02x01 - Critical Race Theory

[bunniefuu]

jaunty music

Hello, and welcome to the season two premiere of 'Ziwe.'

I'm Season Two Ziwe.

I want to acknowledge the first season being somewhat

controversial.

That was never my intent.

The brand of my show is, of course, intersectionality,

but I can assure you that it's the intersection of hot and

young.

It came to my attention that an episode was shown as a way to

"teach race" in a New York City private school.

This prompted Megyn Kelly to blast my a*s,

which hurt since she's my absolute favorite podcaster.

My show was declared by media outlets as "blatantly r*cist,"

"grossly r*cist," and "having a -year-old host."

All of which are untrue!

I am .

Goo-goo, gah-gah.

It's time as a nation we stop learning and growing and

"feeling bad about reality."

I promise in season two, we are starting fresh.

A clean slate.

The hysteria surrounding Critical Race Theory has

dominated our news cycle for months.

Critical race theory.

Critical race theory.

Critical race theory.

[Ziwe VO] But what exactly is CRT?

I work in the media so I can't answer that,

but I can let you know it's certainly controversial.

[Ziwe VO] Is CRT outrage just a Trojan Horse for the racial

backlash to the George Floyd protests?

Will it single-handedly determine the results of our

midterm elections?

And what do the children think?

Who's to say?

Not me.

Tonight, I'll be talking to controversial icon Charlamagne

tha God.

CRT should be taught in schools.

I'm all for critical race theory.

Black people have built-- we built this country.

[Ziwe VO] And sitting down with controversial parents.

Critical race theory needs an early bed.

[Ziwe] By the end of this episode,

you may be mad.

At what?

You tell me.

Season two of 'Ziwe' starts now.

[laughs]

theme music

My first guest is an accomplished radio and

television host.

Please welcome Charlamagne tha God.

Hey.

Hey Ziwe!

Hi Lenard.

How are you?

It's going to be a beautiful episode.

You know what's so crazy, I love this show, right?

You do?

[Charlamagne] And I used to say--

-Why do you like it? -'Cause you're great.

But I-- the first season, I was like,

how the hell is Ziwe gonna get guests next season?

And here go my dumbass on season two.

[laughs]

So as an acclaimed radio host, can you define CRT in a

package-able second promo for us.

CRT is America not wanting to tell the truth

about this country, period.

It's almost like they're ashamed,

you know, of their past.

So now they're trying to redefine it.

[warping noises]

They always say history is "his story."

So, it's the white man's story of America.

Totally, that's why I always say "herstory."

So it's "her story," as in her,

and her,

and her.

Yeah, I'm all for critical race theory because Black people,

we built this country.

And we built it for free.

You once said, "Even when they call me an Uncle Tom it doesn't

bother me because people used to say the same thing about Martin

Luther King."

How else are you very similar to Martin Luther King?

[laughs]

I don't even remember the context of what the hell I was

talking about.

You just say things?

I think that might've been when Azealia Banks called me an Uncle

Tom.

But that's when people were throwing the term "Uncle Tom"

around and didn't even-- I don't think they really knew what the

term "Uncle Tom" meant.

Are you sure that they didn't know what it meant?

Or are you just trying to not process that insult?

-Yeah, that hurts. -Yeah.

[laughs]

Being called an Uncle Tom hurts.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, I don't wanna embrace that one, yeah.

piano music

Yeah.

I'm gonna let you unpack that.

I'm thinking about it now.

I don't know why I said that.

I must've been trying to make myself feel better

and, so I was--

Yeah, that's what it sounds like.

That's pretty obvious.

I was just looking at people who historically got called

Uncle Toms, and then over time history was kind to them.

But that's not a comparison.

No, it was not a comparison.

Yeah.

[laughs]

Okay, now, you have defined yourself as a prince of

pissing people off, the ruler of rubbing people the wrong

way, the architect of aggravation.

Mm-hm.

What else do you have in common with Tucker Carlson?

Yeah, that's not something I would use to describe myself

anymore.

You're a changed man.

Evolved is a better word.

I think that was, you know, more so for the character of

Charlamagne, which, you know...

On your show, are you playing a character or are you yourself?

Definitely used to be playing a character,

but didn't know I was playing a character.

Yeah.

Sometimes you get caught up in being a character of yourself.

Especially when you see it working.

You're getting rewarded for it, and you know,

people are writing about you, talking about you,

and enjoying it.

And you're like, "Oh, let me give them more of this."

You exist in a space where you're both, like,

sort of radical to white establishment, but then also

part of the the establishment because you have such a big

platform.

Like, what does it mean to be authentically black in

that space?

Um, I mean, I'm authentically me.

We really do live in a multiverse,

where if you pay too much attention to everything that's

going on in this world about you, you'll realize that you're

different things to everybody.

Yes, and no.

Because there are...

Facts exist.

Sort of, kind of.

Oh God.

You might see Charlamagne from years ago,

never met me, and then see me years later and think I'm

that same individual.

Muhammad Ali said, "The person that thinks at the same way

they did at wasted years of their life."

I think you're just an idiot if you haven't grown or evolved in

years.

I think that it's brave to come to that conclusion after you

become rich and famous.

I hope to aspire to that as well.

[Ziwe VO] Next on 'Ziwe.'

I'll be like, I don't [beep]

I don't talk to you after five o'clock, you know what I mean?

Oh my God, why would you point at me like that?

[VO] The following film is rated G for "Gimme that Oscar."

[man] Come towards Jesus!

dramatic music

Ah! Pain!

[VO] In a country divided by race,

only one black woman could carry the weight of the world on her

shoulders with her tolerance for...pain.

Ah!

No, mom.

Jesus says to turn the other cheek.

[crash]

Ha! You whiteys missed!

[screams]

[VO] Traumedy winner at Cannes Film Festival.

From the non-Black producers who brought you 'The Help,'

'Green Book,' and 'The Story of Ziwe,'

'Black Pain.'

[man] Heavenly father, today we pray for Penny Pain!

[VO] Based on glorified abuse for your consumption.

Who is losing her vision!

And pregnant with her th child!

The Lord God has blessed this...

strong...

Black...

woman with the power of resilience!

Ahh!

[VO] Harrowing.

Literally t*rture.

Bad.

This fall, Black suffering is tied together by a loose plot.

[crying]

I'm gonna name him George Washington Carver.

Time of birth, ...

What time is the movie in?

[VO] 'Black Pain' is timeless.

And where are we?

[VO] Black pain is everywhere.

All right, so just for my curiosity,

what does she do for a living?

[VO] I think she's a scientist?

Nevermind.

Ah!

[VO] 'Black Pain.'

It's a biopic.

It's a a horror.

It's a horrible biopic.

Look at the happy baby.

[laughs]

Look at you. Look at you.

-[VO] Pain.

[screaming]

[VO] Pain.

Ah!

[VO] Pain.

Ah!

[VO] Pain.

Blood-curdling scream.

When I hear pain, I get happy, Okay?

Because that's Jesus!

[VO] The least entertaining movie to win an Oscar since all

Black movies that win Oscars are perfect,

no complaints here.

Just happy to be invited to the table,

respectfully, thank you.

'Black Pain,' now playing in select theaters and church

groups near you.

[dinging]

theme music

So you've said on the record that "until Blacks stop

using the *-word, we can't get mad at anybody else for using

the *-word."

So how else do you blame Black people for the racism that we

face in this country?

I would like to say that I said that awhile ago.

Nothing I say is concrete.

I'm very fluid in my thought process by the way.

Oh, how convenient!

But, I go back on forth with that, though.

Yeah.

Because I still use the word, but I use it in context.

So I'll be like, "I don't f*ck with this [beep].

I don't talk to [beep] 'til five o'clock," you know what I mean?

Oh my God, why would you point at me like that?

But I don't mean all Black people.

Anyone who wants to use the *-word,

I would love to interview them about why.

It would be an iconic guest.

So you've had beefs with Lil Mama,

Mo'Nique, Cassie, Azealia Banks, your own co-host, Angela Yee...

The list goes on and on and on and on and on.

Beefs is a strong word.

You've maligned Black women.

So why do you hate Black women exactly?

No, I love Black women.

And I mean, I guess I can see where people would say that if

you want to take those three or four times...

Three or four times?

And put them together in a montage.

Three or four-- c'mon.

[VO] The following was paid for by Ziwe's America.

Why wouldn't I get what legends get?

Because their resume recently is better.

-Okay. -You can just prove it on paper.

Music industry people say I'm dope all the time.

No, you cannot.

What?

But you're the person that's promoting that.

C'mon man.

Yeah, that was totally different.

I know, I real-- yes, you're a different person every year,

c'mon.

Isn't that good, though?

It's almost like they're ashamed of,

you know, their past.

Shouldn't we always constantly evolve?

What's the point of doing new year, new me?

I agree with you, right, like I think that you can't be locked

into your own past, but then, it's like,

let's say I get paid five dollars a day to punch you in

the face.

And I punch you in the face everyday for , days,

and I make , dollars.

And then on the , day, I say,

"I will not punch anyone in the face."

What if I give the money back?

So would you say to this camera that you're pledging to donate

percent of your salary to Black woman's reparations?

percent?

percent.

I will-- I will pledge that I will help,

uh, Black women make a lot of money.

That's so vague.

No, I do it now.

Number one, I got four daughters,

that's number one.

And I'm married to a beautiful Black woman.

Okay, so you have a wife and daughters.

-Yes. -Brave.

[Ziwe VO] Next, on 'Ziwe.'

He hates Black women.

[dinging]

[VO] Coming soon.

upbeat music

'Black Pain : Black Joy.'

[laughter]

[VO] Human emotion, the Black kind.

You once said "Black men don't cheat."

Is that because you like to gaslight people?

I don't cheat.

I can only speak from the perspective of me.

I used to cheat...I did.

Oh, but you're a different person now, I forgot.

Yeah.

Just like I'm a different person with

my little blonde wig.

So, Black men don't cheat today?

Black men don't.

Black boys may still cheat.

Actually, the last time I cheated was October .

That was, like, recently...

No, it was not!

I wasn't-- Aye-yai-yai!

That was over five years ago.

We've had a whole new president.

Over five-- Oh, my God.

That's a whole presidential cycle plus a year.

People have graduated high school and college.

You deadass right now? Are you deadass right now?

Very deadass.

-All of this therapy I've had. -Good, good.

For no reason you're bringing me back to places

I don't wanna go.

Actually I'm asking you, because I don't know if you hate

Black women or not and I wanna know if you've worked through

that in therapy.

Don't pause it and put "He hates Black women."

No comment.

Let's play a game.

theme music

It's time for Generic Historical Figures.

Sing the jingle. Sing the jinngle...

Make a song up...hurry!

Generic Historical Figures

History is a mystery until we...

In radio for years...wow.

Okay, each of these cards contains the name of a

celebrated civil rights figure.

We'll take turns holding up a card to our forehead.

The other person describes the historical figure on the card

until we guess who it is.

Whoever guesses the most cards wins,

but you're not allowed to talk about race at all.

And if you talk about race, a teacher in Wisconsin will

get fired.

I don't care.

You don't care?

If a teacher in Wisconsin gets fired?

What if they're a Black woman?

True, indeed.

Very true.

All right, are you ready to play?

-Yes. -Okay, cool.

Okay, here is a character, and lots of streets are named

after him.

Martin Luther King Jr.

Yes, and I was about to say you think you're him,

and look...

Alex Haley wrote his autobiography.

Oh, Malcolm X.

He is actually-- yes.

He is actually the greatest example of evolution ever in the

history of this country.

Okay, and so you're now comparing yourself to Malcolm X,

just to bookend the beginning of the interview when you said you

would never compare yourself to a Civl Rights icon like Martin

Luther King, but Malcolm X, oh!

theme music

It's time for the game.

It's called "Where's Daequan?"

Hit me with a jingle, quick.

Where's Daequan, Daequan...

That was, like, r*cist.

Now, Where's Waldo is a children's game that we couldn't

get the rights to, and basically in Where's Waldo you single out

white men, and I don't think it's cool to hunt white men for

sport, but today we're going to play a version of that called

"Where's Daequan?"

Now, I'm not gonna tell you what Daequan looks like,

what his profession is, what he does for a living. ..

Nothing.

I'm not going to tell you anything about him.

Independent qualities.

But I want you to find him.

Oof, wow. This is tough.

[Ziwe] And you are not allowed to leave until you find him.

Where's Daequan?

[Charlamagne] Where is he? Where is Daequan?

Initially I looked right over by the police officer,

but, um, where's Daequan?

Where is he?

Um, would this happen to be Daequan right here?

Why would you assume that's Daequan?

Because he's the biggest, most powerful looking individual on

that whole board.

Or is it because you're centered in your own perspective

and as a Black man you only see yourself in the world and that's

how you approach everything?

I didn't tell you that Daequan was a man.

Well, let me ask you a question, Ziwe.

Why no Black women on that board?

I don't see not one single Black woman.

Because this is your mind.

Because this is a symbol of where you live.

Yes, Black privilege.

Yes, shook ones.

Ah, I read the books.

I watched the interviews.

You don't think I know?

I digress.

This is a fantastic interview.

Now, I have one more question before you're welcome to leave.

Will Biden win in ?

No, [beeping] Biden...

First of all, Democrats [beeping] and I highly doubt

they win in [beeping]...

Because the jig is up.

Well, I love that you came on my show to proselytize

about politics.

I don't even know what that word means.

I'm Ziwe and I firmly believe that race should not be taught

in schools, unless the race in question is how fast I rose to

the top.

[dinging]

playing piano

Now that we're in a post-racial America,

you history nerds need to get over it and stop crying.

No pressure, Lebron.

If you're a teacher and you use this show to teach

your students about race, expect an invoice.

[dinging]

[Ziwe VO] In the upcoming midterms,

there are only three letters more important than CRT,

and that's PTA.

CRT is r*cist.

It is a*usive.

You created a curriculum of Black Panther indoctrination.

[Ziwe VO] SO I decided to talk to some parents to get

their opinions on this hot-button issue.

If you think Critical Race Theory doesn't belong in your

kid'a school, show up, say why.

CRT is being used an excuse to say that standardized tests

are r*cist.

I believe Critical Race Theory is a distraction.

Critical Race Theory is a huge problem.

[Ziwe VO] Class is in session.

I'm beyond excited to talk to you icons.

I feel like I'm apart of history.

Now, a question for you...

Why does CRT suck?

Why is it the devil?

Why shouldn't it be taught in schools?

We have to define critical race theory.

What's your definition of critical race theory?

What's your definition of critical race theory?

Well, let's go to the experts.

The New York Times defined it...

[Ziwe] Okay.

...among other things, as, "a lack of color blindness."

And when you ask me what I don't like about Critical Race Theory,

that sums it up right there.

Do not tell my -year-old son,

a young Black man that I'm raising, that,

"Oh, you know what?

The system, you know, it's against you no matter what you

do, no matter how hard you try,

you're still Black and you have that as a disadvantage."

And then tell my son's classmate,

"Well, you know what?

Well, you're white, so you're kind of born with a silver spoon

in your mouth, and everything you do is going to be easy."

No!

Everything we say, there are a hundred parents that feel the

same way but for whatever reason don't feel that they can say it.

You're the silent majority.

Yes.

What I'm saying is that all of our children deserve more

nuanced, more thoughtful history.

In no way does it mean you should whitewash history or

teach only positive things about this country,

because you have to teach the whole and true and complete

history.

No one still has stood up and said,

"Let's define critical race theory."

You're saying...

You defined it five minutes ago.

[school bell]

I'm going to give you some true or false statements,

and you say "true" or "false."

Ready?

True or false, education in this country is deteriorating at a

rapid pace?

True.

True or false, we are young, beautiful country.

-Yes. -We still are.

True or false, sl*very was a long time ago.

-True. -True?

-True? -True.

-Maude, you gonna-- -Yeah, I'll say true.

True or false, we are the best country.

-True. -True.

U-S-A. U-S-A.

-True. -U-S-A.

You guys do not join me on my chants.

Can you guys stand up?

We have to do the national anthem, as well.

Please... [singing] Lift every voice...

-Do you guys not know it? -I don't know this.

"Lift Every Voice and Sing."

[singing] Lift every voice and sing...

Till earth and heaven ring?

Wow, okay.

[bell ringing]

We know that children, as infants,

recognize race.

We've done studies where they recognize Black faces and white

faces.

[woman] Really? Actually Vito, I was gonna say

my daughter, actually, did not.

Yeah, Vito.

[laughter]

No, I mean...

[Vito] I don't know, we need a fact checker.

We have to loosen up.

Have you ever played the game charades?

-Yes. -Right, okay.

[bell ringing]

orchestral music

Swim, flow...

Tommy Smith and Gene Carlos at the Olympics.

Oh, my goodness!

C'mon Vito, you've got the charisma.

Okay... What is happening?

[laughs]

[Ziwe] Mona is begrudgingly...

Stand there...okay.

Punitive segregation.

You can tell us. You can tell us.

Jim Crow.

Jim Crow?

Wait, what?!

Why is Mona...?

Why does that have to do with her standing over there?

Separate.

Oh, separate.

Like, separate but equal.

Um...

[bell ringing]

We want to be color blind.

We want to live in a world where we look at each other as

individuals, irrespective of what they look like or where

they come from.

MLK.

[Ziwe] MLK.

It's about the content of your character.

Work hard.

Study hard.

Work hard.

Even playing field.

And that's also one of the reasons why I'm also supporter

of standardized tests, because again it's what we have.

It's the objective measure that we have to know that our

children are learning.

[bell ringing]

[Ziwe VO] I decided to give the parents a standardized test

question of my own.

Dequan has gats.

If he pops one, how many gats does he have left?

How many what?

[Ziwe] Gats.

Spell that.

Can you spell that please?

Upper middle class Black children are not failing

standardized tests.

Yes, because they're rich.

They're doing just as well as middle class kids.

Ah, so then there's not a race problem.

There's a poverty problem that has been exacerbated by first

sl*very, then segregation, then Jim Crow.

-[Ziwe] Yes, yes! -[Vito] Then bias.

But what are the answers to help?

To help ameliorate all of these problems.

Let's say it at the same time.

Ready? One, two, three...

Reparations.

[laughs]

Reparations in the form of making school teachers work

days a year instead of .

You want them to work more?

Make school go from : in the morning to : in the evening.

Do you... What?

[bell ringing]

If you look in your desks, you have some art in front of you.

Now, I'll say a term and you can draw how it makes you feel.

Critical Race Theory. How does it make you feel?

instrumental music

She drew a vomit.

Can you show me what you drew?

Angry face.

What did you draw?

Eyes rolling.

Okay.

-Vomit. -Vomit?

Yes.

[Ziwe] Vomit. Like...[sighs]

[bell ringing]

The group of us here are so diverse and we're friendly,

and we're friends, because of what binds us together.

And it's not race.

It's not ethnicity.

It's perhaps a common view of the world.

A hatred of Critical Race Theory.

No, that's not true.

Don't say that.

I feel like I've-- I'm--

I understand less what Critical Race Theory means now.

[laughter]

We're relying on you.

We're trusting you not to edit this in a way so we look like

horrible people.

[ding]

[Ziwe] Have you ever personally been,

um, by cancel culture?

I'm uncancelable.

Cancel culture is one of the biggest threats to this country.

To come here and talk to you today,

I had to have a PCR test, a rapid test.

You're getting mad at me?

I'm not getting mad at you.

You can't deny that percent of the Black and brown children

in this city don't read and do math at grade level.

So isn't that racism?

What's racism?

If you wanna say America is an inherently r*cist country,

well why is it that the top -- I don't know if it's six or seven

or eight, um -- racial groups that earn the most

are non-white?

You have Indians and Nigerians and Japanese and people in this

country.

Stop with the pronouns.

Stop with the pronouns?

Stop with the pronouns.

Where did that come from?

Wow.

Wow. A lot I'm ingesting.

Wow. Wow!

Parents are powerful.

They've shown that they can be a powerful voting block,

and I hope what happened in places like Virginia is going to

continue in other parts of the country, and I hope parents make

their voices heard with the midterm elections coming up.

I think that's a perfect note to end on.

CRT.

Is great.

We love.

CRT.

[bell ringing]

[Ziwe VO] American democracy, you gotta love it.

So this episode on Critical Race Theory may have left you

with some questions like, "What is Critical Race Theory?"

So here to finally define CRT is my very smart writer,

Ike Ufomadu.

Welcome, Ike.

Uh, thank you.

-Now... -[chuckles] Yes, uh...

orchestral music

Okay, how would you describe why you're qualified to talk

about CRT.

Um, I...

Uh...

I'm not qualified, but you asked me to do it.

So that's why I'm here to...

I'm just, uh...

What does CRT stand for?

Critical Race Theory.

Okay, you got one.

And what a one.

Please define it.

CRT is...

So in the few articles I've read,

it seems like basically...

CRT...

what it posits is that...

um...

There are certain structural features in American society.

Let's say, in particular, that, um,

result in a certain kind of...

institutionalized racism.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Could you describe it without talking about race?

[laughs]

Critical Race Theory?

[clears throat] Without race...

Race is sort of at the center of

the term Critical Race Theory.

I don't know if it's possible

to do this without it being divisive

because of the climate that we live in right now.

Because of the climate?

[chuckles] Well....

Because of the climate,

not because you've read four articles total.

It's because of the climate.

Critical Race Theory is important to understand...

because without understanding what it is,

it can be easily changed into what it is not.

And what is it not?

Okay, this I know.

What it is not is a catch all term for...

an everything...

Oh!

And has been around for awhile.

How long?

Since the late s.

Pretty confident about that.

Did you get that on the Wikipedia page?

I don't want to divulge my sources.

How many Black friends do you have?

I have too many to count.

theme music

Kanye gets on my nerves.

He's the biggest dickrider of dysfunction.

What?

We live in an era where people dickride dysfunction.

He dickrides dysfunction.