01x42 - Hollywood Collectibles Controversy

[bunniefuu]

-You were having a collectibles sale?
-Yes.

She was kinda feeling pressured and
bullied into trying to do this deal.

-He sent her to buy the collectibles.
-That's not true.

-No, absolutely not.
-What're you talking about?

That's bologna.

[narrator] This is Judy Justice.

[theme music playing]

David Bertolino is suing
his former clients,

Carrie Thompson
and Christian Honetschlaeger,

for breaching of verbal agreement
to purchase his collectible posters.

[Kevin] Court come to order! All rise!

Hello, Judge. We have case number 106,
Bertolino versus Honetschlaeger.

Thank you. Be seated, please.

Let me see if I can set the stage here
for this case,

so that I'm sure we're
all on the same page.

Mr. Bertolino,
according to your complaint,

-you're in the collectibles business.
-Yes.

[Judy] You collect various things,

my grandmother would
call them tchotchkes.

You know, you go here and
you see panda bears or ducks

or figurines or posters,

and you like them, you buy them.
You eventually sell them.

In this particular case,
you were having a collectibles sale

of things you had accumulated
over a period of time.

And were you doing this sale in your home
or in a place of business?

Uh, it was artifacts, collectibles

from my two previous businesses
that I've retired from.

So, it was an estate sale to liquidate...

-[Judy] In your home?
-Yes.

-Okay. And that's your business, right?
-It was.

Okay. 'Cause I've really always been
curious, and since this is my program,

so I can ask whatever questions
that fulfill my curiosity over the years.

Could you explain the difference between
an estate sale and a tag sale to me?

Estate sale, generally,
someone is selling off everything.

You know, their collectibles
over a long period of time.

Collectibles, furniture, artwork,
etcetera.

-Their... Everything from an estate,
-[David] Right. Right.

as opposed to a studio apartment,
or a one-bedroom apartment.

Now, very often, when you respond to that,
it's generally somebody who's passed on

and their children are doing
the estate sale. In this case,

I had a little deterioration of health,
and so my, uh...

Well, just a...
I'm not talking about in your case.

you know, sometimes,
we have nothing to do on a Sunday,

and I see "estate sale,"
and I take a detour with my husband,

and we drive down a road and I see
somebody selling old washers and dryers,

and cribs, and other such stuff,
and it says "estate sale."

And sometimes, it just says "tag sale."

So you weren't selling any of
your furniture in your home.

-No.
-[Judy] You weren't selling any of

-the artwork that hangs in your home.
-No.

You were selling things that had been
collected in your two businesses.

You brought to your living room...
was it in your living room?

It was on my driveway and...
and my front porch.

Well, that's what I usually refer to
[laughing] as a tag sale,

not an estate sale.
That's... That's a tag sale.

That's why I asked you a definition.
Clearly, we're not gonna come to terms

as to whether that's an estate
or a tag sale.

So, all the stuff that you had collected
from your two businesses

was either on your front porch
or your driveway?

-Am I correct?
-Yes, correct.

And during what days
were you selling these things?

Was it a Friday, Saturday and Sunday?

It was Saturday, April 24th.

-[Judy] One day?
-One day, ma'am.

-[Judy] One day.
-Yes.

From ten to five?

Nine to four.

Now, at some point, the Defendant...
Your last name is?

-Thompson.
-[Judy] Thompson.

Miss Thompson came in...

Did you know her
before the day of the sale?

-Yes.
-And that was on April...

-[David] 24th.
-You knew her before. From where?

She, uh, came to visit two previous times

when I had sales several years ago.

-Also in your home?
-Yes.

Well, several years ago,
you were in business?

Retired from the business,
but had the business...

the collectibles, so I was...

Well, several years ago, you...
You can only retire...

Well, that's not true,
you can only retire once. Ha.

[audience laughs]

So, you knew her before,
and you hadn't seen her in several years,

but she had come to the second sale
that you were doing at your house?

-Yes.
-[Judy] In between the first time

you saw Miss Thompson,
and the second time, on April 24th,

was there any period of time
when you saw her in between?

-No.
-Pronounce your last name.

-Honetschlaeger.
-[Judy] I got it. Mr. Honetschlaeger.

Did you know the Plaintiff?

Yeah. I've been there
a couple times before.

In fact, I think once or twice
with Carrie, as well.

Do you work together?

-Well, we have separate...
-[Judy] Don't shake your head.

We're in the same business
but we have separate companies.

Explain the separate companies.

So, she runs a collectible business,
mainly online.

I run a collectible business,
mostly in music,

and it's brick and mortar.
It's... distinctly different.

I specialize in records,
she specializes in all kinds of paper,

and furniture and lighting,
and all kinds of collectibles.

Okay. On the 24th of April of this year,
were the two of you working together?

Even though she went to this tag sale?

No, I don't think I saw her
that day, in fact.

What about the day before?

I don't remember if I saw her or not.

Was it you who suggested that she
go to this particular tag sale?

Yeah, it... Well, fi-first of all,
just to put...

I mean, this was hardly an estate sale,
this was like a glorified garage sale...

Ju-Ju... I-I just said it was a tag sale.
I got it.

So, I gave her the lead, I gave her a tip.
I go, "Go check it out.

He has some posters for sale,"
and I didn't think much of it.

I just gave her the address, frankly.

Okay. Is that exactly what happened
between the two of you?

-[Carrie] Yes. Yes.
-He didn't say to you,

go there and buy stuff for me?

Absolutely not.

[Judy] So you were
buying stuff for yourself?

For my business, yes.

Okay. I'm gonna simplify this a little,
simplify the case for myself a little bit.

Mr. Bertolino, you're suing
Miss Thompson and Mr. H...

-[whispers] I'm old.
-[chuckles]

On what theory, legal theory,
do you believe

that you have a case against
Mr. H, in any way at all?

[theme music playing]

Was one of those posters tacked
over your garage on the 23rd of April?

And then, I'm gonna go back to
the 22nd of April, and the 21st of April.

Did you have any poster
tacked over your garage?

That's either a yes or a no.

[theme music playing]

[narrator] David Bertolino
is suing his former clients,

Carrie Thompson and
Christian Honetschlaeger,

for breaching a verbal agreement
to purchase his collectible posters.

Did you ever speak to him that day?

-Yes.
-[Judy] Okay.

-And I... And I have texts.
-[Judy] Okay.

Then we will start afresh,
and we will start with both Defendants.

So Miss Thompson came in
towards the end of the day,

according to what you wrote,
and according to you,

made you an offer for the whole lot
that was left at the end of the day.

-Yes.
-[Judy] Tell me about that.

Um, I was communicating with Chris,

-and, uh...
-[Judy] With Chris?

-That's not true. [chuckles]
-Just shh! Shh-shh.

Just a second. Chris, Mr. H.?

Yes. And by text, we were
communicating, and...

Okay. Would you show
me that, please, Kevin?

Show me what Mr. Bertolino
is referencing.

-And he said that he...
-No, don't tell me what he said.

I'm looking, not at what you wrote here,
just the text.

This is...

-Are you married?
-No.

Is this you saying to him,
"Chris, I'm not sure what's happening.

Your wife came in at three-ish,
she made an offer

for $4,200 for all the posters.
We accepted, we closed the sale.

She hands me a phone, you say you will
only pay $2,500. This is not right."

"Hi Chris, you asked to be text at two."

He wanted a reminder,
so he or she would come out

to look at what I had available.
So, I called to remind him, okay,

it's getting near the end of the sale,
you asked me to call you.

Oh. Okay, do you have those texts?

-Where...
-[David] Those are the texts.

Well, you show me the last ones first?

No, that's the first one,
letting, reminding him that the sale

is gonna be coming to an end
today. He wanted me to...

I wanted to see the texts
that came before that.

-Did you sp...
-[David] They were phone calls.

I mean, I h*... I hate to,
like, simplify this but...

he called me to remind me he had a sale.
I totally forgot about it.

I said, "I'm not interested. I told
Carrie, do you wanna go down there?"

She said, "I have nothing going on."
She jumped in the car and went down there.

-[Judy] Okay. That's not your wife.
-No.

No. And then, the next thing you had is,
"Chris, I'm not sure what's happening.

Your wife came in at three-ish,
she made me an offer for $4,200

for all posters. We accepted,
we closed down the sale.

My staff brought all the inventory
to the edge.

She hands me the phone and
you say you will only pay $2,500.

This is not right. We completed
the agreed-upon price and closed.

We told customers the posters
are no longer available.

Everything was at the edge of
the driveway, per her request.

This is not fair."

The only answer I see,

"You are a bully and harassed her,
and frankly,

she said you were very creepy.
Lose my number."

-Absolutely.
-[Judy] Okay. So...

Now, the end of the sale,
Miss Thompson is there.

Right now, there is absolutely
nothing contained here

that suggests that she's acting for him.

There's nothing contain...
I'm telling you, that's not an agency.

-There's nothing...
-She had a...

-May I speak?
-[Judy] Yes.

She had a record pile of checkbooks,
she said,

-"Will you take our check?"
-That's not true.

And I said, "Of course, I've taken it
before from your business."

So, um, she said okay,
she turned to the group,

she turned to my assistant and said,
"Folks, I bought all of the posters..."

I'm... Um-um, just a second.
I'm asking you about him.

-I'm not asking you about her.
-[David] Okay.

Part of this case is... From just reading
this and certainly from reading the texts,

you are implying, in this case,
that Miss Thompson

was acting either on her own behalf

or on behalf of Mr. H.
in buying this property.

Agency, look up the definition.

-Maybe I'm getting old and cranky...
-[David] The first cra...

Don't... So, don't say anything.

The definition of agency law
deals with agent-principal relationships,

that is, a relationship where one party
has the legal authority

to act in place of another.

Okay. Thank you.
So, exactly what conduct...

conduct, can you tell me,
that implied to you,

that you relied on to suggest
that one party,

that's her, was acting on behalf of...
another party?

-Did I get that right? Right.
-Yes.

When she arrived, I asked where Chris was,
and she said, "He's not available.

I can take a look.
I can make the decision."

[Judy] She said that to you?
I don't believe that. [laughs]

The last part of that,
"Where's Chris," and he's not here.

-[David] Right.
-He's not here.

-Could be...
-She wanted me to let her know

that she was the buyer, she was buy...
As she has

two previous times with him, Your Honor.

This merchandise goes into his store.

-[Judy] Just a second.
-That's not true.

-What are you talking about?
-No, absolutely not.

Just a second. You said that
the last time, Mr. Bertolino,

that you saw her, was several years ago
when she came to the same kind of sale.

That was several years ago.
You saw her one other time.

What do you mean? What you're
describing is a course of conduct.

I wanna know, on April 24th,
what specific conduct

or words were exchanged between
you and Miss Thompson,

or you and Mr. H.,

that suggest that she
was acting on his behalf.

-That is very specific.
-That she, he... she was told by Chris

-to come...
-[Judy] Oh, that's all right.

If I tell Whitney...
Whitney, next Sunday

there is this phenomenal pop-up sale,
you know, on San Pedro Avenue,

and Whitney goes there and says, "Gee,

Judge Sheindlin told me
to come down here,

and I can use [laughs] her credit."

I haven't made her my agent because
I told her that there was a pop-up sale.

You had evidently done business
with him before.

She came down there.
What specific language

did either one of them use...
I'm gonna ask you one more time.

So far, I don't see
that he's involved at all.

She said, to the crowd that was there,
maybe 15 people,

"The sale is over, none of these posters
are available any longer."

-Which the crowd were, like, angry.
-[Judy] Great!

What does that have to do with him?

-He sent her to buy the posters.
-[Judy] No, he didn't. No, he didn't.

Were you acting on your own behalf?

-[Carrie] Yes.
-Yeah. He's not an appropriate Defendant.

If you go to my online store, you'll see

that I sell posters. He doesn't.
[chuckles]

Whatever. Because he spoke to him
and told him when the sale was,

and he told you when the sale was,
doesn't mean

that you're acting on his behalf.
Unless you have other texts for me.

Well, if you read the texts in there,

he's saying,
"I'll only give you $2,500 for it."

So if he's not interested in it,
and he had no intention,

-why would he make that offer?
-Those were your words.

Just a second. Hold on. No.

He doesn't say that, sir. You say that.

He doesn't say that.
You say, in the texts,

"She hands me the phone and
you say you'll only pay $2,500.

He doesn't say that, you say that.

"We completed the agreed upon price."
Did you agree to pay $2,500?

Absolutely not. I wasn't there.
I wasn't physically there.

I understand, but was there a time
when she gave you the phone?

She called me to get a second opinion
about what to do.

She was kinda feeling pressured and
bullied into trying to do this deal.

And so she put the phone on
and she said,

"Well, what do you think
about the price?"

And I said, "What's the price?"
And I think you said $4,200.

I said, "How many posters?"
I think she said two to 250 posters.

She does buyouts.
In other words, she buys everything.

-[Judy] I understand.
-Yeah. And I did a quick math,

I said, "You know, that sounds like $20
a poster. These are C-level posters,

these are not very collectible."

I said, "Maybe for five or ten
it'd be a good deal.

So, if you get it for $2,000 or $2,500,
maybe that's a good deal."

I was giving her advice, but not...
-[Judy] Just a second. Yeah.

But not-not buying them for me.

And one of the things
that's kind of gnawing at me,

she did not have my checkbook.
I... She... She can't sign on my checkbook.

He's making it up,
it's just a wild tactic.

-Mr. H.
-[Christian] Yes.

The case against you is dismissed.
You can sit down.

-You can stay and observe. Right here.
-Oh, thank you.

-Wonderful. [laughs]
-Sit. Sit.

-Now I'm gonna come back to you.
-All right.

You're at the tail end of the sale, it was
about three o'clock in the afternoon.

I would say it was around four.
The sale was ended already.

No. That's not even what you say
in your answer. It wasn't ended already.

That's not even... If my memory is correct,

that's not even what you say
in your answer, that the sale was over.

I think it was him that said.

-She announced that the sale was over.
-Shh! Don't...

I did not.

You put those out, all those posters out.

And your intent on
putting those posters out

were to entice people
to your collectibles sale.

-It was to photograph it for my handyman.
-Just a second.

-That's bologna.
-Honestly!

That's bologna!

[theme music playing]

[narrator] David Bertolino
claims Carrie Thompson

and Christian Honetschlaeger agreed to pay
thousands for his collectible posters,

but then refused to purchase them.

Okay. The sale wasn't over.

You say that you agreed on
a price of $4,200.

-Yes, and then... Okay.
-[Judy] Just a sec.

You said, "I agreed on a price of $4,200."

What time had you arrived there?

Probably around 3:30?

Okay. So the sale is still on,

-if you arrived there at 3:30.
-Yes.

Okay, so we're changing the story.
The sale wasn't over.

The sale was still on
when you arrived there.

-When we made the agreement...
-[Judy] No.

The sale was still on
when you arrived there.

-Okay. Yes, yes.
-[Judy] Okay.

And how many other people
would you estimate were there at 3:30?

There was probably about two shoppers

and I think three or four people
of his staff he had there.

Okay, and there did come a time
when you said to him,

"I like what I like, and I'll give you
$4,200 for everything."

Yes.

Either at that time,
or immediately around that time,

the two or three other shoppers left.

He announced to them that
the posters had been sold...

-[Judy] Just a...
-Yes.

He announced to them
that the posters had been sold.

-Yes.
-[Judy] That is a consummated deal,

-so far.
-[Carrie] Okay.

That's a consummated deal for $4,200.

Then, it appears to me,
because I read your answer,

that while things were being wrapped up,

you were out in the car,
and it was then that you called Mr. H.

So, what happened was,
is once we came to the $4,200...

Okay. So, now you had an agreed-on
price, $4,200. And then...

And then he told his staff
to start bundling up all the posters.

-I didn't touch any of the posters.
-Okay, which is

-what the staff is there for.
-[Carrie] I asked him...

And you went outside to your car.

No, I asked him how...
He had posters that were linen-backed,

huge ones, hanging above his garage.
I asked him how we can get those down.

And he told me those weren't
part of the deal.

-So, that's when...
-Just a second. Was there anything else

hanging over the garage,
other than the two posters?

There was one big one
hanging over the garage,

and then there was a few
hanging on the line of his porch.

-His front porch.
-What do you mean, on the line?

Like on the... He has, like, a front porch.
On the wood barriers,

he had 'em tacked up there.
And he told me that those weren't...

-[Judy] Shh.
-Okay.

On the 23rd of April of 2020,

was one of those posters
tacked over your garage?

On the 23rd of April. And then
I'm gonna go back to the 22nd of April,

and the 21st of April.

-I...
-Did you have any poster

tacked over your garage?
That's either a yes or a no.

I had more than that, yes.

[Judy] You had what?

I had more... I had... I preset...

I wanted to set it for the day before.

So I took a picture, just to say
wh-wh-you know, to the staff who...

-Yeah, Mr. Bertolino, Mr. Bertolino.
-[David] Yes.

Nobody has valuable posters hanging
outside their house, over the garage.

-Not overnight, ma'am.
-[Judy] Not overnight.

-Just to set it.
-[Judy] Right. So, you set the stage,

with "I'm having a sale."
Now, were any of the other posters,

those posters... By the way, Kevin, would
you take custody of those posters, please?

-Yeah.
-Thank you.

Just stay with them. Thanks.

The posters that were hanging out online.

And that was... were the reasons
that you bought.

-Some of the posters, anyway. Right?
-Mm-hm. Yes.

-[Carrie] I thought I was...
-And you agreed to pay $4,200

-for all the posters that you saw.
-[Carrie] Yep. Mm-hm. Mm-hm.

-Great. Great.
-Exactly.

And you put those out,
all those posters out,

and your intent
on putting those posters out

were to entice people
to your collectibles sale.

No, it was to photograph it
for my handyman.

Just a second. That's bologna.

-[David] Honestly!
-That's bologna!

You put those posters out
to entice people

to come to your collectibles sale.
And if I were to pull up to your house,

and see a poster hanging over your garage,

and stuff in your driveway
and stuff on your porch,

and posters strung up on your porch,
and I say, "You know what?

Everything left here,
I'll take and I'll give you $4,200."

[chuckles] And then you say,
"No, not that one, not that one,

not that one and not that one."
That's deceptive, sir.

So, you have the following choice...

I'm gonna give you a choice.

Either you can say, "Deal's over,"

and go sell all this stuff again...

You still have all the stuff,
you didn't take anything, did you?

-Nope, never paid for anything.
-[Judy] Or...

she gets everything for $4,200,
including the posters she wanted.

-Of course. Yes.
-[Judy] No, just a second!

She gets everything she wants,
including the posters.

-Yes.
-[Judy] So it's your choice.

Because what she says is, you said,

"Those posters aren't included
in the sale."

I never said that, Your Honor.

Oh, okay, very good,
then we have no issue.

Judgment for the Plaintiff
in the amount of $4,200.

Give her the posters. We're done here.
Thank you.

[Kevin] Court's adjourned. This way.

[theme music playing]

Well, I think it's the right decision.
This gal shut down my sale...

He's the one that told everyone
to go home, not me.

She announced to all of
the customers there,

along with my staff,
that the sale was over.

First of all, there was no payment made,
so there was no deal.

The merchandise was going
to her boyfriend's store,

which is where it's been for years.

The biggest mistake I made
was having Carrie go down there.

We're on eBay and
we have a five-star rating.

This guy literally does
not do estate sales.

These are glorified garage sales.

And he's a hustler.

There's never any issues,
I've been in business for 40 years.

He just kept going on and on,
"We have a deal, we have a deal."

It was just... He just had
a really creepy vibe to him.

I think the, uh, Defendant's
a liar, liar, pants on fire.

I thought it was a great decision,
I'm rewarded those.

I think that Judge Judy,
uh, is a great judge.

And I think she's here for two reasons...
One, 'cause she's very attractive,

and two, she tells the truth
and she's smart.

It's a rare day that everybody
leaves your courtroom happy. [laughs]

That's absolutely right,
can't remember the last time.

I still don't have a clear understanding

of the difference between
a tag sale and an estate sale.

But you're right, everybody left happy.

And I did think that there was
a contract, Sarah.

You know, there was an offer,
there was an acceptance.

And she now got what she wanted,
which were the other posters.

So, I don't think that
you can do a bait and switch.

So I think everybody left happy.

He certainly seemed happy enough
with his $4,200.

Anyway, good day.

[narrator] Are you a victim of a scam?



[closing theme music]