01x02 - Bye Bye Bikini

[bunniefuu]

- [Announcer] And our new
Miss America is Miss New York!

(crowd cheering)

- [News Anchor] An
email scandal rocks

the Miss America Organization.

- [News Anchor] "OMG.
She is huge and gross."

- Sam allegedly called me a
wh*re and also trailer trash.

- [News Anchor] CEO
Sam Haskell, seen here,

resigned today after
emails they exchanged

criticizing past pageant winners
were leaked to the media.

- The old board had resigned.

There were some
outstanding lawsuits.

There was a seven figure debt
settlement that we inherited.

- We were just hoping
to keep the lights on

at a certain point.

Everything just went down.

- We always ask, is Miss
America still relevant?

I mean the ratings alone
would tell you that it's not.

- [Speaker] Time's up!
- [Crowd] Time's up!

- [News Anchor] It may have
begun with Harvey Weinstein,

but that is not where it ended.

A worldwide movement was
born of women empowered

by each other to speak of

their own experiences
of harassment.

- We're right at the height
of the Me Too movement

and our organization
was being perceived

as objectifying women.

- In a lot of people's
minds, it's gotta go.

It's just representative
of female repression.

- [Announcer] Look them
over, boys, look them over.

- Things exploded in
the summer of 2018.

(suspenseful music)

- [Brent] No more swimsuits.

No judgment on
physical appearance.

- A lot of us felt very
pressured to choose sides.

Choose a side. Do you
want swimsuit or not?

- [Man] Quite frankly,
whoever thought

that a little scrap of fabric

would create such a
major controversy?

Certainly not me.

- It soon became clear that

the entire Miss
America community

was in the grips of a civil w*r.

- It started getting
a little bit radical

at that point.

- Gretchen got threats to her
family over what, swimsuit?

- [News Anchor]
Cara Mund claiming

the Miss America Organization
has bullied and silenced her,

singling out chair,
Gretchen Carlson.

- I was almost in disbelief
because it's like,

how could one of us do
this to another one of us?

- The things that they
were doing not only to her,

but to our organization, I mean,

they were flushing
it down the toilet.

(intense music)

- How does an organization
come back from that?

- [Woman] We have to make sure

this wasn't the end
of Miss America.

(intense music)

(soft tense music)

- [Announcer] All
right, now let's meet

our 16 semi-finalists in
the swimsuit competition.

(funky music)

- I decided to
compete purely because

I was tired of writing
scholarship application essays

for school and I was
looking for another way

to get scholarship money.

- Let's meet Kirsten
Haglund, Miss Michigan.

- The body ideal, you have
to look good in a swimsuit.

For me, as someone who had
relatively small breasts,

like you gotta believe,

when I went on stage
at Miss America,

I put like three things
of stuffing in my swimsuit

and then clipped it together.

So I looked like I
actually had breasts.

I had no breasts, like none,

but I won the
swimsuit competition.

So how much of that was real,

winning the swim
suit competition?

Probably not very much.

But yeah, there was
that understanding

that you had to look sexy.

- It's serious when you walk
across that stage, right?

You want to have done
everything you can possibly do

to put your best foot forward.

The tricks of the
trade are passed along.

I have wrapped my
legs in plastic wrap

with hemorrhoid cream
to remove the cellulite,

at least momentarily.

- I'm sure you've heard
everyone talk about butt glue.

I mean basically you just
put glue on your butt

and then you glue your
swimsuit bottoms down

so that you don't get a
wedgie while you're walking.

(funky music)

- Some girls would
like, do mini workouts,

like, right before they went on,

like they're doing the sit-ups
and they're doing the squats

and maybe it'll make
the muscle protrude.

Women put bronzer on
their abs to make them

a little bit more
like, personified.

- You definitely
wanna be spray tanned

because you can see all
your muscles so much better.

It shows everything.

- What I was always
thinking about was like,

for the rest of my
life, there will be

HD footage of my
butt on YouTube.

So I would like
to make sure that

it looks the way
that I want it to.

- [Announcer] Miss
Oklahoma, Susan Powell.

- For me, swimsuit had always
been a nod to the past.

A nod to our beginnings.

- We have come to
the moment of truth.

Our Miss America
contestants and swimsuit.

(whimsical music)

- [Announcer] Boys,
hold your breath.

The girls are fighting it
out with smiles and curves.

- Before they even came up
with the name Miss America,

the winner was billed as the
prettiest girl in America.

That's how they thought of
it. It was a beauty contest.

- [Announcer] The girls who
know all their best angles

turn their backs.

Isn't the ocean view lovely?

- There was one judging
sheet that was awarding

a certain number of
points based on, you know,

the shape of the head,
the quality of the eyes,

the length of the neck,
the length of the legs.

- Easy there, boy. Nice
work if you can get it,

I'll take it. Very good.

(judges laughing)

- The swimsuit competition
generated controversy

from almost the beginning.

In 1921, women were wearing
increasingly clingy knitwear,

you know, that really
showed off the silhouette

in a way that the previous
generation of swimsuits did not.

But they were also
expected to wear stockings,

though of course
some women would come

and they would roll their
stockings down below the knee.

And that was a scandal.

There were a couple of women
who were arrested on the beach

that year because their
stockings were rolled too low.

It was definitely part
of what gave this pageant

its appeal, its spice.

(whimsical music)

- We return to our pageant
runway, ladies and gentlemen,

to bring you the
10 semi-finalists

for the Crown of Miss America.

- In 1968, the fledgling
women's movement

held a big protest outside
Boardwalk Hall in Atlantic City,

and this was really the
first time anyone had dared

challenge the idea
of Miss America.

What are you doing
to these young women?

You're objectifying them,

you're parading them
like livestock.

They also had a trash
can that they called

something like the
liberation trash can,

into which they would
throw girdles and hosiery

and makeup and of course, bras.

This is where the whole legend
of bra burning came along.

(upbeat music)

- I didn't understand
why they were doing it

because there was nobody that
was competing in Miss America

that was doing it by force.

- [Announcer] Miss
Illinois is Miss America!

- You know, the
goals and ambitions

of the Miss America pageant
and the feminist movement

are pretty much the same.

They both want to empower women.

- [Crowd] Hey hey, h* h*.
Sexualizing's got to go.

- Decades later, we're
calling out bad behavior

from men in entertainment
and other industries.

We are looking at
modern versions

of what societal
beauty standards are.

And we're looking at a
Miss America Organization

that presents the same body type

and the same looking woman
year after year after year.

And we were at a place

where we were going
to have to change.

(tense music)

The Miss Americas
got together and had

a lot of discussions
about what to do next.

Really wanting to take ownership

of the future of the
Miss America Organization

and we decided to vote
on a Miss America

to take over as the
chair of the board.

There was a pretty
unanimous decision

to put Gretchen
in that position.

- [Announcer] Gretchen
Elizabeth Carlson,

Miss America, 1989.

- Gretchen basically kicked
off the Me Too movement

and sued Fox News, won.

- [News Anchor] The former
Miss America became

the face of workplace harassment
when she sued Roger Ailes,

a founder and
chairman of Fox News,

after she refused
his sexual advances.

Carlson reached a $20
million settlement.

- She had a lot of buzz
behind her and, you know,

she really stood for
women's empowerment

and everything we wanted
to turn the program into.

- [Interviewer] You're
not married, right?

- [Gretchen] No, I couldn't be.

Couldn't be Miss America
if I was married.

- [Interviewer] Have
you had sex yet

or are you waiting
to get married?

- [Gretchen] No comment on that.

- I think Gretchen was
informed by her experience

being in the program, being
told, "You're too short,

you're not pretty enough,
you're not good enough."

- You're small. That
surprised me, I mean.

- Many have said that
Miss America's always

the Barbie doll image.
Which I'm not at all.

I go to a reputable college
and have a real talent.

(intense orchestral music)

- Gretchen had said to me,
"When you were in the pageant,

did they post your grade
point?" No, they did not.

"Did they say where you
went to college?" No.

"Did they post your
measurements?"

And then I said yeah, they did.

And then she said, we have
to change the narrative.

- We're in this cultural
revolution right now

of the Me Too experience,

to also play that out in the
Miss America Organization

and really focus on that theme

of empowerment for these
contestants as well.

- I didn't vote her in.

I knew from the very beginning

she was gonna be a
train wreck and she was

the worst thing that has
happened to this organization.

Period.

(music concludes)

- [Announcer] Gretchen
Elizabeth Carlson.

(tense music)

- Gretchen immediately
started taking action

and one of the first
things that happened was

we had an entire
new board come in.

- The board consisted
of eight individuals

who were an integral
part of Miss America.

- It, for the first
time in a long time,

was an organization for women,

run by women.

- Gretchen asked me
to come back on board

and start working for
the organization again.

I was very nervous, but
I thought with Gretchen,

there's a lot of
opportunity to do some good.

She was kind of the
antithesis of everything

that was wrong with the
previous administration.

We had board meetings twice a
week. I mean it was non-stop.

There was so much
work to be done,

but Gretchen's vision
was pretty clear.

She started the Miss
America 2.0 campaign,

which was really about shifting
the perspective of our program.

- What do you say
to people who ask,

do we need a Miss America?

- That particular area
that always gets criticism

is the swimsuit category
and I'm gonna be

taking a very
serious look at that.

- The national pageant is just

a few months away in September.

I remember going to Atlantic
City for the annual meetings,

trying to create your footing
in an ever involving society.

I'm so excited to
be here, finally.

You know, you're trying to
win this popularity contest

with networks, with
groups, with sponsors.

- Gretchen was doing a lot of
this. It was consuming her.

She went frequently,
like I would say,

every two to three weeks,
at least once a month,

to meet with ABC.

Gretchen said, we really
need to think about

removing swimsuit
and at that point,

I had even reached out to
our community and said,

you know, how are people
feeling about this?

- A third of us
were in her corner.

There was a third of
us who were neutral.

There was a third of us who
absolutely opposed her position.

- Some of our
members were not keen

to get rid of the swimsuit.

So this was hotly
debated, as it should be.

- [Reporter] Good morning!

- [Reporter] "It is great
to be Miss America."

- It is great to
be Miss America!

- I thought, they can't take
away the swimsuit competition.

That's ridiculous,
and since when

is being awesome not feminist?

(crowd cheering)
(upbeat music(

I've never felt more empowered

than walking on the Miss
America stage in my swimsuit.

You're just like, boom.

Like, you just know
you just look so good

and you're so confident.

Something about wearing a
bikini and high heels is like,

just, it feels
really good. (laughs)

You just know you look awesome.

Like, I am woman. Look at me.

That's female, right there.

- How about you
stop worrying about

whether or not you
wanted to wear a swimsuit

and think about whether
or not the women today

want to wear a swimsuit?

Great, thank you.

- I mean look, we
were trying to change

the very foundational
nature of the program.

It was founded as a
swimsuit competition.

That's difficult.

I mean, we had 100
years of history

and public perception that came
along with the organization.

- Any woman in society feels
pressure to look a certain way.

It can be very hard
to disregard that.

And then when you amplify that
with the possibility of being

on national television
with millions of viewers,

it compounds that.

The pressure to be thin

and to achieve a certain
look was very high.

- As a little girl, probably
around the age of six or seven,

I remember my mom and
her group of girlfriends

gathering around the TV every
year to watch the pageant.

Was I influenced by the imagery

of the beautiful Miss
Americas? Absolutely.

My brain was trying
to catch hold

of anything that was
going to teach me

about what it was to be perfect,

to be the perfect woman.

I had this programming
within me that said,

in order to be taken seriously,

in order to achieve the
type of goals that you want,

you must be thin.

(tense music)

- I say let's make
everyone feel like

they can compete in
this organization.

Like, all are welcome.

Not, let's take it away so that

more people feel like they
can compete. That's insulting.

(crowd cheering)

- So many states
wanted to keep swimsuit

because they saw the
confidence it gave people.

They saw the the change
in women who initially

would walk on stage very scared,

to women that could
now face their fears

and walk on stage in high heels.

- I, at one point, had
pasted that picture of me

competing in swimsuit at Miss
America on my refrigerator.

It is always going to be
that little nagging thing

that sits on my shoulder
that harps at me.

"You must always
look like this!"

Every Miss America
struggles with that.

(tense music)

(crowd cheering)

- While I was competing,
I saw laxatives,

I saw caffeine
pills, diet pills,

things that probably
shouldn't be sold on a market.

I saw prescription drug
abuse, you name it.

I've not had water for 24 hours

ahead of a swimsuit
competition so that

I would dehydrate
myself to the point of,

you can see my muscles
and I'm not the only one.

- I was constantly told
that I was way too curvy,

which is insane because I
would've never thought at

a size zero to two that I
would be perceived as curvy.

The straight, stick-thin
body type was like,

the gold standard,
like it wasn't like

the Kardashian super
curvy, like it is now.

- It was an unrealistic
standard to set

and it's an unrealistic
standard to maintain,

not to mention adding
an entire other layer

of the experience of
being Miss America

with having been fat-shamed.

On a day off, in my swimsuit,
snapped by paparazzi,

and my weight was a topic of
discussion across the country.

(tense music)

- When I competed
at Miss America,

there were women
who unfortunately,

were currently struggling
with eating disorders.

One woman would
only eat baby food,

so she just brought
baby food jars with her

and that's all she would have.

There were so many
women getting sick,

the sick list kept
growing every day.

They were missing rehearsals
and some of that had to do

with, were you taking
care of yourself or not?

(crowd cheering)

- I knew getting
rid of the swimsuit

would eventually, in
the end, save lives.

- [Interviewer] You
battled with anorexia.

- Yes, I did.

- [Interviewer] What
gifts did that give you?

- Oh, my goodness.

I would never have changed
my struggle for my life.

I've learned so much.

It's a horrible, horrible dark
cycle of like, self-abuse.

I've sunk down into
that hole really fast

because at first
it's intoxicating,

but then it becomes deadly,

but you can't get out.

- [Interviewer] So what
was the darkest moment then

that made you change what
you're doing to yourself?

- It was when I
saw that I was not

gonna be able to accomplish
the things in life

that I wanted to accomplish
because I could die,

and I have always been
someone with huge dreams.

(tense music)
(crowd cheering)

I knew how much pressure

the swimsuit placed on
the women competing,

but I saw it get worse.

The body type was getting
thinner and more muscular.

You saw this transformation
of girls from like,

formerly happy,
extroverted, outgoing women

to just zombies.

I saw the negative impact it
was having on young women,

those who we wanted
to be role models for,

and I saw that it was
not worth it anymore.

Those eyeballs of those
young, vulnerable girls

are more important
than you feeling good

about walking on
stage in a swimsuit.

Sorry. Swimsuit does not
need to be a part of it.

(intense music)

- One of the traditions
that the Miss Americas have

is that we get
together once a year.

This particular reunion
that we had was in Florida

and Gretchen flew in

and talked to us about
some of the changes

that were going
to be taking place

in the Miss America
organization.

The biggest change being that
of the elimination of swimsuit.

A lot of us were
very disappointed

to hear that announcement.

We also knew that if the
fate of the organization

and being televised hinged
on the swimsuit competition,

then that's a sacrifice
that we were willing to make

at the altar of
wanting to survive.

- And so with that
very stark reality,

there was only
one way to proceed

because the competition
literally was months away.

- [News Anchor] The Miss
America Organization

announced today that
they are banishing

the signature bikini
portion of the pageant.

- Frankly, we could have
rolled this out better.

I mean, things were
happening so fast

and we did our best to
kind of orchestrate it

'cause there's also
just, people leak stuff.

This organization
is like a sieve.

It just leaks constantly.

(tense music)

- When they took away swimsuit,

they made this whole
slogan, "#byebyebikini."

Almost made it seem like we
weren't good Miss Americas

because we competed in swimsuit

and real women don't parade
around in a swimsuit.

- I found it very insulting.

It should've been,

"We're Miss America,
new and improved."

Because that makes the
100 years of people

who were a part of
this organization

feel like they were a
part of the wrong part.

- Gretchen announces everything

that we know she's
gonna announce

and then she announces
what they're intending

to replace it with.

And at that point

the siren went off in my brain.

(elegant music)
(crowd applauding)

- [News Anchor] A makeover
for Miss America.

Now promising to emphasize
brains over beauty.

In the evening gown segment,

contestants will be able
to wear what they want

while talking about their
ideas to change the world.

- They wanted to change
a platform statement

to a social impact initiative.

They wanted to refer
to the contestants

as candidates instead
of contestants,

which, who cares?

- We will no longer
judge our candidates

on their outward
physical appearance.

That's huge.

- She removed the elegance
of Miss America to me.

Not just with swimsuit but
also with removing evening gown

from being a a formal category.

- I was excited about the
changes that were going to come,

but I know everyone
else was not.

The old guard were very
resistant to change.

- There was so much discord

because the states did
not feel listened to.

It felt there was
only a few people

making the decisions without
anyone else's regard.

(tense music)

- Here's the problem.

You have forgotten all about
the grassroots community.

We have left the heart
of the organization

and it didn't have
to be this way.

- I think the way some of
our changes were rolled out,

you know, I can understand
how that's hard to accept.

That was a radical shift from
what Miss America had been.

- I think we all knew right away

that we were going to have
a difficult journey ahead.

- We talked to ABC and said,

"We want to make this more about
women's empowerment,

not about what you look like,
not the beauty pageant".

They were totally for that.

There was a lot of
data that said,

"Corporations, modern
corporations do not want to

support a beauty pageant.

Gretchen was trying
to tie her initiative

of what was going on
with the Me Too movement

into the direction that
the competition was going

and it wasn't because
ABC wouldn't air us.

(tense droning music)

- It soon became clear that

the entire Miss
America community

was in the grips of a civil w*r.

There are profound
questions as to whether

this new leadership
was any better

than the previous leadership.

- [News Anchor] Former Miss
America, Suzette Charles,

says she and nearly a dozen
other former Miss Americas

feel that pageant is heading
in the wrong direction.

- When it came to people calling
for Gretchen to be removed,

I stepped away and stepped back.

I felt like there had been
a lot of public turmoil

for the program in a
very short period of time

and I wasn't sure we were
gonna survive even that.

- [Announcer] Your
new Miss America is...

Miss North Dakota!

(crowd cheering)

- I had started
hearing rumblings that,

you should talk to Cara.

That's all I would hear.
You should talk to Cara.

And then Cara's letter came out.

- As Mund's reign
comes to an end,

she's written an expl*sive
letter about her experience

adding to what has been
a year of fireworks

behind the scenes of the
Miss America Organization.

- Things cl*max in
late summer of 2018

when Cara Mund, who was
the reigning Miss America,

claimed that she had been
bullied and marginalized,

kept out of TV appearances,
pushed out of meetings,

called by the wrong name,

and she really became
part of the public face

for this roiling rift
within the organization.

It was all over cable news.

- [News Anchor] In a
leaked five page letter

to former Miss
Americas, Mund alleges

the pageant's leadership has
bullied and silenced her.

She goes on to say members
of the organization

have prevented her from posting

in her official capacity
on social media,

and have reserved major
TV interviews for Carlson.

She ends by saying,

"I never expected or wanted
to have to be a whistleblower.

Miss America is
fragile right now.

She needs all of us if
she's going to survive."

- Unfortunately, with
the new branding,

she wasn't the face
of Miss America.

- We were trying to modernize

the kind of image
of the program.

You know, Gretchen's
the board chair,

she's a big media figure.
We wanna hear it from her.

There wasn't any interest
in interviewing Cara.

- I'm sure she felt
like an afterthought

and I don't think
I've shared this,

but there was a part
of me that was jealous.

I was jealous of her courage.

- I was almost in disbelief
because it's like,

how could one of us do
this to another one of us?

- I wasn't surprised that

there was bullying
in the organization

because I feel like we've all
experienced some bullying.

I think that Cara
was dealing with

some pretty harsh
undertones from leadership.

(tense music)

- It seems like that time period

created an incredibly divided,
divided organization.

I think a lot of us felt very
pressured to choose sides.

Do you want swimsuit or not?

Choose a side, is it
Cara or Gretchen?

I think it just created
an even more toxic culture

than was already there.

(tense music)

- It was just, it was a lot of
the political crap

that nobody wants to
be a part of,

but just felt to us, to me and
Gretchen like

you guys are actively
distracting and working against

what we're all agreed on

when we're at a crucial moment,

fighting for our survival.

It was a, it was an awful,
awful time.

(pulsing music)

- Things really
escalated after that.

The states wanted the
resignation of the entire board.

- I did support my
home state of Georgia,

who was one of the voices
standing up against this,

and what happened?

They started to terminate states

who started to stand
up against this.

- The Miss America
organization has terminated

the licenses of four states,
including Pennsylvania.

Former Fox News host,
Gretchen Carlson,

took over the
pageant in January.

Many state leaders
showed their unhappiness

with her leadership by
calling on her to resign.

In response, Miss America
has pulled four licenses,

and threatened 15
others with probation.

- You stand up against
us, we will terminate you.

Like it's just,
it's unbelievable.

And we never thought
that that would happen

at the hands of a
former Miss America.

It's just tyrannical.
It's like a dictatorship.

(soft tense music)

- Days before the show,

there was a palpable
sense of tension.

Everybody waiting to see
what was gonna happen.

- Thank you.
- Thank you.

(crowd cheering)

- Good afternoon everyone.
Thank you so much for being here

and supporting all these
amazing candidates.

To our reigning Miss
America, Cara Mund,

and to your mom,
thanks for being here.

All of us, we are
in this together,

and I find that incredibly
inspiring to me today.

(crowd cheering)

(tense music)

- I was in Atlantic
City for the pageant

and in the night,
someone has posted

all over Atlantic City posters.

Just behavior unbecoming
to what we are about.

- This was a personal
attack on her

and she had people
giving her death threats,

we had to get the FBI involved.

- She had security,
FBI, out front in cars,

watching her house, her
personal house, her home.

Threats to her family over
what, swimsuit? What?

(dramatic music)

- Welcome to Miss America 2019.

We have an amazing show tonight,

so let's kick it off with this
year's 51 candidates, live.

- In the midst of, you
know, all this chaos,

we still had a show to put on

and it was the first
show without swimsuits,

the first like, Miss
America 2.0 era,

and we really needed
that to go well.

You know, a lot of people were
saying we were gonna fail,

that nobody's gonna
watch if you don't have

women up there prancing
around in bikinis.

- Miss America is a dream job.

One that gives the winner
an incredible opportunity

to advance her talent, create
a social impact initiative,

and the chance to make
a real difference.

- Gretchen could not even
sit in the auditorium

because her life
had been threatened.

So she's with security way up
high, producing the pageant.

I mean, there were so many
times when I just thought,

what are you still doing there?

(tense music)

But she's not someone
to back down or give up.

- How do you empower women
to overcome their fears?

- As a woman in technology,

I am empowered by technology

and it has allowed me to turn

my passion for
music into a career.

- You heard the women
talk so much more

and that, I really,
really loved.

- As a broadcast journalist,

I would tell the
story of Miss America,

go to every single state and
share why we're relevant.

We are advocating
for social impact.

- The pageant is
unrecognizable at this point.

They've wanted to make
it so progressive that

it's just not even, it's not
worth having on TV anymore.

- And I love being able
to represent something

so close to my heart,
which is diversity.

- I loved that. It
proved to me that

the swimsuit
competition did not need

to continue being a
component of Miss America,

for Miss America to continue.

It was also something
that my daughter

could now watch the
pageant and understand

that these girls
were so much more

than their physical appearance.

I don't want her to
look in the mirror

and question whether
she's too fat

for someone to love her,

or to accept her, or
to give her a job.

- One of my hopes is to
be a role model and mentor

in support of other
women to also pursue

leadership positions. Not only-

- It's just, there's
nothing to watch.

It's not glamorous,
it's not amazing.

It's not Miss America.

And so no, I did not tune in,

and that's why no one else
wanted to tune in either.

- One of the
reasons why swimsuit

was great for the broadcast

was because it brought
in lots of viewers.

Of course people wanna
turn on their their TV's

and watch half-naked women

walk on stage in
heels in a swimsuit.

That's gonna bring
lots of eyeballs.

- I do think sometimes change
is hard, but change is good.

- We had 7 million viewers
when I won Miss America

and it's just tanked since
then. It's really sad.

- The Miss America Organization
released the findings

of an independent internal
review of Mund's complaints

and it reads in part, "The
tumult of leadership transition

was compounded by dramatic
changes to the organization

and its branding."

While the report supported
some of Mund's complaints,

it says they did not find
evidence of bullying.

- I feel the fallout
of not only the letter,

but the responses, I'm not
sure they were all handled

on all the sides really,
professionally or appropriately.

I feel like we're
all a bit responsible

for the condition with
which we're in right now.

Gretchen has told me that this
was much more painful and

difficult even than her
Fox News settlement.

She didn't want to be the Board
Chair of Miss America,

she had her own life
and career and

she did this, she took up this
job to try to help

the organisation to try to make
it better.

- I know not everyone might have
been happy with the way Gretchen

made some decisions but what we
needed in that moment

was transformation and strong
leadership and we got that.

I believe that those changes
that she began to instigate

have done a great job
for the women that are

competing in the program.

I know this first hand from
speaking to women

who compete now and how relieved
they feel that they

no longer have to get in
swimsuit competition shape.

I mean this is huge,
this is amazing.

(tense music)

- Gretchen ended up resigning,

I think, right before
our 2019 show.

She felt like she
had to move on.

- Gretchen was
villainized by many people

within the pageant world for
how things have turned out.

But this is a TV show that
had been on borrowed time

for a very, very long time.

(upbeat music)
♪ I thought we were over

♪ I thought we were done

- Name another icon of
pop culture that made it

from the 1920s until today.

It's Mickey Mouse and this.

Of course it's dying.

♪ I thought I knew better ♪

♪ I learned my
lesson this time ♪

- God, so much (bleep)
that's happened

in the last four years.

I literally wrote it up
for a recent board call,

like, just a list of everything
that's gone terribly wrong.

Miss America will not survive

if it doesn't continually
reevaluate and evolve.

It's what we failed to
do as an organization

30 years ago, 20 years
ago, 10 years ago.

We made a big attempt
at that in 2018

and I think we've done a
pretty decent job since then.

But society evolves.

No company stands still and
Miss America's no different.

It has got to continually
seek to be relevant

to young people and to sponsors.

- I believe the time
and the need for

a woman with a
crown and a sash

is almost over.

I think she had a good run.

I think it did an amazing
thing for many women,

myself included.

But I don't think America
needs a Miss America anymore.

That's gonna make some
people mad, but that's okay.

- About to see my politician
come out. (laughs)

My hope for the future of
the Miss America Organization

is that everyone
involved, from the board

to the most local of volunteers,

gets back to the root of
why they're participating

and why they got involved
in the first place.

The teen organization
is providing

millions and millions of
dollars of scholarship

to young women
across the country.

Full rides to college.

And whether they
wear a swimsuit,

or an evening gown,
or a potato sack,

doesn't mean anything to me.

So my hope for
the future is that

the people who are
involved either

get back to the root of it

or they just let it go.

(tense music)

- "Rule number seven,

contestants must be
of the white race."

- "It is impossible to judge
the beauty of the n*gro race

in comparison with
the white race."

- When Vanessa
won, it was so big.

- During my time competing,

I very much felt like rule
number seven still existed.

- We still have a race
problem within Miss America.

problem within Miss America.