tender piano music
[Orna VO] The ways that
people struggle with monogamy
are not 100 percent resolvable.
It just feels like I'm
being f*cking suppressed!
- I want all this to myself.
- [Orna] Mm-hm.
So monogamy to me
is, yes, I want Sean.
I went on some dates,
I was a horrible...
husband,
but I also felt
incredibly powerful.
[Orna VO] There's always this
internal conflict between the
need for safety
and predictability
and the need for
newness and adventure.
Now I'm having sex
with somebody else,
and then it felt like,
"Okay, well, you're
having sex with them,
so you need to be
having sex with me."
[Orna VO] That is not
a resolvable conflict.
It's a practice, it's not a
place that you arrive at.
[both laughing]
We came in here
thinking that this would...
Help us?
[both laugh]
- It did, it did.
- Hi!
[both]
[laughing] Hi!
[Christine VO] Ugh,
Orna, where to begin?!
- Um--
- At the end. [laughs]
At the end, yeah,
'cause this is the end.
Uh, we're taking turns
having our tantrums.
Today was my day.
I'm feeling sad,
I'm feeling jealous,
I'm feeling angry again.
And then lots of
other things going on,
like Israel's
bombing Gaza again,
so I'm going to a lot
of protests, and...
- feelings of helplessness--
- Yeah, right,
there's this insanity
that's going on again, yes.
[Christine] Right?
[voice wavering] So it's
hard for me to even, like,
focus on healing because
I'm focusing on this other
thing. [sniffles]
And then everything going
on with Ukraine as well.
[sniffles] So...
- there's a lot of emotions...
- [Orna] Mm-hm.
A lot of tension...
My body, like, cannot manage it!
I don't know what
it is, and I wish--
What do you mean you
don't know what it is?
- [Christine] I mean, I know--
- You do know what it is.
[Christine] But
I've gone to therapy!
- I journal!
- [laughs]
I take baths!
[both laugh]
Millennial logic
right here, yeah.
Okay...
[Christine] When is
this gonna go away?!
I can't live my
whole life like this!
And--
[Orna] And, first of
all, PTSD -- especially,
you know, major PTSD of, like,
being at w*r that also never
- ends...
- Yeah, yeah.
This is not just gonna go away.
- I mean...
- [Christine and Nadine laugh]
[Christine] It's really tiring.
And also, even -- I mean,
to address the elephant in the
- room, our dynamic--
- [Orna] Mm-hm.
As an Israeli Jew
with a Palestinian--
[Orna] Yeah.
In the midst of
the political, um...
made me a little bit anxious.
But I feel love in this space.
I feel like there is a real
shared experience here that is
- happening.
- Communion, yeah.
- Yeah, a communion.
- Mm-hm.
Do you wanna say more,
though, about that elephant?
Like, in terms of your concerns?
I'm scared that...
other Palestinians might
criticize me for placing myself
- in this position.
- [Orna] Even agreeing to this.
- Yeah.
- [Orna] Yeah.
Yeah, for agreeing to this.
However, you know, sometimes I
think when we look at things
from the collective level,
things that we do to bar people
from seeing each other -- like
a literal separation wall --
further perpetuates
the conflict--
- [Orna] Mm-hm.
- Because I have no c--
I have no opportunity to even
see that my "enemies" are just--
Not your enemies, yeah.
- Yeah, they're just people...
- [both laugh]
who are also trying to live,
who come from so much trauma as
well.
One way to think about it
is that we are relating
under the radar of how
we're supposed to relate--
- [Christine] Hm.
- Which is as enemies.
- [Nadine] Ah.
- [Christine] Mm.
And how are you
imagining your...
future friendship?
[Nadine] Oh, I
love-- great question.
I feel like this is just the
beginning for our life and for
our relationship together, um,
as it transforms over time --
that's my hope. [sniffles]
Um...
so it would definitely be, like,
a big loss if that didn't take
place, but either way,
I support you.
Yeah. [sniffles]
I think-- we were
laughing, actually,
when you opened the door because
we came here thinking that this
would help us stay together.
[both laugh]
And even though
this sucks, of course,
like, when I take a
bird's-eye view of my life,
like, I came to
Brooklyn, I shaved my head,
I did a poly
relationship with a hottie...
[chuckles]
[Christine] It
broke my heart...
[both laugh]
- You know?
- [Orna] Mm-hm.
This is just, uh, another-- just
another chapter in the narrative
of our lives.
So some goodbyes
set us free, I think.
Mm.
In some ways, we-- and you
have also said this -- how we're
nearing the end of our nest,
[voice wavering] and we're both
jumping off.
And I've learned so much
and I've grown so much...
[sniffles]
- from being your partner.
- [whispering] Oh, same, baby.
So thank you for
creating that space.
[both sniffling]
- Um...
- How do you feel?
Yeah, can we ask you?
No.
[both laugh]
Why not?
Yes!
[Christine] How do you
feel about this process?
- [Nadine] Yeah, how do you feel?
- I'm really gonna miss you two.
- [Christine and Nadine] Aww.
- Really.
- You're gonna make me cry!
- Same, clearly. [laughs]
I'm like...
[mimics crying] "It was!"
[both laugh]
It's been very moving.
Moving to...
see how a
relationship can morph...
and not get kind of bound by
very particular ideas of what a
relationship is.
And, personally, it's been very
important for me to work with
- the two of you...
- [Nadine] Mm.
Both because of the...
Palestinian-Israeli,
the Lebanese-Israeli...
[Nadine] Mm, mm-hm.
I mean, it's all deeply
important to create this kind
of...
- possibility.
- Mm-hm.
I'm really grateful.
[Nadine] Mm.
- Thank you so much.
- Thank you.
With every cell in
my body, thank you.
Yeah.
[Nadine] 'Kay.
mellow synth music
- [Christine] Goodbye.
- Good luck.
[Christine] Thank you so much.
Bye.
[Orna VO] It was
very sad to see them go.
[Virginia VO] Yeah, of course!
But the thing that
I found poignant was
when Nadine was
able to realize...
that she wasn't
looking for polyamory;
that was a defense.
Yeah.
Nadine was protecting herself.
Mm-hm.
[Virginia] But she
couldn't see that.
[Orna VO] There's a big
difference between the type of
honesty people
exercise with each other
and the type of honesty
they exercise internally.
We all are motivated by
an endlessly-evolving and
changing unconscious.
You never get to a point where
you're honest with yourself and
you can just sit
there and relax.
There's always something
new that's gonna, like,
mess things up.
How are you two?
- [Sean] We're great!
- [Erica] Good!
- We actually had a conversation
- - it was kinda light --
about, you know, his employment
and how he feels about that,
but it was a very, you
know, extremely-vulnerable
conversation.
Vulnerable on both your sides?
[Erica] More so on Sean's.
You know, he was
basically saying,
"You know, these opportunities
are not coming as-- as I assumed
they would be."
He admitted that to me.
And what's changed?
We have a lot more
patience in our communication.
She's being honest about
her underlying issues,
and it's the same thing with me.
I recognize a lot of the things
that Erica triggers that are
- left over from my mom.
- [Orna] Mm-hm.
Or left over from
my first marriage.
[Orna] Mm-hm.
Just things that I
intentionally guard myself
against because of my
previous experiences in life.
Mm-hm.
But what would you say, Erica?
Are you noticing change?
Yeah, I feel like
it's been a lot better.
I think I'm being a
lot more thoughtful
in my, uh, use of language.
Mm-hm.
I think when you told me that
I was speaking to him like a
- punishment...
- [Orna] Mm-hm.
Or to influence, I...
I just thought I was just mad.
Mm-hm.
And so, um, in kind of
understanding that it's not more
so about me being mad,
it's some other resentments,
so we talked about
those resentments,
and...
it's definitely a real
dialogue that's being conducted.
That's great.
Going back to language, I heard
Sean saying something that I
resonate with in our
earlier sessions:
that you were talking
in a way that...
I guess wasn't-- you were not
using language to speak from
really a deep place inside you.
[Sean] Mm-hm.
[Erica] Can I say
something about that, Sean?
- So he was talking to his son
- - his oldest son --
and his son called him and said,
"Hey, Dad, what do you want
for your birthday?"
And I guess they had
been on the phone for, like,
two hours.
And he sent me this
text and he said,
"Is it so bad that I just wanna
say that I just wanted to be on
the phone with you
for the two hours?"
I was like, "That's so nice!"
[voice wavering] But he
didn't say that, though.
I said, "You
should've told him that!"
As far as a person tapping
into something, that's...
- Mm-hm.
- [Sean] Yeah!
- I mean--
- That's, like, huge for him!
I was like,
[whispering] "That's so nice!"
It sounds like the words that
are actually having the most
impact are when you say
something, indeed, vulnerable.
- I hear that.
- Yeah.
[Orna] That's where
you're having an impact.
Mm-hm.
Because the more you speak
from a very honest place,
the more I can see the two of
you just immediately connecting.
Mm-hm.
[Orna] And something
good starts happening.
And I guess that's
what I hear, and that's--
[Orna] Yeah, and that's what
moves you into the conversation.
Correct, correct.
That's a good...
way to frame what I think
the two of you need to be...
- pretty conscious of--
- Mm-hm.
[Orna] More conscious of.
Are you really
saying honest things?
Or are you...
- hurting or--
- Mm-hm.
- [Orna] Hiding or--
- Mm-hm.
Using words to not do
what they're supposed to do?
[Erica] Absolutely.
bright mellow music
[Orna] Okay, bye.
Thank you.
[Erica] Thank you
very much for everything.
After you, beautiful.
[Nuar] I feel like the progress
with them is incredible.
[Orna] I do too, yeah.
I think you've done
amazing work with them.
- [Kali] Mm-hm.
- Yeah.
- The group really helped.
- [Ken] Yeah.
[Nuar] How did it help?
I feel like you guys
would not let me go!
Like, you kept-- were,
like, trying to help me, like,
empathize with
him, and I was like...
- [groaning]
- [laughter]
[chuckling] "Leave me alone!
Stop!"
But I did kind of...
submit, and I went
back and looked for him.
- Mm-hm.
- And you found him!
- [Orna] Yeah.
- Yeah.
Which I actually
found quite, um,
- moving.
- [Eyal] Yeah.
- [Nuar] Me too.
- Very moving.
Yeah.
It was clear that there's,
like, a lot to still do --
like showing up in a more
real way with each other.
You know, I would imagine that
the next chapter for them is
what are they really bringing
to each other when they're truly
talking?
cool ethereal music
[sighs]
It's definitely
Central Park, though;
I'm just saying.
Just...
[Josh] You still
think it's Central Park?
[Natasha] It is Central Park.
I think this guy just ate
mad mushrooms and was like,
- "Lemme just..."
- I'm, like, squinting...
- "Just paint it."
- [laughs]
- Hi!
- Hi, how are you?
So, um, I was listening to a
podcast that I normally listen
to.
The actual episode
was about grief,
and so it wasn't about just
mourning people that you've lost
to, you know-- it was
about really also mourning
versions of yourself.
Mm-hm.
And I think the part that
really struck a chord with me
was, like, I've been
pushing away the f--
the act of grieving
my previous self.
- Like--
- Tell me.
Um...
when I was, like
growing up, like,
my family knew I was going to be
the one that was going to go to
- school.
- [Orna] Mm-hm.
Like, they knew
I-- they were like,
"Natasha's gonna
become something awesome,
she's going to...
be a lawyer or something..."
I-- I didn't want
to be a lawyer.
But they just had
big dreams for me,
- right?
- [Orna] Uh-huh.
[Natasha] And then, you know,
I had my daughter and my plans
- changed.
- Mm-hm.
And so, I-- I
never really, like,
sat with the fact that, like,
I had this plan for my life
and it went somewhere else, and,
like, while that's a blessing,
I still...
I felt like mourning that
previous life was somehow
disrespecting my...
current reality, right?
Like you couldn't
allow yourself to go there.
[Natasha] Yeah.
I feel like I'm stopping
myself from experiencing joy --
- [Orna] Mm-hm.
- In this relationship,
in my life -- because
I feel like I'm not...
"that girl."
You've failed
yourself in some way.
[Natasha] Some way, yeah.
- I feel like--
- [Orna] So you're waiting...
Yeah, to experience joy,
to find that fullness--
- [Orna] You're waiting for her.
- Yeah.
- I'm waiting to be her...
- [Orna] Mm-hm.
I'm waiting for her to show up.
Mm-hm.
And so I was, like, really
sitting with how it would relate
to, like, Josh,
because it's not just...
sex or intimacy, it's
really just, like...
I need to feel like I
deserve those things.
That's where I need to
be very intentional.
Mm-hm.
It's like, "How can I
accept myself today?"
- [laughs]
- [Orna] Mm-hm!
Mm-hm.
"How can I love on myself
a little bit more today?"
- [Orna] Mm-hm.
- [laughs]
- [Josh] I like that.
- [Natasha] Yeah.
You love yourself
better, I become better,
we become better.
- We love each other better.
- There we go, yes!
But, like, love in, like,
the raised-eyebrow way, too.
- Like, the wink way, too.
- Oh, okay!
- I'm down with that.
- See?
- Look at that.
- I'm in.
[Natasha and Orna laugh]
Cool.
[Orna] Uh-huh.
How's that landing with you?
[Josh] It's unbelievable
that she's doing that work.
That's, like, really
difficult work to do.
It also makes me sad,
because that's a
lot to carry around.
To walk around with the
burden of what you should be
means that you're constantly
walking around with the burden
- that you're not enough.
- [Orna] Mm-hm.
You know?
Anybody else you
come in contact with--
But maybe
something about, then,
when the two of you get
into this way that you feel
disappointed, it sits right...
- on that feeling.
- Absolutely, yeah.
Yeah.
I, um...
I've been
thinking a lot about...
what our relationship
looks like to our children.
- [Orna] Mm-hm.
- And...
being a good model for a
healthy relationship to them.
I just look at my son.
I think about him.
Every day, I look
at him and I think, like,
"I wanna make sure
you're f*cking good,
as best as I can."
But I also think, like...
I guess I do think of
my parents; like...
[softly] you know, I
just wanna be better.
[softly] Aww.
tender heartwarming music
[laughs]
[Josh VO] I want our children
to be the representation of
the meticulous effort we
put into our relationship,
and that at some
point in the future,
they say, "Our parents really
gave a f*ck about each other.
You know, and they love each
other and they worked towards
this, and this was
work that they did."
- Hey!
- Hi!
- Hello!
- [Kristi] How are you?
Hey, sweet pup!
[Brock and Kristi sigh]
- [softly] Hi.
- [Orna] Hi.
- [chuckles]
- [softly] Hi.
[Orna] How are you two?
[softly] Shitty.
[chuckles]
- [Orna] Mm-hm.
- [whispering] Yeah.
I've been worried with you.
[Kristi] [whispering] Yeah.
[softly] Last
session was really hard.
We, like...
[chuckles]
didn't see each other
for two days after that,
we just took space...
barely talked.
I felt a feeling that
I'd never felt before.
[sniffles]
I just, like...
like all my skin was
being sucked in towards me...
Mm-hm.
[Kristi] Collapsing
on the inside--
- Implosion.
- [Kristi] Like everything was
sucking in.
[sighs] And I just felt really
devastated and really defeated.
How about you?
I would say for
those couple of days,
I felt...
like...
just really empty.
Um, almost like shell shock.
It's like this weird feeling;
like, it's like I'm...
It's like when
I'm with her, like,
I'm with her but
I'm also, like...
hesitant to,
like, take her hand.
Like, taking her
hand is, like...
it's not natural anymore, it's
like something that I have to
tell my hand to do.
- Mm-hm.
- [Brock] You know?
It's a show that I'm--
I'm here and I'm in it,
when there's this
part of me that runs.
And so for me, like--
There's this part
of you that runs...?
That runs because I...
don't trust.
[Orna] Mm-hm.
And for you, Kristi?
Where were you in that
kind of implosion and...?
I felt like...
[exhales deeply]
one of the reasons why I was
so devastated last week...
[sniffles] is because
Brock handed out an ultimatum.
And he said, "Commit
to me in this way,
or else I won't
open my heart to you."
And I have resisted that
ultimatum for so long
because...
it violates my integrity.
So finally, I called
your bluff last week,
and I said, "Okay,
then we're open!"
And you were like,
"[scoffs] Oh, no,
but that's not what I want!"
- [Brock] [sighs]
- [sighs]
"Cruel" is the word.
[Orna] The cruelty is...?
The mind games.
Meaning trying to pressure
you to come Brock's way?
Yeah.
I mean, the way I understand
your-- this kind of impasse that
the two of you have
worked your way into here...
is the two of you either...
blowing up your marriage
because you need to do that,
because you managed to somehow
formulate your agenda so that it
absolutely makes it impossible
for the two of you to stay
together...
or you're just
polarizing and saying,
"I don't need
that, I need this,"
when, in fact, both
of you need both.
I don't know which one it is.
But I have watched you
kind of bring it to the--
gradually, gradually, gradually
bring it to the point of, like,
either/or.
Now, why would the
two of you do that?
The last session, I said,
like, it was about power.
[Orna] Mm-hm.
And I felt like
Kristi showed me
that she has the power
to forget about me...
- [Orna] Mm-hm.
- And do something.
Mm-hm.
[Brock] I mean, she, like,
knowingly really hurt me.
And so my stupid
solution to this was,
"Oh, well, I'll just go
out and have an affair,
and show you that I can, like...
I can hurt you
like you hurt me."
[Orna] Mm-hm.
[softly] And...
[voice wavering] like,
I realized that, like...
[sniffles]
[whispering] like, I-- I
realized that I have the
power...
like, to be the
monster but, like...
that, like, really
makes me sad that I could.
[sniffles]
Where are you, Kristi?
[sighs] [whispering]
There is so much happening.
[sniffles]
[exhales]
I just felt so alone.
[sighs] And I couldn't
talk to you about that.
You know, you wouldn't
hear anything from me.
[sniffles]
[sighs]
[whispering] It was just...
that was the worst
time of my life.
[sighs] I'm just...
- tired of hurting each other.
- [Brock] [whispering] Yeah.
I'm just really
f*cking tired of it.
And where does that
leave the two of you?
I mean, in my mind, that
means you have to work it out.
[Kristi] [whispering] Yeah.
I don't want,
like, pure fidelity.
Like, I don't want you to,
like, swear loyalty to me.
[sniffles]
It's about, like...
when I say, "This
is the worst thing,"
don't do it.
[sniffles]
So what would you say
to Brock on his...
question:
"Will you promise me not to
hurt me in that way again?"
Well, as long as
my phone is here,
I wrote something.
- [Orna] Mm-hm.
- [Kristi] [chuckles]
I wanna hear it.
[Kristi] I wrote
this last week.
After those hard couple of days.
[sniffles]
"I cannot promise you
protection from pain...
or the unknown,
or even myself.
I am unknown unto myself,
and untold pain has a way
of waiting for everyone
in spite of promises.
I cannot commit to your
freedom from suffering,
but I can commit to your care.
I will not rid our love of fear.
In fact, I guarantee a
love that is fearsome.
[voice wavering]
And when you tremble,
I will squeeze your hand...
and you will feel my
pulse against your palm.
And if I rupture
something between us,
I will do the slow
work of mending --
every minute, every day.
Brock, I love you.
You will be part
of my soul forever.
That is the one thing I
can promise without any
reservation."
[whispering] Thank you.
I love you too, Kis.
[exhales deeply]
[whispering] I don't
have anything written.
- [Kristi] That's okay.
- [chuckles]
delicate ambient music
[Orna VO] The best outcome of
couples therapy is being able to
see one another,
and then care for the
person you're seeing.
Care in the sense of, like,
wanting the other person to be
who they are,
and to love someone
despite their...
imperfections.
Time breathed slower
When we were younger
And now it's
racing so fast
It's lost its breath...
At many junctures, it would have
been easier for them to split.
I wonder if
the dogwoods
From our home in Georgia
Still stand tall
or if tornados
Blew them over...
They just keep going, going,
going towards each other and
trying to figure it out.
It's beautiful; that's love!
Oh, I remember how we...
But it's hard.
You always went silent
Where do you go?
Where do you go?
Where do you go?
Where do you go?
I wonder
Where do you go?
Where do you go?
Where do you go?
Where do you go?
Where do you go?
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