02x104 - Meet the Truth! and Loan Shark Sticker Shock

[bunniefuu]

You met online?

Yes.

And that's when you asked her for money?

I didn't borrow it.

Show me!

Uh, because she offered to help me
so I kind of got comfortable to ask.

"Got comfortable to ask"?

I don't give a rat's behind.

[narrator]
This is Judy Justice.

♪♪

[narrator] Joy Peterson is suing
her ex-boyfriend James Stewart

for travel costs and a loan.

[bailiff]
Court come to order. All rise.

Have a seat please.

Hello, Judge.

Case 2102.
Peterson versus Stewart.

-Thank you.
-You're welcome.

[Judy] Mrs. Peterson,
you and Mr. Stewart met online?

Yes.

You met Mr. Stewart and according
to your complaint, a romance developed

and there are two things
that you believe now

that the romance is over that he owes you.

One of them is a loan
that you made to him for a $1,000.

Now Mr. Stewart does not deny
that you gave him a $1,000. Correct?

No, ma'am.

Your defense is that it was a gift.

-Correct.
-[Judy] And not made as a loan.

OK.

On what date did you
and Ms. Peterson start to date?

Uh... we never dated.

We actually wasn't...
through no dating site.

Just uh, somehow coincidence
we came through.

Did you see her?

I met her once in person.

[Judy] When?

When she paid for a hotel for my birthday.

Give me the date.

[James] January 30th.

-[Judy] Of this year?
-Yes, ma'am.

So you met for the first
time in January of 2022.

Tell me about the $1,000.

If you're playing with your papers
you're not gonna hear where we're going.

-OK.
-The $1,000 at that time I was...

I was...
been struggling with heart disease,

which I...I just got out the hospital
for having a heart surgery last Friday.

So financially my dealership
was a little bit under the burden,

so I asked her if she would help me.

And when did you ask her?
Was that in January?

No ma'am, that...that's
a couple months later.

[Judy] All right,
so that would be in March?

-Yeah.
-And the only time

that you ever met her was in January?

I met her once. Other than that,
when she gave me the money.

Other than that it was just normally
her texting me, "How you doing?

Do you want to meet up?"

-[Judy] OK.
-Et cetera.

-[Judy] So you met personally twice?
-[James] Correct.

And after January, you didn't see
each other personally just by messages.

And that's when you asked her for money

and you were gonna tell me why in March
you asked her for money.

I understand that you just recently
came out of the hospital,

and while I'm happy to see
you looking well and healthy

it's really irrelevant to this case.

-Yes, ma'am.
-[Judy] OK.

So why did you ask her for a $1,000?

Because she offered to help me.

No, no, no. Nobody offers to help you

unless they know that you need help.

Well, it's in writing.

[Judy] No.
Nobody offers to help you unless...

Yes, ma'am.

...you let them know that you need help.

I was kind of life-coaching her.
We both was going back and forth.

We had an open line of communication
so I kind of got comfortable to ask.

-So I see what you're saying.
-"Got comfortable to ask"?

She already gave me money
before that $1,000.

That's why I was comfortable.

Just a second.
I'm talking about the loan.

Mm-hmm.

[Judy] I want you to tell me,

since you acknowledged
that she gave you the money.

Tell me why you needed it.

Well, I needed it because
I paid for the trip,

which was $2,180 which she gave me $2,000.

Plus $160 more for luggage.

Came to just shy of $2,400.

I don't understand
what you're talking about.

Well, she's already came to me
and gave me money

for us to take this little trip together.

What does that have to do
with this $1,000?

That's not what I'm talking about.
Are you...

Because she was supposed to come
and reimburse some of the money.

'cause I paid already into the trip.

So I was asking her for money.

Am I crazy?

Did he start to talk about
his business needing money?

He has a used car business.

-Yes.
-[Judy] Really?

Before you come on a program like this
you should really watch

so that you would know that
one of my favorite sayings is,

"If you tell the truth
you don't have to have a good memory

-especially if you're smart."
-Mm-hmm.

Now, if you're not so smart,

[chuckles] within three minutes
you tell two different stories.

That, Mr. Stewart, is a phrase
that you should learn to live by.

If you tell the truth
you don't need a good memory.

That's not correct, Your Honor.

Well, that's only because
you wouldn't know the truth

because you have had been
introduced to the truth.

He says, "The $1,000 at that time,

I was struggling with heart disease
which I just got out of the hospital

for having a heart surgery last Friday.

So actually my dealership
is a little bit under the burden.

-So I asked her if she would help me."
-[Judy] That's right.

So you remember saying that?

-[James] Yes, ma'am.
-OK.

so that's different from,
"She was paying me back."

You just have to acknowledge
that's different.

Yes, ma'am.

OK. And let me tell you
what you swore to in your answer.

"She offered to help me catch up
on my child support."

On a phone conversation. Yes.

I just asked you one simple question, sir.

You acknowledge she gave you a $1,000.

What was it for?

So now I have three reasons.

One, your car dealership
was a little bit of a burden.

Two, she was returning your money to you,

and three, you were catching up
on your child support.

Those are the three things
that I have in front of me.

Yes, ma'am.

Is it door number one,
door number two or door number three?

Whichever one you would like, ma'am.

So, so far it's a $1,000
for the Plaintiff.

Now whether it was for school

or whether it was
for your children's support

she's not responsible
for your children's support.

You are responsible
for your children's support.

-Have you ever met his children?
-No.

[Judy]
She doesn't even know your children?

-No.
-Do you have a child support order?

No. She asked me to marry her.

Just a sec... I asked you a question.

-You're not her.
-[James] Yes, ma'am.

Do you have children? The answer is...?

-Yes. I have children.
-[Judy] Yes.

-Yes, ma'am.
-[Judy] Yes.

♪♪

This is not a dance.

-No. I'm just saying...
-This is not a dance.

Yes, ma'am.

[Judy] You lead. I lead.
You lead. I always lead.

-Yes, ma'am.
-[narrator] Later...

[Judy] You had some
trouble with your finances

and you had serious debt.

What kind of work do you do?

I am a credit collections agent.

Not a good thing when you're
a credit collections agent.

[laughs]

♪♪

[narrator] Joy Peterson claims
her ex-boyfriend James Stewart

owes for travel costs and loan.

Now the children do not live with you.

They're above age. Yes, ma'am.

When you swore in your answer
that you had gotten behind

in your child support order,
what child support order was that?

It's the last child 'cause I got behind
'cause I was out of work.

So they're above age

but I owe a little arrears.

OK. So that's the child support
that you were behind.

Had you been noticed to come
to court on those arrears?

I've never been in a contempt.
No, ma'am.

I've always kept
a good standings with 'em.

-[Judy] OK, but you're behind now?
-Yes, ma'am.

[Judy]
You were behind then in March?

-Yes, ma'am.
-OK.

And you knew you were behind because...?

I was on bedrest for five months
due to a knee surgery

-and some heart issues.
-[Judy] OK.

Did you request that
your child support order

that was on arrears only be stayed
while you weren't working?

I got a new case worker wasn't willing
to work with me at that time so...

[Judy]
OK, so there was difficult...

Your caseworker was involved
in this child support order?

-[James] Yes.
-Uh... that sounds better.

And the child support order
was in favor of the State?

I don't owe the State no money.

I paid all fees off with them.

I just owed the back child support

To the mother of the children?

-Yes.
-[Judy] OK. $1,000.

Now I'm gonna come to you.

According to you, you gave the defendant

$2,000 to buy travel tickets for you?

Yes, Your Honor.

When?

[Joy]
I gave him money in March.

At the same time that
you gave him the $1,000?

No, ma'am.

That...that was in April.

Show me proof of that.

And I wanna see $2,000
taken off from someplace

for him to pay for these tickets.

And they were tickets for you to go
from where you live, which is where?

Springfield, Ohio.

To Miami?

[Joy] Yes, ma'am.

[Judy]
The $2,000 was in March.

What were you gonna do in March?

In March, I gave him the $2,000
of purchased tickets.

'Cause I asked him, "Can you get
discounts for us to go to Miami?"

'Cause I was gonna have surgery.

So he told me, "Yes, sure."

So I gave him the $2,000 for that.

That's not true.

Then he said,
"Well, that's gonna be more than that."

I said,
"Well, that's all I have for the tickets

for me and my daughters.

He said he wanted to go.

So he was planning on going.

[Judy] Mr. Stewart?

Yes, ma'am.

[Judy] On what date did she give you
the $2,000 to buy the tickets?

It was early March.

-She contin...
-Yeah, March... looks like March 25th.

-She gave you $2,000?
-[James] Yes.

[Judy] And when were
you supposed to go to Miami?

We...we were supposed to go
July 4th and she gave...

OK. Just a sec.
You're supposed to go in July.

So you're talking about four months later?

Yeah, she canceled a trip.

[Judy] Oh... OK.
When did she cancel the trip?

Uh, she canceled a trip
about a month later.

So she canceled trip in April?

Yeah. And it was a third party.
So it's non-refundable.

I don't know that at all.

-[James] Yes, ma'am.
-Now just a second.

So you're gonna have to show me.

I didn't borrow it.

You borrowed the $1,000.
I didn't say you borrowed this $2,000.

She gave you money for a specific purpose.

-Right? She went...
-Don't speak.

She gave you money for a specific purpose

to purchase airline tickets.

For us.

Which you...
I don't give a rat's behind for who.

She gave you money to purchase...

-As I did
-...airline tickets.

-As I did.
-This is not a dance.

-No I'm just saying...
-This is not you lead. I lead you.

You lea... I always lead.

Yes, ma'am. Absolutely.

-[Judy] I always lead.
-[James] Yes, ma'am.

She gave you $2,000 to buy tickets

that you acknowledge.

The trip was canceled

three months before the trip.

Now you say they were
non-refundable tickets.

Yes, ma'am.

Show me!

-[James mumbles]
-[Judy] I just wanna see

where you tried to get either
a refund or a credit.

-Three months... Ah!
-There's proof that I...

Don't... speak!

-You...
-Mm-hmm.

...have to show me.

Because you just said the tickets
were non-refundable tickets

and "I couldn't either get money back
for them when she canceled it

or a credit."

And I said in all that paperwork,
show me.

It's just public knowledge
on their website.

I apologize. I do not have it.

[Judy] It's not public knowledge
on any website.

Judgment for the Plaintiff
in the amount of $3,000.

$1,000 loan. $2,000 for the tickets.

We are finished here.
Thank you very much.

-Well, Your Honor...
-[Judy] Out!

-[bailiff] This court is adjourned.
-Out!

She wanted to go on a vacation.

Taking advantage of me.

She was being a little aggressive.

Don't even look that way. [laughs]

Now. Hopefully we could
just move on with our lives.

I think we should print that on cards
to hand out to people as they leave here.

"If you tell the truth,
you don't have to have a good memory."

[laughs] Yeah. That was pretty funny.

That defendant in the first 15 seconds
told three different stories

about the same $1,000.

Reminded me of a toddler
when you ask if they had cookies

and it's all over their mouth
and they say,

"No I didn't have chocolate,
I didn't have candy."

[laughs] 15 seconds.
Three different stories.

-So if you tell the truth...
-You don't need a good memory.

[Sarah] Not at all.

Case 2158, Smith versus Crossley.

All parties, please step forward.

[narrator] Justin Smith is suing
his ex-girlfriend Jessica Crossley

for an unpaid loan.

[Judy] Ms. Crossley,
I'm gonna start with you.

You and Mr. Smith were in a romantic
relationship for a period of time?

-Yes.
-[Judy] From when to when?

I wanna say it was about
a year before my son was born.

My son was born February 11th, 2019

and our relationship ended about...

four or five months after he was born.

And after you separated,
according to what I read,

you sort of remained friends?

-Yes.
-[Judy] Great.

You had some trouble with your finances

and you had serious debt.

What kind of work do you do?

I am a credit collections agent.

Not a good thing when you're
a credit collections agent.

And this was after you
had already been separated

for a long period of time
and at some point

what I'm piecing together is,

you discussed your financial
circumstances with Mr. Smith.

Yes.

And one of your options was
to seek protection in bankruptcy.

Correct.

And Mr. Smith thought that
that was a bad idea?

Yes.

So he suggested that you take out a loan,
consolidate all this debt,

which was on, I assume, on credit cards
with very high interest.

And since he had credit,
he would take out the loan

and you would pay that loan off

which was manageable every month.

Is that generally what this is about?

-Yes.
-[Judy] Yes.

♪♪

His behavior had started
getting irrational, scary.

Started calling me a lot,

asking my whereabouts, texting me,

driving by my house
on several occasions I saw.

I'm still not understanding
why you stopped paying on the loan.

♪♪

♪♪

[narrator] Justin Smith claims
his ex-girlfriend Jessica Crossley

owes for an unpaid loan.

Mr. Smith did take out that loan.

Month and year?

March of 2022, this year.

[Judy] What were the payments
each month starting in March or April?

Principle and interest.

He had told me that there was $500.

[Judy]
Told you they were $500.

He took out that loan.

And am I correct, Ms. Crossley,
that you paid off your credit card debt?

Yes.

And you paid off your debt
with the loan that he took out?

Yes.

[Judy] And you did in fact
create a situation

where the money because you were employed,

would come out directly
from your bank account

to go to pay off the loan
to his bank account?

Yes.

[Judy]
And you did that in what month?

That was started,
I believe, at the end of April

or beginning of May.

And how many such payments did you make?

Biweekly payments,
I believe I made about six.

Thereby acknowledging
that this was a loan.

At some point you stopped
making the payments.

What month did you stop
making the payments?

In July of this year.

-[Judy] Why?
-[Jessica] So...

I had started seeing
my current boyfriend.

This is not a social show,
just tell me why.

So I had to take a day off of work

to file for an Order of Protection.

Why did you have to take
a day off from work

to file for an Order of Protection?

Because I was, uh, advised to
by a police officer I spoke to.

-OK. And I assume against him?
-[Jessica] Yes.

[Judy]
OK. Give me the incident.

OK. So in July when I started
seeing my current boyfriend,

Justin had expressed that he wanted us

to get back together

and I had told him no
that was not going to happen.

And then his behavior had started getting

irrational, scary.

started calling me a lot,
asking my whereabouts,

texting me, driving by my house
on several occasions I saw.

And then there was an incident
on July 19th

where I had allowed his mother
to take my son to a play,

um, and she was supposed to
drop him off back to me.

And instead of dropping him back off to me

she had dropped him off
with his father at his work.

And then I got a call from Justin
yelling saying, "Where are you?

What are you doing right now?"

And I'm like,
"Well, I'm on my way back home.

Your mom's supposed to drop off Braden."

He's like, "I have Braden,
I'll meet you at your house."

So I said OK.

We got to outside my house
and then he pulled up next to me

and then started screaming
out of the car like,

"Where were you?
What were you doing?"

I was like, "I was spending time
with Anthony, my boyfriend."

And he's like,

"I'm taking Braden,
I'm not gonna give him back to you.

And my son's crying in the backseat.

And I said, "No, you came back to me.
It is my day to have him."

And he drove away.

He later called me and said
I can meet them at Dairy Queen.

So I met them there.

I got out of the car,
I went up to my son

and as I was getting him in the car,
Justin had walked up to my car

and started yelling and swearing at me.

And as me and my son started driving off
he threw a milkshake at my car

which scared me and my son very much.

[Judy] OK, good.

And you filed for an
Order of Protection you had a trial

-on the Order of Protection?
-Yes.

[Judy] And the judge dismissed
your Order of Protection?

-Yes.
-[Judy] After the trial?

-Yes, ma'am.
-OK.

I'm still not understanding
why you stopped paying on the loan.

So when I had lost my job...

You lost your job when?

The next day.
The incident happened on the 19th

I had to take the 20th off
to file for the Order of Protection.

The 21st, I was let go.

Oh, that had nothing to do
with you being let go.

Nothing. I just wanna know why
you stopped paying on the loan.

You stopped paying on the loan
because you lost your job.

Are you working now?

Yes. I just started working.

[Judy]
Well, did you start paying him back?

-Uh, no.
-Why?

So also in July when all these
incidents happened

Justin had stopped paying for daycare,

which was our agreed-upon
child support payment.

We don't have a court order
for child support

but he had been paying all of daycare.

I cover all of his other financial...

So that was an agreement that you had
that he would pay for daycare?

[Jessica] Yes.

[Judy] OK.
And he stopped paying in July?

Yes. He's started only paying
half of daycare.

OK. So well, let's go back.
He started paying for half?

[Jessica] Yes.

How much was he supposed
to pay per month?

$560 would... was the full amount
of daycare each month.

OK. And he had been paying that in July
he cut it down to...?

To $270, I believe.

-Eighty.
-Eighty.

OK. So he wasn't completely not paying
he was paying part of it.

-[Jessica] Correct.
-Tell me why you cut the payments in half.

Of course, you have
a counterclaim for that.

Yeah. So, um, in July
we started a custody case

for full custody of our son.

You're talking in July.
Who started the custody case?

I did, Your Honor.

[Judy]
OK. Did you retain a lawyer?

-[Justin] I did.
-[Judy] Is that case still ongoing?

-It is.
-[Judy] Well then,

I'm not entertaining anything
about the daycare

because you have that case in family court

the court there will make a determination
as far as future child support

and whether or not this daycare
should have been paid.

So you have no reason
for not paying the loan?

I was planning on filing bankruptcy.

[Judy] OK, but you didn't...
you didn't file for bankruptcy.

You did the smart thing.
How much is left on the loan?

It's in excess of $12 or $11,000.

What interest rate is on
that loan by the way?

Uh, 36% I believe.

Current balance as of
November, 30th, $12,631.

[Judy] How is the 30% loan
better than her credit cards?

She had some loans in excess of 800%.

[Judy] From whom?

Or over 500%.

Uh, these were online lenders.

Oh, wow. OK.

You have a counterclaim,
harassment, daycare costs is out.

Lost wages 'cause you say you had to take
a day off to file a protective order

and you were fired.

Nonsense. Harassment.

Let's hear it.

And don't go back to anything
that you told the judge

during the hearing that you had
where he dismissed your application

for an Order of Protection.

OK, well, that Order of Protection...

-[Judy] OK.
-[Justin] That...that was...

[Judy] Just shh!

Well, if that's the testimony,
it's already been adjudicated.

A judge using the same measure of proof

that I would use dismissed your case.

So I'm not re-litigating that case.

Judgment for the Plaintiff
in the amount of $10,000.

-Thank you.
-Thank you, Your Honor.

[bailiff]
This court is adjourned.

Well, I believe he was angry that
I started a relationship with somebody.

I think the restraining order
was part of her defense

as to why she didn't want
to pay me back anymore.

I was ready to file bankruptcy
and he had offered to take it out for me.

You know, at the end of the day, um,

the...the loan is still agreed upon
and still needs to be repaid.

I think that that's a good lesson

that you can't use the court systems
and restraining orders

to get out of a loan
that you have really no excuse

for not paying except for
you lost your job.

And I just think it's tricky.

I think that a lot of
defendants come in here

and think that they can just say,

"I didn't have the money
and so I don't have to pay it."

But that's not the case.

It was most interesting to me
is these 800% or 500%

or a 100% interest bearing loans.

-[Sarah] I know, it's something.
-Where did that come from?

It's something I've seen recently
in the past couple years.

It seems like every online
shopping venue now

has some form of loan payment
or loan offering

or "Sign up for our loan program."

And I'd never seen that before.

And if you don't read the fine print,
you could get stuck

in just like the defendant here,
with a lot of those high interest loans.

[Judy] Yeah.

[narrator] Want justice?