02x11 - Photoshop Fiasco or Social Media Misfortune?

[bunniefuu]

You discussed taking photographs and
you would then get a copy of the pictures.

-Yes.
-No.

She says, "Hey,
we ought to sh**t together sometime."

But the way that I... One...

Don't make things up.

I know the difference between rain
and someone peeing on my leg.

[narrator]
This is Judy Justice.

[theme music playing]

[narrator] Princess Davis
is suing photographer Tavaris Long

for breaking their photoshoot agreement.

[bailiff]
Court, come to order. All rise.

Have a seat, please.

Hello, Judge.
Case number 2013, Davis versus Long.

-Thank you.
-You're welcome.

Miss Davis, what do you do for a living?

I'm a language interpreter.

[Judy] For whom?

For hospitals or law offices.

-Is it your own business?
-Yes.

[Judy]
What languages do you speak?

Spanish and Portuguese.

[Judy] Tell me how you met Mr. Long,
who is a photographer.

I met Mr. Long as part of
a social cycling group that I'm a part of.

And so they have weekly cycling rides
and he's always there,

and I'm usually there, too.

[Judy] So according to what I read
in your complaint,

you got to chatting with Mr. Long
and sometime in October of 2021,

so not quite a year ago,
the two of you discussed him

taking photographs of you
to be used on his website,

on his business website.

That's a photography website, sir?

Yeah, but we didn't discuss, you know...

We just discussed
doing a photo sh**t together.

-[Judy] Well, that's what I said.
-Yeah, yes, ma'am.

Don't say no unless, you know...

I already live with people who say no
just to say no.

[Tavaris] Yes, ma'am.

[audience laughs]

-You discussed taking photographs of her
-[Tavaris] Yes, ma'am.

for your website, doing a photo sh**t.
And in exchange for that,

she would get a free copy
of the photographs.

-That's what you discussed?
-Yes.

-[Judy] That a fair statement?
-Yes.

Is that a fair statement?

Of some of the photos, yes.

No, I don't think that you said
"some of the photos."

-You said...
-No.

"You sit for a photo sh**t for me that
I can use the pictures on my website."

That's not what I said, no.

[Judy] Well, are you in the business
of photography?

-Yes, ma'am.
-Is that how you make your living?

Yes, ma'am.

[Judy] People paying you
to take pictures of their wedding,

communion, bar mitzvah, bat mitzvah?

-[Tavaris] Yes, ma'am. Yes, Your Honor.
-Right?

-Anything else? Birthday parties.
-[Tavaris laughs]

And in order to do that,
you have to show off your best work?

Yes.

And if you ask a model to do that,
so that you could use a model,

just as you get paid for your work,
so would the model.

Right.

[Judy]
So, what you did with her was barter.

You bartered her time
in sitting for a sh**t

for her to get something in return,
which were copies of the photographs.

That doesn't mean that she owns them.

You were free to use them on your
web page, on your business web page.

Am I outlining your case?

Yes, more or less.

[Judy] Okay, so now I will summarize
what the case is about.

According to what I've read,
the two of you looked at the photographs

and you picked out about 30
that you liked.

According to somebody,
he got you the 30 pictures,

but then you saw a picture...
Don't shake your head.

You saw a picture that you didn't have

that was posted on his website
that he hadn't given you.

Well, he hadn't given me
any of the pictures.

I was able to view some.

Were 30 photographs downloaded

so that you could see them
on your computer?

No, he sent me a Google Drive link
for 29 photos.

-[Judy] Okay.
-That I couldn't download.

-I could only view.
-[Judy] Okay.

Did you tell him
that you couldn't download them?

-Yes.
-[Judy] Did he repair that?

[Princess] No.

So now, you want to be compensated
to the tune of...

$2500 for using your pictures
on social media.

That's what you ask for in your case?

Yes, for using them
to promote his business.

That's okay. Well, you knew
he was going to...

-[Princess] Yes, I did.
-Okay.

Miss Davis, you knew that
he was going to use the photographs

to promote his business.
That was your contract.

-Mm-hmm.
-[Judy] That's not "uh-huh."

-That's a "yes."
-Yes, ma'am.

[Judy]
That was your contract.

Your complaint is

that he did not fulfill
his entire end of the bargain

by getting you copies of all the pictures.

Yes.

Okay, and you have
a nonsense counterclaim, Mr. Long,

because you want money for compensation
for a photo sh**t.

-That was never...
-No.

Well, what I want money for is,

is a nonsense counterclaim
for a nonsense suit.

-What I want money for is,
-No-no-no...

if she wants me...
'cause she actually...

"Well, I want you to take down every
photo and delete everything you have."

Well, if you want to,
if you wanna own the rights to the photos,

this is what it's gonna cost you.

You've not... Just a second. She
doesn't want all the rights to the photos.

[Tavaris]
That's what she called me saying.

[Judy] Okay.

She... but she can't modify the agreement.

-I agree.
-[Judy] If I find,

which seems absolutely logical,

and I don't know why
you just wouldn't do it,

give her the photographs
which you bargained for

so that she got copies of them

in exchange for you
using them on social media.

That seems to be perfectly simple,
Mr. Long.

Did she ever notify you that
she couldn't download the 29?

No. You know when she notified me?

So, in May of this year,
which is Women History Month,

I was daily, you know, posting photos
of women I took photos of,

and just kinda, like,
honor them for Women History Month,

so on, like, May fifth, fifth day
of Women History Month, I posted...

-Slow down, slow down.
-[Tavaris] Yes, ma'am. Sorry about that.

So, I posted three photos of her to say,

"Hey, I want to honor, you know,
a friend of mine,

it's Women History Month."
You know, just kinda just...

You know, I thought it was a nice thing.
So then, she calls me...

I was picking my daughter from school
when she emailed me.

I don't know if she emailed first...

Does this have something
really important to do with this case?

-[Tavaris] Yes.
-Well, get there, please.

I'm not interested
in picking your daughter up from school.

But you asked me when did she notify me.

So five months later,
she notified me in May.

-The photo sh**t was in November.
-So?

So, you asked me when did she notify me.
It was...

She told me this right as all of this,
actually wanted to start an argument.

-[Judy] Mr. Long, Mr. Long.
-Yes, ma'am.

-You can talk from today till tomorrow.
-[Tavaris] I know, I'm long-winded.

-What the agreement is clear...
-[Tavaris] Yes, ma'am.

She sat for you.
How long was the photo sh**t?

Look at me. How long was the photo sh**t?

Almost five hours.

How long was the photo sh**t, Mr. Long?

-[Tavaris] It was about...
-No, no.

About three hours,
about three hours.

[Judy] Okay. So anywhere
between three and five hours.

Ma'am?

[Judy]
Anywhere between three and five hours.

Well, it definitely wasn't five hours.
It was winter time, so it got dark early.

We were outside
at Cascade Nature Preserve.

I'm getting actually so bored with you.

[Tavaris]
I know, I'm sorry.

Anywhere between three and five hours.

And if you shot a hundred pictures
during that time?

Uh, no, much more. So, we did...

So how many pictures did you sh**t?

Probably three, four hundred.
It was a lot. So...

-Okay. Ju-Ju... Not "so!"
-Mm-hmm.

[Tavaris] Yeah, well,
'cause this is important.

What happened is,
is that we did a lot of motion shots.

So, which means that I put the camera
in high continuous shutter mode.

So while she's moving,
I'm capturing just...

I'm just taking photos, right.

And then we're choosing out of
which motion that looked best, you know.

-[Judy] No, just a second.
-Yes, ma'am.

[Judy] You have to send her the copies
of the photographs that you took.

That wasn't the agreement, Your Honor.

Because why would I send you
every photo?

I'm gonna have work out there
with my name on it that something...

'cause you blinked if you're movin'.
We're taking action shots...

Just a second. Do you think...
Do you think... Hey!

[Tavaris]
Yes, ma'am.

Do you think that this woman
is going to put out a photograph

anywhere that looks terrible of her?

[Tavaris]
Yeah, but see... Right.

That would be ridiculous.

[Tavaris]
We have a difference in opinion, right.

She may think this is a nice one.

As a photographer, I'm like...
And another photographer

sees it, they'll be like,
"This is kind of garbage," right.

And so, I'm never gonna
give somebody something

that I wouldn't approve of myself.

-[Judy] Oh, yes.
-Ever.

Well, what I'm telling you, Mr. Long,
is that was not your agreement.

-[Tavaris] Yes.
-Okay.

Then I'm going to... In 30 seconds,
you commiserating with each other

from this cycle group, whatever it was,
and I want you to tell me your memory

of the discussion with the plaintiff
about the photographs,

about her sitting for you
for a photo sh**t.

Then I'm going to hear hers, quickly.

What is your memory of the discussion,
initial discussion that you had

with her over her
sitting for a photo sh**t?

-Don't make things up, Mr. Long.
-Nope.

-This is factual.
-[Judy] Then, just tell me.

Then, just tell me.

Yes. So, we,
we were at a social gathering.

It was a holiday party for one of
the groups that we are part of, right?

So, we were at this bar
called Handlebar in Atlanta,

and we were talking, and I was doing
some sh**ting inside of the party, right?

And she says, "Hey,
we ought to sh**t together sometime."

-That's not true.
-Yes, it is.

[Judy] Just a second.

You're gonna have a chance.
Don't interrupt him.

Just keep going. And you understand,

I know the difference between rain
and someone peeing on my leg.

-Right.
-[Judy] I just know the difference.

-I'd never pee on you.
-Okay.

-Let's move on.
-[Tavaris] All right.

And so, we were at this, at...

So, you were at a party.
Hey, you're taking pictures.

And she said to you, "Hey."
Come on, let's go.

Yes. "Hey, we should
do a sh**t together sometime."

-[Judy] Okay.
-And I was like, "That would be cool."

-Okay.
-And then, so she reached out to me...

Um... So the Braves
won the World Series last year.

She reached out to me
a little before the Braves

won the World Series and said,
"Hey, would this day be good?"

And I was like, "Well, it's gonna be
kinda cold, this is gonna be going on."

So the day that the Braves,
the World Series Parade was,

which was November third.

Right, November third
is the day that we shot,

because after the Braves,
I went and met her...

Just a second. Do you have any idea
how disinterested I am in these facts?

-I know, I know, but it jogs my memory.
-[Judy] Okay. Mr. Long. Mr. Long.

Yes.

Before she got there,
you had an arrangement.

And if you can't tell it to me
in a cogent way,

I'm gonna ask her,
and I'm gonna believe her.

-Do you understand?
-I do.

I'm looking for your version
of the contract.

-Right.
-Do you understand?

-Yes, ma'am.
-[Judy] So, just give it to me.

I don't care who was playing baseball.

I don't care who was in the finals.
It means nothing to me.

[theme music playing]

[narrator] Princess Davis
claims photographer Tavaris Long

broke their photo sh**t agreement.

Tavaris is countersuing, saying Princess
owes him for the rights to the pictures.

Okay. You're in a bar.
You're taking some pictures.

-[Tavaris] Yes.
-You're taking some pictures.

She comes over to you. She said,
"How about a photo sh**t?"

-You say, "Fine."
-[Tavaris] Yes.

I'm looking for your version
of the contract.

Right.

-[Judy] Do you understand?
-Yes, ma'am.

So, just give it to me. I don't care
who was playing baseball.

I don't care who was in the finals.

-It means nothing to me.
-[Tavaris] Yes, ma'am.

Just tell me the contract
that you had with her.

There had to be a contract.

Well, other than us verbally,
there was no written contract.

There doesn't have to be
a written contract.

[Tavaris] So, you want
just what we verbally said. Yes.

So then, after that,
we agreed to, to meet up, right?

And then, once we finished sh**ting,
because we never discussed how many photos

were going to be sent, right,

until we actually looked
at the photos together, Your Honor.

We looked at the photos.

She said, "Oh, no,
I don't like this one, because there..."

[Judy] Just a second. You looked at
the photos on the day of the sh**t?

No. Well, she looked at some of them
on the camera,

like, but not every photo
on the camera. But...

When did you look?

[Tavaris]
Oh, I sent it to her on November sixth.

I emailed her. So,
November third is when we shot.

November sixth is when I sent her
the photos.

How many did you send her?

Twenty-nine.

Okay, but you didn't send her
all of them?

No, 'cause that wasn't the agreement.

Well, I didn't hear the agreement.
I didn't hear anything about an agreement.

Because we didn't have a specific number.

I didn't hear anything
about an agreement.

-Okay, good. Now you have to be quiet.
-Yes, ma'am.

Now tell me your version.
Make sure that I get exactly...

-the case.
-[Princess] Okay.

On October 15th, we were both at a holiday
event from one of our social groups,

and he actually came up to me,
and he was like, "You're beautiful.

I would love to sh**t you. I'm trying
to build up my photography practice."

And I was like,
"Okay, what do you wanna do?

Like a, you know, barter thing
where I get a copy of all the pictures

and you can use them to promote."

And he was like, "Yeah." He was like,
"We can talk about it this week."

Oh, so what he said to you was,
"Yeah, we can talk about it this week."

-Mm-hmm.
-[Judy] Keep going. Keep going.

Oh, and we had another phone call...

-[Judy] Keep going.
-...to solidify that I would get a...

-[Judy] No, just a... No, no, no.
-Oh, sorry.

Don't say "solidify."
Solidify is a conclusion.

[Princess] Okay.

What I want you to tell me is, after that
meeting, you had another conversation.

-[Princess] Yes.
-Did you call him, or did he call you?

-I called him.
-[Judy] Yes.

And I said, "Okay, so
I know you had talked about the sh**t.

Like, what were you interested in doing?
I know you talked about the barter."

And he was like, "Yeah,
I'm building up my practice.

I would love to sh**t you."
And I asked him.

I said, "Okay, so I'm gonna get a copy
of all the pictures, right?"

"Yeah, you'll get a copy
of all the pictures."

I asked him then, I said,
"Do you have a makeup artist?"

'Cause I've done this agreement before
with other photographers.

-She's lying.
-And this is a pretty standard agreement.

I would like you to be quiet. Hey!

-[Tavaris] Okay.
-I would like you to be quiet.

I will.

This is a pretty standard agreement
with photographers and models.

[Judy] No-no-no-no.
Listen. Listen.

-Okay, I'll go back to it. So...
-Let's...

I'm not interested in that
or the Atlanta Braves.

Yes. So basically what it was is
I would get a copy of all the pictures.

-I would also do...
-[Judy] I don't wanna hear "basically."

I want to hear what you said to him
and what he said to you.

-[Princess] Okay, I said...
-I don't want to hear anything else.

-I said...
-So now, you shot.

And I will get a copy of all the pictures,
and he said yes.

[Judy]
You keep saying it again.

I heard you the first time
that you would sit

-and you would get a copy of the pictures.
-Yes.

And he said, "Yeah, yeah, yeah,"
as I can imagine him saying to you.

-Yeah, but I didn't...
-Okay. You get an "A" for "annoying."

[mutters]

[Judy]
Which is not where you want to be here.

It's not.

Because this is really
a very, very simple situation.

-Yes.
-[Judy] Really simple.

Of the pictures that you took of her...
Be very careful 'cause she has it.

Of the pictures, the 29 pictures
that you sent to her,

did those 29 pictures contain

all of the pictures that you ever put up
on your website?

Or did you use any of the other pictures
that you took

from the photo sh**t on your website?

-Do you understand my question, Mr. Long?
-I do. I do.

Did you use any photos other than the 29?
That's either a yes or a no!

-She told me... Yes, there's one...
-Okay, just a second.

-Not "she told me."
-[Tavaris] Okay.

That's what she told me. Well...

-Mr. Long, not "she told me."
-[Tavaris] Yeah.

[Judy] When you had a conversation
with her subsequently,

and she said to you, "I saw
you put a picture up on your website,

it wasn't one of the ones you sent to me,"

a normal person, who is a photographer,
who is now having a dispute,

would go back to the photographs and
see which picture she was talking about,

and look to see the 29 pictures
that you sent,

and you would have said, "Yes, it was one
of the 29 pictures that I sent to you."

My question is a simple one.

Were any pictures that were not turned
over to her ever used on your website?

So, I-I want to be honest with you, right?

No, I want...
That's either a yes or a no.

[Tavaris]
Right, well, this is the thing.

So this whole conversation
that's she's talking about...

[Judy] No, there's no "thing..."
Mr. Long, Mr. Long...

Mr. Long, there's no "thing."
There's no "thing" to my question.

-All right.
-[Judy] There's either a yes or a no.

Were any photographs
other than the 29 you sent her

ever put up on your website?

Not to my recollection, because...

[Judy]
Okay. Just a second.

So, the answer is
not to your recollection.

-Now I'll come back to you, Miss Davis.
-[Princess] Mm-hmm.

You did receive viewing copies
of 29 photographs?

Viewing-only copies, yes.

Not copies, but access to a file, yes.

Okay. And there came a time when,
according to you,

you saw a picture on his website

that was not a picture
that you had had a viewing copy of.

-Yes.
-Do you have that?

[Princess]
Yes. Give me one second. Where's my...

And then the communication with him,

if you have any communication
about that photograph.

I do.

Is this all clear to you, Whitney,
this case, is this clear to you?

Is there anything that needs clearing up?

-[laughing] It's pretty clear.
-[Princess] Okay, that's a text message.

I'm clear.

This one was the specific one
that I didn't recognize. I had seen...

No, I don't want to know
that you recognize it.

I want a picture that
was not within the 29 photographs

that he sent to you,

and then, any communication with him
that you have via text message.

-[Princess] That's the text message.
-[Judy] That's a lovely photograph.

-[Princess] Thank you.
-That she got for free.

[Princess] Text messages...
You can also... Oh.

"Happy Monday.

Sent you all the photos you liked
back when we took them."

Okay. So what she's saying to you here
is that she feels very uncomfortable

about you having pictures of her
that she doesn't have copies of

and having them accessible to you to post.

I just want to finish this back and forth.

Yes, ma'am.

She does say if you don't want to send her
all the pictures, just delete them all

from whatever hard drive you have and take
her pictures down from any social media.

Did you do either one of those things?

That's what this back and forth
seems to talk about.

-I didn't and I was never gonna do it.
-[Judy] Okay.

-Because...
-Oh, just a second.

-I didn't ask you... the answer is no.
-Okay, no.

[Judy]
Where are the photographs now, Mr. Long?

The photographs... um, I have,
I use SanDisk so they're on the SD card.

So very easy to make another one
and just give her a copy, is that right?

No.

What, it's hard? Is that hard, Sarah,
to make a copy of that memory chip?

-What do you have to do?
-I don't think so.

I mean, I've seen people do that before.
They plug something in,

they plug something in at the other end,
and then one transfers to the other.

-Am I wrong?
-It's not hard, no.

-[Judy] What?
-It's not hard.

I think he's saying it's not impossible,
he's just not going to do it.

Nothing's impossible. But, one,
I don't send all photos to anyone.

I've never sent every photo
that I've taken of someone.

I've-I've never done it.

Then, Mr. Long, I don't care
what you've never done.

-[Tavaris] Right.
-Then shh!

-Mm-hmm.
-[Judy] Why don't you try listening?

The one that tends to benefit the most
from the contract, business-wise, is you.

You see, these photographs
are not her business.

She wanted to use these photos
for her business.

-Hey, do you see my mouth moving?
-Yes, ma'am.

Why don't you be quiet and just listen?

[theme music playing]

[narrator] Princess Davis has
accused photographer Tavaris Long

of withholding photos
from their photo sh**t.

Tavaris says he can keep the photos
he chooses because he owns them.

Okay. If there is ambiguity
in an oral contract,

two things should happen.

First of all, the one that tends to
benefit the most from the contract,

business-wise, is you.

That's not her business. You see,
these photographs are not her business.

She does...

She wanted to use these photos
for her business.

-[Judy] Hey, do you see my mouth moving?
-Yes, ma'am.

[Judy]
She works as an interpreter,

so she doesn't need for her job
as an interpreter

photographs like this.

They're nice to have,
nice to have to look through a book,

nice to have
professional photographs taken.

I know Sarah loves to do that.

[Tavaris] Right.

-But this is your business.
-It is.

And if you put up...
Why don't you be quiet and just listen?

If you put her picture up on your website,
you're the professional at photography,

so that you have to create a contract.

You, not her. This is a sport for her.
This is social. You...

She says she models
and she wanted some for her portfolio.

[Judy] She may want something,
which is why she sat for you.

She doesn't have the photograph.
So you have two choices.

Mm-hmm.

Either you give her a copy
of that drive that you have,

you still own the pictures.

Any time that she wants to use
the pictures,

you have to get credit for the pictures.

Your Honor, I'm never going to give
somebody every photo because

I don't want any work out there
that is not...

standard for my-my business
to be out there

and somebody post it.
We took action shots.

I'm not giving you shots
and you're blinking.

[Judy]
Mr. Long, it's... Mr. Long...

Mr. Long, you came here
and signed a document

before you came into court today
that you were going to be bound

by any decision that I made,
if you read the contract that you signed.

-That's what it said.
-Okay.

So, where do you come from?

-What city and state?
-Atlanta, Georgia.

[Judy] Atlanta, Georgia.
And how did you get here?

-Flew.
-Yeah? And who paid for that?

-I'm assuming you did.
-[Judy] Right.

And when you got here,
you stayed in a hotel.

Mm-hmm.

[Judy] And I assume
you want to go home to Atlanta.

-I do. How long...
-[Judy] Eventually. No, I assume.

And when you came here, sir,

you also got a fee,
an appearance fee.

-Is that correct?
-[Tavaris] Correct.

And how much did you get as an appearance
fee for trying your case before me?

I can disclose that?

What, disclose it? I'm asking you
a question. You're under oath.

I thought you weren't
supposed to talk about it.

-No, listen to me. Don't look at her.
-Okay. I'm sorry. Okay.

-Listen to me.
-All right.

How much of an appearance fee
are you being paid

-to have your case tried before me?
-$300.

-[Judy] $300.
-Yes.

[Judy]
And you'd like that $300.

-I mean, yeah.
-[Judy] What?

Yes, I would, ma'am.

So, this is what I'm telling you.

I'm holding your $300 until
she gets a copy of the hard drive

-with the photographs on it.
-Okay.

So, if you don't give it to her,
it's gonna cost you at least 300 bucks.

You're just lucky I'm not
taking your airline ticket as well.

-Yes, ma'am.
-[audience laughs]

[Judy] When a contract that is verbal
is interpreted,

because there may or may not be
a meeting of the minds

in a verbal contract,

but it seems to me that you were.

And you're the business professional,

so you're loosey-goosey.

"You sit for me and I want to use it
for my website."

"Can I get copies of the photos?

-Yes, I can get copies." "Yeah."
-[Tavaris] That's not what happened.

"Yeah, you can get copies of the photos."

Then you sent her copies of the photos,
and then you took down the site.

It's not my fault
that you didn't do anything.

So this is, this is my judgment.

She gets copies of the photo sh**t
that was conducted in November of 2021.

She gets copies of those photographs.

Any time she wants to use
any of those photographs

for anything, any publicity,
it has to have your name on it.

So send it to who the photographer was,
and you have to get credit for it.

You own the photographs.

They are your photographs,
but she gets copies of them.

Because I cannot ascertain,
other than listening to you,

I can actually hear you saying,

"Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure,
you're gonna get copies,

you're gonna get copies."

And then, you selected the ones
that you wanted to select.

I can assure you, that's not my voice
that you heard. It's not mine.

Anyway, that's my judgment.

That's my judgment. You get copies.
Your counterclaim's dismissed.

We're finished. Thank you very much.

[bailiff]
This court is adjourned.

I don't agree with it.

I'm glad that it's over.

No photographer is ever
gonna send somebody

100% of any photos that they took.

He owed me those photos.
That was our agreement.

I don't want work out there
that doesn't represent me.

I don't understand why anyone
would want to hold photos

from somebody that was doing them a favor.

It just changed who I do business with.

I mean, it's just like the judge said,

why would I put a bad photo of myself
in public?

What they may believe is good
may not be what I believe is good.

It makes no sense.
He's just a total liar.

I thought I was doing something
for a friend and for free.

We weren't really friends. We were, like,
social. Like, he's inflating that.

Now it don't matter if it's free or not,
I do put it in writing.

Just go to a different photographer.
Don't even waste your time.

I think we have a difference of opinion
on that one.

[Judy] Okay.

My roommate from college
is a professional photographer

who has done sort of
a similar arrangement with me,

and I've learned a lot from her about

the ins and outs
of the photography business.

And I know that a big problem
for photographers is they don't want

the raw, unedited, like the defendant
was explaining,

photos of out of, say,
four or five hundred out in the world

if they haven't put their
photographer edit or touch on it yet,

which I can understand,
if that's their business.

So, I... if I were ruling,
I would have maybe...

it's hard to split the baby in half
per se,

but said 50 photos out of, you know,
she only received the 29,

so maybe if he had edited up to
his standards, 50 of the photos

and delivered her downloadable versions.

But I understand that's, sort of,

rewriting history
from a loosey-goosey type...

[Judy]
Well, it's rewriting a contract. It is.

And I actually see your point.

But that would have required
a lot of work for him.

Yeah, but he is the businessman. He
should've had the contract to begin with.

[Judy]
Well, that's true.

If you're going to be making statements
to someone that you're gonna give them

all the photos, even though that's
against what I know to be...

-standard... standard practice.
-Practice. Practice.

Then, you're sort of out of luck.

Then, you're gonna have unedited photos
with your name attached to them.

And as a photographer,
you should really have more contracts

in place for situations like this.

With a clear understanding
by both parties.

Yeah, that's his business and he
really wanted to use them for business.

Mm-hmm.

So, he should have had a more stable
written contract that I could interpret.

Other than that, I was really
comfortable with an all-or-nothing.

Yeah.

If you're going to use them and
you've already used them on the website,

a reasonable view of both
their testimonies was,

he said, "Oh, yeah, you'll get copies,"

and then later,
gave her just a select few.

Yeah.

But I actually understand now
the standard in practice,

and I could've offered that
as an alternative.

Yeah.

-Okay, you should poke me next time.
-[laughs]

[narrator]
Want justice?



[theme music playing]