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01x04 - Trek Goes To The Movies

Episode transcripts for the TV show, "The Center Seat: 55 Years of Star Trek". Aired: November 5, 2021.*
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Chronicles rare and fascinating details of how "Star Trek" began, where it's been, and how it's going where no television series has gone before.

01x04 - Trek Goes To The Movies

Post by bunniefuu »

GATES: On the eve

of the '80s,

a decade after cancellation,

Star Trek was back.

The motion picture had

successfully relaunched

the franchise,

taking more than three times

its budget at the box office.

I could never believe it.

GATES: Well, despite earning

$139,000 worldwide...

[CASH REGISTER DINGS]

...a sequel to the original

motion picture

was anything but a certainty.

So, beam aboard,

and hold on tight

as we boldly go into

the depths of Star Trek.

And you can see

it all from here,

in The Center Seat.

Despite having made millions,

and the studio's desire to make

a follow up to

Star Trek: The Motion Picture,

there were still issues.

By that time, the perception was

despite its financial success,

which you would think

would be enough,

it just didn't do

what they wanted it to do.

GATES:

"They" being the studio,

and "they" didn't like

how the motion picture

had been made.

The lack of discipline

during production

was legendary.

GATES: But the studio

had a solution.

We're gonna make this picture,

and it's gonna be done

out of the eyes

of the television division.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

The thinking being obviously

that folks on television

know how to do things cheaper.

GATES: You didn't need

to tell Star Trek creator

Gene Roddenberry twice.

A TV guy through and through,

he cranked out the script

in no time.

Which was the crew

of the Enterprise

being involved

in the assassination JFK

and sort of writing history.

GATES: And Paramount

wrote back immediately.

They rejected it

with a form letter.

[READING]

And this is going

to Gene Roddenberry.

GATES: Paramount had adopted

a less is more approach

to Roddenberry.

They didn't want

to deal with him.

GATES: No one did.

His last writer had

only one message for him:

"Don't ever touch my script,

you b*stard!"

He wouldn't stop rewriting.

He was just maniacal about it.

GATES: Years of

creative interference

had burned too many bridges

with Paramount.

When Star Trek:

The Motion Picture

got mixed reviews,

and because the budget

went so far over,

even though that had

nothing to do with

Gene Roddenberry at all,

Paramount used that

as an excuse

to take Star Trek away

from Gene Roddenberry.

And he was demoted.

GATES: You could say

Gene was his own worst enemy.

But there's a theory

that explains complicated

characters like him.

Did you ever hear

the Moses-Joshua

theory of creation?

GATES: It's the idea

that some creative types

are like Moses.

They bring into existence

something that

wasn't there before.

GATES:

But like Moses himself,

they lack certain

managerial skills,

needing organized types

like Joshua.

He's a can-do person.

That is brilliant.

Gene led us through the desert

for 40 years, yeah.

But he couldn't deliver.

GATES: But Gene wasn't

entirely banished

from the Promised Land.

He was given the courtesy

of a tiny little office.

They gave him

a new contract that said

that he would be a very

well paid script consultant.

GATES:

But in Hollywood terms...

That meant that he had no power.

He was not in control.

GATES: Well,

no power officially.

But Gene, a master

of the dark arts of PR,

wasn't ready

to de-materialize just yet.

Meanwhile, Paramount

had found their Joshua.

Guy named Harve Bennett.

TENUTO: Incredibly popular.

He knew how to do

a science fiction show.

GATES: Having cut his teeth

on The Mod Squad,

The Six Million Dollar Man

and The Bionic Woman,

he knew how to make

the ordinary extraordinary.

And...

He knew how to do a show

under budget.

GATES: Harve Bennett met

with Paramount executives.

They asked him

for his honest opinion

on Star Trek:

The Motion Picture.

And he said,

"Do I tell the truth or do I,

"you know, give him something

he wants to hear?"

GATES: What he said

shocked no one.

Kind of boring.

"My kids are

falling asleep during it."

And they said, "Okay, can you

make us a Star Trek movie

"for less than



And he very famously said,

"Sir, I could make

"three better pictures

for what you spent."

GATES: Harve was speaking

Paramount's language

and the budget for the sequel

reflected that.

- To the tune of...

- 13 million dollars.

- [CASH REGISTER DINGS]

- GATES: For that kind

of money, you could barely make

the opening titles

of most blockbuster sci-fis.

So Harve went to a producer

whose middle name

is "Resourceful."

I had gone to

the UCLA film school

before film was fashionable,

and one of my classmates

was a guy named Harve Bennett.

GATES: And one day,

out of the blue,

his old friend called him.

And he says,

"I'd like you to produce

the Star Trek thing."

And I said,

"Sure, why not? Okay."

GATES: So while Harve

nailed down the story,

Bob's job...

Was to do everything else.

GATES:

With no real ideas yet,

Harve returned to Star Trek's

roots for inspiration.

Harve did screen

all the previous episodes,

and it was in doing so

that he came up with the idea

of bringing Khan back

into the picture, as it were.

GATES: Khan was

the genetically engineered

alpha male

made famous

by Ricardo Montalban

in the episode "Space Seed."

My name is Khan.

Please sit and entertain me.

And if Khan was back,

Montalban was back.

Older, wiser,

and even more famous,

thanks to some truly

fantastic performances.

Welcome to Fantasy Island.

Montalban is

an underrated actor.

He's a fantastic actor.

He played a great

variety of roles

and always a polished,

beautiful performance.

GATES: But there would

also be a spot on the bridge

for a fresh young face.

Stand by.

And it seemed like the young

and relatively unknown

Kirstie Alley

had a knack

for being a good match.

I had done Match Game.

[CHEERING]

GATES: That went so well,

they wanted

to match her up again.

So they asked me

to do Password,

and I was lucky enough

to have Lucille Ball

as the celebrity on Password.

GATES: That's right,

the very same Lucille Ball

who financed Star Trek

in the first place.

And although purely

a coincidence...

It was just like...

It was like a dream come true.

GATES: It seemed that fate

had decided Kirstie Alley

and Star Trek were

a perfect match.

The most amazing thing

about Star Trek for me,

other than it was the first job

I ever had as an actor,

was that Nick Meyer

and Harve Bennett

really championed me.

GATES: Because what they saw

in the young Kirstie Alley

was more than

just her good looks.

You know, basically, Saavik

doesn't have any humor at all.

I think it took somebody

with a lot of humor

to put over that

particular brand

of humorless-ness.

Humor...

It is a difficult concept.

GATES: But just as

a new Vulcan was confirmed,

the original

suddenly disappeared.

Leonard Nimoy did not want to do

another Star Trek movie.

He thought it'd be a good time

to retire the character.

GATES: Spock or no Spock,

Harve Bennett and Paramount

continued to develop

the script,

even turning to writers

from the original series.

It was a revolving door,

it seemed to me, of writers.

GATES: Taking bits

and pieces from everyone,

they were far from

having one script

they were all happy with.

The clock was ticking.

I was very concerned.

GATES: Then it was

an unexpected break in casting

that would give the script

a new direction.

Nimoy had changed his tune,

telling producers...

"I would love to do it."

...meaning he'd love

to come back as Spock,

but under one condition:

Leonard said, "Write me out.

"Find an exit for Spock."

That is wise.

So Harve Bennett called Leonard

a few days later and said...

GATES: What no fan

would want to hear.

"We're gonna k*ll Spock."

And Nimoy said, "Okay, great."

GATES: Nimoy loved it,

but the creator

of Mr. Spock didn't.

Spock was supposed to get k*lled

ten pages into the script.

Gene Roddenberry

hears about this,

and he feels this is

the end of Star Trek.

GATES: Gene was

incensed at the idea.

"You don't have to k*ll Spock.

"You can just have him

going back to Vulcan."

Unfortunately, nobody

would listen to him.

He did not have

any responsibility

for the production

or for shaping the material.

GATES: But that wouldn't

stop him from trying.

Gene would send us memos.

They were,

by and large, disregarded.

GATES: But Gene was not

going to just sit by

and watch them k*ll off

one of his favorite characters!

This was personal for Gene.

GATES: So Gene resorted

to one of his oldest tricks.

He leaked, through

Susan Sackett, his assistant,

that Spock was gonna get k*lled

in the first ten minutes.

How did they know this? Well...

They had put sort of

a code on the scripts

so they could track

the scripts back.

GATES: But by the time

they found out who did it,

it was too late.

And the fans had an uprising.

GATES: And once again...

Paramount was being flooded

with letters and phone calls.

GATES: Threatening to

boycott the movie...

Unless Spock was not k*lled off.

GATES: But some fans took it

much further than that.

And the next thing I know,

on my home telephone

answering machine,

I got a message.

GATES: A message

that cut right to the point.

MAN: "You k*ll Spock

and we'll k*ll you."

I've served in the Marine Corps,

and I've served

in the Air Force,

and I've never had

my life in danger.

But I'm producing

a Star Trek picture,

and my life is being threatened?

We were kind of being

driven up the wall

by the volume of mail,

by pressure tactics,

by certain people who,

as I say,

felt over-possessive

about Star Trek.

So we simply decided

on a policy,

and the policy is closed set.

GATES: But before

they could close the set,

Robert would have

to find a director.

What I found out is

a lot of people

didn't want to do Star Trek,

a lot of people

didn't want to do a sequel,

a lot of directors didn't want

to do sci-fi,

and a lot of directors

weren't available.

GATES: There must be

somebody who wanted the gig.

So I made up a list.

I must have had 30

or 40 people on my list.

GATES: Down a long

list of names,

Bob came across this guy.

I'm Nicholas Meyer,

and I write and direct movies.

GATES: But back in 1982,

Nick had only one film

under his belt,

meaning Star Trek was...

Only the second movie

I'd ever made my life.

GATES: And a complete novice

when it came

to the Star Trek universe.

But we talked, and he got it.

GATES:

Comparing Star Trek to...

Hornblower in outer space.

GATES: Words almost out of

Gene Roddenberry's mouth.

So we signed him.

GATES: Cigar and all.

Harve and I walked out,

and Harve turned to me

and said, "I don't know."

I said, "What's wrong?"

And he said,

"He's gonna be trouble."

GATES: But the trouble was

all Nicholas' for now.

He was faced with

five different scripts.

So I read them.

GATES:

And from five scripts, Nicholas

came up with one idea.

Why don't we make a list

of all the things we like

in these five scripts,

and then we'll try

to cobble this together.

and make a new movie

that incorporates

as much of this as possible.

GATES: Which was

a great idea,

until Nicholas found out

he only had 12 days

to write it.

Ah.

They say, well, the problem is

that if we don't have a draft

of a script in 12 days,

ILM...

GATES: That's effects house

Industrial Light and Magic.

...say they cannot deliver

the special effects shots.

in time for the June opening.

At which point

Nicholas asked...

"What June opening?"

It never rains, but it pours.

And they said, you know,

we've booked the thing

into 600 theaters

or something.

You booked it into the theaters

and there's no movie?

GATES: Nonetheless,

Nicholas said...

"Well, okay, I think I can

do this in 12 days."

To which Bob replied...

"There's no argument from me."

GATES: Paramount finally

had a writer-director

who could work with their

ridiculous schedule.

Our concern was

that they're gonna drag

their feet on this upstairs

in the administration building.

GATES: Although Nicholas

was already signed on

as a director,

he would have to wait until

his writing deal was complete

before starting the script.

They said,

"Well, we couldn't even

make your deal in 12 days."

And that's when

I sort of made my mistake,

and I said,

"Well, forget about my deal.

Forget about money.

Forget about credit."

You know, I was

really dumbstruck.

GATES: Nicholas agreed

to write the movie...

For free.

- Not just that...

- Um...

...he agreed to do it

without any credit.

I really wanted

to make this movie.

I was jonesing

for this thing by now.

And later he told me,

"My agent told me I was crazy."

GATES: Crazy or not,

the movie was now

on Nicholas' shoulders.

With just 12 days to write

this Star Trek movie sequel...

As I worked, it was like

fiddling with a Rubik's Cube.

It was mad libs.

GATES:

Taking bits and pieces

from previous straps...

ALTMAN: The Genesis Project...

Genesis is life.

Kirk meets his son.

[GRUNTS]

Lt. Saavik.

Thank you, sir.

The simulator sequence.

What about my performance?

I'm not a drama critic.

But along the way,

certain themes are

jumping out at you.

GATES: And Nicholas realized

he was writing a movie about...

Friendship, old age,

and death.

Other people have birthdays.

Why are we treating yours

like a funeral?

Bones, I don't want

to be lectured.

And this is a cast

that is getting older,

so rather than pretending

that they're not...

Who am I hiding from?

...go at it head on.

From yourself, Admiral.

Give him glasses.

GATES: It sounded

like the answer

to everyone's prayers.

He saved us.

GATES:

Called The Wrath of Khan,

this Star Trek sequel

had everything.

[PHONE RINGING]

MEYER: I get a call

from Harve Bennett.

He said, "We have a problem."

I said, "What's the problem?"

He says, "Bill Shatner

hates the script."

"What, he...

he hates the script?"

And I think, "Again,

only my second movie.

"Oh, that's it, we're done.

We're toast."

This is a disaster.

GATES: There was only

one thing for it,

a meeting with the producers.

All I remember

about the meeting is

that I had to keep getting up

and going to pee.

I didn't know where to put

either my embarrassment,

or my rage.

GATES: While Nicholas'

bladder took the initial hit...

And I'm sitting there

totally finished.

GATES:...drawing on years

of experience,

executive producer

Harve Bennett

had already

diagnosed the problem...

Correct.

GATES:...with Shatner,

not Nicholas' bathroom problem.

Basically figured out

that Bill wanted to make sure

that he was always

the first man through the door.

Permission to come aboard again.

Welcome, Admiral.

He was the leading guy.

So I was learning

how to write for a star.

GATES: And like every

screen actor ever,

Shatner was also worried about

the one number more important

to an actor than his fee.

The original script

specified Kirk's age.

And Shatner felt Captain Kirk

should be ageless, thinking...

They don't have to put

a number on him.

GATES: But I guess now

we'll never know.

Forty-nine in the script.

Happy birthday.

That wasn't something that

William Shatner wanted to do.

I think also,

for the character,

you don't want it to be

pinned down like that.

Thank you.

He was

understandably protective

of what he had created.

The character of Kirk.

GATES: So Nicholas rewrote

with the star's ego in mind.

I went home

and fixed the thing

in eight hours

and just sent it back to him.

GATES: Shatner's response

came back at warp speed.

Lights.

He left a message

on my voice message machine.

GATES: Which said

something like this...

"You are a genius"

and something,

something, something.

GATES: And with that,

he had his star's blessing.

And I used to play it back

to him every now and again

when I was, you know,

having issues.

And I was like, "Hey, Bill,

just take a listen."

You are a genius and something,

something, something.

GATES: Now, with the script

settled, Nicholas was free

to pursue his vision

of an action adventure,

taking inspiration from

military dramas such as...

The movie called

The Enemy Below.

GATES: Because for

high drama on a low budget,

nothing beats a claustrophobic

contest of wills.

And so I went all out

to make it more like

a submarine, like destroyers.

Those things are

not built for comfort.

GATES: That meant

making everything...

Smaller, claustrophobic.

GATES: No minor detail

was spared.

MEYER: Why aren't there

blinking lights?

Let's just put

a lot of those in.

GATES: More than just light,

Nicholas needed an epic score.

But he was short on cash.

Jerry Goldsmith

was too expensive.

GATES: While Jerry had

done a fantastic job

on Star Trek:

The Motion Picture,

his fee would have

consumed the entire

special effects budget

on The Wrath of Khan.

So Jerry Goldsmith was out.

So we just started

listening to music.

GATES: Back in 1982,

that meant cassettes

and lots of them.

MEYER: Composers would send in

samples of their work,

and I'd drive

to and from the studio

listening to these cassettes.

GATES: And on one

fateful morning,

Nicholas came across...

James Horner,

whoever that was...

GATES: Well,

since you asked,

he was just a young composer

looking for a break.

...had sent in a tape,

and I really liked it.

GATES: That's how

James Horner became

the composer

for The Wrath of Khan.

Well, actually, that's not

how Robert remembers it.

As a matter of fact,

neither Harve nor Nick

had anything to do with it.

You know, maybe I shouldn't

talk about this.

MEYER: Of course you should.

GATES: To be fair, Nicholas

isn't arguing with him.

As I wrote in my memoir,

memory is fallible.

So how does Robert remember it?

I knew I wanted something

somewhat operatic.

I went to Joel Silver,

who was then

the head of music department

at Paramount,

and I told him

the kind of thing

I was looking for.

And I said, "Joel,"

I said, "What I don't want

is musical wallpaper."

And he gave me

I don't know how many cassettes

of different composers.

GATES: Okay,

those parts line up.

And I rejected all of them

except Jamie Horner.

GATES: Now, whether it was

Robert or Nicholas

who found this diamond

in the rough,

what really mattered

is that Horner wouldn't

break the budget.

His creative fee for scoring

this film was $10,000.

GATES: Which was

quite a steal.

So much so that Bob felt

kind of guilty about it.

And they gave him $25,000 bonus.

GATES: Not bad

for a first timer.

Meanwhile, this old timer

didn't vibe with the changes

Gene Roddenberry,

I remember getting a memo,

didn't like them.

He thought there were

way too militaristic.

GATES: But having been

relegated to a small office...

That was... just the way

it was gonna be.

GATES:

Because Nicholas Meyer

had drawn inspiration

from another classic film...

The Prisoner of Zenda

has the high collars,

and the wide flaps...

GATES: Which not only

framed the face beautifully...

Gives a color contrast.

But it was going to take

more than fancy uniforms

to make a splash

at the box office.

Oh.

They would need

state-of-the-art

special effects

from the legendary

wizards at ILM,

while obeying Paramount's

prime directive.

Here's your budget,

doesn't change,

work within that.

GATES: A budget

that was a lot less

than other films of the era.

But director Nicholas Meyer

was undaunted.

Art thrives on restrictions.

And also, I had a lot of help

from Robert Sallin...

GATES: Who oversaw

much of ILM's work

for the young director...

He watched my back.

...and kept the designs

under budget

with a few clever tricks.

The design of the Regula One...

GATES:...where

the scientists were working

on the Genesis Project,

was actually

the Orbital Office Complex.

It was left-over

from the first film,

and I just said,

"Turn it upside down."

And that's what they did.

GATES:

And didn't cost a cent.

If I could save a buck

on the models,

I was going to do it.

GATES: But when it came

to the USS Reliant,

a cheap hack wouldn't do.

We did the same thing.

Yeah, I just flipped

the Enterprise upside down.

And so, instead of having

the cells up here,

the cells were down here.

GATES:

Yep, totally different.

Yep.

GATES: So, with the

upside down ships...

I said, "How does that look?"

...a cobbled together script,

maroon uniforms

and a green director,

they began

rolling on production

on November 9th, 1981.

Roy?

SALLIN: We started production.

With just three days in,

Robert sounded

the distress signal.

At the end of

the first three days,

uh, Nick was a week behind.

So Robert did

what anyone would do...

I panicked.

Pure and simple.

I didn't know where

this was gonna go.

And I didn't know what to do.

GATES:

Robert soon found himself

producing a movie

whose director

he couldn't get through to.

Nick didn't know me,

and I think he was

protective and hesitant

and afraid that I would somehow

impinge on his world

or something.

And Nick was resistant.

I couldn't put my arm

around Nick

and say, "Nick, listen to me.

"You're in trouble.

"Now, I'm gonna help you.

"Let me see if I can do that."

His attitude was always

keeping me at a distance.

I was very busy.

GATES: It was like there was

a forcefield around Nick.

So Robert made a call

he thought was the only way

to save the second

Star Trek movie.

I went to management,

and I said,

"Here's what's going on.

"This could be a big problem

"and I think

you should replace him."

GATES: With his

inexperienced director

falling behind...

I went to management.

GATES:...and delivered

a scathing report

to Paramount's top brass.

"I think you should

replace him."

[SCOFFS]

GATES: But Paramount's

chief operating officer,

Michael Eisner,

saw things differently.

He said, "No, we're

not gonna do that."

GATES: Eisner was concerned

about Paramount's reputation.

He said, "Because nobody'll

want to work at Paramount."

And I said, "Fair enough."

GATES: So, stuck with

his young director for now,

Robert put the pressure on.

We were able to get

the message across

to Nick, and he was receptive.

GATES: But being behind,

he'd have to find ways

to make up time.

I had to fly down quickly

to get on set immediately.

GATES: On such a highly

technical sh**t,

Ken's experience

would come in handy.

I come down, I have probably

my little bit of crew.

We go in...

GATES: And waited

for the young director to get

to his special effects shots.

[CRICKETS CHIRPING]

And then waited some more.

They never got to the shot.

I'll say this for him:

He's consistent.

GATES: The ILM

effect wizards were

just sitting around,

conjuring up no light

nor magic.

So, I had to

constantly help him

back into

the visual effects scenes.

GATES:

Beginning with storyboarding

many of the film's

special effects sequences

with the help

of art director Mike Minor.

So I remember

clearly saying to Mike,

"You know, that battle..."

GATES: That battle would be

the epic final showdown

between the Enterprise...

There she is!

GATES:...and Khan's

stolen Reliant.

We can't whip

these things around

like World w*r I

fighter planes.

You know, they're lumbering,

slow-moving things.

And I said, "We need

to have some way

"to enhance the tension."

GATES: And the clever

solution proved to be

right in front of their noses.

How about if we hid them

in a nebula?

GATES:

The gaseous clouds proved

to be the perfect setting

for a spatial chess match.

My logical conclusion was

to do it with a cloud tank.

GATES:

Of course, a cloud tank.

Sorry. What's a cloud tank?

The cloud tank is basically

a large metal container

with glass panels on each side,

and it's filled with warm water

up to about three quarters

of the way up.

Then, insanely,

you would lay a piece

of plastic on it.

Very gently.

GATES: But they were

not done yet.

Then you would gently

pour in cold water

and you would create

an inversion layer.

GATES: Meaning once

the clear wrap was removed,

the two layers would mix,

with lights used

to add cosmic colors.

RALSTON: And it starts to give

almost a look of thunderheads

or clouds that are spreading,

and there's a nice

fake sense of a scale to it

when you do that.

GATES: Some of Robert's

money-saving ideas for effects

were so cheap,

they were literally

the garden variety.

The original script called

for a creature to attach itself

to the back of Chekov's neck.

GATES: But Bob felt

they could do a little better.

I was going out

to get my newspaper.

I saw a slug.

And I hate those things.

But anyway, I said,

"Hey, is it feasible

"that a little slimy

thing like that

"could enter the human ear

"and lodge itself maybe

in the cerebral cortex?"

GATES: The answer was yes...

For God's sakes.

...which was money

in the bank for Robert.

I said, "Great!"

That's when I got so excited.

So I went up to ILM

and I told

Ken Ralston about it.

GATES: And Ken got to work

crafting Bob's space slug.

I took a piece of poly foam,

cut these little,

you know, little segments

in this thing

very delicately, left a small

little thing in the middle

so it was flexible,

stuck it on their face,

and they had

a monofilament line,

and I would just pull.

It would actually do this.

Ah!

It could be that simple.

GATES: While the slug had

no trouble borrowing

into Chekov

and Terrell's heads,

director Nicholas Meyer

was having a hard time

getting through to Shatner.

There's a moment in the movie

where he's supposed to give

Khan some information.

Give me some time to recall

the data on our computers.

I give you 60 seconds, Admiral.

MEYER: And Kirk has a line,

"Here it comes."

And the first time

Bill says it,

he goes, "Here it comes."

[CRICKETS CHIRPING]

And I say, "Bill,

"this guy is super smart."

Time is a luxury

you don't have, Admiral.

If you say that

with this, like,

sarcasm dripping

off the lens...

Just don't give away

the, you know,

what you've got up your sleeve.

GATES: His star

wouldn't take the note.

It was still late.

GATES: But like

Captain Kirk himself,

Nick had something

up his sleeve.

I just kept doing it.

Time's up.

That was no good for sound.

Time's up.

"I'm sorry,

we were soft focus."

Time's up.

And he got bored.

And look at the end result.

Here it comes.

Now, Mr. Spock.

When he became bored

and less aware

of how he was presenting,

he got really good.

GATES: But subtlety

went out the window

the day Ricardo Montalban

arrived on the set.

We came on. We were

doing the cargo bay sequence,

which introduces Khan...

but he screamed the whole thing

at the top of his lungs.

This is Ceti Alpha V!

I was awestruck.

The whole crew was

sort of standing around.

GATES: And while Nicholas

was comfortable

asking William Shatner

for more takes,

the esteemed Ricardo Montalban

was a whole different story.

I really didn't know

what to do

because I was

sort of awed by him.

GATES: And that did not

bode well for the production.

A director, that's the one

person you look to

for how the sh**t

is going to go.

GATES: Nicholas had

a choice to make.

And I thought,

"Is he going to yell at me

"if I try to tell him

anything?"

I wasn't really sure.

GATES: Not wanting

to incur the wrath of Khan,

Nick took the villain off set,

hoping to appeal

to the artist within.

I said, "You know,

Lawrence Olivier..."

this is my idol, "once said

"that an actor should never

show an audience his top.

"Because once you

show them your top,

"they know you've got

no place else to go."

And he said, "Uh-huh.

"You're going to direct me?

"Oh, that's great.

"I need direction.

"I don't know

what I'm doing up there."

GATES: Montalban

returned to set

to deliver his second take.

And it was flawless.

You couldn't make it

any better than that.

I gave him these



He hit every one of them.

They didn't do a second take.

They didn't have to.

But from then on,

Bill and Leonard's performances

elevated. [LAUGHS]

It was just... just enough.

I don't think anyone

else noticed it,

but I did,

and it made me smile.

GATES: But someone's reviews

were less than stellar

for the new kid on set.

[LAUGHS] I don't know

if I've ever told this.

At one point,

I was told that

Bill wanted me

to have some acting lessons

in the middle

of making the movie.

GATES: News that

Bob broke to Kirstie

in the middle of lunch.

So I did,

and I took her to lunch.

And I gently

made the proposition.

I said, how about us

hiring a drama coach

to work with her?

I was a bit of a hooligan.

I went out all the time.

I wasn't great at

knowing all my lines.

I was handling it

a bit like a dilettante.

So I could see how

someone would go like,

"Oh, my God.

"Oh, my freaking God,

"she needs this

or she needs that."

And I was like,

"Okay, I guess."

But I also knew that

if I just had my lines

learned better

and didn't act so wild-a*s

that it would appear

than I was a much better actor.

Uh... [CHUCKLES] So...

GATES: So,

one way or another,

Kirstie had those lessons.

And I thought her performance

was better because of it.

GATES: But for another

young actor in the cast,

all the acting lessons

in the world

couldn't save him.

And who do we have here?

Midshipman First Class,

Peter Preston.

The scene that

I auditioned with

was the scene that ended up

getting cut from the film.

GATES: A colorful exchange

between Preston

and Captain Kirk.

I believe you'll find

everything shipshape, Admiral.

Oh, do you?

And we learn that

it's Scotty's nephew.

My sister's youngest, Admiral.

And they cut that out

at the time,

and it made Scotty's reaction

kind of inexplicable.

He stayed at his post.

GATES: But not quite

as inexplicable

as why the dead body

keeps breathing.

I'd never done

a death scene before.

And as I'm laying there,

supposedly dead

underneath this thing,

they go on to this two,

two-and-a-half minute scene

of dialogue

going back and forth.

GATES: With poor Ike holding

his breath the whole time.

All of a sudden I thought,

"I can't do this anymore!"

And I'm going... [GASPING]

GATES: Luckily,

they called cut

before he passed out.

And I had to check

with Nick and say,

"Okay, were you able

to make it through that

"without seeing me breathe?"

He said, "Of course

I saw you breathe.

"It was like a two-and-a-half,

three-minute scene.

"Nobody holds their breath

for that long.

"Don't worry about it.

I'm gonna cut it away."

GATES:

While the new cast members

appeared to take

the setbacks in stride,

not all egos could be managed.

Off set,

there were problems, too,

where a brooding

Gene Roddenberry

saw his vision of Star Trek

being forgotten.

So he was always pushing back

against things

that he felt weren't

true to Star Trek

and true to the characters

that he'd created.

GERROLD: Harve was

extremely polite to Gene,

and Gene was extremely

polite to Harve Bennett.

GATES: At least publicly.

Gene didn't have

any kind things to say

about Harve Bennett in private.

He continued to sound off.

GATES: Harve was careful

not to upset Gene

or his legions of followers.

If the two of them

had been any more polite,

there would have been

blood on the floor.

GATES: But Gene's meddling

had already created a monster

Harve Bennett

couldn't possibly control.

The leak about Spock's fate

had fans in open revolt.

And the Spock death rumors

were out there,

and they were gonna

boycott the movie

and boycott the merchandise,

and were

professional marketers

who had done a professional

marketing campaign

and were spewing statistics

and numbers and dollar amounts.

GATES: And the clamor

was spilling onto the set.

I was shocked that

I was holding in my hand

a copy of something

that was going to be

hugely disappointing

to the massive fanbase.

MEYER: People said,

"Oh, you can't k*ll Spock."

And I said,

"Yeah, you can k*ll him.

"The only question is

whether you k*ll him well."

GATES: With fans

threatening a boycott

over rumors

of Spock's demise,

Paramount was

in an impossible situation.

The bottom line was,

he wanted out.

They only got him

in the movie

promising them

a big death scene.

GATES: Star Trek was

caught in a conundrum

entirely of its creator's

own making.

The only question is

whether you k*ll him well.

GATES: Without

the element of surprise,

some ingenious sleight

of hand was required.

You have this scene

where it turns out

the Kobayashi Maru

is a simulation.

Captain.

GERROLD: Put that

at the beginning,

let the audience see

that Spock dies,

they'll say, "Oh, that's

what this was all about."

then you can catch

them by surprise

at the end of the picture.

- Aren't you dead?

- [ELEVATOR DINGS]

It's all just kind of

a setup to throw us.

GATES: But when it

came to euthanizing

his own character,

Leonard Nimoy was

suddenly uneasy.

That was a major, major,

difficult moment for me.

Very difficult.

I think he was having sort of

jittery feelings about,

"Do I really want

to end this after all?"

NEMECEK: This was a big moment.

big enough so that

the minute they do it,

Leonard Nimoy starts

having second thoughts.

And I began to be concerned

that maybe I'd made a mistake.

Then he was feeling

very sort of jittery

and testy

and nervous about it.

GATES: But Nimoy

had no qualms

about the manner

of Spock's demise.

Maybe it's fitting

that Spock should die,

saving the ship and the crew

and be a hero

and go out in a blaze of glory.

GATES: This was potentially

the most important

Star Trek scene ever.

And everyone knew it.

Well, almost everyone.

I didn't really understand

the significance

to so many people

of what was going on

while we were sh**ting

until I turn around

and see my...

cinematographer is crying.

The First AD is crying.

Don't grieve, Admiral.

The prop guy is crying.

The needs

of the many, outweigh...

...the needs of the few.

Or the one.

And I was just

making the movie.

Spock...

Bill and Leonard really

just nailed that.

I mean, they were

sobbing on the set.

I mean, they really

got into it.

NIMOY: I was always

very touched

by what happened in that...

in that sequence.

And it really works

in the film.

I have people still today

who write to me and say,

"Every time I still see

that picture for the fifth,

tenth time, I still cry."

GATES: It was

the perfect end for Spock,

performed to perfection,

except...

We had shot the scene

with no film in the camera.

[PRODUCER LAUGHING]

Are you kidding?

The first time it ever

happened to me

in thousands

and thousands of scenes.

This is a story about Kirk

coming to terms with himself.

Kirk begins by saying...

I don't believe

in the no-win scenario.

Until he's confronted by it.

It's a story about a man

who ultimately

realizes his fallibility

and perhaps

accepts his humanity.

Death is the no win scenario.

GATES: But Paramount

did not accept that.

The studio and producers

had an idea,

a highly controversial one.

And I and Harve, too,

were very strong

about the fact that

we needed to plant

in the audience's minds

the "maybe" idea.

Harve came to me on the set

and he said,

"What can you give us

"that might be

a thread for the future

"for Spock or Star Trek?"

Just in case.

And it took me a moment.

I said, "I can do a mind meld

on DeForest Kelley

"who's laying

there unconscious."

I'm sorry, Doctor.

I have no time

to discuss this logically.

And I can say

something ambiguous, like...

SPOCK: Remember.

He said, "Okay, do that."

This guy, this is a producer.

[LAUGHING]

GATES: This touch of

Vulcan logic from the producers

made Spock proud.

But for the director,

they had lost

the human emotion.

Oh, I hated it.

Nick was adamant.

I fought it tooth and nail.

We twist these people's

feelings into knots

and then we say,

"Oh, just kidding?"

GATES: Nonetheless,

the door was left open

for Spock.

And they decided

they need a button

on the end of the movie

showing the casket,

wherever it landed.

GATES: One way or another,

Spock would live on.

But not everyone

was happy about it.

They k*lled Spock.

They should've left him dead.

As hard as that is,

part of the reason

why that film works

is because of the emotional

impact of Spock's death.

And then at the very end

they give you

the shot of the coffin

that kind of winks at you

and says,

actually, he's gonna be back.

And it kind of takes

some of that away.

That said,

it's a small quibble

in what is really the best

of the Star Trek films.

Bye, buddy. Thank you.

GATES: Paramount couldn't

have been happier.

And when sh**ting wrapped

on January 29th, 1982,

Bob, Harve and Nick

delivered a film on schedule.

And we came in on budget.

While Nicholas never got

his say on Spock's immortality,

he had at least pulled off

his own little mind meld,

winning back the faith

of his producer.

It was a hard thing

to pull off,

and we couldn't have

done it without him.

GATES: Star Trek:

The Wrath of Khan

premiered in 1982.

The first time I realized

it was gonna be a big thing,

honestly, was when

the premiere was at

Grauman's Chinese Theater,

walking in and seeing

a bajillion photographers.

I hadn't really ever

seen that before.

GATES: What happened

during the screening

really took her by surprise.

The audience just

kind of went wild.

This was the best Star Trek

that I've ever seen before.

GATES: The death of Spock

had breathed new life

into the franchise,

ninety-five million

dollars' worth.

- I loved it.

- It was awesome.

I hated part of the ending,

but I understand that

that will be remedied

in the next one, right?

Star Trek III is a possibility.

I think it's

a distinct possibility.

When we did Star Trek Il,

up until the very final parts,

it was a standalone film.

GATES: Standalone or not,

Paramount now had



to bring Spock back.

I'm looking forward

to discussing

as soon as possible

the next Star Trek

motion picture

and my involvement with it.

And the movie was

such a huge hit,

that they came back

to Nimoy and said,

"What would it take

to get you to come back

and do another one?"

And I said

I would like to direct it.

To my surprise,

they didn't throw me

out of the office.

GATES: For a would be

first time director,

Nimoy had a Vulcan's

cool confidence.

When we made Star Trek II,

Nicholas Meyer was directing.

I thought,

"I can do what he does."

GATES: It seemed like

a match made in heaven.

But this was a director

arriving with serious baggage.

Certain people might have

been a little worried

about Leonard's directing.

Everybody was like,

[UNDER HER BREATH] "Okay."

GATES: Studio head

Michael Eisner wanted Spock

in front of the camera,

not behind it.

He said, "I can't have

you direct this movie."

I said, "Why, Michael?"

He said, "You hate Star Trek.

"You insisted on

the Spock character

"being k*lled in Star Trek II.

"You had it in your contract

that Spock had to die.

"I can't have your directing

a Star Trek movie."

I said, "Mike, this is

really crazy.

"I don't hate Star Trek.

"It was not in my contract."

And I said, "The contract

is in a file

"in the building

that you're in.

"Somebody's giving you

bad information.

"Take a look at it

and see if you can find

"anything like that

in the contract.

"It's not there.

It's not true."

GATES: Whatever was

in that contract,

Eisner came back

offering Nimoy a new one,

as a director.

And he said,

"Okay, let's make a deal."

And we immediately

made a deal and went to work.

GATES: With Spock

returning in some form,

Paramount had gained

one Vulcan,

only to lose another

after an unhappy experience

on The Wrath of Khan.

She didn't seem to be

very comfortable about it.

GATES: Kirstie Alley

would not be returning.

One day she came

to my dressing room

and she was in absolute tears.

All of a sudden,

she said to me,

"You know what?

"If this is what

Hollywood is like,

"I don't think I want

anything to do with it.

"I think I'm done."

GATES: When invited

to reprise her role

as Lt. Saavik,

the actress' eye-watering

asking price

sent a clear message

to Paramount.

That's 100% percent false.

The thing that's

always bothered me

was the fans thought

I was too good

to do Star Trek III.

And so I said, "I don't want

to do Star Trek III,"

which was 100% false.

GATES: She says it was

the other way around.

They offered me less money

for Star Trek III

than Star Trek II,

and I've done

quite a bit of work

in between those two things.

GATES: And the rising star

had no choice

but to politely pass.

It wasn't me just going,

"I'm too good be in Star Trek III."

GATES: So with

Kirstie Alley stepping aside,

Robin was introduced

to Saavik.

And I was tickled pink,

you know,

to come in

and take over the role.

GATES: Robin relaxed

into the character,

safe in the knowledge

that her director

was the world authority

on all things Vulcan.

What more expert hands

to be in then Leonard Nimoy

to be directed

to play a Vulcan?

He said, "Vulcans have



behind the eyes."

How many have paid the price

for your impatience?

He had this lovely way

of gently kind of

guiding me, you know,

to whatever moment it was

that Saavik was having.

GATES: But even



wouldn't help Robin work out

how to negotiate

Vulcan romance.

God, I remember the day

Stephen Manly and I were all...

All a flutter,

wondering, "Okay,

"what is Vulcan foreplay

going to be?"

GATES:

Stephen Manly portrayed

a hormone-addled

teenage Spock.

CURTIS: Because the scene

on the page definitely read

that Spock and Saavik

are about to have

this important moment.

GATES: This was the ritual

mating of the Vulcan.

Pon farr.

Oh, my God,

what is this gonna be?

You know,

what parts of our bodies

are gonna be interacting?

GATES: Luckily for them,

the director was quite familiar

with Vulcan biology.

And Leonard Nimoy took us

very gently aside,

very quiet part

of the sound stage.

And he took our hands

and he formed them like this.

And he said,

"You're just going to gently

stroke each other like this."

GATES: Although it was

a bit demure,

it showed just enough

to preserve a little...

Vulcan mystique.

My Lord, the ship appears

to be deserted.

How can that be?

GATES: The Klingons

may not have been known

for their mystique.

- Oh, yeah.

- [LAUGHTER]

But with Taxi's

Christopher Lloyd

having swapped

his furrowed brow

for a Klingon forehead,

they had some star power

in their ranks.

Chris Lloyd was

well known for comedy.

But he was also wonderful

in the movie

called One Flew Over

the Cuckoo's Nest.

Why don't you knock off

the...and get to the point?

Terrific actor.

He's like a chameleon.

Charming.

GATES: Star Trek III

also saw the return

of the previously

undiscovered composer.

James Horner was out there

with a 102-piece orchestra

at Paramount.

And what a blast that was

to sit there,

see the sequence

everyone at ILM

had put so much

sweat and tears in.

And then there's this



boom, backing it up.

[ORCHESTRAL MUSIC PLAYING]

Nothing like it.

GATES: Music or not,

one scene would be

particularly dramatic.

We thought, "Well, let's create

a great death scene

"like a great actor would do."

GATES: Perhaps

even more traumatic

than the death of Spock,

especially for Gene,

was the demise

of the Enterprise itself.

So that's a character.

Audiences love the Enterprise.

That's their home

away from home.

That's the premise.

You know, it's not me

and my friends,

these are the voyages

of the Starship Enterprise.

And you're gonna blow it up?

GATES: But if the ship

was going to go down,

it was going to go down

in a blaze of glory,

thanks to some ILM magic.

When we got to

the final blow up,

at the last second,

I remember,

"Hey, give me

some talcum powder."

And I just sprinkled it

on top of the ship.

So when it goes off,

you can see it

in the movie, too,

this interesting sort of

fine stuff comes up...

which added to the scale of it.

GATES: And made

the whole thing really,

really fun to blow up.

I personally am very hurt

by the destruction

of the Enterprise.

I feel that more deeply

than I did the death of Spock.

And he wasn't the only one.

The movie was coming out.

I made a point of saying,

"Well, I finally got to blow up

that Enterprise ship.

"It's such a pain to sh**t."

And I got, like, death threats.

GATES: Welcome to the club.

I was like, "Whoa!

Okay, no more jokes."

GATES: Whatever fans

thought of this,

they loved the film.

Star Trek: The Search for Spock

raked in

a cool 87 million dollars,

essentially guaranteeing

another outing.

I think this is really

the best Star Trek yet.

Leonard Nimoy has turned in,

I think, a magnificent job.

At that point in time

it felt like the original cast

was still gonna keep

doing some features.

GATES: Even if Kirk and Crew

would need a new ride.

Jeff Katzenberg

tells Leonard Nimoy,

"We want you

to make Star Trek IV."

GATES:

Leonard quickly accepted.

But that's a tale

for another time.

[THEME MUSIC PLAYING]