A Cursed Man (2025)

[bunniefuu]

(dramatic foreboding music)

(dramatic foreboding music continues)

(bats chittering)

(dramatic foreboding music)

(dramatic foreboding music)

(bats chittering)

(tense dramatic music)

- [Interviewer] So knowing

what you know now,

would you still get cursed?

- That's a good question.

Honestly, I don't know.

(tense dramatic music)

- You're literally begging the devil

just to prove to you that God's real.

(tense dramatic music)

- There's evil people,

there's evil energies,

and if you're playing around with that,

you'd be lucky to make it out alive.

(Elias laughing)

- This is gonna be fun.

(tense dramatic music)

- Y'all better not call me at

two o'clock in the morning

talking about this man's dead,

I don't want to hear that.

(tense dramatic music)

(dramatic music)

(air whooshes)

- We live in an age of staggering advances

in science and technology.

To our predecessors of

just a few hundred years ago,

much of the world today

would be indistinguishable from magic,

but we might not be so far removed

from the old world of gods and superstition

as we might think.

80% of people in the U.S. identify

as either religious or spiritual.

Three out of four Americans

believe in some form of the paranormal,

and similar figures are reflected globally.

Is belief in the supernatural

simply a remnant of an evolutionary trait,

or is there a deeper

and more profound truth

to the nature of consciousness

that we've yet to uncover?

(dramatic music)

I've been making documentary films now

for more than 20 years.

It's a career that brought me to the U.S.

over a decade ago where I met my wife

and now have a happy

little family with two cats.

(gentle music)

In my work, I've been lucky

enough to film in some exotic

and often remote places around the globe.

(gentle music) (water spattering)

Something that caught my imagination

is that everywhere I've traveled,

lying just below the surface

of our seemingly modern world,

there's a persistent undercurrent

of belief in the spirit world.

(gentle music)

I can't help wondering,

"Why are we so hardwired to

believe in the supernatural?"

Surely it's all superstition.

That's when I stumbled on an unusual idea,

what would happen if I

willingly asked someone

to put a curse on me.

(eerie dramatic music)

(siren wailing) (eerie dramatic music)

- Hello.

- Hey!

- How are you?

I'm good, did you find

anyone to curse you yet?

- (laughs) No!

- Ever since I met you,

I've known that you're

curious about this kind of stuff

and you're always wanting

to explore the unknown.

What kind of curse?

What would it be supposed to do?

- That's a really good question.

I don't know what type of curse either.

- Do you get to choose or

they just do something bad

and then you find out what it's gonna be?

- I don't know, I mean,

and will anyone curse me?

Because I'm guessing it's probably a first

for people I'm gonna speak to,

and then there's a question,

well, how much do I believe?

- You want to believe.

I'm a skeptic, but you're

the Mulder to my Scully.

You want to believe? (chuckles)

- I do.

So when I moved to the

U.S. I pretty much came here

with two suitcases, one with clothes,

and one was this case of memories,

basically full of old photographs

that I have me in my rock climbing days.

What really got me was finding this,

I got this book when I was

around 10 or 11 years old,

and I was obsessed with this.

It's called "The Unexplained:

Mysteries of the Mind,

Science, and Space, and Time"

has all sorts of things in it

from the history of Stonehenge.

Even some of these UFO stuff

is being talked about

in Congress right now,

so it's a real hot topic.

But what really excited me

and what really captured my imagination

when I was a kid was this,

"In search of the sixth sense,

ESP, extra sensory powers."

To me, this was magic.

I see references to Dr. Rhine

of the Rhine Research Center,

and what's wild to me is

that in just a few weeks,

I'm gonna be going to

the research center myself.

And I don't know that 10-year-old me

could have ever imagined

that I'd be doing this.

So I think the fact that I saved this book

as one of my most important memories

from when I was a child

says something about me,

and I guess why I'm

doing any of this at all.

(dramatic music)

It may sound surprising,

but this sprawling city of angels

is considered one of the

best cities in the country

to be a witch.

With many practicing covens, healers,

tarot readers, and magical stores

for all manner of witchy supplies.

(dramatic music)

And I've made contact

with the well-known coven here

in the hope that they can introduce me

to their world of magic.

So tell me, what is this

space and where are we?

- This is our temple up here.

This is where we do our ritual,

and it has to double as a classroom

because of the space that we have.

And it's actually, it's

a good space for that.

- This is probably gonna sound crazy.

I am interested in finding a curse,

dark magic, a hex to put on myself.

- So he's looking?

- To curse himself.

- To be cursed.

- Yes!

- We could curse you with stupidity,

but we think you've got

that down. (all laughing)

- Well, because that's a dangerous idea.

I mean, once something like that hits you,

undoing it could take a

lot more than you think.

And sometimes when you're in the throes

of something like that,

you don't even realize that you are.

- You are putting into action,

a spirit that's gonna stalk you

and find ways to deliver.

- Why did you choose that as the thing

that you wanna see manifest?

Do you feel like that's

the only real magic,

or do you feel like

that's the strongest way

to experience magic?

- I think it's that.

I think it's the strongest

way to experience.

Going into this,

that maybe I wondered if magic

was more in the mind of the believer,

and so therefore I felt

that maybe it wouldn't affect me

if I personally didn't believe in it.

- Well, the problem is,

is that just from our conversations today,

I mean, we're having a conversation

and you're getting a different perspective.

Reality is starting to get

more windows and doors in it

to where a year from now

you may be suddenly dealing with a curse

and you're completely

engaged in that universe.

You completely have a sense of it's real.

- And then It could really take you down.

- Well, I've certainly

got a lot to think about

before I go further on this journey,

but I would love to see

what your spell crafting looks like.

Could we perhaps do something

that can help me on my journey

to find magic in some way?

- I mean, magic in some way is to say,

to open a spirit for

the encounter of magic.

- Mm-hmm, yeah.

- And that we can do.

- Preferably without

you having to be cursed

to experience it.

- Yeah, seriously, dude.

You suddenly become a

doorway into the realm of magic,

you could get in trouble.

(dramatic foreboding music)

Well, basically we're

gonna do a witches ladder,

and this is your witches ladder,

so I'm gonna ask you to participate.

- Okay.

- I'm gonna ask you to get

a very clear idea of that state of wonder,

a changing reality that

suddenly opens its doors to you.

And at the end, I'm probably

gonna ask you to then,

(breathes), dump your

breath into the last knot.

- Okay, cool.

- Okay?

Here we go. (eerie dramatic music)

Light and dark are turning,

look at me into the burning.

Light and dark are turning,

look at me into the burning. (indistinct)

This cauldron of witchery is

consecrated to the old ways,

we shall embark upon the spell.

I conjure by the knot of one

to begin a witch's ladder,

our work be done. (breathes)

I conjure by the knot of two,

that it hits its mark and strikes true.

Witch fire is starting up.

This is a good sign for the work.

Conjure by the knot of three,

as we show will.

I conjure by the knot of four, yes,

to open wide the flaming door.

I conjure by the knot of five,

that our spell shall live.

I conjure by the knot of six,

I conjure by the knot of seven,

a spell in the stars,

it be writ on Earth as it is in heaven.

I conjure by the knot of eight,

that it be fulfilled by the hand of fate.

(breathes sharply)

I conjure by the knot of nine,

this spell is mine, this spell is mine.

(Liam breathes deeply)

By witch's breath, thy will shall be.

By witch's breath, thy will shall be,

and through the flames, I set you free.

(tense dramatic music)

- So it's done.

- Done,

it's a short spell. (laughs)

(indistinct)

(tense dramatic music)

- There are many forms of witchcraft.

In actual fact, if you

have a room full of witches,

you're probably gonna have more opinions

than the number of people in a room

because everybody has a

very personal approach to it.

And my understanding of witchcraft,

a commonality that we share,

is that we all have a relationship

with the invisible world,

with the realms of spirit.

And that would include

the realms of divine spirits,

other people would call the gods.

We're all working outside of the construct

of organized religion.

So we're not mediating

to spirit through priesthood,

we're having our own

personal direct relationship,

which effectively means we're heretics.

(dramatic music)

- If witchcraft is to be believed,

the witch's ladder spell

will open doors for me

to experience and encounter with magic.

And despite the warnings,

I still have my sight

set on finding a curse.

So I'm heading to a city famous

for its history of voodoo.

(tense dramatic music)

Celebrated for its festivals and nightlife,

New Orleans is just as well known

for its long association with magic.

And I'm hoping I've come to the right place

in search of a curse.

But it's hard to separate

the myths of voodoo

from its authentic practice.

So first, I'm seeking out an expert

to find out just what is voodoo.

- That's the question, right?

What is voodoo mean? (laughs)

And some people say it

means spirit or divinity,

deity, you know, we

have a concept called ashe,

which is the divine,

sacred energy of things.

Everything has ashe, this chair has ashe,

the crossroads has a space, has ashe,

and we celebrate the ashe in ourselves,

and also outside in the

wild world where we find it.

To me, that's what voodoo really is.

It's sort of an understanding

that everything is interconnected.

There's so many misconceptions

about voodoo that it's,

I mean, I think people hopefully

are coming to terms things like, you know,

that it's not all negative,

that it's bad, that it's dark.

I think people understand

that like voodoo dolls

aren't really a thing,

they understand that

zombies aren't really a thing.

On the other hand, it also does have things

that are very centered on curses and hexes

and what people would

think of as negative magic.

But what I say to people is,

if you knew your partner or

your child was getting hurt,

would you retaliate,

would you just sit there and do nothing?

You know, you're gonna try and resist

and stop them from getting hurt

with whatever you have at your disposal.

And we have this very powerful magic.

(birds chittering) (gentle dramatic music)

- [Liam] Witchcraft, like all religions,

is complex, and oftentimes contradictory.

And I now know curses are

practiced in this tradition.

So I've reached out

to a well-known voodoo priest

in the hope that they might be receptive

to my search for dark magic.

- Greetings, welcome.

- Thank you.

- Wash your hands for me and come on in.

- Okay, absolutely.

- It's a bit of a blessing.

- Thank you.

- And a slick way to get

some sanitizer on you.

And welcome to the

House of the Divine Prince.

- Thank you so much.

- This is my sacred space.

This is my ministry room, if you will.

You see Santeria in this room,

you see Lucumi in this room,

you see Ifa in this room,

and certainly you see

Voodoo present in this room.

- One piece that I've noticed

is this piece down here.

Could you tell me a little bit about that?

- You need to be careful with that.

Stand up.

- Okay.

- This is a spirit double,

it's a warrior, if you will.

So he handles all the bad things

that I can't do in the spirit realm.

And each of those nails

represent a successful mission

for which this deity has operated.

This piece has done some

powerful things for me.

And so I keep people away from it.

- So can you tell me the sorts of things

that people come to you looking for?

- They look to be blessed,

they look to be cleansed,

they look to be protected.

I channel the ancestors,

I channel loa, orisha deities,

and certainly I need the head of the client

to be active in the ritual.

So I can't do something to you, you know,

that you're not willing to accept.

- This might sound an unusual request,

but I'm interested in finding a curse,

a hex in some way.

Not to visually prove anything on camera,

but personally prove to myself

that I can experience something.

- Makes no sense to me at all.

You're looking for a

curse to validate what?

And so a positive thing, a blessing,

a miraculous thing won't do that for you,

it has to be a curse.

- A positive thing feels like

it could just be something

that happens on day to day,

whereas something more like a curse

might be more out of the unusual

and something that would validate

for my own personal belief.

- As a Black man in America,

I feel the exact opposite.

I deal with the curse every day,

I go through hell every day.

People are calling me

and contacting me for help,

who are cursed every day.

The norm is to be cursed.

And so it sounds,

without being disrespectful,

almost entitled.

- That's a good point,

and I don't mean to

make light of it at all.

I feel like I'm looking for something harsh

so that it can grab my attention

and give me some

understanding of what it is

that may be beyond

this materialistic world.

- I can't tell you how dangerous that is.

And what you're opening yourself up to,

losing everything.

Oh, I'm about to sound

like an evangelical Christian.

You're literally begging the Devil

to knock on your door,

just to prove to you that God's real.

There are rules to our universe.

And even before it comes outta our mouth,

it's gotta be in our consciousness.

So the universe has

already heard your request.

- The position that you see the world from

is not something that's very

easy for me to be able to see.

We need to experience things for ourselves,

and that's what I'm doing,

I'm looking for a personal experience.

- My fear at this point

is that the wheels are in motion

because it doesn't matter what you tell me,

you've already released that,

and I can only accept

that you absolutely believe

what you're saying, scares me.

A curse could end your life,

then what are you proving?

I'm dead now, but wow,

now I know that there's

something really beyond this.

Ooh, y'all better not call me

at two o'clock in the morning

talking about this man is dead,

I, I don't want to hear that,

I don't want to hear that.

(eerie dramatic music)

(eerie dramatic music continues)

- [Ali] Hey, how are you doing?

- Hi, Ali.

We've been having a tough little

bit of a tough time out here.

I'm struggling to convince anyone

of my, of my meaning and my intention.

- [Ali] What's happening

when you talk to them?

- Well, there's been a lot of push back

in terms of, you know, making me consider

how much more fortunate I am

than a lot of other people in the world.

- [Ali] Yeah, I mean,

I guess I can get why,

if you just, you know, say

it's like a personal journey,

"This is the journey I'm on,"

those kind of sound like

buzzwords to people, you know?

- [Liam] I think I need

to find a better way

to articulate why it's important to me,

because it is sincere.

And I think that if I go out there and say,

"Hey, I'm looking for a blessing,"

and I walk down the street

and I find a $10 note,

I feel like that won't change my mind,

it won't be the validation

that I'm looking for.

- [Ali] Are you nervous at all

that if you do find someone

who's willing to curse you,

like what that will actually be like?

- [Liam] You know, I

don't know what to believe

about any of this stuff anymore.

I think at the beginning of this,

maybe I was more skeptical

as the days have gone on,

I'm not sure what I think anymore.

(dramatic music)

Should I really be

concerned about being cursed,

and is there any actual evidence

that magic could real?

Thankfully, there are those

who are studying the science

of this phenomena.

Founded 50 years ago

by Apollo 14 astronaut,

Dr. Edgar Mitchell, the

Institute of Noetic Sciences

is one of the leading

centers for the investigation

into the power of human consciousness.

- What we study are

exceptional experiences,

that's our euphemism.

But that means mystical

experience, psychic experience,

and other kinds of

transformative experiences.

- What are the goals of the

Institute of Noetic Sciences?

- We have a working hypothesis

that all minds are interconnected.

And so part of the goal is to test ideas

that would either confirm

or deny that hypothesis.

Mostly we end up confirming it.

And of course, this is part

of the esoteric traditions

that go back as far as humanity goes.

And we're trying to

apply the tools of science

to better understand what apparently

the ancients knew quite well.

- So I'm particularly interested

in the idea of force of will, magic,

and does thought intention

really affect the world around us?

- So in the laboratory,

that kind of experiment is looking is thought about

as a mind matter interaction.

Does the mind, is the mind able to change something

that is physically

measurable at a distance?

Well, the answer is yes.

Of the largest single class of studies

involve random physical systems.

We're talking about electronic

random number generators.

So you ask somebody while

the bits are being created,

that simply will more ones to come up

or more zeroes to come up.

And so after 50 or more

years of doing experiments

as part of a laboratory test, that works.

So we take all of that

and we then are address the question of,

"Well, does force of will work?"

In the real world,

I would say the affirmations, magic spells,

and all the rest, they do work,

but usually they don't work

at anywhere near the same speed

as what we see in the laboratory.

- [Liam] Traditional

witchcraft practitioners

believe their spell crafting

can affect the world around us.

And now scientists are finding evidence

that the human mind can

affect digital systems in the lab.

One of the largest

experiments on the subject

was conducted by the

Global Consciousness Project.

The group placed random number generators

around densely populated cities

to see if the thoughts and emotions

of large groups of people

could skew the machine's readings

away from a 50-50 chance

of being a one or a zero,

especially during major world events.

(tense dramatic music)

The data recorded on these machines

around the events of September 11th

showed significant

deviations that for many,

suggest evidence of a unified

field of human consciousness.

I've asked magical practitioners

if they would, in some way,

give me a negative spell,

or that would could be a curse or a hex.

What's the likelihood from

some of your experience

that whether I believe or not,

I could still be affected in some way?

- You could still be affected

purely for psychological reasons,

that once your unconscious,

has the notion that somebody's

putting a curse on you,

it could do serious damage.

And that can push your physiology,

it could do all kinds

of interesting things.

And if I found somebody

who did want to harm

using this method, I would walk away fast

because what else are

they thinking? (chuckles)

I just don't wanna be

around people like that.

(tense dramatic music)

- My search for dark magic

in New Orleans isn't over yet.

I've made contact with the practitioner

who actively practices negative magic

for what he sees are

many legitimate reasons.

- Hi, Elias.

- Hello.

- Good to meet you.

- Good to meet you too.

- Yeah, absolutely.

Wow, this story is incredible.

- [Elias] Thank you.

- [Liam] New Orleans is

known very much for voodoo,

but what is your practice?

- I practice hoodoo and witchcraft.

I have a couple of other

associations to other traditions,

but people call me all types of things.

They call me conjure-man,

they call me a witch,

they call me a magician,

they call me a priest,

but to me, it's the same thing.

- I'm interested in finding out

about the world of curses.

- For sure, we could

definitely have a conversation

about curses.

- All right, where do we start?

- We start right now with the reading.

- [Liam] Okay, great, let's do it.

(dramatic music)

- Why a curse and not something else?

- It's hard to explain.

I feel like I want to push the boundaries

of my own experience

as far as I can take them.

Does that make sense in terms of

do practitioners such as yourself,

do you push boundaries

for your own experience?

- Yeah, I do understand it.

I think that you're making agreements.

You're saying in exchange

for more knowledge

and insight of these

esoteric spiritual concepts,

I'm willing to put myself

in the face of danger,

which to me is partly

brave, partly stupid, (laughs)

which is, that's kind of

like the best, best things in life

kind of come from that kind of mix

of stepping out without

feeling like you fully have a net.

So tarot cards are just a tool.

Really what I'm doing

is speaking to spirit.

I'm asking specifically about

any work that we may do,

how that would affect you.

So wherever the magician

card comes up in the reading

is where magic enters the picture,

where magic interests

the chat, right? (laughs)

So anyone who has eyes to see

and understands even a little bit of art

can see how the colors

changed a little bit here,

and how the mood has

changed after the work is done.

So we're going from the Magician card,

to the Three of Pentacles,

The Hangman, and then the shadow self.

It looks like you have

a relatively positive life.

It looks like you have a lot of love

and a lot of opportunity.

You are going to cause a

little bit of damage to that.

You'll get what you want though. (chuckles)

You'll get an experience

and you'll get your questions answered.

You are being represented

as the emperor moving forward.

What I see is transformation,

your idea of yourself changing.

But I think the crux of

what the cards are saying,

you're opening a door

that you are consciously saying

you want to be negative,

down a negative path,

to explore what's behind it,

and you're gonna find that,

and it's gonna have detrimental effects

on things that are already

positive around you.

- Right.

- According to, and I'm sorry,

but that's what this...

- Yeah,

that's what the cards say.

The cards as they are right now.

And if I would still like to

move ahead with the cursing,

are you still open to the idea of doing it?

- Yeah, but now it's

more entertaining. (laughs)

(eerie dramatic music)

So today, we're going to

be doing creation of a charm

to be effectively a curse.

We're going to be first tying you

to one of these coffin nails.

So some of your hair,

we're gonna tie it to the coffin nail.

This should slow you down a little bit,

making it more difficult

for you to accomplish things

that you hope to accomplish,

And then repelling people

who could otherwise be

of assistance to you away from you.

So, (chuckles) sounds fun?

(indistinct)

- Okay!

- Yes, let's do it.

- Let's do it.

- Okay.

(Elias sighs deeply)

- Ancestors, those who sacrifice

blood, sweat, tears for our very existence,

I'm calling you.

We are asking you to be here with us.

We are asking for your love, your wisdom,

your direction, your insight in our lives.

Yet again, ancestors, those who sacrifice

blood, sweat, tears for our very existence,

we are calling you,

we are asking you to be here with us.

(Elias laughs)

Nothing to worry about

that will scare you too bad, yet.

But it shall come to pass,

thou will not harken

unto the voice of the Lord,

thy God to observe, to

do all his commandments

and his statutes, which

I command thee this day

that all these curses shall come upon thee

and overtake thee.

The Lord shall smite thee

with a consumption and with a fever,

with an inflammation, and

with an extreme burning.

And thy shall pursue thee until thy perish.

And thy will...

We don't want all that, or do we? (laughs)

The Lord shall make the

rain of the land powder

and the dust from the heaven

shall come down upon thee

until thou be destroyed.

The Lord shall smite thee

in the knees and in the legs.

Moreover, all these

curses shall come upon thee

and shall pursue thee and overtake thee

till thou be destroyed.

He shall put forth a

yoke of iron upon thy neck

until he'll destroy thee.

(tense dramatic music)

(Elias breathes sharply)

Ancestors, he has asked for this

in favor of his experience,

his desire to know and to learn

and to grow in his own spiritual practice.

I ask that you give this to him,

but you did ask for this.

- I did ask for this, yes.

- Okay.

- Even if you didn't wear this,

it's still connected to you.

(gentle ominous music)

And this is doom oil.

Doom oil is death unto my enemy.

It comes from a pot called Nganga,

and then Nganga is African necromancy.

So first comes nightmares,

random feelings of dread, confusion,

fogginess of the mind,

and then comes sickness,

inability to sleep, and then comes loss.

You're gonna have to catch it

somewhere along this process.

- Mm-hmm, before it gets too far.

- Mm-hmm, and if you

don't do what's required,

everything that's

spoken is what's intended.

(eerie dramatic music)

(air whooshing) (eerie dramatic music)

(Elias laughing) (eerie dramatic music)

- There you go. (eerie dramatic music)

- So we've done it?

- Mm-hmm!

- Feels heavier than I thought.

- Wonderful, it's gonna

feel heavier and heavier

and heavier and heavier

like iron around your neck.

Like it was said,

if you really want to see if it works,

then don't take it off.

(Elias laughing)

This is gonna be fun.

- How do you feel after doing this?

(Elias sighs) (eerie dramatic music)

- Evil. (eerie dramatic music)

- Wow, that must be quite seductive.

- It is, but that's the

power you're calling on,

the devil, right?

Quite seductive. (eerie dramatic music)

- And now it's with you.

(eerie dramatic music)

(eerie dramatic music continues)

- So a curse could happen to a person

whether they believe it

or even know about it,

because the magic is affecting

the quality of spirit in their world.

If you don't have a strong

sense of self-identity,

no strong sense of personality,

rather you simply follow

the energy around you

as it presents, then it doesn't matter

whether you believe in it or not,

you're gonna feel that quality of spirit

that's being manipulated around you,

and it's gonna take you down a path

that's gonna be negative.

- I think there's a

danger of doing something

that is harmful to you,

harmful to those around you

who might not be protected.

There are, as I said, there's evil people,

there's evil energies in the universe.

And if you're playing around with that

and you don't know what you're doing,

then you'd be lucky to make it out alive.

- So have you ever seen or experienced

the effects of dark magic?

- Oh yeah, when they broke into my house.

One person, I knew

exactly who the person was.

While I'm gone, he pushes

the air conditioning in,

and breaks into my house.

But then he went to the

altars, that was the mistake.

And he stole very

expensive liquor off the altars,

consecrated items off the altars.

I immediately called every

elder that I knew in town,

"This isn't about retribution,

this isn't about my desire

to wanna do some kind of dark magic,

I cannot protect him.

He violated my shrine, I can't protect him.

"You've got to get him to bring that back."

Seven days later, he's dead.

(eerie dramatic music)

- Okay, Liam, you can hear me?

- [Liam] Yes, I can hear you.

- Great, you can go

ahead and open the shutter.

- [Liam] Okay, the shutter is open.

For the last few months,

I've heard from those who practice magic.

Now, I'm meeting with parapsychologists

whose research into mind over matter

includes the study of spiritual healers.

I want to know how might

spiritual healing occur,

and should I be worried

about the opposite, dark magic?

After all, I'm now officially a cursed man.

(eerie dramatic music)

- When I was a kid,

my family was very open

to the type of phenomena

that we study here,

different sorts of healing.

My mother was a healer, it

was a family type of thing.

And then when I was in my 20s,

I found out the Rhine

Research Center existed.

It was a place where they

had scientifically studied ESP,

PK, and different phenomena

that I was interested in.

Well, a lot of years later, in 2009,

I joined a research team

and started working here.

When people think of

the term parapsychology,

they think of a lot of different things.

Many people think of

Bigfoot or Loch Ness Monster,

or you know, chasing down UFOs.

And those are very interesting topics,

not what we study in parapsychology.

Parapsychology is actually a science

that studies five very specific phenomenon.

One being telepathy, mind

to mind communication,

another, clairvoyance, getting information

about objects or events that are hidden.

Third area is precognition,

getting information through time.

We group them together and call them ESP

or extra sensory perception.

In addition to ESP,

we also study psychokinesis,

mind matter interaction.

The fifth area is survival studies.

Survival studies includes everything

from near death experiences,

out of body experiences,

past lives or reincarnation.

So those are the five areas

that parapsychologists study.

(dramatic music)

This is a photo multiplier tube

that measures really low levels of light.

People naturally produce

very low levels of light

in the ultraviolet range.

And so what we're looking for in here

is to see if when people are doing healing,

meditation, martial arts,

or any sort of psy activity,

whether there's any change

in the light level from them.

And so that's what this

machine is designed to do.

We take people who say they're healers,

we don't test to make sure they're healers.

People do that in other labs,

people who do medical work are doing that.

What we do here is we're trying to say.

"What is the mechanism behind healing?"

All right, Liam, we got a great baseline.

Do you wanna go ahead

and start your meditation now?

- [Liam] Okay, start the meditation now.

(dramatic music)

So you can see we

started the active session,

and we had one spike that

went up to 12 from the baseline,

which was under seven beforehand.

We just had one spike that went up to 12,

that's a nice difference,

but we like to see a little

bit more than just one.

So we'd like to see if we get any more

of those throughout

the active session here.

The baseline is typically about

12 to 20 photons a second.

We see that number jump to 80.

It's four times the baseline,

statistically very large.

But we also see people

go into the hundreds,

into the thousands.

You don't need statistics

to figure this out.

There's something unusual

going on in the lab there.

Well, it was pretty much

a flat baseline throughout.

- Okay.

- But there was a slight variation.

- Mm!

- And if you look

at the graph over here, you can see,

as soon as you started, we

saw this jump up to 11 or 12.

Now, normally we would wanna

see multiple jumps like this.

So I wouldn't consider this

a really strong indication,

but it's a start.

- Okay. (John laughs)

- If this bio-energy,

if this ultraviolet light

that comes from people is

being used as a carrier wave

to transfer information between people

and allow healing to

occur in another person,

perhaps that's what

we're finding in our lab.

This is where we are right now,

looking at healing in the

field of parapsychology.

(dramatic music)

- [Liam] If people

have this ability to heal,

do you think that people have the ability

to do the opposite of that

and put a curse on someone,

for example, and make them ill?

- I, I don't understand,

why would you let

someone hurt you purposely?

Anyone who is able to affect

someone in a healthy way

may also be able to affect

them in a negative way as well

and hurt their health.

No one wants to put

themselves in harms way.

Why would you actually let someone do that?

That would be a dangerous thing.

I know you have

something else in mind here.

- Yeah, no, no.

Well, you know, I'll put

the cards on the table now.

I have been around people

who have suggested they have that ability.

- Of course!

- And I have asked them

to potentially do that to me.

(laughs)

- Okay, (laughs) how you feeling? (laughs)

- [Liam] I'm in the

middle of that right now.

- Okay, if you need some help, let me know.

I'm not kidding.

(eerie dramatic music)

- Several weeks after

Elias put a curse on me

and I started to get some

pretty unsettling dreams,

the most recent really shook me up

and left me feeling just anxious all day.

(tense dramatic music)

(latch rattling) (tense dramatic music)

I think I need to get

some advice on the dangers

of what I'm potentially doing to my psyche.

- I noticed you're not wearing the curse

around your neck right now.

- So I was told that it's at its strongest

when I'm wearing it around my neck.

But either way it's attached to me

and doing its work regardless.

Within about 3 to 4 weeks of

going through that experience,

I did start to have some very bad dreams,

dreams that were more

violent, more sinister.

I had a dream in which

I was being held c*ptive

or something was going to,

was going to t*rture my cat

and make me watch it.

The only way to stop this from happening

was would be if I had

tried to put my cat to sleep

to stop him suffering.

And that dream

really, really got to me.

- I'll bet. (chuckles)

- Yeah.

That was one of the moments,

particularly when I felt,

maybe this stuff is getting to me.

For me, seeking out something like this,

seeking out curses,

what are the potential

psychological dangers for me?

- Well, I think some of them

you've experienced already, right?

The anxiety and, right,

some sort of some fear that's come up.

I think those are kind of natural,

normal, right, suggestions.

They bypass the rational mind.

They go right to the subconscious,

bypass the rational mind,

and then they influence,

not only your expectations

and your perceptions,

but your behaviors without

you being aware of it.

In my estimation, the danger is that then

it just takes over and

everything becomes a negative,

everything becomes a problem.

And what you did was you went out and said,

"I'm gonna lean into

the negative right now."

And so how far do you take that?

At what point is there

enough anxiety for you,

enough bad dreams for you,

enough things for you to make a choice

to lean into the positive?

- [Liam] As upsetting

as they may have been,

I don't think my violent nightmares

are enough to convince me

of the existence of magic just yet.

So I've decided to go further.

I'm seeking out another

curse from a place known

for some of the oldest

recorded teachings of magic

in the world.

(upbeat dramatic music)

Perhaps this is tempting fate,

but I keep my curse with me

as I travel to a place known as.

"The Land of Black Magic."

(dramatic music)

I am traveling to the village of Mayong

in the very northeast of India.

Perched on the banks of

the vast Brahmaputra River,

Mayong's traditional way of life

shrouds its rich history of magic,

witchcraft, and even human sacrifice.

Its unbroken lineage of magical teachings

have passed on through the generations

for hundreds of years.

Today, it's ill*gal to perform dark magic,

and the practices are shrouded in secrecy.

Luckily, I have an old friend

who's a seasoned journalist here in India

and he's agreed to help me find

some of India's elusive

magic practitioners.

(dramatic music)

- Mayong is not a small place.

It must be in the, maybe in the 50, 60, 70s

square kilometers area.

And Mayong is pretty much the epicenter

of all black magic in this country.

So this place where we are at here today

is a temple which has been around here

for hundreds years now.

And it's a primary location

where people come to cleanse themselves

of any black magic that's

been carried out on them.

- How difficult is it going to be

to see some black magic

practice for ourselves?

- It's banned by Indian

law, it's very difficult.

People are very scared

to even talk about it,

forget even showing you.

It's not going to be an easy task.

The practitioner here,

he helps remove the black magic on you.

So somebody may cast a spell on you,

he removes all of those spirits.

He says he'd be able

to clean that out for you.

- Tara Baba is one of India's

mystical tantric practitioners

who are said to hold the

ability to weave together

both our physical and supernatural worlds.

I'm hoping to learn more

about the power of this ancient practice

before I seek out a dark magic experience.

- [Liam] They're your friends?

Ah, so this is possession

of a djinn.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah!

- [Liam] I'm shaken by the

scenes of a real life exorcism.

(patient screaming)

Whether or not it's evil

spirits or simply belief

through the power of suggestion,

either way, I'm reminded just how fragile

and susceptible our minds

can be to these dangers,

especially if we go looking for them.

(eerie dramatic music)

(fire crackling) (eerie dramatic music)

The spiritual practice of Tantra

is of course much more than witchcraft.

First recorded in the 6th century,

its teaching suggests

everything in this material world

is interconnected and infused

with divine feminine power.

My obsession with finding dark magic

seems aligned with an

important tantric principle,

that by actively engaging

with our spiritual obstacles,

such as desire and fear,

we can learn to overcome them

and become interwoven

physically and spiritually

with all that surrounds us.

(dramatic music)

Tonight is an important Hindu festival,

and at temples across the country,

there will be large celebrations

in honor of Lord Ganesh.

It's an important opportunity

to find some local magic practitioners.

To help me navigate the festival,

I'm meeting with local guide

and wildlife photographer, Champak.

- [Liam] As the evening

celebrations get underway,

our team makes an important connection

with this secretive tantric

who agreed to perform a dark magic ritual,

but only in the remote jungle.

The local tantrics have advised us

not to venture into the wild

with this unknown practitioner.

But my time here is running short

and I'm determined to experience

a dark magic ritual for myself.

- Right.

- Okay!

- That's what he said to you?

- Will there be weapons?

- That's, I guess that's new information.

- Then we can't come back down.

- No!

- Seems very isolated.

- Right.

- Right, I guess we sleep on

it and just see what we can do

'cause I don't wanna

go home and not get it,

but I'm certainly not

gonna put anyone at risk.

- Yeah! (eerie dramatic music)

- [Liam] India's spiritual

devotees awaken early

to begin their daily prayers.

It's a place where both

life and death is celebrated.

(dramatic music)

This is our final day here,

our last chance to find authentic magic.

(dramatic music)

So despite the warnings,

my crew and I have

decided to meet the tantric,

willing to take us to his

place of spiritual practice

deep in the jungle mountains.

(dramatic music)

With packed supplies,

we begin the mile and

a half ascend to a cave

where he will call upon

his goddess, Chinnamasta.

It seems fitting that my journey

to find light from the dark

has led me to Chinnamasta,

the goddess of both life and death,

of destruction and recreation,

the goddess of contradictions.

(tense dramatic music)

As we near our destination,

we cross a ring of brush fires.

I'm told they won't burn

much past the dry leaves.

Maybe it's just the curse

already attached to me,

but I can't help but that

our options for escape

are being choked off.

(tense dramatic music)

The tantrics prepare the sacred space

with offerings to the gods

as we await nightfall.

Tonight, the tantric here is going to try

and invoke the spirit of Chinnamasta.

- Yes.

- And that spirit

is gonna judge upon us.

- [Liam] As the night finally draws closer,

the tantric focuses his mind,

ready for tonight's ritual.

Before I have a chance

to question the choices

that have led me here,

I'm summoned into the sacred space.

- Liam, come, come here.

- [Liam] Never before

has my fate been so literally

in the hands of the gods.

(eerie dramatic music)

(eerie dramatic music continues)

- Feel good, feel relaxed.

- Mm-hmm, yes.

- Mm-hmm?

- Mm-hmm, feel relaxed.

- [Liam] I'm not sure what I was expecting.

Perhaps the goddess herself

would rise from the flames.

But real magic isn't a stage show trick.

- I feel good, I feel strong.

- Yes, yes.

- Mm-hmm, yes, I do.

(eerie dramatic music)

- There have been times

in my life when I found clues

that we may all be connected universally

and spiritually in a way

that's hard to intellectually define.

I'm starting to realize that

my search isn't for a curse.

I'm looking for a door,

for a gateway to the divine,

something that I've experienced before.

(eerie dramatic music)

There was one big event in my life,

I had a big climbing accident.

- Yeah, I know you told

me about that before.

- So I was climbing a big

route back home in the UK.

I got right to the top,

and then my foot got stuck in the rock.

I realized I hadn't placed enough gear

in the rock as I went up.

What that means is

I would probably hit

the ground if I fell off.

It was terror, absolute terror,

because I had to get my foot

out of the rock that was stuck.

And the minute my foot came out,

my hands came away, and I fell.

I just remember putting

my hands over my eyes.

I just remember thinking, "I'm gonna die.

I just don't want to

see it when it happens."

This is where it gets strange.

I went from the most

fear I've ever had in my life

to feeling an in incredible,

incredible sense of bliss.

I felt so at peace

in a way that was just incredible.

Just to this day, it makes no sense.

By luck, I didn't hit the

ground, and I was like,

"I'm alive." (chuckles)

I felt like I touched something

that wasn't on our normal natural level.

And I don't know what that is,

I dunno what it was,

and it bugs me. (chuckles)

It bugs me that it makes me feel

like this stuff I don't understand

or I'm not prepared to look into.

I know this won't make

sense to most people,

like, "Why would you do this?"

I almost want to experience the darkness

to know that there is a light.

And I think that's what I'm looking for.

(eerie dramatic music)

(dramatic music)

I now know that if I

want to prove to myself

that my climbing fall experience was real,

I can't be afraid to put myself in danger.

So I'm seeking out the most

dangerous magic I can find.

I've come to Catemaco in southern Mexico,

a beautiful and deeply spiritual city.

Ironically, it's most famous,

not for its revered Catholic church,

but as a mecca for

witchcraft. (dramatic music)

The city's rich tradition of shamanism

dates back to the

ancient Olmec civilization

and it's still home to many

male and female witches

known as brujos and brujas.

Every year, a festival is held

along the shores of Lake Catemaco,

a gathering of the areas

many witchcraft practitioners.

Crowds in their thousands will come to see

the spectacularly dressed

shamans parade through the city.

(shamans speaking in foreign language)

- [Liam] A celebration

of their deeply respected

magical practice and history.

And for many visitors,

it's a chance to meet with the brujos

to seek out a magical spell

in search of better health, fortunes,

or maybe something more nefarious.

And of course, I'm here

to meet one of the brujos

still seeking a spiritual experience

through the power of dark magic.

(eerie dramatic music)

(Juan speaking Spanish)

(leaves rattling)

(eerie dramatic music)

- Hola!

- In the Christian religions,

they say that Satan is a

negative and evil person.

Why is it that you feel

that that's not the case?

- So I'm looking for something

of an unusual request.

I'm looking for someone

to put a curse on me.

Is that something that you could do?

- What are the potential

things that could happen to me

once I make this request?

(Liam speaking Spanish)

(eerie dramatic music)

- [Liam] I already have

one curse attached to me,

but something in my gut is telling me

there's still more to experience.

So tonight, Juan has invited

me to a satanic Black Mass.

I'm told this is the first step

in making a pact with the devil.

(horn honking) (eerie dramatic music)

(horn honking) (eerie dramatic music)

(metal clattering) (eerie dramatic music)

(chicken squawking) (eerie dramatic music)

(eerie dramatic music) (horn honking)

(tense dramatic music)

(tense dramatic music)

(tense dramatic music)

(tense dramatic music continues)

(tense dramatic music continues)

- So tonight was pretty

intense to see and be a part of.

It's hard to talk about the emotion,

the sense of the feeling you get,

the energy level that you get

when you're in an environment like that.

The music, the smoke, the fire, the drums,

it's all building up inside of you,

and it creates a really powerful energy.

And I can see why that

puts you in a state of mind

that could make you more

susceptible to believing,

or some would argue that it puts you

in a state of mind more open to receive

and to connect with the spirit world.

So tonight, in theory, I

opened up this dialogue,

this conversation with Satan.

But that's just the first part.

Tomorrow, we're going to Satan's cave.

Juan says it's where he has a more powerful

and direct connection

with the spirit world.

And there, I'm going to

enter into a pact with Satan

to put this curse upon me.

I think how this one is different

and how the game has changed

is that in this scenario,

I have to write down exactly

what it is I want to occur.

So I'm not asking to test

somebody else's power,

I'm actually requesting

a curse upon myself.

I'm entering a pact with Satan

to request a negative thing,

an illness, an injury, or even death.

I want to give this a serious attempt

at experiencing something supernatural.

But is it supernatural

or am I just using my

own mind against myself?

I have to think very carefully

about what I write in this pact.

What I'm requesting is so extreme

that I don't even want

to share it with anyone

because there may be

some very real consequences

to what I'm doing, and

whether magical or psychological,

I guess I'll have to wait and see.

(tense dramatic music)

(bats chittering)

(dramatic music continues)

(dramatic music continues)

- Satan, this is my request to you,

and I humbly offer it to you.

(eerie dramatic music)

(indistinct)

(tense dramatic music)

(bats chittering) (tense dramatic music)

- Do you see a correlation

or any connection

between the power of suggestion and magic?

- Certainly, after being in Mexico

and making that request on myself,

I do wonder if that even took

the dreams up another level.

Certainly I feel the idea of

me looking over my shoulder

and being more wary of situations

has definitely ramped up,

the feeling that maybe you just need to be

a bit more cautious right now.

- Do you regret having done it?

- I genuinely have one big fear

that I may have done some

physical damage to myself.

We know that science has proved things

like the placebo and nocebo effect,

and our minds can have physical effects

on our bodies when we believe.

My feelings about regret might be different

if I was to find out

that my medical results

show up a problem that I

didn't have six months ago.

(dramatic music)

So mountain biking is definitely one

of my biggest passions in life.

There really is nothing

like getting down the trails,

shredding, having fun.

And I gotta admit, since

going to New Orleans,

getting a curse,

and then coming outta the cave in Mexico,

it's put me off riding and

that's been getting me down.

So I've decided to put

that behind me right now.

I gotta get out on the

trails, have some fun,

and just stop thinking

about all that stuff, you know?

(dramatic music)

(dramatic music continues)

(chains rattling) (Liam grunting)

- [Rider] Dude, are you okay?

- Ah, my knee, argh...

- Yeah...

The hospital X-ray showed

nothing was broken, thankfully,

but I had a pretty deep

cut that needed stitches.

The swelling to the

knee was pretty extensive

and took five or six weeks

to try and get myself

walking properly again.

Even when I tried to get away from it,

my mind's haunted by curses.

Where your attention

goes, your energy flows,

and I fear I'm becoming a danger to myself.

(tense dramatic music)

(Liam grunting) (tense dramatic music)

What is strange though is

I checked out the footage

from Elias' curse and where

he got specific shocked me.

- The Lord shall smite thee in the knees

and in the legs. (laughs)

- [Liam] Is magic real,

and if so, where does it come from?

- Magic is the fact

that you are an animate

creature existing currently

who is conscious enough

to ask the question.

That is magic.

So yes, magic is real as that.

It's not wrong to go

out and seek experiences.

There is value in it,

but you have to, you have to, be careful

'cause all those things, all those things are true,

all those things are very, very true.

(eerie dramatic music)

- It is been several months now

and the dreams are just getting worse.

I'm barely sleeping at the moment,

and the sense of anxiety

that I wake up with

carries on with me throughout the day.

I feel paranoid all the time.

Even sitting in traffic,

I keep thinking that

every car's going to hit me.

Every time the phone rings,

I think that something bad has happened,

and it's just this constant sense of dread.

(dramatic music)

Maybe it's connected to my lack of sleep,

but I have this physical feeling

that something bad is coming.

(tense dramatic music)

- How long do you wanna

remain the cursed man?

- I think I've had enough.

- Was it the dreams where you

said I've had enough, exactly?

Or was it the accident or the anxiety?

- As the odd little things

that are more physical are happening,

it's chipping away at the

armor of it's all in your mind.

And I feel like if I don't try

and maybe undo this some way,

whether or not magic is real or not,

I might be finding and forming

some real negative habits.

- So what has stopped you so far

from releasing yourself from them?

- I don't know whether or not it's gonna be

as easy to do as just that.

I think now I'm in a tricky position

where if I perhaps

didn't believe in magic,

and yet somehow it's

got into my subconscious

that now I'm actually

going to have to believe

in order to get myself out of this.

(siren wailing)

Despite your warnings-

- Yes?

- I have found not one,

but two people who were

prepared to put a curse on me.

- See, this is why they

wonder of us as Brits,

they think we're crazy.

- Right, but I can't imagine why.

- And I feel like I'm getting

a laundry list of things

that are starting to go wrong.

I have brought with me a couple of clips

from the things that have been done to me.

- We're going to be first tying you

to one of these coffin nails.

So some of your hair,

the Lord shall smite thee

with a consumption and with a fever,

and with an inflammation

and with an extreme burning,

and they shall pursue

thee until thy perish.

The Lord shall smite thee in the knees

- God...

and in the legs. (laughs)

And he shall put forth a

yoke of iron upon thy neck

until he had destroyed thee.

- Wow.

- Damn dude! (chuckles)

- So that was about six months ago now,

and there's certainly been

some things happening to me.

- Did it start happening in your dreams?

- Yes, now I'm having pretty severe

nightmares now actually.

- You haven't lost any limbs

or anything since though, right? (laughs)

- No, about five, six weeks after

that happened to my knee,

I had to have stitches in the knee.

- Okay.

- That's nasty.

- It doesn't stop with the

knee though, it goes on.

- If you don't cut this short,

this can get really bad...

- It's gonna start

to get very physical.

- Yeah.

- Perhaps I should have stopped there.

I found a brujo in Mexico

who aligns his work

specifically with Satan.

He told me that I had

to write down the request

and I would petition that request to Satan

at a very special place.

I did that, and it was bound in blood.

- Binding with blood

doesn't make it easy to undo.

(tense dramatic music)

- Satan, this is my request to you,

and I humbly offer it to

you, and I thank you for it.

- Oh he marked you.

This one is something that

you got marked and you got,

and you petitioned, so...

- For a life, not just the curse,

but this is gonna be your life from now on,

was basically what I was hearing.

- Problem here is you're approaching it

like a party trick,

and so therefore that

very action is disrespectful.

And for that, you may get, you may get a slap,

or we may have a fight on our hands.

To be honest, just so you know,

going into trying to undo this,

you are gonna have to find faith in this

in order to undo it.

You're gonna be the key to undoing it.

- Okay. (dramatic music)

(dramatic music continues)

- Okay, you ready?

- I am.

- All right, come with me.

- One is thine, three for thee,

nine is mine. (dramatic music)

One for the land and one for you.

One for thine,

three for thee, and nine is mine.

Psychic protection.

- And as each person comes in,

you are going to give them one coin each.

Three for thee, and nine is mine.

(dramatic music)

Accept your payment.

(dramatic music)

Nine is mine. (dramatic music)

- I accept your payment for this work.

(dramatic music)

We are grouped here

together to close contracts

for Liam, legitimate reasons.

I think he was a fool,

but we are here to undo it.

(tense dramatic music)

I call upon my gods, Croman,

hear the blood in my veins

know the oaths I have

made on the ancient altars.

I call to the watchers,

black spirits and white,

red spirits and gray,

mingle, mingle, mingle, who may,

felt out, out, out around and about,

a world within and a world without,

the good, stay in, and the ill, stay out.

(dramatic music)

- Two curses have been placed upon Liam.

The first was made to be undone.

In the service of Liam,

I now in this moment,

(sickle clattering)

sever, this curse, hmm bound tight.

(dramatic music)

Unravel and clean.

Take it apart, shred it,

get it all broken up.

Here, take the sickle, cut some threads,

cut the fabric, get it removed, severed,

give blessings to the one that served you.

Know that it has done its job.

(tense dramatic music)

- Thank you for giving me this experience.

But I'm glad that it's ended.

This is over and it is done.

(tense dramatic music)

- The next one is harder,

(wand rattling)

Coven tread.

(wand rattling)

(ritualists pagan chanting)

- I call to you fallen angel,

the contract now he

asks be brought to close,

the knowledge he has gleaned

he knows to be true,

and through this work that he is doing,

he will share this

knowledge with the world.

For this, he asks that

recognition of this pact

be completed and laid down.

Look into the mirror

and speak to that completion.

Do you know it to be true, Liam?

- Yes, I know this to be true.

I recognize the power.

I have had enough.

- You are ready.

- I am ready.

This is completely over, it is done.

I am finished with this.

- Do you see that day

that you were in that cave

and you made this pact?

- Yes.

- Push, push, you feel the pact?

- Yes, I feel it.

- You see him before you.

- I can see him, yeah, I felt that energy.

- Do you feel it now?

- I can feel it, yes.

- Now, sever them tethers.

Sever them, one by one.

Rip them to shreds.

- I have severed these tethers,

I've severed these bindings.

- With honor and respect.

- Feel it all that is bound in you

now be bound within that mirror.

- Use your breath.

(Liam breathes deeply)

- Again.

- Roar, roar. (Liam roaring)

- Roar! (Liam roaring)

- Yes.

- Come on, push.

- Push it! (Liam roaring)

- Into it, and seal. (Liam roaring)

(ritualists pagan chanting)

- Yes!

- Yes!

(ritualists pagan chanting)

- Done?

- Yes!

- Done, put it in.

Hands upon the rim of the cauldron.

(ritualists pagan chanting)

- That's done.

(ritualists pagan chanting)

- Push! (metal clattering)

(ritualists pagan chanting)

- Push! (metal clattering)

There is no other contract.

Everything has been laid down.

Now, shred this and put it in.

- [Liam] Contract is done.

- Push! (metal clattering)

- [Griffin] All honor and respect,

I return what you gave me.

- With all honor and respect,

I return what you gave me.

(ritualists pagan chanting)

- [Griffin] Down!

(eerie dramatic music)

Witches use your eyes,

let the sight be true.

Ah, there it went, finally, it's done.

Everyone okay?

(indistinct)

- Done, done, done, and done?

- [Ritualist] Done!

(ritualists singing pagan prayer)

- Liam, stand up.

Head bowed, hands out.

(ritualists singing pagan prayer)

And the root.

(ritualists singing pagan prayer)

(ritualists singing pagan prayer)

(ritualists singing pagan prayer)

(ritualists singing pagan prayer)

(dramatic music)

- So it's been six

months since I got cursed.

- Six months?

- I've now been cleansed.

- How do you feel?

- I'm feeling much better.

- Really?

- Yeah,

starting to sleep better.

- That's good.

- This is the one thing,

I think this thing has been weighing

on my mind a little bit.

I finally got the results

from my doctor's checkup, my blood work.

And I haven't opened it yet.

I'm a little nervous right now. (chuckles)

- You really?

- Yeah.

Okay, so we screened for some

cancers that are in my family,

(dramatic music)

and the screenings are normal.

- That's good, so how do you feel?

- I mean, honestly, that's a real relief.

- You were worried about that.

- Yeah.

- I didn't know it was

weighing on you that much.

- Yeah, you know, with

the dreams and everything, I was,

I suddenly felt scared of what.

I might have done and what

that would mean for you and us.

And I was beginning to worry

I might have made a big mistake.

(dramatic music)

- You're okay?

- Yeah, it's all good.

- Yay.

- There's not, there's no, nothing bad.

- Good. (dramatic foreboding music)

- I think magic is definitely real.

I don't know if it's quantifiable,

that's a different thing,

and then what are we measuring it with?

But it is demonstrable, it's a effective.

In a way, I almost wanna define it

the same way I would define culture,

like that complex whole

that makes up a person.

- The root of magic is

the ability to wield free will.

We use our free will to

bring about specific change

in the future through actions today.

So our relationship to divine spirits

is a lot more dynamic than most people have

in other religious systems.

- Can we do, and have we done things

that are pretty incredible?

Absolutely, but I don't have a magic wand.

I'm not going to fix your life overnight,

particularly if you are not invested.

They're not considering their role,

their accountability, their responsibility

in the life that's manifested for them.

- So what would I say to

people who think that it's evil?

Go back and challenge every thought

that's been pushed on you as a person.

Your mind is your reality.

And so what you decide to let in

and what you decide to let go of

will then shape the world around you.

(dramatic music)

- [Liam] I went searching

for the secrets of magic,

and I found that our mind shape our reality

in ways that perhaps still

beyond our understanding.

Maybe I just want to believe

that that kind of sounds like magic to me.

(eerie dramatic music)

(tense dramatic music)

(dramatic upbeat music)

(ritualists chanting)

(ritualists chanting)

(ritualists sing pagan prayer)

(eerie dramatic music)