50x18 - Lee and Liza's Family Tree

[bunniefuu]

♪ ♪

♪ ♪

BYRON HURT:
Who isn't curious
about family history?

ANITRA HURT:
There was a lot of people that,
and you may feel this way, too,

that you just don't know.

Like, who is this person?
Who is this person?

BYRON HURT:
Where we came from.

Who our people are.

RENARD ROGERS:
We know nothing.

We have to rely on some
of our older family members

to really tell us
what they remember.

I heard that they say
he was a tall,

fair-skinned man
with green eyes and red hair.

BYRON HURT:
My family is on a quest.

So is this the only picture

that we have of Lee Hurt?

JANDRA BONNER:
The only known picture.

BYRON HURT:
We're hoping that DNA testing

can unlock secrets of the past.

BONNER:
We're gonna have to find
the common link

somewhere up in the generations.

That's one way--
how the DNA works.

BYRON HURT:
Because, like so many families
like ours,

our family tree is incomplete.

ROGERS:
Before we started
this ancestry research,

I didn't know
anything about Lee Hurt.

We knew that
he had a, a lot of kids.

[computer keys tapping]

BYRON HURT:
Can science help us
find answers...

FATIMAH JACKSON:
DNA can tell you some
of your family history,

but it's not all-encompassing.

BYRON HURT: ...and strengthen
ourselves in the process?

"Lee and Liza's Family Tree,"

right now, on "NOVA."

♪ ♪

♪ ♪

BYRON HURT:
I come from a big family.

And when I say big,
I mean really big.

[man exclaiming]

BYRON HURT:
It's so big that we have

a national executive committee

with a president,

vice president, secretary,

a treasurer, and a financial
secretary to help

keep our family organized.

We even have family by-laws.

[man exclaiming]

BYRON HURT:
Back in 1984,

nearly four decades ago,
my grandfather's brother

Dave Hurt, Jr., and his cousins

Rosie McGee and Helen Roberts

decided to organize
the first-ever

Hurt-Waller family reunion.

At each of our reunions,
we pay homage

to our oldest known
patriarch and matriarch,

Lee Hurt and Eliza Waller,

who sit at the very top
of our family tree.

They're kind of like
our family's Adam and Eve.

[laughing]

♪ ♪

BYRON HURT:
Lee and Liza had 14 children,

and spawned a long line
of descendants,

but other than that,
we don't really know

that much about them.

Who are Lee and Liza?

And where did they come from?

Who are their parents?

Their parents' parents?
And their parents' parents?

I'm Byron Hurt.

I'm a documentary filmmaker

and I'm a member
of the Hurt-Waller family.

I've always been super-curious

about our family's origins
beyond Lee and Liza.

Like so many families in America

who are searching
for their ancestors,

our family tree is incomplete.

Many European Americans are able
to discover

their family roots
using public records

and genetic ancestry test kits.

But for African American
families, like mine,

the path to learning
family history

is much more challenging.

Since emancipation,

Black families torn apart
during sl*very

have had to work hard
to reunite

and discover the truth
about their past.

My family has no idea who Lee
and Liza's ancestors are,

because unfortunately, we can't
go back any further than 1863,

the year Lee Hurt was born.

So, my family has decided to
take matters into our own hands.

After decades of organizing
family reunions,

we've decided to turn to science

to learn more
about Lee and Liza.

We've created an ancestry
committee to find out more

about our history,

and we're using genetic ancestry
tests

to see how far back we can go.

My family wants to know
if DNA test kits

could help us learn more
about our ancestry,

and even learn more about family
members that we don't even know.

And who knows?

Maybe our journey could be
helpful to other families.

We're not scientists,

and we don't know a whole lot
about the science of DNA.

Look at that big chunk of DNA
in the middle-- you see it?

BYRON HURT:
But we have lots of questions,

and we're eager to learn.
[people talking in background]

BYRON HURT:
Science was my least favorite
subject in high school.

I hated science.

So, when I was presented with
this opportunity to make a film

about science to help our family
learn more about our ancestry,

I was, like, "Me? Science?

What kind of film can I make
about science?"

[people talking in background]

BYRON HURT:
But then I thought
of my two second cousins

Renard and Jandra, the leaders

of our family's DNA ancestry
committee.

They're using a combination of
oral history,

historical documents, and, yes,

science to uncover our family's
roots.

♪ ♪

And they're hoping to do it

by our next family reunion in
Macon, Georgia,

our first reunion since the
pandemic.

[mouse clicking]

Our reunion is one year away,

and I asked Renard and Jandra if
I could tag along

and document their journey

as they go

looking for
Lee and Liza's family tree.

♪ ♪

[computer keys clicking]

There is no written history
of our family's existence

before Lee Hurt's birth in 1863.

But as far as we know,
based on oral history,

Lee Hurt settled

in Putnam County, Georgia, just
a few years after the Civil w*r.

But how did he get there?
We don't exactly know.

But there are a lot
of family stories

passed down
through the generations

about how Lee Hurt arrived
in Eatonton, Georgia.

Uh, he rode in on a what,
rode in on a...

A horse? Yeah, yeah.
A mule or a donkey--
maybe it was a horse...

BYRON HURT:
I heard a mule,

a donkey, a horse.

MAYA ALEXANDER:
I heard he just, like,

showed up at,
was it Milledgeville?

I heard, just, on a horse...

BYRON HURT: Yeah.
...at a bus stop, and then

ran into Liza and then had
a whole village of children.

BYRON HURT: Have you heard any
stories about, like,

how he got to Putnam County

or Baldwin County, anything?

I haven't-- we're still trying
to piece that together.

I would be tickled pink
if we could find out

exactly where Lee Hurt
came from.

Oh, I wished I could talk
to him.

I wished I could ask him
a question.

I just got this feeling
that he was a great man.

I heard that they say
he was a tall,

fair-skinned man with green eyes
and red hair.

They say he was
a reddish-looking man.

My granddaddy,

he was big, heavy, dark skin.

I can see him now,
sitting over there on the porch.

BYRON HURT:
For years, our family

has relied on our reunions to
help build out our family tree.

But so much of our older history
is largely unknown.

Renard and Jandra
are my big cousins.

I grew up with them
on Long Island,

and both of their mothers
are my great-aunts.

I always looked up to them
as role models in our family.

ROGERS:
Jandra and I
are first cousins.

Uh, our mothers are sisters.

We both grew up in New York,

and so she was more
like a sister to us,

'cause she was an only child in
her family and we had four kids.

So she was at our house
most of the time.

Jandra has been extremely
critical in this process,

because she was
much more familiar

with ancestry.com
and some of the research tools

that we have used.

Before I was even interested in
this, she was already doing it.

BONNER:
I wanted to find
more family members, actually.

But since we were looking
for answers to Grandpa Lee,

then I kind of shifted to that.

And so just to try to see if we
could find more of his ancestors

to see where he came from,
that's the initial mystery.

BYRON HURT:
Before the family reunions
began,

our tree looked something
like this--

a handwritten document
created by my great-great-uncle

Bebe Hurt,
one of Lee and Liza's sons.

And with so many of Lee and
Liza's older grandchildren

now deceased, we can't ask them

important questions
about our family's history.

My cousins Renard and Jandra
suggested

that I visit with the elders
in our family

to learn the story
behind the reunions,

what they remember
about Lee and Liza,

and how they feel
about genetic ancestry research.

Out of respect for my elders,

it's only right
that I start my journey

by visiting our two living
family reunion co-founders,

Helen Roberts in Atlanta

and Lee and Liza's oldest
grandchild,

Rosie McGee, in Chicago.

So tell me, how did our family
reunions get started?

MAN:
Excuse me,
Mr. President.

ROBERTS:
I got the phone call
from cousin Dave.

[men laughing]
ROBERTS:
I didn't know him.

And he told me, "I have a nice
cousin over here

from Chicago
that you need to meet, Rosie."

He said,
"Do you know her?"

Mm-hmm.
I said, "No."

He said,
"Well, it's a good time."

MCGEE:
Helen came over,

and we were sitting at the table
and we was having fun.

You know, we like to eat, too,
though.

You know that, don't you?
[Byron Hurt laughs]

And so we just started
to talk,

and he asked me, who was,
who,

what branch
did I come off from?

I said, "Lee Hurt."

I said,
"That's my father."

He said, "Oh, you come
from the man

that had all the kids."

[laughing]
I said, I said, "Yes."

And the first family reunion,
down in Milledgeville...
Mmm.

...I think we had
about, like, 300...

There was a lot of people
there.

About 307 people.

That was, that was the first
one-- I was a 14-year-old boy.


And I was excited.

I mean, I can remember it
like it was yesterday.

MCGEE:
I took a busload from Chicago

down to Milledgeville, Georgia,
for the family reunion.

Everybody just was happy
that they had a chance

to meet cousins that
you didn't know that you had.

How does it feel to be
a founder

of the Hurt-Waller family
reunion?

I feel good,
that's why I made up my mind

to come on over here
this morning

and get this
out of the way.
[both laughing]

[music playing,
people cheering in background]

BYRON HURT:
Since 1985,

we've had 18 family reunions,
and I can't tell you what

the family reunions do for me

in terms of just feeling a sense
of pride,

that you belong to this large
family

that loves you,
that cares about you.

And nothing feels better than
knowing who your family is.

You feel a certain togetherness

and oneness with your people,
your tribe.

And over the decades,

our reunions have allowed us
to build out our family tree

from something like this in 1985

to this today.

But as I grew older

and started to learn more
about Black history

and culture and identity,
I wondered more and more

about our family tree.

Why did it stop at Lee and Liza?

I wished that I could go back
further in time,

further in our family lineage,

but doing that kind of ancestry
research

was so daunting
and overwhelming.

And then, ads like this
Ancestry commercial

gave way to new possibilities.

I was a little afraid.

I mean, as an African American,

I knew where my family tree
might end up.

But I went on ancestry.com
anyway,

and I found out my great-great-
grandfather was born a sl*ve.

He died a businessman.

BYRON HURT:
Suddenly,

genetic research felt less
intimidating

and more accessible
to the average person.

Over the last ten to 15 years,

several companies with names
like Ancestry

and 23andMe have emerged,

offering DNA tests to consumers.

Today, tens of millions
of people in the U.S.

and around the world
have signed up.

And there are growing databases

of DNA samples used to match
folks up with their relatives.

But DNA can also be useful
in ancestry research.

Your DNA contains within it
a record of your ancestors,

because each of us gets one-half
of our DNA from our father

and the other half
from our mother.

So, I have a biological link
to my parents,

and through them
to their parents.

But it doesn't take many steps
down the family tree

before the amount of DNA from an
ancestor gets pretty diluted.

Lee and Liza are just two of my


so only about six percent of
each of their DNA is in me.

We know that Lee and Liza

won't turn up in our DNA tests.

For that, we'd have to have
their DNA, which we don't have.

Genetic ancestry DNA test kits
can potentially help us

find others who share their DNA
and may have information

about our family
to share with us.

DNA is a powerful tool

for the personal information
that it can reveal,

but not everyone is excited
about it for just that reason--

like my cousin Rosie.

I don't think you should go
any further.

This is our beginning, you know.

'Cause most time,
you find something that

is not so pleasant.
Mm-hmm.

When you dig back.

And I just feel
that there's an old saying,

"Let sleeping dogs lie."

BYRON HURT:
To have your DNA tested,

you have to pay for a test kit
and submit your saliva,

which contains
your genetic code.

Over-the-counter DNA testing
commercials

caught the attention

of the Hurt-Waller
national executive committee,

particularly
my cousin Anitra Hurt,

the first woman president
of our family.

[in interview]:
What is it like to be

the president of a family?

I feel like Kamala Harris.

[laughs]
She's going to be the next,
right?

Uh, it feels good.

So you created
the ancestry committee.

Correct.
Why?

There was a lot of people
that,

and you may feel this way, too,
that you just don't know.

Like, who is this person?
Who is this person?

And we, it only, it stops
at a certain point.

"Oh, I know my cousin,
I know my uncle.

I know my great-uncle."

We don't know...
Well, I don't know about you,

but I didn't know much more.
Yeah.

So I just wanted to just dig
deeper into the history,

and, um, that's when I formed
the committee,

so we can see
where it all started.

What are your thoughts
about DNA...
Mm-hmm.

...and, and what DNA
can offer in terms

of helping us to find
our family members?

Well, I think as long as what
we're doing now

is picking people specifically
from each branch,

is good, because, I mean, we,
we're bound to find something

if we put the right people
in place,

as far as whose DNA
we're checking.

BYRON HURT:
Anitra is starting
with a family tree

that already has a large number
of family members on it.

The fact that we have this
amazing family tree at all

is thanks to devoted
family members

like my cousin Annie Bishop,
who, over the years,

preserved
the history of our family.

So about a year
before the reunion,


family ordered tests

and sent in their saliva
for analysis.

I'm hoping that the research
that Jandra and Renard

are using in terms
of DNA research

is really going to give them
a big boost

in all of the research
that they've done so far.

ROGERS:
Before we started
this ancestry research,

I didn't know anything
about Lee Hurt.

We knew that he had
a, a lot of kids,

and those are the ones
we focused on.

We didn't really focus on Lee.

Did you know more about...

I didn't know much, much
about Lee at all.

No, just that Lee Hurt
was, uh,

an ambitious farmer.

ROGERS:
I heard he was mulatto--
I did not know that

until we started doing
some of the research.

I don't, still don't know
if it's actually true,

because we're trying to
figure out

what his mother
and father's race was.

♪ ♪

BYRON HURT:
According to our family's
oral history,

Lee Hurt's father
was a white man.

The term "mulatto" is used
to describe people

of Black and white
racial heritage.

It's a classification widely
seen today as an old,

outdated, and offensive term.

What matters here
is that during sl*very,

white men routinely r*ped
enslaved Black women,

who had no control
over their bodies.

Lee could have been
the product of r*pe,

causing shame and silence
around his birth father.

What complicates this
is the fact

that Black people during that
time were not considered human.

Aside from slaveholder estate
inventories,

census and other historical
records were not kept

for the enslaved before 1870.

However, they were more
accurately kept

for white people,
especially white men.

So finding out who Lee's father
is might be easier

if in fact he was a white man.

Finding Lee's father is critical
to our search

to learn more about the Hurt
side of our family.

Whenever we go to the
family reunion, we see

Lee and Eliza at the top
of the family tree...
WOMAN: Yes.

...as if they appeared,
you know,

like they, they were

our Adam and Eve.
ROGERS:
Adam and Eve.

[all laughing]
Right? Just, like, they're
like Adam and Eve, right?

At the top of the
family tree,

and then everything came
from them.
Mm-hmm.

But when you really think
about it, they had parents,

their parents had parents.
WOMAN:
Yeah.

And their history has been lost
because of, you know, sl*very.

We know nothing.

We have to rely

on some of our older
family members

to really tell us
what they remember.

♪ ♪

BYRON HURT:
Andra Mae is the second-oldest
living granddaughter

of Lee and Liza, and has never
missed a family reunion.

I brought her back
to her childhood home

in Eatonton, Georgia.

It's called a tag house, made
mostly of old license plates,

and it still stands today.

She shared memories
about her grandparents.

HARRELL:
I am now 95.

Do you remember Lee
and Liza?
Yes.

What do you remember
of them?

I remember
they was happy peoples,

and you know they had to be
happy-- they had 14 childrens.

Yeah, so...
[laughs]

There have to be some love
in there, you know?

What do you remember about

this house behind us?

HARRELL:
So, we stayed here
for a long time.

Grandma Liza, she would
wear, like, dresses, kind of,

big, long dresses, and she'll
mostly wear a, like,

a hood on her head.

And Grandpa, he would wear,

he liked to wear them
big straw hats.
Hm.

He didn't dress all up in suits.

Mm-hmm.
He would wear, like,

you know, them high-back
over, overalls.

Most all of them back then
wore that.
Overalls.

Them high-back overalls.
Mm-hmm.

What do you think that Lee and
Liza would think about

our Hurt-Waller family reunions,
if they were alive today?

Oh, they would be proud--
they would.

'Cause it's, the Hurt
and Waller family reunion

is the biggest one I heard of.

What do the family reunions
mean to you, personally?

It mean everything--
I don't want to miss one.

So if I call you all,
I need to go,

so somebody better make a way.

[chuckles]:
Okay, make a way for
you to get there, huh?

Make a way for me to get there.

BYRON HURT:
As I left Andra Mae, I wondered

if she ever thought she'd come
back to her old home,

and that her family would be
using science

to try to learn more about
her grandparents Lee and Liza.

[computer keys tapping]

Our family's oral history
has helped us

fill in a lot of details
about our family tree,

but it can only take us so far.

Since Jandra has done a lot of
the heavy lifting

when it comes to scouring public
records, I wanted to learn more

about her research methods, so I
traveled to the city

of Everman, Texas, where Jandra
lives and does most of her work

uncovering details of the lives
of Lee and Liza.

BYRON HURT:
So is this the only picture

that we have of Lee Hurt?

BONNER:
The only known picture.

For Grandpa Lee, I found
property records

that he actually owned property.

I also found his marriage
license to Ma Liza,

I found his information
on the census,

and I found
his death certificate.

BONNER:
This is the reason
for our journey,

this information right here
that's blank.
BYRON HURT: Mm-hmm.

Initially, I joined these sites
to build out a family tree.

It's only recently that the
DNA portion of it

has come into, you know,
being an important part of it.

BONNER:
I think at this point,

we've exhausted
a lot of the public records.

That, that's the challenge,
so we have to turn to DNA.

You know, that's, that's why
we went that way,

in hopes that we can
find a link.

♪ ♪

BYRON HURT:
Given our history
of ruptured families,

it's not surprising that many
Black folks are turning to DNA

to try to put the pieces of our
families back together.

Slavers captured
and brought Africans

from the west coast of Africa
to these shores in America.

Lee and Liza's ancestors
were likely among them.

My cousins and I met up
with Dr. Fatimah Jackson

on Tybee Island,
near Savannah, Georgia.

Dr. Jackson, a biologist,
is an expert on DNA research,

and fuses science with
her knowledge of Black history.

[on camera]:
Lee Hurt eventually settled in
Putnam County, Georgia, right?

JACKSON: Yes, and, and so the
closest port is right here.
BYRON HURT: Right.

Is it possible
that Lee Hurt's ancestors

and Liza Waller's ancestors
came through Tybee Island?

Very likely-- very likely.

I mean, again,
we never know 100%,

but we can make
a probability assessment.

And the most likely point
of contact

would be a place
like this island.

Why is it so difficult for us
as a family...
Sure.

...to learn the information
that we need to learn

about Lee Hurt's parents,
his grandparents...
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

...Liza Hurt's grandparents,
great-grandparents...

Mm-hmm.
...and so on
and so forth?

Well, our lives did not count

in the way that other people's
lives counted.
ROGERS: Mm-hmm.

You know, I mean,
if, if we ever needed

a Black Lives Matter movement,
it would've been

from our very inception
on these shores.

Our lives didn't count.

Plus, we don't have
the scientific record of Africa

that would allow us
to make the, the bridges

that we know exist,

because we are an African people
in North America.

BYRON HURT:
The big DNA databases
are mostly made up

of samples from people
of European descent,

with a lot fewer DNA samples
from Black people,

whether they are now living
in Africa or the Americas.

The African database
is not robust.

There's not a lot of information
within the database,

because the way
that genetic sequencing

and ancestry reconstruction
works

is that you take an unknown
sample-- say, your sample--

and then we try to match it

to samples that we have
already identified.

If we can't match
the unknown sample

to samples that we have
already identified,

then we have a problem.

DNA can tell you
some of your family history,

but it's not all-encompassing.

[computer keys tapping]

♪ ♪

BYRON HURT:
So, like many families,

our family has very complicated,
complex family dynamics.

We have cousins
marrying distant cousins,

we have multiple marriages
that lead to double cousins,

we have offspring
from those multiple marriages,

and we have children

that are the result
of secret relationships.

In Eatonton, many of those
complicated family relationships

happened right here within this
tight-knit community.

These family dynamics are often
hard to track,

and can make your head spin.

This is where my family's story
gets very complicated.

Renard and Jandra connected
with Germaine Mullins.

Germaine is connected to our
family, but through marriage.

Germaine found information
about

Lee Hurt's family background
through her own family research

on familysearch.com.
[mouse clicks]

Her research turned up a man
named Spencer Hirt,

spelled with an I, not a U,
like our name is spelled.

As a result,
Germaine became aware

of a woman named
Cheyenne Hirt-Lee,

who showed up
on her family tree.

Germaine told Renard
about Cheyenne,

who was also researching
her paternal family tree.

It appears that Cheyenne's
family may be connected

to our family
through Spencer Hirt.

Could DNA prove a connection

between Spencer Hirt
and Lee Hurt?

If so, that could open the door

to finding more information
about our shared ancestors.

HIRT-LEE:
One night, I was on Facebook

and I got a message from Renard,
and he said...

You know, it was this long
message, and he was, like,

"Do you know who Spencer Hirt
is?"
[chuckles]

And, you know, "We're trying to
trace our descendant."

And I was, like, "Spencer Hirt--
Spencer Hirt."

And I looked in my phone

and I had a picture
of Spencer Hirt in my phone.

And I sent him this, and I said,

"I think I know
who Spencer Hirt is."

BYRON HURT: Is that him?
HIRT-LEE:
That's it.

What do we need to know

to determine, concretely,

that these two men here
are in fact brothers?

BONNER:
We're gonna have to find
the common link

somewhere up
in the generations.
Mm-hmm.

That's one way--
how the DNA works.

Mm-hmm.
We have to find that connection
through the relatives.

If we can find some descendants

in certain lines, then we can
reach out for the DNA.
Okay.

I know the answer
is out there.

Okay.
It's just waiting
to be discovered.

Got you, so, you're...
BONNER: I'm hopeful
that there is a connection

between Lee and Spencer Hirt,

because we don't know
that much about Lee Hurt.

And, hopefully,
if we can find out

that Lee and Spencer
are related,

we can find out
who his parents potentially are.

I'm hoping that we will be able

to find the connection
before the reunion.

We really want to be able
to present

what we've found so far to our
family at the family reunion.

And, but again, until we get
the DNA results back,

and until we get the DNA results
back specifically

of who we think are the
descendants of Spencer Hirt,

we won't know for sure.

So, we know that Spencer Hirt

and Lee Hurt grew up in close
proximity to each other.

They were born
around the same time.

They were around the same age.

And so the question
that we have is,

were they full brothers,
half-brothers, or neither?

In order to find out,

we can use the DNA
of living descendants.

An important key
to the piece of the puzzle

is in our sex chromosomes.

Each person's DNA
is contained in chromosomes.

And, typically,
each person has 23 pairs.

The 23rd of those pairs
is called the sex chromosomes,

and there are two types,
X and Y.

Biological females have two
X chromosomes paired together,

while biological males
have an X and a Y.

That Y chromosome is passed down

through the male line
from father to son to grandson,

and so forth.

And it doesn't change
very much over the generations.

If we compare a Y chromosome

from a male-line descendant
of Lee, like me,

and the Y chromosome of a
male-line descendant of Spencer,

and we find huge similarities,

that could mean that Spencer
and Lee had the same father.

Finding Cheyenne Hirt-Lee
was critical,

because her dad is a male-line
descendant of Spencer Hirt.

If DNA testing confirms that
Spencer and Lee were brothers,

we could find out
more information

about the origins of Lee Hurt.

But first, we wanted to find out

if Cheyenne is related to
our side of the family at all.

This is a pretty big milestone,
potentially,

in terms of learning
more information about Lee Hurt.

ROGERS:
We may have found

a sibling of Lee Hurt, and
his name is Spencer Hirt.

He was born around
the same time,

right around the same place,

but that's all we know
at this point.

What, what's key to me
is the fact that

the roadblock
that we have been hitting

year after year
will be removed.

And the fact that DNA
is a large part of it,

because we have someone

who potentially
can be blood-related,

that's just huge.

So, how are you
feeling, cousin?

Are you, are you...
How do you feel?

Right now, how do you feel?
Man, I...

I'm, I'm just,
I'm just excited.

I'm a little nervous, you know,

because I really want there
to be a connection.

I'll be disappointed,
in a way,

but at least we'll know

if, if it turns out
that they're not related.

Hi, guys.
[others greeting]

How you doing?
Good to see you!

All right.
Good seeing you again.

BYRON HURT:
So, Cheyenne,

how are you feeling
right now?

I mean, you've kind of been
on your own journey

to figure out more
about your family.

Um, how do you feel
knowing that, you know,

there could be a
possible connection

between your side
of the family,

or your family,
and our family?

I'm excited, um, I'm nervous.

Um, you know, I never thought
that,

from my tree, that there were so
many branches

that I didn't even know existed.

So, to find you guys, and
you guys find me, just excited.

BONNER:
We're looking at my personal
family tree under Hurt-Waller.

[mouse clicks]

It says
"no matches found."

Mm-hmm.

ROGERS:
Oh, that's all of them.

BONNER:
Mm-hmm-- mm-hmm.

So this is not looking
very promising.

BYRON HURT [voiceover]:
The ancestry DNA results

showed no connection
between Cheyenne and our family.

HIRT-LEE:
I feel that it's too much
of a coincidence,

you know, that our ancestors
were in Eatonton.

I'm kind of disappointed.
[others murmur]

BYRON HURT [voiceover]:
But Renard noticed a name

on Cheyenne's family tree
that gave some hope

that there was a connection

between
Spencer Hirt and Lee Hurt:

Helen Hurt Gatewood.

ROGERS:
Look, notice how she spells it,
too, that's interesting.

H-U-R-T.

♪ ♪

BYRON HURT [voiceover]:
The DNA confirmed

that Cheyenne
and her dad, Michael,

are cousins to Helen.

DNA tests also confirmed
that Helen Hurt Gatewood

is cousins
with Renard Rogers, Hugh Hurt,

and Jennifer Hurt Perillo,

who are all descendants
of Lee Hurt.

ROGERS:
If we look at, uh,
Helen's lineage,

her great-great-grandfather
is Spencer Hirt.

So, that is a big deal.

I'm connected to Helen,
and two of my other cousins

are connected to Helen
that are on the Lee Hurt side.

So, that means that, Lee--
we are related somehow.

So, that established a,
the first real connection

between the Lee Hurt line
and the Spencer Hirt line.

♪ ♪

BYRON HURT:
My family typically focuses

on the Hurt side of the family.

But what about the Waller side?

Jandra and Renard came
across census records

that show two different mothers

for Liza Waller
and her siblings,

one named Matilda
and the other named Dilsey--

another conundrum left
by inadequate family records.

Mary Waller Brown is
on the ancestry committee,

and has been doing research
on the Wallers for many years.

We went to visit Mary
in her home in San Antonio

to settle the question:

Is Liza's biological mother
Matilda or Dilsey?

BYRON HURT: Hey, hey, hey! Hey!
Who is that?
Who do I see there?

Hey!
Finally.

Good-looking lady!

In the flesh.

ROGERS [voiceover]:
Mary Brown

is the first Waller

that I actually knew about.

And it was because Mary Waller
had done research herself

on the Waller side
of the family,

we were able to get a copy
of what she had documented.

It turned into a kind
of a book that she had done,

and so we contacted her

to find out what she knew
about the Wallers,

because we found, thought that,

because she had done that book,

that she would know a lot
about Eliza Waller.

So you are a Waller?

I was born a Waller.

Do you remember hearing any
stories about Liza at all?

Not at all.

I would love
to know more about her.

I'm very interested in family
and, you know, who we are.

BYRON HURT:
Do you know the name
of Liza's mother?

From the information
that I've researched and found,

um, I've found it
to be Desler.

But there have been
some questions

that maybe it was
Matilda.

I don't know if Matilda
is one and the same

or two different people,
I don't know.

I did a book on the Hurt-Waller
side of the family.

And, uh, I did a lot of
research

through ancestry.com.

And I did a lot of clarification
and verification

through my mother,
Louise Waller,

and my sister,
Ruby Waller Ingram.

So do you think that
Matilda and Dilsey

are the same person,
the same woman?

Me, myself, yes, I do.

You think they're
the same person?
I do.

We have a lot of
documentation on Dilsey.

We don't have a lot of
documentation on, on Matilda.

Matilda,
the documentation we do have,

she was born in 1845.

And, uh,
Dilsey was born in 1855.

Those are the,
those are the two documents

that we have that show that.

So, how can we
find out for sure?

I mean, can DNA help us
find this out or what?

BONNER:
Possibly it can,
if we know, um,

who, um, brothers
and sisters of Matilda.

If we could ever
find her, you know,

her maiden name
and research that.

ROGERS:
I wish we could truly
find something more

on Matilda,
and we're gonna find it,

one way or the other.

We'll keep looking,
because she did exist.

The discrepancy
between Matilda and Dilsey

is, uh, it's one
that's very challenging, uh,

to Renard and I
and the rest of the committee.

I don't think DNA
can help with that part of it.

But I think a record--
if I can, if I can find one,

we can settle it
once and for all.

It very well could be understood

that Dilsey and Matilda
are the same person,

because we know,
through all of our research,

that there's a lot of nicknames
being used for different people.

Matilda, we can't find
anything on.

And that, that is frustrating,

'cause we don't really know
who she is.

♪ ♪

BYRON HURT:
While Jandra, Renard, and Mary

were trying to solve
the Matilda and Dilsey mystery,

they also needed clues about
Lee Hurt's life in Eatonton.

So I reached out to a local

Georgia librarian
and information science scholar,

Dr. Shaundra Walker,

who uncovered
historical documents

that provide a snapshot of
Lee's world in the late 1800s.

So, I first found
Lee Hurt in the 1880s.

Um, I found him in the
property tax digest,

and here's the example
of that record here.

You can see.

WALKER:
When we first find Lee Hurt
in the census records,

we see that
he does not own any land.

He's kind of sort of out here

making a life for himself
the best that he can.

As he progresses
through the census,

it is clear that
he is gaining property.

He moves from being
a renter to an owner.

To be a land-owning Black man
in this community at that time,

I think, is a very
noteworthy accomplishment,

and one for which
Lee and Liza's descendants

should be very proud.

BYRON HURT:
Dr. Walker had some new
discoveries about Lee Hurt,

so I had to connect her
to Renard and Jandra.

So, Dr. Walker,

what have you learned
about our family?

I suspect that
Lee Hurt's mother

was a Waller.

[gasps]
So, yes,

and I'll tell,
I'll explain to you why.

So, I believe
that you

already have a copy of, uh,
Lee Hurt's death certificate.

I know
where you're going.
Right.

Death certificates
are very, very important.

Um, in the State of Georgia,

death certificates
don't start to be recorded

throughout the state
until about 1919,

which, fortunately
for African Americans,

as we know,
they're not gonna show up

on any, uh, genealogical records
until about 1870, consistently.

That's the first census
where you find

African Americans
listed by name.

And so that death record,

in listing the deceased person's
father, mother,

their birth place,
their approximate age,

it gives us a lot of information

that sort of breaks
that wall before 1870.

Another vital piece
of information

from the death record
is going to be the informant.

I know that
there is, um, some suspicion

that perhaps, uh, Jim Hurt,

who was the informant,
uh, for the death certificate,

may have not understood
the questions.

BONNER: Right.
WALKER:
Um, particularly,

there's a question on here
about who,

what Lee Hurt's mother's
maiden name was.
BONNER: Right.

And he put Waller.
Waller.

Which is also his
mother's maiden name.
Mother's...

Mm-hmm.
So, it could be easy
to believe that

that was just a simple mistake,

perhaps he didn't
understand the question.

The death certificate
for Lee Hurt is challenging.

Um, we know that
the informant was his son.

And I think
there are some questions

about how the informant
responded to those questions.

Um, one of the key pieces
of information that is there

is a last name for Lee,
for Lee Hurt's mother.

Or that is
at least what the certificate

was intended to capture.

And the last name of "Waller"
is provided.

For the father, um,
no information is, is provided.

I think that it's likely--
um, it is possible, I will say--

that Lee and Liza
were both Wallers,

but whether or not they were,
uh, actually related

is questionable.

I did a little research,

and one of the things
that I found,

I think it was
in the 1900 census--

and this is the same one

where Spencer and Lee
are living...

BONNER: Together.
...very close
to each other,

one house over.
Yeah, okay, okay.

You'll notice
that there is a cousin

in the house in 1910.
ROGERS: Napier-- Napier.

BONNER: William Napier.
William Napier.

Right.
So, what I was able to find

was William Napier's
mother's name.

ROGERS: Mm-hmm.
BONNER: Okay.

William Napier's
mother's name

was Clarissa Waller.

I suspect strongly
that William Napier and Lee Hurt

are cousins
through their mothers.

We know definitively

that William Napier's mother

was Clarissa Waller Napier.

So we have that Waller name,
uh, definitively.

We know that
from her marriage certificate,

and we also know that
from her death certificate.

And so, from there,
we can take the information

that is on Lee Hurt's,
um, death certificate,

if we accept it as correct,
which, which I do,

then that firms up
the relationship

between William Napier
and Lee Hurt,

because the mothers
share the same last name.

BYRON HURT:
Renard? Renard?
Yes.

I want you to be
fully expressed here, okay?
[chuckles]

Okay.
How, how are you feeling
about this, this information

that you are hearing?

I'm not sure where you're,
why you're jumping

to, uh, the death certificate
relative to the Waller name.

I'm just presenting
another...

No, I understand.
...alternative.

Yeah.
And I think what makes me
feel very strongly

about that connection
is the fact

that William Napier's mother
is also a Waller.

To me, that's too much
of a coincidence.

Dr. Walker revealed the theory

that Lee might be
the cousins of Eliza.

That completely threw me off.

I did not want to believe that.

Um, I still don't know
that I want to believe that.

And it's, it's really
kind of, um,

really thrown me off,

because we were on
a completely different track.

I wasn't really surprised
when Dr. Walker shared

that Lee and Liza
may be cousins.

Um, I know I learned about,
a lot in this process

about the mobility, um,
of, of people in general,

in particular, a woman.

And so, oftentimes,

they just knew who was
in and around their area.

And so, you know,
you're gonna love somebody.

And so sometimes that happens.

It has happened.

Did you come across anything
on Spencer Hirt?

Or any relationship
with Lee Hurt?

So, like you, I suspect
that there is a connection

between Spencer and Lee.

Um, I don't think
it's a coincidence.

Um, I was unable to find
Spencer or Lee in 1870 or 1880.

But I believe I heard one of you
say you were able to find...

Based on the research
that we have done so far,

we have found Spencer Hirt
has a father named Spencer.

He was a white sl*ve owner.

So we do know that.

And so, if we can find
the father, uh,

and potentially, we could
potentially find the mother.

If we could just connect,
uh, Spencer to Lee,

then probably Spencer,
the father,

may also be Lee's father.

[computer keys tapping]

BYRON HURT: With the family
reunion in Macon, Georgia,

just one month away,
time is running out.

Renard and Jandra met up
in Denver to do their final prep

for their presentation
to the family.

ROGERS:
We, we have to narrow this down.

And again, how we present
it at the reunion

is gonna be important, because
we'll be mixing everybody up

and making it too complex.

We've got to figure out...

Got to make it simple.
...what is the connection?

Right.

I'm really looking forward
to presenting information

to the family,
because we have found out

so much information
about our family.

♪ ♪

BYRON HURT:
It turns out that

Helen Hurt Gatewood
has two brothers,

Harold and Charles Hurt,

who agreed
to provide DNA samples.

Since they are male-line
descendants of Spencer Hirt,

if their Y chromosomes
match our side of the family,

that would be strong evidence

that Lee and Spencer
had the same father.

Unfortunately,
the Y chromosomes did not match.

But the DNA samples confirmed
that Harold and Charles

are both somehow related
to Renard and me,

so there is a relationship

between Lee Hurt and
Spencer Hirt descendants.

It's not exactly what we wanted,

you know, the end result
of being able

to tell them where Grandpa Lee
came from, who his parents are.

But we have broadened
our family connections,

in particular
on the Waller side.

And we have so many cousins

that are right there
in Milledgeville and Eatonton

that grew up with each other

that did not know
that they were related.

We have never had
an ancestry presentation

at our family reunion

that will help us understand
our family's roots.

And so I'm really looking
forward

to Renard's presentation,

because I think our family
is gonna be really impressed

with all of the research
and hard work

that they've put into learning
more about Lee and Liza.

♪ ♪

Despite the lingering effects
of the pandemic

and a smaller-than-usual
turnout,

the reunion is finally upon us.

HARRELL:
It's great to be back.

I was feeling bad.

I thought once
I wouldn't be back.

But I thank the good Lord.

MAN:
Good morning, everyone.

Welcome to Macon.

MUSEUM GUIDE:
Welcome, everyone,
to the Tubman Museum.

Where's everybody from?

MONIQUE WILLIAMS:
You cannot chart your own path
and know where you're going

if you don't know
where you came from.

And the fact
that we've taken this whole

cookout, dance,

fellowship thing to a deeper
level, and really digging deep

to find out where we came from,

is totally necessary

for us to continue to identify

as who we are, as being a very
strong and resilient people.

BYRON HURT:
After one year of research,

it was time for Renard
to present

the ancestry committee's
findings

to the family.

ROGERS:
We had several
DNA family members

volunteer their DNA.

Bottom line,
this is what we found.

Lee Hurt, we couldn't
confirm his parents.

Unfortunately,
that kind of made,

took us back to square one.

I was very excited
about presenting

what we did have
for the family reunion.

Most of the people in the family

don't know half the things
or one-quarter of the things

that we learned

that we were able
to present at the reunion.

[at reunion]:
We can connect
Lee Hurt descendants

to Spencer Hirt descendants.

If I flip to the Eliza Waller
side, that's totally different.

Eliza's name,
uh, father's name was Wade.

Her mother's name was Matilda.

Matilda looks like
she may have died early,

after, uh, an early
childbirth of Eliza's sister.

So Eliza was raised
by Dilsey Clements Waller.

BYRON HURT:
When Dr. Jackson got up
to present to our family,

it was like a breakthrough
moment at our family reunion.

It was really incredible
to see Dr. Jackson

walk into the room,
walk up to that microphone,

and bless our family
with so much information

about family research,
ancestry, DNA research.

My comments will be
within the, the larger context

of genetic work in what we call
Legacy African Americans.

So the difficulty that
your family is experiencing

in retracing
their family origins

is the result
of a number of factors.

Uh, first of all is the status
of a reference database.

The second is that
the historical reconstruction

of Africa is rather limited.

We refer to colonial names
like Nigeria

and contemporary Ghana
and Sierra Leone,

but those
are not historical names.

JACKSON:
We, as Legacy
African Americans,

when we send our DNA sample in
to these commercial companies,

they almost always tell us,

"You know, you're Nigerian."
[laughs]

Nothing wrong
with being Nigerian,

but it kind of
diminishes

the high rates of variability
and diversity in Africa.

It gives us a,
a kind of a false sense

of what was going on in Africa.

Most of you all's DNA
looks like this.

This is a Legacy
African American woman.

[voiceover]:
The reference genomic database
is currently non-representative.

That's why many agencies
and companies

are trying to rectify
the deficiencies

in the African reference
genomic database.

BYRON HURT:
There are some
very legitimate trust issues

and even fear
that prevent Black people

from taking
genetic ancestry tests

and submitting them
to big companies.

Many of those concerns

are based on a history
of racism in science.

But if we want to have
the ability

to trace our ancestry beyond
the mid-19th century,

contributing
to the DNA databases

could help us increase
our chances of doing so.

JACKSON:
Everything hinges

on who we are.

So what you all are doing

in terms of identifying
your relatives

is absolutely essential

for beginning
to reconstruct our origins.

What's been successful
about this project

is that we've learned
so much more about our family

in and of itself.

For all Black families
trying to research

their ancestry, they will find

that the records
are generally very incomplete.

BYRON HURT:
DNA is so important
to help families come together

and to help families discover,
uh, their ancestry.

It's critical.

But I also realize
that DNA alone,

for Black people,
is not the only solution,

because it can only do so much.

So we need a combination
of historical documents,

oral history, and DNA to learn
more about our family's history.

For those wanting
to start out on this,

I would say ask, ask, ask
your elders questions.

We lose so much information
when a loved one passes on.

Um, look to family books, um,
Bibles, um, death certificates.

You know, maintain all
those type of personal records

that you can get, and then
just, just start the journey.

♪ ♪

BYRON HURT:
Both Lee and Liza

are buried
in Wood's Place Cemetery,

right off of Milledgeville
Highway in Eatonton, Georgia,

but only Liza's grave is marked.

I brought family members
on all sides to Wood's Place

to visit Lee and Liza.

Many had never
been there before,

and some did not even know that
Lee and Liza were buried there.

Just by show of hands,
how many of us are Hurts?

Okay, how many of us
are Wallers?

[laughing]
Okay.

So we're both
Hurts and Wallers here.

And we're here to,
to pay our respect

to Liza Waller and to Lee Hurt.

Um, and we, we know, based on
Lee Hurt's death certificate,

that he is
buried here somewhere.

We don't know exactly where.

But I'm, I'm curious to know,

what does it feel like
to be at Liza's,

you know, resting place?

It's an honor to be here

at Grandma Liza and
Grandpa Lee's resting place.

You know, I've passed
by this area many times,

and I didn't realize
that they were buried here.

Is there anything that
you would like to ask Liza?

I wished
I could ask Grandma Liza,

"Where is Grandpa Lee?"

I know she would know
where he's at.

So I would ask her, "Where is
he? Where's he buried out here?"

ROGERS:
I wouldn't even think
about coming here,

because I didn't know
where they were buried.

I didn't view that as part of
the ancestry research at first.

But it is so realistic.

It makes it so real
to be here at Eliza's gravesite.

We can actually
see the headstone,

and that makes it
very significant,

more significant for me than
I thought it, it would ever be.

♪ ♪

BYRON HURT:
This has been
an incredible journey

for me to document
my family members

working together to learn more
about our family ancestry.

There's no real payoff

for Renard and Jandra
and the ancestry committee

for doing this work.

The reward is sharing
with our family

new information
about our ancestry,

and I think that
that's one of the most

loving things that family
members can do for their family.

Our family is gonna
continue on with this process.

They're gonna continue
digging and uncovering

as much as we can,

so that we can provide
our younger generation

with history that's gonna
give them real solid roots.

So, our family tree is strong,

but we're getting
stronger and stronger

with every passing
family reunion

because we have
committed family members

who are dedicated to learning
more about who we are.

♪ ♪

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