03x112 - No Bread for the Breadwinner

[bunniefuu]

- [Judy] So you were cooking tacos?
- Mhm.

You started to yell
'cause he was getting his food first?

I was raised that in my house
the ladies eat first before men.

[Daniel]
That's when her mom started trippin'.

This woman punched me in my face twice.

- He supported your family?
- Yes.

[Judy]
You were eating tacos that he bought?

- Yeah, but...
- That might've entitled him

- to take his food first.
- [announcer] This is Judy Justice.

[theme music]

[announcer] Daniel Denham is suing
his ex-girlfriend, Tamra Hofbauer,

and her daughter, Danaya Outlaw,

for an unpaid loan, unauthorized debit
card charges, and a false arrest.

[Kevin]
Court come to order. All rise.

Have a seat, please.

Judge, case 3177,
Denham versus Hofbauer and Outlaw.

- Thank you.
- You're welcome.

- You're last name is?
- [Tamra] Hofbauer.

- [Judy] That's your daughter?
- Yes.

- [Judy] Seventeen?
- Yes.

[Judy]
Mr. Denham, you first met Ms. Hofbauer,

according to your complaint,
years ago, is that correct?

- Yes.
- [Judy] And that was in Minnesota?

- Yes, it was.
- [Judy] Where you were both living?

- Yeah.
- How old are you, sir?

[Daniel]
Thirty-one, ma'am.

- [Judy] And how old are you?
- Forty.

- [Judy] You have three children?
- Yes.

- How old are they?
- It's 15, 17, and 19.

[Judy] How old were you
when you met the defendant?

- Nineteen.
- [Judy] And how old were you?

- I was 30, 31.
- [Judy] Doesn't all add up but close.

And you had a physical relationship,

- is that right?
- Yes.

- [Judy] Then you moved to California?
- Yes.

[Judy]
In what year did you move to California?

I moved out of town first and then
I later moved to California right after,

but that was about, like,
eight years into that.

Okay. And then somehow you
and Ms. Hofbauer reconnected.

- When was that?
- [Daniel] That was around...

it was like November of 2022. It was
the year of 2022, I know that for sure.

I'm not quite sure of the date
but it was in...

- You reconnected how, on the internet?
- Yes.

[Judy] And according to what I read,
you became close again,

and you decided that you would
move back to Minnesota

where Ms. Hofbauer lived
with her three children?

- [Daniel] Mhm.
- [Judy] Is that right?

Only under the conditions
of what I was doing for her, of course.

All I've made was a stark statement

which was you decided to go back
to live in Minnesota

with Ms. Hofbauer and her three children?

- My apologies, yes.
- [Judy] And she didn't have any money.

She had lost a job, she says,
she was struggling financially.

Where were you living, Ms. Hofbauer,

when you were having this
internet romance with the plaintiff?

- In 2022, I...
- [Judy] No.

- Oh.
- [Judy] Just answer my question.

- Where were you living?
- [Tamra] In my car.

- [Judy] With your three children?
- Yes.

[Judy] So you sent her $6,200
in order to find a place to live

for herself, the three children,
and you were going to join them?

That's the story that I'm getting,
is that right?

Yes. And it was also to fix her car, too.

But you sent $6,200, and you do not deny
that he sent you $6,200?

- Nope.
- [Judy] No is the answer.

And with that $6,200,
you found a place to live,

- a rental.
- Yes.

[Judy] You put down month's rent,
month's security, last month.

- How much was it that you put down?
- $3,500.

And what did you do
with the rest of the $6,200?

I fixed my car. I needed...

- [Judy] Just a second.
- I'm sorry.

- You fixed your car...
- [Tamra] Yup. I fixed my car...

- [Judy] Yes.
- ...and bought household... like,

some furniture and household items
I needed.

In what month and year did you move
to Minnesota, Mr. Denham?

October 27th of 2023.

[Judy] And in what month did you get
the apartment, was that also in October?

It was before that. It was in August
is when I moved in to my apartment.

- [Judy] The apartment he paid for?
- Mhm.

- [Judy] Yeah. So you moved in August 1st?
- [Tamra] Yup.

- Yup is not an answer.
- [Tamra] Oops, I'm...

- Yes. Yes.
- [Judy] Yes is an answer.

And he joined you

- a couple of months later?
- Yes.

- [Judy] You were working in California?
- Yes.

[Judy]
What kind of work were you doing?

I was working for a company called
ConGlobal. It's a car shipping port.

I was shipping Teslas.

Did you have a job
waiting for you in Minnesota?

Yes, I did, but it fell through,
but I later ended up getting a new job.

- [Judy] In Minnesota?
- Yeah.

[Judy]
So you were there the end of October

and you were there the month
of November, living together,

- and the month of December?
- [Daniel] Yes.

[Judy] On December 31st, which is
New Year's Eve, you were cooking?

- Yes.
- [Judy] What were you cooking?

- I was cooking tacos.
- [Judy] For whom?

For the family.

[Judy]
Had you gotten a job, Ms. Hofbauer?

- The answer is either a yes... or a no.
- [Tamra] No. No.

[Judy] So you did not have a job from
the time you moved in to the apartment

- until December 31st?
- Yes.

- [Judy] Is that correct?
- Yes.

And Mr. Denham was supporting you
and your three children,

because prior to Mr. Denham,

- you were living in your car.
- Yes.

- [Judy] All that is true?
- Yes.

- So, you were cooking tacos?
- [Danaya] Yes.

- [Judy] And what happened?
- Okay. So, the meat had just got done.

- [Judy] Just a second.
- Mhm.

- You were cooking tacos...
- [Danaya] Yeah.

- ... and what happened?
- And he got up to get his food first.

- [Judy] To get his food first?
- [Danaya] Yes.

- [Judy] And?
- I had felt some type of way.

You speak slowly so that I can hear you.

I had felt some type of way
when he got up to get his food first,

- because...
- What did she just say?

- What did she say?
- She felt some type of way

- when he got up first to get his food...
- [Judy] What kind of way... don't speak.

What kind of way did you feel when
Mr. Denham got up to get his food first

and I want you to speak slowly
so I don't have to use an interpreter.

[Danaya]
I felt like... aggregated.

Like... because, like, I felt like
he shouldn't got his food first, like...

- [Judy] That he should not have?
- No. Because I was raised...

I mean, I was raised that in my house
the ladies eat first before men,

that's how I was raised.

And I had felt some type of way
when he got his food first.

- Okay. So you were annoyed of the...
- [Danaya] Mhm.

- ...some type of way?
- Yup.

- [Judy] An unhappy type of way?
- [Danaya] Mhm. Mhm.

An unhappy type of way
when he went to get his food first,

- right?
- Mhm.

- Uh-huh is not an answer.
- [Danaya] Yes.

- Yes is an answer.
- [theme music]

She ended up actually calling the cops.

- Did you speak to the police that day?
- Yes.

Well, you just told me a story,

then the first couple of lines
of the police report are different.

- 'Cause...
- From the police... I'm just telling you.

- Yes.
- [Judy] The first few lines

of the police report are different.

[theme music]

[announcer] Daniel Denham claims
his ex-girlfriend, Tamra Hofbauer,

and her daughter, Danaya Outlaw,

owed for an unpaid loan
and unauthorized debit card charges.

Tamra is countersuing Daniel
for an as*ault.

Okay. So what did you do? What did you do?

I walked away after and then he started
arguing with my mom.

[Judy]
No, no, no, no. You said something.

Look at me.
Turn your body around. Look at me.

What did you say to him
when he got up to get his food first?

I said, "You shouldn't be able
to get your food first."

And then I said,
"You shouldn't be able to"...

I was yelling. I was mad,
I was like telling him, like...

[Judy]
You were yelling and you were bad.

- Mhm.
- [Judy] Just a sec. That's better.

- [Danaya] Mhm.
- 'Cause it's like I was there, right?

- [Danaya] Yes. Yeah.
- Like, I have a camera inside.

So you started to yell at Mr. Denham
because he was getting his food first?

- Yes.
- I wanna ask you this question.

You had now lived in the household
with Mr. Denham for two months?

Yes.

Had you ever heard your mother
and Mr. Denham arguing?

- Yes.
- [Judy] What did they argue about?

- Money.
- What was the argument about?

[Danaya]
It was about him trying to say

that my mom has to give all the money
that he gave to my mom back to him.

Okay. So then they were arguing
about this $6,200?

- Yes.
- [Judy] That he said,

- "You have to give that back to me."
- [Danaya] Yes.

- And your mom said?
- My mom said that she's... Denham...

[Judy] No, no, no. Think, he said,
"You have to give that money back to me."

- [Danaya] Yes.
- And your mom said what?

- No.
- [Judy] No.

And that's what they argued about?

- Mhm. Yes.
- [Judy] Yes.

So now, you're telling him that
he's got to wait to eat dinner?

- [Danaya] Yes.
- And you were yelling at him?

- [Danaya] Yes.
- [Judy] You yelled at him first?

- [Danaya] Yes.
- [Judy] And then what happened?

[exhales] After I yelled at him,
he went to the bed to sit back down,

like, to eat his food

and then that's when my mom
stepped in to defend me

'cause he was still arguing with me.

- [Judy] Just a second.
- Mhm.

- He sat down...
- [Danaya] Yup.

- ...on the bed to eat his food?
- Yup. Yes.

[Judy] And then your mother came out
and he's sitting eating his food?

- Yes.
- And what did your mother say to him?

Nothing, 'cause, like, he was still...
we were still arguing.

Me and him were still arguing.

What were you...
what were you arguing about?

- He was eating.
- [Danaya] He was eating and he also said

that he spent $50,000 on me, by myself.
That's what made me really mad,

because I don't like
when people throw money in my face

and then he was trying
to throw money in my face,

trying to say he spent all the money on me
and he never spent nothing on me.

Well, you were living
in a house he paid for.

- You were eating tacos that he bought.
- [Danaya] Yeah, but...

[Judy]
You were living in Minnesota in December,

where it's very cold
and he was paying for the heat, right?

- Yes.
- [Judy] You were driving around

in a car that wasn't working
that your mother had fixed

- with his money.
- [Danaya] Yes.

[Judy]
All of those things are true, right?

- Yes.
- [Judy] Okay.

That might've entitled him
to take his food first.

So he's sitting and eating,
your mother comes over to defend you

because you're yelling at him
about he's taking his food.

- Yes.
- [Judy] And then what happened?

And then after that,
him and my mom started arguing.

Okay. Was he still sitting on the bed

- eating his food?
- [Danaya] Yes.

[Judy] So, he's sitting.
Is your mother standing or sitting?

- She's sitting on the bed, too.
- [Judy] So, she's sitting on the bed,

and she's yelling at him
and you're yelling at him?

[Danaya] Mhm. And then I went in my room
and then I let them argue.

And then they were both yelling and that's

when they got... I don't know
what happened,

because I didn't see him slap my mom
really like that. I went in my room

and then he slapped my mom
and then that's when I came out there.

[Judy]
But you said you didn't see that.

- [Danaya] No. I didn't really see, like...
- Just a second.

- [Danaya] Mhm.
- You said, "I didn't see that."

No. I went in my room, like... and, like,
after, like, I heard...like,

after, like, I heard a little bit of it...

after I heard a little bit of what was
going on, I ran back out there.

And, like, that's when I ran out there
to call the police. I ran in the hallway.

I called the police and he ran after me
and he snatched my phone on my hand

and hung up the phone and said,
"Don't call the police."

- And?
- [Danaya] And then I ran in...

and then after that I ran
into the neighbor's house

and called the police for them to come,
because he was trying to take my phone

and said, "Don't call the police,"
when he slapped my mom.

- You didn't see that.
- No.

[Judy]
No. Somebody have a police report?

- [Tamra] I do.
- [Judy] I'd like to see it.

You have the district attorney's
dismissal of your case?

- [Daniel] I wasn't able to obtain it.
- Okay. But it's over?

- [Daniel] Yeah.
- Your case is over? It was never tried?

- Did you speak to the police that day?
- Yes.

[Judy]
Well, you just told me a story,

then the first couple of lines
of the police report are different.

- 'Cause...
- [Judy] From the police...

- I'm just telling you.
- Yes.

The first few lines
of the police report are different.

You said you were raised
that a man doesn't take his food first.

They eat last.

That's what you just told me, correct?
She can read that back.

- That's why Whitney is here.
- [Danaya] Yes.

[Judy] You told the police that you argued
about how much food he took to eat.

How much food. Not that he went first.
So that wasn't true, right?

Yes. Yes.

[Judy]
Well, this police report is interesting.

It says that you got involved
in this argument

and you poked him in the chest
and punched him in the right eye.

- That's what the police report says.
- No, I did not.

[Judy]
That's what the police report says.

And then he slapped you on the left side
of your face with his right hand.

That's what the police report says.
Is that what happened, sir?

- [Daniel] No.
- Well, you wanna tell me what happened?

I'm gonna tell you exactly
what happened, Your Honor.

Well, that's what I wanna hear,
exactly what happened.

I was cooking the food since the
beginning. Danaya was nowhere to be found.

I don't even know where she was at
at the time I was cooking.

- You mean the daughter?
- [Daniel] Yeah. The daughter.

It was eight pounds of meat.

It was me, her, Danaya, Samantha,
and the other teenage daughter, Danaya.

Cooking the food. Just cooking it.
It's done. No one's trying to eat.

I even said it was done.

I scooped up my food, one taco,
sat down and started eating.

She goes in there, scrapes the pot, "Damn,
Dino, why you eating up all the food?"

- [Judy] Who said that?
- The daughter.

Then she starts going off,
telling me demands.

Telling me I need to get
the [...] out of her house

- or I'm calling the cops.
- [Judy] Is that what you said to him?

- Yes, it is.
- Shh. Is that what you said to him?

- Yes.
- [Judy] Okay. And?

[Daniel] Or she's calling the cops.
And she started calling the cops.

So I'm like, "What are you doing?
Why are you calling the cops?

I'm not going anywhere. I've been paying
all the bills, this, that, and the other."

She just kept on going and she ended up
actually calling the cops.

And I'm telling her, "Get off the phone.
What are you doing?"

That's when her mom started jumping
in the conversation. She started tripping.

And once I brought up that I had just
helped you guys out from being stranded,

- this woman punched me in my face twice.
- [Judy] You let go of her hand.

[Daniel]
I wasn't even trying to smack her.

I was trying to like, block her
from punching me,

and I guess the block was like a smack
to her. But I didn't smack her.

- Okay.
- [Daniel] It was like my fingertips

- nicked her.
- Whatever.

- She put her hands on you first?
- Yes.

That's what it says in the police report.

[theme music]

Who was cooking? Careful what
you say to me. Just be real careful.

- Because you got here from Minnesota.
- Yes.

[Judy] I assume you wanna
get back to Minnesota.

- Yes.
- [Judy] You lie to me,

you don't get back to Minnesota
on my dime. You understand that?

- Got you.
- Who was cooking?

[theme music]

[announcer] Daniel Denham has accused
his ex-girlfriend, Tamra Hofbauer,

and her daughter, Danaya Outlaw,
of owing for an unpaid loan

and unauthorized debit card charges.
Tamra claims Daniel assaulted her.

Now, you were arrested. Charges were
dismissed. Ultimately, that case is over.

- Am I correct?
- Yes.

[Judy]
This is what you're suing for.

And I'm not even asking you.
I asked your daughter.

So I'm not gonna ask you about the event.
I'm just gonna ask you as follows.

It is true that August, September,
October, November, and December

- he supported your family?
- Yes.

[Judy] It is? That would be true.
And if I believe your daughter...

if I believed your daughter, which
I don't, it would have been rude of her,

- rude of her...
- [Tamra] Yes.

[Judy] ...to say to him, "What are
you doing eating that food first?"

- Yes.
- [Judy] Would've been rude of her.

- Yes.
- And when she came to get you,

did she come to get you
or did you hear her?

I was in the living room. I was out there.

- [Judy] Okay. So you were there?
- Mhm.

- Yup. I saw everything, yes.
- So you heard what happened?

Your daughter was rude to the man who was
taking care of you and your family.

- He hadn't been rude to you.
- Yes, he was.

Tell me when he was rude to you
on December 31st.

He was rude earlier... all day that day.
He's had a attitude the whole day.

[Judy] Okay. Now, when the police
arrested you, how long were you held?

- I was held for three days.
- [Judy] Three days?

- From December 31st through January 3rd?
- Yes.

[Judy] And it is your claim
that in addition to the $6,200,

which your daughter actually
acknowledged was a loan,

because you had been asked to repay it
over the entire course of him living there

- and that's what you fought about. Look...
- [pen thumping]

[Judy] Look at me. That's what they fought
about, your mother returning the money

that he had sent her
to get started with her children.

- They fought about that.
- Yes.

- [Judy] That's what you said before.
- Yes.

[Judy] Now, between December 31st
and January 3rd when you were released,

were there charges made
on your credit card?

Yeah. They spent all my money.

[Judy] Just a second.
Well, I would like to see that.

[Daniel] I also filed a police report
about my stolen wallet.

[Judy]
Just a second.

So now I'm gonna ask you
a couple of questions, Ms. Hofbauer,

between December 31st and January 3rd,

did you take any money or use any property
that belonged to the plaintiff?

- I did. I had his permission.
- [Judy] Just a second.

- The answer is yes?
- Yes. Yes. Yup. Yes.

And I assume you had
no communication with him

- while he was in jail.
- [Tamra] No.

[Judy] So you didn't have
permission to take that money?

- Can I say something?
- [Judy] You had no...

- you had no permission to take that...
- [Tamra] I did though.

I had his card before
and I already had that card.

[Judy]
Whether you had his card before or not...

He gave me his card a couple days
before that. That card was in my wallet.

And I also have text messages
asking his dad to come get his stuff,

his wallet, like, "Come pick it up."

Nobody stole his wallet,
'cause there was a OFP...

Shh.

- Who are you?
- Samantha Neely.

What do you have to do with this case?

I was there the night of the argument
and the as*ault and pretty much a witness,

- 'cause I'm over with...
- Was she there?

- Yeah. She was there.
- [Judy] Mhm. Okay.

Now, I want you to be real careful.
Do you understand?

- [Samantha] Yes.
- Really careful. You can stand up.

Who was cooking?
Who... careful what you say to me.

- Just be real careful.
- Dino.

- Because you got here from Minnesota.
- Yes.

[Judy]
I assume you wanna get back to Minnesota.

- Yes.
- [Judy] You lie to me,

you don't get back to Minnesota
on my dime. You understand that?

- Got you.
- Who was cooking?

- Dino.
- [Judy] Point.

He was cooking. So far, we're doing okay.
And when he was finished cooking,

he took his food
and went over to sit down where?

Onto the mattress in the living room.

Okay. Now, when he took his food,
what did she say to him?

She yelled out loud, "You're taking too
much food. You shouldn't eat first.

- Kids and ladies should eat first."
- And what did he answer?

He answered,
"There's enough to feed everybody."

[Judy]
There was nothing wrong with that, right?

- Right.
- [Judy] Right.

When did she tell him
to get out of their house?

- Right then and there.
- [Judy] Right then and there?

He said, "There's enough
to feed everybody," right?

- [Samantha] Right.
- [Judy] And she said,

- "Get out of my house."
- Correct.

[Judy]
Now, you can sit down.

You can go home to Minnesota.

You see the witness says you're a liar.
You understand that, don't you? Huh?

- Yes.
- [Judy] Your witness. $6,200.

How much was withdrawn in total,
Mr. Denham, while you were incarcerated?

- 1,400. 2,300. 1,300.
- Did you finally get a job?

- Yes.
- [Judy] When?

- A month... two months ago.
- [Judy] Two months ago.

- That would be?
- [Sarah] February.

February. Well, the meal ticket was gone.
Gotta get a job. Okay. 7,623.

Counterclaim is dismissed.
We're done. Goodbye.

- [Kevin] This court is adjourned.
- [theme music]

Man, I'm just tired of dealing with it.
I'm just glad it's over with.

Justice is gonna always prevail, man,

and the truth is gonna
come out regardless, so...

I cared about them. You know what I'm
saying? I had real love for 'em, you know?

I didn't wanna have 'em out here
suffering. I got history with them.

So it just k*lled me that
they betrayed me like that

and try to screw me over
and think they're gonna get away with it.

I'm gonna get a restraining order. Like,
I'm... I don't wanna ever see 'em again.

They definitely bit the hand that fed 'em.

- That little girl was some piece of work.
- Oh, yeah. Not so little. Seventeen.

- [Judy] She's 17 but...
- A year away from being a legal adult.

Yeah. Some piece of work.

- When I saw how this went...
- Mhm.

...I felt sorry for him.

- [Sarah] Yeah.
- I felt sorry for him.

And he spent three days in jail.

Yeah. And you could tell,
just at 17, you know,

that frontal lobe
is not fully developed yet.

And you knew the situation.
You knew you weren't paying the bills.

You knew your sister
wasn't paying the bills.

You knew your mother
wasn't paying the bills.

And so to pop off
because you felt some type of way

about the order in which
you ate dinner that he paid for,

you know, was just so shortsighted
and just proves her immaturity,

- so, you know...
- [Judy] Yeah.

...not much you could do,
but I'm glad he got his money back.

Could you imagine

- what our household would look like...
- [Sarah chuckles]

...if I yelled every time
Poppy ate his food first?

- Oh, no, Poppy always eats first.
- [Judy laughs] Poppy always eats first.

- Yup. And sometimes all of it.
- [laughs] I'd say... right.

[announcer] Are you having
a family dispute?

[theme music]