♪suspenseful
piano♪
I'm, like, getting
waves of nausea
and feeling super tired,
super hungry.
I will be shocked
if I'm not pregnant.
I get myself pregnant...
by a guy who...
used to wake me up with
a punch in the face.
You know, you went
through it, you lived-
keep it movin'.
Who wrote the poem you
sent me this morning?
I wrote it, you
fruit loop-
[laughs]
while walking
the dog.
And I liked it.
[kiss]
-Thank you.
-Accuse me of plagiarism.
[laughs]
We bend over
backwards to...
give the other person
what we think they want.
[Orna]
Mm-hm.
[Annie] You know, we-
we don't feel compatible.
We don't wanna do
the same things.
When we have shared
interests, it's from effort.
If we remove that...
I don't know
what we have.
You know knowing
what we know now,
if we were gonna
get married...
tomorrow, he wouldn't.
I mean, you'd be
an idiot to.
I wouldn't.
♪airy
music♪
Tell me about your
fears of incompatibility.
Seems...obvious.
Th- I mean, when
I met you,
I was like, "This is
a terrible mistake."
I mean, this is a
mistake.
It looks like a mistake.
And that's one mistake
I'm about to make.
And I'm going into it
eyes wide open."
-Okay.
-But now, where you are now-
-Mm-hm.
-In your...
-I feel the same way.
-long relationship.
The only - I think that
what's changed
is that...
I think I thought
that my sacrifice
in my mind
was going to yield
this result over here.
And that was- that
was worth doing.
All the sacrifices
were worth it.
Um, and I th- and now,
it feels more like...
I actually was in your way.
I was stopping you from...
realizing yourself in
a way that...
would've been m-
better for you.
You would've been
happier.
I think you would've
been, you know-
[Orna]
For example?
Like, how- what- how would
Annie live differently?
[Mau]
I feel she's...
always wanting to
believe in me,
but the things I say
sound just a little
bit too much.
I don't know that I would
accept someone else
saying even what I say.
I accept it 'cause
I'm saying it...
and my expectation...
is that she needs to
accept it because
I'm saying it,
and any trespass
on that,
I view as, like,
a betrayal.
You said you- it's very-
when you feel challenged,
you feel like that's
when you-
[Mau]
Yeah.
-R- react.
-[Mau] Mmm.
But I- I don't know,
in my mind,
it sounds like
in one way...
Mau, you're describing
how you live,
I guess, based on your...
-background, your-
-[Mau] Mm-hm.
history, the history
that you described.
What are you doing?
Just walking around.
Yes.
-Okay.
-And- and the
question of your,
I guess, what you're
calling your...
sensitivity to being
challenged.
[Mau]
Mm-hm.
[Orna]
Just that you have
your way of thinking
about things,
and it's just very
difficult for you...
to move from that.
[Annie] He's an
impossible...
ship to steer,
and I understand that's
not my job.
Mm-hm.
[Annie] I'm exhausted
by like,
running to keep up...
you know, that I can't...
just have it be a simple,
"Can you just turn
the car around?
We're two blocks
from home.
I just realized I forgot
my sunglasses."
You know?
Like no,
I can't.
I also can never be
the driver,
so...
that's never up to
me either.
If we are
together...
I am on his...ride.
If we are together-
[Orna] That's what
you're exhausted by?
-Yes.
-[Orna] By the fact that
it's very hard to
influence Mau
-When he goes on-
-Yes.
-Oh my gosh, yes.
-[Orna] Okay.
That's it exactly.
-[Orna] Okay.
-Because it's not just
-that stuff.
-[Orna] The- the difficulty
influencing Mau.
-Period.
-[Orna] I- I get it.
Well, first of all, what
do you think about
this way of summarizing
things,
what's exhausting
Annie at least,
that your- that your...
f- fixity,
or your rigidity is...
maddening to her?
Uh...
I think it's maddening
to her, yeah.
Mm-hm.
She has a- a fairly...
narrow perspective when
it comes to that...
-that's-
-[Orna] Narrow perspective
meaning she's not taking
into account other things?
Yeah.
-So, you're saying-
-[Annie] It- That's-
[Mau] Your choices
in life are this.
I mean, a- as-
Please don't- don't make
a giant summary right now,
-Please.
-Okay,
no giant summaries.
-[Orna] But this-
-She's right, that's correct
and you should
feel that way.
No, it's not that I should
feel this way.
-She does feel that way.
-I shouldn't feel this way.
She shouldn't feel
this way.
I would love to not
feel this way.
I do feel this way.
She does feel that way.
And you don't have
to make it
the story then be in
defense of yourself...
that I have a
narrow view,
or I have a
limitation,
or I have a-
That's exactly what
I'm talking about.
Annie...
we turn the car around,
I take different routes.
We go and don't go.
I swap the thing out.
I change my clothes.
With the thing that
you're describing,
you get.
The thing you
can't get
which is unachievable
is you can't get it
-That's it.
-So, you're saying that...
You don't have
a problem.
You make sense...
with a dentist.
-And I'm-
-[sighs]
Annie, wait, whoa.
I don't mean like an
actual dentist.
I mean...
there is- there's-
you know, there's a...
less challenging
relationship
out there...
that y- you don't have
to fight so hard.
Like you're- you're-
The dudes always
turning around,
and eating chocolate
cake with cinnamon,
and he's never-
he's- they...
I don't know
what he is...
but it's not a
problem...
right?
So, that goes back to
my point of, like,
what's left?
[laughs]
♪emotional
guitar♪
I'm not pregnant.
[Orna] And how are we
feeling about that?
Pretty shitty.
There's a lot going on.
I think we're both,
like, pretty raw...
today.
Yeah, it's been a
hard couple days.
Yeah, it's not all, like,
the pregnancy stuff.
It's, like, the...
news, and the, like,
Trump memo.
Yes, I was thinking
about you two.
I think that's...
really weighing
heavy on both of us.
It's just all these things
like, compounding.
[Orna]
Mm-hm.
Even, like, this...
baby thing is, like...
not anybody's fault.
Like, I chose this life...
but it's so hard...
and I feel like I'm
being punished
all the time.
Like, most of the time...
I really don't let
the news...
into my world.
because this is
what happens,
because I don't
understand like...
what that could look like.
I don't-
-I can't think of it.
-Concretely in terms of
your life, or...
But you do
understand something,
which is that if
you take it in...
it...
poisons you.
It shifts things inside.
Well I think just like
with everything else,
you have to be
quite intentional
about how you're
taking this in.
What about the
pregnancy itself?
I started to get
pretty excited...
and it kinda felt like...
this was the most important
thing to us, so like...
great.
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
-I can take
all the other sh*t.
We didn't even get to
go take a test.
Like, I had gotten
my period.
[Orna]
Mm-hm.
[Sarah]
It's tricky.
There's part of me that's,
like, a little bit relieved.
Because it's such a
f*cking crazy time.
Yeah.
And the other part of
me is, like, devastated.
Not even that
I'm not pregnant...
just devastated that...
our tries are
so limited.
[Orna]
Yeah.
It's like a roll
of the dice,
and now we wait.
And now, we...
do invasive surgery.
And it's just, like...
are you f*cking
kidding? Like...
we don't get
to just...
keep trying under the
guise of like,
"We're, like, not
not trying."
-Like, you know what I mean?
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
We don't just-
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
-Get to keep rollin' the dice.
[Orna]
Mm-hm.
There's no dice on
the table right now.
I just feel really...
stupid.
To have tried?
I have thoughts
about that,
but I wanna hear your...
reaction, or...
thoughts.
It's been...hard...
to have deeper
conversations between us
about, like, the pain...
that she's going through,
and I'm going through,
like, while...
we're just trying to
put out fires.
Is there more
that is- w-
that we should
add to this?
-Is the kitchen..?
-[Sarah] Yeah.
It's the kitchen,
and before that,
it was, like,
our schedules
were too full.
And as soon
as we, like,
took the schedules down,
it was like...
now the kitchen's gonna
consume everything.
I just f*cking don't know
what to do with it all.
[Orna]
Mm-hm.
I mean, it's, like,
it's really unfortunate
timing
that this pregnancy...
didn't happen exactly
around this time.
[Sarah]
Yeah.
But this is...
random.
[Sarah]
Mm-hm.
Yeah, I don't
really buy that.
[Orna] That it's
random?
Yeah.
It just feels like
all this sh*t that's
happening right now
is so big,
that it's hard to...
ignore.
Like it feels like
the universe
is hitting me
over the...head
with some kind
of message,
and I'm not-
I'm not getting it.
All of the sh*t
that's happening
on the
political arena-
-No.
-[Orna] or...
-your kitchen, or-
-Everything,
Right.
All of it.
like all-
-add it all up.
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
And it feels like
it should mean...
something
that all of this
is happening
at the same time.
But you can
also say
that it means...
that you...
the two of you
have a way of...
packing it in...
and hurrying...
so much
that sometimes,
you're gonna
find yourself
suddenly when one
thing starts...
tipping, another thing
tips,
and you're...
suddenly in this kind
of situation.
Mm-hm.
[Orna]
And...
you're kinda young
and impulsive.
So, it is punishment.
For being impulsive.
like this- we deserve
this then.
No...
no, that's not what
I'm saying,
but you- you- you're-
you have, um...
a pressure there to
experience this
as punishment.
That's not what
I'm saying.
I'm saying it's random.
That what you're seeing
as related
has something
to do-
h- has nothing
to do
with the relationship
between these events...
but it has to do with
something totally different...
which is that
your kitchen,
and the- the
the pregnancy,
uh, the
administration,
who could've
foreseen that,
but the kitchen, and
the pregnancy...
happen at the
same time
because
you didn't wait to
finish your kitchen
before getting-
trying to get pregnant.
That's not a crime.
It's a risk.
It's not a crime...
that deserves
punishment.
♪soft
piano♪
[Orna] I have two worries
about Sarah.
One is...
this thing that she keeps
falling back to about,
um...
being stuck in the
caretaker role...
-[Virginia] Yeah.
-Which...
I can see that Lauren doesn't
know what to do about that.
Yeah.
[Orna]
And...
it sounds to me like...
i-i-i-like the- this
punish narrative
is that there's the idea
that she's being
punished
for living a q*eer life,
and that she should
get back in line.
And that things will
not go well for her
if she's not doing
what she
was raised
to do.
She keeps talking
about how
she comes from
a family
where everyone is
so conservative.
[Virginia]
Right.
She saw men
originally.
She keeps talking
about how easy it is
for straight people,
which is actually not true.
[Virginia] That's what
I was wondering
whether in her...
pre- q*eer,
pre-g*y life,
did she have...
at least in her r-
retrospective
telling...
an easier time
in a heteronormative
life?
She talks about all
these other
heteronormative people-
-[Virginia] I know.
-that are having an easier time.
[Virginia] Right, but n-
we don't know about her
-heteronormative life.
-Yeah, I don't know about her.
[Orna] I don't
know exactly...
the limits of
what to say.
[Virginia]
Yeah, I- yeah.
We've been here
before, you and I.
Yeah.
[Virginia] But this
particular moment...
I wouldn't have such a conflict
about just sitting with it,
and thinking about
it later.
But I get...
that you wanna see
if you can do more.
♪soft
strumming♪
[Desean] This woman
who work for me
had a death in the family.
So the night before,
she's kinda hammering
me about,
"Why do you need to
go to this funeral?"
I'm like, "What's
the big deal?"
And then she says...
"I asked you to do
something for me.
You couldn't do it,
but you're gonna go
to a stranger's funeral."
I said, "What's
upsetting you?
What exactly
-are you angry at?"
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
-That's- I learned that here-
-[Orna] Yeah.
-going to therapy.
-Yeah.
"If you're mad at
me because...
I'm going to
this thing,
uh, why?
Why does that bother
you so much?
[Orna]
Mm-hm.
You don't even
know this person."
I'm like, "I actually do.
She works for me."
You know,
I- I'm doing
something that...
involves anyone
else...
so now...
"How dare I?"
kinda thing.
You know?
Like...
I'm getting mad.
-Jump in.
-[Orna] By this- by this-
Because...
I cannot get him
to wake up
before eight o'clock,
or before ten o'clock
on a Saturday
or a Sunday.
But you're gonna go to this
person's sister's funeral?
Why?
A lot of people
die and-
people's mother's sister's
cousin's brother's
uncles died his-
at his job.
So, I need to know...
wh- who this
person is,
what the importance
of this person is
-that made you get up.
-[Orna] So...
I-I-I...
wanna try to...
cut to the chase.
Y- The moment
you're going, like,
"Why aren't you?"
you're already back
in the same trap.
Okay.
But you start off just
from where you are...
when you make this kinda
decision to wake up
Saturday morning, and
go to this funeral...
this is what it
brings up for me.
It makes me
feel like
everyone else
has a level of
priority in his life
that I don't.
Okay.
-And-
-Can you just say that?
Mm-hm.
I- I wanna see
what happens.
Can you imagine...
not even taking
the bait?
Yeah.
And going straight
to the heart?
I- I- I- Yeah.
But what would happen
if Desean said,
"You know you're
the most important
person in my life?
I love you.
I'm sorry you
feel this way"?
Um...
[Orna] It sucks
to feel this way.
It'd be nice
to hear...
but...
it's- it goes back to
what I said before.
You know, you- you-
you can't punch somebody
in the face,
and then tell them
you love them.
-Who do I believe-
-What's the punch?
The punch in the face,
like, literally,
you can't punch
somebody in the face-
But what is
the analogy,
-what's the punch?
-The analogy is
you can't do two
different con-
But what was the punch?
The punch is
you doing exactly what
you're sorry about, yet-
[Orna] Meaning going
to the funeral?
Or making those kinds
of decisions.
Wait, but-
Elaine-
Making me feel
that way, yeah!
He's not making
you feel this way.
He's not making
you feel this way.
Okay.
He's deciding...
to do something-
-Often
-that he thinks is important.
-Okay, mm-hm.
-Yeah.
That is not-
that- that is not
the equivalent
of punching you
in the face.
Perhaps the analogy
is a little rough, but-
[Orna] But it's not
only a little rough,
it- it gives you...
a direct clue
as to where these
feelings come from.
Huh.
That's interesting.
[Orna]
Right.
You've described
a relationship
in which- I mean the
father of your son
was that man.
That's interesting.
Huh.
[Desean] So, here's
my thing.
If she says,
"You know, I- I would like
for you to do things
with me on a Saturday
morning,"
and I'm like, "I'd rather
sleep in, right?"
All the time.
Go on.
-All the time.
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
And something comes
up on a Saturday-
[Orna]
Mm-hm.
that would require me
-to have to get up, and go.
-[Orna] Yeah, mm-hm.
Am I to...
never do anything...
because I've said no
to you for this thing?
That's what it
feels like.
-It's ridiculous.
-[Orna] I understand.
It puts the two
of you-
-I- I understand each of you-
-It's ridiculous.
And it puts the
two of you
in a very
difficult spot.
She has a need that
I cannot fulfill for her
as her husband.
I can't.
[Orna] The need
to feel special?
Yeah.
I can't fulfill
that need for her.
I just can't.
Nothing
I do...
Absent of just
dropping everything,
and everyone,
no con- you know,
and just...
focus on her 24/7-
-Mm-hm.
-[Desean] Maybe that'll work,
I don't know.
Mm-hm.
[Desean]
But she has...
a need that I cannot
provide for her...
-and-
-That's the conclusion
-you're coming to-
-[Desean] Yep.
To not be able
to provide,
what's that like
for you?
Makes me feel
inadequate.
Makes me feel,
um...
crappy.
I'm the type of
person, if I can't
-bring any value to this-
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
You won't-you won't
need to see me.
I won't hang around.
I- I- I don't wanna
be a part of it.
[Orna]
Mm-hm.
I'm not gonna
cause you pain.
I'm not gonna...
If I can't fix
this thing-
[Orna] So, let's just
stay with this feeling
what you're giving...
is not...
[Desean]
Not enough.
Not of value,
not enough.
Your love is
not enough.
Yeah.
Can you imagine
what that's like?
Yes.
-I mean-
-but do you hear it?
I hear it.
[Orna] Does it
matter to you?
-Of course, it does.
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
-Of course, it does.
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
I mean, I'm leaning
more on you in
this conversation
because this happens
to be a kind of conflict
when I feel like you have
more work to do about it.
So, this is not kind of an
evenly distributed pressure
but I need to put
pressure on you here.
One way to
say it is that
you're taking a relatively
neutral event...
and you're-
it's like, I mean, to
put it in very m-
-blunt terms-
-[Elaine] Mm-hm, mm-hm.
Your history of
trauma is...
pouring color
all over it
on a neutral event.
And y- you're ending
up feeling horrible...
and pushing your
partner away.
Mm-hm.
Mmm.
Now, I- I- I'm saying
this aware of the fact
that you're suffering
in this kind of moment
is real.
You really feel like,
"Oh my god,
he- he'll do anything
for anyone else,
-and not for me.
-[Elaine] Mm-hm, mm-hm...
There I am, nobody cares.
-I'm not important. I'm alone.
-[Elaine] Mm-hm, mm-hm.
I understand that that's
your real experience.
Mm-hm, mm-hm,
mm-hm.
[Orna] But I can also
see how this is
a kind of moment
where...
it's like your unconscious
is just pouring
a pile of paint...
on a neutral canvas.
[Elaine]
Mmm.
Well, I don't know
how to not paint.
[Orna]
Mm-hm.
Because I'm not conscious
that I'm doing it-
-[Orna] Right.
-So it's not like I can connect
-to something-
-[Orna] Right.
-To switch it off, right?
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
So, like, I- I honest
to goodness-
Do you have any idea how
you could be helpful?
[laughs]
Do I have any idea?
No, no.
I used to sort of say,
"All right, okay, okay,"
but I don't do
that anymore.
-I'm like-
-[Orna] Meaning to just appease-
-[Desean] Yeah.
-And, let's say,
-cancel the funeral?
-[Desean] Yeah.
No, no, that is not
the way to do it.
-That- it doesn't happen.
-No.
[Desean] I don't do
that anymore.
That is not gonna work.
That's not gonna address...
-the ultimate-
-[Desean] So-
to answer your question,
I don't know.
-You don't know?
-I don't know.
I don't know.
Can you think of a way that
Desean can both
kind of maintain his
integrity as a person,
making his own
decisions,
and care about you?
So, here's- here's the
thing about that.
I- I- I feel like if
it's rehearsed,
it's doesn't come
from within.
Like if you
care, you care.
And if you don't,
then you really don't,
and so, I can't
make you care
-by giving you choices.
-Right, but caring is not-
That's what happens with
this kind of trauma mind,
that you set it up
so that the...
evidence for care is
actually impossible...
because...
canceling a funeral
in this kind of case
is not an act of
caring.
It's an act of
compliance.
But then i- my mind
goes right back to,
you know, all
of the things
that you didn't keep
your word on.
It's almost like...
-I have a VHS tape-
-Mm-hm.
And I can rewind every
instance-
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
-Of...that.
[Orna] And the
VHS tape...
is designed
to reinforce
the feeling
that you do not
matter.
Hm, that's- that-
that's-
-[Orna] That tape-
-Interesting.
-That tape is your enemy.
-[Elaine] That's interesting.
That tape is your...
prison.
That's history grabbing
onto you,
and not letting
you
live your
current life.
You're such a
fierce lioness,
and you're forward,
forward, forward,
but history is catching
up with you.
Nah, I won't let it.
Nah...I won't let it.
♪soft
fingerpicking♪
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