When you talk about,
like, our differences,
Brock doesn't care about things
in the way that I care about
them.
Like, we're-- we're not
aligned on how we see the world,
like how we envision the future.
I am pretty radical.
Like, I'm basically a Marxist.
[laughs]
I'm liberal, but
I'm not Marxist.
You're a very...
traditional guy, I'm a
very non-traditional person,
and, like, that's not tenable!
If I say one wrong thing,
like, we are launching into the
stratosphere of argument.
- No, no, no!
- Just say it!
That's what you told
me you wanted to do!
- No, that's not what I said!
- You're beating around the bush
- here!
- But even if it's part of it--
- [Brock] That's not what I said!
- [Kristi] [sighs]
I'm not gonna be a
guru and kiss your ring!
I just want you to finally--
it's like if I've actually done
- my job, you will be with me!
- Oh my gosh, Kristi!
Our parents chose the
church over their children!
Our parents chose their
children in the construct of the
church!
It sounds shitty but, like,
your opinion doesn't hold as
much weight to me!
Well, then, yeah,
like, we have a problem.
The way I grew up, like,
h*m* meant safety,
and meant that you would be
together with your family
forever.
And so for you to
think differently...
like, I didn't grow up where
that was okay. [laughs]
You know?
cool ethereal music
[Orna VO] One of the things
people have to deal with is the
otherness of their partner.
I mean, often people
then try to deny it
or control it.
What are your politics of how
do you negotiate difference?
[Virginia VO] So for now, her
politics of working that through
are to try to get him
to change, to submit.
[Orna VO] Yeah.
She's not allowing
herself to actually see him,
but she keeps kind
of pressuring him.
So we just signed a
lease on a new apartment...
together.
[Brock] Yup.
[Kristi] Not now; it'll
happen in a few months.
Uh-huh.
- [Brock] Yeah.
- So...
- Excited...
- [Kristi] And now, we're like--
- Also nervous.
- [Kristi] Nervous. [laughs]
Very nervous.
[Orna] But can we just
backtrack a little bit?
So...
the decision to move
back in together--
[Kristi] Mm-hm.
Tell me about that.
I think that, like...
[Orna] I mean, have you
been talking about it?
Not really, honestly.
[Brock] Not really.
But, like, honestly, a lot
of it's financially driven.
Mm-hm.
Which-- actually, that-- like,
that's the primary motivating
- force for me too.
- [Kristi] Yeah.
And that's a little scary that
that's the motivating force.
- [Orna] Mm-hm.
- [Kristi] Yeah.
[Brock] That freaks
me out a little bit.
- Mm-hm.
- [Kristi] Mm-hm.
I'm thinking a lot about,
like, this feeling I've had of
independence, right?
Of freedom.
Like, how do I
maintain that now--
- [Orna] Mm-hm.
- In a shared space?
And so, like, I felt good
about the unit -- I liked it --
but I definitely saw in my
head separate living spaces.
Like, I-- I saw that.
What do you mean?
Like, a place for me to
go at night and sleep,
and, like, have
my night routine.
And that's why we kind of
argued-- we were arguing
yesterday, 'cause I
really wanted a Murphy bed.
Mm-hm.
I want a bed that
I can pull down,
- and it's my bed, right?
- Mm-hm.
[Kristi] But it's
still a one-bedroom;
it's still not a ton of space.
Like, I don't know if I want a
Murphy bed taking up a quarter
of the one shared
living space, and--
Yeah.
I was kind of
envisioning that, like,
we sleep in the same bed again.
Like, if you don't
wanna live me with,
then why are we getting
this one-bedroom apartment?
Like...
Well, I do wanna live with you,
but I don't really see a problem
with having a separate...
bed space.
Yeah...
I dunno.
- [Brock] Well--
- [Kristi] [sighs]
Are you open to
being flexible on that?
Or is it "I can only
sign the lease if we're--"
No! I just don't think
that makes a lot of--
I don't know, I just don't--
I just don't--
that just doesn't make
a lot of sense to me.
Like, are we
coming together or not?
Are you-- can you tell
something about how you're
feeling about what Brock is
saying -- that he's suggesting
that you sleep separately?
How are you feeling about it?
I'm feeling sad...
that, like, you're not excited.
It sounds like this is
gonna be like, what?
You...
plugging your nose and
swallowing this decision down?
Like, I didn't think that
it would be this, like...
huge negotiation to, like,
sleep in the same f*cking bed!
Well, try--
- I mean, you're getting mad--
- [Kristi] [sighs]
But you're saying
that underneath,
it sounds like you're hurt?
[Kristi] Yeah!
Because you're understanding it
as a statement that Brock is...
I mean, it definitely
feels like a rejection.
Obviously.
[Orna] A rejection of?
Being with me?
Loving me?
Wanting to be in
partnership with me?
[Orna] Mm-hm.
I understand that when
you interpret something as
rejecting,
it can make you kind of tight
and protective of yourself,
but I don't know if
that's what's going on.
[Kristi] Mm-hm.
So...
maybe you can ask,
openly, if that's
what it's about.
I-- yeah.
[sighs]
Is-- I know-- [scoffs] it feels
stupid to even ask 'cause I know
you're gonna say
that's not what it's about,
that you literally-- it's
so surface level for you,
that you just wanna
sleep in your own space.
- Well...
- Wait, ask!
- [chuckles] Damn!
- Ask!
- Damn, girl!
- [Kristi] Okay!
- That's quite an assumption!
- Is that what's it about?
[Brock] No.
But what it is about is...
like, the last
couple years, like,
I have...
I feel like I've grown so
much as an individual --
and I know that you have too --
in our own spaces.
And part of it is me kind
of just being afraid--
- [sighs]
- [Brock] Of, like...
like, losing that.
And so, it's not a
rejection of you.
Like, I'm trying to, like...
I'm really trying
to preserve, like,
that part.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, it makes sense;
it's what I th-- yeah!
But I'm saying that, like,
moving into a one-bedroom
apartment with me...
feels like us
both compromising,
us both agreeing to give
up our individual spaces
to come together!
And it feels like I'm
willing to do that,
but you're not!
And so I'm, like,
here now being like,
"What gives?!"
I'm just confused.
Wait, do you feel like
you're giving up autonomy too?
[Kristi] Yes, yes, uh-huh!
Willingly!
But do you-- would
you like to have that?
Because--
No, I'm giving some up to
move into an apartment with you!
And it feels like you don't
wanna do that same thing!
Because we don't have
to make that sacrifice.
So I don't really see it as
a sacrifice because it's not
something we have to make.
[scoffs] [sighing] Oh my God...
I don't-- I...
I have a really hard
time understanding,
because it's like...
Well, I wish you woulda thought
of this before we went through--
I did!
- No, Kristi--
- [Orna] Hold on a second.
I did think about it!
[Orna] Hold on a
second, hold on a second.
Kristi, I...
I wanna help you...
figure this out together, but...
this contempt is defensive.
It's not gonna help you.
Try to have a
conversation without the--
Yeah, I can try, but he,
like-- but I also feel like,
Brock, you d-- I feel like I
have to fight so hard for,
like, the validity of, like,
my preferences and opinions
because...
you devalue them!
So it's just like I'm over
here fighting for my life,
- like, trying to, like--
- [Orna] Listen, listen.
I don't hear it exactly; it
sounds to me like you have two
different visions of how you
want this one-bedroom to feel
like and look like.
Yeah, apparently.
But that's...
this business of difference.
What is difficult for you
about what Brock is wanting for
himself?
It's something about the
way the apartment will look?
Or maybe something
about the meaning of this?
[Kristi] Yeah!
Basically... [scoffs]
it's just hard to just so
not see this the same way!
I'm thinking of, like...
the story of our
life as a couple...
is in boxes above
your bedroom right now.
And I was so excited to, like,
finally move into a space where
we could bring that
down and onto the walls!
- That's all up in boxes!
- [softly] Yeah.
[Kristi] And so when I
looked at that apartment,
I was like, "Here's a space
where we can-- that can finally
feel like home.
Like, finally feel like home!
This is a coming together, and
it's making a home together.
Like, it's going to feel
like our first apartment!"
[softly] Do you kind
of see it as a restart?
- [Kristi] [softly] Kind of.
- [softly] Yeah.
[sniffles]
So it's like if you
don't want that again...
it feels like you don't want us.
[whispering] And now I get it.
[sniffles]
mellow ethereal music
As f*cked up as
my childhood was,
you...
trying to explore
that with me
has bothered the f--
the sh*t out of me.
Like, all week, I'm like,
"What was she trying to get at?"
[both chuckle]
It was bothering me that
I didn't understand...
Mm-hm.
Like, 'cause it--
it felt like a--
you know, there's
the things you know,
the things you know
you don't know,
and the things you
don't know you don't know.
[Orna] Right.
It sat in a place that I
don't know I don't know.
[Orna] Yeah.
And it was driving me crazy.
So I'm, like, sitting there--
That's a really
good way of putting it.
[Josh] Yeah.
One thing that happens is when
there's a very intense thing
that gets triggered
in the relationship,
often it comes not only
from what's going on,
let's say,
between the two of you,
but also fueled by
things from your past.
Yup.
And the pain and
loneliness that you described,
it was such a palpable
description and it was so alive
the way you
described it that it...
it had a feeling that you're...
almost like you're
channeling something
that's way beyond
the two of you.
Yeah.
You know, something that kept
replaying in my head this past
week was, um, these very small
micro moments throughout my
- childhood, like--
- [Orna] Tell me!
I went really long periods of
time where my mom and my dad
- were separating...
- [Orna] Mm-hm.
- I couldn't see my dad.
- [Orna] Mm!
And my dad was my best friend.
[Orna] Mm-hm.
Like, I loved my dad,
I looked up to my dad,
he was like a superhero to me.
Like, if I could be half
the father my dad was,
like-- I'm-- I wanna cry
right now thinking about it.
[Orna] Mm-hm.
But, like, if I could be
half the father my dad was,
I-- I'd be proud of
myself, because my dad,
against...
He didn't-- he could've
been like any of his peers.
[Orna] Mm-hm.
My dad grew up in the
projects of Brooklyn,
and there's many, many other
fathers that just decided not to
- be in their--
- [Orna] Right.
Their children's lives,
especially in an adversary like
my mother.
But my dad, by any means,
made sure he was in my life.
He would sneak me a
phone and be like,
"This is how I'm gonna call
you, I'll meet you here at this
time," bring me
an Easter basket.
You know, like, he would do
these things that really meant a
lot to me.
So when I was
able to explore it,
it made me realize that
feeling of loneliness stems from
the moments where I h-- my...
I felt like I was
being kept from my dad.
[Orna] Mm-hm.
That's-- I really appreciate the
way you're talking about it and
following your own process.
And did you also allow yourself
to get connected to these
feelings of, like, longing
and loneliness and abandonment?
[Josh] Yeah.
[sighs]
Yeah, I think...
the f-- [sighs]
I-- I don't think I
resolved them in the way that--
[Orna] No!
But I think I
understood them a bit more.
[Orna] Mm-hm.
[Josh] But I think
at the same time,
I feel justified
in what I feel...
- Yeah!
- In my relationship --
my current relationship
with Natasha.
Like, I feel justified--
[Orna] Well, the thi-- of
course you're justified!
Let's say, I
don't know, Natasha,
I don't know if you have
any thoughts about this --
how this connects to
your dynamic -- but...
I think if I was
to look at it from, like,
a [chuckling]
"therapy" perspective...
[Orna] Mm-hm, mm-hm.
Is that if he is
feeling in any way,
like, a parallel
with his father,
anything that
happens between us,
I become a
parallel to his mother.
[Orna] Mm-hm.
And that could be really
tough to-- to reconcile with,
- right?
- [Josh] Yeah.
[Natasha] And so it may be
really easy to go back there.
I mean, this might
sound a little strange,
but one thought I'm having is
that it's almost like Natasha,
you're...
by withholding your...
warmth and intimacy,
you're the mom
holding back the dad...
Oh, yikes.
[Orna] From Josh.
You're holding
back the good stuff.
[Natasha] Yeah.
Wow.
- I could see that connection.
- Yeah.
And, like, to be that in any
capacity is sort of like...
shocking.
Like, I kinda just
wanna push it away.
It's not a
comfortable thought to have.
[Orna] Mm-hm.
[Josh] That's intr-- you
know, that's really interesting.
I just feel like-- I feel like
another door opened inside my
- brain.
- [Orna] Mm-hm.
I'm like, "Okay, I gotta...
you know."
Like, there's these
rooms in my brain,
and they're, like,
nice and organized and
- compartmentalized...
- [giggles]
And I'm like, "I did
all this work in there."
And I'm like, "Oh..."
Like, I moved the bookshelf
and there's another door,
and I'm like, "Where the
f*ck did this door come from?
- [Orna] [chuckles]
- [Natasha] It's hella dusty.
And I opened it, and it's
just f*cked up and messy!
- And I'm like, "Ahh!"
- [Natasha and Orna laugh]
[Josh] "There's just a little
much work to do in there!"
Uh-huh.
That's what it feels like just
happened at this very moment.
I'm like...
[sighs]
[softly] Yeah.
cool mellow music
[Orna VO] I'm finding it very
difficult for them to break up.
[Nuar VO] Yeah.
Part of it is I'm aware of the
fact that I'm charmed by them.
[Nuar] Mm-hm.
And like spending
time with them together.
I have this fantasy
in my mind, "Okay,
well, break up for a few
years, and then come back."
It's possible that this
isn't really about their not...
being a good match,
but maybe things are being
acted out right now--
Mm-hm.
That are destructive,
but it doesn't mean that,
with some analysis, it
can't be sorted through.
Yes, so that's what I
guess I wanted your minds on,
because it has another layer of
resonance and meaning for me to
be working with them because of
this kind of tortured part of
the Earth that we all come from.
Mm-hm.
Just-- it's all
about the Middle East!
It's-- it's like...
Yeah, I could cry saying that.
They're the only couple that
every time they walk in and
leave, we hug.
Mm!
It's like...
[Eyal] Mm!
So is this what it's-- I don't
know what it's like for you
guys, but just with working
with people who are like you,
who look like you, who
are going through...
But they're like me, yet
we're separated by this horrible
divide.
It's our army that's
responsible for the bombs that
- she-- traumatized her.
- [Orna] Yeah.
But maybe that's why you're so
invested in keeping the two of
- them together.
- [Orna] Yes.
It triggers kind of a
layer of fantasy that...
"Oh my God, here, we
can all get along!"
- [Nuar] Yeah.
- [Eyal] Yeah.
Mm-hm.
- How are the animals?
- So good.
They miss you.
How do you know?
Um, because, like, I feel like
you're better at giving cuddles
than I am.
How sad!
Well, I mean, I
think it's normal.
I think they've
had two years--
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Hello!
- Hi.
- Hi!
- Hi, baby!
- [chuckling] Hey!
[Nadine VO] [in baby voice]
Happy to see you!
[Christine VO] So I've started
sleeping at a different place.
But I'm also still paying
rent to where we live together.
I think space has been
instrumental in improving my
mental health.
I feel, like, 20 times better.
Mm-hm.
But on Friday, and I came
over, and I got really upset,
and I was, like, yelling.
[chuckles]
- I lost my temper.
- [Orna] About what?
[sighs]
Do--...
Yeah?
Do I talk about it?
I don't know what
you're talking about.
Oh, okay, well, I
guess let's talk about it.
When I found that thing.
Oh!
Oh! Okay.
[chuckles] I remember.
[chuckling] We had a
little bit of a "sitiation"...
God...
Where, um, Christine
happened upon one of my bags,
thought she saw something--
Well, it-- it was
still not great.
- [Nadine] Okay, well--
- [Christine] [squeals]
[Nadine] Well, I'm just--
Why are we so
mysterious about this?
[Nadine] No, it-- [stammers]
- No, she found something...
- Can we just say it?
- Can we get to the point?
- No!
Oh, okay.
Something related to sex.
Not for us.
So then, she um...
Got mad!
I got mad.
That's an example of the things
that I don't wanna see and stuff
- that I struggle with.
- And I totally understand.
So when I found
the sex thing--
[Orna] Mm-hm.
She went and looked
through my things.
- I didn't even use said thing.
- [Christine] But Nadine--
So then she's
yelling at me, I'm like,
"What is happening?"
And she didn't say anything
about the thing that she saw
because she knew
that that probably w--
- [Orna] What was she yelling?
- Uh--
- Oh, I feel like--
- I checked out.
Nadine keeps
downplaying everything,
saying, like, "No,
you should stay here!
You won't even know
when I'm seeing her!"
This and that.
But I was like, "I don't wanna
see you come and go with the
other person."
But you're arguing for the
two of you to continue living
- together?
- [Nadine] Yes.
- And I'm like--
- Hold-- hold--
"It's bad for my
mental health, girl!"
- Hold on, sister!
- [laughs]
[laughing] Um...
what I was sugge-- I was
saying that I want you to know,
like, I'm okay with,
like, you staying.
Like, we can figure
whatever you wanna figure out.
But she was, like, just
getting really upset,
and it felt like...
I didn't know what set her off--
But she's getting upset because
you're saying you don't like to
be-- for things to be in your
face what Nadine is doing.
Yes!
So why still live together?
I love her.
[chuckles]
If anything, I feel more love,
more-- probably 'cause of the
- space and--
- Mm-hm.
- All of that, right?
- Mm-hm, mm-hm.
Um, so it's like my feelings
aren't necessarily diminishing,
they're going in the
opposite direction.
And, to be fair,
sister, to be fair,
she was still very inclined
to, like, come home.
She'd be like,
"Oh, I forgot this!"
And then, like,
would come home--
Well, I also love you too!
[chuckles] I agree!
"I forgot a
hair, um--" [laughs]
- Yeah, she'll be like--
- "At the apartment." [laughs]
- "I need to come in."
- "I left a hair tie."
Yeah.
[laughs]
I'm like, "Girl, you don't
even wear hair ties but okay."
- [laughs]
- Um, so, like,
it's also like that.
Like, clearly, there's some part
of you that wants to be here too
- so, like--
- [Christine] Yeah, of course.
I don't see-- uh, I mean,
there's obviously [chuckles]
- real issues--
- [Orna] You're not suffering?
Uh, not in the same way.
No, that's not true, because
these outbursts and these
things, everything's tough.
[Orna] You suffer
when there's an outburst.
Yeah, but otherwise, um, I--
But if Christine
would keep it in--
[Nadine] Was okay...
- [chuckles]
- [Orna] You wouldn't suffer?
[chuckles] Yeah.
[Orna] But
Christine is suffering.
Yes.
Why would both of you ask to be
in a situation where one of you
needs to ignore
something that's happening?
Thank you.
[Orna] That's kinda
crazy-making for both of you.
I think it's I grew up
in spaces and, like,
was comfortable
being uncomfortable,
and, like, I'm
good at, like, just, like,
ffp-ffp-ffp, like, turning
certain things off and, like--
- [Orna] That's not good for you!
- I agree, yeah.
- [Christine] Mm-hm.
- It's not good for you.
It just makes me super sad.
[sighs] Yeah, I'm sad too.
- [Nadine] Um...
- Say?
Oh, it's so sad,
[chuckles] so sad.
I hate that we're
not living together.
I hate, like, knowing
that you're near...
and, like, not here.
I hate, like, that we have
animals and we're not together.
It really bums me
out big time, yeah.
[Christine] Yeah, yeah.
Um...
yeah.
[Christine] I hear ya.
But Nadine, you mention that you
want to have a relationship with
this other-- or
whoever else, and already,
you're treating
the other person--
Yeah.
With more respect and
consideration than you treated
me, which is another
reason why I'm angry.
[Orna] Mm-hm.
But of course, good for
her, wonderful person,
but...
what the heck?!
- Yeah.
- I deserve the same!
[Nadine] Mm.
Like, I-- I don't understand
why you think that you can step
all over me!
It hurts my feelings that I know
you have the capacity to move
through relationships
with consideration!
Baby, I do have a capacity,
and I think that I was trying to
move-- you need to
understand, like,
when I'm in a state of feeling
like somebody's all over me,
when I'm in a state of feeling
like no matter what I do,
it's gonna be a problem, when
I'm in a state of feeling--
- I was in legit panic
- - like, panic --
um, in our dynamic often times.
Like, I would just get-- like,
even the way you're looking at
- me right now makes me nervous.
- Oh...
- And so--
- [chuckles]
[chuckling] Um...
Panic that you're being caught?
- [Nadine] I'm in trou-- like--
- You're in trouble.
[clapping] I recreated
my stepmom, I think.
[Orna] Yeah.
Like, I recreated a very
specific [chuckling] parental
- dynamic--
- Mm-hm.
[Nadine] That was
not in service of me.
So can you spend a couple of
weeks without seeing each other?
Mm-hm.
Sad.
And focus on the
fact that you are...
breaking up as partners,
and see what that
actually feels like.
- Two weeks apart?
- [Orna] Two weeks apart.
And let's meet after that,
see how you're feeling.
Can you just send me pictures
of the cats every now and then
- and the animals?
- 100 percent.
Okay, thanks, I just
wanna know they're alive.
[chuckles]
Maybe you don't even need that.
[Christine] [inhales sharply]
The cats are alive,
they look the same.
[both laugh]
[laughing] Okay, okay.
- She's coming' for you!
- Yeah.
- [all laugh]
- Okay, okay, okay, okay.
[both laugh]
Ooh oh
Ooh oh oh
Ooh oh
Oh oh
Last time I
walked in this room
Didn't want to
wrongly assume
Could've sworn
there was more light
Thorns were out,
they were bristling
Didn't know how
much I was risking
Didn't mean to
pick a fight
Ooh oh
Ooh oh oh
Ooh oh
Oh oh
Ooh oh
Ooh oh oh
Ooh oh
Oh oh
[Soon]
Ooh oh
Ooh oh oh
[Soon]
Ooh oh
Ooh oh oh
Ooh oh
Oh oh
[Too much too soon]
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Did you know that you can remove censorship board-wide, use our advanced search functions, be notified when new content is posted, join our memberships, set episodes to show in any order you want & more if you are logged into your account?
Register or sign in here: ucp.php?mode=register