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01x02 - Episode 2

Episode transcripts for the TV show, "Mind Over m*rder". Aired: June 20 – July 25, 2022.*
Watch/Buy Amazon


The series follows the complex story of the Beatrice Six, who were convicted in 1989 of the 1985 r*pe and m*rder of Helen Wilson.

01x02 - Episode 2

Post by bunniefuu »

[TV static drones]

[bright tone]

I sometimes imagine...

What my life
would have been like

if didn't go through this.

[dramatic music]

I know it's weird

to look back and think, "Well,

"what would you have been doing
at 25?

What would you have been doing
at 26?"

Instead of what
I was really doing.

When I was close to 18,

I worked
at Marshall's Truck Stop.

It was open 24 hours a day,

so we always got all
the drunks and stuff at night.

[bell jingles]

I met Cliff at the truck stop.

He was just strange,

but he was fascinating enough
to like him as a friend.

He always told
tons of stories.

Which, later on in life,
we pretty much found out

most of them weren't true.

I just wanted to be accepted.

So I just took
what came my way as friends.

[sighs]

We ended up getting ourselves

in trouble.

[suspenseful music]

[♪ ♪]

He brought up an idea
to drive downtown

to an adult bookstore.

He used to do something called
"roll a f*g."

You know what that means?

Well, it's where you go
to wherever a f*g hangs out,

and you roll them
for their money.

[♪ ♪]

Cliff walked me
through the whole process

of how to do it
and how to pretend

that you were interested
in a person.

If they see you walk
in the booth,

if they wanna come in
and join you in the booth,

they would run their foot
underneath the door,

and that would let you know
to let them in.

So this person came in,

and then he started touching.

I was supposed to draw
this person to an area

to where Cliff could come in

and rob him.

So I said, "I think I need
to meet up with my friend."

He says, "I'm gonna be working
at this place.

If you want to stop by later,
just let me know."

Course, we drank
a couple of things

to get a little more courage.

[♪ ♪]

I went in first.

I was just supposed to be
the decoy to draw him in,

and then Cliff was gonna
take over from there.

So I get in there, and I get
in the back with his guy,

and it's getting
really heavy fast.

Cliff came in.

He was just
supposed to hit him once,

and then the guy would,

I guess, be knocked out.

Well, this guy
didn't fall down.

And he just kept hitting him
and hitting him.

And I thought
for sure the guy was dead.

There was so much blood.

[siren wailing]

When we went in to jail,
they divided us.

I went into protective custody
because I was scared of Cliff.

They have you isolated
in a cell

all by yourself,

so you wanna get out
any chance you can.

Burt Searcey,
he came to the jail

and started asking questions.

And that was bad for me.

[dramatic music]

[♪ ♪]

[birds chirping]

Tom Winslow was under arrest

and in Lancaster County Jail.

[inquisitive music]

I felt like, wow, you know?

If this guy will do that,

I may be on to something.

I may be right.

So I packed up my goods,

and I went
to Lincoln, Nebraska.

I had Kent Harlan come down.
We set the camera up.

I was excited anytime
I got the opportunity to help

because I was getting to work
on something,

even if I wasn't asking
the questions.

Hopefully, I could run
the videotape right

'cause that was my job.

It was push play and sit
and babysit the camera.

That's pretty much what it was.

I was appointed to represent
Tom Winslow

in an as*ault case.

He was in jail for it

following his arrest
for the beating

of a Lincoln motel clerk.

And he wanted out.

And he decided

that if he could prove himself
to be a valuable witness

in this case in Beatrice,
they might let him go.

And that's when he decided
to talk

and make his statement.

I'd already talked
to Tom Winslow

in his apartment

way back in 1985.

And I said, "Tom, on the night
of February 5th,

"I have a witness
that seen you driving your car

"and parking it.

And JoAnn Taylor and
Joseph White was with you."

And when I said that to him,
he's like, "Whoa.

That wasn't me. I was working."

[ominous music]

[♪ ♪]

During the interview
with Mr. Winslow,

we knew
that he was holding back.

It was almost like
he was testing to see

what we knew.

And he wanted to give
one little piece at a time

not to implicate himself
any further

than he absolutely had to.

He was not telling me
the truth.

I knew it.
I stopped the interview.

[sighs]

His attorney
did give him counsel.

Tom Winslow thought the more
valuable he could make himself,

the better off
he was going to be,

deciding maybe he could talk
his way out of jail.

Believe me, if you try to talk
your way out of jail,

you'll talk your way
into the penitentiary.

My advice is always don't talk,

but if you insist on talking,
tell the truth.

We started
the interview up again,

and then he started
kinda telling

what I thought was the truth.

I was saying,

you know, this is dangerous,
what you're doing.

You're gonna make yourself
an accomplice,

or you're gonna be part
of a felony m*rder charge.

Something could happen.

But Winslow had his own agenda.

He had gone with them,
he'd provided the car,

he'd gone in,
he'd gone into the apartment.

He admitted
to being in the crime scene.

He admitted to seeing
Joseph White manhandling her.

I had no choice but to assume

that he was telling the truth.

I feel like
my heart's racing a lot.

I met Joe at the truck stop.

Joe and JoAnn were traveling.

And they came in.

[bell jingles]

And they were probably three
to four years older than me.

I'm in a small town.
They're in LA and Florida.

So when they tell wild stories
about these places,

it's interesting to a kid.

I didn't have
a lot of friends in school.

And I didn't do all the things
that normal guys did sometimes.

Joe was very accepting.
JoAnn was very accepting.

They had no place to stay,

and at that time,
I had an apartment.

So I let them move in with me
and stay there.

Sort of became a group
and hung out,

did most things together,
like go to bars and stuff.

And then you get drunk,
and then it's not good.

[heavy metal music playing]

[♪ ♪]

My mom and dad used to get
mad at me, though.

They used to tell me
they were nothing but trouble.

I was gonna get in trouble if
I stayed hanging out with them.

But of course, as a kid,
if your parents tell you

you can't hang out with
somebody, what are you gonna do?

You're gonna hang out
with that person more.

I...

I don't know.

It... it was a snowball effect,

which ended up...

A very bad situation to where
it should've never went

anyway near where it went.

[suspenseful music]

Gage County judge
Steven B. Timm

issued warrants for the arrest

of Ada JoAnn Taylor
and Joseph Edgar White

for the felony m*rder
of Helen L. Wilson.


Thomas Winslow's information

played an important part
in the arrests

of 25-year-old
Ada JoAnn Taylor

and 26-year-old
Joseph Edgar White.

I found JoAnn Taylor

in Buncombe County,
North Carolina.

And Joseph White was living

outside of Cullman, Alabama.

I Mirandized him.

I asked for blood, hair sample.

Joseph White, to me,
appeared to be

a simple, non-caring guy.

He liked the low life.

He went hobnobbing,
jumping from this little thing

to that little thing.

Ended up in California.

Got involved in doing
porn star stuff.

[simmering banjo music]

He was quiet.
Kinda kept to himself.

Didn't need to tell you
anything,

didn't need to prove
anything to you.

Almost cold. Just cold.

I think we interviewed him

maybe for approximately
an hour.

He denied everything.

Said he didn't know her,

said he didn't have
any contact with her.

He wasn't there.

He just wasn't gonna talk
to me.

You know, if you want me,
you gotta get me.

[♪ ♪]

People always say,
"How can you represent

somebody that's charged
with a crime?"

Particularly in serious crimes

like sexual as*ault or m*rder,

and people
don't understand that...

you're defending the defendant,
of course,

but what you're really doing

is defending
the constitutional rights

of the defendant.

Joe White had a sordid past,
but, you know,


have sordid pasts,

so that was no big deal.

[suspenseful music]

The only thing
I remember Joe saying

is that every time
the issue came up

is that he didn't do it.

You present him with evidence,

Joe just said,
"Hey, I didn't do it."

I expected him
not to admit to anything.

It didn't surprise me.

Strategy with him then
is, okay,

if I asked you questions and
you don't wanna answer them,

then I'm gonna have to go,

and I'm gonna have to do
a lot of footwork

to get the answer
that you ain't gonna tell me.

I knew JoAnn Taylor.

She was a young lady

that was always in or about
or around a area

when something was going on.

We started interviewing her

and going over the fact if she
knew anything about the case,

and she was awful nervous
but willing to talk.

[♪ ♪]

When you're talking to
someone and interviewing them,

sometimes they'll give you
parts of the story

that are true,
and other parts aren't.

JoAnn Taylor
was obviously a woman

with serious
psychological problems.

Her background is horrific.

She was r*ped the first time
when she was nine years old.

Then she was married
when she was 14 years old.

She came to Beatrice
with Joseph White in 1984.

Didn't live in Beatrice
very long.

Even though she had a lot
of experience with Beatrice

while she was here.

I'm reviewing
some police reports.

October 22nd of 1984,

Mark Goods on claims that JoAnn
tried to strangle him.

He advised that the people
who came with her

was Joseph White
and Clifford Shelden.

There's another report.

It says that JoAnn
had stolen a watch at Kmart.

Lisa Podendorf stated that
a Medana-brand wristwatch

was stolen on or about 12:23
of '82 by JoAnn Taylor.

January 1st of 1985,

a Charlotte Mendenhall
had been beaten

by JoAnn Taylor.

These reports suggest

that JoAnn is a violent person.

The kind of person
that might commit

a violent act.

In addition, she gave enormous
detail about what happened.

She implicated herself
and Joseph White.

She had another man,

but she couldn't remember
the name.

[tense music]

[♪ ♪]

I then made a photo lineup.

Of course,
I put the subject in there

that I felt might be
the individual

due to her description of him.

I set it down in front of her

and told her I wanted her
to look at the photos.

She pointed out Tom Winslow.

[♪ ♪]

Preliminary hearings
were set for April 13th

for three people charged
with first-degree m*rder

in the slaying
of a Beatrice woman

more than four years ago.


of Cullman, Alabama;


of Asheville, North Carolina;

And 23-year-old Thomas Winslow
of Wymore

are all being held without
bond in the county jail.

I'm Marshall Tuttle,

and I'm reading
for Tom Winslow.

The first time I got married,
I was 18 years old.

It didn't last very long.

We separated
after seven months.

That was a difficult time.

I thought a lot about suicide.

I guess I've always been
a nervous, insecure person.

Drinking helped me
with the emotional pain,

but I would get blackouts.

He had found himself

with a bad group,

but he still felt like he would
do anything for them.

So this is a coat chosen
for JoAnn Taylor.

Mainly because
it's kind of loud and bold

and in your face.

And I feel like
that's very much

JoAnn Taylor's character.

I knew JoAnn Taylor

because my brother
actually dated her

for a short period of time

the year before the m*rder,

and it only lasted a few weeks

because she,

at one point, gave him
a very expensive watch,

and my mom knew
that she was not well off

enough to afford this watch,
and she thought it was stolen.

And she told him,
"You need to give that back

"to her because
that is too nice of a gift

"for a high school boy to be
given to by his girlfriend."

She actually had
a baby girl here,

and that baby was removed

due to allegations
of child neglect.

And then she ended up
going out to California,

and that's
where she met Joseph White.

Josh Erikson.

I'm reading
for Joseph White's part.

I wound up in LA
where I thought the action was.

I did some nude modeling
out there

under the name
of Lone Wolf Bronson.

And they started calling me
Lobo.

I have a wolf tattoo
on my back.

The wolf
is my favorite creature.

He's a survivor.

[♪ ♪]

Joseph White,
during our interviews,

I had learned
by more than one person,

he liked to do
a trick with money.

In the crime scene,
there was a $5 bill

laying on the floor.

At least there was a reason

why that half a $5 bill
might be laying there.

During their
initial investigation

of the crime scene,

they were able to extract
the blood.

Joseph White, Tom Winslow,
and JoAnn Taylor,

according
to the serologist reports,

none of them were type B.

Blood, it's only a part.

You're looking
for those blood samples,

but they are not necessarily

the key to the door.

We had all these statements.

We had all the evidence.

You gotta remember,
everything that happened,

I had to be able to answer for.

At that point in time,

I'm thinking,
"You need to dig into this.

You need to get more
information than you got."

I was 22 when I started
at the sheriff's office.

At that time, we were hired
as dispatchers and jailers.

We also did the dictation.

They would do a statement.
They would record it.

We'd type it out.

When this investigation
was going on,

we were typing nonstop.

[typewriter clacking]

I started
trying to find out

who was affiliated
with these people

and may have been involved.

When I talked to someone
and a name came up,

I'd talk to that person.

If I talked to them
and another name come up,

I'd talk to that person.

Beth Johnson was married
to Tom Winslow,

so I went to her.

Mark Goods on
was another one.

His name had come up
in some of the conversations.

Every one of them
had some reputation.

There was a lot
of bunny hopping.

You try to gather
what you can

from different people,

and you take that information
and you further it

with something else,
and you just proceed on.

A good case,
you can tell a story

from A to B.

If you don't talk to everybody,
you can't get all the answers,

and you won't complete
your story.

Mm-hmm.

Here we go.

Yeah, pretty much.

I got along with everybody,
I mean...

Didn't get mad at anybody,

didn't have...
Hopefully didn't have

nobody hating me
or anything like that, but...

I was at a truck stop.

[rain pattering]

[♪ ♪]

It was raining that night.

I was on a motorcycle
at that time.

[bell jingles]

And I really didn't wanna
ride in the rain,

so he offered to put me up
for the night.

And I guess we became friends.

He introduced me
to his friends...

Joseph White and JoAnn Taylor.

All we did was just hang out.

Good times, yeah.

No, I never dated that...
Excuse my language... woman.

Never did.

Yeah, I knew her,
but I never dated her.

Excuse the phrase, but there's
plenty of fish in the sea.

I mean, she wasn't my type. No.

Debbie's my type.

[contemplative music]

[♪ ♪]

[sighs] I met Cliff

through a girl
that I knew at school.

I dressed funny.
I had plaid clothes on.

My hair was cut like a boy's.

She had a short haircut.

Oh, T-shirts and plaid pants.

[chuckles]
I said, "Well,

"you know,

I'm always open-minded to..."

"New things."

He always was nice to me.

He never called me fat
or nothing.

He was always respectable.

I fell in love with him, yeah.

I love her to death.

There's nothing... nothing
I wouldn't do for her.

He proposed.

She proposed to me first.

I moved in with him,
and we got married

April of '85.

[chuckles]
It was quite an ordeal.

Tom Winslow was our witness.

We got married
in front of a judge.

I said "I do" twice.
[laughs]

JoAnn didn't like me...

Because I took Cliff
away from her.

So she went and stabbed him.

That's when she ran
to the kitchen

and stabbed me in my arm.

And that's all because of me.

I met them all through Cliff,

the ones that I got
in trouble with, actually.

[laughs]

But I didn't... I don't wanna
even think about this.

I got arrested with Tom
in October of '88.

I think it was about
three months after that

that I realized that I was
gonna be gone for a long time.

[suspenseful music]

[♪ ♪]

I got a phone call
and was told Clifford Shelden

wants to talk
about the Helen Wilson case.

And so I did
an interview with him

at the Lancaster County Jail.

At that moment,
I was thinking,

who can you trust?

And at that time, I thought,

nobody but myself.

Yeah.

He said
he was in the hospital

during the night
of the homicide,

and I confirmed that
with the hospital.

But then he started talking.

Well, apparently,
they were looking for a woman

that was involved
in this m*rder.

They described her to me.

They said that she had
black hair, glasses,

little older, heavyset.

I said, "Well, yeah,
that sounds like my wife."

He said, "I think
she might be involved."

And I said,

"Wow.

He's implicated his wife?"

The sheriff picked me up
at home.

They drove me down
to Lincoln jail,

and then all of a sudden,
I was arrested.

[♪ ♪]

We proceeded
to interview her,

and she was very explicit
and detailed.

Debra Shelden was related
to my grandmother,

I don't know, great-niece
or second cousin or something.

My grandma had a chain
on her door

that was always on her door.

She never took that chain off
except for to let somebody in.

She let them in.

If it was a cold night
outside and stuff,

yeah, she would've let her in

'cause she knew her.

When Helen Wilson
answered the door,

she seen Debbie,

recognized her, said hi.

Joseph White, JoAnn Taylor,

and everybody pushed
through the door,

knocking her backwards
and entering the house.

I told him
everything that happened,

that I saw her getting r*ped
and everything,

and who done it.

I told him Tom Winslow
and Joseph White.

I told him that JoAnn Taylor,

she put the pillow
over her face.

I never worked on a case

where someone laid it out
black and white like that

for me ever.

Big-time.

It's like she wanted
to get it off her chest.

Debbie said, "I was there,

"JoAnn Taylor was there,

"Tom Winslow was there,

"Joseph White was there...

and another guy."

James Dean.

I said,
"I talked to you before,

"and you never mentioned this.

Why?"

"Well, I had forgot.

But he was there."

[♪ ♪]

sh*t, that's 35 years ago.
I don't remember.

I can't remember
what happened yesterday,

let alone what happened


Well, I just remember
bits and pieces.

[heavy metal music playing]

I can tell you that

at that time,
we were all friends.

Deb Shelden, Cliff Shelden,

Thomas Winslow, Joseph White,
JoAnn Taylor.

We would run around and just
raised a little hell.

You know,
got in a little trouble

with, you know, like,
disturbing the peace,

stuff like that.

But when you first meet people

and you're around them
for a little while,

you don't know
what they're capable of.

My name wasn't even brought up
in this whole thing

until Deb Shelden was arrested.

I got arrested on my birthday
in '89.

We were gonna have
a birthday party for me.

And...

I'm the only one
that didn't show up.

[laughs]

Cops came from everywhere.

Burdette Searcey was the one
doing most of the talking.

He told me to hold my hands up.

I called them all assholes,
straight up.

You know, I mean, it's this...

I mean, if you come at me
with an as*h*le demeanor,

I'm gonna come back at you
with an as*h*le demeanor.

[suspenseful music]

[♪ ♪]

James Dean was

a difficult person
to interview.

Really got very little,
if nothing, out of him.

He was just hard to deal with.

I think Mr. Schmeling was
struggling dealing with him.

My initial impression
of James

was that he was not...

particularly intelligent.

I went through my drill

that I go through
with all the criminal clients.

"James, if you did this,
you need to tell me.

"It's confidential.
I won't tell anybody else.

"But it'll be helpful to me

"to know
whether you were involved

in this case or not."

I kept telling him,
"Well, just tell them

to put me
on a lie detector test."

I said,
"I'll prove I didn't do this."

You know, no harm, no foul.

I'm gonna believe my client
up until the point in time

where I have
some fairly good, solid facts

that cause me
to disbelieve him.

The county attorney
Richard Smith

agreed to have James Dean

undergo
a polygraph examination.

It would have been
an easy slam dunk

if he'd passed the polygraph.

But after I had reviewed
the report,

I was disappointed

that James had not passed
the test cleanly.

They said,
"Well, you failed miserably."

And, yeah, that didn't go good.

[♪ ♪]

And they said, "You need
to tell us what happened.

That way, we can keep you
out of the electric chair."

James was not
a model prisoner.

James Dean, he was needy.

He kept the jail staff
pretty hopping,

and I think
he liked to do that.

He wanted attention
from the jail staff,

from whomever.

He'd be yelling and cussing.

It was to the point

where you didn't even want
to go back there

'cause he was so obnoxious.

At some point in time,

I got a phone call
from the jail

saying that they're having
a lot of problems

with James Dean.

Would it be okay for Doc Price
to go over there

and kind of calm him down?

And I said yes.

Dr. Wayne Price
donated many years

to the Beatrice
Police Department

and the Gage County
Sheriff's Department

as our department's
psychologist.

Pretty much anything
that dealt

with mental health issues,
Dr. Price was involved in.

Not there to tell us
what to do

but maybe tell us why things
are the way they are.

He made sure that we knew
we were on the right track.

If you personally thought

that somebody
was going downhill

or was struggling
with something,

Dr. Price, he could deescalate
a situation.

Mr. Dean was
a very agitated, very loud,

noncompliant inmate.

He was yelling, screaming,
crying,

refusing orders
of a correction officer.

This went on periodically.

Sometimes the sheriff
would call Price

and have Price come over
in the evening and talk to him.

I defused Mr. Dean
several times in the jail

when he had gotten
in a panicked state,

and we would talk
for maybe five to ten minutes.

And I said if he'd just relax,
he'd feel better,

he'd settle down,
and I'd leave.

At this point in time,

we still had James saying,
"No, no, I wasn't there."

And then one day,
he called my office.

He says,
"You gotta come down."

He says,
"I just remembered something,

and I think it's important."

[♪ ♪]

He says, "I remember
how we were all standing

at the door when JoAnn Taylor
knocked on the door."

I said, "Oh? You were there?"

"Yeah, I was."

[knocking]

At that point,
I made the statement

about what was done
and how it was done

and why it was done and...
[chuckles]

All that good stuff, so...

[♪ ♪]

I conducted another
interview of James Dean.

James Dean said he was there.

He didn't get involved,

but he didn't know what to do.

He'd become paranoid.

He went to the building's
electrical box

and pulled the fuses.

And we knew that.

We knew in the crime scene,
there was specific things

that had to have answers to.

Someone pulled the lights out.

James Dean didn't only
implicate himself

but also came up

with another person
directly involved

in the Helen Wilson homicide.

And her name
was Kathy Gonzalez.

Her apartment
was directly above

Helen Wilson's apartment,

and she was acquaintances
with Joseph White.

I found out Kathy Gonzalez,
while they were rassling

with Helen Wilson,
got kicked in the nose,

and she got a bloody nose.

Debbie Shelden
noticed Kathy Gonzalez

had a bloody nose
and a washcloth

trying to stop the bleeding.

Also, there was a bloody bra

that was found in the dumpster

outside
of the apartment building.

Kathy Gonzalez
said it was hers.

She had throwed it
in the dumpster.

The initial investigation
conducted by the police

say we're looking for B blood.

Kathy Gonzalez had B blood.

Pretty good information.

Pretty good evidence.

So it all kinda is gathered in,

and it's piecing together.

[♪ ♪]

Okay, here we go.
Everybody does it together.

Here we go. Tossing it to Josh.

Josh to Grant.

Grant to Mason.

And hands and knees.

And stop. Okay, that's it.

Grab a chair.
Let's make a circle.

So we gotta
pass out scripts, then.

This is the material
we've put together so far.

Assiduously,
it's tried to be something

that actually comes
from the public record.

But it also needs to come
from all of you.

Theater is not reality.

It is distilled life,

and sometimes what's distilled

is actually able
to penetrate in ways

that the chaos of life cannot.

- Yes!
- Hear, hear.

We're gonna do an exercise

looking
at the interrogation scenes.

No right or wrong,
but just talk to each other.

[chair thuds]

Tom.

You volunteered to speak to me,
right?

- Yeah.
- Have we ever spoken before?

- Few times.
- And what happened then?

Okay, I lied.

I said I had
nothing to do with it.

I wasn't there.

Okay, now, what exactly
did you lie about?

Scene seven,
Joe White's interrogation.

Did you ever go
to Helen Wilson's apartment?

I already explained to you,

I didn't know her.

And I did not even go
to that building

except the couple of nights
that I stayed with a girl

named Kathy Gonzalez.

Scene six,
JoAnn Taylor's interrogation.

JoAnn, how is it that you can
remember some things

but not others?

It's the way my mind is.

It's, like, f*cked up,
literally.

My psychologist Dr. Price
will tell you.

Nice, freeze.

Anybody have any reactions
or thoughts?

I was trying really hard to,
like, try to do justice

to maybe what
their perspectives were,

and it was really hard for me.

But I think it was
a really cool exercise to do.

It definitely lays bare
our preconceptions

- about a lot of these people.
- Mm-hmm.

Which, like, for me

is kinda the meaning
of the whole project

is that this story
is, at this point,

constructed of a lot different
little subjective truths.

You gotta remember,
it's a true story.

It's not gonna be like
regular theater that we do

where in the end,
there's laughing, dancing,

songs, and smiles,

because it's not gonna end
that way.

[breathes deeply]

[♪ ♪]

At approximately 9:00
in the evening,

February 5, 1985,

Joseph White, JoAnn Taylor,

James Dean, Debbie Shelden,

and Tom Winslow

were driven
to the apartment building

where Helen Wilson resided.

They parked behind
the apartment building...

And entered through
what is the east door.

They knocked on the door.

Helen Wilson
recognized Debbie.

She opened the door,

and at that time, everybody
pushed through the door,

knocking her backwards.

She was shoved

into her bedroom
by Joseph White.

Tom went in to assist.

At that point in time,

James Dean got scared.

He run outside
the apartment building.

Kathy Gonzalez
tried to help

and was knocked backwards.

But she never did call
the police.

Ultimately, Helen Wilson
was drug out of her bedroom.

She was sexually assaulted
by Joseph White

and Tom Winslow.

At some point, Helen Wilson

quit struggling and was not
fighting anymore.

[♪ ♪]

I worked this case.

I know the facts.

I dealt with these people.

They're guilty.

When you are talking
to all these people,

you know
they're telling the truth,

when they're all telling you
the same thing,

you corroborate it
with your other information.

Independent corroborative
testimony.

That's what the whole case
hinges on.

That's a point.

[somber piano music]

[♪ ♪]

I remember being
in the cell,

feeling helpless.

They would say,

"You might as well

"tell the truth now,
because we already have

"this person's statement,
this person's statement,

"and they all told exactly

what you did
and how you did it."

[♪ ♪]

If I could go back...

I think I would've kept
my mouth shut.

[bright tone]