02x90 - Grand Theft Child

[bunniefuu]

When you brought your daughter
to your mother's house...

My mom refused to give me
my daughter back.

And so, what did you do?

My mother instinct kicked in

and I went in, like, fight or flight.

And, um...

She was not a part of my daughter's life.

I did not speak to my mother. Nothing.

[narrator]
This is Judy Justice.

[opening theme plays]

Kimberly Gutierrez is suing
her mother, Rhonda George,

for false allegations,

debit card charges,
and personal belongings.

[bailiff]
Court come to order. All rise.

Have a seat, please.

Case 2131. Gutierrez versus George.

- Thank you.
- You're welcome.

- Ms. Gutierrez, this is your mother?
- Yes, ma'am.

- And who is this?
- [Kimberly] My grandmother.

- [Judy] And that's your daughter?
- Yes.

[Judy]
I'm reading the complaint and the answer,

and this is what your complaint is about.

You claim that your mother
had you falsely arrested,

as a result of which
you spent four months in jail.

While you were in jail,

it is your claim that your mother
used a debit card of yours,

I think $3,000 worth,

and you've had some belongings
at her house that you want.

I gather that you've had
some problems in your own life.

- You have at least three children.
- Yes.

[Judy] Was the state ever involved
in placing the children in foster care?

- No.
- [Judy] And what about your daughter?

My daughter, yes.

- And how old is your daughter?
- She's 19 months.

[Judy] At what point did the state
become involved with your daughter?

[Kimberly] In May of this year,
May 18th of this year,

when there were
false allegations made against...

When my mom refused
to give me my daughter back.

[Judy] In May, when...

You brought your daughter
to your mother's house when?

I called my brother on May 17th of 2022,
and I asked him to babysit my daughter.

[Judy] Your brother?

And does your brother
live with your mother?

Yes. He was staying with her at that time.

So on the 17th, you asked your brother,
who was staying with your mother,

if he would babysit for your daughter.

Where were you going?

I was needing to go to Fresno,

and I had just received
my income tax check,

so I needed to go to Fresno,
and I was on foot,

because my car was
impounded the day prior.

- [Judy] Were you going alone?
- [Kimberly] To Fresno, yes.

So, you brought your daughter

on the 17th of May to your mother's house,

and your brother was
supposed to watch him,

according to you,
while you went to Fresno.

[Kimberly]
Yeah, he met me down the street actually

because there's a restraining order,

so I didn't actually go to the resident.

- [Judy] Who has a restraining order?
- My mother has a restraining order on me.

Is the restraining order
that she has against you

a final order or a temporary order?

It's good for three years.

- That's all I know.
- [Judy] That's a final order.

Was that a final order
of protection after a trial,

or did you consent to it?

I was not notified of the court date.

I... No, I didn't consent to anything.

- [Judy] Okay. So, it was a default.
- [Kimberly] I don't know what that means.

It means you didn't show up,

and they entered a final order
of protection in favor of your mother,

so you're not permitted to go to her home.

Right.

Since that's not really
the subject of this,

I don't have to get into it.

In any event, you went on the 17th,

you dropped your child off
at your mother's house,

your brother was there,
and then what happened?

I finally got to Fresno. I got a ride.

I had got to the check-cashing place.
It literally took me...

Don't tell me.
I'm not interested in that.



You were supposed
to pick the child up when?

That evening.

- On the 17th?
- Yes.

[Judy] And did you?

I showed up about...
it was a little before ten.

I showed up, I called my brother.
I said, "I'm down the street."

He was like, "Yeah, I'll be right there."

Ten o'clock at night?

It was almost...
Ma'am, I was on foot.

- And...
- [Judy] Just a second.

- I asked you ten o'clock at night?
- It was right before ten, yes.

Okay.

[Kimberly]
When I got there, I called him,

it had been about 15 minutes had gone by.

And I called him back,
and I said, "Where are you at?"

And he said,
"Mom won't let me leave with the baby."

And I said, "What do you mean?"

And he said,
"Mom won't let me leave with the baby."

My mother instinct kicked in
and I went in, like, fight-or-flight.

And I walked down to my mom's house,

and I knocked on the door
and was asking for my daughter.

- I finally came to my s...
- Okay.

So, when your brother said that to you,

instead of going to the police,
you violated the order of protection?

I ended up leaving
and calling the sheriff.

[Judy]
Okay, but you didn't, you went to...

Of course, I was going for my daughter.

- Yes, ma'am.
- [Judy] Okay.

And what happened
at 10 o'clock at night or 10:30?

[Kimberly] Uh, yes.

I finally realized that about five minutes
of being at the house,

I was like, "Okay, you need to leave."

So, I left because she wouldn't open
the door to give my daughter.

I left. I called the sheriff.

And so, I told them the situation.

So, they had walked down to my mother's

and let her know that what
she was doing was basically...

[Judy]
No, not what she was doing.

The police came...

[Kimberly]
And told her that they would arrest her.

And told her that if she did not...

that she needed
to get my daughter back.

But because it was late,
the baby was already asleep.

And so, the cops that came down
backed down to me and they said,

"Look, we don't," because they knew me...

[Judy] Whatever.

I'm allowing you to give me
a certain amount of hearsay

so that I could make
this story make sense.

- Oh, okay.
- [Judy] Do you understand?

But don't tell me because they knew you,

- what they thought.
- Yes, ma'am.

You were told to come back in the morning.

Yeah. The agreement was that, uh,

between my mom and the sheriff was
I could pick up Malia in the morning.

The sheriff told me to call

before six o'clock in the morning,
before he got off his shift

and that he would come back out
and do another standby.

The next morning came
between me and my grandma.

I had us call my mom.

[Judy] Just a second.

What does that mean,
between you and your grandma?

Your agreement was
you're supposed to call the sheriff.

- The sheriff...
- I called my grandma.

No, not the grandma.

The agreement was you
weren't supposed to call your grandma.

- You were supposed to call the sheriff.
- I needed a ride.

I needed a ride, so I called my grandma
to have her come pick me up.

Just a sec. Where were you?

I was staying at a friend's house.

- I didn't live in Selma.
- [Judy] Wait just a second.

Just a second.

You were staying
at what friend's house?

The sheriff came,

got behind us
and tried to, like, pin us in,

and my grandma went to take off.

- So your grandmother was driving?
- [Kimberly] Yes, ma'am.

And she was trying to evade
the police to go someplace else.

[narrator] Kimberly Gutierrez claims
her mother, Rhonda George,

owes for debit card charges,

and personal belongings.

You were staying at what friend's house?

My friend Isaiah's.

Isaiah?

Yes. I stayed the night there

- waiting for my daughter...
- [Judy] Just a second.

Isaiah?

- Isaiah what?
- Bonia.

- And what is your relationship with him?
- [Kimberly] He's my best friend.

He's been my best friend
since high school.

- Where are you living now?
- I live with my grandmother right now.

- Since I released...
- [Judy] Full-time?

[Kimberly] Right now, yes.

[Judy]
What do you mean "Right now, yes"?

I'm in the process
of getting my own place.

[Judy]
Okay. So you called your grandmother.

- And then?
- Called the sheriff.

[Judy] And then?

Waited for the sheriff to respond.

And then?

The sheriff did not respond
for a few hours.

Okay. So you were waiting
for the sheriff to respond.

The sheriff did not respond until when?

It was after seven o'clock in the morning,

- and it was evenish.
- Seven?

-Yes, ma'am, 7:00 AM.
- 7:00 AM?

[Judy] Your daughter is
according to you, 19-months-old?

Nineteen-months-old.

And she had prior
had been living with you.

Yeah, she was living
with me all the time, yes.

- [Judy] She was living with you?
- Yes, ma'am.

Okay. So now, let's get back
to this arrest that you were at.

According to your papers,

your daughter was
with you up until that time.

What time did she wake up in the morning?

Uh, usually she wakes up between 7:30
and eight o'clock in the morning.

[Judy]
Okay. Well, then could you tell me

why if she wakes up
between 7:30 and 8:00,

why you would even
contemplate picking her up

before eight o'clock in the morning?

Because one of my issues
was with certain officers

that would've been responding

and the officer that responded
the night of the incident.

He told me, "If you wanted me
to be the officer to respond,

you need to call me
before I get off my shift."

Fine. But he didn't respond to you.

- Unfortunately, no.
- [Judy] And according to you,

he didn't respond to you.

- No, it was a different officer.
- So, then my question to you is...

[Kimberly] He did respond
at seven o'clock in the morning.

- And did what?
- It was a horrible mess.

Well, he did what?

They responded.

When they responded, he showed up.

The officer told me
that he did not want to be there.

He said, "If I have my way,

you'll never see your daughter again."

And I looked at him,

- and I said, "Wow..."
- What do you mean you looked at him?

Where were you when you looked at him?

I was right next to him, but I just...

[Judy]
Where? At the precinct or at your house?

No, down the street from my mom's.

[Judy]
Okay. So he responded to you

when you were down the street
at your mother's house

and he said
"I'm not getting involved in this,

and if I had my way,
you would never have your daughter."

And so what did you do?

So at that point, my grandma pulled up,

and I said,
"Your assistance is no longer needed,"

and that, uh, my grandma
could just get my daughter.

And he says,
"Well, you already called me.

The deputy did."

So I said, "Okay, whatever."

He asked me if I had somewhere
to live and I said, "Yes."

And... whatever.

And so he went down to my mom's.

When he went down to my mom's,

he was supposed to just
go down there and get my daughter.

When he was taking too long,

I could walk so...so far this way,

and I could see
straight down my mom's street.

So I did.

When I did, I see that my mom was
out there just giving him an earful.

I know this woman very well. Okay?

So I just imagined what
was being said about me.

Well, I guess the back door is screwed
and nailed shut at the house.

I don't know why.

[Judy]
"I don't know why." It's not important.

Okay. Yeah. So anyways,

my best friend went over the back fence.

[Judy]
What do you mean your best friend?

Isaiah Bonia.

Oh, so you brought Isaiah with you.

- He went...
- [Judy] Just a second.

So you have your grandmother,

and then you got Isaiah, your best friend,

also to go to your mother's house?

Yes, ma'am.

He got my daughter.

[Judy]
Isaiah brought her to where you were?

Yes.

And then what happened?

[Kimberly] I started walking back
towards Isaiah's house.

Uh, when I started walking
back towards Isaiah's house,

my grandma pulled up
in her car, and she was like,

"Are you ready to go get
your car out of the impound lot?"

And I said, "Yeah, I'm ready."

And so I got in her backseat
with my daughter.

When I got in the backseat,
I got in the middle.

Well, then she was like,

"Well, I don't know
what's going to happen.

Your mom's over there saying
a whole bunch of stuff to the deputies,

so I don't know what's gonna happen."

And so I was like,

"Well, I have got to go
get my stuff from Isaiah's."

So, I go to jump back out the car.

- As I go to jump back out the car...
- [Judy] Just a second.

- Now you have your daughter.
- [Kimberly] Because I needed my wallet.

My bag was at Isaiah's,
my purse, and everything.

It was at Isaiah's.

I was going to go back and pick it up.

Well, right when we were going to go back,

the sheriff came,

got behind us,
and tried to, like, pin us in,

and my grandma went to take off.

- So your grandmother was driving?
- [Kimberly] Yes, ma'am.

And she was trying to evade
the police to go someplace else?

Yes, ma'am.

[Judy]
And how many police cars were involved?

One.

Were there ever any more
than one police car?

Once we got to the police department,
of course, there's a police department.

No, I'm talking
about the number of police cars.

- So there's a police car now.
- Oh, that got behind us? No.

It was just one.

- [Judy] It was just one?
- Yes, ma'am.

[Judy]
And you were accelerating to get there?

No.

- Was the police car siren on?
- [Kimberly] No.

Well, how did you know
that he was trying to pull you over?

Because he tried to hit her car.

[Judy]
Oh, that would give you a clue.

So you're telling me he tried
to hit your grandmother's car

without notifying you
in any way to pull over?

[Kimberly] Yes, ma'am.

That's why I spent four months
in jail and I beat my case.

I went to trial and beat my case.
Everything was dismissed.

I'm not responsible
for the criminal justice system.

I'm only responsible
for what goes on here.

Yes, ma'am.

[Judy] So I assume once you
got to the police station,

both you and your grandmother
were arrested?

[Kimberly] Yes, ma'am.

- [Judy] And that was in May?
- Yes, ma'am.

[Judy]
And now we're... Uncross your arms.

- And now we're in December?
- Yes, ma'am.

- [Judy] Of the same year?
- Yes, ma'am.

- And you are out of jail?
- [Kimberly] Yes, ma'am.

You've been out of jail for about...?

Since August 25th.

[Judy]
Who does your daughter live with?

[Kimberly]
Right now, she, um, she's with the mentor.

She's my ex-husband's aunt, ma'am.

[Judy] And who placed her

- with your ex-husband's aunt?
- I did.

[Judy] Not the court?

No, I requested her.

Does the child's great-aunt
have guardianship?

No. I'm getting my daughter back, ma'am.

[Judy] But for the last three months,
she's been with this aunt?

Right. Because Child Protective Services
did get involved.

And Child Protective Services,
I've been doing everything that...

That's what I asked you.

I asked you whether
Child Protective Services were involved.

[Kimberly] They did get involved
with my daughter, yes.

It did.

That's what I assumed.

I've been drug testing. I've been doing...

[Judy] Just a second.

- Yes, ma'am.
- [Judy] That's what I assumed,

that Child Protective Services
was involved.

And so if Child Protective Services
are involved,

then they are overseeing
the child's placement with the aunt.

- You have an ongoing case?
- [Kimberly] Yes, ma'am.

Probate court?

[Kimberly] No, not probate.

- Which one? Family court?
- Family court. Yes.

When was the case opened with regard
to your daughter in the family court?

May 18th. The day I got arrested, ma'am.

And that child became involved
with the foster care system in May.

Okay.

So, your grandmother
also spent a little time in jail.

- How much?
- [Kimberly] Two weeks.

I quite frankly
don't understand your case.

While I was in jail, Your Honor,
while I was incarcerated,

my mom had all my...my debit cards, my ID.

She had went in, actually,
because of me getting arrested,

she had went to Isaiah's
and picked up all of my stuff.

[Judy]
You mean... Just a second. Just a second.

Let me understand this.

It is your claim that the reason
that you had to go to Isaiah's house

was to get your pocketbook, your wallet,
your credit card that you left there.

- But I never made it there.
- [Judy] I understand that.

And Isaiah clearly, from what you tell me,

knew of the problem because he
was part of this little conspiracy

to get your daughter out of the house

and was at the back of the house
to pick up your daughter,

who was being put over the fence.

So why would Isaiah give your mother...?

Because she went
over there with a baseball bat

and busted out his windows.

On February 4th this year, I had...

I lost my twins.

Okay?

And that was the first time
I had contacted my mother

because I was going through it,

and I messaged her and I told her,

I said, "I really need my mom right now.

If anything, I need my mom right now."

[narrator] Kimberly Gutierrez
is accusing her mother, Rhonda George,

of wrongfully using her debit card,
and keeping her belongings.

So why would Isaiah give your mother...?

Because she went
over there with a baseball bat

and busted out his windows.

And the reason why all
of my things were at my mother's

was because I hadn't lived
at my mom's for over a year.

- [Judy] But your case is about...
- Is my belongings.

You claimed that your mother went over

and got your wallet from Isaiah's,

because I asked you
what you were doing here.

I certainly am not looking
into the allegations of false arrest.

It sounds as if you did
the absolute wrong thing

in trying to regain
your daughter whose custody,

actually, you lost
at a dispositional hearing

and was determined to be a dependent child

and placed in foster care.

- That's what happened here.
- Right.

Okay. So, I'm not even addressing
your claims of false arrests.

But what you did was
actually the wrong thing.

I said, so what are you suing for?

- Now you said your...
- My belongings,

- my money.
- [Judy] Just a second.

What money?

She used my CalFresh,
which is my EBT food stamps,

and my CalWORKs, which is my cash aid

through the welfare department.

[Judy] Just a second.

So you're suing her
for taking your food stamps

And your welfare check?

- Right.
- [Judy] Just a second.

- Your food stamps and your welfare check?
- And...

This is the statement from my tax return

of all the money that was on there.

- [Judy] On where?
- On my debit card.

It had over $3,000 on it.

And I marked what was used
when after she had picked it up.

And then these are receipts from some
of my belongings that was at her house.

[Judy] Just a second.

You haven't lived
in your mother's house for...

[Kimberly]
I moved back to my mother's in...

Shh. Just a second.

Yes, ma'am.

[Judy]
You haven't lived in your mother's house,

according to what you said to me,

Whitney, was it a year ago?

Didn't you say that you
moved out of your mother's?

[Kimberly]
My mom allowed me to come back.

Because there was
an order of protection.

[Kimberly] She had called me.

- I was living in Fresno, ma'am.
- [Judy] Shh. Just a second.

You haven't lived in your mother's house,

you said you were living
with your grandmother.

For how long were you living
with your grandmother before May?

[Kimberly] I said I was living
with my grandmother right now.

I was living in Fresno, ma'am.

[Judy]
I want to know what property you've...

My clothing, my husband's clothing,

my...my daughter's bassinet.

I had jewelry there.
I had all my clothing.

Why would all of your clothing be there?
You were living with your grandmother.

I hadn't moved into my grandmother's
since I got out of jail.

- I was living in Fresno and my mom...
- [Judy] Shh. Just a sec.

- You're not letting me talk.
- [Judy] I... I just...

I'm not understanding your movements.

Okay. My mom kicked me out in 2021. Okay?

My daughter was just a few weeks old.

My mom kicked me out due to her boyfriend.

- [Judy] She kicked you out...
- [Kimberly] Yes.

- [Judy] And?
- When she kicked me out,

I went through Marjaree Mason

and Marjaree Mason
had placed me in hotels.

I was placed in hotels
for about three or four months.

Okay? And then it was
about January of 2021,

I was, at this time,
I was pregnant with twins.

They had genetic defects.

On February 4th this year,

[voice breaking] I had...

I lost my twins.

Okay?

And that was the first time
I had contacted my mother,

because I was going through it,

and I messaged her
and I told her, I said,

"I really need my mom right now.

If anything, I need my mom right now."

My daughter had... she had never...

She had not seen my daughter.
She was not a part of my daughter's life.

I did not speak to my mother. Nothing.

So, she made an agreement...

...that she would watch my daughter,
because I had to go to San Francisco,

because I was too far
along in my pregnancy,

and it was just a big old mess.

Do you have any
of your daughter's property?

- No.
- [Judy] Okay.

Let's talk about this card.

Did you pick up
her property from Isaiah?

- When...
- [Judy] That's either a yes or a no.

After the 18th of May.

Well, how do I answer that
when I did pick up her property,

but her cards were not in there?

Her driver's license wasn't in there,

- her food stamp card wasn't in there.
- What were you doing?

What were you doing...

...at Isaiah's?

- So, she...
- [Judy] This is when she was in jail?

Yes.

Right after she got arrested.

So I went down there.

No problem. He handed it right to me.

Look in my wallet,
make sure everything's in there.

Like I said, I don't know

if it was her driver's license
or ID was missing.

Her food stamp card,
and the other card, the bank card.

I don't know how to get proof.

But her...

...best friend, he cashed
up everybody money.

There was a bunch of people.

- Even himself...
- I have the information right here.

Even himself,

and his girlfriend,
and I don't want to get into the whole...

I don't want to get into it either.
It's far too complicated for me.

Is what you're telling me

that you never used a card that she had?

- No, I did not.
- [Judy] Because I'm not concerned

- about food stamps or welfare.
- No, I did not.

[Judy] Suing the wrong person.

You were in jail, so you
didn't need money from welfare.

What proof do you have?

- [Kimberly] I have my...
- Shh.

...my bank statements.

[Judy] What proof do you have
that your mother withdrew money?

She was the one that went
and picked up my cards.

[Judy] Oh. I don't know that.

That's not what she says.
And you have no proof.

- Isaiah's not here, correct?
- No.

I don't doubt you when you say
that somebody used your card.

I just need proof.

- [Kimberly] My mother...
- Shh.

I know that she was supposed
to get my daughter from CPS.

She was supposed to go
get a crib with my card,

and I have the... where she...

And my grandma can...

- I just want you to show me.
- [Kimberly] Yes, ma'am.

No, no, no.

That your mother...

I believe that people used your card.

- She used my card.
- [Judy] No, I don't know that.

I need you to show
me proof that your mother...

How am I supposed to show...
I have my bank statements.

Then I'll take a look
at your bank statement.

If your bank statement
told me who used your card,

then that's an easy,
she said she did not.

I just want you to show me proof
that any of these were used.

I mean, we have a lot of PlayStations,

DoorDash, Amazon Marketplace,
all of those...

And I was locked up

- throughout that whole time.
- [Judy] Shh.

I understand that.

I suggest that you concentrate
on getting yourself together.

If you want to reunite your family,

I suggest that you put
your priorities in order.

- [Kimberly] Oh, they are in order.
- Evidently, not.

I work. I have a job. I go to school.

I'm getting my own place.

But I'm going to court.
I'm getting my kids back.

- [Judy] Good.
- Can I give you this?

- I don't know what it is.
- Well, I just want you to look at it.

You're telling me that this is part
of your daughter's criminal history.

- What is this?
- [Rhonda] No, I'm just telling you

she just got out of jail
just a couple of days ago.

They haven't picked
up charges, Your Honor.

- You were arrested on November 28th?
- Yes.

I'm not going to let
you tell me about this.

- You have a lawyer?
- Yes.

[Judy] As I said, Ms. Gutierrez,

if you're trying to work
to get your family back together...

- [Kimberly] Yes, ma'am.
- ...and your kids back together,

- Yes, ma'am.
- [Judy] it would be a good idea

to think about having more children

until you get these children
back under your roof.

We're done here.

- Your case is dismissed.
- You have a good day.

[bailiff]
This court is adjourned.

Oh, I love her decision.

I don't want to have
nothing to do with any of them.

They burned their bridges.

Perfect example of suffer,
the little children.

So you have three kids,

none of whom live with you.

They go back and forth
between a grandmother,

who would participate
in evading the police.

But with the police...
had to stop them by ramming the car.

Yeah. I was going to say

there is something
in the papers about a crash.

And she said
"He tried to ram my mother's car."

So, fingers crossed for her.

Yeah, and the kids.

But take care of these kids
before you think about having any more.

Yeah. Agreed.

[narrator]
Are you having a family dispute?



[closing theme plays]