can work against
you as well, I think, too.
-Yeah!
-It can work against you?
Yeah, if you're too familiar
with the culture and what's,
you know, kind of
almost what is expected...
[Orna] Mm-hm.
It's almost, like, just
kinda schlepped over.
-[Orna] Yeah.
-Mm-hm.
Yeah.
Right, where you assume a
certain kind of sameness that
might not be true.
[Dale] Yeah.
-[India] Yeah.
-[Dale] Yeah.
But I really appreciate
you, because you make...
you make and you
made me feel very safe.
-Mm-hm.
-[India] I appreciate that.
So I'm glad I did not
stick to my g*ns with one.
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
-You know?
-That was--
-I'm glad, too.
-[India] Yeah! [chuckles]
-[Dale] [chuckles]
Yeah, and now, we can
have you on speed dial.
[laughs] I know.
-[laughs]
-Right.
[laughs]
cool funky music
[car honks]
[Orna VO] How are you two?
We're okay.
Not as, uh...
euphoric, I guess, as when
we started the last session but...
Mm-hm.
We were, like, on
cloud nine last week.
[Orna] Yeah.
Yeah, and then here I go just...
shoo, bringing it all down.
You know, I was thinking about
your comment at the end of last
session...
Mm-hm.
About, like, the crushes,
and one way to think about it is
that you were saying
to the two of you,
"Look, there's still
stuff for us to work on.
We're not on cloud nine."
Mm-hm.
You know, what
she said was hurtful,
but she kept wanting
to have conversations,
and I was like, "What
did Orna tell you?
Orna told you you need to have
the conversation with yourself,
not me."
[Orna] Mm-hm, yeah.
[Yaya] Talk to
your subconscious,
maybe bring it to the forefront
why you even said that.
I think what really
brought it to light
was just writing about it--
Great, so you wrote.
'Cause she wasn't gonna hear it,
so I wrote about it.
Oh, so good.
But I wrote just
the whole bunch of,
like, little details
where I was like,
"Oh, do I feel like
I'm deserving of this?
Do I feel like, you know,
I'm just the one that always
sabotages stuff?"
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
-Like, I have all these fears...
Mm-hm.
But the one thing that I know
and that I want after writing
all of that was her.
Yeah.
[Cyn] I choose you.
[chuckles]
So that comment didn't bring
us back to how we were in the
beginning.
It didn't bring
us-- no, no, no, no.
[Orna] Good.
So that would have been-- so
I think that's something that we
should be proud of.
-Yeah.
-Yes.
Like, this just took us
back a couple of steps,
which is okay
[Orna] Mm-hm.
We know how could it could be...
[Orna] Mm-hm.
'Cause we were there, so let's
focus on what we still need to
work on.
Mm-hm.
[Yaya] We're trying.
I feel like we're in a better
place than when we started...
Absolutely.
Even though we're not in
our euphoric cloud anymore.
[chuckles]
I think it's just-- we just
had to pop that bubble....
-Yeah.
-I think that's--
I kinda liked it
there, you know?
Well, we can get back there--
-Yeah.
-And just...
We can't let the work that
we've done go to waste,
you know?
[Orna] Mm-hm.
And how do you feel
about it coming to an end?
[sighs]
Partly, it's good.
Partly, it's like, "Oh...
I'm sad."
But I'm kinda happy
that I still got you.
Like, she didn't walk away!
Like, after all of this stuff,
all of the things that I said,
all the things that I feel
like I'm putting you through,
all these draining
emotions, you're still here!
Like, I'm happy about that!
Yeah.
So when you say, "Oh, we're
not on cloud nine anymore,"
I'm like, "Yeah, but I'm still
really kinda happy inside."
[Yaya] Yeah.
[Cyn] So it just... [sighs]
This experience definitely...
it changed us.
It kinda brought
us back to, like,
being in a relationship,
[chuckles] not just kinda like--
Yeah, absolutely!
Being roommates.
[Orna] Right.
Look how delighted
the two of you...
have become
talking to each other.
-[Yaya] Yeah.
-Yeah.
So now, it's actually...
becoming a full
marriage. [chuckles]
[Orna] Yeah. Uh-huh.
quirky ambient music
[Orna VO] You know
how some people,
especially towards the end,
they have this what we call
"transference cure?"
[Virginia VO] Yeah.
[Orna VO] Like they
know it's the end of therapy,
so they need to present
themselves as all better?
[Virginia VO] Yeah.
I think Cyn and Yaya, they
were kind of going in that direction
of being, like, the
model patients and--
[Virginia] Yeah.
And giving me the gift
of them being better...
-[Virginia] Yeah.
-But...
luckily, Cyn could not
tolerate that level of...
[Virginia] Yeah.
-Falsity.
-Yeah.
[Orna] She's like, "I'm not
gonna just be put in a box..."
Yeah.
[Orna] "And be,
like, good wifey."
Yeah.
"Things are not perfect,
but I choose you."
Right, you know,
it's like Heaven.
[Orna] Yeah, it's beautiful.
Beautiful.
[child squealing]
Oh! [laughs]
[Orna VO] It was a good
experience working with them,
even though what they
presented with was very difficult.
[Virginia VO] Right.
[Orna VO] But they were
willing to take chances,
and ultimately, I felt
like there was a real...
loving bond there.
[Virginia VO] Yes.
[Orna] It's gratifying.
Yeah.
mellow ambient music
[Molly VO] [sighs]
You know what's so amazing?
Is the passage of time, right?
Like, especially with what my
daughters are going through,
they don't need me as much...
Mm-hm.
I've been spending
so much time feeling...
angry about the passage of time.
But today, when I woke up
and it was, like, a new day...
[chuckles]
I felt so grateful for
the passage of time,
and not...
again, "Nothing lasts forever."
Mm-hm.
In yoga, they call
it a "aparigraha,"
which means, like,
"non-grasping" or
"non-hoarding."
[Orna] Mm-hm.
And not just necessarily
physical things,
but also, like, hoarding time.
Mm-hm.
That's my insight
[laughing] for the day.
I have some associations
to what you're saying,
but I wanna hear where the
two of you are with the passage of
time.
Yeah, just feeling...
more on the side of the exhale.
-Mm-hm.
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
Mm-hm.
Felt like I was-- I feel like
I've been living at the top of
it, like, holding my breath...
Mm-hm.
Um...
yeah, that image of, like,
a frayed electrical wire.
[Orna] Mm-hm.
But now, you know, I
can't help but think about...
what I didn't understand,
which is that by emotionally
withholding, I have
a part in this too.
Mm-hm.
'Cause I think in the past, I
have mostly walked away feeling
indignant...
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
-And feeling like...
you know, the nice guy who's
misunderstood by his wife.
[laughs]
[laughs]
[Orna] [laughs]
[laughing] Aha, there it is!
[laughs]
That is-- that's it!
-It is!
-[Molly] That is...
[Josh] That's how I feel!
I mean, I don't
feel that way today.
[Orna] Right.
I have needed
that t-shirt for years!
-[Orna] [laughs]
-Yes!
Yeah, so I was thinking,
when you were talking about
aparigraha, I started
to think about asteya,
which is like--
-[Orna] About what?
-So "asteya" is like this--
So another word is "asteya,"
which means "non-stealing."
[Orna] Mm-hm.
Which could also
refer to not just things,
of course, but...
energy...
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
-Time...
I think that the grasping
and stealing is very good.
-[Molly] Mm-hm.
-You grasp, you steal.
Yeah, and sometimes, I'm
stealing her time when I'm not
even in her presence because
of what I've done to cause the,
you know--
[Orna] That's great.
To cause that cycle
to, you know, play out.
I don't know, I
didn't mean to, like,
wrap some sort of button
on-- and bow on anything at all,
I just-- that's sort of--
But first of all, I very much
appreciate what you're saying.
I'm sure it's very meaningful
for you to hear that.
You're each doing
real, good work together,
so that's yours.
I think that's where I...
that's where I am
so different than...
the first time we sat here...
Mm-hm.
When I wanted to run
away from this whole thing.
Yeah.
Mm.
So...
how are the two of
you feeling about,
indeed, this stuff
you brought up from,
like, way back in your past?
It's funny, because even though
things are not really worked
out, I feel relaxed...
[Orna] Mm-hm.
[Molly] And in a
more peaceful place.
And you?
[Josh] I feel much lighter.
It feels like it's
time just-- to me,
I feel like, "Okay, I don't have
to keep carrying this around
anymore."
Mm-hm.
I need to remember that
sh*t can get pretty bad in life,
and the lesson now is, like,
you do what you have to do to...
to face it--
Mm-hm.
And say it out loud
and talk about it and...
say, "This is our life.
Look!
And look!
Look, everybody!
This is my life!
This is our life!"
[laughs]
-You know?
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
-"What am I gonna say?!"
-[laughs]
"You think I'm this really
wonderful, nice husband.
Well, I am!
But I'm also all
these other things,
and so is Molly.
Molly's this person that
you think she is but..."
And that makes up our...
that makes up our
story, you know?
And...
[voice cracking]
I love our story.
[chuckles]
I don't think we should
say anything else.
"ACOUSCOUS" by EMAWK
-[chuckles]
-[chuckles]
Tea for the first
time in a long time
Looking for a good
sign all in good time
Take two
Take a breather for you...
Thank you.
A break from the melancholy
A break from the melancholy...
[Yaya] Thank you.
Thank you. Buh-bye.
But not always
You good
Here's a free
pass, just sit back
Close your eyes and just
Be
Be
Here's a free
pass, just sit back
Close your eyes and just
Be
Be
Kitchen conversations,
seas over seas
Sounds like everything I need
Take three
Take a breather for me
Put down the shell, let
the waves hit your soul
And let yourself finally let go
Take three
Take a breather for me
Anybody wanna ask
about it [You good]
Anybody need to ask
about it [You good]
Anybody need to ask
about it [You good]...
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