[Music] they're coming to get you Barbara
I didn't want to make a fuss about a thing like that [Music]
wishes they're coming for you
well hello everyone and welcome back to deep Cuts before the horror podcast that
cuts deeper my name's Dylan and I'm joined back today with the my co-host Jacob and Martha say hi guys hi hi guys
not much more creative than that I was just aware we were gonna sound at the same time I don't know if you would
think that I had no count off this is why we need a rehearsal
but it's fun you all know why we're here we've spent two weeks discussing rose red we're
finally gonna wrap it up with the ultimate uh thrilling Epic
Stephen King may be a bit lackluster conclusion we'll talk about it to the
Epic rose red part three night three the night that ended it all are you guys
ready for this conversation I'm ready for the Mayhem that's probably gonna be the conversation about this
third final part all right so uh I guess I guess our first piece of information
is what are our thoughts overall so far uh
Jacob I'll open it up to you to start us out so when you say so far do you mean
not including uh yes so it's basically just a summation of what yes going into the finale one and
two I think that yeah I think that the the setup in episode one was well or the
first night if you want to refer to it that way was it very very strong it got
me really hyped up to see what was going to go down in this house episode two uh
the second night felt like a bit of a mess uh everyone's going in all sorts of
different directions and going into part three I would be hoping that this is all going to converge and that we're gonna
get some kind of satisfying cl*max and conclusion
yeah and like uh like a t like a really bad tender day
you only got about 75 of that I would wager that maybe an
above average Tinder I would say so like they paid for the meal but and they're at some point there was a contemplation
of calling your or texting your best friend and being like hey can you like call me and tell me that like your kids
are sick and you need me to drive across the United States to save them or something because I need to go so
there's always that Martha would be like I Need an Angel shot and they'd be like [ __ ] this is a Waffle House
you come here of your own content like you ended up at this point just a bit too far gone
this is a Waffle House deal with your [ __ ] love okay that's not necessarily
true that's not necessarily true Waffle House will help you out um it's true it's not a waffle house
it's a waffle home I stopped in there after work so it's about midnight
um it was about midnight and for some reason my car just died on me I had both
the the server and the cook out there with jumper cables trying to help me
jump off my car and they got me out of there after I spent and I only spent like eight bucks
on my meal it's true what they say it's a waffle home not a waffle house I've never heard
anyone say that before I don't know I always end up at Waffle House after like my worst
afternoons or at least it was always my worst afternoons and it was always by myself and it was always at like 11 12
o'clock at night and just completely always sitting there just being like what have I done up into this point like what am I doing like how did I get
myself in the situation I'm a waffle house at midnight by myself in Nashville like I've done that with Murfreesboro
and Chattanooga Waffle Houses too yeah and then you see the lady with just too much facial hair and not enough
teeth and you're like it could be worse just got a little bit of hair sticking
up from under her hat it makes me inordinately angry when I actually go to
Waffle House in the morning around the time that people eat breakfast and it's full I just like start ranting about how
it's way too late in the day for people to be going to Waffle House and I shouldn't have to be dealing with this
like uh when one of my relatives was having surgery in the hospital uh we were driving around trying to find
somewhere to eat and all the waffle houses you know this this breakfast restaurant they were all full at
breakfast time and it was just making me so mad but you never need a reservation and
they'll make room for you even if it's the last Booth by the bathrooms do you mind sitting with
several other families we can seat you but you're gonna eat with about three separate families
they're all really nice they've all really bonded because all of them have sons named Joan
so it's already like one big family so I feel like Waffle House is one of those
in between spaces just one of those in between spaces where you walk in and
suddenly it is like five o'clock on a rainy morning in 1992. like one of the
one of the patches where reality is wearing yes and suddenly everything's different in
the middle of the summer it's like okay it's a stormy day early in the morning
even though it's noon on a Friday in June do you like Waffle House or Huddle House
better oh okay me and Martha have a history with Huddle House
um we do now you can't I think it would have to be
specifically that Huddle House and it have to be specifically that one waitress we really like named Brittany I
feel like that would be the only way that Huddle House would genuinely like win that question yeah Brittany friend if it's just generic yeah Brittany uh
her and her boyfriend are still together because we're friends on Facebook so I'm always like rooting for her because she was always the nitrous night nicest
waitress so like what would happen is me and Dylan worked third shift together and we would get off at seven o'clock in
the morning so we'd always um usually about every time we got paid we'd go to huddle house right after work
instead of going to the gym and I can't tell you how many mornings I had their steak breakfast
it was the 20s are a very weird time in your life um we were having emotional come aparts
um over our omelets and uh steak breakfast is yeah and Dylan also liked to take
pictures of me and and edit them in unflattering ways so that was always fun
too yeah I have I have some Renaissance paintings of her that we might post
um honestly I'm okay with it I don't care if this episode gets a thousand views I
will drop those pictures of Martha as a um is a Renaissance
painting lady and I would know when there's minimal clothes just double t*ts out when you
sort of slyly said that you had a history with Waffle House it sounded like a bad thing but this is all
sounding like a good time yeah I guess I mean we cried a lot and or let me
rephrase that I cried a lot in the parking lot and then that's where we tended to go when
Martha's um Tinder love for the week had decided that they were bored and had
some children across state they had to take care of yeah that actually happened
another friend of the Pod anyways hmm
no I don't I mean I love both waffle house is always going to be the default
when when you can't go anywhere else you can go home you can go to your waffle
home um your Huddle House is where you take a
date that you're not really expecting a whole lot out of that's accurate or best
friends that you want to cry with yeah I mean you've probably infused this Huddle House with deep sadness now I mean a
house is like a reflection of the people who live within it right don't go there when I'm happy
oh here's the thing about Huddle House um
they will adjust their menu but you can't just have them make something
off the cuff you go to a Waffle House they will make you anything it doesn't
have to be on the menu I say well I I had someone yeah I had someone make me French toast
like dipping it in the egg mixing it with the cinnamon the hole nine yards wonderful person that's not
on the menu no I'm not a french toast person so I've never actually checked every now and
then I get a weird craving for it but yeah also is this now a podcast about
oh yeah I tried to transition us into rose red and like that's [ __ ] just didn't
work yeah anyways I don't even honestly at this
point I even remember how we got started on the waffle house but it's fine it's fine okay Martha just just tell me just
tell me the summation of your thoughts Martha up and too far at this point yes
yeah so I think that what I love about Rose Red so with with episode one is it really
sets everything up so well you you get a lot of um insight into the characters it's a
lot of getting to know the characters getting to understand what their point and reference is in the story like who
they are what they're going through their experiences and what they're looking to maybe achieve from going to
Rose Red you pretty much get like a good summation of that from the character and you really get interested in the characters and seeing what's going to
happen next and then you go into part two and it's just completely wild and unnecessary like there's just so much in
there that like it just not half of it wasn't necessary it was redundant a lot
of it and you just kind of like okay well you know um I at this point I just kind of want
to know how it ends I just want to know what ends up happening to these these characters and so you go into part three
and you just really want to have like Jacob said like you just want to have that satisfying conclusion like of like
all the different story lines and things and I'll agree it was about 75 of that
you all ultimately end up getting which we'll talk about but for me up until this point you know you
get super excited with part one part two you're just kind of like well that was kind of [ __ ] weird um and then going into part three you're
just kind of like okay well let's I guess see what really is is going on here I mean I can Echo all of that
um this is definitely Stephen King's thank you next Bob you know one taught
me love one taught me patience one taught me pain um and that's pretty much my summation
for the whole thing love the first part the second one irritated me a bit and this one um
this one maybe didn't stick The Landing but we'll get to that at one point there are
definitely moments that I absolutely love still love the characters but yeah I'm gonna
um leave it to miss Ariana for this one and just say one taught me love one
taught me patience and one taught me pain thank you next it was a beautiful metaphor
I know Stephen King Ariana Grande one and the same I don't think I've ever
heard those two names talked about in the same space like that before but you know what I'm here for it there are
going to be uh what you call it what what the kids call it these days photoshops
photoshops of Ariana Grande with Stephen King's face
[Laughter] between the two way
s like one of them is King Grande which is like so extra and the other is like a
Taco Bell item Ariana Stevens
huh I like it power name right there it has a power name
um so perhaps I'm gonna use it in my next book so her oh my gosh so perhaps we should
dig right into uh what's going on uh the third episode
picks up almost abruptly right after uh the second one even though we get a
bunch of establishing shots of the house which I feel like
you could probably take those you should have taken those out for the home video release
um because you're in the middle of all this action and now all of a sudden you're just getting establishing shots
of rooms with nothing happening but they did take the time to edit out the um
opening credits so I guess that's nice they edited out
the title card we still have Joyce ranting about
architecture though houses she doesn't stop that the entire time
there's at no point in time that she ever shuts the [ __ ] up about how great the house is
houses are like sharks when you touch the private parts
I don't know if that I don't think that's true of sharks but that was weirdly like decent metaphor
I love 50 First Dates it's so [ __ ] much sorry I watched that this weekend
um oh I can't even remember anything we were talking about I can just keep hearing that in my head over and over
again we're talking about how like Emery is lost running from room to room Vic is
dead everybody's panicking and then we just cut to a bunch of like Skyline shots of Joyce going houses are alive
houses are live with the new Kenmore fridge it will be alive too
she's just wandering the house taking like doing those like electronic readings like checking everything out
trying to get ghosts and stuff while they're literally dropping like flies around her and she's just completely
unfazed too she's just like I am here for one thing and I don't care about
y'all Joyce Reardon is in her bag um earlier dead this whole trip is all
about her so does does anything actually happen to her until the end like no
experience anything I didn't think so I think they wanted to make it out to seem like the house liked her
like she came with the purpose of helping the house so at that point like there was like you know when the time's
right we'll just you know I think the house just mostly used her pretty much that's a you know going back
to what uh mentioned in the last um a couple times we talked about it is the fact that I genuinely feel like the
house is really the like the big bad villain like the you know it has
influence over them and is using people for their own like gain like using people's images their likeness and then
just outright just you know it got into Joyce's head she became obsessed and with that Obsession it was able to
sprout and the house is able to use her to get the assistance it needs to get back to being fully
Awake and Alive and having some fresh meat I don't think the house really did
anything to Joyce I think she just spiraled um because she does have her Moment of
clarity toward the end but I think she was just on a downward spiral I mean you
think this whole trip is the summation of what she's developed into her life's
work and this is a good transition into something I wanted to talk about
a big theme in this story is autism and one thing about stay with me here
um one thing about autism is
hyper fixation and [Music] there is a lot of hyper fixation in and
around this story Joyce has a hyper fixation I had a hyper fixation
um I'm pretty sure that's probably because I am probably slightly neurodivergent uh
but the whole and Ellen also had her own hyper obsession
with living forever so really this whole story could probably be
summed up I'm not sure what point I'm trying to make actually it's just something that I noted watching this is
all these people have these crazy hyper fixations sounds like you're saying that autism is a Core theme of rose red I
think it is we don't really understand it but we know what hyper fixation is yeah I mean at the end of the day
Stephen King is as wild as he is he normally does have a reason for a lot of the themes and the stuff that he uses in
his stories he genuinely sometimes does have something to kind of stay with it I'm pretty sure this one was just pain
pills well that and you know he he originally was supposed to do it with Spielberg and
then Spielberg dropped it but anyways I'm sorry now you have me imagining like a movie poster for rose red where it's
just Annie in like a really angry pose sending Boulders down to destroy the
town around her and the tag just says autism rocks no
no [Music] I'm leaving the group chat
oh yeah they were in fact rocks yeah you don't even look at the chat me literally in the chat putting chat we can't hear
you more than I'm like I'm trying to get their attention my papa notifications in our chat and none of them are looking at
the chat and so I just start typing the word chat well that was Ellen's first mistake when they got the Ouija board
out she's a woman no one cares what she has to say from Beyond the Grave
laughs Ellen speaking to us from this Ouija board who cares
[Music] but no things were not different then um Martha was talking about how the
house is like this looming evil presence and I was just wondering what the two of
you think the evil originally came from because in part one it talks about how
before this house was even built people were k*lling each other on the construction site there were strange uh
occurrences they did allude to it being a burial ground or did I imagine yeah no
I think at some point it does I What specifically
um Joyce says when she's talking about house it was that the land had a tendency to make people mad
that the land made people angry so I genuinely can see it being built off the
bases that the land is Sacrament and it's been disrupted and so therefore
that you know whatever presence was being appeased is now no longer being appeased and is pissed off the reason
that I bring it up is because in the intro monologue to part three Joyce makes it sound like the house is
evil and crazy because Ellen was evil and crazy she says like a house is a
reflection of the people that dwell within it or something along those lines and so that that really kind of sounds
like the opposite like it was the people I think it was the combination of what brought it to the point that it got to
was Ellen being in the house because I think they Amplified each other
I think that the house found a footing and the crazy you know because like
Dylan's mentioned when he reads her diary it's kind of obvious that from the start she's not exactly a good person
and she's into some weird [ __ ] and so I think when she moves to the house where the land makes people angry it takes
that bit of maybe what may be receding cruelty in the back of her soul and just
kind of brings it to the front and amplifies it because she's being influenced and then of course now the
house is found more of a conduit but it's able to amplify its existence by and so then
there they kind of start feeding off each other I think so it's like a chain reaction like like the land combined
with just normal life circumstances made Ellen evil and crazy and then Ellen made
the house evil and crazy is that no I just mean like so you have the land right it's you know
corrupted it's got a lot of benevolence and evil to it but it doesn't really have like a footing to enact that like
it's just land you know like it doesn't have any conduits or anything like that
to really bring about real other than just making people mad and causing accidents every once in a while when
it's been Disturbed but then you know once the house is built and Ellen moves in Ellen who's susceptible to that
because she's already kind of [ __ ] up it's Amplified like they amplify each
other like the house now has a conduit so it's able to to basically Channel itself and you know have some type of of
sway over like the actual occurrences other than just you know an influence so
you think the land used Ellen as a tool to build the house
that it could then use as a weapon uh I'm not trying to put words in your mouth I'm just asking yeah like pretty
much um and the reason why it happened with Ellen is because Alan like Dylan said
already had that tendency like was kind of off like she was never like
a good person from the start so like even before she moved into the house you know that's why it you know it meshed
with Ellen so well yeah the the common theme in a lot of Stephen King works is
evil places attract evil people um this trend started with the book
Salem's Lot and the Marsden house on the hill
uh you go into full detail about how um uh the
James Marsden I believe it was or maybe I'm just thinking of the actor I don't know
um but he was an evil man who lived in the house the house is evil it attracts evil
people eventually attracts the vampires that come to Salem's lot and you have that theme repeated over and over again
with people like um Jack Torrance and the shining in the Overlook Hotel all these people who have
a Darkness are attracted to these sort of places whether it be Dairy Maine or
Castle Rock Maine all these places there's a darkness that they bring out that and it's that light
darkness that attracts and brings out the worst in both things
exactly that's a better way of putting what I was trying to play with I would say
hours that rose red has as a house I can imagine in some hypothetical rose red
extended Universe like before the house was built that people would wander into
the forest on this particular lot and you know all of a sudden they would find
themselves lost and they couldn't get back like I wonder if maybe the land could change itself in the same way that
the house changes itself you remember Crouch end
uh yes I love the short story and the the nightmare in Dreamscape episode
makes no [ __ ] sense yeah um that so it's uh the house is a place
where seepage happens or spillage probably not spillage
it's a thin spot as we talked about earlier yes there's a lot of thin spots in King lore
and these vampire these things as they're
called um yeah that's what they're called Benny's in the Dark Tower series or just places
where it's just weak between the worlds within the tower so this does exit everything exists in the Dark Tower
universe everything from the stories they're into Stephen King himself
um and the guy that hit him with a car exist in the Dark Tower universe and are
explained um but my con the connection to Hobbs end is this whole story did kind of
remind me a lot of what I like about the short story um crouching not Hobson sorry that's a
different thing um except you couldn't really explain it in an hour and I feel like you need that
history and again this does feel like some of Stephen King's greatest hits because I believe I read some notes
somewhere about because King always writes backstories to everything about the Overlook before it was built there
was issues it was also built on an Indian burial ground the whole thing so again King's greatest
hits you have psychic children places built on Indian burial grounds bad places what you could probably also call
Mild character recycling because there are some characters that
are recycled from other works and repurposed I would say we do have a bit of a character insert when it comes to
Emery in the opening of this episode where he's lost and he's going through the house and I do like how he's moving
around all these sets but we know logically that where he's at shouldn't
be where those rooms are like he opens a door he opens the door to a bedroom he's
in the mirror Library he goes to the other end of the mirror Library he's directly at the steps not at the hallway
and he goes up a floor and he's in the um perspective hallway and then he looks
down the stairwell and it just looks like it's endless honestly I thought it was a really good way to start the
episode out because you kind of assume that Emery's [ __ ] like the way you're watching him run around the way
everything has just been happening like consecutively up until this point you
think you're gonna start this first part with Emery's death and then you're just
gonna keep watching him die until like they're down to the last ones oh yeah this episode opens it's bat [ __ ]
everything is gone batshit cuckoo when this episode opens and I really liked it
it really remembers it remembers it really reminds the audience about how
crazy the house actually is and reminds them and you know nobody really knows where anything's at in this house and it
kind of drives that home to help amp up the stakes of when they run off and get lost like Emory currently is I think
it's a bit strange that nothing really comes of Emery getting lost though and
correct me if I'm wrong but you know he just kind of runs around from room to room the house is changing as you
mentioned which is a really cool uh device but then he just kind of finds
his way back and is totally fine uh apart from I mean being he's very shaken
up for the rest of this episode but that's for a variety of reasons well it kind it comes at a cost to him
though because he somehow finds his way back into the main foyer which logically
he shouldn't have been able to do because he goes in one door and suddenly he's coming out the side he's not even
coming down the stairs of the main foyer he's coming out of a side door which
logically shouldn't have happened and he makes it to the door and because of
circumstances that happen tangentially to what's going on
um the door slams so hard it cuts off his fingers
and that hurt me I feel like Emery Emery gets the shaft in this
episode and for the rest of the episode and people are very inconsiderate to
Emery that's just my two cents maybe it's a hot take I don't know what do you guys think
that's exactly what I think too like the whole time you're watching you're just like I kind of understand why he's hysterical y'all he just had all of his
fingers sliced off and you're kind of treating him like a d*ck granted he could be nicer in the way that he you
know presents himself but I mean the man just lost his finger so like I would probably be Ellen and cousin and
demanding what needed to be done for us to get out be done if I was in the situation too so I mean it it really
sets him up I see what they were doing they really wanted him to have like a whole Arc of you think he's awful and
[ __ ] but you know he learns from his ways and by the end of it he's nice like I get it but they don't they don't
develop it well like they just make him shitty and then suddenly at the end he's suddenly nice like there's no transition
there and the characters are against him for no reason every point he brings up
um it's a little bit harsher than maybe it could be but he's still right what do you think Jacob I am so glad to hear
here you say that Dylan and and from what you said Martha I feel like you probably agree yes Emery is a bit
needlessly sadistic with what he says especially as the episode goes on but
he's just right and every character is treating him like he's a monster like
he's crazy when really the gist of what he's saying is just Annie is keeping us
in this house that is trying to k*ll us why don't we knock her unconscious for
like three minutes he even says that he says three minutes would be enough and then we all get out of here
that is a completely reasonable position to take and
yes he just got lost he's lost fingers uh he's he's been responsible for
someone's death who died in front of him uh regardless of how he he feels about
that and his mother missing ghosts yeah and his mother is there uh
uh like of course he's acting quote unquote crazy I I feel like the way that
the other characters are treating Emery in this episode is almost just a flaw
with the story yeah like they are dismissing his ideas so readily that to
me it feels like an excuse for keeping people in the house yeah it's a poor plot device
um I get not wanting to cause bodily harm to her but his idea of put okay we
should probably back up and explain what happened um to cause all this
so Annie is trying to get this model of the
house off of a high shelf and she's using a chair um but she can't quite reach it I don't
know why she didn't use her mind Powers that's another little um plot issue
um but so she goes up there tries to grab it she slips she hits her head and
everything opens up because at up until this point and at the end of the last episode they couldn't get out they
couldn't get out the house the doors wouldn't open and the glass of the windows had um basically become
impenetrable you have people who uh are banging at it with pool cues throwing
chairs at the windows they're not breaking they're not moving they're not doing anything but as soon as she is
passed out everything kind of stops all that stops and the doors open and while they're
scrambling figure out what to do um a voice comes from Annie not her voice that says
I believe it's Ellen's yes it's Ellen's voice that says we seldom have company here at Rose Red I insist you stay a
little longer and that's when all the doors shut and that's when Emory's fingers get locked off by the front door
because he had them in the doorway um as I was saying his idea of just
taking nail polish and having her breathe in a few good times that was very easily dismissed but that
could k*ll her I don't I mean no that seems like one of the more controlled ways to do it
um everything else just kind of seemed like you were either gonna really hurt her um and it wouldn't knock her out and uh
incur her Wrath versus just knocking her out or you
could even do like a blood choke on her to make her pass out I mean to me this is like a really shitty version of the
trolley problem you know it's like oh would you k*ll one person to save 100 it's like no would you knock a person
unconscious for three minutes to save everybody yes yes yeah you do and I
don't really see how everybody is maybe they didn't really develop it well enough there's really not enough people
I feel who are on any side um to justify this like them not doing
anything um I feel like Nick would have been on Emery side in this I feel like Kathy
would have been on Emery's side in this um I even think Stephen would be on uh well
Steve would be on their side as well so it would really only be sister and uh
sister and Joyce who have an issue with it at first I was
going to say that I thought Steve might end up being on any side in that conflict but then I remembered like how
much he hates this house and is afraid of it so no I think I agree with you there as well but for purposes of the story everybody
is on uh her side except Emery's who very understandably
like you lose four fingers there is some uh very important veins that run to
those fingers so not only are you contending with the pain you're also worrying about loss of blood yeah
[Music] yeah kind of just pushed to the side the fact that he lost all four of his fingers they just
wrap it up and he just complains about the pain once in a while but other than that like it there's never any real fear
for Emery's life it'll really act like it's a major deal they're just kind of like ah shitty for you and Marie um but
we're gonna keep uh doing exactly what we're doing before because apparently that's working for us but sorry about
your fingers but it's fine you're alive so you're not dead like uh the rest of them so Emery definitely gets the shaft
in this situation um and when you consider that she's the PowerHouse I feel like you could easily
ride around this whole thing and say oh it's because she's too powerful what happens if we mess up and either her or
the house do something against us you can explain it that way but now
everybody's just on any side what if Annie was even lost in the house alone
and so people wanted to go and try to knock her unconscious but they they could not find her because the house is
protecting her and maybe a bunch of the ghosts are like serving her food and stuff
Yeah well yeah uh well you know placating your life they did with the uh
dolls and the dominoes yes um yeah that would have been a good
written excuse too um and as a kid I really didn't think much
about it I was like yeah you know you can't really can't really do that because you think a lot more on feeling
but you're really just knocking this person out for a couple of minutes
um and you could if you all put your brain together you could probably come up with a good way to do this
um she doesn't even have to be fully incapacitated maybe a sister could talk
to yeah yeah maybe sister could just talk to her and be like hey let's go take a nap are you tired you hit your
head you should probably go rest yeah but then they'd have that plot device if Joyce would be like no no you shouldn't
rest you should hear and play with your new friends like I definitely see Joyce doing that [ __ ] so that's a bit rough
um just watching it for me um it was probably the most don't run
upstairs moment forming that you have in horror movies where they always run upstairs I feel like incapacitating the
kid uh would have done the job and again we're not talking about k*lling anyone we're just talking about knocking them
out humanely for a few minutes for the betterment of everybody
um even if she's not personally holding the doors closed and they're just using her
powers to do it I don't know well I do know it's just
very dumb dumb dumb dumb it's also is it at this point that they mentioned that um or that Nick mentions
that their uh the house is also probably used
yes um
Steve's a psychic is a ham sandwich now yeah that's right
why a ham sandwich she delivers that line with such confidence that it's easy
to overlook how stupid it is yeah well by this point fight your cam sandwich
by this point uh Joyce is kind of she's doing her own thing
um this is very much that transition into 100 cuckoo Joyce uh that we alluded to
in the previous episodes um this whole time she is just gnawing
at the screen and doing everything but foaming at the mouth and again to go off
what we've already talked about Joyce's descent into madness isn't
really explained well enough for it to feel earned I don't think
um maybe we just didn't get enough uh pathos with her
um but there we've definitely explained it to a certain extent that she is a bit
cuckoo but the level she's at right now we never see like a part in the story
where she just breaks um it's just kind of Boom all of a
sudden she's goes from obsessed to being fanatical
I'm constrained because I mean granted it is longer than a movie because it is a mini series but
uh when you have that many characters and you're working on developing that many
characters uh there's you run into the issue of
having enough time to have that proper like show all the
the characters the way that you want to I see I think they just sunk so much time into like Annie and Steve that they
kind of lost sight of really doing working on like showing joyces to me I
think it's an issue of Joyce's motivation uh we talked at length in previous episodes about how she's
clearly crazy from the beginning and there are many there are possible
explanations for this that she's feeling undervalued and under respected in a field that nobody takes seriously etc
etc there might be some other factors into it but her motivation for the entire uh series up to this point has
been get evidence of paranormal activity in Rose Red that's what she really wants to do she wants to get evidence and she
wants to be taken seriously and shove it in the face of all the people that are telling her that she is crazy
and she has evidence there has been crazy [ __ ] going down in
this house for hours now like hours of screen time so like two days worth of
time thereabouts in in the series so she has what she needs I don't really
understand what more she would want at this point it feels like her Obsession moves from proving the existence of the
Paranormal to having some kind of fetish for the house itself which I could see
you arguing is foreshadowed a little bit just with how romantically she talks about it but I I don't think we get to
see that Arc I I think there there should be a moment where we get to look
at her motivations and see like this this change in in goal on her face and
kind of get to understand where she's coming from and I don't think we get to do that I think she just kind of goes full nuts for not really a justifiable
reason I would say that once again just like we talked about with them not
wanting to knock any unconscious Joyce's Madness almost feels like a plot device to me like rather than building it up as
some character trait with a motivation and an arc it's just we want to have a
crazy person be on the side of keeping everyone in so let's have Joyce do that yeah she definitely played a distinct
role in the plot and I think that's part of it too of why they didn't really like flush her out necessarily as a character
was she more or less had a role to play in moving the plot along and impacting
the plot to be basically a giant plot device I think that that's really kind
of what ended up being with her character was just a big plot device to to push it where they wanted to which I
think it's interesting that one might say Joyce's Ark is not as important as other
characters if one of the writers of directors took that position I would be
very confused because I would say that it you can make a decent argument that Joyce is the main character I mean maybe
Annie's the main character but if not then I would say like Joyce is up there right like she's the person we've been
following this whole time she's she's I would say indisputably the main character of part one at least so to
abandon her like this feels unsatisfying I feel like this show would have done
well as a Netflix series
um you could have and just do it through the years you could probably do about one one or
two seasons following Alan do it like they do the show The Crown one or two seasons following Ellen and then another
season maybe there's a group in like the uh 70s or something that go to the house
and stuff happens to them and then you have this group and so now you have like
a good solid four seasons of a program um and you have all this back story all
this other stuff I think that would that would have served the story a lot better and you
would have more time to flesh out characters and uh create sets and just
explore all the cool things that this premise allows yes uh we we talked about
it needing to be a series in one of the previous episodes and I don't want to retread too much ground but I have been
thinking that just this entire time this could have done so well like as a as a
modern uh streaming series because you could have all of the different characters lost in the house in their
own groups going on their own arcs and we could explore all sorts of different fun set pieces within the the rooms that
are created and you could really have time to get to know the characters and
watch them develop because one thing that I find really strange about Rose Red
is that we take an entire episode to meet these characters and watch them
interact and we really get to like them I mean this this movie does a better job
of setting up its characters than than most other horror movies that I've ever seen Stephen King for you
but then it doesn't go anywhere they don't really have meaningful arcs
most of them and and the arcs that we do have are kind of half-assed so it feels
like the reverse problem that a lot of horror movies have where they just jump right into it with cliche characters but
then you know you have an interesting Journey that they go on this was the opposite they were set up really well
and then they don't go anywhere that's that's pretty much how Stephen King operates
um he writes really good characters and really gets you to like them but the
follow through on the story just doesn't it it rarely it rarely pays off yeah I
can't really think of a time where one of his stories ever really paid off well which characters in Rose Red would you
say do have solid identifiable arcs so I want to say sister
um I want to say Steve and for me that's kind of about it because we don't I mean
Annie's just Annie I mean she grows into her own a little bit but the way her
character is it is kind of hard to see like an actual arcs like I I could see like she went through some changes and
she developed she's also also still so young that you know I mean it probably just got her out of her shell a little
bit but I don't think she's really gonna have like any lasting impacts from it other than having a
better understanding of like her abilities and stuff like that and what she can really do in getting to exercise
that a little bit um and be appreciated by people like I think that helped her a bit for the most
part like it's mainly sister and Steve for me because Emery I feel like he was supposed to really have that Arc he just
didn't really get the actual Arc of it um you know you he pretty much just goes
from one extreme to the other by the end of the by the end of the third part like there's not really a transition to it he
just is you know pissed off because his fingers are cut off and nobody's not pissed off because his fingers are cut off anymore he's suddenly really nice at
the very end um and and with uh Kathleen
is she just is her like I don't really feel like I mean she got a little bit braver
but you don't really get to know that much about her um or really have her change anything
really other than she's just you know got a little bit more bravery so I guess honestly for me it's it's gonna be
Steven's sister because they both changed and they both have things and
stories that you actively see make them change yeah I I would agree with that pretty much exactly Steve and sister
have arcs and then Emery and Annie start at Point a and end at point B but
we don't actually see that transition happen it's funny you mentioned Kathy I
because I wouldn't even say she really even has an arc because uh we learned that uh she did she's
doing the whole project because she wanted to get out and do stuff because her therapist said she was compulsive
quitter she keeps starting things to quit things and in fact the whole story is like they don't they don't finish the
weekend so this is just another this is just another chapter in Kathy's
compulsive quitting because everybody left the project early well
well say that quitting in that regard would be if she gave up and they and just died they did they did give up she
didn't die no no Kathy's well yeah but they still she still
didn't like tough it out for the whole weekend I mean would you would have you
I mean I okay look she's a compulsive quitter that's all I'm saying I'm not a
compulsive quitter um this is this is her journey
I really don't think that the rose red uh sleep away camp really applies to her
compulsive quitting uh it's not like you can say oh I'm really gonna see this
through and then you get yourself into a life-threatening situation where everyone is dying around you and so you
escape with your life and it's like oh [ __ ] what a horrible person you are you quit again I don't think that's part of
her Arc elbow what happened it got too hard being in that nice mansion for
three days you couldn't hack it so you left after two oh poor thing there was even iced tea in
the fridge for you Kathy yeah like how about you just stick something out for
once it is kind of weird that out of all the characters she makes it yeah
she doesn't really have much of a purpose she has a little bit of a personality but it's mostly it's mostly
like insecurity in Jesus it should have been her shouldn't have been Nick I should have
been her God yeah that was in my notes um that's probably the most infuriating
thing is Nick dying and the way he dies like they couldn't have done him any
better than that like what the [ __ ] like you wouldn't even think watching it that he actually dies you're like okay well Nick's tough he'll he'll get you know
he'll beat up zucchini you know yeah I would have really liked him to have shown back up and I feel
like that's my Netflix series would have done well because we would have been able to follow that I want
I want psychic battle like I wanted to see him psychic battle the house
and the fact that didn't happen and I mean I guess we should talk about it
because it's relatively one of the the first things that happened in this this part he doesn't make it very far into
the into this third episode guys um nick uh and Kathy or
just trying to get around the house I guess they get lost and Nick just gets plucked off by
zucchini like it's nothing you don't even see him die you just see you know zukina pops up out of nowhere so Nick
shoves Kathy into a room and closes the door basically tells her to keep going do not stop
and basically sacrifices himself to say okay I think she's so great believes in
Jesus so as a person that likes Nick a
lot it also makes me mad that he died and that he died in this way but as a
writing decision I think that it was really good uh firstly I appreciate that we get to see
Nick's character slowly wearing away like for the entire series thus far he's
been very confident very in control he he always knows what's going on in other
people's heads and he's able to offer them advice and guidance and as he gets lost and more and more nervous he starts
to make these awkward insensitive jokes uh and Kathy is like scolding him for it
and he just kind of straight up admits you know I'm kind of afraid right now I don't really know what to do and seeing
that from Nick really kind of instills in the audience the idea that wow now these characters
are in trouble even Nick is freaking out and then him dying is like a
representation of oh that control and that leadership and that knowledge is now gone
so I really think that Nick had to die in order for this story to be as good as it could be yeah he was kind of the
voice of reason yeah character um every every time something was going on
everybody was talking spouting their viewpoints that Nick would always shut it down I love when they see the rats in
that hallway and Nick says it's The Reincarnation of Emery's mother
and then they sing that little song old friends are the best friends they're the
friends you love the most R.I.P Nick he acts he acts so well I just like I
wish they had done better with his death like there was just something like at least give me one psychic [ __ ] battle
like how hard is that to just sh**t and film a psychic battle I mean it's not
that hard so the house is a psychic battle though I don't know but I would have liked to
seen it because we have Nick like unlocking the hallway I'm sorry Dylan no you're good
we have Nick uh unlocking the hallway in the previous episode which I would argue
is a psychic battle with the house so like what are you looking for something like that just more like I
I don't know I would have liked to have like seen him die or like have that confirmation other than at the very end
because like I'm gonna be honest I didn't really think he died I just thought when it was all over they were gonna find him in the house until like
the very very end where you see everybody that died and he's with them and you're just like oh [ __ ] Nick d*ck
died because you don't really see it like you just see getting zucked by zukina like I mean like
I just I don't know I can't help but feel like Nick could have like not dying
by zucchino like I feel like he has the brains and the strength to be like
you're over 100 year old vampire like I'm not like I can just push you off of
me or dust like it's fine like I don't know I just would have liked to like seen something or did it
seem more than what we saw it's like I mean I understand I think I understand the ambiguity of it I think it probably
is for the better like um definitely a good writing Choice um especially when they had him die I do
agree because like that's that kind of is what made Kathy have to stand up and like actually contribute to trying
because like up until that point all of the characters are kind of just relying on him thinking that he's gonna figure
out a way to get out like genuinely he's kind of like the leader so I do I do
agree that it was a good writing choice to to have him go and create the way for something else for the other characters
but at the same time it just felt very unsatisfying and it just felt very empty
and Kathy was running through that Library saying must quit harder
okay okay bad pitch how about Rose Red remake with Nick
played by Gordon Ramsay why Gordon Ramsay because I want I want Gordon
Ramsay running through this house shouting like where's the mirror Library [Laughter]
just like angrily cursing at the architecture Toledo base
but no this house actually is in Washington state um it's a Airbnb and I want to go there
and just pour out a 40 for my homie Nick oh my God yes
the rest of y'all kind of deserved it but not my homie Nick yeah I mean well Pam
I'm still not even 100 sure the mechanics of how she died that was yeah
I mean I know she drowned but like how did she get lured out there and in a trance like who I just don't how was she
in a trance like part two like that whole sequence and part two where they're all like they're all being let
off and like you can't tell which ones are copies or I mean like which ones are
like the actual people and like there's nothing gets done with when Pam leads Kathy off
I mean [ __ ] like it also gets even more confusing it gets more confusing in this
one because we learn that um what's his name
um Bollinger Kevin Bollinger he didn't die in he didn't die in the solarium he died
when he hung himself in the mirror Library yes after he led uh Emery's
mother and yeah so he was still alive yeah he was alive he was just kind of
like a conduit for the house at that point which I'm sorry am I crazy or did we just not actually see that
we didn't see it well we saw we saw um we saw uh Bollinger imitating Emery and
then that's it yeah like this is such a weird
pseudo twist to pull out your a*s and not show on screen
yeah it's one of those things showed her it didn't happen the way that bollinger's seen in the
greenhouse went any reasonable person would assume that means he is dead
that's why they did it they're plot twist that
uh like we're not given any explanation for like what the hell happened like okay what what actually happened if
Bollinger is not dead what creature was Dripping saliva on him and
jumping down from the ceiling onto him and then was just like hey you want to play uh Blackjack like what the hell
happened how was zukina no genuinely I think it was one of what either her Allen like banged out and
drooling yeah no I we we talked about that but
like what did they do like if Bollinger isn't dead then they like jumped from the ceiling no yeah
and did something non-lethal yeah we need a man like we need a man for some
of this dumb [ __ ] like we can't like we can't have one of the girls do this that is very anti-feminist of you
no I'm just saying they're like we don't want to have the girls doing this [ __ ] so you know we'll leave the
grunt work to this this poor sap and uh just wanted to take some pictures was it
like an indoctrinating Pro an indoctrination process where he was like yeah I just really agree with what Rose
Red is doing they got some good ideas I mean the attack the um the tax plan [ __ ] but he
has really good ideas on education reform zucchini is drawing drawing charts on
the greenhouse glass with a magic marker like explaining her ideologies huh
[Music] and then why did he hang himself like if he was already under the
um influence of the house why did he hang himself because the house was done with him yeah I imagine that the house
apparently not because we still see him yeah but at that point he's he's
actually like dead and you can tell he's dead he looked pretty dead before though
yeah but that was more of I think just the actor thing like you calling the actor ugly I mean he's not pretty
okay well rude but okay um
I mean he we want me to say that I'm attracted to a man that I'm not Dylan I mean it would help probably
I don't think those are the same thing foreign
I'm sorry I just don't think the man is attractive okay
and you would be wrong but whatever we're all wrong about some things I just
saw him as mcpoyle okay like I've seen him too many times as mcpoil and it's always sunny and he'll always be in
mcfoyle and he's just and you'll always be wrong so that's that's a lot going on
what else is new when did I ever start being wrong like I mean wasn't there for that
hmm you know how people say it's all right well I've always been all wrong so it's
fine anyways anyway
[Music] so since we were we were harping on Nick
for so long I just want to point out that I feel very Vindicated this episode because last episode we were talking
about what exactly Nick's Powers were and I said that he was a mind reader and y'all were like no he's not he's not
just a mind reader he can do way more than that he just like got generic psychic powers man someone stole my
Scooby snacks and in this episode he like calls himself a mind reader and
other characters call him a mind reader like three or four times I just don't think that's all he can do and I think
if you just because he says mind reader because I think that's his biggest thing but I think over the years he's honed
and developed himself into like a full-blown like psychic extraordinaire you know I still
stand by that and I still think that and I think he also himself toned down his abilities because he doesn't want to be a pariah to the world
you know like I think he has found a nice line between being able to work with his abilities and also being able
to live a life that he wants to live with his abilities so I think he purposely because like if you notice
throughout the movie there's multiple times where he gets glimpses of something and he doesn't say [ __ ] like he's learned to keep his hands
close to his best you know and not really he never wants brags about what
he can do can he he's very very humble throughout the whole thing about his abilities who he
is what he does and a lot of times anytime anyone compliments him he tends to reflect it and compliments them in
turn exactly so like I think that just
because he calls himself a minor that don't mean he's just a mind reader like I think he genuinely like was beyond
that scope he just you know wasn't advertising it what evidence do you have
for that though because it's established that being a psychic in Rose Red has a generic amplifying effect like all of
these characters regardless he gets images he gets like visions of things that are happening way away from where
he's at so I think that goes beyond just like a mind reader yes like in the first part when he was at the at the first
part when they're all at the sports bar he just looks in his beer and he sees uh
Steve and Joyce uh kissing yeah canoodling and he says
um he calls her Dean I wonder why why that is and then he like blows on his beer and it goes away
the image goes away and neither of those people are there
I'll have to re-watch that scene yeah it's stuff like that that just kind of makes and it's just the way he is
about himself in general like he doesn't I I just don't see Nick as the type of
character to ever be outright you know and telling the world everything about him and it also seems
that he's helping Annie push on the wall in the second part when they're touring
the house like if you're just a mind reader you're not you know you're not going to know
how to deal with that type of psychic phenomenon and that was I I preface this by saying that being in Rose Red gives
you an amplified psychic ability forever I mean yeah that's that's stated in the movie I mean like that
he knows how to do it like he's teaching her how to do it like it's it's got to be something that he has some type of
prereference like before to know how to deal with those types of situations like what can help or else he would you know
he would have known like I don't feel like that's something you can feel out like I feel like that's something that
you have to have some type of either experience with or like I've been in
like either a similar situation or just know like a really good understanding of like what your what you're capable of in
this universe the characters seem to have a bizarrely uh specific understanding of of psychic
phenomenon like they act like it's as established a thing as superpowers in like the MCU or something
this honestly to me feels like an Avengers team of Psychics like they each have their own label you have the
automatic writer you have the precognitive you had the what does she call herself a touch C A Touch no
a touch no thank you uh and what well I
feel like I'm missing somebody am I or is that is that it Emery and post cognitives
yeah and so with Vicky would then have a mind reader it even if you even if you guys are right that's a weird decision
for the writers to make because it would be much simpler to have them each with
their own specific power set rather than having four of them with specific power
sets and then one guy who just like does [ __ ] yeah but what I'm saying is Joyce doesn't know Nick
that's what I'm saying nobody but Nick knows about Nick's [ __ ] so Joyce doesn't yeah on his phone Nick is in his own bag
he he presents himself the way he wants to because he knows the type of work he
wants to do the type of work he doesn't want to do he he knows the type of people he wants to work with and the different things
that different you know if he knows himself that if he's this all-around all-in-one psychic he's going to be
getting calls from all kinds of corrupt people in love like all kinds of [ __ ] like he's gonna have to deal with so he
knows as a super intelligent man throughout the years of being part of the community because it definitely is
established in the film that like the psychics pretty much have like an overarching understanding of what normal
psychic ability ranges are what they're like um it seemed built up kind of like a
community um and I mean they work pretty much for hire like their psychics pretty much for
hire that they've they've put their skills out there and been like okay hey like I'm able to do this you know
there's been evidence that I do this I've successful in my line of work I have no complaints like I get
recommendations like they basically make it seem like that um because I mean even Emery has pretty
much like a fee schedule of his Services you know because he's very specific on
you know if I do this in this interview afterwards is this and this much more like it's it's stuff like that that
really laid the foundation that they have an understanding of what
psychic abilities are capable of in this world and I think Nick he probably
either at some point in time learned under somebody or just from experience of being he seems like a very like um
Wanderlust person like I don't Envision that type of character staying in one place super long
um I imagine him having some weird like tragic incident in like his teenage
years early 20s that shaped him into like the the tougher uh man that he kind
of is and is more resilient and um calculated in the things that he does so
I think he just himself just made the decision that it's safest and best for
him if he just presents himself with mild capabilities and can read minds
because I mean that being a mind reader could kind of make up an excuse for some other stuff he might find out
um about people that he wants to talk to them about but doesn't want to express that he knows because of this it's
easiest to just be like I'm a mind reader you know without really um being specific with what the mind
reader entails so I I don't I don't know if you actually answered the question though which I asked which was do you
think it's a weird writing decision to have most of your characters with one
specific named power and then have they used Nick
specifically is like almost a leader Voice or Reason in order to be in that type of position
in the group he a lot of the reason why he is that way is because he's he knows
so much about him like he he's been able to see so many things about them and
just entail like you don't get to see what he's seeing or hearing about them a lot of the times you just notice he has
a look on his face and then after he has a look on the face he usually makes a point-blank comment to that other
character that's pretty accurate that makes the character open up so
it was in ambiguous because like it never outright states that he's got more abilities than the Mind read if that's
just the impression I get from watching the film just from watching the the character and the way that they interact
and stuff and I think it would have been a good writing decision because then there's you know more mystery behind him
and that's kind of what they wanted him to be they wanted him to be a mystery like like almost like a mystery guide
that was supposed to show up be a thing helps set the characters up for their success and then have you know he
basically is like the um Obi-Wan Kenobi of rose red yeah and I'll agree with
that um I mean it in a way it kind of makes sense that the cast would have
um a varied amount of power um because
I mean you think of your job you think of your skill set that you just have personally it's not like you can only do
one thing like you might you might be more proficient at One Thing versus others
but it would just make sense that as far as being psychic goes
um psychic psychic and while one thing is more dominant you can still
and for now and then do a little of this little of that like he says in the first episode yeah that's literally what he
what is this a little of that used to have different interpretations of it and I know myself well enough to
know I'll never let it go so we should probably move on to a different topic that's fine
me and Dylan have the the security and knowing that we we had the numbers on
this one but that's fine anyway but I have one one line
this movie's so full of Stephen King ISM sort of lines that Alma he would come up
with one of my favorite deliveries though is in this episode where Joyce is clearly
off her rocker and she um she's either talking to Nick or
talking to Emery and she says he's crazy can't you see he's crazy
and she's just like why while dying the whole set
um just off her rocker as well um oh yeah it's whenever they're talking about death and how nobody in Rose Red
really dies um because Nick says a true death would be merciful I just really like that line
I I like the line as well but I wish we had more Visual Evidence to back it up
because how often have we seen male ghosts or anything resembling a male
ghost or or however you want to interpret that line actually on screen we see Bollinger
potentially no we don't because he wasn't dead we I mean we see Bollinger
at the end of the episode as a ghost but we don't see him as like an actual ghost
until the end because up until this point he's been alive I have a theory about
that and why they appeared the way they do because if you really pay attention to it when they're all in a group there
at the end the women it they seem more like they're like the other women and kind of like
like they're gonna end up mummified and of course Joyce is is a ghost at the
very end you know ghosty well as the men they just seem like they're shells of
themselves and like it's their actual just bodies that the house is manipulating it's like I have a theory
that that's why men die at rose red and women disappear because I think once the
house is done with the men and they die if their body's taking us whatever but until then they might use the the body
is kind of like just a conduit uh you know to to do some [ __ ] [ __ ]
um but then they don't really care about the soul you know that it's a man they don't really want men there so I think
it's more of just you know we'll k*ll them off because we don't want them here we'll make a little bit of use out of them but if someone comes and collects
the body and takes it out like it's it's no you know far back they're still not around it's like I think what we're seeing at the end when it comes to the
guys is I I don't think it's their actual ghost I think it's their dead bodies
um being manipulated by the house because they just like look different than the other people than like the
women and so like that's why like I and it's mentioned multiple times in the movie Rose Red
doesn't like men it likes women women go missing men die
the horrible fate that Nick alludes to not really present though because if you
die and your body is just used as a vessel like that's way better than your soul being trapped for eternity or or
something like that so I wanted my assumption that was happening my assumption is that if you're a man in
your diet rose red you don't get an afterlife you just completely cease to exist whereas if you died on the outside
you know there's an afterlife there's things that happen to your spirit and and I think with women they're just they
don't even necessarily die I think that they're just condemned there um to to be at at the house is influence
and to be used by the house without any consent of their own at that point lots of things about this house again one
thing that really doesn't help is how laws laws I Fair well however you say it my tongue's not
one to work today um I'll say fair there you go um the
whole cast is about the house being haunted and everything that's going on um I want to talk a little bit about the
scene where Kathy and Nick leave Emery's mother um just
just by herself what do you guys think of that because I think that was kind of shitty I'll open that up to you Jacob
so when I watched this most recently before I watched it for this recording
which was like I think a year and a half two years ago I thought that that was kind of shitty
but on the re-watch I feel like she had it coming honestly
um they were they were trying to be reasonable with her they were treating her relatively politely and she was
still snapping at them she was calling Nick racial slurs act like the very fact
that she's here at all is already like an affront to decency so I feel like
leaving her was justified like get on board or get left
I know there I feel like there would still be a better way to do it
um I don't know I might have just like tied a rope around her foot and then like walked it back to the group and say
hey guys me and Kathy were just gonna hang out in the kitchen for a while so no need to come looking for us we're
good um and naturally knowing what Emery's not gonna get up
um and then they could just at least sit with her for that time being
um they've well established that no one should be left alone hell the only reason uh Nick went with Kathy is
because Kathy was gonna go alone except God goes with her everywhere
responsible and unethical I would say to like tie her up and leave her alone I I
don't think it's a a positive moral decision to make and I
think it reflects poorly on Nick and Kathy for doing it but I also think Emery's mother had it
coming I don't think it goes down to did she have it coming I mean I understand the
logic behind it with everything Emery's going through and everything the rest of the group is going through that's just
one more thing to put on someone's shoulders and it's kind of odd as buddy buddy as
they are at the end of the movie clearly Kathy knew that whenever she left
uh Emery's mother she was alive um so either Emery's come to terms with
the fact that Kathy was complicit in her mother his mother getting k*lled or
Kathy just hasn't really felt the need to mention it okay hot take maybe that's why embry's
happy and friends with them now it's because they k*lled his mother uh well I'd say it did help improve his
life I mean no one's spending crazy amounts of money on credit cards and he can
actually get out in the world and do stuff instead of just being Mommy's little boy
and do mommy Scoot a little Scoot About where they Scoot About to the movies or
for ice cream listen I started calling my car um mommy's a little Scoot About and uh
my boyfriend hates me girl I did too
I pull up and uh to my boyfriend's apartment Chewie his massive golden
doodle um is always popping his head up in the window and it I always mutter to myself oh PC's mommy's a little Scoot About
That foreign
because [Music] Emery's mother and the relationship
between her and Emery is clearly so toxic and dysfunctional and just really
detrimental to Emery's life but it's because of misdirected and overbearing
wholesome love like calling your damn car Mommy's little Scoot About is so
adorable uh I love what he's just like looking out
the window it's like oh his Mommy stop looking at me and Nick is like a little scoot about it you're just asking about
the movies good about the ice cream and he's like stop looking at me
there is a version of his relationship with his mother that is just slightly
different which is just so healthy and happy and cute right
like if it was just a little little bit different well I mean it's not really different it's just boundaries
and the fact that he's a young man just having actual boundaries and he's a
grown man and maybe he should live on his own um and that'll help establish the
majority of those boundaries but you don't have to worry anymore because she's dead you probably can't afford to live on his
own I mean it's 2 000 it's 2001 he could have got in on an
internet startup uh on a more serious he's psychic he's psychic he could be a
huckster I do think it's an excellent point you brought up like Kathy and Nick
are both either directly or indirectly responsible for his mother's death and
they're just chilling with him like nothing's wrong do you think they told him does he know no they never made it
back they never made it well Kathy did but Nick didn't
um that was the whole thing he did though yeah never told him
well I and I think she I think Emery came to the conclusion that she was dead whenever they finally were able to like
leave and they're running out and Emery gets grabbed by his mom and you can tell she's obviously dead and he's like
you're not here he's like not real not real not real and like really uses his like that's like his psychic Flex when
he basically like that last time he like pushes the uh the ghosts back
um you know towards that end and I think at that moment he just kind of he he just accepts it for what it is and
chalks it up to you know she came to the house you know it's just kind of bad because everybody dies here so I I I I I
think it would have been a big like a bigger deal of Kathy had brought it up but I don't think he ever asked I think
he was more content that's what happened with it and you know what ah but at
least now I don't have to pay her credit card bills so yeah dead [ __ ] pay no bills
um probably shouldn't anyway um
not if you do it right as sweet as the little Coda at the end
was and we're jumping ahead a little bit but as sweet as Dakota at the end was
I realistically couldn't see myself going anywhere near that house
and it's relatively soon it's like probably a couple months later because they haven't demolished it yet but
they're all having a little cute scene where we're getting character resolves that are unearned because ooh the
passage of time Anything Can Happen um but I could not see myself with uh going
anywhere near that house I mean sweet they did a memorial but no I'm sorry
you know for me dog what is the black in the park or something
what is the memorial for exactly is it for the people that died is it to commemorate their experience in the
house these were people that died they put a rose down for everyone that died yeah okay I put a rose that Rose's mean
remember um so what is that from is that from
a different movie ain't it no it's from this no that's from is this from Frozen yeah it's from the movie we're talking
about Martha have you watched it no it's just that's not one of those sayings that you feel
like you've heard like a million different places like when you said it I could hear it in my mind like I heard
the line I just it might it was one of those like ambiguous type deals I could see it being in like several different
movies well I I mean I I think it is just a thing like I believe that people do say roses mean that you are
remembering someone you also mean love yeah but like no that's that's the line
at the end I think it's uh Annie that says it yeah and like when you said it I
heard it in Amy's voice like I don't know what's wrong with me maybe I just thought it was Rose or from Two and a
Half Men one thing one thing I appreciated um one thing I appreciated but didn't
think was absolutely necessary was the scene bed at the end when
everything's going on uh where Kathy's lost in the house and she goes to the
attic and she has this whole vision of John ryn Bauer getting k*lled well I
liked it I don't think it was really necessary for this part of the story um I feel like by this point we should
have fully been in the present and the whole Revelation that sukina and Ellen k*lled
John really doesn't resolve anything or
explain anything that would be crucial to the cl*max of this story
yeah no I mean by this point we should be fully invested in what's happening in the present now something in the present
makes sense of something in the past that's one thing but this really doesn't
add anything to the story we're in it just as it sounds separate little bubble what
do you think about that it's also not hard as you're watching it through the first time to assume early on that Ellen
k*lled him because he talks back she hated him and talked about how it makes
the house makes people mad and so when you see he's going through a window and what you've seen of his character you
know that [ __ ] didn't k*ll himself uh he there is no way a man like that would have k*lled himself they he had he got
checked out the window by somebody and she seemed to hate him more than anybody else so she checked him out the window it's it's it's not uh it's not but a hop
skip and you know a way you know for me making that conclusion yourself or that so for them to carve out that time so
later down the road after not even mentioning it for like hours at this point
you know it just it seems like you said like a waste of a scene potential like
they could have done something else with it like you know something to relate to what's currently going on in the present or at least just staying in the present
you know there's a lot different that they could do with that time that they
could have done they just chose not to to waste freaking time on that [ __ ] so yeah no I agree there is definitely
no need for it yeah because it sure wasn't April's withered arm having a*s
any damn conclusion of that neither that's yeah what was with the whole scene where
April uh is in Ellen's dress and Steve tackles are thinking that's going to
k*ll her like I just there's just a lot it's just
a lot that you're you just you watch it and you're like why what are the and that's the way with a lot of Stephen
King's stuff though especially these these made for TV mini-series there's a
lot that you watch and you're just like what the [ __ ] did that have to do with like anything like what why did he write
this like what I just have it's unnecessary like I don't have any further questions other than why the
[ __ ] that's the only question I got chicken butter your two cents
uh referring to John being k*lled by Ellen and zakina like just when they
decide to to uncover that information like some Revelation towards the very end I I I was chopping at the bit to say
exactly what the two of you already said so I don't really have much to add like I don't think that any reasonable person
thought anything other than they k*lled John like yeah there are other potential
explanations but that's obviously the most likely so I don't see why they felt the need to show this at all like I
think that you could have just it's assumed to be true just like you said I don't think it adds to the story it is
honestly kind of insulting to the audience to say that they were like too dumb to get it I would say there is a bit of sexual
tension between Ellen and zucchini in that scene perhaps in the original script there might have been a kiss
there and I feel like that would have helped establish some things um that we have in the story yeah they
definitely [ __ ] yeah um it was also the early 2000s though so yeah but what
we got which was just kind of eh they're like if we put in a kissing scene it'll be like we're trying to copy
the Desperate Housewives and we don't want to do that so we were discussing uh
why did you choose to do that what did you guys think of the suit of armor just
out of curiosity oh they ran out of ideas yeah it was
very Scooby-Doo it was very Scooby-Doo exactly what I thought isn't there like
a scene of that uh like almost exactly in is it the first Scooby-Doo or the
second it's the witches Scooby-Doo no no I get what you're saying it's the
Black Knight in um uh Scooby Doo two monsters unleash but they also do
something with it in the first one it's a it's a very common Trope in Scooby-Doo yeah there's there's also so a suit of
armor and Scooby-Doo and the Witch's Ghost yeah the very start of it when they're in there
Museum oh my God it would be so funny if they did that where it's chasing them
and because the house keeps changing around every time they go in one door they come out another one directly
across from it and they're doing the whole
I need that in my life now speaking of Witch's Ghost though shout out to Tim Curry as Ben ravencroft oh my God yes
friend of the pod love it oh my gosh this is so great and
then also all the bangers I still to this day every Halloween the Hex Girls play
non-stop you know I also love that she they got more music throughout the subsequent films I love that they were
recurring characters they weren't supposed to be they were supposed to be one-offs but like them Hex Girls man well then they come back in the
Scooby-Doo down under is that yes they do yeah they because they're there's the rock competition in Australia and
they're there to for the competition yeah yeah and they were in and they were in uh Scooby-Doo uh Mystery Incorporated
and they were in Scooby-Doo and guess who um maybe a little gas spot on there
um they had a whole um plot like they were part of a whole plot in one of the newer Scooby-Doo animated series I just
like definitely joins them it's crazy I just wish they had more continuity with
it yeah because every time they meet someone they're like it's the Hex Girls
yeah I want I watch old Scooby-Doo so many
times and every damn time they meet [ __ ] Don Knotts [ __ ] Mayberry Andy
Griffith Barney fife's a*s and they're like oh my God it's Don
Knotts like you met him six times homie
squirrels the same way like they're real yeah they've got their own like
um uh fandom now in the Scooby-Doo Universe this would have been a fun crossover though like Scooby-Doo meets
Ellen rimbauer oh my gosh monster really is we need to
do a Kickstarter I think it's some vampire lesbians
you know that's an actual movie right Sapphic suckers
oh my God that's an actual I I love the vampire l*sbian movie it's it's hilarious is it a movie that's
appropriate for families Martha or no that knows that you have to that you have to get from the from the beaded
room at Sparta TV and Appliance it's definitely in the beaded room because there's definitely there's I mean it's
it's it's a movie about l*sbian vampires you know there's t*tties everywhere and they're sistering
I still can't figure out if Sapphic suckers is actually the name of the movie or if Dylan just said that I just
said it okay I would have believed it you're you're more than welcome no it's
actually titled something like l*sbian vampires and it it was it if you watch the
commercials it's very much in the vein as like daily reverses the evil dead or whatever
they're Dale and Tucker whatever the [ __ ] Tucker and tuckerdale yeah that one yeah that one it's very much in the
same vein as that but okay so back on back on the subject when everything's
going just Haywire crazy to kind of reference an earlier question
I think Emery has probably the most complete Arc since his was about
independence knowing what was real and what wasn't real and dealing with his mother he's the only one who gets like a
solid beginning middle and end of his story when he has his conflict with his
mother and he has to essentially fight her uh when he's Jer when he's getting
dragged into the mirror um as for the other characters not so
much I mean Steve's Story Only ends whenever rose red is torn down
um Joyce Joyce wasn't really
evil enough to deserve a comeuppance
um where she dies I mean yeah but it's not like a it's not like
she was c*ck like she was this was her uh uh not Ishmael the other
character in Moby d*ck help me out Jacob the whale
no the Captain Ahab Ahab yeah there was no
um if rose red is the whale there was no you could put Joyce as the Ahab
character but there's not this sort of c*ck sense of anything so I really feel
like she was just a woman whose mental illness exploded and then she died
so there's always I mean I don't feel like she did I mean did she
do things deliberately and intentionally yes but did she do them
because maybe she just had a bit of a mental break like I personally think she
did it with intention like just I think that's part of the reason why she was so willing to like offer any more monies
because she just genuinely thought they were either all gonna die or I
mean she maybe not thought they were died but she definitely knew that there was a risk and she definitely knew it wasn't a dead cell
you can't sit there and tell me that she genuinely believed it was dead and that nothing was gonna happen that they
really just wanted a twitch if she really just wanted to Twitch they would have left after that scream in the damn
hallway after they've been there for five minutes there was your damn twitch because they got it on camera
this yeah oh sorry dude I I know it's all right I I'm with Martha completely on that one like I think Joyce was very
caught uh cognizant of her actions I think she did it on purpose she endangered everyone around her at first
for her own aggrandizement and then for whatever the [ __ ] reason I don't even know
but even if it was just like an expl*si*n of mental illness you still have to be held culpable for your effect
on the world around you she was recklessly endangering these people she was a villain uh and I think that she
kind of got what she deserved yeah okay I see that point
um but what are our thoughts on the kind of cl*max of this story for me it felt a
little bit like you had some fireworks and then you had some snakes and sparklers
yeah um like you had cool stuff happening but then you had
um the [ __ ] uh meh thing in the suit of armor
and lights popping off and I don't feel like it watching it this time it didn't
feel like an earned finale um so weird yeah because they decided to
use Kathy's ability for the auto right like it I don't know just the whole situation of it and how they reach the
conclusion of doing that was going to be it just felt very forced because it felt like it could have happened this whole
time if that could have happened this whole time nothing was keeping Annie from doing that with Kathy it was like
oh here's an idea I'll do the thing that I was brought here to do that and I mean
they just kind of like say it like at that point in the movie there you know that this last in part they're like you
know we're just gonna say things and we're gonna go with it there's not really gonna be any build up to it it's
just gonna be oh we're gonna try this now and that's it's close enough to the end time of the movie we all know it's
gonna work so it's just kind of yeah and that's literally it and that's literally it and that's it with a lot of Stephen
King movies too it's like well help these characters have hung out long enough time to Grand Finale
so we know whatever they're getting ready to do it's either gonna work or they all gonna die because you know he's no he's k*lling that Betty
what do you think Jake what what do you think
[Music] um so I feel like the cl*max doesn't
really accomplish anything meaningful it's just a it's like you said fireworks
and I would use that almost more literally there are a lot of visual effects there's the struggle for them to
escape the house there's the scene with Emery's mother but to me and I would hope to most
people stories are ultimately about people it's about the struggles that people are facing and and overcoming
and I don't feel like we had any great conflict of personality in this cl*max I
don't feel like characters learned anything meaningful from it I don't feel
like Martha and I were talking in the beginning about how we feel like most of the characters didn't even really have arcs to begin with
um and we don't really have any resolution with the house either like it's just gonna be destroyed we didn't
we didn't get a deep dive into Ellen's psyche see her feelings or her regrets
or anything like that this whole ordeal that these characters
went through just kind of feels pointless to me uh like yes they they kind of came out
better for it like Annie's clearly more social Steve is more well-adjusted Emery
has a life now but I don't feel like the struggles that they were facing were in any way
thematically related to Rose Red in the first place no if anything I would say
that um Annie's Annie's coming out of Rochelle is just because of
um is because of uh her going to that school
like a real example of how to do this would be you have a bunch of different characters
harboring various resentments for the way the world has treated him ironically like Joyce actually does and then they
see the way that resentment has metastasized in Ellen and created this
this massive evil uh location in which they are all
suffering and then that kind of leads them toward the realization that they have to deal with the problems in their
own life like again that's very cliche but that would be a way to thematically connect the two
for me there was really no thematic connection this was just Stephen King going like what if we had a big house
dude yeah I mean that's not why Stephen King's I don't know why Stephen King
sounds like that but I think you get the idea I mean I believe the impression
um but yeah it just seemed to like
you were right Jacob the cl*max on the story didn't happen it
wasn't a character motivated cl*max it was just the music Started swelling and
they knew it was about time for them to get off the stage so they started doing stuff that would wrap up the story
um because again at no point in time was there a reason that Kathy couldn't do
the um automatic writing with Annie there was nothing there was nothing
controlling that that could have been a plan a that was just never utilized till the finale
um and there was really no reason why they had to do it then it was just kind of like everybody who had been so
complicit about this haunted house and people dying was finally like you know what this quit being fun let's go ahead
and do this thing that we could have done this whole time yeah and and you know what one thing
that you hear about writing characters with magical powers is that you have to
put limitations on them because you can't create conflict around omnipotent characters and I feel like that that's a
mistake they made with rose red because in relation to the characters I feel like rose red is is nearly omnipotent
we've seen that the with their psychic abilities they can fight back to an extent but with the ability to change
the rooms and impersonate people and like resurrect the dead and attack with
like vampiric mummy corpses uh and and suits of armor but I think
that one was actually Annie I'm not sure uh there it feels like the house could have
k*lled them at any moment at the very least at any moment after the first night like once they got a hold of Annie
properly the house could have just k*lled them all so why didn't it why is it [ __ ] around
uh I don't know to me the how rose red kind of comes off as incompetent to me I
mean I also think part of the reason why it it [ __ ] around with them so much is I think that's part of what Rose Red
thrives on is that chaos because you know like she said like that quote you know the house
takes the on the personality or Essence of like the occupants like I think that
the more chaos that ensues and the more stuff that happens the more that the house can feed on it so instead of just
you know essentially it was playing with its food to be a little bit more enjoyment out of it I think I I would
agree with that but I I don't understand why when it realized the food was about to escape
it wouldn't just be like okay no [ __ ] this k*ll him you're right the house is omnipotent maybe I mean you really can't
explain it Annie being the sort of all-powerful character you can work with
that because she has autism so you're not really sure what she can control and
what she can't control and like we discussed in an earlier episode we're not really certain
um whose side she's really on all the time or really if she knows what side
she's on so that's fun but as far as the house
goes it clearly wants people to stay and it does try to make people stay and then
they the house is easily overcome with the um things at
their disposal like they didn't have to team up or join hands and combine their forces to
um defeat obstacles it was just more of a one-on-one sort of thing I one thing
that would have helped explain this to me is if we could have had a scene of zucchini like hunched over a desk with
an oil lamp going over the film's budget to see like what she can and can't do
with the house uh no because that would have helped to explain some of the
limitations uh and as far as like just k*lling them all I mean I I I would like to know
exactly what the House's plan is because I feel like to a certain extent they don't the house doesn't want to
k*ll them because it's their presence that is bringing the house to life but what is the long-term plan here
well if they are spectral forces they kind of are there
so that psychic energy must stay with the house do we can we confidently state that
though no lots and lots of people have died you would think that would be enough psychic energy already yeah but
this is like the first time we've had like psychic psychics and furthermore
why wasn't Joy satisfied whenever because she was looking for concrete
proof not just readings whatever she had all the stuff on camera she had the um
but the thing that measured the bodies in the certain room and it was full of
people and you could see on camera that a bunch of people dressed in early Millennia clothes were having a party
even though it was just a um recycled footage from a flashback from
the first episode playing on the camera I'm sorry so you're questioning once again like why Joyce wasn't satisfied
with the evidence that she got well yeah that and the power of the house like the
house has all this power she really should have been satisfied with the information she got but
I don't know I just feel like this didn't focus enough on the characters that needed focusing on and it didn't uh
do it it was supposed to um in landing
um yeah striking the landing
um but I still enjoyed it I mean
I'm about to go on a bit of a tangent with some weird a*s questions so if anyone wants to like respond to Dylan
before I do that okay this will be our wrap-up section how about that rapid
fire wrap up come on hit us with it okay okay so you talked
about how if they died and their energy remained in the house
potentially their psychic energy would remain as well but we don't know is that an accurate yeah
okay so the thing that makes me curious about about a phenomenon like that is in
one sense the ability to interact with the spirit world is a psychic power right so oh I did the right thing uh
so once you become part of the spirit world how does that psychic doesn't that
psychic power become redundant because you are by uh
uh nature interacting with the spirit world like would psychic power then give you more of an ability to interact with
the physical world well all these psychics okay so in the psychics we have
they don't really it's crazy you mention it now but none
of them were specified as specializing in seeing ghosts
um which I think is important to note you have precognitives post cognitives telekinetics
um touchnose automatic Riders but you don't have people who specialize in
seeing ghosts it's just supposed to be inherent addendum on that I even though
it isn't directly stated I would say it's pretty obvious that Emery to an extent specializes in that because he's
constantly seeing ghosts he's seeing the past though so and that's a that's a
good statement to bring up is he seen ghosts or is he just in tune with the past I mean if the past includes dead
people but is it really dead people or is it just the past shelling itself well number one
the ghosts talk to him like in the present tense and two do we see him
seeing anything in the past that's not a ghost
not for the context of the story I don't no no so I think it's safe to say that
Emery probably does usually specialize in dead people yeah and I think that
that does have to come with being the post cognitive of him seeing you know seeing things that have already already
passed that essentially could mean people people that have already passed gives him that channel exactly so I
think that you know that's what he kind of mainly does but and then Kathy as an
automatic writer um she can she can do a lot with that
um we know she can figure out people's thoughts kind of read people's minds through it
kind of predicts some things but she even says she doesn't use a Ouija board because the channel is too open so she
can commune with the dead it's just something she prefers not to do so the
original question which I apologize if I interrupted your answer if someone has the psychic power to interact with the
dead and that power stays with them when they themselves die how does it manifest
well I was I mean I guess for this story it's not really
uh relevant but I just probably say that
um just from what I know of other king works it just makes them a more active
spirit I could see that as it were um
yeah from from the things I've read from Stephen King the way he typically writes
ghosts um is that if they since everything's made up of psychic energy if you as a
person already have a higher than usual psychic energy that usually means you're
going to be a more than active Spirit my second question which is sort of the one
that kind of that goes off the deep in a little bit because it's not super rose red related but it's about like the context of psychic powers when somebody
is precognitive or post-cognitive it often feels like there's a range uh like
a temporal range to an extent like if you have somebody in the year 2000 who
is seeing the future or seeing the past they are usually seeing the future or the past within a range of like 50 to
100 years or maybe maybe even two or three hundred years but you usually don't see like thousands of years
passing is that a fair statement to make for most psychic portrayals most I mean I would say so
but the logic behind it is usually it's connected it has to be grounded with
something in their present reality um such a I mean just like people in
their lifetime I've seen certain cases where it show more like they touch a tree and they can see when the tree
falls down in a couple hundred years or but it's connected to the energy of the
objects and the atmosphere around you yes okay so that makes sense because I was
the re my motivation for asking was like what would happen if you had a post or precognitive psychic and then they time
traveled with with the range of their psychic abilities then shift to
accommodate the new timeline that they are in I believe so
I I would agree yeah it's yeah it just it's like it their psychic ability has
to akin to um the psychic frequencies of another
thing and that only goes so far unless you're just like super weird and
you just kind of because there are some psychics in media who were triggered
more by events than people I.E Raven Baxter from that so raven
um I mean I hate to use her but she is a very popular television psychic uh Raven
Baxter people will say something and then she'll have a vision about it but
then again that is the triggering event is um the event itself did you have any
input on any of this wild theorization Martha I mean honestly like I just kind of
agree with what what Dylan had to say about it that it kind of just you know their abilities are Amplified but I mean
going like time traveling though that's a different concept ah I mean any piece
of fiction I've ever read that had something to do with someone abilities time traveling I mean they were always
still able to use their abilities what about non-fiction Martha
um if we were to apply it if if someone with superpowers traveled and no no I'm
just saying in your non-fiction writing I mean in your non-fiction reading about psychics who time travel what have you
experienced or maybe maybe you haven't read any non-fiction psychics going into
the future if not you should um educate yourself that that is a good point I probably should do that if I'm
gonna speak on such matters yeah you're gonna offend a lot of people in the future
why do you recommend you start with um it hasn't been written yet hey he's
like I gotta write that I'll get back to you in about six months to a year no it just hasn't been written because
it's an autobiography okay
JonBenet Ramsey didn't die she just traveled and she just traveled
oh the autobiography of an immortal would be an interesting concept like the life
story of someone who will never die so their life story never ends it's basically you mean the Bible
laughs it's called the Bible Jacob I'm not
making the connection there the life story of an immortal it's the
story of God is is it really it's really it seems
more like the story of random desert people interacting with God yeah and he's like okay I need you to
write this um the tablet in the desert and and we
found it and we were just like at some point we didn't even hear them again this is written on skin
this was written on skin but I swear the Lord told me to write it so I did
um I did some flourishes though so it's a lot better much better
I mean but but then you have people that also believe that some random dude in line the 1600s had spoke to by God that
was legit so I mean we can't offend them they are a major demographic Martha
say something nice nice say something nice about the fundamental Church of Latter-day Saints
[Laughter]
that's very creative and insightful people
I didn't feel like she was being offensive like if you're going to believe that the exact same thing
happened like two or three thousand years ago why won't you believe that it happened 400 years ago I feel like
that's hypocritical [Music] I mean there
you don't have to believe the individual claims that a person makes but to dismiss it on principle I think is wrong
or widely off topic yeah we're we're now in uh we're in a danger zone
the first like 10 minutes of this podcast was about Waffle House I don't know
hey guys welcome to the third and final episode of our uh October long rose red
special uh so I was getting an angel shot at Waffle House the other day and
this [ __ ] made me some french toast and I cried be because my Tinder date was from
Jupiter and he kept talking about having to go feed his kids and then it made me question religion yeah the Mormons were
like hey have you thought about not doing this and instead you know but this speaks to
Stephen King's wonderful writing in that his writing can invoke these things and
invoke these conversations that he meant for people to have and that really and that really as an author is what you
want out of your work to inspire if anyone is offended by anything I have said this episode it was Stephen King's
fault not mine yeah
the views and opinions expressed today are not the views and opinions
um of the podcast as a whole um the views and opinions expressed in
this episode are entirely belonging to Stephen King
not to put words in someone's mouth but you're gonna have to cut all of this
said today is the official opinion of Stephen King
him about it
fight about that one that one is it just me or did we already talk about that in the podcast in another episode
um actually OJ didn't k*ll Nicole Brown Simpson or Ron Goldman it was Rose Red
I mean you think this is bad I've been like storing up this rant in my head
about how Rush Limbaugh is related to Rose Red uh
and like I was gonna do this whole bit about it but I never found the opportunity
Jacob did you have another question to derail the pod no no I think I've done a good enough
job you said you had a couple I did I asked you too oh
[Laughter] does anyone else have anything to add
Dylan County I don't really have anything else to say I think we've gone pretty much off the
deep end here with this episode I mean I know it kind of sounds like we've shot on it a bit but it comes from a place of
love and that's what we do here on this podcast we [ __ ] on things we love it's just rose red does to you it makes you
[ __ ] on things you love um and that's if you throw it and that's
one of the kinky things that John and Ellen did oh you [ __ ] on things you love
[Music] fun on who
I wonder if that's how she got the STD it probably is I mean there was some weird there was some weird stuff in the
book I don't I wouldn't be surprised if uh uh Pooh Play was not on the table
carried by men and suffered by women right yeah yes maybe it was literal
maybe he walked up to her with a turd in his hand and threw it at her [Laughter]
and we need to stop while we're ahead oh my God ahead
[Laughter] what are we ahead of
the track stopped a long time ago
you know I would reference the uh horror Express but uh nobody watched that episode so
they won't get it go watch horror Express okay
what was your joke Jacob my joke what what was your what was your
anecdote about horror Express come on we gotta promote that baby it's a good one it's a good episode too it's a [ __ ]
good movie I don't know why y'all haven't watched it and I don't know why you haven't listened to the episode it's
something I really care about and like if you're cool you're in the know go [ __ ] listen to Horror Express it's
like our second episode quit k*lling it the audience I'll do what I want it's
it's it's it's it's a share of my podcast
we went off the rails worse than the train at the end ah yes
Kelly Savalas would have made this movie so much better the audience is up on the icy Cliffs
just watching us Crash and Burn below well we've talked about this movie for
three weeks so for the three of you that are still here um thank you so much
um thank you for making us a part of your spooky season um and now I think we're gonna wrap up
with our final deep or cut segment and if you're new to this which you
shouldn't be go ahead uh give us a like subscribe that way and be notified whenever the new episodes drop
um you will know that Miss deeper cut segment means we will rate it either
deep meaning we think it's good we think you'll enjoy it or if it should be cut meaning you should probably find
something else to watch with your time but if you know us you know we don't normally do three-part episodes so you
kind of know our opinion on this already Jacob I'ma hand it to you first
so as much as I praised and all of us praised rose red for the entirety of
this this three episodes I have to admit that it falls into the category of media
that frustrates me the most which is wasted potential
when I go to the movies and I see a terrible film I don't care like it doesn't affect my
day I don't think about it because it was just a terrible film but the the films like rose red have the potential
to be amazing there's like so much that you could have done and so many complex
character stories that you you could have put into it and it really made it something and I feel like they didn't do
that no question about it I'm still going to say deep
because I I love this movie and I think that it does a lot of good things but it could have done so much more
so I mean I'm gonna have a just a never-ending array of complaints to raise about how
good movies like this could have been and maybe it was writing maybe it was budget I don't know
but I want that Netflix series see I you know if obviously it's going to be a
deep for me as well I and I definitely agree with what Jacob said about like there's definitely areas that it could have improved
um but just I I think everybody needs to watch this at least once like you need to to experience rose red for what it is
all the ups and the Downs um just because it's just something that stays with you like you think about it
like consistently after you've witnessed a scene from it and you're just like what the hell and it grabs you in a way
that you keep watching even though there's parts that really kind of confuse you and don't make much
sense and there's just a lot more that could have been done with them you still keep watching because you want to know what happens like you want to know and
the thing with Stephen King is you don't really know what's going to happen like anything could happen and just about
everything does happen you just don't know when or why or what and I think
that's the beautiful chaos of it of it is it's just really fun to watch because you don't you don't know what's gonna
happen it's not super predictable um so if you you know if you enjoy that
and you just enjoy Stephen King and then just the style of writing and you you
enjoy you know learning about characters not necessarily getting that development um rose red is definitely for you and I
highly recommend finding a way to watch it or if you're ever presented with the ability to watch it definitely act on it
and you know for sure you need to watch it at least if I can add this little addendum on that before we move on I
love that you talked about how it you know it sticks with you and you think about it because in the very first
episode of this podcast we praised Carnival of Souls for how evocative it was and exciting the imagination and and
sort of inspiring other thoughts and Other Stories and to me I think that's
what Rose Red did like for all its flaws I still possess this deep love of giant
haunted house stories and we talked in the in the uh part one episode of all
the different properties that use this Trope and I love basically all of them and I think that that stems from Rose
Red so so even if this movie wasn't as good as it could be it will probably make me continue to
consume stories of a similar nature for the rest of my life and maybe even write some of my own so for that reason alone
I think it is worth watching yeah I I agree with you Jacob uh for my
closing deeper cut statement I'm going to preface by saying on this show we say a
lot of silly things um but when it comes to movies we don't I tried we try really hard to make this
show not be a voice of the internet and that it speaks too hyperbole in that
um you'll see the latest movie come out or the latest show and you'll see review saying this is the worst written movie
ever this is the worst directed movie worst acting and when you watch it you
can tell people are clearly turning in a serviceable performance it's just not to your liking
um I'd like to say that if that is um the type of person that you are when
you watch movies you're probably not going to get a whole lot out of this um because
it doesn't it doesn't exceed fully in a lot of
aspects but is still very enjoyable um and that is due in part to Stephen
King not that it's the best Stephen King and I'll go even further and say that
the whole mission statement behind this was to get visibility for this project that
people worked on um and is in my opinion one uh still one
of the better Stephen King adaptations out there or Stephen King Properties I should say since this isn't uh direct
adaptation um when you look at the pantheon of his work that is available on media release
there are definitely some flops out there and while mileage is going to vary on
whether or not this is a flop or whether it's really enjoyable
um I I ca I can safely attach that this is on at least
the lower middle of that side at worst
um when you consider movies like Sometimes they come back Sometimes they
come back again and sometimes they come back for more is available on DVD and streaming
currently the lawnmower man The Lawnmower Man Too available to watch pretty much anywhere
a lot of these movies you can watch for free um the list goes on there Salem's Lot there's return to Salem's law all these
Stephen King Pro hell there's we talked about it earlier there's like 12 Children of the Corn movies that you can
just readily watch I believe it's a shame that um the work that was put into this movie could be potentially lost a
Time because this isn't available to watch other than a
DVD release that came that stopped printing in 2006.
um and isn't available anywhere else so your options to watch it or either you have to
um watch it by some other means on the internet I.E pirating although I don't
even though that's not something I wholly condone if it's something that's not available on any sort of platform
where any of the artists who worked on film are gonna uh receive return on investment for their work
or what other option do you have or you can buy the DVD used if you see it out
and about or um on Amazon even though it's listed now for like 50 bucks on Amazon
um but I'm gonna say this is deep because this did inspire me from a very young age to write and to want to tell
stories and it even as an adult Sparks my imagination and my main source of
frustration comes from not being able to sort of peek around the corner uh
there's a lot of times this story uh walks us down a hallway and we see all these wonderful things and we want to
see what's around the corner but the tour stops at the corner right when you
know things are definitely going to get really good um so I'm going to close it out and say
that it is a deep for me does anyone else have anything to add you said you
were closing it and after you close it well yeah but
does anyone else have anything else to say I wanted to point out like you you said
that you didn't want us to just be the hyperbolized voice of the internet and then you were talking about movies that
get uh reviewed like just just ground into the dirt like zero out of ten one out of
ten terrible I think it's important not to do the opposite as well I feel like I see that more often nowadays every
single thing that comes out is just like rave reviews look how amazing this is and
we every single one of us here loves this movie and so I think it's it's good to it's
good that we spent like six hours mostly talking about all the things it did wrong
uh because it's especially important for the things you love to be honest about
the ways in which that they can improve because if all you do is praise something then it's never going to
change yeah and for for perspective um let's take a uh
uh recent well let's take a find a recent movie let's say Disney's
live action um let's see here let me pick one okay
let's say Disney's Beauty and the Beast the live action when that came out um several years ago
um you had a lot of people saying that Emma Emma Watson's acting was just the worst thing they'd ever seen
um and the CGI was god-awful it was terrible uh the worst they'd ever seen the story was garbage this and that
um and while those things are able to be critiqued it's not necessarily true
um especially if you're a horror fan I guarantee you you have seen worse acting and worse performances than Emma
Watson's I guarantee you've seen more special effects um namely because this movie ha I mean
the the product we're talking about right now has those um but it's not necessarily its fault
because it's a made for TV special in 2001.
um and we do do a good job all three of us when we talk about movies to talk
about the things we liked the things we didn't like and it might seem contrary
when we get to the end but like when we talked about honor and the apocalypse we
we dog the whole thing but we said you know what this is actually this is
actually something you should see go watch it no I mean that pretty much goes in line with what I think too for all of
its flaws it's still something that just stays with you and like I said you think about and it's it's just definitely
worth it so yeah I agree just just find a way to watch it and watch it and then you'll understand why for every all the
key points pain points that we hate or that we just don't necessarily like there is a million other things that you
just can't help but just really love about it so so it's just kind of weird that we're closing this out right
because we just spent like three whole episodes six hours talking about it I haven't talked six hours about a movie
cents Carnival assaults um
it's good that it's like the end of our special then right it's like a beginning and an end yeah
so if you if you guys like this episode again make sure you uh rate and
subscribe and also leave us a review on your podcasting platform and your choice
um also you can follow us on social media at dporapod on Twitter Instagram
you can also email us recommendations at Deep cuts of horror gmail.com and also
make sure you join us next week because we are going to be hosting our Halloween special me and Jacob are super excited
about it um so we'll see you all then and until next time stay spooky
foreign
[Music]
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01x03 - Part 3
Watch/Buy Amazon
Focuses on a reputedly haunted mansion located in Seattle, Washington, named Rose Red.
Focuses on a reputedly haunted mansion located in Seattle, Washington, named Rose Red.