01x36 - Unfit Wedding Ring

[bunniefuu]

You went and looked at the rings.

I did.

We were about to get married.

Look happier.

[laughter]

Oh, he's happy.

He should tell his face.

[narrator] This is Judy Justice.

[theme music plays]

[narrator] Jessica Lager is suing
property inspector Keith Schlesser

for the cost of two wedding rings
that could not be resized.

[Kevin] Court, come to order. All rise.

[Judy] Be seated, please.

Hello, Judge. Case number 1022,
Lager vs. Schlesser.

Thank you.

Case is simple. Mrs. Lager,
you want your money back

and you want to return
two rings that you bought

from the defendant.

Defendant says, "No backsies."

You're right, Your Honor.

Well, I know that that's your position
so I'm gonna ask you,

Mr. Schlesser, a couple of questions.

What I get from your answer is

that several years ago,
a relative of yours got arrested.

Yes.

And there was bail set,
rather high bail.

-Yes.
-And you posted that bail.

-Yes, I did.
-For this relative.

[Judy] And in order to ensure
your repayment,

-this relative gave you two rings.
-[Keith] Yes.

A man's ring and a woman's ring
to hold as collateral.

And I assume that this relative
never paid you back.

Actually, he did pay me partial.

Oh. How much partial?

-Three thousand.
-[Judy] And how much was the bail?

-Eight thousand.
-Okay, so you were down five?

I was down five.

[Judy] And in order to recoup
some of that money,

I assume that you made an arrangement
with this relative

-that you could sell the rings.
-Yes.

[Judy] That's what I gather.
And so in 2020...

Let's go back a second.

In what year did you take
possession of the rings?

Approximately five years ago, Your Honor.

So you've had them in your
possession for quite a while.

-Yes.
-Where have they been in your possession?

At my house in the safe.

Sometime in 2020,
you're gonna tell me the month,

you decided to list them
on the Internet for sale.

What month in 2020?

I don't recall, Your Honor.

Well, let's try to think hard.

I could probably look in my phone
and tell you according to the marketplace.

Perfect.

Around...

October 26th of 2020.

Do you have the ad there that you placed?

-[Keith] Yes, I do.
-I'd like to see it, please.

Thanks. You can give her my phone.

And here is also...

pictures of the posting.

Oh.

So you listed them for what?
$4,500?

I listed them, Your Honor, for $5,000.

Well, this says $4,500, October 26th.

I had reduced the price,
not knowing what the value was.

[Judy] Now, just listen to me.
Let's not editorialize this.

You listed them for what price?

The original marketplace list
was for $5,000.

Okay, and just a second.
And when was that?

-Approximately two months...
-[Judy] Not... not "approximately."

I asked you a question. I said,
"What did you list them for?"

And you said,
"I'm gonna show you."

You said, "I listed them on October 26th."
October 26th, it says $4,500.

I wanna know long
they had been on marketplace.

When did you first list the rings?

I don't know the exact date,

but I would say probably
three months prior to that.

[Judy] Okay.
So maybe sometime in July?

-Approximately, yes.
-[Judy] Of 2020.

-You listed them for sale for $5,000.
-Yes.

And then in October,
you reduced the price to $4,500.

Yes.

And nobody bought them.

Right.

On what date did you
contact the defendant?

April 5th.

Of 2021.

Of 2021.

[Judy] So now they've
been on the market

July, August, September, October,

November, December, January,
February, March, April.

-Ten months!
-[Keith] Yes, Your Honor.

Without so much as a nibble.

No, I had different bites by people that...

Show me on here where you had bites.

[Keith] Um...
If I could have the phone.

It should be right on here.

Different ones that contacted me.

Odell... right there is one of 'em.

But to see all of them...

Did anybody offer you
a firm price for them...

-No, Your Honor.
-[Judy] ...prior to the plaintiff

offering you $3,000?

-No.
-[Judy] Okay. So...

[Jessica] I have a... Exc...

What?

He actually had them listed for $3,000
when I first...

[Judy] May I see it?
Do you have it?

Uh, I don't have it saying exactly $3,000,
but I do have in our messages,

uh, he did change the price
and it does say

right here that he
changed the price on it.

[Judy] May I... May I see that?

-Mm-hmm.
-[Kevin] Thank you.

Did you reduce the price to $3,000?

-I did, Your Honor.
-Okay.

In what month did you
reduce the price to $3,000?

Right before I had them appraised.

Just-Just-Just... Listen,
you're editorializing to me, sir.

-I had the...
-[Judy] I just want the month

and day that you
reduced the price to $3,000.

Right before she contacted me,
probably a week prior to that.

-[Judy] You contacted him on April 5th?
-April 5th.

[Judy] When you contacted him,
you had seen pictures of the rings online?

[Jessica] I did.

Were you getting married
or were you married?

We were about to get married.

[Judy] So this was
a big purchase for you.

[Jessica] It was
a big purchase for me.

Is it your first marriage?

It is. We've been together for 20 years.

-Oh, well!
-[Jessica] Yeah.

That's nice. Take a deep breath.
[chuckles]

[chuckles] So... Yup.

Look happier.

[laughter]

Oh, he's happy.

-Oh, is he? Is he happy?
-[Jessica] Oh, he's happy.

-[Adam] Yeah.
-Is he happy?

He should tell his face.

[laughter]

Anyway, you reduced the price to $3,000.

The plaintiff called you.
She said, "I love the rings.

I want to come out and see them."

Then you took the rings
to have them appraised.

Now, let me understand this, sir.

This is what you want
this face to believe.

That you've had these rings in your
possession for five years.

You took them as collateral for a loan.

They had been sitting in your safe,
according to you.

You put them on marketplace to sell.

For ten months, they didn't sell.

All of a sudden,
you had an "aha" moment

after you got somebody who said,

"You know, list them for $3,000,
I will pay $3,000,

I just want to come out
and see 'em," and then

you decided to take them
and have them appraised.

That's what...
That's what you want this face to buy.

-Yes, Your Honor.
-Okay. All right. Well...

Good for you.

[dramatic music]

In my contract, I wasn't gonna give them
the originals until the balance was paid.

Just a second. Are you talking to yourself
or are you talking to me?

I'm talking to you, Your Honor.

Well, I don't wanna hear you
until you show me the appraisal.

[theme music plays]

[narrator] Jessica Lager
is accusing Keith Schlesser

of selling her two wedding rings,

falsely claiming they could be resized.

Now, you took it to an appraiser,
a jeweler.

Yes, Your Honor.

[Judy] And without having
any conversation with me,

do you have the appraisal
from the jeweler?

Yes, I do, Your Honor.

[Judy] I'd love to take a look at it.

Thank you.

What is this that you're giving me?

What is this?

That is the appraisal.

What it cost me to have them appraised.

I don't care what it co...

I wanna see the appraisal
that you had done.

-What?
-[Judy] I wanna see the appraisal.

-Not the...
-Okay, I am looking for the copies of it

that I have, Your Honor.

In my contract, I wasn't gonna give 'em
the originals until

the balance was paid.

Just a second.

Are you talking...
Are you talking to yourself

or are you talking to me?

I'm talking to you, Your Honor.

Well, I don't wanna hear you
until you show me the appraisal.

-[Keith] Okay.
-[chuckles]

Ah, here they are.

[Judy] Okay, so now you take them
and you have them appraised

by this jeweler. They're not
GIA certifications of the diamonds.

They're a jeweler's evaluation
of what these little diamonds were.

And then you call her back and tell her
that the price has changed

to $5,000?

I messaged her back and told her,
"Before you drive all the way down here,

I have had them appraised
and they appraised it a lot higher

than I anticipated.

That I couldn't sell them for $3,000,
that I wanted $5,000 for them.

And she said all she had was $3,000.

So at that point, I said that
I would consider working with them.

If they were that adamant about the rings,

I would let 'em make payments to me.

Can you explain to me why in the five
years that you had these two rings

you haven't had them appraised?

Before you put them on marketplace?

Before you tried to sell them for a year?

I mean, you don't appear
to be a stupid man.

-I'm not, Your Honor.
-If you have... If you have a product,

and you are unsure of its value,
and it's not your specialty,

and you want to put it up for sale,

the idea is if, whether it be a car,

or a piece of jewelry,

or a painting,

you have it appraised!

You go and you have it appraised, say,
"Well, this is what the appraisal is.

And this is what I'm gonna ask for

or this is what
I'm prepared to sell it for."

That's what a thinking person does,

and you don't look like
a non-thinking person.

You took collateral for this loan
that you made to your relative.

You got him to repay part of it.

You were selling the collateral
to cover the other part of it.

That all sounds like a thinking person.

I have trouble thinking that a thinking
person puts something on

the marketplace without
having it appraised first,

makes a deal, pretty much on the phone,

for the asking price,
and then takes it to have it appraised.

That just doesn't make sense to me.

And if it doesn't make sense to me,

it usually isn't the way it happens.

Okay, now.
But this isn't what the case is about.

They came on the sixth?

The ninth is when we actually
went and met him.

[Judy] Okay.

So on April 9th,
you went and looked at the rings.

-I did.
-Now, Kevin,

could I please have the rings?

I want to take a look at them.

Thank you.

[Judy] Well, this ladies' ring
is very lovely.

Oh, isn't it? I love it.

[Judy] Yeah. It's really very lovely.

If only it could fit.

[Judy] When you went to his house
to try on these rings,

-they were too small for the two of you.
-Very small. Yes.

-Your Honor?
-[Judy] And did you...?

What?

She couldn't even get that ring
over her knuckle.

-On her little finger.
-[Judy] I...I...I...

You don't have to help me.

-Okay, I'm sorry.
-[Judy] The rings are very small.

-[Jessica] Right.
-[Judy] Did you discuss that

-with the defendant?
-Of course I did.

I asked him if it could be sized
and he said yes.

[Judy] Well, just a second. Mrs. Lager,
I'm gonna ask you this question.

Did he tell you what he did for a living?

N-no.

So you go in to buy
a pig in a poke from somebody

without really an appraisal,
because you are not getting these things

appraised yourself before you're
committing to $3,000,

-which I assume is a lot of money for you?
-Right.

And you're starting a life together
after 20 years...

Tell your face you're happy.

[laughter]

And clearly,
this ring isn't gonna fit you.

Correct.

Why would you ask somebody...
What kind of work do you do

or did you do?

I'm a property inspector, Your Honor.

He's a property inspector.

He knows nothing about jewelry!

Because he just had got them appraised

and I asked him if he...
if he knew that

it couldn't be a...

Why would you ask a property appraiser
if he knew whether

a ring could be sized?

Because they were his rings and...

[Judy] Say it.

-I mean, I guess I don't know.
-[Judy] If it's property that

is somewhere within his realm
of expertise,

I could understand it.

But you're asking somebody
who's selling something

that clearly didn't belong to him.

I mean, he could just say,
"I don't know."

-Or "No," or "I'm not sure."
-He could've. He could've.

-And that would've been fine.
-I mean, that's...

What would've been fine?

If he would've said,
"No," or "I don't know."

No, what would've been okay
is if you said to him,

"I will only take these on condition
that I take them to a jeweler,

and see if they could be sized
in my size."

[sighs] See, at first, I wanted
to meet at a jeweler,

and, um...
he said that would've been fine.

But then a few days after
we had made that agreement,

he just took it upon himself
to take them to get appraised

-and then...
-[Judy] No, no, no, no, no, no.

You wanted to take them to a jeweler.

I wanted to meet him at a jeweler
to...to start with.

Yes. I wanted to.

Oh. When you answered his ad,

did you have a communication with him
that you wanted to meet him,

not at his house, but at a jeweler?

Yes. To start with, yes.

-Yes. Was that by text message or phone?
-It was message.

I'd like to see it.

[Jessica] It's on that first page there.

[Judy] Well, you say it in
one of these text messages, sir.

She asks you what the sizes are.

You say, "I know the man's is an 11
only because it fits me

and the woman I'm not sure of.

Another ladies' ring is about
one and a half carats

and it's wrapped
in princess-cut diamonds.

The men's is just original-cut diamonds.

I don't know a lot about it.
I have had them at a jeweler

and got somewhat
of an appraisal from them,

but I didn't want to pay
hundreds of dollars

in insurance appraisal
if I have sold them.

I would pay that if
you're that interested in them."

And she says to you,

"We could meet at a jeweler.
You don't need to spend extra money.

I'm very interested. Are you open to
meeting this Friday at four?" "Yes."

Well, why didn't you meet at the jeweler?

[dramatic music]

I said, "Why didn't you wait
and go with them to the jeweler?"

That's what she asked you to do.

I mean, I don't care what this
piece of paper says.

It looks like a crock of baloney to me.

[theme music plays]

[narrator] Jessica Lager
claims Keith Schlesser

refuses to reimburse her
for two wedding rings

that could not be resized.

Okay. She says to you,

"We could meet at a jeweler."

Well, why didn't you meet at the jeweler?

Your Honor, I tried to take them rings
to Rogers & Holland

where they... the store that they were
bought from.

I'm asking you why
you didn't meet her at a jeweler

as she asked. You said,

"Could we meet at a jeweler?

You don't need
to spend any extra money."

Because you said you didn't want to.

"I'm very interested."

And then your response is,
"I have dropped off the wedding rings

at the jeweler's, as you
can see in the photo,

to have them appraised.
I will have them back Friday morning,

appraised for insurance purposes."

My question to you is, sir,
she asked you to meet you on Friday

at the jeweler's, which could've
answered all the questions.

Whether the rings could be sized, right?

-Yes.
-Whether they had the value

of what you say they were valued at.

And for some reason,
you chose not to do that.

For some reason,
you chose to go to the jeweler...

allegedly,

by yourself and meet them
at the house on Friday.

On the same Friday.
Could you tell me why?

[Keith] I went to have them appraised.

They wanted $200 apiece
to appraise them rings.

I wasn't about to pay that.
It wouldn't buy back their own property.

So I decided to go to my own jeweler
and have them appraised.

And I got them appraised for $125 per ring
versus $200.

Just a second.
That's not my question.

I said, "Why didn't you wait
and go with them to the jeweler?"

That's what she asked you to do.

I mean, I don't care
what this piece of paper says.

It looks like a crock of baloney to me.

So, my question to you, sir, is

why didn't you wait to go to the jeweler
with them until Friday?

Because I guess I wanted to know
what they were actually worth.

Then you should've done that in the five
years you had 'em in your possession.

But I also wrote a contract
that she signed, in an "as is."

I'd like to see it.

You're more than welcome.

Here's the contract, sir.

[sighs] A contract is
a contract is a contract...

You have proof that you have
title to these two rings?

Um, I got a letter from my stepson from...

him in prison, stating that the rings were
given to me as collateral.

Well, he can only give his ring.
He can't give his wife's ring.

It was his ring.

[Judy] No.
He could give away his wedding band.

That's your only out, Madam.

This is a contract that you signed,
do you understand that?

I know.

The problem is that
you took them to jewelers

-and you can't have them resized.
-[Jessica] Right.

-Is that the problem?
-[Keith] Your Honor?

That is the problem.

All right. "The rings were given to Mr...
as collateral for my bail money.

Thank you for your time."

-I don't care. You wrote this contract.
-Yes, I did.

Do you know that I actually...
She's stuck with this contract

unless I can find a loophole for her.

Of which I'm... [laughs]
fortunately, I can!

Because you have to be able to show me
title to the property.

There are two rings here.

There's a man's ring
and there's a woman's ring.

And your relative, and I'm
not gonna say... whoever it is

that gave you these rings,
I don't know whether they had authority

to give away the woman's ring.
I have no idea.

The woman's ring is the expensive one.

The woman's ring, allegedly,
has the solitaire diamond that's a carat.

That's a carat and has some
stones around it.

That doesn't belong to a guy.

-It was given back to him by his wife.
-Just a second. Just a...

I don't know that!

And you don't have anything
to prove that.

-I guess so...
-[Judy] You have a letter from him

saying, "I gave you the rings
as collateral,"

but there's nothing here that says that
he gives you permission to sell them.

-I guess I had no...
-[Judy] Just a second!

There's nothing here that gives you
permission to sell them.

Well, he did verbally.

-[laughs] Perfect. Perfect.
-For whatever good that is.

-Sometimes, sometimes written contracts...
-[Keith] Your Honor,

-she also said that she has a...
-[Judy] Sometimes contracts...

You wrote this contract.
Clearly, you wrote this contract.

You're the one who wrote in this contract,

"The sale and transfer of this property
is hereby made on an 'as is' condition

without any implied warranties,
with no recourse to the seller,

provided that the seller can issue
proof of title to the property

without any liens or encumbrances."

That's what I'm putting to you, sir.

She wants to give you the rings back
and she wants her money back.

And you paid him $3,000, so you
have to show me proof of title

to these rings without encumbrances.
And I don't think you can do that.

That's the only proof that I can clear,
Your Honor.

-[Judy] And... And you can't do that.
-Right.

[Judy] And they've had these rings
for a couple of months.

You've had them for five years.

So, you know, they can go back to eBay
or wherever you put them.

Judgment for the plaintiff
in the amount of $3,000.

Your counterclaim's dismissed.
We're done here.

-Thank you.
-[Kevin] Court's adjourned.

[theme music plays]

I'm so happy, because I knew
that he was just a scammer.

And I feel like he tried to scam me
from the start.

They called my jeweler.
One question they did not ask the jeweler

is whether them rings could be resized.

When I seen the rings to start with,
I was just, like, in love right away.

I wanted to have them.

She tried to put it on her little finger

and it wouldn't even go over
her first knuckle.

Because he had told me
that they could be sized.

You know, stupid is what stupid does.

I just feel like
he was trying to scam me.

Well, I would've thought
that they wouldn't have bought 'em.

But they had a contract.

Because they couldn't fit me,
I got rings that can't fit.

What's the point of that?

So, Sarah, this is a perfect example
of "let the buyer beware."

If it looks like too much of a bargain,
it's usually not a bargain.

Want to spend $3,000 for rings,

probably should buy them
at a reputable place.

You always take a risk
when you buy things online.

In this case, there was a contract.

In that contract,
that the defendant wrote,

he said he had to produce proof of title.

So I was able to do the right thing.

And bottom line is, the law is supposed
to be doing the right thing.

And at the end of the case,
the just thing is supposed to happen.

They got their money back,
he'll get his rings back,

he could try to sell them again,

but hopefully
enough people will watch this

that they'll be careful about buying
expensive items they know nothing about.

[narrator] Want justice?


[closing theme plays]