03x96 - LAPD Comic Book Clash

[bunniefuu]

I had gone into his comic book store
looking to sell the comic books.

-He took some of your comics?
-Yes, ma'am.

-What happened to them?
-I cannot confirm.

Hundreds were missing.
What happened to his comic books?

Either they were lost, stolen,
eaten by trolls... pick from the menu.

-[announcer] This is Judy Justice.
-[theme music]

[announcer] Manuel Romeral is suing
comic book store owner Andrew Liegl

-for the value of stolen comic books.
-[Kevin] Court come to order. All rise.

[Judy]
Have a seat, please.

Judge, case 3150, Romeral versus Liegl.

-Thank you.
-Welcome.

[Judy] Mr. Romeral,
what do you do for a living, sir?

Ma'am, I'm retired.
I did 34 years with LAPD.

-Married man?
-[Manuel] Yes, ma'am.

-My wife is right next to me.
-[Judy] Is she a working lady?

[Manuel] She was. She retired from LAPD
as well, after 29 years as a detective.

-And what do you do, sir?
-I own the comic book store

Brave New World Comics
in Santa Clarita, California.

Would you take a look at that, Sarah?

-How long have you owned the store, sir?
-Since August of 2017.

[Judy] And I have to tell you that
I don't know much about comic books.

It's just comic books
or you also trade trading cards?

-Oh, we do comic books...
-[Judy] Just a second.

-We're not auditioning here, sir.
-[Andrew] Yeah.

There's only one star here, that's me.

-[courtroom laughs]
-[Judy] So let's bring it down a notch,

unless for some reason you can't.

Because, you know,
you're dealing with somebody

who's gonna have to make a judgment
based upon what I hear

as to whether or not you're
an honest guy or not an honest guy.

So far, I'm not getting a good feeling.

And it's your presentation. I have no
preconceived notion of you at all, okay?

-So, let's bring it down a notch.
-You also do trading cards?

Oh, we do sports, we do games
for the community, yes.

Sports cards, trading cards,
Pokémon, magic cards, yes, ma'am.

Just enthusiastic about comics.

-He trades everything?
-Yeah. And the website is well-laid out.

Comic books, graphic novels,
graded items, books,

toys and games, all that sort of thing.

They also, just for later,
do have an appraisals page.

They have an appraisals page
on their website that says

that it's $25 for a
ten-minute evaluation at the store.

-[Judy] Mhm.
-[Sarah] $100 for an hour evaluation,

I'm assuming, however much time
it takes to appraise.

Okay. Good.

What training or education did you have
when you started your business

in comics and trading cards?
I know a little bit about that

'cause one of my children was very
interested in trading cards for a while,

so I'm marginally aware of that.
What special training do you have

in appraisal of comic books,
trading cards?

I've owned my business for almost
six... over six years now.

-Well, that doesn't give you...
-Prior to that...

That doesn't give you
any training whatsoever.

What training did you have
when you opened your business?

I've worked for two publishers

-prior to owning my businesses.
-[Judy] Two... just a sec.

-What did you do for them?
-So you ask how I'm qualified to appraise.

So, one of my jobs with these
companies was to facilitate signings

with a grading company,
and I would facilitate these signings

to ensure the books were
very high grade that we would submit.

So, what you're telling me
is you did on-the-job training?

-Yes.
-[Judy] Okay.

The reason I ask that question
is because Mr. Romeral

had an extensive comic book collection,

which he decided that he wanted
to donate to charity.

And I assume take part of that off
as a deduction on your taxes, correct?

-That's correct, ma'am.
-[Judy] And according to your complaint,

-you had something like 1,700 comic books.
-Yes, ma'am, 1,766 comic books.

And you decided or your wife
decided that it was time

-to get rid of these from your house.
-[laughs]

[Judy] I don't know
who decided to get rid of them.

But if you wanted to donate them to
charity, which charity did you designate?

The charity was called The Book Truck Inc.

You're looking that up, right? Just for
my information, how did you get to them,

rather than the Heart Association,
the ASPCA, Stand Up To Cancer?

How did you get to Book Truck Inc.?

Yes, ma'am. So, how I came
to this, nonprofit organization

was a suggestion from the defendant,

'cause I had gone into his comic book
store looking to sell the comic books

-and he wasn't interested.
-[Judy] Okay.

-So you went in on what date to his...
-It was sometime in October, ma'am,

-I don't have the...
-[Judy] October of 2023?

-2022.
-Okay. You remember that?

[Andrew]
I recall him coming in... [stammers]

-...stating that he had a collection...
-[Judy shushes]

I don't... I... yes. I recall him. Yes.
-[Judy shushes]

-Yes, ma'am. [laughs]
-Did you have a lot of coffee today, sir?

I did. I actually... in the trailer,
yes, a lot of coffee.

You know, I could tell
you had a lot of coffee.

-[courtroom laughs]
-[Andrew] I did. I did.

[Judy] I could tell that you're really
over-coffeed. So you remember, Mr. Liegl,

that he came in looking to sell you
his comic book collection.

And you said you were not interested?

-Correct.
-[Judy] Okay. Then you did what?

[Manuel] Then, Your Honor, he suggested
that I donate the comic books

to a nonprofit organization
that he had worked with

called The Book Truck Inc.,
that was in Long Beach,

and he knew the founder and director,
her name was Elizabeth Dragga,

that's D-R-A-G-G-A.

-[Judy] So he suggested this charity?
-[Manuel] Yes, ma'am.

[Judy] Did he say how he was acquainted
with this charity, the person who ran it,

did you ask what it did?
What was its mission?

Yes, ma'am. I did ask him.

He said that he had donated books
on prior occasions to the organization.

And it's a teen advocacy, a nonprofit,
and what they do, Your Honor,

is they give books
and comic books to children and kids

-that are in underserved communities.
-Did you verify that?

-Yes, ma'am, I did.
-[Judy] Okay.

So The Book Truck is a... it says,

"It increases literacy skills among foster
care, homeless, and low-income teens

in order to create a pathway
out of poverty."

-They're given books...
-They're given comic books? In...

-Well, all different kinds...
-Just a sec. Let me just understand this.

They're giving comic books to young people
to create a pathway out of poverty?

-[Sarah] Well, it doesn't...
-I just...

-[Sarah] ...specifically say comic books.
-No, no. Uh, could you...

-It doesn't specifically say comic books.
-[Judy] Say it to me...

say it to me one more time.
I have to absorb this.

Okay. "The Book Truck
increases literacy skills

among foster care, homeless,
and low-income teens

in order to create a pathway
out of poverty."

-It's not only comic books.
-No, no, I understand that.

But he's suggesting the donation of


They don't specify what type of books
they accept, I guess.

Yeah, but he was recommending
comic books...

-Yes, ma'am.
-[Judy] ...for this mission...

-Yes, ma'am.
-[Judy] ...to help people out of poverty?

-[Manuel] Yes, ma'am. And I did do my own...
-Okay. I... just a second.

-I'm absorbing it all.
-[Manuel chuckles]

It's all coming this way.

-[courtroom laughs]
-[theme music]

Before I brought the comic books
to Mr. Liegl here,

I did ask Ms. Dragga
if he was trustworthy.

-[Judy] Now, I don't... listen.
-[Manuel] Yes, ma'am.

-You were a lieutenant...
-[Manuel] Yes, ma'am.

...and you're trying to introduce
hearsay into a trial?

[theme music]

[announcer] Manuel Romeral claims
comic book store owner Andrew Liegl

stole comic books
instead of donating them to charity.

Andrew is countersuing
for an unpaid appraisal fee.

[Judy] Okay. Mr. Liegl,
who do you know in Book Truck Inc.?

-So... so my...
-[Judy shushes] That's a name.

Yes, Elizabeth... Elizabeth as well.

-[Judy] Elizabeth what?
-Dragga.

-How do you know her?
-[Andrew] When the pandemic hit in 2020,

I decided to reach out to a charity
to try and work with during that time,

-explained to her what I did, and...
-[Judy] What do you do?

Own a comic book store. And essentially,
I also learned how to read through comics,

and I'm a pretty good reader.
So I kind of believe in this.

But anyway, we worked
with them back in 2020

and we worked with
my customers and myself.

My store donated a whole lot of books

and our customers came in
and donated their own collections.

-During this time, I did win...
-[Judy] Put that very sweet thing down.

I would just like to point out, ma'am,

this started by you questioning my
character, and I just wanted to point out

by saying I was recognized
by the County of Los Angeles,

Kathryn Barger, for my work
with The Book Truck in 2020.

-Just based on how much we donated.
-[laughs] Okay. Very good.

-[courtroom laughs]
-Now let's get back to the hustle.

[Judy] Okay. So now, you bring
your comics, 1,700 of them,

-to the defendant's place of business.
-I didn't do that right away, ma'am.

I did a little bit of research,
given my background.

I contacted Ms. Dragga, and I spoke
to her, and I wanted to find out

more about her organization
and what it was trying to achieve.

And I liked the message,
I liked her mission,

-so I decided that's where I wanted my...
-[Judy] You spoke to her on the phone?

-Yes, ma'am.
-[Judy] So you spoke to Elizabeth.

-[Manuel] Yes, ma'am.
-[Judy] Now,

on what date did you bring
your comic books to Mr. Liegl?

That was on January the 19th, ma'am.

[Judy] And what he was supposed
to do is give you an appraisal

so that you could take that off your taxes

and he was supposed to send
the comic books to Book Truck Inc.?

That's correct. And there's a little bit
more to that, though, ma'am.

Well, what's more to it?

[Manuel] Well, before I brought
the comic books to Mr. Liegl here,

I did ask Ms. Dragga
if he was trustworthy.

-Now, I don't... listen.
-[Manuel] Yes, ma'am.

-You can't tell me... you were a lieutenant?
-[Manuel] Yes, ma'am.

And you're trying to introduce
hearsay into a trial?

-Yes, ma'am.
-Okay.

So before I took the comic books in,
I went to Mr. Liegl, the defendant,

and I told him that I needed
a written appraisal for the collection

-per my tax accountant.
-[Judy] Of course.

Your accountant said,
"You need an appraisal."

He said, "I'll do an appraisal."

And Mr. Liegl said
that he would do it for free.

[Judy]
Fine. And?

[Manuel] But he wouldn't
give me a written appraisal.

He said, "I don't do written stuff."

[Judy]
But you advertise, sir, on your website,

that you do appraisals
and how much you charge for them.

-What's the point of doing appraisals?
-I didn't say that.

[Judy]
Okay. He brought you the comic books?

-[Andrew] Yes.
-[Judy] Great.

-Did you give him an appraisal?
-Yes.

-[Judy] Written?
-Yes.

-I initialed all of it.
-Show me.

[Manuel] Your Honor, if I may interject,
that appraisal, I did that.

-[Judy] Just a minute.
-And there's a story behind it.

-[Judy] Just a second.
-[Manuel] Yes, ma'am.

He's gonna show me something.

What do you mean you did this?
This is on his stationery.

I understand that, ma'am, but I'm
the one that wrote up the appraisal

because he wouldn't do one,
and we discussed it,

and what we agreed to
is that I would write the cover letter

because that's what my
tax accountant asked for.

-[chuckles]
-[Manuel] And I told the defendant

I could take the information off of
his website, which he agreed to.

And then I itemized every single
comic book per the accountant.

I then asked the defendant,
"Well, what source should I use?"

And he said to use this guide

which I went out and purchased.
This is the Bible in the comic book...

[Judy]
Great. So you prepared this,

he initialed each page
that it's coming from an appraiser,

you did it, you were going to
present this to your accountant...

-Yes, ma'am.
-...as proof

of how much money your collection was
for the purposes of your deduction?

-Yes, ma'am.
-[Judy] Okay.

And this was done 01/19/2023.
And what was the total?

It was $16,709.

[Judy] Okay. And did you give
that to your accountant?

-Yes, I did, ma'am.
-[Judy] Okay.

-And your accountant's name is what?
-[Manuel] His name is David.

[Judy]
Great. When did you give it to him?

-Just recently when we did our taxes.
-[Judy] Okay. Just recently,

-'cause you prepared your taxes.
-Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am.

He probably has not returned your taxes
to you, to send away, or has he?

-He has, Your Honor.
-[Judy] He has.

-You have a copy of those?
-No, I do not.

[Judy] Okay. So, now,
what I'd like you to tell me

-is what's the problem?
-[Manuel] Well, the problem, ma'am,

is when we agreed on the value of
the collection, I told the defendant...

-[Judy] Just a second.
-[Manuel] Yes, ma'am.

[Judy]
You're suing him for $5,554,

because he took some
of your comics from your collection.

-Yes, ma'am.
-[Judy] That's what you claim.

How much money
did you take off of your taxes,

if he gave you an appraisal of $16,700,

how much did you allege
that you donated to charity?

[Manuel]
The amount was $11,093

is what was submitted for a charitable
contribution, Your Honor.

Well, that's by your accountant,
but you had an appraisal for 16,700.

-I sent the modified version of it.
-Who modified it?

[Manuel] I modified it by
crossing out the comic books

that would not be part of that appraisal,
because they were missing.

You're gonna have to show me that.

[Manuel] I have it right here, Your Honor.

-You have what?
-[Manuel] This is the revised appraisal,

that makes a notation that the donation
does not have the full 1,766 comic books.

That I was only able to recover

-from the defendant...
-[Judy] Just a second.

-[Manuel] Yes, ma'am.
-What do you mean recover?

-You mean you took them back?
-A portion of them, ma'am.

What did you do with them?

I donated those
to a charitable cause, ma'am,

which, as I indicated before, it was 1,318
comic books that I was able to donate.

-What charitable cause, sir?
-The Book Truck, Inc.

-[Judy] You donated them to Elizabeth.
-Yes, ma'am.

[Judy] Now, you have no objection
to my calling your accountant, do you?

-No, ma'am.
-[Judy] And your accountant will tell me

that the amount that they took
as a charitable deduction was not 16,700.

-How much was it?
-The amount, ma'am, was $11,093.

[Judy] And that $11,093
is what David is going to tell me

-he took off your taxes.
-[Manuel] Yes, ma'am.

And he took off your taxes
based upon a modified appraisal.

-Yes, ma'am.
-I'd like to see the modified appraisal.

I have that right here.

-Give her David's number.
-Yes, ma'am.

[Judy] Sarah, you're gonna take him
in the back for a minute. Take him.

When you get David on the phone,

he's gonna tell David
that you can speak to him.

I wanna find out
what he took off on his taxes.

-Okay.
-Just ask him the amount. Go in the back.

[theme music]

I offered to donate
to resolve the situation

the missing quantity of comics in equal
value and he refused. In his name.

[chuckles] High on life.
High on coffee. Long on hustle.

[courtroom laughs]

[theme music]

[announcer] Manuel Romeral has accused
comic book store owner Andrew Liegl

of stealing comic books
instead of donating them to charity.

Andrew is countersuing Manuel
for an unpaid appraisal fee.

-[Judy] Okay.
-[Sarah] So she was able to help me,

the secretary.
She said it did not breakdown...

I asked specifically
about the comic book collection,

not any of his other charitable donations.

She said it wasn't
broken down in that way,

that she only has the final number of all
of the charitable donations for the year.

But that number that she gave me was


-Great.
-...the plaintiff said.

Okay. So now the ball is back
in your court Mr. High-on-Life-and-Coffee.

[courtroom laughs]

[Judy]
So let me tell you what this shows me.

This shows me that you gave him
an appraisal and signed off on it

as to what comic books
you were taking into your custody

for the purposes of this charity.

When he finally got
his comic books to Elizabeth,

there were comic books missing.
Her name is on the attached list

of what comic books were
missing from the collection.

Now, I want you to understand

that I do not believe that this man took
comic books out of his own collection.

So, it would lead a person
of marginal intelligence,

which I like to think I have,
that somewhere between the initial 1,700

and what was ultimately
given to Elizabeth,

who signed off on the revised appraisal,
were few hundred less.

-What happened to them?
-So...

Not a "so". Just tell me
what happened to them.

So, he dropped them off
at the end of January of 2023,

the appraisal was done,
he left them there.

At that point in time,
I make contacts with Elizabeth

and we cannot get in touch
with each other.

-She actually had an incorrect email...
-[Judy shushes]

-[Andrew] And at that time...
-Please tell me

what happened to his comic books.

I had to move my entire storage space
in my unit out of my store.

-[Judy] You moved all of your inventory.
-Everything. Our donations, everything.

[shushes] You moved
everything out of your store.

-[Andrew] Correct. We have a lot to store.
-[shushes]

-And?
-We moved it into our storage space.

-And?
-[Andrew] It sat there for ten months

until I went and retrieved it
for Manuel to get.

[Judy]
But some were missing.

-[Andrew] So he claims there are.
-[Judy] Just a second.

There were. Elizabeth vouches
for the fact that they were missing.

-What happened to the other comic books?
-I cannot confirm. So what happened,

-we had to rebox every...
-[Judy] Okay. Well, if you can't...

-Ma'am, we had to rebox everything.
-If you can't confirm

what happened to the comic books
that will help people get out of poverty,

then those were given to you
and you are responsible for them.

If you put them in a storage space,
rebox them, regroup them,

or forgot who they belong to,
some of the expensive ones,

and maybe one of your employees

decided that they wanted
to be lifted out of poverty,

-so they lifted the comic books.
-[courtroom laughs]

But this is, in effect, a bailment.

You have a responsibility to say
where those comic books went to, sir.

And I contacted him
to have them picked up,

I contacted Elizabeth
to have them picked up,

and I was being threatened by my landlord,

I would be evicted if I didn't get
that stuff out of my space.

-I don't...
-I just want you to tell me.

-So you got it out of your space...
-We did.

-[Judy] ...Elizabeth got some...
-And at that point...

Just a minute. Elizabeth got some of them.

-A substantial number were missing.
-[Andrew] In September...

-Ma'am, ma'am...
-[Judy] What happened...

...these were dropped off
at my store in January.

I did not hear from him until June.

[Judy] Who cares? That doesn't tell me
what happened to the comic books.

I made multiple efforts to get them out...

we had to unbox them, put them
in small... it's... everything.

I was being threatened of being evicted

-if we didn't clear it out.
-[Judy] Just a second.

I asked you what happened
to his comic books.

They were moved from my business
into our storage unit.

And so the answer is
you don't know what happened to them.

They were donated.

[Judy] No, not according to Elizabeth,
not all of them. Either they were lost,

-stolen, eaten by trolls...
-[courtroom laughs]

[Judy] ...you don't know,
Elizabeth is lying... Pick from the menu.

Your Honor, I made... when Manuel
returned to my store in June of 2023,

it was a very aggressive exchange.

I offered to donate to resolve the
situation out of my own stock

the missing quantity of comics in equal
value and he refused in his name.

[chuckles] High on life.
High on coffee. Long on hustle.

What's the difference in the value,
Mr. Romeral, of the comic books?

Is that what you're suing for?
Based upon his appraisal.

-Yes, ma'am. $5,500...
-[Judy] $5,554.

Yes, ma'am.

You have a counter...
[chuckles] a counterclaim,

-money owed for an unpaid appraisal fee.
-Correct.

[Judy] There was no contract
for an appraisal fee. Is that correct?

If there is,
I'd like you to show it to me.

[Andrew] The appraisal fee was waived
as the intent was for this to be donated.

-[Judy] Well...
-Another thing I...

[Judy] You know,
once something is waived, it's dead.

Counterclaim is dismissed.
Judgment for the plaintiff. A little bit.

-[Judy] $5,554.
-Your Honor...

[Judy]
Judgment for the plaintiff. We're done.

-Thank you, ma'am.
-[Judy] Thank you.

-[Kevin] This court is adjourned.
-[theme music]

-I don't agree with it.
-A wonderful decision. I feel vindicated.

Something that was wrong
was made right today.

He left his stuff abandoned after multiple
contacts to come and pick it up

and I don't know why
I'm held accountable for this.

I knew... There's something wrong here,

and he's taken advantage of me
and the charity.

I felt a little bamboozled, like I did a
free appraisal and now he's getting cash,

it's kind of backwards to me honestly.
I think this is truly an example,

if any small business owners are watching
this, truly, no good deed goes unpunished.

Get everything in writing
and get that contract.

The truth always comes out,
thanks to Judge Judy.

Kiddo, that's really a good thing,
like donating your car.

I mean, he could've sold the comic books,
he's retired, she's retired,

they could go to fairs...

-[Sarah] Yes.
-...and sell the comic books.

Decided, get them
out of the house, she said,

-"Get these things out of the house." And...
-[laughs] Mhm.

Still not right to be misrepresented,
you know, the charity,

when they think
they're getting this portion,

and I was glad... I think I was making
the call when you were reviewing

-the revised appraisal that Elizabeth...
-That Elizabeth...

-[Sarah] ...had signed off on.
-...signed off on.

Sure. But I'm glad that he went through
that trouble to have her sign off.

And once we came back
and all the numbers cleared out,

it was very honest of him
to not claim the 16,000

-off on his taxes, which he could have...
-Actually could've done.

...with the initial appraisal.
He said, "That's not right.

I know that these are missing. Some
of the higher value ones are missing."

Went to Elizabeth, the charity owner,
went over it with her,

that must have taken a lot of time,
had her initial each one, and ultimately,

only submitted to his accountant
what he honestly donated.

So good for him
and I think the right thing happened.

Me, too.

[announcer] Want justice?


[theme music]