02x18 - Phone a Friend

[bunniefuu]

- He didn't tell me he was moving out.
- And this is your girlfriend?

- Yes.
- Five years tomorrow.

And?

And I'm just saying it's five years.

- And?
- And the rest of our lives.

He know that?

- He's learning.
- He's learning.

- [audience laughs]
-Terrific.

[narrator]
This is Judy Justice.

[theme music playing]

[narrator] Adam Snider
and Julie Alles are suing

their former employee,
Trevor McCormick,

for breaking his lease,
the cost of a phone,

as well as a personal loan.

- [Kevin] Court come to order. All rise.
- Have a seat, everyone.

Case number 2031.
Snider, Alles versus McCormick.

- Thank you.
- Your welcome.

Mr. Snider, you own a farm?

- I do.
- And this is your girlfriend?

- Yes.
- How long has she been your girlfriend?

Uh...

Five years tomorrow.

You say that as if
five years tomorrow... and?

And I'm just saying it's five years.

- Five years tomorrow?
- Yeah.

- And?
- And... and the rest of our lives.

- Okay, good.
- [all laughing]

- He know that?
- No, he's learning.

- He's learning. Terrific.
- [audience laughing]

Okay, this is what I'm gathering
from the bare bones of the story.

Mr. McCormick
was dating an employee of yours.

- Correct.
- [Judy] What was that employee's name?

- Natasha.
- When were you dating the lovely Natasha?

We weren't really dating.
We were an acquaintance.

Where was Natasha living?

She was living...when we first met,
she was living at a friend's house,

and she was working for Adam
as an employee at a restaurant.

[Judy] And when was that,
month and year?

I'd say around September of last year.

- September 2021?
- Yes.

- And?
- [Trevor] And, um,

we decided to move
out because Adam had...

[Judy] Well, so you were living
with Natasha at the friend's house?

- Yes.
- Where had you been living before?

My mom's.

So, you went from Mom's house
to Natasha and her friend's house?

- Yes.
- Okay, and then where did you go?

Uh, then we moved into...

the trailer right next to Adam
that he owned.

[Judy] Who had a discussion
with Mr. Snider

about potentially renting the trailer,

- so you have a place...
- Natasha.

...to live, and what kind of
rent were you paying?

- I believe it was 800.
- And you moved into the trailer when?

- [Trevor] Around November.
- [Judy] Of 2021?

- Yes.
- And you lived in the trailer till when?

- About March.
- March of 2022?

- Yeah.
- In March, what happened?

Me and Natasha was...weren't
getting along, I just had enough.

There was never
a boyfriend-girlfriend relationship?

She was just a friend.
Did you know that?

- That is not true.
- [Judy] So, what did you do?

[Trevor] I asked Adam if I could
move into the ranch house.

There was nobody living there
at the time.

- Where were you living?
- I live at my home with Julie.

[Judy] Okay. And there's
a ranch house on the farm?

I have a ranch house
on a separate piece of property.

- Close by to the farm?
- Yes.

- Three miles.
- [Judy] That was vacant?

- Correct.
- Okay, so you asked to rent it?

- Yes.
- Who was going to rent it?

- [Trevor] I was.
- Just you?

- Yes, just me.
- How much was the rent?

It was 800.

- And this was in March.
- Yes.

Prior to March of 2022,
what kind of work were you doing?

- I was working at a factory.
- How long did you work there?

- About a month.
- What month?

- Uh, March.
- Prior to March, where were you working?

- Um, on Adam's farm.
- From when to when?

I'd say about December until March.

Well, in December to March,
you were living in the trailer?

- Yes.
- Okay.

And you were living
with the lovely Natasha?

- Correct.
- And Natasha, I assume,

- was contributing to the rent.
- Yes.

And how much were you contributing
to the rent?

- Um...
- "Um" It's not an answer.

How much were you contributing
to the rent from December to March?

- 2021.
- Couple hundred.

- What?
- Couple hundred a month.

That's not an answer.
A couple of hundred a month.

How much do you pay for rent?

Three hundred and sixteen dollars
a month, and 24 cents.

How much does it cost to have
your garbage picked up? $59.12.

Do you understand, sir, the exchange?
What was your electric bill last year?

I don't remember.
What was your bill last month?

- I don't remember.
- [Trevor] Three hundred, ma'am.

You see, but, I mean, a couple is two.

- Yes.
- Who did you pay that to?

Uh, Natasha.

Well, I can't tell whether
you paid that to Natasha or not.

Did you ever discuss rent with Mr. Snider?

- Uh, no.
- Even in the trailer?

- Even in the trailer.
- So, that was all done through Natasha?

- Correct.
- Okay, but according to you,

you worked someplace in March,
but before that you worked on the farm.

- [Trevor] Yes.
- From when to when?

- December to March?
- Yes.

Beginning, middle,
or the end of December?

- The middle, the 16th.
- Is that about right?

- If you want to call... helping...
- [Judy] Just a second. Helping, whatever.

-Yes.
- December 16th. Okay.

And from December 16th, you did whatever
work it was on the home until March?

- [Trevor] Yes.
- March what?

- Till I moved out.
- No, March what?

- Beginning, middle, end?
-Um, 28th.

And what was the rent
in the ranch house?

The ranch house
must have been nicer than

- the trailer you were living in.
- Eight hundred.

- You moved in in April?
- Yes.

How much money did you give him?

- Uh, $900.
- Some was to go towards security?

I was in between jobs,
and that's what I had.

So, we made an agreement
that I'd pay $900 the week of,

and then so on and so on.
I don't have the...

What's a "so on and so on?"

I don't have the copy of the lease.
He never gave me it.

- Did you sign a lease?
- Yes.

- I'd like to see it.
- I have it right here.

[Adam] In the back of the contract,

you'll see where we wrote down
he would pay nine hundred...

- [Judy] Just a second.
- ...on the 8th.

Okay. So, the security deposit
was supposed to be $1,200.

- You paid eight.
- Paid nine.

[Judy] The security deposit was twelve.

And you paid nine of security deposit?

I paid nine total, ma'am.

Well, how many months did you live there?

- Not even one.
- When did you move out?

April 24th, I moved out.

- Is that correct?
- That's close, yes.

- Okay, so...
- I don't know exactly when he moved out

because he didn't tell me
he was moving out.

- He just locked the door.
- Okay.

- But it was in April, okay.
- And wouldn't return my messages.

- And you had $900.
- He paid nine hundred.

And the rent on the property
was supposed to be?

- Eight hundred per month.
- Eight hundred monthly.

- Yes.
- So, right now,

you've been paid for the month
that he lived there?

- Correct.
- Prior to his moving in there,

- who was living there?
- Nobody.

- So, it wasn't rented?
- No.

In what year was it last rented?

- 2021.
- When?

Oh, no. It was in February.
We did an eviction on it.

So, somebody lived there
and didn't pay rent?

- Correct.
- Is that the first person

who came and didn't pay rent?

- Definitely not.
- Definitely not.

- Yeah, it's lousy to be a landlord.
- And Trevor was there,

and he helped us do the eviction on that,
so he knew how it worked.

- [Judy] Hmm?
- Trevor was there.

He helped us do the eviction because
we had to have court officers there.

[Judy] To get them out because
they weren't paying rent. I got...

[Adam] So, he knows how it works.

Well, he may know how it works,
but he did, in fact, give you $900.

- He did.
- And he lived there

- for less than a month.
- That's right.

So, that's sort of square.

I know you'd like him to be
responsible for his lease,

- but you have your house back.
- Mm-hmm.

Now tell me about this phone
that you say he owes you for.

- Okay.
- Where's your phone?

Um, I have my phone that I paid for.

Their phone that I put
a down payment for is at my house.

- Why?
- I didn't know I had to bring it.

Well, it was just
purchased within the last year.

- Yeah.
- Why do you have two phones?

[Judy] You have no job.
Why do you have two phones?

- I have a job.
- Oh, good.

Um, I bought this outright
because he shut the other phone off.

- [Judy] Oh, well, where is the phone?
- The phone's at my house.

- What kind of phone is it?
- It's an iPhone 13.

[Judy] Want it back?

I'd like him to just pay for it
like the agreement was, but...

He gets back his phone.

- Yes, ma'am.
- Okay.

- Even though I paid a down payment?
- Where do you live? Where do you live?

- I live in Highland.
- Where is that?

- It's by Detroit, Michigan.
- Who else lives at home?

- Um, my girlfriend.
- [Judy] What's her name?

- Ariel.
- Where is she?

- She is currently working right now.
- Does she know where the phone is?

- Yes.
- Okay.

We're going to give you an envelope
in the clerk's office back here.

You're going to tell Ariel
to put his phone

carefully packed and mail it to him.

FedEx, UPS, the fastest way
it will get there,

then you get your phone back.
Go. What's next?

I have text messages here from Trevor.

This will show where...
when he was dating Natasha,

they had agreed that they
would pay for their phones up front

so that I would
put them on my business plan.

I told them I would only do that
if they paid

for the phones up front,
because when I took Trevor to Verizon,

I said, if they don't pay
for their phone bill,

as long as they
paid for these phones in full,

I can shut them off and it would cost
my business no money, correct?

And the lady said, "That is right."
I said, okay, then we can do it.

So, we added them to the bill,
to the business plan.

And here where I text him,

I said, "You and Natasha told me
you were paying for the phone in cash.

That's why I allowed you
on my business plan.

Now, I found out that you
did not pay for the phones up front."

Because when we were in there,
he and Natasha had the cash...

Did you assure Mr. Snider that you
were going to pay for the phone?

I had no idea I was even going
to get a phone until Natasha said,

"Go with Adam and go pick up our phones."

That's all I heard,
and that's what I did.

[Judy] Well, you can't say that to me

because the lovely Natasha
isn't here either.

Sir, you're going to get your phone back.

- Is it one phone or more?
- We recovered the second one from...

Well, you're going to recover
this one, too.

- You recovered the second one.
- Yeah.

- The second one was Natasha's?
- Correct.

Great. We're going to recover
this one, too.

What's next? Changing lock fees.
And you want a personal loan?

Okay, so once he moved out,
according to you, he moved out totally.

And you didn't even know he moved out,

so, I don't know why
the locks were changed.

The lock did not need changed.
I did tell the court

that we were going to have to change
the locks because the key was missing.

I didn't know that
while I was away on storm,

Julie had gone in to check
to make sure the water wasn't running,

and she found the key on the table.

- That is what Trevor said, so...
- [Judy] Okay, great.

So, we're going to eliminate that,
and now we're going to go

to the small loan that you say
that you made to the defendant.

Um, so, Natasha came over,
as he said.

- She worked at...
- Don't tell me what Natasha asked you.

That's all hearsay.

I need to know what conversations
you had with the defendant.

[Julie] Okay, but she came over...

[Judy] But you can't tell me
what she said, you see?

- So, anyway, I gave...
- If you made a contract...

If you made a contract
with Natasha for a loan of money,

even if it went for his benefit,

- do you understand?
- Okay.

Even if it went for his benefit,
he's not responsible.

If Natasha says, "I want you to give..."
what's your first name?

- Trevor.
- "...Trevor a loan to fix his car."

And you say okay,
you need somebody to pay you back,

Natasha has to say,
"I'll pay you back."

However, you can't tell me that.

I was not in the house at the time
when they were discussing that.

- Well, you said you went into the house.
- I came to pick Natasha up.

I don't want you to make yourself
appear any more stupid.

Do you understand?
Try not to do that.

[theme music playing]

[narrator] Adam Snider and Julie Alles

claim their former employee,
Trevor McCormick,

owes for the cost of a phone
and a personal loan.

Trevor is countersuing for unpaid wages.

Now, did you ever have a conversation
with Trevor about money?

I do. I have a text message
telling him...

No, no, tell me.
Not a text message.

The conversation was not verbal.

- It was by text message?
- Correct.

Okay, so I'd like to see
a text message from him.

Yep. This is from Trevor.

- This is his number.
- Okay.

May I see it, please.

[Julie] He did pay me $100 in cash.

[Judy] Okay, so it's clear
from this text exchange, sir,

that you borrowed a certain
amount of money from the plaintiff.

- I did not borrow, Natasha...
- Yes, well,

it acknowledges it here because you say,
"I start that job on the 14th.

I will pay you back
out of my first check.

It was for me, and I will pay it."

That's what you wrote.
Do you understand?

- Do you want to look at it?
- No.

You don't want to look at it?
You're not questioning me.

So, it's clear from this that you
borrowed money from Miss Alles.

I personally did not.
I didn't even know what was going on.

Who wrote this?
"I start that job on the 14th."

- [Trevor] That was me.
- Well, then,

that's in response to her text message
to you that says, "Hello, Trevor,

I heard you were moving out, and I need
that paid by the end of the month.

I have been very patient

as no attempt has been made
on this. Thank you."

And you immediately wrote back to her
and said, "I start that job on the 14th,

and I will pay you
out of my first paycheck."

That's what you said to her.

- Yes, ma'am.
- [Judy] Yes, ma'am.

Now I'm going to get back and ask you
the question I think I asked before.

- What was the loan for?
- Uh, I broke down in Oklahoma.

- In what month and year was that?
- About September of last year.

September of 2021 is just about
when you started dating Natasha.

- Correct.
- Okay, so your car broke down

in Oklahoma, and...

And it had to get fixed.

[Judy] And?

So, I rode the Greyhound bus
back up to Michigan

and waited until my car got fixed.

- It took months.
- I'm asking you, what was the loan for?

To go back down and get my car.

So, it was $670 that you borrowed from
her,

and I want to know
how it was that you got the money.

I came in to Julie's house,

and Natasha said, "You're going
to Oklahoma to pick up your car,"

'cause I didn't have any money
right then and there,

but I wasn't going to ask anybody...

Just a second. I don't care what you were
going to do, what you didn't do,

what you thought about doing.

You went into the house
that the plaintiffs share.

- [Trevor] Mm-hmm.
- [Judy] Not "uh-huh."

"Uh-huh" is not an answer.
The answer is yes.

- The lovely Natasha was there?
- Yes.

- With Julie?
- Yes.

What did you say and what
did Julie say to you? Just Julie.

Julie didn't really say anything.

She said,
"Don't tell Adam about the money."

- So, she said she would give you money?
- Yes.

And she knew exactly how much you needed?

- Yes.
- Did you tell her that?

- No.
- Okay.

When she gave you the money,
did she give it to you in check or cash?

She didn't give me no money.
She gave Natasha the money.

- Okay. How much was it?
- $700, around there.

And after it was given to you
by Natasha, but you were all

in the same room together?

I was not in the house at the time
when they were discussing that.

- Well, you said you went into the house.
- I came to pick Natasha up.

Yes.

I don't want you to make
yourself appear any more stupid.

Do you understand? Try not to do that.

You were in the house with Julie
and Natasha at some point,

and at some point money was discussed?

- No.
- Was money discussed in front of him?

- No, it was not.
- Okay, so your loan was not with him.

- Do you understand?
- Yes.

Unless he ratifies the loan
subsequently.

- Is that correct?
- Correct.

This is from my person who just studied
for the bar.

And I have to go back in my mind 50 years,
if my memory is correct.

If you don't make
a loan directly with someone,

they cannot be obligated
to repay that money.

However, if they subsequently get
use of that money and subsequently agree

to repay you,
they have ratified that contract.

Correct. You just have to
decide if that's a ratification.

Yeah.
What would be your take on that?

Take a look at it very carefully.
What would be your take?

"It was for me. I will pay it."

It seems pretty close
to textbook ratification.

Yeah, I would say so.
"I start a job on the 14th.

I will pay you back
out of my first paycheck."

I just wanted to keep the peace
because she was down my throat.

- This woman was down your throat?
- Yes.

[laughing]

She may have been annoyed, very annoyed,
but she wasn't down your throat.

She was the one who volunteered
to give you money in your time of need.

How could she be down your throat?
Okay, so so far, you paid her back $100.

Is that what he paid you back?
So, he owes you 600 bucks, okay.

So far, Mr. Snider,
I'm not with you on it, on the rent.

- Okay.
- I'm not with you on

the lock change fees.

I am with you on the phone,
which you're going to get back.

He's going to get that back
within five days.

- Otherwise...
- I have some more receipts here

from the day that he did
the phone purchases.

Instead of paying for the phones up front,
he also added a bunch of other

cordless phone chargers
and everything else to the bill.

How much was...
how much were the extras?

- Totally, there's 2,000...
- No, no, no, I don't want 'em total.

You're going to get the phone back.

What were the extras
that he charged on to the phone?

- There is a $41.99
- $41.99.

- There is a $20.99.
- Okay. You know that I went

to seven years of postgraduate school
for this. Keep going.

- Twenty-nine ninety-nine.
- Seven years. They were very hard years.

I also took the bar exam.
Keep going, $29.99.

Seventeen ninety-nine.

Ah, it's getting worse.
Not better for you, Mr. Snider.

- And $11.99.
- Worse. A lot worse.

A hundred twenty-two dollars
and ninety-five cents.

Okay. You have a counterclaim?

Yes, ma'am.

- For what?
- Working on the farm.

Okay. Tell me about that.

From when to when
did you work on the farm?

November to the end of March.

And what were you doing
between November and March?

I was feeding cattle when Adam
was on storm, watering them...

To March what?
The end of March?

- Yes. Right.
- I thought you worked at a factory?

- I did both.
- Well you can't do both.

You work at a factory.
I asked you if you had a job.

- You said, "I work at a factory."
- I did do both.

Well, now I need the name of the factory
and find out what your shift was.

It was, uh, [redacted].

And you work during the day?

- Yes.
- From when to when?

- Time.
- From six to six.

- Well.
- I had...

Just a second. Mr. McCormick,
if you work from 6:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m.,

it is not possible to work full
time job for the plaintiff as well.

I had a schedule of three on, two off.

Okay. We're making
it up as we're going along.

Did you have
a financial arrangement with him

- for putting out these bales of hay?
- We never did.

Although he did get paid
for everything he did

until the last day
that he worked for me,

where we were
tearing apart a building.

- That's incorrect.
- [Judy] Oh, just don't speak.

[theme music playing]

[narrator] Adam Snider and Julie Alles
have accused their former employee

Trevor McCormick, of refusing to pay
the cost of a phone

and the balance of a loan.

Trevor claims he was not paid
for the work he did on their farm.

Now, did he work for you?

It would be very minimal.
He would put hay bales out.

- Which would take ten minutes.
- He would put what?

Hay bales out for the cattle.

- Hay bales?
- Yes.

At approximately what time of day?
Because I'm not getting...

He could come and do it
when he got home from work.

Okay, and did you have
a financial arrangement with him

- for putting out these bales of hay?
- We never did.

Okay. Is there any reason
why you never did?

Because he didn't do it very often,
and he said he was just happy to help.

Although he did get paid
for everything he did until the last day

that he worked for me,
where we were tearing apart a building.

- So, he got paid when he worked for you?
- He did.

- That's incorrect.
- Oh, just don't speak.

- [Judy] From when to when?
- When he helped me, it was very minimal.

- It would be...
- No, I'm not talking about the hay.

You said, "He did, in fact,
work for me."

- He did.
- I want to know...

But not on the farm.
He worked someplace else.

He helped on another
piece of farmland that I have...

- Okay.
- ...where a barn had fallen down.

We were tearing the steel off.

- And he worked three hours that morning.
- Three hours what morning?

The last day that he was there.
It would have been...

- [Judy] So, that's in March?

Early... I would say
the second week of March.

Okay. When was
the first time he worked there?

I would say probably in January.

And he was working at
this other plant from six to six

- in March, according to him.
- Correct.

So, he did some work for you in
the first month, which was January.

Yeah. If he helped me,
it might be one day a week.

I just want to know if he got paid for it.

That's what he's...
we can't do may something.

- How much did you pay him?
- It would depend on how much he worked.

One day, I gave him $300
for helping me for a day and a half

on another demolition job I did.

- And you paid him in cash?
- Correct.

- [Judy] Okay.
- That was for the demolition job,

that wasn't for the farm.

It doesn't make any difference, sir.
If you have a full time job

and you're working part time
someplace else,

- and you say he paid you...
- He did not pay me.

Well, you say
he didn't pay you for the farm.

What he's saying is,
"He had a job with me.

He was... a demolition job
for which he got paid."

Which you do not deny, is that right?

- I'm not...
- You just... that's not what I asked you.

He paid you for the job that you did
part time for him...

Yes, he paid me for that job, yes.

- So, that's a yes.
- Yes.

And what you're
suing him for is, allegedly, money

that he holds you for working on the farm

during a period that does include March,

when you were
working full time someplace else.

- Correct.
- And working for him.

- Yes.
- And doing this work at the site

in March, the first two weeks
in March because

- you got some money for that.
- Correct.

So, now you have,
according to you, three jobs.

- One, two, three.
- Yes.

First of all, you had no fixed financial
arrangement with him at the farm.

Correct. He said
he'd pay me what he can.

[Judy] That is not a contract. Okay,
but let's move forward with that.

Tell me what your chores were at the farm.

- I would go feed them hay.
- Just feed who hay?

- The cows.
- Okay. How many cows do you have?

One hundred thirty.

Anybody else work on the farm or just him?

Just me mainly,
and he would help when I was gone.

Okay. And in order to keep these
animals alive, they have to be fed hay?

- Correct.
- For how many months

did you feed them hay?

- Three.
- Once a day?

- Yes.
- And what time would you do this?

- Um, usually in the morning.
- Before you went to work?

Yes.

That had be five o'clock in the morning.
You went to work at six o'clock.

You had a shift,
according to you, from six to six.

- Yes.
- Okay, so how long did this take you

in the morning
when you had a full time job?

- [Trevor] Sometimes...
- Not sometimes.

I want you to tell me
how long it took you.

Average about an hour and a half a day.

Let's say it took you an hour a day.
And how many days did you do it?

I was with him every day before I got
the job. I would go with him every day.

- I don't care.
- Okay, um...

For the three months, let me ask you
how many days you did it?

- Forty-five.
- That'd be right?

In the three months, maybe 45 days,
how many days did he put out?

If Trevor fed the cattle twelve days,

the whole time by himself,
I'd be surprised.

- And I helped him because I was there.
- You did not help me when he was gone.

- You helped him with the bales of hay?
- Yes, I helped him.

Because we also had another
hired hand that would help me, too.

So, I was rotating between both of them.

Okay, so let's say he worked 20 hours.

Did you pay him
any extra money for this work?

- No, not for feeding cattle.
- Not feeding cattle.

And you didn't have
any arrangement with him

whereby he would work on the farm
and he would get something off his rent?

- No.
- Okay, so he has to be paid for that.

Sarah Rose, would you look up and see
if there's a minimum wage in Michigan?

What's the federal minimum wage?
I don't know anymore.

Fifteen dollars.

So, the minimum wage is now $15 an hour.
That's federal?

- Yes, ma'am.
- 15 times 20.

- Uh, $300.
- Okay.

So, Mr. Snider,
let's start with you.

You are going to get your
phone back within five days.

On your cross claim against Mr. Snider,
I am awarding you $300,

on your counter claim, that is for
the work that you did on the farm.

However, we are holding that check until
he gets his phone back in good condition.

Do you understand? Otherwise,
you forfeit that money.

- Yes, ma'am,
- To him.

- Do you understand?
- Yes.

With regard to the co-plaintiff,
I find that you did, in fact,

take a loan from her.

That you initially did it
through a third party, but that you

ratified the fact that you would
make payments on the loan by two things.

First, by acknowledging it in writing,
and second, by making a payment.

So, I'm awarding you $600 on your claim.
Those are the orders of the court.

- Thank you.
- [Kevin] This court is adjourned.

I think they're scam artists.

We came here to try to teach him
a lesson that when he enters

into contract with somebody,
the contract is a contract.

They're greedy. They want money.
They need money.

For being greedy,
we did a lot to help this guy out.

By doing pretty much
anything they asked.

Well, we've decided we're not
helping people out anymore.

They're on their own.

It's funny, because if he didn't
send those text messages

ratifying the contract that
someone else had made on his behalf,

he could have gotten away
without any responsibility.

But when someone makes
a agreement on your behalf

and you then later either pay for it

or admit responsibility
that you know you owe it,

then you've ratified it
and you're held to that,

even if you didn't make
the initial agreement.

- See, and then the right thing happened.
- Yeah, it did.

- The right thing happened.
- It did.

- That's good.
- Taking accountability.

[narrator] Want justice?