[RO] Ooooo...
Let's do this.
[RIVER G] Wow, okay.
So, what?
Should I put
the padding first?
-Yeah.
-Okay.
Did you buy this?
-No, this is a rental.
-Oh, this is a rental?
-Just like a fat suit rental?
-Yeah.
[RO] I'm so glad
you're putting that on.
-Me too.
-(laughter)
[RO] This is really giving you
the shape.
It's like Pat's shape
is a refrigerator's shape.
(laughs)
-[RIVER G] Transforming.
-Can you loosen this up?
-Really?
[RO] I think 'cause
they're referring
to Julia Sweeney's gender,
maybe?
[RIVER G] What has she
said about this?
Didn't she create him?
[RO] Yeah, and she maintains
that Pat is not
like trans or gender
non-conforming or anything.
Pat is just Pat.
And that Pat knows
what gender Pat is
and that it's a binary gender.
[RIVER G] That's weird.
(laughter)
[RIVER G] Pat is q*eer.
(laughs)
For sure.
Because even if, like,
they were binary
one way or the other,
there's something
inherently q*eer about this.
(laughs)
(audience laughing)
Hello.
(audience applauds)
My goodness, how peculiar.
A lot of people say,
"What's that?"
It's Pat.
A lot of people ask,
"Who's he?"
"Or she?"
A ma'am or a sir,
accept him or her
For whatever it might be.
It's time for androgyny.
Here comes Pat.
[RO] I think if I had told
my ten-year-old self
that 30 years later
I'd be making
a movie about Pat
I wouldn't have believed it.
-(crashing noise)
-Whoa!
Ahhh!
-So sorry.
-(laughing)
That's really good.
[RO] But well, here I am.
Surrounded by Pats.
And... action.
(whimsical music plays)
[RO] My obsession with Pat
began in the early 90s on SNL.
(laughing)
I'm Pat.
[RO] Pat was nerdy, chunky,
wore a Western shirt
and was indecipherable
as a man or a woman.
Pat, did you hear about
our Halloween party?
Oh yeah, the guys
are bringing liquor
and the women will be
bringing hors d'oeuvres.
So you'll be bringing...?
Pepto-Bismol!
[RO] And everyone
was always trying
to find out Pat's gender.
That was the sketch.
The whole sketch.
And it lasted for over four
years on Saturday Night Live
and through one major
motion picture.
A draft of which was even
written by Quentin Tarantino.
My middle school friend and I
used to watch
"It's Pat: The Movie"
over and over and over again.
It was f*cking hilarious.
I love to stroke
your p*ssy, Pat.
I know. Muffy likes it too.
My favorite part was
when someone asked Pat
if they had a banana
in their pocket.
...banana in your pocket,
or are you just happy
to see me?
To which they replied,
No, it's a banana
If you're hungry,
get your own.
This is my snack.
Although everyone was obsessed
with uncovering
Pat's true secret,
Pat was supremely unbothered.
-Howdy, Tippy.
-Oh. Oh Pat, what do you want?
Well, I just thought
I'd stop by
and pick up a few
personal items.
Oh, no, no, no.
Please, remember?
No, I don't want to know
about your sex life, okay?
When the film flopped,
Pat was left to rot in
the annals of history.
But not for me.
(lively synth music plays)
Pat lingered
somewhere in the back
of my mind, dormant.
Until 20 years and
a gender journey later
when I was out one
night with friends.
(laughing)
Okay, not me.
One of those times
when you're up so late
that you're almost delirious.
We were joking
about bad 90s movies
that should never be remade
when I blurted out that
I wanted to remake It's Pat.
I hadn't thought about
Pat in two decades.
But here they were.
I went home and re-watched
It's Pat: The Movie.
I still laughed my a*s off.
(laughing)
But this time I saw
something totally different.
I saw me.
(synth music continues)
(offbeat synth music plays)
[PAT] There comes a time
in everyone's life
when he or she
must ask themselves
some very important questions.
Who am I?
What am I?
(whimsical music plays)
I was in high school
and I looked exactly
the same as I do now
but I had cheekbones.
And I remember seeing it
and it was strangely
like looking in a mirror.
It was like, you know,
"Oh, I'm like that."
Is it a he or a she?
Is it a ma'am or a sir?
And people
always called me that,
you know, ma'am, sir,
everything all the time.
You know,
I kind of look like Pat.
I remember seeing Pat
in the early 90s
on Saturday Night Live
and their presence kind of
making me uncomfortable
because people
would call me Pat.
My gender was
ill-defined and not clear.
The thing that
I liked about Pat
was their complete
refusal of all of it.
Price chart
is right over there.
Prices for the haircuts.
Alright, here's a 20.
[BRONTEZ] It was just,
kind of like, "Cool."
Pat is just
effortlessly very positive
and just like, "I don't
know, like, I f*ck."
(laughs)
-Age?
-Height?
-5'8.
Sex?
Yes, please. (laughs)
[MOLLY] I remember
my parents always watching SNL
and I saw Pat and I was like,
"Did I see myself?"
And I didn't know...
anything about
like gender, q*eer.
Like, I had short hair
and I was funny.
I was like,
"So is that person."
So I just love-- I love Pat.
Pat rips.
Pat came on to
Saturday Night Live
about the same time
I started to inquire
about my own gender identity.
And I guess
I remember watching
Saturday Night Live with
my family one Saturday night
and seeing it.
I remember sitting
on the coffee table
like two feet away
from the screen.
And at the time probably
not really knowing why
but knowing that there was
something there for me.
No formalities here.
Just call me Pat.
[JD] I related to the fact
that Pat felt confident
in being like non-binary.
And at the time I guess
I didn't really think
that was an option,
but I saw it in Pat.
(whimsical music plays)
[P AHN] Pat was way
ahead of their time.
Because in a way
Pat was really prescient
about these conversations
we were gonna be having
around gender and
gender expression.
The more recent conversations
around non-binary identity,
the discourse around
they/them pronouns,
has sort of reanimated
Pat from the grave.
(whimsical music continues)
[JULES] Non-binary
is really interesting
because it's a term
that is so incredibly new
and yet has enjoyed
a level of uptake,
like official
institutional uptake
and just cultural clout
probably unlike
any other gendered term
we've seen in the modern era.
What's interesting to me
about being non-binary
and about the definition
of non-binariness is like
it's saying you're
not these two things.
It's not really definable,
but only by what it isn't.
It's interesting thinking
of Pat in those ways.
I love the like
non-binariness of Pat.
But in my terms, you know,
Pat's a little trans masc
but also every like Midwestern
grandma looks like Pat.
[JULES] Part of what
might make Pat
transgender in a 1990s sense
was that it was very much
about being misread socially.
It's really hard for me
not to--
To see Pat as like
not a trans--
Like, what would
they be, then?
A really butch,
d*ke l*sbian?
I don't get it.
I don't want to know
Pat's gender.
I don't want to speculate
on Pat's gender.
I just wanted them
to have a better outfit.
(laughter)
[JOURNAL VOICEOVER]
Day 124 on the island.
[PAT] Oooh!
What was that?
[PAT] Ooooh!
(audience laughing, clapping)
Oh, my God,
it's a... person.
[JOURNAL VOICEOVER]
It's been almost a month
since Pat arrived
on the island.
We have had sex eight times
but I still don't
know what Pat is.
Pat, are you a man or a woman?
What? That's the
most insulting thing
I've ever heard.
I'm obviously a--
No! No!
Don't tell us, Pat!
Why not?
Can't you see
what you're doing?
We don't want to know
if you're a man or a woman.
The fact that we don't know
is all the fun!
Pat is really funny and I
enjoy watching these sketches
even though like... (laughs)
everything in it is telling me
that this is like,
you know, MAGA.
Why don't you just go
to the locker room
and get changed?
-[TIM] Go ahead.
-[LINDA] Yeah, just--
- Okay.
-[LINDA] Keep walking.
[TIM] Go on.
Go, walk right in.
[PAT] I hope there aren't
a lot mirrors in there.
This sketch is so
politically confused.
(laughs)
There's a lot there
that feels very familiar
and not in the best of ways.
You're not telling
the truth Pat!
I'm gonna figure you out!
I'm gonna figure you out!
(tense music plays)
It was like a group
of cis people
in a room writing a joke about
haha, someone's like
being bad at gender.
[TIM] Go, walk right in.
Yeah, I hope there aren't
a lot of mirrors in there.
-[LINDA] Don't worry.
-[TIM] Just go on.
-[LINDA] Pick a door!
-[TIM] Walk through a door.
Okay, here I go.
So is this just--
-am I just reading this like--
-[RO] Just out loud,
like I'm reading it,
or reading it to--
-Okay.
-Yeah.
"A lot of people say,
What's that? It's Pat.
"A lot of people ask,
Who's he? Or she?
"A ma'am or a sir?
Accept him or her
"or whatever it might be.
It's time for androgyny.
Here comes Pat."
(laughs)
[RO] What do you think
about that when you read it?
I mean, it's kind of like--
Here's the thing about
reading that. Is like--
A lot of that is funny
because I'm saying it.
You know? Like,
I've agreed to say that
and like there's an
acceptance line in there
and like it is time
for androgyny.
Like all this stuff
that's in there
it's the eyes of the beholder
but it's also
the creator of it you know
or the person that's doing it,
the agreement that
we're having with it.
And so like
it's that, me reading it,
is like funny.
If I don't consider
the source, you know.
If I don't go back
to that source.
(electronic chime)
(keyboard typing)
(electronic chime)
[JULIA] This is my Adam
and Eve art collection.
I love that the story of Adam
and Eve is Adam and Eve
and then a disembodied
p*nis comes along
and says, "What about me?"
What about me?
What do I taste like?
And this is Gustave Dor.
And I just love this
'cause it's from the point
of view of the snake.
I just love that
there's the snake
and then they're like,
"Ah, doo doo doo."
The snake's like, "I'm gonna
f*ck your world up."
I used to collect statues
that were kind of
androgynous-looking like this.
This is the Infant of Prague.
And of course, I love this
'cause it's the Catholic thing
but it's also kind of transy.
[RO] You have all these like
funny gender bendy things.
[JULIA] Oh yeah I do.
[RO] Why do you think that's
such an interest for you?
[JULIA] Well, I'm
really interested
in the performance of gender.
It's like you learn these
performance behaviors.
And even before I knew
what that was,
that was interesting to me.
And I also was interested,
when I even looked like Pat,
how differently
people reacted to me.
Yes, here it is.
[RO] I love it.
The original shirt.
The thing that I love
about this shirt now is that
it really did go
through everything.
Like it really was--
This is the shirt I wore
in every sketch on SNL.
And then this fat suit.
Oh, yeah. It used
to have breasts on it
but we took them off.
We gave the fat suit
a mastectomy.
(laughing)
[RO] You gave the fat suit
top surgery.
Yeah, top surgery. I'm sorry.
Yes, that's the way to say it.
We gave the fat suit top--
The Pat-suit top surgery, yes.
The wig is kind of grody,
I would say.
My mom's hair growing up
was a lot like this.
And the mothers
that I knew in Spokane
often had this kind
of dark hair with a perm.
And I always thought
it was very
androgynous-looking, frankly.
Because it was
short and curly.
I don't know why curly
has anything to do with it.
But it-- Anyway,
that was one of my ideas.
But anyway.
(laughs) Here's the hat.
This is Harvey Keitel
and this is me
on the set of Pulp Fiction.
I played Raquel.
Monster Joe,
Truck and Tow's daughter
who got rid of the body.
And he says, "Come on baby,
I'll take you out
to breakfast."
And I jump in his stylish car
and we drive off together.
Since 1986!
I was working
as an accountant.
I was good,
but I wasn't great.
So then I read a review
of the Groundling
in the paper.
I'd never heard of it.
I went and I took
a basic class.
And Phil Hartman
was my teacher.
And I knew then
I had to change my life.
Oh, that's just me
in front of 30 Rock.
Phil got on SNL.
And then I got on SNL.
I remember when Julia
first came on the scene.
People were raving about her
and what a great
audition she had.
I was in the first Pat sketch.
How's it going Bill?
Great, just working.
[JULIA] It started out with me
working with someone
who had these qualities
that were really annoying.
He stood way too close.
He asked me to have
lunch way too much
in ways, like,
if I said, "No, not today"
he'd say,
"What about tomorrow?"
Like, his weirdness
was funny to me.
My first idea
was to just do him.
So I found this kind of
western shirt
and these khaki pants.
There was like ten jokes.
One joke at the end is like,
"Are you even
a man or a woman?"
And then the audience
went crazy over
that part of it.
So I was like, "Oh that's
the funny part of it."
-(bell chimes)
-After you, sir.
(audience clapping, laughing)
Or ma'am.
Now I'm looking for jokes
about men and women.
Hello.
[JULIA] Then I'd go
to the drugstore
and I'd notice--
Why are the razors
for women pink
and the ones for men black?
I need some disposable razors.
Alrighty.
Alrighty.
We have the pink Daisy shaver
with the moisture strip.
Or the Gillette
double-edged brawny.
(laughing)
So it really kind of
gave me this opportunity
to think a lot about it.
But it was really only
after I came up with Pat.
(funky dance music plays)
[KARAM] SNL at that time
was sort of in one
of its golden ages.
The cast was made up of folks
like Phil Hartman,
Rod Schneider,
Chris Rock, Mike Myers.
I'm your host...
[KARAM] It was sort of this
golden era
in the history of the show
where everyone
was sort of tuning in
at the same time to watch it.
-Live from New York--
-It's Saturday Night!
13 million people chimed in
to watch Pat every Saturday.
That's insane.
So it was like a phenomenon.
[JULIA] Pat was really
popular in the 90s.
There was t-shirts and swag
and they made it the
Christmas card of that year.
I was going to
the opening of malls.
Here's Pat.
I went to
a sexy lingerie/g*n shop.
And it was Pat Day.
And they were announcing
over the intercom,
"Pat is on aisle 5
over the edible panties
and the handguns."
The bands who came to SNL
were really into Pat.
You know, R.E.M. and Prince.
K.D. Lang, man,
she loved Pat.
She would say, "Do you know
how many Pats
"I have in my audience?
A lot of Pats."
I felt totally
positive feelings
from the g*y community.
I was asked to do a lot
of g*y pride parades as Pat.
And then I was
in Rolling Stone
and Spin Magazine.
Then we shot the movie, and it
was basically the same jokes.
I crushed my nuts.
(groaning)
There goes my afternoon snack.
[JULIA] It definitely burst me
onto the scene
of popular culture.
People knew who I was.
I got some respect
in the comedy world.
Anywhere you went,
anyone in America
would know who Pat was.
Pat...
That was the most popular
I'd probably ever be.
Like, put it this way.
If I died tomorrow,
the picture on the news
would be of Pat.
They would be saying,
"It's Pat died." (laughs)
And I remember going
taking the subway
after a SNL show on Halloween
And being on
subway cars with like
seven or eight
people dressed as Pat.
(funky dance music continues)
I didn't really think
of Pat in a broader sense.
I didn't have
deep thoughts about it.
I didn't feel like
I was saying anything
about the androgynous
community.
I didn't even know
that existed, actually.
I mean, I was really like,
I'm just trying to do
something funny enough
to get on the show.
Hey, guys.
-Hey.
-Hey, Bob.
Hey, p*nis looks great today.
(audience laughing)
Well, thanks, Jack.
Yours, too.
Hey, Bob.
Hey, Ted, how's your p*nis?
Not bad.
[JULES] Sweeney
is on SNL at a time
when still men are
really dominating comedy.
When we're supposed
to be living
in this "achieved
feminist society"
that had never
really happened.
[JULIA] In the 90s,
SNL was a very
male-dominated world.
There were
three women and ten guys.
Christine and I
would write a sketch
from a woman's perspective.
And the guys would say,
"Well, it's just
not that funny."
Lorne would say, "Well,
it didn't get enough laughs."
Well, it didn't get
enough laughs
because of the composition
of the people in the room.
The parts that the guys wrote
for the women
were almost always
insipid kind of
cartoon characters.
God, your earrings make
your whole head sparkle.
(audience laughing)
Thank you!
[JULIA] It was hard
to compete for those roles.
And then,
the men are playing women.
Hey, girls,
I miss anything?
(audience laughing, clapping)
Nothing.
Chrissy's being stupid again.
[JULIA] So, that bothered me.
And it seemed
like it was taking
this comedic turn
that was much more bro-heavy.
I don't think it's an accident
that the only character
I could get on
was androgynous.
Like, I couldn't
break through
except for with this character
that was kind of
half-man, half-woman.
I can't talk
about this anymore.
I guess it's that time
of the month. (laughs)
Oh, okay.
Bills. (laughs)
(audience laughing)
[RO] Could you see
any reasons
why Pat would be offensive?
Well...
everyone takes offense
to every sketch on there.
You know, it's just
different people take
different offenses.
I don't think there was
any negative results from it.
At the time, we're all
just thinking,
what's funny to us?
What's funny now?
And what makes us laugh?
And we weren't thinking,
"Oh, someone's going
to be hurt by that."
"Someone's going to be
hurt by that."
There's lots of characters
people come up with
on the fly,
like I really did with Pat.
Not a lot of forethought.
But that's how
lots of things--
That's how lots
of creative things happen.
And...
they can be insulting
to certain groups of people.
And there's a huge group
of non-binary people now
that are making
themselves known.
That changes everything.
And that's not
something I anticipated.
Oh, yeah.
100%.
You go back and look
with a lens of now,
and you can either
say like, "All of this--"
Because it is transphobic.
It is transphobic.
It's also funny.
And Pat is a non-binary icon.
(laughs)
Have we not discussed
that all three
of those things are true?
But if you performed
it differently,
if you performed it
with the heart of
gender non-conformity,
if the people who wrote it
were in on the
experience of that,
(laughing)
it has a lot to it
that could be explored.
I hear a new world
I hear a new world
I hear a new world
calling me
calling me
calling me
[RO] So you could
ask the 8-ball
the Pat questions.
[HAYDEN] Oh no, I'm almost
out of room
for my bubble letters.
[GRACE] Whoa.
[RO] Oh my God, April's
literally doing that.
[APRIL] I don't--
[RO] Brontez.
[BRONTEZ] I'll sit down.
[RO] All right, guys.
Are we here?
We're here, right? Yeah?
-Should I put the hat on?
-[RO] Yes.
Okay, so...
Day 1.
So I think this, for me,
is about an undying
obsession with Pat.
How can something
so weird and problematic
also be a really
real reflection
and like commentary
on the gender binary?
Is it something
that's reclaimable?
Is it something
that we can reinvent
in a way that is trans?
Is it even worthy
of being a joke?
Is it still funny?
Like, what do we do with it?
So, basically,
how it's going to go is
we are going to ideate
our own new sketches
that are inspired by Pat.
Could we switch
the perspective
on this whole sketch?
I don't know if I feel like
there's anything left here
because the things about Pat
are all made
to make them annoying.
And those things
are gender ambiguity
and maybe like
neurodivergence.
And it's like--
I don't know how that
comes back around.
[GRACE] I think that's true.
But I also think that
I like how much he sucks.
I don't know.
-[HAYDEN] He?
-Or they suck.
-What?
-Sorry.
Pat-- I just read Pat
as a trans dude too, I think.
Like, honestly.
[BRONTEZ] Also too,
and I hate to even go down
this rabbit hole, but, like,
you know, gender expression
is also a part of a race
and a class thing.
The weird thing about Pat
is people do
this whole song
and dance around it.
Whereas in actual society,
they'd be like,
"Are you a f*cking
boy or a girl?"
But Pat does exist
in this kind of like
padded, white,
corporate thing.
[APRIL] In our rewrite,
Pat gets the sh*t
kicked out of them.
(laughing)
[GRACE] Well, I think
it's also notable
that Pat themself
has an answer.
Pat, I don't think, views
themself as non-binary.
Like Pat views
themself as a gender,
as a binary gender.
[APRIL] Well, that's the joke
is not the refusal,
but the obtuseness.
Pat is extremely obtuse.
I feel like
the issue with Pat,
they weren't
confident enough about
the joke being on cis
people's gender panic.
Oh, you could
have just relied on,
it's funny enough
to have everybody
literally crumble and dissolve
their marriages
because they've encountered
someone gender non-conforming.
That is funny
and that's evergreen
and that's still
happening today.
But the way that
it became weird
is like Pat is like a weird,
-drooling narcissist.
-Yeah.
Which of Pat's characteristics
would we change
in a rewrite situation?
[ROBIN] All I really
put down is no drooling.
I just don't like
the drooling.
[BRONTEZ] Yeah, and not
wriggling their fingers
and touching their face
like they have a disability.
-[APRIL] Yeah, I agree.
-And a little smarter.
And I put thinner eyebrow.
I don't know why.
It was the only
visual thing I didn't like.
Just absolutely tweeze,
like early naughties.
I want to know
what makes Pat, Pat.
[GRACE] I think also
a lot of Pat is
how the world reacts to Pat.
[HAYDEN] So like getting
people to be
confused and obsessed
with trying to figure out
what your gender or sex is.
And it's like the inability
to tell what Pat is.
That's kind of
the central premise, I think,
is that--
That's the main joke.
Does anyone think Pat is hot?
-[ALLY] No.
-Is anyone attracted to Pat?
I think Pat's hot.
-Yeah.
-Would you f*ck Pat?
I mean, yeah,
I'm sure we can
go in a room
and figure out something.
(laughing)
[BRONTEZ] Would it
have made a difference
if Pat was super
hung or not?
(laughing)
[APRIL] I feel like Pat
was not designed to be hot.
And I think that is
an interesting choice.
Yeah, totally.
Yeah.
-Yeah.
-I think that's true...
[RO] I knew I wanted
to recreate Pat.
But how?
(smooth jazz music plays)
I imagined dressing
people up as different Pats.
Hot Pat.
Hick Pat.
Fashion Pat.
Merging all these gender
non-conforming people
under the broad
umbrella of Pat.
But was that enough?
[RO] And action.
A lot of people say,
"What's that?"
It's Pat.
[RO] I wanted to understand
if a new Pat was possible.
What would they say?
How would they exist now?
What would an all-trans
writer's room
look like if they
reimagined Pat?
Would it be funnier?
Could we yank Pat from the 90s
into the present day?
Or should they forever remain
in their historical context
with all the other
misguided icons of the era?
I feel like a sexy Pat.
[RIVER] Yeah, yeah.
If I could Vogue,
I would Vogue.
(laughing)
(subway rumbling)
[MOLLY] So, I always have
a notebook in my wallet.
It's like a series, but I fill
these things up like crazy.
(Ro laughs)
- This is--
- [RO] Can we see this one?
Oh yeah, this is a set list
that won't make any sense.
Some of them have drawings.
Some of them are just like--
I have a pizza in here,
for some reason.
I dress myself every day
unless I'm hungover.
Then the day before,
dresses me.
That was an old one.
(laughing)
I'll show you some cue cards.
This is the classic.
Your first time you say,
"Live from New York"
they give you your cue card.
Oh, this is cool.
This is when we were in GQ.
I forgot I had this one.
I'm the first non-binary
cast member to be on the show.
And I think the only one.
Hopefully not forever.
[ANNOUNCER] Introducing SNL's
first non-binary cast member.
It's Molly Kearney!
(audience applauding)
Made it!
Thank you, Mr. Che.
Molly, what is all this?
Well, as you know,
I've been wanting to come
to Update and talk
about trans people.
But I have for a much
longer time than that
wanted to fly down
from the ceiling.
(laughing)
And did it live up
to your expectations?
Yeah, but I've been hung up
on my genitals
for far too long.
And I'm starting
to feel like a frickin'
Republican lawmaker.
Hello!
(applause fading)
[MOLLY] There's
a huge trans scene
that's really evolved
in the past couple years.
Ten years ago, I'd be
maybe the only
non-binary person on a show.
Now it's--
We're everywhere.
I think also
the world's changing,
so there's a lot more
q*eer kids who are like,
"I'm f*ck' funnier
than all these people
and I'm gonna go
out and do stand-up."
Why don't they make
mermaid bras
for transmasculine people?
[JULES] Trans comedy
has exploded
in the last ten
years especially.
How are you doing, everyone?
Oh my God!
Oh, sh*t.
[ROBIN] I'm so sick
of people asking me
if I'm gonna get the surgery.
'Cause look, I don't know
what you think
I have underneath my dress.
But I'll tell you
what I don't have
is $100,000.
I was gonna do stand-up
once and then k*ll myself,
and then I was
pretty good at it.
So I'm like, "Okay,
I'll put off the suicide
until next week."
Our comedy kind
of asks the question,
what if...
-Two...
-What if two trans women...
were f*cking idiots?
Honestly, grow the f*ck up
and just f*cking ask me.
f*cking ask the question
you wanna f*cking ask.
Do I have a p*nis?
Do you wanna know
if I have a p*nis?
-Does she have a p*nis?
-f*ck you!
If you're not realizing
the bravery in me
discussing these things
with an audience,
all you're hearing is
a comedian telling d*ck jokes.
My guy friends always
asking me dumb questions.
They say, "Fox,
how do you tuck it?"
I give them a dumb answer
because I hate that question.
I say, "Easy,
"what I do is I tie
this m*therf*cker to a brick,
"I throw it through
my legs real hard,
let it come over my shoulder
and click it like a seatbelt."
(audience laughing)
[NORI] I can
totally understand,
for me, the connection
between trans
experience and comedy.
We have a very weird, funny
experience that is unique.
I just can't get out
of being non-binary.
I try so hard.
Like, I've been on
testosterone for four years.
Look how pretty I am.
(audience laughing)
Where the f*ck
is the transition?
(laughing)
[JANAYA] It is such
a profoundly
humiliating experience
to move around in a body
that is somehow
a representative of you
as an individual, okay?
Nobody got to swipe
right or swipe left
on this sh*t, okay?
We got what we got.
I had top surgery
in Austin, Texas.
Uh, yeah.
It's not the state you think
to get gender-affirming
surgery at all.
Actually, I hopped
off the plane
and they were
like, "Here you go."
They just handed me a g*n.
I was like, boom.
Blew my t*ts off.
(audience laughing)
I would track
that kind of sudden
expl*si*n of trans comedians
as growing alongside of
and in response
to this rising tide
of anti-trans
political violence.
I mean, you just can't
pick them apart.
I don't have any jokes.
(audience laughing)
[NORI] I want to figure out
a way to make
what's happening
to trans people
across this country funny.
I do, I feel like
it's a challenge
because it is so intense,
but maybe that's
why it's not funny.
It's not about trans people,
it's about what people
are doing to trans people.
And it's not funny stuff.
Sorry,
I just had that insight.
It is interesting.
I'm taking a show out on tour
for the first time ever,
and there's actually
places I cannot go.
Is this a bad joke?
You're telling me
that someone's
going to ban my health care,
but I can also go see
transgender comedians
like five nights a week
at the local comedy club?
If you're so horny for a joke,
here's one...
(audience laughing)
America.
(audience clapping, laughing)
(lively a cappella
music plays)
[NICO] A lot of trans people
are at the mercy
of other people's willingness
to give you
the respect you deserve,
and so to be able to get
that back
and have that power back,
it's one of the reasons
I feel so drawn to stand-up.
I've been medically
transitioning
for a couple years now,
so I "pass" a lot more now.
And if you guys don't know
what passing means,
this guy at my cousin's
straight wedding
put it best when he said,
"Damn, dog, I had no idea."
[NICO] Despite
all of that sh*t,
I'm still going to be here,
and I'm going to
make you laugh,
and I'm going to be myself.
That feels like kind of
an act of political
resistance.
If I like someone and
we're really vibing,
I tell them to transition.
(audience laughing)
'Cause being trans is an MLM.
(audience laughing)
It's a pyramid scheme.
(audience laughing)
If I could get five
of you to transition,
I'd get an air fryer.
(audience laughing)
[NORI] It's hard to do
that material
when the entire world is,
like, hating trans people.
[ROBIN] I've gotten
the confusion, the anger.
Like, I think it's a girl
because they have makeup on.
But they're not trying
very hard, you know? (laughs)
I've had so many experiences
as a Pat.
I still, to this day,
get misgendered or
I don't even know
what you call it,
where people are
trying to figure it out,
and they become
the Kevin Nealons
from those sketches.
Oh, my God, I thought
it was going to be
only trans people here.
I was terrified backstage.
What are you people?
What's going on?
What do we got here?
Yeah, let's get a
little bit of lights.
[ROZ] We don't know
if Rocky's trans,
so I don't know
if he can be in this.
(laughing)
This is my drag mother's boob
that she wore for years,
and then she was
getting rid of it,
and I was like, "I want that."
So I sometimes kind of
touch it for good luck.
Look at this.
I hope you don't
think I'm creepy.
Okay, I'm not known
for my impressions.
Delete that.
[RO] I love it.
[GRACE] This one really rocks.
(smooth electronic
music plays)
[RO] The more time I spent
with these trans comics,
the more curious I became
about the history
of trans comedy.
There had to be one.
Maybe it was in the footnotes,
the margins.
Maybe it was hidden
and disguised.
One thing was for sure.
I needed to move beyond Pat
in order to find it.
[JULES] I think we could
almost imagine a prehistory
to the trans comedy
we see today.
For example, the kind of humor
that trans women
and trans femmes
have been known for came out
of the vaudeville tradition.
This history of performers
who understand femininity
itself as a vehicle for humor.
[ROZ] In the drag world,
there's always been
trans people, and there's
always been comedy.
[JULES] Drag queens were
comedians in a very important,
celebrated sense.
They were the only people
who could make fun
of straight people
and get away with it.
Oh, your hair! Oh, poor,
did you cut it yourself?
(audience laughing)
It is her hair!
The history of trans people
is the history
of trans comedy.
We have been funny for as long
as we've been trans.
[SHADI] One of
the most notable
trans comedy traditions
comes from old-school
Harlem ball culture
All the way up until
the Paris is
Burning ball culture
it's like "reading."
Let's talk about "reading."
[SHADI] It's all
about the roasts
and deflecting somebody's
criticism back onto them.
If you get in a smart crack
and everyone laughs and kikis.
Butch queen!
Then you've got
a good read going.
[JULES] And then there's
this other lineage of comedy
from the working girls,
from the girls on the street,
from the hoes
who have developed
their own lexicons
for surviving on the street,
including devastating
police officers
with the best quips
that have ever been invented.
Part of what interests
me is the migratory shift
from being funny in community
and the sort of lineages
of performers
who have always done
what we might call comedy,
and with that kind of moving
now into genres
we haven't seen before.
So, like, stand-up comedy.
[ALLY] I'm just gonna make
a little coffee, I think.
Alrighty.
(coffee grinding)
I have been doing comedy
for like ten years now.
One of the biggest themes
that's come up
has been this idea
around gender failure.
I deeply identify with gender
failure being kind of like,
oh, I'm not very
good at being a girl,
and since everyone's
telling me I'm a girl,
I can't be a boy.
And when I try
to do that stuff,
that's also gender failure.
It's just kind of like,
yeah, stuck in a hard place.
Ooh!
Hmm.
-Job well done.
-Let's take it off.
(laughing)
[ALLY] So I was
thinking about Pat,
and the whole joke in Pat
is that they are
failing at gender.
SNL is so far-reaching,
so it probably hurt a lot more
people than we thought it did.
Like young,
gender-nonconforming kids
being like, "Oh no,
if I don't look visibly male
or female, everyone's gonna be
like so f*cking weird to me."
(whimsical music plays)
[GRACE] Pat really scared me
when I was a kid.
Whenever I saw,
like, a copy of it at
Blockbuster or something,
I would just, like, tense up.
[GRACE] I think it was just
because it was like,
"Oh, that does
exist in the world."
We have a conception of it.
And I was like, "I don't
want it to be a thing."
I was like, if it's a thing,
then that's what I am
in some capacity,
and that sounds
really hard and bad.
Did you and Chris
play any kind of
games in bed?
Yes. (laughs)
(audience laughing)
Anything specific?
Role reversal.
We felt it kept
the relationship alive.
(audience laughing)
Did you and Chris
practice safe sex?
Yes.
Which one of you
put on the condom?
We put it on together.
We made it a part of foreplay
like the sex manual suggests.
(laughs)
[GRACE] I remember seeing
reruns or whatever
and them joking
about Pat's genitals,
and that specifically
really freaked me out
because I didn't know
the term intersex.
And I thought there
was something wrong
with my junk
as I was growing up.
I guess through different
ways, but I was like,
"Oh, that must be me
and all this is going
to be bad," you know? (laughs)
As someone who was
in middle school
who had a non-binary
gender expression,
kids called me
Pat all the time.
No one wanted to be a Pat.
God help you that never
turn out like this.
If you do, this is
the kind of harassment
you're going to
have to deal with
at, you know, the barbershop
or in everyday life.
Hey, that tickles. Please.
[ABBY] I was coming out
1996 in Chicago
and I just started
being called Pat, like...
by people bullying people
in the street
and harassed and,
you know, hurt by that.
I got it.
Like, I wasn't like,
"Oh, gosh, I would never
see that comparison."
It's like, "Oh, wait, I'm not
gender non-conforming."
Yeah, I am.
Like, "I'm not fat."
Yeah, I am.
I'm not, like--
"I don't have big glasses."
Yeah, I do.
"I don't have
short black hair." Yeah, I do.
You know, I mean,
it wasn't always like,
"How did they get here?"
I mean, there was
no other reference point
for somebody
that was non-binary
or gender fluid
or any of that.
(upbeat music plays)
[MURRAY] Pat was the only
gender ambiguous person
that I saw on TV.
See what I mean?
Pretty creepy, huh?
So maybe that's why
I went to therapy so much.
You had all these
very beautiful,
feminine women
playing tomboys,
but they never gave
up their female identity.
[JULES] In the 90s,
people were starting to play
with gender a little bit more.
In ad campaigns, in fashion,
and really in music.
Are you feminine?
Do you like being masculine?
I like being both, actually.
It's an attitude, really.
Being masculine, what is that?
I mean, can you tell me
what is being masculine?
[JULES] Without getting
into the very important debate
about the fact
that Kurt Cobain,
of course, was a trans woman.
If you ask the girls,
the signs were there.
It's another documentary.
(laughs) But, you know,
whether or not, right,
just, like, packaged up for
a mass cultural audience,
Kurt Cobain wearing a dress,
Dennis Rodman, whatever...
he was up to then.
So there was this sort of
broader sense of
experimentation with gender.
Androgyny was always sold
in this package.
It was something that only
fashion models could do.
It was something
only rock stars could do.
But here comes Pat
completely destabilizing that.
Pat's androgynous,
but in this other kind of way.
(VHS tape clicking)
I'm gonna pinch the skin folds
around your abdomen.
And then we can get
a body fat percentage.
Oh, great.
Oh...
(Pat giggling)
(audience laughing)
Well, I think you need
to tone, to tone up.
And I think you need a lot
of cardiovascular exercise,
you know, burn
through that fat
and see what's under there.
[APRIL] It's interesting to me
that their approach
to making Pat androgynous
was to make Pat fat and not--
That's not interesting to me.
That's my day-to-day life.
-(laughing)
-Well, okay, I just mean,
-Yes, yeah, yeah...
-today androgyny is--
you know, we'd use that word
to talk about people
who are so skinny they don't
have t*ts or whatever, right?
No, we used that to talk about
hot people that
are androgynous.
-Right, sure, okay, whatever.
-Fat people are all--
You don't think fat
people can be hot?
No, I'm saying all fat people
are androgynous.
Your gender is taken away
by your fat.
Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Something that I think is more
sort of necessarily
transphobic
is the idea that we're
sort of supposed
to feel this kind of,
like, sexual disgust
about this person
who's chubby and androgynous.
"It," like, I remember "it"
being specifically
what annoyed me.
The word "it."
That's the way
to dehumanize a trans person
is to designate them as "it."
I can say this because
I'm on the spectrum.
I think Pat is just probably
autistic in some way.
Uh, neurotic, autistic.
(offbeat music plays)
[JOEY] I think Julia Sweeney,
as a comedian,
approached this performance
as a clown.
And I think that's
what made them
do the thing with the hands
and do the voice.
Which, you know,
are ultimately--
these are ableist tropes.
I don't know who
walks like that
or who holds their
hands like that
or who talks like that,
but those are not tropes
about gender.
Those are tropes
about disability.
And so, the fact
that they were laid
onto a performance of gender
is what makes it
into this kind of
highly problematic
propaganda about humiliation.
I call it propaganda
because it works on a level
that people don't really get,
but they know
they're laughing.
They don't know
why they're laughing,
but they know it's
because there's an other.
It's that subtle thing
of being in on the joke,
being the one
that's telling the joke,
or being the butt
of the joke, right?
So all of that
is different power dynamics.
And, you know,
when you're a...
ambiguous, trans man,
l*sbian, d*ke,
you are not
in a position of power.
So that laugh and stuff,
it's not an empowering laugh.
It's a I'm-gonna-take-a-
sh*t-on-your-face
kind of laugh.
(unsettling vocal music plays)
It really wasn't until
the last few years
when people were
talking about how Pat
was like an unflattering
and derogatory depiction of
non-binary androgynous people.
It actually shocked me.
Like, I get how
it could come out bad.
On the other hand,
I don't know how responsible
I am for that.
Yeah, I was trying
to look unattractive.
I put on a fat suit.
I picked ugly clothes.
I picked an ugly wig.
I picked unflattering glasses.
I mean...
But when I picked
those things,
I wasn't thinking "androgyny."
I was thinking
this character in my head.
I certainly didn't
intend to give a word
for something that somebody
could be shamed by that word.
I mean...
that's terrible.
But I guess I don't
feel so terrible
that I regret having done it.
(laughs)
I don't really believe
the intention of
those sketches was to
make anyone feel pain.
Like, I just don't.
That is a consequence
of that action, though.
And also, comedy often
causes pain for people, so...
I can't say that
that's off limits.
You know what I mean?
Or that only
certain people can do it.
But...
clearly,
people are doing it who are
in a powerful position,
whether they
realize it or not.
[RO] Is the fallout
around Pat
Julia's responsibility?
Oh, that's interesting.
Yeah, I think so.
I think it comes down
to the person
who created something.
Creator is responsible
for the character.
They're not responsible
for how people
react to it in the time.
They're responsible
for addressing how--
if it's changed from
the original intent.
I think, yes.
I think so.
[RO] Could Pat
be redone now?
A reimagining, sure.
Um...
But...
Why?
(jazz music plays)
[RO] Maybe it was a mistake
trying to remake Pat.
They hurt so many
trans people.
Maybe me laughing at
Pat was actually about
my own discomfort
about my own gender.
And that Pat also acted
like a cautionary tale for me.
Maybe they were
just an amalgamation
of problematic
characteristics
with a little bit of
magic mixed in.
Maybe the magic was Julia,
and that was the one thing
that couldn't be recreated.
Is there anything
worth salvaging here?
Maybe there isn't.
What do we do with
these beloved relics
that have aged badly?
How do we redo Pat
without falling
into the same tropes?
Will they even be
recognizable as Pat?
What makes Pat, Pat?
I feel I'm going insane
down a Pat hole.
Alright, "Thank you, Pat."
Mm-hm.
[BRONTEZ] I think
at the very core
it would just be impossible
to have this
character these days.
Yeah?
I think it's something
that could only
actually work in the 90s.
-[APRIL] Really?
-Yeah, 'cause--
[APRIL] So you're coming
out with
"It's impossible,
we can't remake Pat."
-In a way, yeah.
-[APRIL] Okay.
I do think part
of what makes Pat, Pat
is the resistance of queerness
or a label or whatever.
And so I wonder if
maybe if you were
to remake Pat today
you would need
to keep that up actually.
Yeah.
[APRIL] I just mean Pat today
does whatever
the hell they want
and doesn't apologize.
-That's great.
-Yeah.
[GRACE] I also like
the idea of Pat
living in a house like this,
having like a long marriage.
[HAYDEN] I do see that,
like I see an older Pat.
(strange music plays)
[EVER] Just being successful
in this house,
could you imagine how enraging
it would be for the neighbors?
It's like Pat would
be really offensive
to like a rich sensibility.
Pat is not quiet
or respectful.
[APRIL] What are
Pat's politics?
Right wing?
Right-wing Pat?
[HAYDEN] A Pat dressing like
Pat is hot as f*ck.
[ROBIN] Pat saves someone
from an active
sh**ter situation.
Oh, that's really good.
And I didn't even have
to use these!
(screaming)
This was Pawpaw's g*n.
And this was Great Mimi's.
This one smells like my back.
(laughing)
Like Pat being handed
a cup to jack off into
and being like,
"Oh, are we having
drinks or something?"
(laughing)
[ALLY] I'm like really tempted
to get to the point
where Pat is like,
"I'm non-binary,"
to update it,
'cause it does feel like we're
still playing in an old world.
[ROBIN] I think
asking Pat outright,
it kind of ruins the
sketch, doesn't it?
[ALLY] But I think that's like
the updated version of it.
-and people are being dumb.
-[EVER] What if like,
they're like,
"So, are you non-binary?"
It could be
another joke of like,
"I'm an American
or like, I'm--"
I'm cashless!
Yeah, there you go.
I think that's good.
(laughing)
[APRIL] Pat Riley?
Born, bred,
and breeding. (laughs)
[GRACE] It would be funny
if Pat's at a q*eer clinic
'cause it was the only one
in their network.
(laughs)
And also just trying to be
as woke as possible and as PC,
but you need to know
what's going on down there
to help Pat, you know?
[APRIL] That's
always the problem
with the doctor, too,
is they're like,
"So, I know you're a woman,
but tell me about that c*ck."
Am I right?
(laughter)
[APRIL] What are
your pronouns?
Well, I'm pro-noun,
I'm pro-verb,
and I'm pro-adjective too.
(laughing)
-Okay.
-[RO] Cut!
(laughing)
[APRIL] If you
are a cis person
watching a sketch,
it could play as just like
a totally regular Pat sketch.
You're like, "Oh, Pat's
in another situation again.
But if you're a trans person
and you see Pat,
this gender non-conforming-
visually person at the doctor,
and the doctor's kind of
interrogating them,
there's another level
of tension and humor
for people who are
in on the joke of like,
why the doctor is
a tense place to be.
And not everyone's
going to be in on that joke,
but it felt like
a joke for us.
- Yeah.
-[APRIL] Very funny.
(computer chimes)
(keyboard typing)
(computer chimes)
(electronic music plays)
[RO] Do you think
the joke is on Pat
or on the people around Pat?
I think the joke is on Pat.
I mean, obviously now, if we
watched it, we would be like,
"Oh, well, Pat is an icon
and all these people are crazy
and we should laugh at them."
But I think at the time,
that wasn't necessarily
the implication.
I like to think the joke was
on the people around Pat
who felt so uncomfortable.
The joke was the person
being so flummoxed over Pat,
not over Pat
being androgynous.
[RO] I want
to believe Julia
when she says that
the joke wasn't on Pat
and wasn't meant
to be on trans people.
(laughs)
But there's one
particular sketch
that challenges me on that.
[RO] Okay, here we go.
(applause on tablet)
Okay.
Oh, yes.
The Crying Game.
(laughs) Oh, this was
really fun.
-(audience applauding)
-(slow jazz music plays)
I know all there is to know
about The Crying Game
(laughing)
I've had my share
-of The--
-Crying Game
[RO] I'm curious
how this was received
because The Crying Game
at the time was really--
-[JULIA] Huge.
-[RO] It was like one
of the first
trans movies.
[JULIA] Yeah.
[RO] And because
you've said that Pat
identifies as sort of
a binary gender
and in The Crying Game
the character was trans.
Right, that's true.
This makes me think
that Pat is a trans character.
Yeah, I think that's true.
I think I was
playing with all of it
but not thinking
super deeply about all of it.
[RO] Yeah.
But thinking widely
about it, yeah, Pat's--
I mean, the thing is
when you're doing this thing
about The Crying Game,
it's almost like
a meta thing for Pat.
Like, it's not really Pat.
You know, like it's--
The Pat character,
when Pat's in situations
that's real life,
then I would say yes,
Pat's just a man or woman,
we just don't know
which it is, and Pat
in my mind, was
a heterosexual person
but you just didn't know
-which one it was.
-Yeah.
Although now you've
convinced me that's not true.
Because of
The Crying Game sketch.
(laughs)
-Yeah.
-[RO] Yeah.
I think it's difficult
to view things
through today's lens
from that time period.
Because, in my opinion, Pat is
relatively tame compared
to a lot of comedy of the 90s.
Even 2000s.
I guess I would have preferred
somebody of that experience
to be making those jokes
or playing that character.
But at this point,
it's sort of a historical...
depiction of how we talked
about that stuff at that time.
I think Pat is just
at its elementary level,
if we were to dissect
those sketches,
they're just gender
panic sketches.
Christopher Walken
at one point
commits suicide,
jumps out a window.
This has driven me
to a state of unease
from which I cannot recover.
-But, Carl...
-Farewell.
Soon, peace will be mine.
It's very bizarre because
it's so heavy handed
for a comedy show.
What a weirdo! (laughs)
Can you believe Pat
calling someone else a weirdo?
I think comedy is
an unusually complex genre.
(tense music plays)
It certainly reflects
or almost holds a mirror
back up to society
about its own anxieties.
Intentionally or not.
God! Einhorn is a man!
(groaning)
He made you a man.
I'm not sick, honey.
At least God made me
a woman, okay?
I don't have to dress up
like a woman, alright?
[JULES] The 90s is this era
of intense, intense
fighting over
gender and sexuality.
So we could say Pat reflects
a certain level
of anxiety in the 90s.
[PASTOR] God says that it is
wrong, it is an abomination
for a man to lie with
a man as a female.
This is not a moral issue!
This is not
a religious debate!
This is a human rights issue!
[JULES] There was a huge
right-wing backlash
against g*y
people in the 90s.
(shouting) No gays
in the military!
There are
societal-level panics,
but there have been
many over the years.
We're living through
one right now
where the idea is
that trans people
are part of some shadowy cabal
that are out there
grooming children
and making millions of
dollars off of big pharma.
And in the logic in particular
of trans panic,
it's the narrative usually
used to avoid accountability
for having lashed
out preemptively
against someone claiming that
you were threatened by them.
Basically,
"This trans person's
gender is endangering me!"
when they're just
standing there.
And so that exists in the law,
but Pat actually just
shows us that socially,
because the
characters are like,
"I cannot exist
in the world with Pat."
I am brought
to existential crisis.
Several times
across the sketches
and then in the movie,
someone, like, canonically
loses their mind.
(recorder clicks)
What a strange combination of
attraction and repulsion
that I
feel for my neighbor Pat.
I don't even know if Pat
is a man or a woman.
Such a sphinx-like riddle
posed by the very
existence of Pat.
[ESTHER] One thing
that the movie
gets really, really right
is the character
of Pat's neighbor.
Once that character
gets fixated
on what Pat's genitals are,
it consumes their whole life.
Towards the end of the movie,
he ends up dressing up as Pat
and being like,
"I'm just like you, Pat."
There's a weird chaser vibe.
There's a weird egg vibe.
That's terrible, Pat.
I have frames just like those.
There's just a lot
of weird psychosexual things
going on with this character.
I know everything
about you, Pat.
Everything except
the one thing I must know.
What else is there to know?
-Take off your clothes.
-What?
You're nothing but a pervert.
By uncovering
the secret of you,
I uncover
the secret of myself.
Kyle!
Now take off your clothes
if you ever want to see
your diary alive again.
(Pat grunts)
No!
When I first saw the movie,
I felt like the neighbor was
a very predatorial,
scary figure.
I think the takeaway is
that that discomfort
with not being able to put
someone in a box can lead to
all kinds of microaggressions
and violence.
[PINK] The ending was
off-putting as well
because for those
who haven't seen it,
they pants Pat.
Pat!
Don't run.
You know you want me.
Surrender, my sweet.
The chaser guy, Kyle,
is trying to see
what the genitalia is.
Help!
-(Pat grunting)
-(pants tearing)
Don't get too close
to my fantasy
(audience murmuring)
(unsettling vocal music plays)
(spotlight banging)
[PINK] And that is the
violent reaction
to people not knowing
what they're looking at.
That's the reality
a lot of the time.
Everybody wants
to strip you naked
and see, like, "Who
am I dealing with?"
What are you?
'Cause what you are,
which I cannot
put my finger on,
is making me feel
like I am something
that I didn't know I was.
That's ultimately, I think,
what is usually at play
when someone
is enraged
by someone else's gender.
'Cause that is an experience
that I've had.
That's the thing
that trans people can say.
"This is so real. This is
what it does feel like."
We do feel stalked.
We get stalked.
If you at all identify
with the character
through the movie and through
the character development,
you're going to feel like,
"This is f*cking horrifying."
I think the fetishizing
of trans and non-binary people
is by that lure of, like,
we don't know.
And that mystery becomes
both an obsession,
a fascination, a fetish,
and oppressing
people because of that.
(unsettling music continues)
[JD] Obviously there's been
so much controversy around Pat
in the past couple
years and, like,
so much comes up
when you start being
prompted to think of Pat
in different ways
than you have
for your whole life.
(music ends)
Because I do think there's,
like, an innocence
to my preteen experience
with the character
that I just have kept with me
like a little teddy bear.
And sometimes it can be
hard to reassess that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
When I watch the skits now,
I actually feel some, like,
pain in the realization
that my family was laughing
at Pat when I might not
have been or something.
It's interesting to, like,
think about how that
may have differed
if there were
q*eer people there.
And I also think that,
how can I feel so connected
to something that
was created by, like,
a bunch of older
straight people?
And how does it
speak so much to me?
[RO] This feels really
revealing to me
'cause now I'm showing you
the depths of my obsession.
[JULIA] It's okay.
I have my obsessions, too.
[RO] What's this?
Oh, look! Look at this!
-[JULIA] Aww!
-[RO] Isn't that cool?
Oh, my God. My mother
must have been so horrified.
This is my mother's
worst nightmare.
[RO] I love that picture.
-[RO] It's so good.
-[JULIA] I do, too!
[JULIA] Wow,
this is the best one.
It kind of really
captures Pat's spirit.
My mother was so mortified
that I was famous for playing
this androgynous character.
She would call me up and say,
"Why can't Pat
just wear a dress?"
"Why can't Pat
put on some makeup?"
I really didn't like
my mom's emphasis
on my sister and I needing
to be conventionally pretty.
Her primary concern for me
was that I'd be
pretty and thin.
That was all you needed to do.
So I decided to be an actress.
She really was against it,
saying really painful things
about how unattractive--
Like, I wasn't pretty enough.
I remember
having to say to her,
When you look on TV,
do you only see
young, beautiful women?
No, there's other characters.
Those are the characters
I'll play.
Like, I couldn't even--
She just couldn't.
So it was actually
a joy to be Pat
because I got to have a break
from having to be a girl, too.
Aww.
(faint voices talking)
[ROBIN] That actually
sounds like my Chinese...
[JULIA] No, no. I'm sure.
I'm sure.
Oh, yeah, I'll have
my water bottle, I guess.
Oh, my God. (laughs)
[RO] Well, good afternoon.
I feel 50% as proud
as I've ever felt
and 50% humiliated
and embarrassed.
-No, no.
-No.
Not humiliated.
That's too big.
But just like, yes, hello.
(laughing)
[GRACE] Did you ever imagine,
like, 30 years ago
that you would once be--
No!
[JULIA] And all the way
driving here,
I was thinking
how oblivious I was
when I created the character.
I just thought some people,
you just couldn't tell
if they were man or woman,
isn't that funny?
My first times I did it,
I was trying to be a guy.
I thought, "Oh, isn't it funny
when there's a co-worker
who's just so annoying
and you can't leave them?"
[APRIL] Yeah.
But then people were like,
"I don't know if that's
coming off that well."
And actually, I feel like
one of the mistakes I made
looking back, well,
not-- whatever,
is that I wouldn't let go
of the initial guy in my mind.
You know, where
I should have gone
with the androgyny
part of it more.
But I felt like,
as a creator of a character,
it had to be authentic
to my initial idea
without seeing the audience
is actually responding
to this other thing.
Let go of some of these
mannerisms and qualities.
Like, it, all the way,
even through the movie,
it had to be this most
annoying person.
I think maybe, like, some
of the backlash that you got
is just that was, like, the
only representation of that.
-[JULIA] Yeah.
-It was, like, so devoid
of representation,
everyone was craving it,
and then you did
this thing and they
all had an issue.
You know, as a little, like,
trans non-binary kid
but unwilling to, like,
address it, seeing Pat
made me scared of my future.
Like, I was afraid to be that.
I really was scared of Pat
when I was a kid, too.
I'm so sorry.
No. It was also a product
of your environment.
Yes! I felt like
I was reacting to
K.D. Lang and Prince
and David Bowie
who are doing these
gendy-bendy things.
Those people, you understand
what gender they are
and you know
what they're playing with.
But in my mind, the real
androgyny in the world
is the harried mother
in a minivan who has zero time
to think about what
she looks like in any way,
and she's just getting
through the day
because she has so many kids
in the back of the minivan.
And you're just trying to--
Maybe you just have
a really short haircut
because that's
the easiest thing to have.
And maybe you're
not accentuating
your sexual parts of yourself
because you're
just trying to get
four kids to school
in the morning.
You know what I mean?
So I felt this feminist thing
about it a little.
You know what I mean?
Like, yeah.
How important is it
to present yourself
one way or the other?
There were these stereotypes
that I felt a lot of
pressure about.
And when I became Pat,
I didn't have
to think about it.
And it was like
a get-out-of-jail-free card.
[GRACE] That's so interesting.
-I think Pat's adorable.
-Yeah.
Well, me too!
Me too!
Brontez said
that Pat is f*ck.
Oh!
[JULIA] Oh my god! Ro!
(laughing)
[RO] Welcome to
my little collection.
(lively music plays)
[JULIA] Oh, my God.
[RO] And then, yeah,
Murray Hill, and...
[RO] My friend made this,
yeah.
-[JULIA] It's good.
-[RO] The coloring
a little funny, but, yeah.
[EVER] More like
a press release.
[ROBIN] What is this, Ro?
What is this?
[EVER] How
did you find this?
[RO] I got it all on eBay.
I've been stalking
the eBay stuff for it.
You guys, thank you so much
for caring so much about this.
But, being here today,
to be a part of this.
The question
I constantly have, though,
if there was a new Pat,
what would actually
be the conflict
now that we have more
questions about gender.
Because the thing that floated
it was "What were they?"
Now that there's a--
How would it still be funny?
[EVER] I think the reaction
to Pat and the panic
is very prevalent still.
I went into the bathroom--
Early on in testosterone,
I went into the women's room.
And all these people
outside of my stall,
they were like, "Am I
in the men's room?"
It was like all these
women bonding,
being like, "Oh my gosh,
is this the men's room?"
"Did you see that person
go in? Ah, ah!"
[BRONTEZ] Okay, here's
the thing. That's not funny.
Yes, yeah, yeah, exactly.
-That's not funny.
-Exactly.
There's a whole, like,
the political...
[JULIA] To have
created something
that seems embarrassing
or negative
or sending the wrong
"message," I hate that word,
but is a horrifying thing.
It's like...
(faint voices)
[JULIA] When
I go back 35 years,
there's a part of me
that is that person
and there's a part of me
that's another person.
(laughing)
But actually, now that
I've gone through it all
and after our
years together, Ro,
(laughs)
this has taught me to be
more benevolent
towards myself about Pat.
Oi...
There we go,
the winds of change.
[JULIA] Yes, the winds...
-Pat, are you here with us?
-I know.
Pat's like, "What about me?
I want to come and talk."
(whimsical music plays)
[RO] Did you have
any takeaways
from our time with Julia?
[GRACE] Her talking
about androgyny
as a function of not
prescribing to
this womanhood
she felt forced on her,
made me feel a kinship
with how she viewed
gender, honestly.
That was the biggest
thing that I took
when I interviewed her
that I was surprised about
was how it felt like
Pat arose from
a gender oppression
that she was
feeling as a woman.
[GRACE] It made me feel
teared up because it's like...
If something is
a point of liberation
for someone like that,
it's like, how can I
criticize someone else's
way of liberating themselves
from the gender sh*t
that they feel constrained
from, you know?
That made any reservations
I had about Pat
as a character let go,
I feel like...
(whimsical music continues)
[GRACE] How low
should I slouch?
[JULIA] Well, I just always
think Pat sort of
falls in on
Pat's self, like...
Oh, yeah.
-Just sort of like...
-Guh, you guys...
Like, it's just--
Almost like resting hands
on a belly,
resting hands on a belly
But coming up a little higher.
Yes.
I'm actually
a real asset to this company.
You are an asset!
I am an asset!
Let's have some fun!
Let's have some fun!
-Good!
-[RO] And...
Action!
(knocking)
(typing)
(audience cheering)
How do you do?
Oh, thank God.
Let's take a look at this.
Why didn't you circle
the gender? It's obvious!
I know, right?
Well, here's my wound.
(unzipping)
(audience laughing)
Oh, I'm sorry. Wrong room.
Oh, I hope you can do
something for that.
(audience laughing)
Well, you have nice genitals.
(gasps)
(heartbeat thumping)
(spotlight banging)
(laughing)
(laughing continues)
Pat, everybody!
Give it up for Pat!
(audience clapping)
(wistful music plays)
[JAMES] I think that
it's a huge part
of being the q*eer
and trans person
to do these kinds of readings
on things
that are not necessarily,
or even the opposite
of what was intended.
I don't know,
they give us so little.
But we do a lot
with that little, you know.
[SHADI] You know,
back in the 90s,
you would rent a whole movie
because there would be
like one moment
of like a q*eer thing,
or like these sort of
body swap comedies
that had nothing to do
with being trans,
but then you tried
to like project
transness onto
anything you could.
We were watching
that in a certain way.
You know, in a transy
way, in a dreamy way.
I desperately want
to feel connected
to the things that I loved
in my childhood,
even if they were problematic.
(hooting)
[NICO] I think for
a lot of trans people,
your own relationship
to your memory
can be really interesting,
and a little bit
fractured at times.
And so I like thinking
about moments
from my past where I feel like
my transness peeked
through as a child.
I find that really special.
I almost see it
as a return,
and it's been a way to really
process childhood moments
that maybe were
hard or awkward,
and now they can be funny,
which is a nice way
to claim and reframe
some things.
[ESTHER] Pat's like funny.
Pat's weird.
Pat was a failure.
I want to reclaim that.
That feels trans to me.
Being a failure. (laughs)
[SHADI] If trans folks
don't reclaim this stuff,
what's the alternative, right?
It's destroying it.
We're not out to punish,
we're the opposite of that.
We reclaim, that's what we do.
It's in us, and I don't
know what it's about,
but we will figure out
how to make it
great, and funny,
and relevant.
Oh, I'm sorry.
[LINDEN] I think
most artists disidentify
with things that they
made in the past.
I think it's really
important to feel freedom
to reflect
on your body of work,
and to express
complex feelings about it.
I personally think
masks are a scam.
[ANCHOR] Good night,
America.
(laughing)
It's going somewhere
I don't want.
[LINDEN] I think
the more transparent we are,
and the more accountable
we are for our own process,
I think the more that
allows dialogue around it.
I see myself in Pat
in 100 million ways.
(laughs)
I am Pat.
I am Pat.
I am.
That's like
the weird magic of Pat,
which is like, I'm not really
sure how that happened.
I only know that
that character
has been a source
of consistent connection
for me.
[JULES] I just
sort of read Pat
as one of those
kinds of symbols
that we can't help but project
what we need to be thinking
about at the time onto.
So in that sense, I see Pat
a little bit more as
an empty vessel for us to like
hurl all of our unprocessed
bullshit around gender at.
(wistful music continues)
[RO] It's not often
that someone
makes an entire documentary
about a childhood character
they're obsessed with.
I guess that speaks
to Pat's clammy death grip
on my imagination.
For all their problems,
Pat brought me into
the space of inquiry.
Of questioning.
[RO] So it's like either
this one or this one.
And I feel like
maybe this is the vibe.
-[TATTOO ARTIST] Yep.
-[RO] Yeah.
-'Cause it's "the" Pat.
-It's "the" Pat.
-Okay.
-Pat indeed.
[RO] And that's a space
I've been inhabiting lately
as I've gone on my own
gender journey.
It's been nonlinear,
a bit surreal,
with funny left turns
and unexpected moments.
[RO] Oh, that's awesome,
I love that, yes!
[RO] I think this whole time
I wanted to find
the humor in it.
I learned that
the magic of Pat
was what we put into them.
The space that Pat opened up
to discuss our own feelings
about gender.
The awkwardness of it,
the comedy of it.
The weirdness of other people.
The missteps
and misunderstandings.
The tiny seed
of supreme confidence
somewhere in ourselves
that lets us know
that who we are is perfect
and it's actually
other people
who are acting unhinged.
Comedy allows
for these things.
To speak truths we wouldn't
otherwise be able to say.
To provide some levity
amidst the intense
politics of the era.
To strike back at people
who deny our existence.
To not take things
quite so seriously.
This is Pat's
invitation to us.
(wistful music continues)
And what's strange
is that after all this,
I still love Pat.
But now I understand why.
Look at this new hat
that we made.
Oh, my God!
[RO] Pat is not only
Julia's anymore.
That's also wrap
on our writers.
(clapping)
[RO] Pat is ours.
(music ends)
[APRIL] I just wanna say that
love them or hate them,
they lived a beautiful life
and they'll always
be remembered.
And I think we forget that
you know, we're talking
about a real person here.
(laughter)
And this isn't a joke.
And I just want to say,
rest in peace, Pat.
-(agreeing)
-[HAYDEN] Rest in peace.
-[GRACE] Sorry, I'm sorry.
-[APRIL] That's okay.
Here comes Pat
(thumpy dance music plays)
Here comes Pat
I'll do anything
to be in the movie.
(laughing)
Look close.
We're backstage right now
for the big Pat sketch.
Everyone's really excited
and I can tell
everyone's laughing a lot.
The crew's not allowed
to laugh while they're rolling
but I can tell
that they want to.
(kiss)
(thumpy dance music continues)
Here comes Pat
Oh, my God, wow!
Crush it, Hayden.
[RO] So hot.
[APRIL] So, I was
selling makeup
at the Macy's counter
and I realized, I should be
making more money than this.
So I went online and I got
nursing certified
that afternoon.
Here comes Pat
(grunts)
Here comes Pat
[RO] Pat, what do you think
about trans people?
I mean, I think,
I guess they're cool.
I like mechanics.
Welcome to the 21st century.
Pat's back.
And Pat's changed, honey.
The Pat you knew is gone.
Here comes Pat
Here comes--
Here- here comes, Pat
(thumpy dance music continues)
Here comes Pat
Here comes
Here comes Pat
You need to go
be deprogrammed.
Yeah, I know.
Yeah, I know that. (laughs)
Enough with the Pat!
-(laughing)
-(carefree music plays)
(audience cheering)
So, I do think there
already is a trans character
in Harry Potter,
and that's Moaning Myrtle.
(audience laughing)
Always crying, everyone wants
her out of the bathroom.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure.
I go by she/her and I've
been getting they'd...
I just got they/them'd
at a Popeye's.
And that was hard.
(tattoo needle buzzing)
(carefree music continues)
What, wait, what tattoo
are you getting?
[GRACE] Uh, do you
want to show?
[RO] Yeah, hi, April,
you wanna see?
[APRIL] I wanna see.
[RO] Okay, cool.
Hold on, let me show you.
Oh, my God,
not the Pat tr*mp stamp.
(laughing)
[APRIL] That is so--
Oh, my God.
That is incredible.
(carefree music continues)
(music ends)
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We Are Pat (2025)
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