02x100 - No Tub Left Behind

[bunniefuu]

Now you want to tell me
why you stopped paying rent?

There was a flood in the house.

And I said, "Oh my God,
there's water everywhere in the house."

What's going on?

Where did the leak come from?

We don't know.
They never told us.

Absolutely not.

And three days later,
we get an eviction notice on our door...

[narrator]
This is Judy justice.

[narrator] Shawna Hellerman
and Monica Tway

are suing their former tenants,

Carl and Renee Antonucci,
for property damage,

unpaid rent, and a bathtub.

[clerk] Court come to order. All rise.

Have seat, please.

Hello, Judge. Case 2154,
Hellerman, Tway versus Antonucci.

-Thank you.
-Welcome.

Miss Antonucci, the Plaintiff
Miss Hallerman, gave you a job.

-Yes.
-When?

It's probably February of 2021.

Where had you worked prior to that?

I just worked, uh, for myself.

Worked for yourself doing...

-in the same... cleaning?
-Cleaning.

Yes. And I worked for Rite Aid
as assistant manager.

And your husband was in prison?

For a year. Uh, last year.

He was in prison on
a two-to-10-year sentence.

Correct?

A rider program.

And it's, it's about a one-year program.

You were convicted in the state of Idaho
for what, sir? And when?

That was, uh, 2012. Was a third DUI.

Uh-huh. And at that time,
you were sentenced to two to 10 years.

All Correct. Yes. My apologies.

-There...
-I just read it online.

So it's not a secret. It's out there.

So you were sentenced from two to 12
with a minimum of two years

and the rest of the sentence
was supposed to be on probation.

Correct.

You violated the probation
and you were sent back to prison.

Correct.

And that decision, violating
your probation, you appealed.

Correct.

And the Appellate court,
the highest court in the state of Idaho,

affirmed the lower court decision
violating your parole.

-Probation. Yes, correct.
-[judge] Your probation.

And that was just six months ago.

-No, it was...
-February of 2022,

is when the opinion was published.

-Does that sound right?
-Yes.

-Okay.
-Response to that. Yes, correct.

Yes. So what was your release date
from jail?

It was January 11.

-Just a second. Don't answer for him.
-Yeah, January 11th. Yeah.

-January 11th of 2022.
-Correct.

[Judge Judy] Now you had been working
for the plaintiff

while he was incarcerated,
Miss Antonucci, without incident.

That be a fair statement?
You were happy with them?

I wasn't getting paid enough but yes.

Nobody's ever getting paid enough.
Even I don't get paid enough.

-Right.
-[audience laugh]

Everybody thinks they're worth
more than they getting paid.

You didn't quit.
You didn't complain.

Now, at some point
when your husband got out of jail,

there was a question about
where you were going to live.

Were you living in the property
in question

-before he got out of jail? No.
-No.

So he was getting out of jail. Where were
you living while he was in jail?

I was in Donnelly, Idaho in our motorhome.

Is there a reason that
when he got out of jail

he couldn't go to the motorhome with you?

He did.

And then you tell me how you ended up
in their property.

Shawna and Joe took us to dinner and...

They took you to dinner
for what reason?

I don't know.
Just take us dinner.

-Well, that was nice.
-Yes, it was nice.

Very nice.

So, so far, you're working for people
that you seem to like,

your husband is incarcerated.
He gets out of jail.

I assume you've told them
he was getting out of jail,

that that's why he was around now.

I assume you told him
that he had been in prison.

-Yes.
-Okay.

And they didn't hold that against him.

-They invited you out for dinner.
-Yes.

Tell me how the conversation came up
about a new place to live.

We were just talking about moving to
Adams County.

-Why?
-Just a better situation.

Just a second.

Was he required to be in
a particular county for his probation?

No.

Now was he required to live
in that county?

No, he's not unless he puts
in a request to move.

And that was approved.

Well, is there any reason
why you put in a request to move

after he was released from prison?

Yes. Because they offered, um,
talk to Monica about the house

that was coming up for rent
in Adams County.

Just a second, who knew about the house?

Did you know about the house
that was coming up for rent?

-No.
-Yeah,

I'm not getting a sense
of forthcoming answers from you.

-You have somebody who cleans for you...
-Mm-hmm.

...whose husband has been incarcerated,

who hasn't been living
in any of your property.

Now he's coming out of jail.

And I want you to tell me how
the discussion of a place to live came up.

-You're out to dinner?
-Yes.

We invited him out to dinner.
We were excited to meet him.

They had mentioned they had put in
for a change of probation officers.

So he put in a request
for a new probation officer?

Yes.

But for the fact that you told them,
they would have no way of knowing

that you had to move
from one place to another.

You had to have told them
you put in a request to move.

-We're just looking for a place to live.
-No, actually, actually...

You approach them and said,
"Do you have a place for us"?

-No, I did not.
-Well then, how did it come about?

There was sort of acrimony
at the end of your moving out,

but I'm going to take one thing at a time.

They say that when you moved out
you took a claw bathtub.

Did you take the bathtub?
The answer was either yes or no.

[narrator] Shawna Hellerman
and Monica Tway are accusing

their former tenants,
Carl and Renee Antonucci,

of not paying rent and stealing a tub.

We were friends.

-And they invited us for dinner.
-Who was friends?

-Just a second...
-Shawna and I were friends.

Yes.

-This is somebody who's a friend of yours.
-Yes, I didn't...

I clean her house, uh, very randomly,
but I was a subcontractor.

I was not an employee.

In fact, I called myself
an employee of her's once,

and she said, "You're not an employee.

You're my friend
or you're a subcontractor."

So we were at dinner,
and we're saying that

we were wanting to look
for a place to live.

And Joe said, "Oh, well, there's place
in Adams County that Monica just bought.

I'll talk to her about you guys moving
in there."

That's how we came to know
about that place.

Great.

We were fine with living in our motorhome,

but it would be nice to have more room,
so we're excited about that.

That's how we found out about it.

You found out about it
because you needed a place to live,

-that you were moving.
-We didn't, well...

That's according to your husband.

As a general contractor
trying to find housing,

one of my ideas was, well,
let's rent a house, let's rent a place.

I need space cause I've trailers,
I have a flatbed, I've cargo trailer.

I've the two vehicles and the Harley.
I need a garage, I need a shop.

I need to, you know, expand.

That's the sole reason
for finding a different place.

And also trying to save money
to buy a home

and recover and do all these things,
you know,

-build my business, so forth. And...
-Ultimately, you moved out.

There was sort of acrimony
at the end of you're moving out,

but I'm going to take one thing at a time.

They say that when you moved out,
you took a club bathtub.

I know what those are, they are sort of,
a decorative old piece.

I had them, say... sometimes use them now
when they renovate houses

and put modern stuff around
this claw bathtub.

Did you take the bathtub?

The answer is either yes or no.

-Yes.
-Of course.

You say you took it in the answer.

Did you have permission to take it?

-Yes.
-Yes.

Who gave you permission?

-Monica.
-Monica,

did you give them permission to take it?

Absolutely, not.
I did not give them permission to take it.

So now I want one of you to tell me
when the conversation took place,

where it took place, and who was present.

One of you is gonna talk to me.

When we're about to move in and doing
the walkthrough of the residence.

No, just a second, not moving out?

-You were going to move in.
-Right.

And you moved into
the residence in February of 2021.

-What month?
-No, we moved in in April.

-April of 2022? And you moved out when?
-[Carl murmuring]

August 21st... of 2022, of course.

Okay, so what you're saying
Antonucci is that in April...

now you gonna tell me your story...

in April you were walking through
the premises with the owner.

I was gonna do some work on the place too
before we moved in

and when we moved in at some of the trade
or I would bill them at a discounted rate

and, uh, there was supposed to be
a fireplace or wood stove.

Really the main reason I moved
into this place

was because of wood stove.
Electricity...

Listen to me, I don't care.

Bathtub. I don't care about a fireplace.
I care about a bathtub.

Yeah. Discussion comes up
about the bathtub.

She says she's not going to plumb it in,
and she says, "If you guys want the tub,

you can keep it. You can,
you can plumb it in if you want.

But, you know, I'm not gonna plumb it in
and deal with it."

Okay, so she said to you

she had this bathtub there
that she didn't want to plumb in.

-I assume that means "connect".
-Correct.

-Because the...
-Connect to water.

She didn't want to plumb it in.

You can either use it
if you want to plumb it in or not.

-That's what she said to you?
-No.

No! Only him.

-Have.
-No, I didn't hear,

I didn't hear the word "have".
You wanna read back what he said?

Please?

He says, "Discussion comes up
about the bathtub".

She says, "I'm not going
to plumb this thing in".

She says, "if you guys want the tub,
you can keep it"

"you can plumb it in if you want".

"But, you know, I'm not going to plumb it
in and deal with it."

[Judge Judy] You want to use it,
you can use it.

-Keep it. Keep it. Have it.
-If you keep it...

Not keep it and take it away with you.

You're moving in to her house.

She said this bathtub isn't connected
to water.

You can, if you want to, plumb it in.

Of course, according to you, she knew
you were in the construction business.

And keep it or not,
but I'm not plumbing it in.

And you view that, four months later,

as saying "I can take the bathtub."

-Yeah, there's more discussion about it.
-Yeah, it was.

-Let me here the more discussion about it.
-She didn't want the tub.

Just a second.
That's a conclusion in your mind

that she didn't want the tub.

Based upon what you just said to me,
if you're moving into a house,

you're moving into a place,
that statement that she made

could not be construed in my mind
as you can "have," "keep,"

"it now belongs to you," the bathtub.
You can either plumb it in or not.

If you want to keep it, plumb it in.

And if you don't want to keep it,
don't plumb it in.

Okay, where's the bathtub?

-In storage?
-They get it back. Five days.

-She said she was gonna...
-Five days.

-Thank you, Your Honor.
-Five. I'll give you an order.

Is that all you have to contribute
to this case?

Some other witnessing, but that...

-That...
-Then as a witness, you can sit down.

You're getting your bathtub back
in five days.

-Okay, thank you, Your Honor.
-Good.

Now, let's talk about the next thing,
which is damages to the duplex.

So they moved in in April.
Did they pay rent in April?

-Yes, they did.
-They paid rent in May?

-Yes, they did pay for May.
-And June?

No, they have not completed their payment
for June.

-How much was their rent?
-Twelve hundred a month.

How much did they pay in June?

They still have $80 owing,
$30 in rent and $50 late fee.

Okay. I'm not interest...

-What about July?
-Nothing.

Was there any rent in July?

No. No payments. No.

-Did you live in the premises in July?
-Yes.

You were evicted on 8/21.
Up until the 21st of August,

-were you living in the premises?
-Yes.

-Did you pay rent in August?
-No.

Okay. Now you want to tell me
why you stopped paying rent in July?

Yes, on July 10th,
there was a flood in the house.

July 10th, there was a flood in the house
from where?

-We believe it was a spigot.
-We never...

No one ever told us

-where it came from.
-No, no, no. But you're living there.

They're not living there.

-Right, you're living there.
-Upstairs and...

I'm only going to listen to one person.

Not talking over each other.

-Is that you or your wife?
-Me.

Fine. You're living there
April, May, June. July, there's a leak.

I'm living in a house.
I know where the leak came.

Leak comes from a refrigerator,

it comes from a window,
it comes from a ceiling.

It comes from something.
Where did the leak come from?

Yeah, I wasn't home for that.
We came home to the flood.

I came home to the flood at like 8:40.

Was it coming from the apartment
above you?

-No, it was not.
-Where was it coming from?

I called Monica and I said, "Oh, my God,
there's water everywhere in the house.

What's going on?"
She didn't know what was going on.

So we were trying to figure out
where to turn the water off.

I'm still trying to figure out
if you live there in July,

why weren't you paying rent?

[narrator] Shana Hellerman and Monica Tway
claimed their former tenants,

Carl and Renee Antonucci,
owe for unpaid rent and a bathtub.

Carl and Renee are countersuing
for property damage

and loss of income.

Okay, was it coming from
the apartment above you?

-No, it was not.
-Where was it coming from?

Apparently, there was
a broken, uh, plumbing pipe

from the front spigot
leak underneath the house

and came up through the...

So there was a broken internal pipe
as far as you know.

Now, your husband's
in the construction business, he said.

So when the flood happened,

did you try to find
the source of the flood?

-I wasn't home, Your Honor.
-Where were you?

-I was at work.
-Well, eventually did you come home?

Yeah, I came home that evening real quick.

Well, that evening. Did you try to find
where the leak came from?

I can... I had to get back to work.
They were...

she was dealing with the cleanup.
The water was turned off.

And they were sending a plumber
or something.

-So they...
-Monica said, she would take care of it...

So they turned off the water,
which is perfectly reasonable

because the water is coming
from an internal pipe that burst. Right?

And then what happened?
I'm still trying to figure out...

They did not turn off the water
until after. I got home, I walked in,

so I called Monica and I said, "Oh my God,
there's water everywhere in the house.

What's going on?"
She didn't know what was going on.

So we were trying to figure out
where to turn the water off.

-So that's when the water...
-Okay, I understand so far...

One hundred percent understand you.

Got it. You came home, you found water,
trying to find where it comes from.

Finally, turned off the water.

I'm still trying to figure out
if you lived there in July,

why weren't you paying rent?

We were behind on rent
because I was working

and he was trying to get his job
situated down in, uh, Boise

or wherever he could get contracts
with his injuries.

So, what you're telling me is
that you didn't pay rent in July

because you didn't have the money?

-No, we did not have the money.
-Well, that's what I'm asking you.

So other than the fact
that you didn't have money,

there was no reason
why you didn't pay rent.

We were making payments
whenever we could.

-And that was fine for Shawna.
-You made no payments in July.

You made no payment in July? No.

-In June you did. In July, you did not.
-In June we did. In July, we did not.

-Listen...
-As long as I was still working for them,

that was fine when we really
are making payments to them.

Just a second.
You made no payments in July

and you made no payments in August.
You had made payments in

-April, May...
-I wasn't goingt to pay for August...

-...and June.
-...when we had a flood.

-I'm just telling you.
-Yes.

I'm asking you a question.
Is the reason you didn't pay your rent

-because you didn't have any money?
-Yes, Your Honor.

Okay, then you owe them the rent.

Twenty-four hundred dollars.
You lived there...

-It was a...
-Wait, wait a minute, Your Honor.

I'm not speaking to you. Listen,
you're a tag along on this whole thing.

You understand that?

I think these people were very nice
to you.

-I probably...
-[Carl] I'm not. I'm not...

Yeah, I probably wouldn't have been
as nice.

-The house was flooded,
-The house was flooded.

-That is why I couldn't pay the rent.
-I've already...

-Just a sec, just a second.
-It shut my business down.

-It shut my business down.
-[giggles]

That house was flooded.

My plans are ruined, my computer's...

There was two inches of water.


-Yeah.
-Monica said she's gonna come over...

Mr. Antonucci,
you can't talk over me, sir.

-Apologies but...
-Just listen, you can't talk over me.

I'm older than you are,
and I've lived in many apartments.

And believe me,
I have been the cause of a flood

and I've been the recipient of floods
from people around me.

Usually, it's an accident.

-That usually is not on purpose.
-Yeah.

Very few people turn on their bathtub

and say I'm gonna
let this bathtub overflow

into my bottom neighbor's house.

It's usually as a result of a broken pipe
which nobody can see.

Or an air conditioner plugs up
and the pan overflows

and the, whatever they call it,

the little waterbug signal
doesn't go blink, blink.

So you don't even know
that it's going off and there's a flood.

That's not somebody's fault.

So now you have a flood
that is nobody's fault...

not yours because you're the tenants.
So clearly it wasn't your fault.

Not something that they anticipated
and not something that they were derelict

in taking care of.
So now, what did they do

once the initial mess was cleaned up?
How did they fix it?

-Did they fix the pipe?
-We don't know. They never told us.

I mean they said that
a plumber came to the house.

He left a hole in the, uh, in the ceiling,
which I have a picture of.

Just a second, you live there
the whole month of July and into August.

Did you have water?

Just answer my question. You lived there
the whole month of July

after this happened
and the majority of August.

Did it flood again?

-No, because we...
-Just... not "because."

It didn't flood again.

And what did the Plaintiff do
to remediate that?

Did they put in fans or blowers?

They, they put in one fan and then
she finally brought five more over.

So I had six fans in
an 1800-square-foot house

and one window that opened.
We lived in the basement...

So they put in fans,
you said, they put in one...

She bought them and I plugged them
and I brought them... put them on...

and I put them in the bedrooms,
in the hallway,

-in the kitchen, living room.
-Oh, listen,

I have a feeling that you're a victim
in more ways than one.

That's what you're supposed to do.

-You are living there.
-Right.

They sent it over
and you plugged them into the wall.

That's what you're telling me.

-And there's also a...
-Twenty-four hundred...

Twenty-four hundred dollars.

You owe them two month's rent
and the bathtub.

Let's go for next.
What damages to the duplex, Ms. Hellerman?

We had some drywall damages,
lot of garbage debris,

-large dump run, couch...
-Yeah, I'm not interested in that.

Twenty-four hundred dollars
and the bathtub.

Now I'm gonna get to your counterclaim.

Money owed for loss of income,
damage to a motorcycle,

wrongful eviction...

Well, you didn't pay your rent,
so the wrongful eviction is out.

Defamation. What's the defamation?

So Monica sent me a text
when I quit working for her,

and it said,
"Thanks for dropping off the keys."

I said, "You're welcome".

She goes, "Really thank you for giving me
one day notice.

No good deed... dot, dot, dot...
goes unpunished."

And three days later,
we get an eviction notice on our door...

-But we...
-I want to know what the defamation is.

What's the defamation? Nothing.

Crossed out defamation.
Damage to my motorcycle?

Yeah, they laid gravel down
in the driveway without notification

and you can't ride a 900-pound Harley
through gravel.

So his bike went down.

Twenty-four hundred dollars. Judgment for
the Plaintiff. Counter claims dismissed.

We're done here,
and she is absolutely right.

"No good deed goes unpunished".

[Bailiff] This court is adjourned.

She definitely got to the bottom
of their character.

That house was a deathtrap.

We received a text with pictures
of small puddles throughout the home

on a concrete slab...

She didn't want to plumb the tub in

and she said we could have it
if you want to use it.

Because if not, she's gonna get rid of it,

she's gonna throw it away,
take it to the dump.

I didn't ever tell him
that they can have the tub.

I told him I was not going to install it
at that time

and that I had already arranged to have
the tub removed. I was going to store it.

You know, I think what bothers me more
than anything else about cases like that

is that those were two nice people.

-The Plaintiffs were two nice people.
-Sure.

And they actually took a chance.

They had an employee
who was there for a year.

Now she's got a husband
who's recently released

from, um, whatever kind of prison
he was in.

But they welcomed him,
they took him to dinner.

They needed a new place to live,
and then they leave the place a mess.

They give them no notice.

They just dropped the keys
and we're leaving.

And don't pay rent for two months
and took property

that he knew was valuable
because they moved back to their motorhome

so they didn't need a claw bathtub,
which are expensive...

They pay for that storage...

But they pay for the storage
in order to keep it.

So the Plaintiff was right...
no good deed goes unpunished.

-True.
-Too bad.

[narrator] Want justice?