01x100 - Life in a Condemned Warehouse

[bunniefuu]

When you moved in there,

it didn't have any of the amenities?

No.

There was no kitchen, bathroom,
stove, refrigerator...

I wish.

And was the building condemned, sir?

I'm not sure.

Oh, wow.

I said, "That's on you."

It's not on her. It's on you.

[announcer] This is Judy Justice.

[theme music playing]

[announcer] Tracy Karlovich is suing
her former landlord, Matthew Sagarin,

for hotel costs, moving expenses,
and a security deposit.

[Kevin] Court come to order.

Have a seat, please.

- Morning.
- [Kevin] Good morning, Judge.

Case number 1131,

Karlovich versus Sagarin.

- Thank you.
- You're welcome.

[Judge Judy] Mr. Sagarin,
I'm gonna start with you, sir.

You decided to purchase a building.

And my understanding from your answer

is that the building had some
sort of historical significance

as a commercial building,
but it was currently

- in a residential neighborhood.
- Correct, Your Honor.

Where was it located?

[Mathew] In a small town
called Medford, Minnesota.

And you live there?

[Mathew] I had previously
owned a small farm, uh, near Medford.

I currently live in the Twin Cities.

[Judge Judy] What prompted you
to buy this building?

When I sold my farm,
I had a lot of equipment.

I had an excavator and a dump truck.

And I needed a place to store it.

So, this is a three-quarter acre site.

It's a large building

and my intention was
that I would use part of it for storage

and rent out, uh, the majority of it

to someone who needed a blacksmith shop

or a woodworker shop or, you know.

- It's an industrial building?
- Correct.

[Judge Judy] Was it ever your intention,
sir, to rehab the building

for the purposes of asking for permits

to use it as residences?

I had...I had an idea. Not a real plan.

It was an exciting opportunity

because of, uh, all the square footage
and space involved.

I put an ad on Craigslist
saying I have extra space,

you know, are you a woodworker,
an artist, an artisan.

Do you have a copy of that ad on...
that you...

[Mathew]
Unfortunately, I couldn't find it.

It was taken down because of the time.

[Judge Judy]
So this is what the case is about.

Ms. Karlovich, you're in
some sort of a car business.

Correct.

And you were in that business
in the same town?

No, actually, I'm coming
from 45 minutes north of this town,

so I'm moving the business.

[Judge Judy] Okay. What kind of place
did you have in your old town?

A warehouse-style garage shop.

[Judge Judy] Now when you lived
in the prior place,

did you have separate quarters
for yourself to live in?

Yes.

[Judge Judy] And how much did you pay
for the warehouse where you did your work?

[Tracy] Two thousand a month.

[Judge Judy] And how much
did you pay for your apartment?

It was the same area but it was separated.

But it was the same rent.

So you lived in the same place
where you work?

Well, so it was separated off
to living quarters and a shop area.

[Judge Judy] It was already set up
that way when you bought it.

Yes.

- Okay. Did it have a kitchen?
- Yes.

- [Judge Judy] Did it have a bathroom?
- Yes.

[Judge Judy] Did it have closets
in the bedroom?

- Yes.
- [Judge Judy] And that was 2,000 a month?

Correct.

[Judge Judy] When you saw
the defendant's ad on Craigslist,

how much was he asking for the property?

I don't believe there was a price...

[Judge Judy] Just a second.
Do you recall whether there was a price?

Nothing mentioned.

[Judge Judy] Okay. So you called him

- or contacted him.
- Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.

[Judge Judy]
Did you go and look at the space?

It was only 45 minutes away,

- I assume that you did.
- I did.

And you were satisfied with the space?

[Tracy] Well, I mean,
there was a journey to begin, for sure.

[Judge Judy] Okay. But you were
satisfied enough to rent the space.

[Tracy] Yes. Yes.

On what date did you rent the space?

[Tracy] So we began
this agreement on February 1st.

[Judge Judy] When you rented the space,
it was a warehouse.

Sure, yes.

- [Judge Judy] Did it have a kitchen?
- [Tracy] No.

[Judge Judy]
Did it have a bedroom with closets?

[Tracy] No.

- [Judge Judy] Did it have a bathroom?
- No.

[Judge Judy] How much
was he charging you for rent?

It was to be worked into a 1,350 a month.

Did you sign a lease?

Eventually, yes.

[Judge Judy]
What date did you sign a lease?

- [Tracy] Well, our verbal agreement...
- [Judge Judy] No, no.

- [Tracy] Okay.
- May...

[Judge Judy]
Verbal agreements don't count.

- May 1st.
- [Judge Judy] May 1st.

And when you saw
the apartment in February,

between February and May,
was your property in the building?

Yes.

[Judge Judy] Starting when?

February 1st,
but I did pay him a storage fee for it.

How much did you pay him as a storage fee?

Eight hundred a month.

[Judge Judy] And where were you living
when you paid him a storage fee?

[Tracy] So, I was staying in hotels
since February 1st.

And what happened on May 1st?

We signed an official lease...

[Judge Judy] Just a...may I see the lease?

[Judge Judy] Sure, absolutely.

[Mathew] Your Honor, if I may?

It sounds as if this young lady is saying

she paid a monthly rent
from February to May.

[Judge Judy] No,
she said she paid a storage fee.

[Mathew] Okay. Fair enough.

[Judge Judy] There was no lease
and she was living elsewhere.

That's what she says.

- We had made an agreement that...
- [Judge Judy] No, no,

this is your agreement

if this is a signed contract.

- Who prepared this lease?
- [Mathew] I did.

[Judge Judy] Where did you get it from?

I don't remember, I'm sorry.

You got it from the internet?

[Mathew] My recollection is that this was

a lease that I had used previously
and then I amended it for this purpose.

[Judge Judy] Sir, I'm reading this lease.
I'm sure you have a copy of it.

I don't have a copy.

[Judge Judy] Would you show this
to Mr. Sagarin?

Is that the lease?

- Yes.
- [Judge Judy] Okay.

It says the term of the lease
and the occupancy.

"The premises shall be used

and occupied exclusively by the tenants

and the occupants above,
except as follows...

no part of the premises

shall be used at any time
of the term of this agreement

by the tenant for the purpose
of carrying on any business,

profession, trade of any kind

or for any purpose
other than a private dwelling."

Kevin, show the defendant this.

That's the first clause, sir.

Okay. Yeah.

[Judge Judy] Because, sir,
I've read it out loud,

because your position in your defense
to this action is

she wasn't supposed to be living there,
this was a non-residential building.

It had no CFOs to be used
for her business only,

which she had stored from February to May,

- and that this clause is inaccurate.
- [Mathew] Oh, I agree. And...

Okay. But this is your problem, sir.

- You prepared the lease...
- Correct.

[Judge Judy] ...you signed it

- and you're bound by it.
- Yes.

[Judge Judy] Which is a problem for you
because if what you wanna tell me is,

well, it may say that but we agreed

that the premises wasn't fit
for human habitation.

It had no kitchen, had no bathroom,

it had none of the amenities,
the basic amenities

that one might expect
to find in a dwelling,

she knew that.

She moved in that way
and therefore I'm not responsible

for any of the things
that she says I'm responsible for.

Your problem is, sir,

and I think
you're a perfectly reasonable man,

you created a document
that is hurting you.

- No, I...and I understand that.
- That hurt you.

[Mathew] I will say, she had mentioned

right from our very first conversation

that she, she may have intended
to live there.

And I said, "I don't know
what the upshot of that will be.

I don't know the zoning,

I don't know what the building
department will..."

- I said I don't have a...
- [Judge Judy] Doesn't matter.

- You were renting...
- I said, "That's on you."

[Judge Judy] Just a...no, it's not on her.
It's on you.

And I'm sympathetic to you, sir,

but your contract that you created

says to her that she can live there
with her son as a dwelling.

Now, when you moved in in May,

it had none of the amenities
that you would had had previously

when you lived in a building

that had a spare apartment with your son.

That would be a fair statement.

That's a yes or a no.

- Yes.
- [Judge Judy] And you moved in anyway.

- We had verbal agreements.
- [Judge Judy] Just...

you can't have a verbal agreement
when you have a written contract,

- that's what he's bound by.
- Okay.

[Judge Judy] My point is that you knew
when you moved in there,

it didn't have any of the amenities

that you and your son needed to live.

And you knew that since February.

They were promised.

[Judge Judy] When you moved in in May,

- were they there?
- Right. No.

[Judge Judy] Did you, in May,
start to pay the 1,350 a month?

- Yeah.
- [Judge Judy] Did you live there in May?

[Tracy] Well, I attempted...

[Judge Judy] Just a second.
Did you live there in May?

Yes.

[Judge Judy]
Did your son live there in May?

No.

- [Judge Judy] Where did he live?
- With his father.

- [Judge Judy] Did you live there in June?
- Yes.

- [Judge Judy] Did you pay the 1,350?
- [Tracy] Yes.

- [Judge Judy] Did you live there in July?
- [Tracy] Yes.

- [Judge Judy] Did you pay the 1,350?
- [Tracy] Yes.

[Judge Judy] When did you finally leave?

[Tracy] October 1st.

So May, June, July, August, and September.

For five months,

you stayed in the same place
and in the same condition

as you saw it both in February and in May.

- No, there was some upgrades.
- [Judge Judy] Okay.

What were the upgrades?

Well, the bathroom was roughed in.

- [Judge Judy] Bathroom. What else?
- [Tracy] That's it.

[Judge Judy] Where were you living out of?

[Tracy] An RV in the front yard.

[Judge Judy] Okay. So you had an RV.
And the RV had a kitchen?

- [Tracy] Uh-hmm.
- "Uh-huh" is not an answer.

[Tracy] I'm sorry. Yes.

[Judge Judy]
And it had a place for you to sleep?

[Tracy] Yes.

[Judge Judy] And you had a place
for your business?

No.

[Judge Judy] Well,
what were you storing there?

[Tracy]
Well, storing things for my business

but I couldn't run a business there.

You weren't allowed
to run a business there?

Yes, according to that,
I guess you're right.

[laughs] According to this, you weren't
permitted to run a business there.

- Sure.
- [Judge Judy] Okay.

You don't have to bother taking this down.
I'm not even hearing it.

If they wanna talk to each other,
let 'em go to a counselor.

I am not a counselor, I'm a judge.

[theme music playing]

[announcer] Tracy Karlovich claims
her former landlord, Matthew Sagarin,

owes for hotel costs, moving expenses,
and a security deposit

after the building she rented
was condemned by the city.

[Judge Judy] Now,
you lived there on his property.

- Uh-hmm.
- [Judge Judy] In your RV

- with your stuff stored in his building.
- Uh-hmm.

Did your son ever move into the RV?

[Tracy] No, and the RV was bought
because I...

the inside was not livable yet.

So I bought the RV
for the sake of having somewhere to be

while things were getting done
inside the building.

[Judge Judy] And tell me
what happened in May.

[Tracy] So I didn't have the RV in May,

that came in July or so.

[Judge Judy] Well, where were you living
in May and June?

[Tracy] So I attempted to live in Medford

but there was no running water
or bathroom yet, so I was in hotels.

[Judge Judy] Okay.
But when you signed this lease...

[Tracy] Uh-hmm.

[Judge Judy] ...certainly you knew
that there was no kitchen,

bathroom, closet, bedroom,

- and you signed this lease.
- [Tracy] Yes.

I'm just talking about reality.

He made a big mistake in this lease.

And now I have to know
whether I'm speaking to someone

who was a victim of the defendant's fraud

or whether you're
an eyes-wide-open business gal

who understood exactly what the scoop was

because, according to you,
you had lived in a hotel

from February until May.

Isn't that what she said?
She lived in a hotel from February to May?

[Whitney] Yes, between February and May.

[Judge Judy] So from February to May,
before you signed this lease,

you were living in a hotel.

What's the name of the hotel?

Um, the Motel Six.

[Judge Judy] And where is that located?

Well, I stayed in different ones,
but I have receipts for all of them.

[Judge Judy] I don't need receipts
from all of them.

You were staying in the same Motel Six
between February and May?

[Tracy] I went to Florida and stayed
in a Motel Six where there was work.

[Judge Judy] What did you do in Florida?

[Tracy] Well, because in February...

[Judge Judy] Not a because.

- What were you doing in Florida...
- [Tracy] Working

- because I do work...oh, wow.
- [Judge Judy] Just a second.

You were in Florida working.

- Who else lives in Florida?
- Nobody.

[Judge Judy] Nobody that you know.

- But it's warm in Florida.
- [Tracy] Right.

[Judge Judy] What kind of work
were you doing in Florida?

The same kind of work I do here.

- [Judge Judy] Which is?
- I detail and recondition vehicles.

And where were you living there?

[Tracy] I just rented a place
for $700 a month.

[Judge Judy] So you were
paying storage space to him.

Uh-hmm.

[Judge Judy] How much
was she paying in storage space?

We had agreed on $800 a month
and that was paid twice.

[Judge Judy] Okay.
So between February and May,

you paid $1,600 to store your stuff,

'cause I believe him.

And $700 a month
for your apartment in Florida.

Correct.

[Judge Judy] Now you came back in May.

- Is that when you came back to Medford?
- Yes.

- And is that when you bought the RV?
- [Tracy] Yeah.

- June or so when I...
- [Judge Judy] Okay, okay.

So that's when you bought the RV,

- and you moved the RV onto his property.
- Yup.

-[Judge Judy] And you lived there.
- Yup. In May, so...

- Oh, just a second.
- [Tracy] Wow.

- Just a second. You lived there...
- Okay. Yeah.

... [chuckles] on his property.

What I'm saying to you is he

was not smart on giving you
this lease that called you

and your son tenants
of a particular address

except you were in fact living

at that particular address in your RV.

I mean, the RV wasn't parked
on the street,

- it was parked on the property.
- Right.

[Judge Judy] Okay.
So you were in fact living there.

- Yeah.
- [Judge Judy] Great.

That's all I wanna know.

Now we're gonna get to what happened

when...what month did she move out?
October?

- October 1st.
- 10/01.

You wanna tell me what happened on 10/01?

[Tracy] Uh, the building was condemned
prior to that.

- And so...
- [Judge Judy] Okay.

The building itself was condemned,
so you had to take out your stuff

from the warehouse part of the building

- that had been stored there.
- Yes.

When you were there
from May until October,

- and your work is detailing cars...
- Uh-hmm.

- [Judge Judy] ...were you working?
- Yes.

- [Judge Judy] From when to when?
- [Tracy] What do you mean?

[Judge Judy] You came back in May,
did you start working right away?

- I work all year long.
- [Judge Judy] Great.

And were you using tools and equipment
that had been stored?

- [Tracy] Yes.
- [Judge Judy] So let me understand this,

because I now am trying to figure out
what your damages are.

Was the building condemned, sir?

I'm not sure. I got a letter
from the building inspector after a...

[Judge Judy] May I see...just a second.

I'll see a copy
of the building inspector's letter.

[Mathew] After a long period...

Shh, I didn't ask you anything.

Okay. So he was advised the 11th of August

that the building was condemned.

When did he advise you
that the building was condemned?

[Tracy] He didn't advise me,
I advised him.

He never responded
to any of the notice that...

Oh. How did you know
that the building was condemned?

[Tracy] Because I was there.

So they first gave us a notice saying

we had a certain amount of days
to bring it up to code.

[Judge Judy] Now just a second.

So you knew before he knew
that the building itself...

[Tracy] Well, I'm sure he got...they said
they mailed it to him the same day,

but he didn't respond
to any of my inquiries.

So the building is condemned, not your RV.

Yes.

[Judge Judy] You were still living

- in the RV on the premises.
- Right.

[Judge Judy]
Did he ever evict you from the RV?

No.

[Judge Judy] So, what you had to do
is move your property

that was stored or used for your business.

[Tracy] Right.
And a two-year contract of having...

[Judge Judy] Well, he can't help it
if the building is condemned.

[Tracy] Well, he could've helped it.

They gave him a notice
of what he could do to the building

to keep it up, but he didn't.

[Judge Judy]
Again, he didn't. So what did you do?

[Tracy] So now I had to move...

[Judge Judy] Well, you didn't have to move
your RV.

I had to move my RV
'cause there's a city ordinance

that says you can only have it there
for so many days.

Oh, I don't know
a city ordinance that says

you can only have an RV.

[Tracy] And in the state of Minnesota if
it's condemned.

The statute says you have to return
at least the deposit

within five days so I can move.

[Judge Judy] Oh, just a second.

What I'm telling you was that
you in fact chose to leave and chose

to take your RV elsewhere.

Are you still living in an RV?

No. And I didn't choose to leave,
the city made me leave.

I don't know about that.

The city only talks about a building
that's being condemned.

[Tracy] And in the state of Minnesota,
if I could tell you quickly.

- No, you can't tell me.
- Okay.

[Judge Judy] If what you're suggesting
is in the state of Minnesota,

you can only keep an RV
on your property for so long.

- [Tracy] Uh-hmm.
- Is that what you're telling me?

Not. Not at all. But...

Oh, well. That would be interesting,

that's what you started to tell me before.

[Tracy] Well a verbal agreement is legal
in the state of Minnesota. It is.

Should've stayed in Minnesota.

[Tracy] Uh-hmm. Okay.

[Judge Judy] Here,
this case isn't worth $10,000.

You knew exactly what you were getting.

No, I had promises
of what was supposed to be done.

[Judge Judy] You knew...
you knew exactly what you were getting.

[Tracy] I have verbiage
and text messages showing

what he promised and what didn't happen.

I have all of the evidence of that
if you would like to see it

of him telling me that there would be
this, and this, and this done

so that I could run my business
and live there.

I have all of that evidence
if you wanna see it.

Oh, I would like to see anything
that he wrote to you.

Sure.

[Judge Judy] That says
not to worry by a date certain...

- Yeah.
- ...you will be able to live

in the building.

- I'd like to see it.
- [Tracy] I have lots of it.

[Judge Judy] No, just...

[Tracy] I mean, just from the agreement
on February 1st

is him telling me that...

- No, no, no, no, no, no.
- [Tracy] Okay.

Just give it to me.

Don't speak.

- Okay.
- [Judge Judy] Just answer my question.

I just wanna be done now obviously.

It's not really going my way and you're...

- I just can't with you.
- Well, it's not going your way.

- It was going your way with regard...
- Yeah. And the way you're talking to me.

[Judge Judy] Just a second. Don't speak!

[theme music playing]

[announcer] Tracy Karlovich has accused
her former landlord, Matthew Sagarin,

of renting her a building
that was condemned by the city.

Matthew says Tracy lived on his property

and stopped paying rent
for several months.

Okay. The last conversation
you had with him,

and this was after
the city condemned the building.

"I'll leave clean in 30 days quietly

for the 1350 deposit
returned to me in cash,

plus a check written to me
of $2,000 extra.

I have to start over again
and I have a business.

I think $2,000 on top
of the deposit returned to me

is getting off easy since we make
a two-year agreement."

Now did Ms. Karlovich give you a deposit?

- Yes.
- [Judge Judy] How much?



[Judge Judy] Did you return it to her?

- I did not.
- Why?

[Mathew] Because she paid
the first month's rent

of 1,350 and no rent of any kind...

- The second month as well.
- [Mathew] ...or any month after that.

Okay. So she paid the...

[Mathew]
My feeling was, and I'm not a lawyer...

[Judge Judy] No, no, no, no.
Don't...I don't wanna know your feelings.

- Feelings don't count.
- [Mathew] I didn't return the deposit...

Feelings should go to...just a second.

...because she owed me
for five months' rent.

- Just a second. Just a second.
- Five months' rent?

[Judge Judy] Feelings...don't speak to him.

Feelings don't count.

I deal with specifics.

You didn't return her deposit.

The reason you said
you didn't return her deposit is

that she moved in in May

- and paid the first months' rent?
- Correct.

Did she pay in June?

- Yes.
- Did not.

Just...I'll come to you in a minute.

- Did she pay in July?
- [Mathew] Did not.

- [Judge Judy] August?
- Did not.

- [Judge Judy] September?
- Did not.

- [Judge Judy] I'd like to see proof...
- Nor did she move out October 1st.

- [Judge Judy] Shh, just a second.
- Yes, I did. What does that mean?

What...you don't have to bother
taking this down.

I'm not even hearing it.

If they wanna talk to each other,
let 'em go to a counselor.

I am not a counselor, I'm a judge.

Show me proof that you paid him rent,

$1,350 in June,

July, August, and September.

That's all I need. You run a business,
you have a bank account.

Well, I don't write a check.

He doesn't give me a receipt,
so I don't have that.

But I did pay in June and July, and August

is when we got the first letter

saying that they were gonna condemn
the building.

- [Judge Judy] Just a second.
- So that's when I didn't pay.

Okay. Well, let us assume
that that's true.

I don't...not sure if I believe you.

But let us assume that that's true.

I'm trying to see if you're entitled
to your deposit back.

Sure.

[Judge Judy] You received a notice
according to you

in August that the building was condemned.

- Not according to me, it's here.
- Just...don't speak!

- Sure.
- [Judge Judy] August,

you received notice
that the building was condemned.

- Was the RV there in August?
- [Tracy] Yes.

[Judge Judy] Did you live there in August?

- Yes, in an RV in the front yard.
- Was the...uh, don't,

- don't speak.
- [Tracy] Okay.

- [Judge Judy] Just answer my question.
- I just wanna be done now, obviously.

It's not really going my way
and you're...I just can't with you.

[Judge Judy] It's not...well,
it's not going your way.

It was going your way with regard...

And the...and then the way
you're talking to me...

[Judge Judy]
Just a second. It was going your way,

I said $1,350,

did you return her deposit?

Which as far as I'm concerned,
you would've been entitled to

because there is no counterclaim
for any damage to the property.

But his response is "I didn't return it,"

not claiming damage
but he said you stopped paying rent.

And you clearly did.

Stop paying rent for at least,
according to you, two months.

You used his premises
and did not pay rent for two months.

He didn't do any of the things
that he promised that he was gonna do.

[Judge Judy] Okay.
This is not the case of being a victim.

- You knew exactly what you were buying.
- No, I didn't.

- Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.
- I made an agreement with somebody

which is legal in our state.

Yes, I have the lease.

The lease says
that you are renting his property

as a residence with no business.

I'm holding him to that lease,
and I'm holding you to that lease.

I said to him that was a huge mistake.

I'm holding you to the same lease,

which is you were a tenant,
no business, tenant, resident only.

And for the time
that you lived at that address,

you lived in an RV at his address,

it's not a public street.

You in fact lived someplace

and had the benefit
of being near your tools

where you worked for the months
that the lease provided for.

Wow.

So you have no case. It's dismissed.
We're done. Thank you very much.

- [Kevin] Court is adjourned.
- Thank you, Your Honor.

We had a verbal agreement
starting in February and I...

No, I, I think she was honest.

She wanted to run a business
and live there.

Completely have lost my business
and I have nowhere to live now.

It was a really unfortunate situation.

Because they showed up,
it doesn't even matter now.

It's not anything I feel good about.

I mean, it doesn't matter.
I don't even wanna talk about it.

Yeah, no question,
it was a learning experience.

[Sarah] I think that case was a great
demonstration of why non-lawyers

should be very careful
when they're drafting legal documents.

And it seemed like
he had been familiar with leases,

I think he said he had sort of used
a previous lease and amended it.

But such a big clause to miss
in the beginning can,

as we just saw, ruin an entire case.

[Judge Judy] Yes, the terms of the lease
were probably a lease in an apartment

- that he took at some point. [chuckles]
- Uh-hmm.

[Judge Judy] I think when both parties

relied on something
that was not factual in a lease...

- Uh-hmm.
- ...that a court has to look at it

and say, "Well, what damages
did you suffer?"

The lease itself as it was,
I was holding him to...

with his feet to the fire,
so at least I looked at it.

I, I actually said to him,
"Well, you wrote the lease."

And a document is viewed
most harshly in the law

against the person
who drafted the document.

So, he was in trouble
until I pivoted to the plaintiff.

And it was clear that she was
thoroughly aware of what was going on.

Even in the documents she prepared for me,

she said, "Well, I want
my security deposit back and $2,000."

But she had actually used his premises.

- She used it to live.
- And she...

[Judge Judy]
I mean, the address is the same.

If somebody was leaving mail,
that's where they would leave mail.

So, she was getting mail there,
she was living there,

she was cooking there,
she was sleeping there.

And she knew of the condition as well,

so it wasn't a deceitful lease
that was signed.

- No, no. Right.
- [Sarah] She had been to the premises.

She knew the state
in which it was in, so...

[Judge Judy] Right. And she appeared
to me to be a clever lady.

She went down to Florida
during the winter when it was cold.

Anyway, I think that the outcome was fair.

She ate the steak,
she lived there, you pay the rent.

Agreed.

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