02x28 - g*ns Between Friends

[bunniefuu]

He claims that it was his g*n.
It was a loan. You took it.

No, I did not do that, Your Honor.

Great. And for that, you have a receipt?

-Yes.
-I'd like to see it.

I left it at home.

Do you have any statements, text messages?

-No.
-This is ridiculous.

[narrator] This is Judy Justice.

[narrator] Allen Lakosky is suing
business-owner Gene Klun

for a semiautomatic r*fle.

[bailiff]
Court, come to order. All rise.

Have a seat, please.

Hello, Judge.
Case 2055, Lakosky versus Clun.

-Thank you.
-You're welcome.

Mr. Lakosky, am I correct that
you own or manage a sh**ting range?

Yes, it's a target range, it's on property

that I own in northern Minnesota.

And it's licensed to do
commercial target sh**ting?

Not necessarily.
What I do is not is...

What is "not necessarily"?
What does that mean?

Well, for 19 years,
I have been a firearms instructor

for the permits to carry for the
sheriff's department in my county.

So I don't believe that the training
is good enough that the people are getting

to be able to carry handguns
on the street.

So I give them a free
additional training session at my range.

You also sell g*ns?

I do not sell g*ns, no.

-I...I...
-How do you make money is my question.

So I get money
by charging people for the class.

Well, that's what I'm talking...

-you charge people to use
-Yes.

and you don't need a license

to run that sort of
operation in your county?

No. You have to be
a registered NRA instructor,

-which is also, you know, like...
-[Judy] Are you?

-Yes, I am, ma'am.
-For how long?

Oh, I've been doing this for 19 years.

The case is really not very complicated,

but let me see if I can break
it down to its most basic elements.

There was a gentleman
who regularly came to your range.

Yes, ma'am.

-And his first name was...
-Jim.

How long had he been coming to your range?

[Allen] A couple of years at least.

[Judy] And then, according to
what you indicated, your complaint,

and Mr. Klun doesn't deny it, he got sick

and according to you,
the nature of his illness,

you felt prevented him
from using a heavier weapon?

-Yes, ma'am.
-And so you loaned to him,

because of his illness, a r*fle?

-Yes, ma'am.
-[Judy] What kind of r*fle did you loan?

It was a sporting r*fle.
It was very lightweight.

-What kind?
-It was called a PS 90.

-That was the model.
-PS...?

P-S, as in Sam, 90.

Would you take a look at that,
Sarah, please?

[Allen] I have a picture, uh,
Your Honor, if you'd like to see one.

-I would.
-It's very unusual.

Thank you.

-[Judy] Okay.
-Can I see it? Thank you.

And on approximately what month
and year did you loan Jim this g*n?

-Well... [sighs]
-"Well" is not an answer,

so let's think carefully,
because we know...

Probably a month,

approximately before he died,
which was...

-Well, I don't know when that was.
-September.

September 8th I believe,
he passed away in 2021.

How did you find out that he passed away?

I believe Mary here, who's
here because of the fact

that she care-gave for him while he was
going through cancer treatments.

She was his reason for staying alive,
and she also did witness,

uh, some things
that happened in this case.

Okay. I'll get to you in a second.

So he passed away on November 8.

-He died on September 9th.
-[Judy] Ninth.

-Yeah.
-[Judy] Okay.

And...and... Okay.

Prior to his passing away,

Jim and Mr. Klun had some business deal,

and Mr. Klun believed that
Jim owed him money.

-So far, right?
-Correct.

And after Jim died,
Mr. Klun went to Jim's home

and took several things from
the home to satisfy that debt.

No, I did not do that, Your Honor.
I never came back to the house.

I never took anything.

Everything I received,
I received prior to his death.

Okay. Tell me when
you received the g*n

that belonged to Mr. Lakosky.

-Looks like 5-20-21.
-[Judy] Can I see what you have

that indicates that you received
the g*n in May?

Because you gave it to him

about a month before he died?

-Approximately a month.
-Well...

It could have been a little longer.

It had to be longer.

-Okay.
-[Gene] I picked it up the fifth month.

-In May.
-Yes.

[Judy] Okay, and you couldn't
have given it to him in August?

Yeah, right.

-[Judy] It had to be before then.
-Okay.

And tell me the circumstances...
because that's what this case is about.

Mr. Lakosky claims that it was his g*n.

It was a loan,
you had no right because you took it.

You got it.
Evidently, you tell me from Jim,

and then subsequently sold it.

-Yes.
-[Judy] Yes. Okay.

So I want you to tell
me the circumstances surrounding

your getting possession
of this g*n in May of 2021.

Jim was in need of money,
so I loaned him money,

and in trade for the money
as collateral, he said he would...

[Judy] Okay. I don't want to
let you tell me this

-because Jim's not here,
-Right.

so I'm going to have to get
more specifics

from people who are his caregivers

to buttress
what you're saying to me,

He needed some money.

-How did you know him?
-Best friends from high school.

-And you remained friends?
-Yes.

How did you find
out that Jim needed money?

Jim called me up,
and he was getting scammed,

but he wanted the money,
and he told me...

[Judy]
He was getting scammed by whom?

[Gene]
I don't know who it was.

But anyway, I would give him $2,500,

he would go to the post office
and mail it somewhere.

But every time he did that,

I would receive collateral
of motorcycles or g*ns.

[Judy] Just a second.
I want you to run this by me.

Jim called you and said,
"I'm being scammed"?

No, no, I think he's being scammed.

-[Judy] I don't care what you think.
-Okay. Okay.

What you think is unimportant to me.

I want you to tell me
the circumstances surrounding

the money that you gave to him.

He called you and said...?

He needed to borrow money.

I borrowed him the money.

[Judy]
No, no, "I need to borrow money."

Had you ever loaned him money before?

-[Gene] Yes.
-Often?

No. In the last year of his life,

I did probably a half a dozen times.

Just in the last year.

So when he called you and said,
"I need to borrow some money,"

the reaction, even from a best friend,

would be, "Of course,
if you need money, tell me why."

Right? That's a natural question.

And so that's what
you asked him, "Tell me why."

And I asked him that question,
and he said he was going to

be receiving a million or $2 million
in the next few months.

[Judy] Okay,

So you brought Mr. Lakosky's
g*n back to Jim while he was alive?

No, I sold the g*n.

[Judy] Keep going.

So you so... [stammers]

-This was to...
-[Judy] Just... Tell the truth.

You don't have to
have a good memory.

[narrator] Allen Lakosky claims
business owner Gene Klun

owes for a semiautomatic r*fle.

So did you ask him how?

I asked him how,
and he said he had it all planned

with this guy he was sending the money to.

[Judy] That's all he told you about it,
or did he go into specifics?

[stammers] It had to sound
interesting to you, Mr. Klun,

because if my best friend
called me and said,

"I need to borrow some money,"

and I said, "Tell me why."

And she said, "Because I'm going
to come into a million dollars shortly,

but I need to borrow money
to get it to this guy

before I get the million dollars."

I would say, "Explain that to me."

-And I did. And he said...
-[Judy] And he said?

He said that he would be receiving money
in the next month or two months.

[Judy]
Mr. Klun, then you would say,

-"How does that... and can I get in on it?"
-[laughter]

You know, if I'm sending you $2,500,

which is what you said you gave him,

I would say, "Oh, gee, $2,500,
that's a reasonable investment,

and I'm going to get a return on
my money of a million dollars shortly?"

I would say,
"Is there any piece of that for me?"

I didn't question him.
He just wanted the money.

And he said in return for the money,

he would give me
the motorcycles and g*ns as collateral.

Okay, may I please see the
written agreement that you had?

-Verbal.
-[audience murmurs]

[Judy]
So other than you and Jim,

nobody knew about this agreement?

Not that I'm aware of.

Now, when was
the first time you gave him money?

Looks like, uh, May.

-[Judy] May?
-Of two-thousand...

[Judy and Gene] Twenty-one.

Okay. When was
the last time you gave him money?



Between May of 2021
and the beginning of July,

how many times did you give him money?

Four times.

And you have that
documented with bank records, et cetera?

-Right here, Your Honor.
-Okay, great.

And tell me how
much in total you gave him.

$7,500.

Kevin, would you bring me the documents

that Mr. Klun is looking at, please?

So in total, you gave him $7,500,

and in return, according to you,

you took possession
of how many motorcycles?

-Three motorcycles.
-And they belong to Jim?

And he signed over
the titles and everything to me.

Well, they were collateral.

Right, but he signed over everything

and gave me the titles for everything.

[Judy]
Can I see the titles to the motorcycles?

[Gene] They're sold, ma'am.

-[Judy] Interesting.
-As well as the r*fles that I got also.

-[Judy] I'm just asking you,
-Yeah.

do you have the sales receipts
from the three motorcycles?

There were three?
Did you say three?

Yeah.

Do you have the sales receipts

from the three motorcycles
that you say you sold?

No, but I was paid
$5,000 in cash for the three motor...

How am I supposed to know that, sir?

You sold three motorcycles.

-Okay. Okay.
-[Judy] How am I supposed to know?

I mean, all of this
is coming out of nowhere...

actually, with no proof whatsoever.

Unless you're prepared to give
me some flesh on this bone of a case.

Could you stand up?
Your first name is Mary?

-Yes, it is.
-[Judy] What's your last name?

Wellman.

Were you Jim's caregiver?

Yes. I lived in, uh,
in the upstairs of his house.

Were you a tenant?

We were friends since the late nineties,

when I first moved to the area.

So, regular caregiver of
his or were you just as needed?

He had developed cancer
in the late nineties. And...

I stayed then... I lived with him

in the first two years
because of the fifty-fifty survival rate

and the constant trips
to the Mayo Clinic from where we lived

were an entire day trip.

And then after about three years,

when he was kind of back on
his feet again, I moved out.

But we remained friends
and we rode motorcycles together

and we did lots together and...

-So you lived in the house?
-[Mary] Yeah, and I moved back in...

In... Okay.

Okay. Were you living in the house

when he bought these three motorcycles?

Two of them I was. Um...

A...a dual sport that
he had changed or upgraded

to ride a little bit more rough terrain,
possibly into Canada.

[Judy]
Okay. Just... [stammers]

Yeah, that's why I recall that one.

That much flesh on the bones
I don't need.

-Okay, I'm sorry.
-Did he buy them new or used?

-He had bought them used.
-[Judy] In approximately what year?

Well, it would have been
during the cancer

and so it... approximately 2000...

-Okay.
-to 2003.

Do you know anything
else about his dealings of Mr. Clum?

I do know the motorcycles
were in the garage when Jim died.

-No, they weren't.
-[Judy exclaims] Don't.

-Okay.
-Don't speak.

How do you know that?

[Mary] Well, I had... on and off
go out there for things,

but to... then, Jim's nephew had come

and removed one of the bikes

right after Jim had passed away.

[Judy]
So the nephew came and removed one.

-[Mary] Mm-hmm.
-But this was after he passed?

-Yes.
-[Judy] What's the nephew's first name?

Anthony.

Do you know Anthony, Mr. Klun?

-Yes, I do.
-[Judy] Okay.

Did you get
the motorcycle from Anthony?

[Gene]
No, I got the motorcycles from Jim,

the motorcycles that were left

-after Jim passed away.
-[Judy] Just a second.

-Okay. Now you can sit down.
-M'kay.

[Judy] All right, Mr. Klun.
Do you have any statements,

text messages or anything else

indicating that Jim indicated to you

that he could give you,
as collateral, this r*fle?

Other than the fact that
he had it in his possession.

I got more than one r*fle.

I have checks that were written
out to Jim, and that's what we did.

But that doesn't answer
my question, Mr. Klun.

I don't care how many r*fles he had.

He only had one
that he gave to Jim

because it was lighter
and easier to sh**t.

And as his illness progressed,
if I'm getting this right,

it was hard for
him to pick up his own r*fle.

Now, he may have had more.
Probably did have more.

Because you took more than one, right?

-Correct.
-[Judy] Okay.

How many r*fles did you take?

I took three r*fles, five pistols...

-I had to bring three of the r*fles back...
-Where?

[Gene]
To Jim, to get replacements.

The g*ns that were from Mr. Lakosky...

-[Judy] Only one.
-Three of 'em.

No, he said he only gave him one.

-Oh, no. But there was three of them.
-[scoffs]

[Judy]
So you brought Mr. Lakosky's g*n

back to Jim while he was alive?

No, I sold the g*n.

Keep going. You sold...

-[Gene stammers]
-Just...

Tell the truth.
You don't have to have a good memory.

If heaven forbid,
something happened to me

and my dentist thought that
I owed him $25,000,

he couldn't come into my house and say,

"Gee, this Ming vase is just
going to cover my dental bill."

You can't do that.
And that's what you did.

[narrator] Allen Lakosky is
accusing business owner Gene Klun

of selling his semiautomatic r*fle

without permission.

Keep going. So you sold it. You didn't
take it back to him to get a replacement?

-No. You misu...
-[Judy] To Jim.

You misunderstood.
The g*n that Mr. Lakosky had,

I kept that one.

The one that belongs to Mr. Lakosky,
you sold it?

-Correct, because...
-[Judy] So just a second.

Sold it to whom?

The g*n dealer in Virginia, Minnesota.

Great. And for that, you have a receipt?

-[Gene] Yes.
-I'd like to see it.

-I left it at home.
-[Judy sighs]

-Your Honor, I...
-[Judy] Oh, Mr. Klun.

-Mr. Klun...
-Oh, he has it right there.

Look, Mr. Klun.
He doesn't have to prove...

anything to me.

I believe that you
resorted to self-help to claim a debt.

If...if it's true,
and you did in fact, give him money,

I actually don't believe that a
guy like you would give him all this money

without trying to find out what
the scam was, or at least tell him,

"Jim, it sounds to me
like you're being scammed.

Somebody in Transylvania
sent you an email that said

a long distant relative of yours
died and left you a million dollars.

I need $2,500 in order to
clear the paperwork

to send you a million dollars.

And I will keep a little piece
for myself for finding you."

[scoffs] You know how many
of those everybody gets?

I don't know
why people still believe that,

but you evidently
believed that story four times.

And not once did you say your friend,

who was dying of cancer,

"Jim, this is ridiculous.

What you're doing is just
throwing good money after bad."

I don't understand why
you didn't say that to him.

Or if you did,
you would not have said to him

unless you had something to gain,
which clearly you did.

You sold the motorcycles.

You don't have any proof
of what you sold them for.

You expect me to take your
word for the fact that you sold them

for $5,000 in cash without proof.

He owed you, if I were to believe you

and these checks, $7,500.

You sold the motorcycles, you sold g*ns.

But unfortunately,
one of the things that you sold

belonged to the plaintiff.

And when somebody dies,
there is an estate.

There's a judge
who decides what property there is.

You know, if heaven forbid,
something happened to me,

and my dentist
thought that I owed him $25,000,

he couldn't come into my house and say,
"Gee, I like this Ming vase.

This Ming vase is just
going to cover my dental bill."

You can't do that.
And that's what you did.

You sold property.

You may have had a claim
against his estate,

if he in fact owed you money,
and if the state went to probate,

I don't know, did he own a house?

-Yes.
-[Judy] Yes.

Did he have children?

No, he left the house to me.

[Judy]
Okay, so he had an estate.

Clearly, there's money in
the estate because he left a house

that has some value to someone else.

So you cannot,
Mr. Clun, resort to self-help.

And Mr. Lakosky is going to
show me the value of the g*n that his...

Yes. May I expound just a bit on this g*n?

I don't care about the g*n.

-[Allen] The manufacturer...
-I don't care about the g*n.

-I don't care if it's a crown in my mouth.
-[Allen] Okay.

-[crowd chuckling]
-[Judy] What's the value of the g*n?

The value of the g*n at
the time that this man took from...

-[Judy] Oh, no, just...
-of it...

Just give me an answer.

It was $3,000. It's gained in value.

Okay, well, who cares if
it's gained in value, sir?

I'd like you to show me where
the g*n is valued at $3,000.

Did you look it up?

I did. I have it.
It's listed... from the same photo,

I found the website... listed for $2,500.

Okay. My law clerk found an ad online.

Now you're going to show me
what you want to show me

that the value is $3,000.
Let me see it, please.

May I say something else about this guy?

Not... [stammers]
Not until I look at this.

I don't know what this is.
"Immediate checkout, credit card..."

-What is this?
-[Allen] Look at the very top, please.

I see what this is.
I want to see what you paid for.

This is something that's on sale.
"Starting bid."

-It's just a typical price
-[Judy] 28.

of what they sell for on Gunbroker.

-Okay. $2,500?
-Yes.

[Judy] Okay.

Judgement for the plaintiff
in the amount of $2,500.

We're finished. Thank you.

[bailiff]
This court is adjourned.

I'm pleased at the outcome
because the information needed

to be exposed that there
was something terribly wrong.

Somebody waits for ten months
and finds out his g*n is missing.

Too many different people, and no one
had the same answer from him at any time.

-Something is wrong.
-I don't think he had a choice.

It was the only
way he's going to win his case,

is because everything
is based on mistruth.

I could not get
my mind around the defendant.

To have a friend since high school
that you're best friends with,

you remained good friends with...

If one of my best friends came to me

and told me,
"Hi, I just need to borrow $2,500,

I'm going to be a millionaire
two months from now."

-[laughs]
-I'd say, "Are you crazy?"

There's so many of these
scams going around.

I know I've seen your phone
sometimes gets tripped up

-with the scammers...
-Oh, absolutely.

and in the middle
of the night ringing off the hook.

It's unfortunate that people
fall for these scams

and really send their hard earned money,

sometimes that they don't have,

to these scam artists,
and they're never going to see it again.

And I think that people
have to be really vigilant.

I know there's been
warnings and things like that that

I've seen more publicized
recently about scams

and just how detailed
and intricate they can seem,

but it's really just...

I get them all the time.

-As you said,
-Yeah.

I have to go like this and then delete.

[chuckling] Delete. Delete.

"Anton, please answer immediately.

Your $3,000 refund is
sitting here waiting for you."

-Non-existent.
-[Judy] No.

Sometimes they leave out Anton,
"Your $3,000 refund is here."

Yeah. Gotta be smart.

And you know, Sarah,
a couple of years ago,

I don't know whether you remember,

but I just thought about it.

People were calling me
and saying to me,

"Judy, I didn't know that you
went into the cosmetics business."

-Oh, yes, I do remember.
-[Judy] Do you remember?

And the people who crafted
the advertisement,

you know, with all kinds of real logos

-on the top of it...
-Reviews and...

-Reviews and I tried this stuff.
-Mm-hmm.

And I remember being
at the gym working out,

and a woman came over to me and said,

you know, "I bought your cosmetics,
and they were really terrible.

And they keep sending them to me

-every month..."
-And probably charging her credit card.

And charging her credit card.

And I tried every vehicle
in the government

-Mm-hmm.
-To try to get somebody to...

-Shut it down.
-track it down.

And the answer was
they're so smart,

that they use internationally...

Y-you don't know where they could be.

They could be in Peru,
they could be in Chile,

they could be in Brazil,
they could be in Canada.

And I know that there are
many other celebrities

-who were caught with the same
-Yeah.

scam net, but this guy said,
"My friend Jim

-was probably getting scammed."
-Was getting scammed.

And why would you provide
him the money to get scammed?

Absolutely right.
Didn't believe me. You're right.

[narrator] Want justice?