02x114 - Generational Scam

[bunniefuu]

So, you have a joint savings account

with you and your great-grandmother.

- Yes.
- You have checks that are made out

to you, from a person
that you don't know!

- Umm...
- Yes, ma'am.

I didn't know that they were bad.

You're not a stupid person? Right?

[narrator]
This is Judy Justice.

♪♪

[narrator] Maude Gatlin is suing
her great-granddaughter,

Angelina Marshall,
and her daughter,

Angela Norrie,

for writing fraudulent checks.

[bailiff]
Court, come to order. All rise.

Have a seat, please.

[bailiff]
Hello, Judge.

Case 2169,
Gatlin versus Marshall and Norrie.

- Thank you.
- You're welcome.

- Ms. Gatlin?
- Right here.

Who's Marshall?

- Me.
- [Judy] This is your grandmother?

- Great-grandmother...
- [Judy] Great-grandmother?

Yes, Your Honor.

Would you have a seat for a moment?

- Me?
- [Judy] Yes.

Thank you.

- And this is your...?
- [Angelina] My great-aunt.

[Judy]
Your first name is Angelina?

- Yes, Your Honor.
- [Judy] And you said

- that this was your great-aunt?
- No. She's my great-grandmother,

and then, the other lady is my great-aunt.

[Judy]
No, no... who is the plaintiff?

- My great-grandmother.
- [Judy] Oh, that what it says

in the complaint, I didn't understand it

when you said, "That was my great-aunt."

- Sorry.
- [Judy] OK. How old are you today?

- I'm 18.
- [Judy] When did you turn 18?

- September 24th.
- [Judy] Prior to your turning 18,

- you had a job?
- [Angelina] Yes.

- Doing what?
- Being a food associate worker.

[Judy]
How long were you working there?

I was there for five months.

And how much were you making an hour?

- Seventeen dollars.
- [Judy] Who were you living with?

My great... mm, sorry, my grandmother.

[Judy] And, Ms. Gatlin,
is Ms. Norrie your daughter?

- Yes, she's my oldest daughter. Yes.
- [Judy] That's what I thought.

Because you were working,
you wanted to start a bank account?

Yes. Yes, Your Honor.

[Judy]
And you asked your great-grandmother

whether she could help you do that,

because you needed a co-signer?

Um, no, she actually offered if...

[Judy]
OK, well, tell me about it.

Well, I was helping her move some stuff
into our apartment,

- and then, um...
- [Judy] You were helping her

- with...?
- I was helping her move some of her stuff

into our apartment,
'cause at the, at the current time,

she needed to live with us,
and I was helping her out...

[Judy] Your great-grandmother
was going to be living with you?

- [Angelina] Yes.
- [Judy] And what month was that?

- June.
- [Judy] June of...?



So you were helping her move
some of the things into your house?

- [Angelina] Yes.
- [Judy] And?

[Angelina]
And, well, we were at the bank,

so she wanted to withdraw some money for,

well, I don't know, really,
know what she was doing,

but I was just riding around with her.

You a working lady, or were you?

- Yes, I do work, Your Honor.
- [Judy] For whom?

I work for Secure Tech.

[Judy] And that's where
you deposit your paychecks?

Yes, my paychecks
are directly deposited, that is correct.

OK, so now you're traveling
with your great-grandmother, around,

and she had to make,
go in and make a deposit?

- [Angelina] Mm-hmm.
- [Judy] Or a withdrawal.

- Yes.
- [Judy] And?

Well, um, I was sitting there
waiting for her to finish,

and, um, well, while we were waiting

for a teller to open up for her,
before she went outside,

uh, she asked me if I would like
to open a...a savings account.

And, um, well, I really didn't need one,

but I was, like, yeah, sure, so I can
at least have my checks go somewhere.

Well, what were you doing
with your checks before that?

Um, I would just take them to the bank.

Is that where the bank
that they were drawn on?

- Yes.
- [Judy] OK. So you were taking them

- to the bank that they were drawn on,
- Yes.

[Judy]
to cash? OK.

But this was a more convenient bank?

Um, yes. She said it would help me
with my credit, so I'm, like, yeah, sure.

Since she wants to help out.

[Judy] OK.
So, you had some paychecks

- that you were putting in there?
- Yes.

Those are not the checks
that are at issue.

How long did you put your paychecks
into the bank,

that was now a joint savings account
with you and your great-grandmother,

starting in June?

Excuse me? What?

[Maude]
It actually started in May, Your Honor.

- [Judy] May of 2022?
- Y-Yes. And, um,

to go back a little bit, Angelina, yes,
I was living with my oldest daughter.

Angelina came to me one night
and she said, "Granny,"

she said, "Can you help me
open a bank account?"

And I said, "Well, we'll see."

So, she happened to be with me
that particular day,

when I went to take care
of a transaction.

And I said, "Hey, let's see
if we can open your...your account,

that you asked me about."

And the young lady asked her
how old she was.

She said 17.

She said, "Well, unfortunately,
you can't open an account."

- She said, "But you..."
- You have to... you have to...

- need a co-signer.
- [Maude] Yeah. She said, "Ms. Gatlin?"

She said, "Since you've been
banking with us for a while,

Angelina can open up a junior account
on your account."

So I said, "Oh, OK."

- Great. So, it was opened in May.
- It was opened in May.

- [Judy] Great.
- May the 11th.

[Judy] And you put
your paychecks in there?

- Yes.
- And you withdrew from your paychecks

what you needed to live?

- Yes.
- [Judy] Is that what happened?

- Yes, Your Honor.
- But then there came some checks

that you weren't quite sure

of how they originated?

They were not your paychecks?

What checks were those?

Um, they were some checks
that a family member gave to me...

[Judy]
No, no, not a family member.

Not a family member.

Your father gave to you?

- Yes.
- [Judy] When did your father

give you these checks?

I'm... gonna say maybe July?

- I'm not too sure...
- [Judy] When did you see

- your father?
- I, well, he's in and out

of our lives a lot, we never really
talked to him when he was around.

But, um, maybe about...

No, no, look at me,
and tell me how it is

that your father gave you checks,

which turned out to be bad,

to put in your account,
your bank account?

Well, he was just trying to help out...

No, not just trying to help out.

I want you to tell me
where you received the checks,

what he said to you
when he gave you the checks,

and I assume he did not
give you the checks

all at one time?

- No, he didn't.
- [Judy] He gave them to you

- intermittently?
- Yes.

[Judy] So tell me
when he gave you the first check.

- Was that in July?
- [Angelina] Yes.

- [Judy] Where was he?
- Um, we were at my house.

- With?
- My grandmother.

[Judy]
With your grandmother?

- She likes him?
- [Angelina] Yes.

And what happened
when he was at your house...

- [Angelina] Well, um...
- in July?

Well, he came over to check us...

to check up on us, the family.

And he's, like, um, "Angelina,
do you need some money?"

I said, "Yeah, Dad,
to help out with the bills."

He's like, "OK, here, cash this,"
and like...

No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

♪♪

What happened when your grandmother
told you that the checks were bad?

I was, like, OK, I didn't know, 'cause
I was trying to get into my account.

I didn't know about it.
I'm like, OK, she said,

"Are you gonna pay it
so it won't come back on me?"

I'm like, "Yes, I will pay it."

You're talking very fast.

♪♪

♪♪

[narrator] Maude Gatlin claims
her 18-year-old great-granddaughter,

Angelina Marshall, used her account
to cash fraudulent checks.

OK. Now, according to you,
your father's been in and out of prison?

- Yes.
- How long had he been out of prison

when he came to the house?

I'm gonna be honest, I don't know,

'cause he's honestly
been in and out of jail a lot.

So I don't really keep track
of how many times he gets out and in.

Well, I'm just asking,
when he came to your house in July,

had he been in jail in June?
In April?

- I... April.
- [Judy] He'd been in jail in April?

- In May?
- No. He was not in jail.

Where was he working?

Um, he was actually,
he wasn't working anywhere.

[Judy]
He wasn't working in May?

No. He does his own thing.

What does... I don't know what that means.

- [chuckling] Me, either.
- [Judy] I don't know [mumbling]...

Was he working in May?
Was he working in June?

- Mmm, no.
- [Judy] When you say

he was doing his own thing,

this "own thing" that he was doing,
did not produce paychecks?

To be... I don't
get into my father's business,

- so I wouldn't know.
- [Judy] So you took these checks...

Do you have a copy of the check?

Anybody have a copy
of the first check from...

I only have one.

Um, four of them is there.

[Judy] Well, first of all,
I don't see any signature on here.

On the first one, there isn't,
uh, uh, on, on the 3560,

- uh, Your Honor...
- [Judy] No, on 600,

Six hundred, twelve hundred...

[Maude]
There isn't any signature on any of them.

It's just that she wrote her name on it,

and...and, screenshot them
into the account.

- [Judy] Now...
- [Maude] And I do have the breakdown.

- I'm sorry?
- [Judy] Just a second.

I do have these checks

starting to be deposited

in August, one on the 11th,

two written to you on the 16th,

from a Suzanne,
and they're made out to you.

- Right?
- Yes.

You're not a stupid person, right?

- No.
- [Judy] I want you to tell me

who Suzanne is.

I...I...I wouldn't know.

My dad, I swear,
my dad just gave them to me

and told me to cash 'em.

Well, Ms. Marshall, you have checks
that are made out to you

from a person that you don't know!

Not from one of your work checks,

it's made out to you, it's signed
by somebody who you work for.

It indicates the number of hours
on the stub,

do you know what I'm talking about?

- Yes.
- [Judy] This is written by somebody

that you have no idea who it is.

Now, a person with a modicum
of intelligence

that has an unsigned check
would say,

"Who is Suzanne?"

Are you telling me
that you didn't ask that question?

- No.
- [Judy] No.

Now, when you signed the checks,

- because they had to be signed, right?
- [Angelina] Yes.

Whose name did you sign?

- My name.
- [Judy] Well, the checks

are made out to you,
which means you could've cashed them.

Am I missing something?

So her name was DocuSigned
on these checks?

And she merely endorsed them?

Is that what you're telling me?

Basically, what I'm seeing,
from what the bank tells me,

she put her name on it, put the amount
that she wanted to withdraw,

did a screen shot, and got the money.

OK. Now. OK.
There did come a time

when you found out
that these checks

were bad checks?

- Mm-hmm
- [Judy] Right?

- Yes.
- [Judy] And that they were going

to hold your great-grandmother
responsible for those checks,

because you already took out the cash.

And you spent it.

All of it.

Not your pay.
You may have taken out your pay, too.

I'm gonna ask you
a very serious question:

Did you give your father

any portion of the checks
that he gave you?

Did he say to you,

"Well, this is work that I did
for this woman,

so, if you cash them,

you can give me some,
and you can keep the rest"?

Think carefully
before you answer my question.

- No, Your Honor.
- [Judy] So, he just said to you,

"Take these blank checks,
fill them in, and deposit them"?

No, he... he's the one that filled them in,
he told me this, I'm, like,

I looked at him, like,
"Dad, are you sure?"

He's, like,
"Trust me, Lina, they're fine."

I'm like...

Well, why...why would you trust him?
What does he go to jail for?

[sighs] Way different stuff from...

[Judy]
Sounds like a dreamboat.

Well, so now I'm going to ask you:

You took this money out,
and what did you do with it?

Paid bills, bought stuff I needed
for my daughter.

- [Judy] Like what?
- Diapers, clothes, shoes...

You know, saving.

Just, uh, in case I needed
some more stuff for her,

but I really didn't save.

Took her to places,
just to get her out of the house.

And... well...

[Judy] Well, what happened
when your grandmother told you

that the checks were bad?

Did she tell you it one time
that all the checks were bad,

or did she tell you
over a series of times?

- She only, she told me twice.
- [Judy] Twice?

The first time it was


I didn't know, 'cause I was trying
to get into my account,

I didn't know about it, I'm, like,
OK, she's like, "Are you gonna pay it

so it won't come back on me?"
I'm, like, "Yes, I will pay it..."

- You're talking very fast.
- [Angelina] Sorry.

I said to my grandmother,
or my grandmother said to me,

"Four hundred dollars is,
they're discounting

because it was a bad check,"

and that must've been
one of the first checks.

- Yes.
- [Judy] And you said?

[Angelina] I said, "I will pay it back
once my next paycheck goes through."

[Judy]
You will pay back what?

The 400... I'm not, not exact
how much it was,

- but I know it was 400...
- [Judy] OK. So now you know

that the checks that your father
was giving you were bad.

Yes.

[Judy]
That's with only $400 in it.

'Cause you said to her,
"Well, I'll pay you back,"

'cause you've been using that money
to take care of you.

- Yes.
- [Judy] In addition to the money

- that you're earning.
- Yes.

[Judy] You were using the money
that your great-grandmother was earning

to take care of you.

So, now you find out
that the checks are bad,

but your father gives you other checks.

Did your father give you other checks?

No.
Not after... not after everything happened.

'Cause he, well, once everything
started to happen...

No. When he gave you the $400 check,

and the $400 check was returned,

and you said, "I will replace it
once I get to work",

- there is more than one check here.
- Mm-hmm.

Why did you continue to deposit checks?

Well, when they all came back to me,
about all negative this,

I was, like, "OK, what's going on?"

I checked and it said
how the checks were bad.

Again, I didn't know that they were bad.

So, when I saw, I was, like,
OK, I had to find a way to pay it back,

so, you know, my great-grandmother
won't get mad,

and no one else will have to get involved.

Do you want to tell me
how much you owe the bank?

OK, Your Honor, um,
I went to the bank on the 23rd.

[Judy] No, just tell me
how much you owe to the bank.

It's 3,600.
That's what they had... did.

- [Judy] OK.
- At this time, I've been paying on it.

At this time, it's 2,300 and some change.

[sobbing] I'm sorry.

[Judy]
All right, you've been paying on it?

Yes, ma'am.

And it started at $3,600.

Yes, ma'am.

Did your great-granddaughter
pay you any money towards it?

- No, she did not.
- [Judy] Why not?

Well, I was gonna pay it back,

but then she had my Aunt Janea
come into my house,

and take a lot of my electronics.

♪♪

I would've said to myself,
"Self, this doesn't look right.

I don't know",
or "I have to ask my father

who's writing all these checks.

She's somebody he works for?

Or is it somebody whose checks he stole?"

♪♪

♪♪

[narrator] Maude Gatlin is accusing
her 18-year-old great-granddaughter,

Angelina Marshall, of cashing
fraudulent checks with her account.

Angelina claims her electronics were sold

to pay for the debt.

Now, she took what electronics?

She took, um, three of our TVs.

[Judy] Now, you bought
those TVs with this money?

No, all the stuff that she took was bought
way before any of this happened.

My Play... my PlayStation,

my daughter's tablet,

my, um, Apple laptop,

my daughter's laptop,

two of my speakers,
and three of our TVs.

And did she sell them, do you know?

Uh, from what I know, I know
she probably sold a little bit of it,

I'm not really sure.

[Judy] Well, then, I think
that that's something you have to take up,

you can take that up with your aunt.

And that's how we start putting
some of the money into the bank,

of the $430.

It was from some of the electronics.

OK. So, with regard to the $3,900,

you paid off $400?

No, the 30, it was, it was $3,600,

and when I seen it that day,

I looked on my phone,
it was 3,000 and something dollars.

I went to the bank and asked them,

"What in the world is going on
with my account?"

No, I got exactly what happened
and I've laid it out.

After you sold the electronics

that your daughter took...

- Yes, Janea.
- [Judy] That your daughter took

- from their house,
- [Maude] Mm-hmm.

- [Judy] and you sold them...?
- I did.

[Judy] How much
were you able to put in the bank

with the sold electronics?

It was 430, and she didn't take it.

She was told to take it.

[Judy]
I don't care whether she took it or,

- it doesn't matter to me.
- [Maude] OK.

- $430.
- [Maude] Mm-hmm.

And they deleted
all of my different accounts

that I had within my account

of $103...

and... um...

$107.53.

I had other little accounts that...

[Judy]
Just a second, you owed $3,600.

- Yes, that's what the bank said...
- [Judy] Just a second...

and you put back in,
to satisfy the bad checks,

- $430?
- Exactly.

So, what's owed to you is $3,200?

$3,270.

And then I put another
hundred dollars on it

in December because of the fact

the credit people came to me and told me

- if I don't put something...
- [Judy] No, no, no,

I just want to know what's left,

- [Maude] OK.
- what's left after the 430?

- [Maude] OK, as of...
- Shh! What?

- Thirty-one seventy.
- Thirty-one sev, thirty-one seventy.

- Thank you.
- 3,600 minus the 430.

Yeah. Great. Thank you.

[Maude]
OK, as of today,

- it's $2,252 and four cents.
- [Judy] Ms. Gatlin,

- I am going to make you whole.
- [Maude] OK.

Not the money that you paid in yourself.

- OK.
- [Judy] What I want to know is,

how much money you paid in?

- Zero.
- No, I did pay some in,

put in some of my paychecks
that did go through at the time

after everything happened,
'cause I did continue working.

[Judy]
No, these were bad checks.

These were the bad checks
that are owed, $3,600.

Yes, but I did put
a little bit money in.

- Well, how much?
- Only one of my checks went in,

which was probably
not even worth $100...

[Judy]
Well, I'm not interested in it.

- [Judy] Then I'm not interested.
- It was $62, to be exact.

- [Judy] Shh! Shh.
- Sorry.

[Judy]
I'm not interested in it.

Virtually no money, with the exception
of perhaps one paycheck,

which amounted to about $100,

- was put in by you?
- Yes.

- [Judy] Is that right?
- Yes.

[Judy]
OK. So the question is,

whether I believe that,
a] you knew,

or should've known,
that these were bad checks.

And I think you're a pretty smart girl.

Given your father's history,
he gives you these checks,

two in one day, one's for $1,200,

one's for $600, one's for $300,

you'd say, "Dad, where'd you get
this money from?"

And if you're putting your money
into the bank,

your money from work,
which is a very good thing, that's fine,

but I'm gonna save up that money,

I'm not gonna buy electronics,

I'm not gonna buy anything else
for the house,

what I'm going to do is save that money,

or at least see what happens with it.

So, I would've said to myself,

"Self, this doesn't look right.

I don't know," or "I have to ask my father

who's writing all these checks?

She's somebody he works for?

Or is it somebody whose checks he stole?"

- Do you understand?
- Yes, Your Honor.

Great. Judgment for the plaintiff
in the amount of $3,170.

Thank you very much.
We're done.

[bailiff]
This court is adjourned.

♪♪

What they did to us was way worse
than what I did to them.

It was very hurtful,

[sobbing] and I'm still
in the stress mode about it.

They took all of...all of our electronics,

our TVs, my PlayStation,
laptops and speakers.

The truth is, I have a video
showing that my niece

actually voluntarily gave me
all the electronics to be taken care of.

She said she was gonna do it,
and she wasn't gonna do it.

Which is the reason why I took the items

to have everything
taken care of for my mom.

My thing is, the property
that they, she took,

it... we bought that couple of years back.

And that shouldn't had nothing to do
with what's going on now.

We're not happy people, and you know,
to be honest with you,

because of the fact
that they did my... our mother like this,

we don't have anything to do with them.

Well, all I can say is,
she'll never see me or my child again.

And that's... and that's generations
going out of her life

over some petty stuff
that could've been dealt with easily.

I don't know if it can be solved.
God will be that answer.

Don't do your family wrong,
even as much as you love 'em,

'cause they raised me, with her,
ever since I was four,

and they still did me wrong
growing up,

and they still did me wrong today.

You can't trust anyone in your family,

but that doesn't mean don't do 'em wrong.

[sobbing] Because I never thought
my family would do this to me.

Another great lesson in the dangers
of co-signing anything.

For a car, for a dog,

for a bank account, because I'm sure
the great-grandmother plaintiff

would not have accepted checks
from her previous son-in-law.

- Oh.
- Knowing his background,

and knowing at...at least
she would've asked a follow-up question.

- That's right.
- So, I understand

the daughter's position of,
"Hey, I know what he's been involved in,

I don't want to be involved,"
but if that's your stance,

you can't benefit from taking checks
that you know are probably dirty.

So, and unfortunately, the grandmother
didn't get a crash course from us

on the dangers of co-signing
on a bank account.

'Cause they can not only, evidently,
go into your bank,

- Yeah.
- that particular account,

but they can attach any account...

Like she said, they drained
all of her other accounts

to fulfill the debt,
so there's real dangers in co-signing,

even with someone that you love,
like your great-granddaughter.

- Yeah. You're right.
- Yeah.

[narrator]
Are you having a family dispute?