01x02 - Beauty Standards

[bunniefuu]

Today on "Ziwe",
I'll be talking about beauty standards.

Society's beauty standards
have changed over the years.

But the one constant is upholding
a standard that is impossible to achieve.

This has led to an
obsession with plastic surgery.

In the US alone, nearly


are performed every year.

This is particularly complicated
for black women who are constantly

told in media that their
features are not desirable.

Eboni K. Williams is the first black housewife of
"Real Housewives of New York"

So I invited the iconic author
and beauty expert to the show.

You look absolutely gorgeous.

She talks about colorism,

"I would consider myself caramel"

Her favorite body parts,

"Big t*tties!"

How she deals with
beauty standard hypocrisy.

"The lawyer in me
always comes prepared."

And so much more.

"That's very controversial"

And later we talk to
Rachel Lindsey, for even more insight.

So stay tuned,
it's gonna be iconic.

Shut up Ziwe [laughs]

"Ziwe" starts right now.

Please welcome the beauty queen

/

esquire

/

first black housewife of
"Real Housewives of New York"

Eboni K. Williams

Please, sit down.
You look absolutely gorgeous.

Thank you, Queen Ziwe.
You look fabulous as well.

Oh my god stop!
Thank you, Queen Ziwe.
You look fabulous as well.

Oh my god stop!

Let's talk about your outfit,
because you talk about impressions

and how it establishes
what people think of you,

so it opens the door for
you to be a brilliant woman.

So today you wore pink,
with gold buttons.

So why that for me?

I really wanted to convey for our
conversation the epitome of femininity.

Okay, stop.

And powe-[laughs]

I love that for myself.

I was going to serve
Black Elle Woods, today.

That's what I'd
pitch the show as.

Perfect.

I'm loving it.
Perfect.

I'm loving it.

We're aligned.

So you have a book
called "Pretty Powerful"

Why do you think
ugly people can't be powerful?

Umm, well, you know,
pretty is a democratized thing now.

Thank God.
No, really! Anybody can be pretty.

Oh really?

YES!

Anybody can be pretty?
YES!

Anybody can be pretty?

Anybody, child, trust me.

It's really about stepping into
control, and confidence in your look

and owning it,

and asserting it,
and that actually is pretty.

So d*ck Cheney. Pretty?

Well I don't see any
intention with d*ck's look.

Kid Rock, very intentional
with his look. Pretty?

Could be.

Could be?

Yeah, I mean I'm not attracted to him

Mmhmm.

But he's got a
direction, it's consistent.

Umm

It's white supremacist,
but it's there.

Okay interesting,
interesting point of view.

Now, Mother Teresa --

Mmhmm.

-- beautiful?

Now I wish I could have seen
some more photos, and this might

just be my lack of research,
of her in maybe her younger days.

Would you smash?

That's not a
bad looking woman.

I don't think.

You know, I think it's
disgusting that you would ever

talk about Mother Teresa like that.

Okay, you majored in
African-American studies, UNC Chapel Hill.

Yes, I did.

Which is not an easy school to get into
Yes, I did.

Which is not an easy school to get into

Right, and I went at 16

so I was a snot-nosed kid.

I know, full scholarship!
so I was a snot-nosed kid.

I know, full scholarship!

One of the things my
mother did for me, that I most value

Is for holidays,
as a little girl growing up.

I get the Barbies and
the Cabbage Patch dolls.

But I literally, no kidding you,
got "The Autobiography of Malcolm X",

"A Narrative of Frederick Douglas",
all of these things, right?

I also studied in
African-American studies.

Yeah, so I'm like --

Our similarities are...

You're my tether.

I'm dark-skinned,
you are...beige.

Is that the
politically correct term?

Th-that's very controversial.

It is controversial,
where do you stand on that?

I would consider myself caramel.

Certainly a brown woman.

And as far as colorism,
do you like dark men

like what's your situation?

I run the gamut. I had a
very loving, wonderful relationship

with a dark-skinned Haitian man
when I was in law school.

I've dated the Jews, mozel.
Native American, I've done that.

Many many bi-racials. Lost
my virginity to an East-Indian guy.

Okay, thanks for volunteering that. [laughs]

You know I don't want
to make myself look like a h*

but you know

h*-h*-h* Merry Christmas,
h*-h*-h* Merry Christmas b*tch!

I'm a virgin.
Don't tell anybody.

Child please.

If you were to declare the
most beautiful people in the world

who would be the top five of your list?

Selma Hayek is stunning to me.

Okaay

She's very busty, something else
Okaay

She's very busty, something else

Like, no shade, I had a lot of
insecurities around my breast size --

Really?

-- growing up.
Really?

-- growing up.

Yeah, cause they were so big.

Oh they were soo voluptuous?

No no no, when you're 14,
Oh they were soo voluptuous?

No no no, when you're 14,

It's not cute, you know
cause guys are not looking at

you're beautiful face.

They're staring at your

"big t*tties"

You know, and I felt very objectified,
and very ashamed.

I actually want to apologize,
because here I am trying to villianize those

with beautiful, large, perfect breasts.

So no, I want to apologize to
all my viewers out there who are

very curvy

very

dumb thicc

sorry

SORRY.

I see what you did there Ziwe.

I'm not jealous.
I see what you did there Ziwe.

I'm not jealous.

Okay.

Also really beautiful to me, Halle Berry.

Halle Berry.

Halle was Miss Ohio, USA.

She was first runner up
to a blonde Miss Texas.

And see that's
something Halle and I share.

In 2009, I was first runner
up to a beautiful blond as well.

Please welcome our first
finalist, Eboni Williams.

She did go on to win Miss USA,
shout-out to Kristen Dahlgren.

Very sweet girl.

I know what that feels like

to be the brown girl holding
hands with the beautiful white blond

woman who is, in this country and world,
the classical standard of beauty.

Damn, this feels like
a lot of trauma we're unpacking.

No-no, I have really unpacked this with
my therapist, I'm in a really good place.

Now, in your book,
"Pretty Powerful", you say that women

can be both pretty and powerful.

But some powerful women never
get the appreciation they deserve.

I'm going to show a
picture of a powerful woman

and you're going to compliment her.

Angela Davis honey.

Angela Davis.
Angela Davis honey.

Angela Davis.

I think Angela Davis
is wearing a crown.

She might not be in Miss USA

And the crown is...her hair

Yeah, and she's doing my
favorite thing for black women to do

✦ Amplify their voices ✦

Oh wow, African-American
studies is jumping out.

Now Michelle Obama.

Gorgeous, stunning,
Now Michelle Obama.

Gorgeous, stunning,

Beautiful in every way.

Awesome, perfect,
Beautiful in every way.

Beautiful in every way.

She didn't go into the White House
deemed a classical beauty.

No, people--
She didn't go into the White House
deemed a classical beauty.

No, people--

People on someone's
former network,

former Fox News correspondent.
They would drag this --

For filth,

-- brilliant woman.

for filth.

In your book you talked about
how you were there to dismantle --

One of the reasons I love working here,
is the diversity of thought.

Totally.

But how do you dismantle the
Master's house with his own tools?

I think everybody watching Fox News
is not a complete disgusting

white supremacist idiot.

Some of them...

can be moved.

Not most.
Not all.

But some.

So I was there to move.

Now, our girl

Shirley Chisholm,
compliments, gimmie.

When you look back at pictures
of Shirley Chisholm honey

She's giving you fur,
wonderful statement, jewelry,

well tailored suits.

She's a baddie.

She's a pathfinder,
like yourself.

No.

You are the Shirley Chisholm
of "Real Housewives".

You realize that?

You know, I was thinking
Rosa Parks, but I think you're right.

I think the work Shirley,
Rosa, and myself do...

is the same.

♪ Freedom ♪

Flat out, I love paying
ode to black women.

Now let us, compliment
another beautiful black woman.

You're wrong for this Ziwe.

Someone who loves themselves
more than words can say.
You're wrong for this Ziwe.

Someone who loves themselves
more than words can say.

[laughter]

[ominous laughter]

[more ominous laughter]

Well I think Eboni
is quite beautiful.

You are!

It's okay to love yourself,
I'm into that.

Now that you understand how
deadly serious these games are,

I'd like to play the most
ultimate beauty game,

It's called Build-A-Babe

It's called Build-A-Babe™

I'm going to show you features,
and we're going to construct the most

mathematically beautiful
face in American history.
I'm going to show you features,
and we're going to construct the most

mathematically beautiful
face in American history.

Are you ready to play?

Or are you intimidated by a black woman?

I'm ready [claps]

Okay let's start with:
Brow 1 and Brow 2?

That brow.

These brows? Okay.

Now, noses.

This is hard,

because I'm rejecting a narrative
that tells me thinner nose is better nose.

I'm gonna go,
yeah that nose looks too...

I'm gonna go,
yeah that nose looks too fake.

The other nose looks fake?
Yeah, eugh.

This is a real,
beautiful nose.

Mmhm.

Now, mouth.

That looks like my mouth,
I don't like it.

This mouth.

Okay girl.
Thick a*s gorgeous

And that lip color.

[laughter]

Okay, next.

We have eyes.

I take eyes very seriously.

One.

Wow. One.

Beautiful eyes.

Those are beautiful.
Beautiful eyes.

Those are beautiful.

Don't you think?

I know! Lastly,
Don't you think?

I know! Lastly,

I can't stand ya'll.

I'm going with my top knot.

Okay, you're top knot?
Wow.

You guys are assholes.

Now tell me, what are
you getting from this beautiful face?

I can tell you guys
played a big trick on me.

There's some things about
me I would change.

You have constructed the most
beautiful woman in American history,

which is technically me,
with a top knot.

It is you with a top knot.

But this is you.

This is a nice
looking girl too!

I would date this girl,
I would date both girls.

Yeah, I would prefer this girl.

I would prefer this girl.

Shut up, Ziwe.

[laughter]

Thank you Eboni K. Williams,
you are such a brilliant, funny, lady.

You brought a
copy of your book.

With a Certificate
of Authenticity.

So the streets know
that this is not a fake.

Counterfeit!

The lawyer in me
always comes prepared.

And I will need legal help
very soon, I'm sure.

Now, could you please sign this
and with a message of course.

Of course,
thank you my dear.

And read your message aloud.

Why don't you just
dictate to me, Ziwe?

Yes.
Why don't you just
dictate to me, Ziwe?

Yes.

Miss Ziwe,

Mmhmm.

You are a part

of the main cast of my life.

Okay.

Thank you being beautiful,

and smart,

and advocating for those

who may not have been
blessed with your charisma.

Wow

Wow.

Wow..

Wow...

Continue,
please continue.

I'm going as fast as I can.

Write FASTER.

-- you for being beautiful and smart.
Write FASTER.

-- you for being beautiful and smart.

You are a bright light,

in a dark night.

Uh-huh,
I see what you did, yup.

Love,

Eboni K. Williams

And if you could just hold
that up to the camera, as proof.

Thank you very much
for doing the show.

This was the best.

True beauty comes from within.

So if you're ugly it means
that your insides are rotten.

Using regular-a*s floss?

You need Blossr

You need Blossr™

Floss for black women.

Where the hell you come from?

From yo mama's big black *****

I'm just playing,
but you know what ain't funny?

Sickle cell?

CUT.

[sighs]

Look, I just,
I just don't buy that you're black.

Let's try it again,
but blacker

Umm,
colonizer colonizer co--

BLACK-TION.

[clapper claps]

Where the hell you come from?

Yo mama's big black *****

CUT.
I need it more like...

[caucasianly]
Yo mama's big black p*ssy

What's wrong with
regular-a*s floss?

Regular floss is for
trifling a*s white people.

Guys, cut the nuance,
more urban, please.

More hip-hop.

Do you have any notes for them?

Anything you want to say?

Say hello to

fresh

white

Now, a conversation
with my complicit

white

writer--t.

[BLEEP] Scolla.

[BLEEP] Scolla, that sketch

was one of the most offensive
things I've seen in my entire adult life.

You told me to write that.

I don't recall.

My face is blurred for this, right?

Blur their face.

Thank you.

You have some of the most
brilliant black talent at your disposal

and you're writing words like

"Regular floss is for trifling a*s wypipo"

No one told you to write like that.

That's from Twitter, though.

What Twitter?

I've just seen it around.

You've seen it
around on Twitter?

Yeah.

Where around Twitter?

I guess black Twitter.

Do you want to apologize to the
black community while you have the floor?

For something that I didn't...do.

Apologize.

I'm sorry.

I can't accept that apology
on behalf of the black community,

but...noted.

We're done?
Everyone wants to move on.

Okay.

Woooooooooooow

I think all black women are beautiful,

and by black women, I mean me.

The following video is
not suitable for anyone.

Viewer discretion is advised.

Everyone knows pop stars
have to be two things:

Hot and young.

And you're both girl.

Thanks, daddy.
This one's for you.

Wait, what?

This is terrible,
why are you doing this?

It's cultural commentary on
how pop music infantilizes women.

Ugh.

Oh my god.

Jesus Christ.

I hate this.

Ziwe.

Don't get mad at me.
Get mad at society.

This song makes me uncomfortable.

Good.
It's called satire.

I get what you're going for.

Please no more.

Ziwe, use words.

Oh my god.

Society is ugly, isn't it?

Yup, lesson learned.
Thanks Ziwe.

You're welcome.

Despite the country being in
the middle of a pandemic,

plastic surgery procedures
are actually on the rise.

There is a long history of women
getting elective surgery on television shows.

Like "Botched", "The Swan",
and even "Real Housewives"

I decided to follow in the
footsteps of my hero Vicki Gunvalson,

And visit one of New York's
most prominent plastic surgeons.

Hi, Dr. Greenberg.

I'm Dr. Greenberg.
Nice to meet you.

Nice to meet you as well.
I'm looking to get a whole new face,

whole new body.

Okay.

Firstly, what augmentations
would you recommend for me?

One of the things that we often
do is, sometimes as we age,

not that you're aging or anything.

How old do you think I am?

You're young,
you're young.

Like, how young?



goo-goo-ga-ga

[nervous chuckling]

Black don't crack.

Nope.
And you're looking great.

Um, how old are you really?

No I'm not going
to tell you on camera.

Okay. However old you are,
I can make you look younger.

Thank you.

By the time you're done
we're giving you a bottle.

If your nose bothers you, we can
make some corrections on that as well.

Does my nose bother you?

Does it bother you?

Does it bother you?

Does it bother you?

Does it bother you?

We can definitely tweak that
nose to make it look a little bit more refined,

If you want to look more
model-like, we can do that.

What is a refined nose?

So a couple of the things we can do, is to-
can I touch your nose?

Touch my face.
So a couple of the things we can do, is to-
can I touch your nose?

So a couple of the things we can do, is to-
can I touch your nose?

Okay.
So a couple of the things we can do, is to-
can I touch your nose?

Okay.

Is to bring in
that tip a little bit.

Oh my God.

To make that tip a little more refined.

Like a little bambino.

Exactly. And you look
even more hot than you are now.

You look like a supermodel.

Thank you.
You look like a supermodel.

You look like a supermodel.

Another thing that we do is an Emsculpt.

What is that?

It's where we put an electrical
stimulation pad on your butt,

That sounds like t*rture.

a half hour is the
equivalent of 20,000 squats.

And then my butt with get really firm.

it gets you firm,
it gets you lifted.

I don't want a lift butt.
I want like a big fat a*s.

Like Nicki Minaj, she has this line,
she goes "big fat a*s", like that.

I want to look dumb thicc.
Do you know what dumb thicc means?

Uh no.

Dumb thicc, it's

T

T-H

T-H-I

T-H-I-C

T-H-I-C-C

Okay.

It means that you're like:

Oh my God,
like Lola Bunny

[the old version]

We can definitely make
your butt look better.

We'll put something in there.

And then as far as
breasts are concerned

I want people to stare.

You want huge breasts?

Not like huge disgusting,
but huge like

[awooga sound]

[heavy panting]

No you don't, no.
[heavy panting]

No you don't, no.

[howling]

No, we can't have that.
We have to have natural.

Fine, whatever.

These are silicon
gel breast implants.

Can I touch this?

Yeah.
Can I touch this?

Yeah.

We usually make a tiny
incision, under the breast

and put these in,
put one on the other side.

And you just
put it in like that?

Okay something like that

There you go.

Oh my God
this feels great.

It was as easy as that.

What I really want is where I'm like
"Oh my God my breasts are too big"

And then people have to come to my house
and clean for me cause I can't lift my arms.

We can do that.
You look good.

Thank you.
They're soft.

They are really soft.

Yeah, it's like a pillow.
They are really soft.

Yeah, it's like a pillow.

So people can
rest their heads on it.

All right. Come over here and
we're gonna put you on the computer.

We're gonna do some imaging.

Okay.
Sarah's coming in.

So I'm gonna
move you a little bit.

Yeah.

And this machine is going
to take a photo of your face.

Yes.

Stay right there.
Look straight.

Ready?
All right.

So this is basically
creating you in a 3D image.

This is like The Matrix.
Talk about essential workers.

You guys are really doing the
work that we need to be done.

Let's change
the tip of her nose.

Okay.

So this definitely
should come in.

I don't know.

All I know is
I want to refine my nose.

So, watch the tip closely.

So this is normal.

Okay.

Now this is
nice and refined.

That's refined.

That's refined.
Yup, that's refined.

We can also look at the chin.

Sometimes people
have a really receded chin.

Okay sick.

That's normal right now.
Okay sick.

That's normal right now.

There's a little bit of projection here.

So when I do a chin implant,
I put a little incision under here

and put the chin
implant right there.

Okay.
And then what about the cheeks?

Put some filler in here.

And do you do tanning at all,
what kind of color can we add?

We [laughs],
we can't change your color.

Yeah, black is beautiful.

Exactly.

You look awesome.

Thank you.

Awesome.
Nice and refined.

Looks like you

but

better I guess.

Me but better.

I don't think
there is a better.

Me but better.
I don't think
there is a better.

Me but better.

No, me but better.

No, it's you but altered.

No, it's me but better.

Dr. Greenberg

No necessarily better.
You know what sometimes

just leave good enough alone.

Oh my god, stop it.
just leave good enough alone.

Oh my god, stop it.

Stop it.

If you're perfect.
Stop it.

Stop it, Steven.
If you're perfect.

Stop it, Steven.

You leave it alone.

[laughter]

Refined.

Someone once said that
beauty's in the eye of the beholder.

That person was hideous.

Next, we'll be joined by
media personality and attorney

Rachel Lindsey,
who was the first black bachelorette.

Hi Rachel,

Thank you for doing the show.

Oh it's so nice to meet you,
thank you so much for having me.

So you have done the brave
and important work of marrying
Oh it's so nice to meet you,
thank you so much for having me.

So you have done the brave
and important work of marrying

a white man who touched your
weave five days into the relationship.

How did you teach him
how to be a black hair ally?

I just had to be
very upfront with him.

I had to give
him a crash course.

That meant from, see right now?

It's not weave, it's a wig.

So I let him take my wig off

I let him run his
fingers through my cornrows.

I let him know-
I let him grease my scalp.

That is absolutely beautiful,
and I'm moved.

I hope I can find someone to
grease my scalp one day as well.

Find someone to snatch the wig off your head.
You know what I'm saying?

Going into the Bachelor mansion,
what color was the

satin bonnet,
you wore every night?

I wore a multicolored
silk scarf, changed it up a bit.

Brown, cream, blue.

Oooh.
Yeah.

And acts like it's in a fantasy suite.

You really did?

Yes.

Listen, you try to marry me,
you need to know what I'm really about.

Okay? This is Rachel.

No this is Rosa Parks.
You are the Rosa Parks of

accomplishments when it comes
to beauty standards in reality TV.

What do you think about the
fact that all three of the black

bachelors and bachelorettes
have all ended up with, you know,

partners who were not of color.

Yeah, that's a great question.

It's something that I was worried
about before I went on the show.

I think I got a little bit more grace,
because I was the first

and people were just excited
that a person of color was in this role.

But then I think when the next
person chose someone that wasn't black

and by the time we got to
the third one, it was like, you know what?

They're just not going to
choose anybody that's black.

This is what I'll say to that:

One. I think it just shows
how unfairly people of color

are held to certain standards
that their white counterparts aren't.

On the other hand,
I will say it's a casting issue.

There was a point
where I broke down

on camera, and they used
my tears for something else but

I was getting upset at
the selection of men of color.

And I also learned, as I was
going through, my season,

that several of the black men
on my season didn't date black women.

Really?

So there's that.

Let's unpack this.

Mmhmm.

How did you do this,
tell me everything?

So the show found it
interesting, like wow, this guy has

never dated a black woman before.

And I said, you think that's
interesting, that's my life.

I live that, that's why I'm
speaking out that you don't need to

diversify just your
cast and your leads,

you need to diversify the
people behind the camera.

Do you have any advice for
black women who also want to

break boundaries, and give an
over the pants handy in the fantasy suite.

What would you tell them?

Wait, what of the fantasy suite?

Well I imagine you're giving a lot
of over the pants hand jobs

in the fantasy suite.
Any black women hoping to

aspire to bachelor/bachelorette status,
how would you guide them?

I'd say listen, if you've
made it that many weeks

away from your television,
the internet,

your phone, your family,
and friends, go for it girl.

Don't look back.

Don't look back.
Don't look down either.

Don't look down [laughs]

So earlier this year, you
interviewed Chris Harrison on

Extra TV, where he defended
Rachael Kirkconnell, who was criticized

for liking r*cist
posts on Instagram.

and for attending
an Old South party.

Is it a good look in 2018 or
is it not a good look in 2021?

It's not a good look ever.

Eventually he apologized
for defending Kirkconnell,

deciding to take some
time away from the franchise.

But this prompted you to
deactivate your Instagram because

the Bachelor Nation fans were
leaving really horrible comments.

What does the
Bachelor Nation audience offer

other than hate mail
and r*cist Instagram comments?

I find myself asking
that question all the time.

I think what I was experiencing
after the Chris Harrison interview

were people who did
not watch the show, they were

just affiliating my name
with cancel culture, which

was not what happened
in that interview.

But I also received
a lot of support.

Sometimes, though, you
just don't see that or hear that

as loudly as you do
the negative side of things.

So when I think of other
bachelorettes in history,

they've been spin instructors,
they've been publicists,

and you are an
accomplished attorney.

When you were being cast for
The Bachelor, did the casting call

specifically say
member of the talented tenth?

I think they chose me,
because I checked all the boxes.

I was older, I had a career,
my dad is a federal judge.

I think for them, it was like,
well if we're going to pick

this person, we're going to have
a person of color for the first time,

she's got to make sense,
she's got to be acceptable,

she can't be threatening
to our lily white audience.

It has to be like, okay,
I can see why you picked her.

She's a
good black girl.

Were you a threat
to Bachelor Nation?

Do you think they regret it,
and do you regret it yourself?

I absolutely don't regret it.
It changed my life completely.

Do I think they have regrets?

Yes.

I'm not quite sure if they
understood what they were gonna

get with me. I think maybe
they thought she'll play the game,

which I did, contractually,
then when that contract was up,

you know, I started to speak
out on things that needed to change.

Okay. Who is the hottest
black person in your head?







Go.

Idris Elba

Okay good.

Perfect. Thank you
Rachel this has been fantastic!

If you could just
do a lean in,

smile.

Catch that gap.

Thank you for
taking the time to talk to me.

Thank you
so much for having me.

Love the interview.
You're great, girl.

[clapper claps]

Crackers is boring yo,
so why your teeth care got to be too?

[clapper claps]

Blossr is designed
specifically to get rid of

all of our
fried chicken cravings.

Say goodbye
to collard greens.

[clapper claps]

Blossr is great.

Buy it.

[crew laughing]