01x02 - The Eye Is Always Watching

[bunniefuu]

[sirens]

[Lauren Collins] If you're

an expert on serial K*llers,

the first thing people

ask you is, why?

And Stéphane Bourgoin

has this incredibly

compelling backstory,

that he had a companion who

was m*rder*d by a serial k*ller

in Los Angeles in the 1970s.

[Lauren Collins]

This was a quest for him.

It was kind of a way for him

to look the worst of humanity

in the face.

It was a personal catharsis.

It was the confrontation

with these forces of evil

[sinister laugh]

that had wreaked

havoc in his life.

[prison buzzer]

[Stéphane Bourgoin] You know

my girlfriend was m*rder*d.

[Tommy Lynn] I wanna

tell you sorry,

but I don't believe

in the word sorry.

[Lauren Collins] And the story

went a long way to establish

his credibility in

the public's eye.

He's got a profile in

the media, fervent fans,

and even the police

are asking, you know,

"Tell us about serial K*llers."

But there are a lot of people

that Bourgoin betrayed.

Like, I know that he knows

how much pain he caused people.

And he doesn't seem to care.

[sirens]

[birds singing]

[speaking in French]

[Maât] I should have

maybe have been a cop,

or a detective maybe.

But the 4th Eye, we

are not professionals.

None of us is in

the field of crime.

[Maât] But, the

truth is the truth.

And at the time when

we started to investigate

Stéphane Bourgoin, we just

want for him to admit that he

was lying all these years.

[Maât] But then we

start to realize that he

took advantage of people,

like Micki Pistorius.

People who were

not in a good place,

promoting himself

on her disadvantage.

He wants more fame

and more people,

more conferences, and so on.

Even if he didn't have

the material to make them.

For me it's unacceptable.

It's not really something you

can just brush aside and say,

"That's no big deal."

Because he will hurt more

people in the process.

[siren]

[Lauren Collins] At some point,

Stéphane Bourgoin

aligns himself with

The Serial Victims

Association.

This is an organization,

a community really,

made up of survivors and

of families who have lost

loved ones to serial K*llers.

And one of the most active

members of this association is

a woman named Dahina Sy.

[reporter] For his murderous

trail across this region of

France and Belgium,

he is known as the

Ogre of the Ardennes.

[Valak] At some point

during our investigation,

we notice that Bourgoin is

doing a lot of media-focusing

on the victims

of serial K*llers.

But just like everything else,

something feels off.

[Maât] The victims,

he used them as props

to promote himself.

And at the same time,

he was saying that,

"Yeah, my wife was

m*rder*d by a serial k*ller."

[Maât] I think that he really

used that as an advantage.

Because in the French media,

nobody dared to critically

probe anything because

of the "poor guy".

[Maât] But, with Bourgoin,

of course,

it's a never-ending story.

A never-ending story of lies.

So his dead wife's story.

What if his wife was not

m*rder*d by a serial k*ller

or other?

What if the m*rder is a lie?

[overlapping French news audio]

[Maât] My father was

really doting and loving

and really warm.

My mother was more like

the exact opposite.

She tend to have a

really quick hand when it came

to physical violence.

And she pushed me

through a window once.

But she was clever

because she never did it when

anybody was around.

[Valak] I started in the

military when I was 19.

I went to w*r.

I saw the sadness

of that destruction.

[Maât] Generally, you tend

to repeat what you have been

dealt with in life.

Or you take the exact opposite

and you became a really

advocate against it.

The Fourth Eye is exposing the

lies of someone who used those

lies to abuse and cheat people.

And we couldn't let

somebody profit from the

suffering of others.

[Maât] I mean, if you want

to protect the family,

you don't show the

picture at all.

[Maât] His story, it sounded

like a broken recorder.

Except for, there was always

a little detail changing,

which is a bit weird

when you think about it,

that the story was

never consistent.

[Valak] One day it's his wife,

the next day

it's his girlfriend.

The next day it's a friend,

it's never the same.

[Lauren Collins] The 4th Eye

had a hunch that the

Eileen story was the

foundational lie of his career.

It gave him credibility.

But not only

professional credibility,

it gave him

emotional credibility.

Here's someone in this

very sensitive space,

whom people can trust,

because he's been there.

And so the 4th Eye

knew that if they could

prove Eileen was a lie,

they could cut down

Bourgoin's legitimacy.

[various keystrokes]

[Valak] So, from that moment

on, we said to ourselves,

we're going to try to

find what we can find out

about this k*ller.

[Valak] Bourgoin always said

the k*ller of his girlfriend

was on death row in California.

[Valak] That he

k*lled sometimes ten.

[Valak] Sometimes

12 other people.

[Valak] We had been

working on this for months.

The conviction we had was

that this Eileen story was

just another Bourgoin lie.

We soon realized,

the only way we

could end his legitimacy,

was to expose his

lies to the press,

by contacting the media.

[Valak] So we wrote them,

the most popular ones in France.

[Maât] And also, we contacted

journalists that invited him

over all the time.

Pradel, Jacques Pradel.

[Valak] The goal, in fact,

was to stop him from taking

advantage of more victims.

[Maât] Everybody brushed us off.

Everybody.

[Lauren Collins] The

4th Eye felt betrayed,

they felt shunned.

The 4th Eye's been like

living and breathing this

story for months.

Here they thought,

"We're, like,

delivering this amazing thing

on a silver platter.

It's so important, like,

stop the presses."

Whereas for a journalist

on the other side of that,

people didn't

receive it that way.

I mean, they kind of

came out of nowhere.

And they were anonymous.

I mean they were

using pseudonyms.

It's not the ideal

scenario for somebody coming

to you with a story.

[Valak] Obviously, we

weren't editing pros.

We knew if these videos fail,

so does the 4th Eye.

[dramatic music playing]

[sirens]

[Lauren Collins] After

reaching out to the media and

being totally ignored,

the 4th Eye had to regroup.

I mean, in their world,

Bourgoin was like the king.

It felt personal to them.

And so, they decided they

were gonna take it to YouTube.

[Valak] Our title

is a bit provocative.

We called it Serial Mytho,

which means Compulsive Liar.

[Valak] We posted it at night.

[Valak] We say to ourselves

if tomorrow we get 100 views,

we'll be happy.

The next day, it starts

to go up, 500, 600, 700.

Not bad.

[Maât] And we were, like, wow,

it's spreading

like a drop of oil.

[Valak] So, we went

back to our files,

with all the lies

we've documented.

[Valak] We're going to try

to make a video once a week.

[Maât] It was like, wow.

People going,

"They are nobodies.

You are jealous.

You just want money."

[Lauren Collins] There's no

formal mechanism to punish

somebody who crosses

lines in this field.

I mean there's no disbarment,

there's no losing

your medical license.

It's up to the

audience really, the fans.

[Lauren Collins] Once people

start to kind of smell there's

blood in the water,

it's kind of a pile-on,

and there are all these

fans who are like,

combing through his

stuff, looking for clues,

trying to figure out

what he's covering up.

One of the kind of

most tantalizing clues in

some fans' eyes,

was his pseudonym,

Étienne Jallieu.

So Étienne Jallieu is a

pseudonym that Bourgoin used

for years on some

of his, kind of,

boundary-pushing books about

some really disturbing stuff.

A group of fans realized

that Étienne Jallieu was a

near-anagram for

"J'ai tué Eileen,"

which is "I k*lled Eileen"

in French.

And that seemed to

some people, like,

just way too much

of a coincidence.

[Valak] The biggest platform

that Stéphane Bourgoin had

was his Facebook.

So when he closed his page,

that cut off

communication with his fans.

[Maât] We had people submitting

to us that Étienne Jallieu

is the anagram of

"I k*lled Eileen."

For me, it was a

bit far-fetched.

I said, let's try not to be the

guy who is in the basement of

his mother, going,

"Ha, ha, ha, I'm gonna get you,

ha, ha, ha."

No.

That was not the goal of it.

[Maât] We never called him.

It was always in public.

And we were always

asking people on our page

to not harass him.

We wanted the facts

and only the facts.

[Valak] Every time

we published a video,

we hope it would create a buzz.

And when there's a buzz,

the journalists notice.

After months of work,

it paid off.

-We just went like

[sighs]

finally.

[Valak] Then, the

media took over.

[Valak] It was Stéphane Bourgoin

who became the story.

[Maât] The attention

of the media,

articles, and stuff,

once we got one,

it became a deluge.

[Sven] When the media

realized what we have done,

we felt relief and joy.

But we were angry because

the journalists had turned

a blind eye.

It's frustrating to have

given him so much viewership

when he didn't deserve it.

[Maxime Chattam] Some

friend of mine sent me a

text message and told me,

"Have you seen the

video about Stéphane Bourgoin

telling he is a liar?"

And I was like, "Nope."

And I went on the Internet,

and I watched it,

and I said, "Wow."

And I had to face the

truth that Stéphane Bourgoin

is probably a liar.

And I think a lot of people

felt this personal failure

because they knew him.

And actually, the truth

came from YouTube, you know,

it's not the journalists.

What I do remember,

is that I thought,

what is he going to do now?

[Lauren Collins] In

the spring of 2020,

you have a flurry of articles

come out about Bourgoin's lies.

And Bourgoin kind of lies

low and isn't really in the

public eye for a while.

Nobody's really sure, like,

how he's gonna respond to this.

And then, in May of 2020,

Paris Match,

which is like People Magazine,

combined with something like

what News Week used to be.

They drop their big, you know,

Stéphane Bourgoin exclusive.

And Paris Match has

this huge readership.

It's kind of the first time

that your average reader with

his café and croissant

in the morning,

is like hearing the

Stéphane Bourgoin story.

And it's Bourgoin for the first

time answering questions about

what exactly happened.

[Valak] When we saw the article

in Paris Match, we were happy.

It's a big deal.

We thought, it's done,

we've reached the goal.

It was our research and

evidence that forced him to

talk about his lies.

He definitely doesn't

admit to everything,

but he admits to a lot.

He admits to faking

FBI credentials.

[Valak] When he talks about

claiming he had parts of

Schaefer's body at home,

he says it's a joke.

For Eileen, he says

he invented the name,

but that someone he

knew really died.

With regards to Eileen, we said

we may never actually know.

We thought it's done.

[Sven laughs]

[Maât] The very

same evening, he posts.

And he said that he never

actually met that journalist

from the Paris Match.

I'm like, what?

[sarcastic chuckle]

What, what?

[Lauren Collins]

Once the story gets picked up

in the media,

the 4th Eye felt like they

delivered this bombshell.

But as soon as he

makes the confession,

he then kinda tries to unwind

it and walk it back by claiming

Paris Match has wildly

misrepresented him and can't be

trusted as a source.

It was all kind of fine points

of semantics rather than

anything of substance.

But nonetheless, to cast doubt

over the entire conversation.

[Valak] We looked at

each other and said,

"So he didn't get it at all."

[Maât] He's trying to climb

back under the limelight.

[Valak] We thought it would

be suicidal for the media to

invite him on again.

[Valak] He's done, he's gone,

we won't see him again.

[Valak] But I'm always

a pessimist when it

comes to Bourgoin.

[Lauren Collins] This is a

really serious inflection point.

His sense of responsibility,

or accountability,

or contrition doesn't seem

to have progressed at all.

And right in the

middle of, you know,

all of this stuff

being adjudicated,

he releases a new book.

I mean, he's doubling down.

[Valak] For me, it's the most

disgusting thing he's ever done.

[somber music playing]

[cell phone buzzing]

[sirens]

[Lauren Collins] After

Bourgoin's lies had become

public, he's still defiant.

But then, the story starts to

hit the international press.

An article comes out.

It's no longer this parochial

French culture story,

but an international

true crime affair.

You have pieces on CNN, VOX,

The New York Post,

Daily Mail, Fox News.

"French serial k*ller expert

admits his career is

built on lies."

"French serial k*ller

expert admits serial lies."

"Serial expert exposed."

I'd click, wouldn't you?

Bourgoin gets sidelined.

People start to distance

themselves from him.

Publishers drop him.

Media invites dry up.

Bourgoin is effectively

persona non grata.

And so the 4th Eye

feels vindicated.

[humming]

[Maât] Come on, yep.

That's one.

I hope that the fact that

we did what we did

Mm-hmm.

will prove to victims that

somebody cares about them.

Voila.

Which, I'm hoping it's

finally finishing.

Ah! Mmm.

When this all started

to get really serious,

I had just been diagnosed with

relapse of my breast cancer

that I had in 2012.

And I had to find a

way to occupy myself.

So maybe it carried

me a bit as well.

[Valak] It was a game.

24 hours, it was only Bourgoin.

Only Bourgoin.

My wife, I'm the first

to say it, she suffered.

There were tensions.

[Maât] I don't know how

the balance is exactly between

the good and the bad.

But I think I have been useful

because I love to be useful.

I don't have a crystal ball,

so I don't know

what the future holds.

But I think he knows

we are watching.

[in French] Sound, speed.

Quiet, please.

[in French] Interview, take one.

[Lauren Collins] Hello.

-I actually think it's a true

crime story about true crime.

Bourgoin was a voleur de vie,

a life thief.

He took every role in

the true crime repertory.

Victim, law enforcement, media.

[Lauren Collins]

Investigator, perpetrator,

and he was playing every single

one of them at the same time.

And the reason why this was

such an attractive scheme,

and the reason that

he got found out,

was because there was

such a devoted audience.

And that's why this story is

the perfect vehicle for getting

into some of these deeper

questions about true crime.

Like, why are so many people

obsessed with these stories

about m*rder and suffering?

And how did true crime

turn into the massive industry

that it is today?

-It's tragedy porn,

it's disaster porn,

it's violence porn.

And I think it relates to

the overflow of content in

the last ten years.

[Sarah Koenig] From This

American Life and WBEZ Chicago,

it's Serial.

One story told week by week.

I'm Sarah Koenig.

[Sarah Weinman] 2014

[Sarah Koenig] Here's a

case I've been working on.

[Sarah Weinman] the

first season of Serial aired.

And, I mean, it was such a

massive phenomena that did

introduce people to true crime,

who had never

thought that they would care

or be captivated.

There was The Jinx.

[Robert Durst] Nobody

tells the whole truth.

[Sarah Weinman] Then

came Making a m*rder*r.

And because all the episodes

were available at once,

[reporter] What do

you wanna say today?

[Steven Avery] I'm innocent!

-It paved the way for

bingeable content.

True crime.

This is not a new

phenomenon by any stretch.

All that has changed is how

people consume true crime,

or how they get obsessed.

[speaker] I think

like everyone else,

Making a m*rder*r,

The Jinx on HBO,

that whole time period made

me wonder why we weren't doing,

like, a comic con type

of thing for this genre.

[Sarah Weinman] Especially

in more recent years,

you end up with conventions

that cater to fans.

'Cause, let's face it,

it's not just about the

cases of the people,

but the genre

is a commodity.

[promo voice] So

many twists and turns.

Anything could happen.

My, my, my.

Introducing the ID Wine Club.

-Well, we are the

Wine and Crime Gals,

our podcast is Wine and Crime.

We chug wine, chat true crime,

and unleash our worst

Minnesotan accents.

-I also think people

are desperate for connection

and community, because there

is so little of it in real life,

that they go seeking

it out on the Internet.

[Sarah Weinman] True crime

becomes part of their identity

and becomes such fodder

for online sleuthing.

-Internet sleuths.

-Online web sleuths.

[Sarah Weinman] Fans that

come up with all sorts

of conspiracy theories,

alternate suspects.

[host] Some of these groups

have upwards of 20,000 members

and lots of theories.

-Citizen detectives

can be incredibly effective.

[Aja Raden] But, the 4th Eye,

if they'd been honest about it,

they would have admitted they

were entertaining themselves

and each other.

They acted it out.

-Alright, camera set.

[Aja Raden] That they were

these great investigators.

They redeemed it as a sort of

truth in the same way Bourgoin

wanted to be this famous

expert on serial K*llers,

so he told everyone he was.

Everybody in this story pretty

much told themselves a story

and then told it to

everybody else and,

like all good stories,

you tell them often enough,

you tell them long enough,

and most importantly,

you tell them to enough people,

and they just have a

funny way of becoming real.

Not true, but real.

[Lauren Collins] It's

been a year since the videos

the 4th Eye created

were published.

The reason the story won't die,

this kind of zombie

nature of the story,

is because Bourgoin

won't come clean.

I just felt like I needed

to pull out all the stops

to hear what he had

to say about it all.

I felt like he deserved

the right of reply.

Especially to survivors

and victims like Dahina Sy.

I tracked down the village

that I thought he lived in.

I took the train from Paris.

When we got there,

he was waiting outside.

He had this little storybook

cottage with, you know,

fruit trees in the garden.

And gingham curtains.

And there was just this

dissonance of

am I about to step

into this chamber of horrors?

[suspenseful music playing]

[Stéphane Bourgoin] What

would be your first question?

[director] Where do

you prefer to be?

Do you prefer to be in

that chair, or in this chair?

[Stéphane Bourgoin] I

prefer to be in your place.

Doing the interviews than

being interviewed myself.

Yes.